Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
7 Questions
18 Plays1 year ago
We explore the complexities behind why employees leave their jobs and offer practical solutions to improve retention through seven essential questions. We begin by discussing the challenges leaders face in predicting employee turnover, supported by insights from recent research. Next, we delve into common reasons people quit, including burnout, poor management, boredom, and lack of belonging.
We discuss the importance of building connections through meaningful conversations and how asking the right questions can reveal critical insights into an employee's state of mind and engagement. Finally, we share our seven essential questions designed to foster open communication, gather valuable feedback, and support employees, ultimately helping to reduce turnover and enhance job satisfaction.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Leadership Dissected
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Leadership Dissected, where we examine the details of leadership, strategy, workplace culture, and decision making through the lens of behavioral science.
00:00:13
Speaker
I'm Dr. D. And I'm Dr. C. With our decades of leadership experience and PhDs in business psychology, we dig into the latest research, trends, practical strategies to help you survive at work without losing
Understanding Employee Turnover
00:00:26
Speaker
your mind.
00:00:26
Speaker
Today, we explore the complexities behind why employees leave their jobs and offer practical solutions to improve retention.
00:00:33
Speaker
We begin by discussing the challenges leaders face in predicting employee turnover, supported by insights from recent research.
00:00:39
Speaker
Next, we delve into common reasons people quit, including burnout, poor management, boredom, and lack of belonging.
00:00:45
Speaker
We discuss the importance of building connections through meaningful conversations and how asking the right questions can reveal critical insights into an employee's state of mind and engagement.
00:00:55
Speaker
Finally, if you wait until the end, we'll share our seven questions.
00:00:59
Speaker
These questions are designed to foster open communication, gather valuable feedback, and support employees, ultimately helping reduce turnover and enhance job satisfaction.
00:01:08
Speaker
So let's cut into this
Challenges with Engagement Surveys
00:01:10
Speaker
topic.
00:01:10
Speaker
Dr. C, let's start with why leaders struggle to predict employee turnover.
00:01:15
Speaker
It's really tough to understand or even identify when an employee might quit.
00:01:20
Speaker
Trying to predict why an employee might quit is a real challenge for leaders.
00:01:24
Speaker
I think there's a lot of unknowns out there, a lack of transparency.
00:01:28
Speaker
Sometimes there's things outside of even an employee's control, like life changes.
00:01:33
Speaker
But often we also hear some undisclosed satisfaction with their workplace.
00:01:38
Speaker
That creates a challenge.
00:01:39
Speaker
A recent McKinsey survey highlights this connection between employers and employees perception of workplace wellbeing.
00:01:45
Speaker
That may indicate that sometimes leaders aren't necessarily fully aware why people are leaving.
00:01:51
Speaker
We've talked about often is how misleading employee engagement surveys are because employee engagement surveys don't necessarily get all of the honest answers.
00:02:01
Speaker
people tend not to answer those surveys as honestly as they can.
00:02:06
Speaker
In my opinion, too many leaders rely on those surveys as the best predictor, even though they're annual.
00:02:13
Speaker
Leaders really are surprised when the behavior or the motivation or their turnover doesn't reflect what they saw in the last employee engagement survey.
00:02:23
Speaker
Totally agree with that.
00:02:24
Speaker
And I think another aspect
00:02:26
Speaker
With employee engagement surveys, it comes a real challenge for leaders to interpret what information, what data they're getting from that.
00:02:33
Speaker
Sometimes employees don't want to be as authentic as they can be when it comes to those surveys, because one, mere retribution.
00:02:39
Speaker
Another aspect is we get all this information.
00:02:41
Speaker
What are people actually doing with it?
00:02:42
Speaker
What actions are being taken by these leaders to create this positive environment or make changes that are meaningful to the employee?
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, engagement surveys are a great starting point.
00:02:53
Speaker
Doesn't always get to the true root of
00:02:56
Speaker
Why people are leaving.
00:02:57
Speaker
What are the challenges that they're encountering?
00:03:00
Speaker
Ultimately, leaders are trying to walk through a cave with a little flashlight, not knowing what direction to go.
00:03:05
Speaker
And they can fall into some pitfalls of assuming if I have positive sentiment on my surveys and the team is fine.
00:03:11
Speaker
The thing that I noticed about surveys, particularly employee engagement surveys, is if the team is okay, I would call it meh.
00:03:19
Speaker
level of engagement, not high, not low.
00:03:21
Speaker
The employees will tend to lean towards more positive responses because they want to believe that other people around them are happier than they are.
00:03:30
Speaker
They tend to be a bit more biased towards positivity in those cases.
00:03:34
Speaker
And I think some of that has to do with trust.
00:03:36
Speaker
I'm not going to score down because that's going to invite too much scrutiny on our team.
00:03:41
Speaker
I'll just lean towards the average between three and four on a five point scale.
00:03:45
Speaker
And that will tend to keep the spotlight off.
00:03:47
Speaker
But when a team is unhappy and they don't care anymore, that's when you see employee engagement surveys rash.
00:03:56
Speaker
And senior leaders can be really surprised by that.
00:03:59
Speaker
If there has been a new leader introduced to the organization, for example,
00:04:03
Speaker
I have seen organizations where the employee engagement survey just tanks and the new leader just doesn't believe it.
00:04:10
Speaker
They want to believe me being here is a good thing for the organization.
00:04:14
Speaker
The fact that it crashed, well, that can't be the things that I'm doing.
00:04:18
Speaker
That can't have anything to do with me.
00:04:20
Speaker
It's because I'm addressing the underlying issues or I'm pulling off the band-aids or whatever stories people can tell to solve the cognitive dissonance, the disconnect between the reality and that part of themselves, their ego that they're trying to protect.
00:04:37
Speaker
The reality is that's terrible because leaders don't take action and they
00:04:42
Speaker
The people that hired leaders into that part of the organization don't want to believe that they brought in somebody that's making things worse.
00:04:48
Speaker
So they don't get as deeply involved as they should.
00:04:51
Speaker
Have you ever seen that, Dr. C?
00:04:53
Speaker
I have, but I'm actually going to take a little bit different take on that.
00:04:56
Speaker
When I have seen survey results drop in different organizations when it comes to engagement, intent to stay, different sentiment, what I find is...
00:05:05
Speaker
Is people who start to score low haven't disconnected.
00:05:08
Speaker
Matter of fact, I think they're more connected because they're feeling more comfortable voicing their concern, voicing what's going on.
00:05:15
Speaker
My worry tends to be silent group.
00:05:17
Speaker
The people who are responding with mid-level responses, your threes on a five point scale.
00:05:23
Speaker
guys are trying to stay under the radar.
00:05:24
Speaker
Now, what I often see when it comes to engagement surveys, people will hyper focus on the low responses and try to find solutions for the low response.
00:05:33
Speaker
But neglect looking at what is working right.
00:05:36
Speaker
What are we doing to make sure that not everyone moves into that low response, but what are we doing to maintain people's positive sentiment?
00:05:42
Speaker
And I think with every survey, you also have
00:05:45
Speaker
a bit of a difference in responses based on tenure.
00:05:49
Speaker
People who start off in an organization don't automatically give a low response.
00:05:53
Speaker
So for teams who have mixed groups, some of the challenges may be mastering those surveys because you have high responses, you have a couple of low responses that now averages out to you're doing okay, middle response.
00:06:05
Speaker
And I think for leaders having this skillset of yes, looking at the data, looking at information that you're getting from your surveys, but also formulating a plan.
00:06:14
Speaker
formulating an action to get at the root of what's going on with your team.
00:06:18
Speaker
You mentioned earlier how often these surveys go out.
00:06:21
Speaker
Some organizations very much do it on an annual basis.
00:06:24
Speaker
Some organizations do it quarterly.
00:06:26
Speaker
One organization I've heard of, actually, as you're walking out the door, there's a little panel that says, how was your day today?
00:06:32
Speaker
And that's an immediate feedback.
00:06:33
Speaker
So getting more data points is important.
00:06:35
Speaker
It's going to give you a richer picture.
00:06:36
Speaker
But where I think leaders fail, and I'm using the word fail very
00:06:41
Speaker
very deliberately here is that they don't take action.
00:06:44
Speaker
They look at the data and say, we're good, or let me get someone else to deal with.
00:06:48
Speaker
First, I'll say, I agree with you on the silent middle.
00:06:52
Speaker
That's a very dangerous place.
00:06:54
Speaker
From my perspective, the challenge with an employee engagement survey is not the survey.
00:06:59
Speaker
It's that all of these different interpretations that we have or different variations on how you can interpret that data.
00:07:06
Speaker
If your data is a surprise to you, you've missed the point.
00:07:09
Speaker
you have missed out on many other conversations that you could have that will give insight into people's thought processes and people's behavior.
00:07:21
Speaker
Oftentimes, you don't understand means that you're not having those conversations.
00:07:26
Speaker
And those conversations are really important in building that level of
00:07:31
Speaker
teamwork and camaraderie and insight with your team or with your boss or whomever, those conversations are the thing that are missing.
00:07:38
Speaker
If you wait until the survey and you see your scores tanked or they're kind of middling because people have apathy, that's death.
00:07:47
Speaker
That is the thing that's going to really kill an organization.
Reasons for Leaving a Job
00:07:50
Speaker
So we really have to understand how to engage with people more proactively, authentically, and ask the right questions.
00:07:58
Speaker
Now, I think there's a really good set of questions that people can use that will help, one, build connection, and two, help understand what the state of mind your team is in.
00:08:07
Speaker
But let's talk about briefly, Dr. C, why do people quit?
00:08:11
Speaker
If it's too late for the survey or you don't have your finger on the pulse of your team, people will start leaving.
00:08:17
Speaker
So what are some of those reasons?
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think the most obvious reason that people jump to is better opportunity.
00:08:24
Speaker
Person's found a new organization, someone who's willing to give them that 20% raise, someone who's willing to increase the benefits.
00:08:31
Speaker
Maybe there's something about this new organization that is more attractive to them.
00:08:35
Speaker
It looks like the phrase,
00:08:36
Speaker
Grass is always greener on the other side.
00:08:38
Speaker
I always find that interesting with a lot of organizations.
00:08:41
Speaker
They're willing to let team members who have tenure, who have experience, who know how to do the work, walk away over a change in compensation.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yet when they need to replace that person, they're essentially giving that increased compensation to the new person because that's now the market.
00:08:55
Speaker
Now, I know we can't just give people raises every time they threaten to leave.
00:08:59
Speaker
That's just going to create an environment where people are going to solely focus on money to not really look at what they're getting from an organization.
00:09:07
Speaker
That is the most common rationale.
00:09:10
Speaker
Organizations and leaders give why a person leaves.
00:09:14
Speaker
They're less likely to look at, we have the right environment for people to thrive.
00:09:18
Speaker
Are we building opportunities for people to grow?
00:09:21
Speaker
Which also is another reason why people leave.
00:09:23
Speaker
They want to.
00:09:24
Speaker
growing an organization.
00:09:26
Speaker
You want development opportunities, especially if you're looking at employees that are younger, that are not as tenured or in different stages of their career.
00:09:33
Speaker
They're looking for the next opportunity to grow.
00:09:35
Speaker
A lot of times team members will look at that opportunity as you need to grow vertically.
00:09:39
Speaker
A lot of organizations, if they don't have that vertical growth,
00:09:42
Speaker
Don't do a lot of investment in just developing people because there's that fear that if I develop someone, if I build someone up, if I invest in them to be able to do more, they're going to leave.
00:09:52
Speaker
And Richard Branson has this great quote where you train your people so they have the skills to leave, but you treat them in a way that they want to stay.
00:10:00
Speaker
That's a great quote.
00:10:02
Speaker
And I think about the phrase, I'm leaving for a better opportunity.
00:10:06
Speaker
I feel like that's the same way that people say, what's my success or what's my failure?
00:10:11
Speaker
Well, what's my success or where are my opportunities?
00:10:13
Speaker
I think people use the term better opportunities to kind of soften and put a professional face on, I'm unhappy with this thing over here, therefore I started looking.
00:10:24
Speaker
And I think better opportunities is better described as a missed opportunity for the organization.
00:10:30
Speaker
What was that better opportunity?
00:10:32
Speaker
What was that unmet need?
00:10:33
Speaker
That unmet need is why they left.
00:10:35
Speaker
And why couldn't the organization that they're at or the role that they're in satisfy that need?
00:10:41
Speaker
It's almost like with personal relationship.
00:10:43
Speaker
Not you, it's me.
00:10:45
Speaker
Right.
00:10:45
Speaker
But the reality is a little bit me, but it's also you.
00:10:49
Speaker
And a lot of organizations aren't ready to hear that.
00:10:51
Speaker
They aren't ready to hear.
00:10:52
Speaker
We have inadequately trained leaders to really take care of team members, to really help guide and help grow people.
00:10:59
Speaker
Another factor is what kind of culture do we have as an organization?
00:11:03
Speaker
Is it one that allows people to be their authentic selves, allows people to grow?
00:11:07
Speaker
There's a big focus on just getting things done.
00:11:09
Speaker
Not really team members being successful.
00:11:11
Speaker
And that fosters a
00:11:13
Speaker
really bad environment for people.
00:11:14
Speaker
One of the big reasons why people leave organizations is also burnout.
00:11:18
Speaker
And burnout really is the result of not just their workload and stress, the environment and an inability to actually get the support that a person needs.
00:11:27
Speaker
More so support from their teams, support from leadership.
00:11:31
Speaker
And when I say leadership, not just referring to a person's manager or supervisor.
00:11:35
Speaker
You got to go up the ladder to really see what kind of leadership support is being cascaded down.
00:11:40
Speaker
In addition to that,
00:11:41
Speaker
and awareness by leaders of what kind of risk organization is really at to create this environment where more and more people are being burned out absolutely and you touched on culture and culture is a big amorphous thing about an organization there is an organizational culture there are team cultures if your team is in multiple locations there is a location culture culture is so complicated of an idea i like to use the idea of atmosphere that's created
00:12:08
Speaker
around a person.
00:12:09
Speaker
So if you think about culture as the big thing, that's the intention or the actual experience.
00:12:14
Speaker
Climate is how people feel the culture.
00:12:17
Speaker
Your cultural climate is what you can measure.
The Role of Culture in Retention
00:12:20
Speaker
And when you ask somebody, what's the culture like?
00:12:22
Speaker
What they're really telling you is what's the climate, the atmosphere, the local weather is what that person experiences from day to day, meeting to meeting, person to person.
00:12:32
Speaker
The atmosphere around a person can change when they
00:12:36
Speaker
interact with one person versus when they interact with another.
00:12:39
Speaker
It might be stormy weather when they're going through a big organizational change that overlies everything else.
00:12:46
Speaker
So that is like walking into fog.
00:12:48
Speaker
I like to think about the atmosphere that's created around a person and
00:12:52
Speaker
Most organizations focus very heavily on culture, but they don't focus enough on atmosphere.
00:12:58
Speaker
And understanding the atmosphere around a team or around a person can really help give insight into what's their state of mind, what's their risk in leaving, or something changed that went from sunny to rainy.
00:13:10
Speaker
The culture component is so important, but it feels like something that people can't influence.
00:13:15
Speaker
But if you think about it in terms of atmosphere around a person, it suddenly becomes something that can be talked about and measured.
00:13:22
Speaker
When you use the phrase atmosphere, they tend to be very visual when it comes to some of these phrases.
00:13:26
Speaker
I also think of atmosphere is how light or how heavy this atmosphere is.
00:13:30
Speaker
If it's too light, you can't breathe because you don't have the resources, the things that you need to survive.
00:13:35
Speaker
You're up on the mountain top.
00:13:35
Speaker
If it's too heavy, you're on the mountain top and you know, you have no oxygen tank.
00:13:39
Speaker
The other side of it, the atmosphere is too heavy, becomes crushing and either one creates challenges.
00:13:45
Speaker
For people to perform, feel connected to their work, let alone still navigate the environment, still navigate what it means to be an employee.
00:13:53
Speaker
When it's too heavy, it's like a hurricane.
00:13:55
Speaker
You know it's coming.
00:13:56
Speaker
You shelter in place.
00:13:58
Speaker
You're making plans.
00:13:59
Speaker
You're super tense.
00:14:01
Speaker
The lightness and heaviness of it is a great visual metaphor for this idea.
00:14:05
Speaker
Another reason that people sometimes leave is not feeling like they belong within an organization, not feeling like they're not really connected with the people that they work with or the work that they're doing.
00:14:16
Speaker
They can lose track of their purpose.
00:14:19
Speaker
That purpose doesn't keep them connected with the work that they're doing.
00:14:22
Speaker
And so they don't feel like they belong.
00:14:24
Speaker
They don't feel like they fit in or they don't feel like what they're doing is actually connected.
00:14:29
Speaker
worth their time, but they need the money, they're not really connecting with the bigger picture of what they're trying to accomplish.
00:14:36
Speaker
This also is tightly associated with a sense of belonging.
00:14:39
Speaker
By belonging, you feel like I'm doing something of value within the organization that is bringing purpose bigger than myself, and I'm doing it with people who share that purpose.
00:14:51
Speaker
And I think belonging is something that a lot of times we don't have strong conversations about in the workplace.
00:14:57
Speaker
Sometimes there's a misinterpretation of what belonging really means.
00:15:01
Speaker
Belonging refers to a sense of being connected or attached to a social group, community, a place, an institution.
00:15:07
Speaker
It encompasses all the feelings of acceptance, inclusion, and identity within that group.
00:15:13
Speaker
So belonging is fundamental because it plays a significant role in shaping our own self-perception, shaping our behaviors and really our overall well-being.
00:15:21
Speaker
So feeling like you don't belong in an organization can drive people away.
00:15:27
Speaker
People want to feel like they can be their authentic self.
00:15:29
Speaker
People want to form relationships with other people.
00:15:32
Speaker
We often forget we're social creatures.
00:15:34
Speaker
We want to connect with other people.
00:15:36
Speaker
And often we have interdependencies when it comes to the work that we do.
00:15:40
Speaker
There's sort of a dynamic.
00:15:42
Speaker
with how work is structured now.
00:15:44
Speaker
Things tend to be in silos.
00:15:46
Speaker
You have your specific task, your specific area.
00:15:48
Speaker
That's your focus.
00:15:49
Speaker
That ignores that interdependency.
00:15:51
Speaker
My task isn't done.
00:15:52
Speaker
It impacts someone else.
00:15:54
Speaker
Someone else's task isn't done.
00:15:55
Speaker
It impacts me.
00:15:56
Speaker
Where belonging comes in is I have a connection with this person because we're all working towards a common goal.
00:16:01
Speaker
I can have a genuine conversation with this person.
00:16:03
Speaker
In addition to that, people want to feel included.
00:16:06
Speaker
People want to
00:16:06
Speaker
Feel that whatever self they bring is accepted by the people around them, accepted by the organization.
00:16:12
Speaker
Some organizations struggle creating this atmosphere of acceptance, this atmosphere where a person can be their authentic self.
00:16:17
Speaker
I often tell leaders to pause and remember that working with another human being, people have these social needs.
00:16:23
Speaker
People have this need to belong.
00:16:25
Speaker
In addition to that, being able to connect to the work that we're doing, having purpose.
00:16:28
Speaker
If you lose your purpose, or as I like to say, if you lose your heart in the work that you're doing, people often start disconnect.
00:16:34
Speaker
There's a lot of different social components that are often forgotten, often overlooked.
00:16:39
Speaker
It drives a person to leave an organization.
00:16:41
Speaker
This gets to one of the ideas that I think
00:16:44
Speaker
I think it's a really big reason why people leave.
00:16:46
Speaker
It's been a reason why I've left organizations.
00:16:49
Speaker
And that's one of broken promises.
00:16:51
Speaker
Unfulfilled commitments that erode trust and seek cause employees to take action by leaving an organization.
00:16:57
Speaker
They've said, this is what I need to be here.
00:16:59
Speaker
The organization did not respond.
00:17:02
Speaker
Building trust and maintaining trust is fundamental.
00:17:04
Speaker
And that means that in the conversations that you have in between engagement surveys,
00:17:09
Speaker
You're keeping a good running tally of the things that are important to each person, why they're important, and what you're going to do about it, and when you're going to follow up so that you can really show, I'm here for you.
Psychological Safety and Work-Life Balance
00:17:21
Speaker
I've heard what you said.
00:17:22
Speaker
I've looked into it.
00:17:23
Speaker
We've either got a solution or this is something we're not going to be able to solve.
00:17:27
Speaker
Can we collaborate on an alternative?
00:17:29
Speaker
That level of follow-up and that level of trust builds what we call in social science, psychological safety.
00:17:35
Speaker
And that psychological safety is
00:17:37
Speaker
is allowing people to bring up the issues, concerns, fears, worries, successes, whatever it is that's on their mind in a judgment-free zone.
00:17:46
Speaker
And I think this concept of broken promises, when a team member is being brought on, we have work-life balance.
00:17:52
Speaker
We want to make sure that you have the time that you need to take care of what's important outside of work.
00:17:57
Speaker
Great words.
00:17:58
Speaker
Behaviors don't match.
00:17:59
Speaker
When people have emails coming in after hours, you're getting those calls after hours.
00:18:06
Speaker
Worst I've seen is people will text or call people's personal cell phone numbers or telephone numbers when they're on vacation on PTO.
00:18:12
Speaker
And that's a broken promise from the organization that we're going to honor and respect your space.
00:18:17
Speaker
We're going to honor and respect that you've committed to us during this, from this time to this time.
00:18:21
Speaker
And we're going to honor that commitment.
00:18:22
Speaker
That promise is broken.
00:18:23
Speaker
On the flip side, whenever a leader brings on a new person, often during that interview, there's some promises.
00:18:28
Speaker
There's promises that are made about commitment of work, commitment of accountability.
00:18:32
Speaker
Team members break those promises too.
00:18:34
Speaker
We start to have these poor behaviors, and it may not necessarily be their performance is a poor behavior.
00:18:39
Speaker
They may not be aligning with a lot of the social norms of the organization.
00:18:43
Speaker
creating an environment that becomes more challenging for the leaders to lead.
00:18:47
Speaker
Making the atmosphere better, they are making the atmosphere worse.
00:18:50
Speaker
They're that little gray cloud that is flying around everywhere, or they're that storm that's just coming down, lightning and fury, creating an environment where the atmosphere
00:19:00
Speaker
Let's get heavier.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:01
Speaker
And I look, everybody's human.
00:19:03
Speaker
We all bring negative atmosphere or positive atmosphere, depending on our own personal mood from time to time.
00:19:08
Speaker
Those types of promises are also being forgiving when people have a bad day and giving the space and understanding.
00:19:16
Speaker
But all of that comes from building a deeper level relationship with somebody.
00:19:20
Speaker
and understanding the way that they tick.
00:19:22
Speaker
So many leaders and so many team members don't build enough connection with the people on their team or the teams around them.
00:19:31
Speaker
Leaders don't invest enough time in trying to get to know people at the front lines or multiple levels down in their organization structurally, hierarchically.
00:19:41
Speaker
So that becomes a challenge.
00:19:43
Speaker
connections do foster these positive relationships.
00:19:46
Speaker
It really does create this environment for people to be more transparent, more honest about what they need and what's going well and what's going wrong.
00:19:55
Speaker
We put a lot of pressure on leaders to make the connections, but we also need team members to connect.
00:20:00
Speaker
It needs to be a two-way conversation.
00:20:02
Speaker
It can't be, and I think power dynamics make it either challenging or make it seem like it's not possible.
00:20:08
Speaker
Sometimes that can be intimidating and team members to actually ask their leader, how are you today?
00:20:12
Speaker
Fostering these relationships, fostering these connections creates this open communication, which in turn can prevent turnover.
00:20:19
Speaker
Because if you have a strong relationship with your leader, you're going to be more transparent about, hey, this isn't working for me right now.
00:20:25
Speaker
I'm thinking about looking for new opportunities.
00:20:27
Speaker
Here's what I'm looking for.
00:20:28
Speaker
That then creates an opportunity for the leader or the organization.
00:20:32
Speaker
Take a look and say, hey, can we actually fulfill this to keep you?
00:20:35
Speaker
Because often team members
00:20:37
Speaker
leaders organizations don't always think about it how expensive not just financially truly socially how expensive how taxing it is to see team members leave have to look for someone to fill that role what you often see with organizations if one key person leaves people are going to start questioning is it time for me to go to something's wrong it's not just an opportunity what's created this atmosphere that it's time to go in terms of the broken promises you brought up work-life balance which will be a whole other topic but another broken promise
00:21:05
Speaker
on that is giving employees time off and saying you can take time off, then not creating an environment where employees can take that time off or feel empowered or safe to take that time off.
00:21:19
Speaker
I might use an example where an employee has over 200 days of PTO sitting on the books and never takes time off.
00:21:26
Speaker
Why isn't the organization looking at that and saying this is a risk?
00:21:30
Speaker
Now that employee might not give an
00:21:31
Speaker
indication that they're going to leave, but that's an indication of burnout.
00:21:35
Speaker
That's an indication that that employee is taking on too much and not taking enough time off.
00:21:40
Speaker
There should be a leadership intervention.
00:21:42
Speaker
You need to take a week off and we need to create an environment around you where you can take a week off this month and take another week or two off in the next couple of months.
00:21:51
Speaker
That is a broken promise.
00:21:53
Speaker
And it's a broken promise that most organizations don't follow up on.
00:21:57
Speaker
They don't look at their PTO balances and say, this is a risk.
00:22:00
Speaker
This employee is at risk.
00:22:02
Speaker
What are we going to do about it?
00:22:03
Speaker
How are we going to make sure that our environment that promotes work-life balance
00:22:08
Speaker
is actually ensuring that our employees are taking their time off.
00:22:13
Speaker
Conversely, employees also look down on employees that have a zero PTO balance.
00:22:18
Speaker
When employees take their PTO a day off every couple of weeks because they've accrued a day and they're spending it right away, man, you're always on vacation.
00:22:26
Speaker
Why are you always gone?
00:22:27
Speaker
This doesn't seem very productive.
00:22:29
Speaker
That's also a broken promise.
00:22:31
Speaker
So PTO always apples me in the way that it's structured.
00:22:34
Speaker
It's very much like grade school where you have to ask for permission to go to the bathroom.
00:22:39
Speaker
You have to ask for permission to take time to recharge.
00:22:42
Speaker
And I think a lot of organizations create this sense that if you take time off, you're not contributing, you're not paying.
00:22:48
Speaker
And this is reinforced by team members and going, well, this person's always out.
00:22:53
Speaker
This person's not bringing, not completing their tasks because they're always out.
00:22:57
Speaker
I always have to call, have to cover for them.
00:22:59
Speaker
That creates that atmosphere of, can people take care of themselves?
00:23:02
Speaker
And that does become a broken promise.
00:23:04
Speaker
And I often see leaders also very guilty and not taking the time off, not allowing them to have that recharge time.
00:23:10
Speaker
And I think people are very,
00:23:11
Speaker
Forget this is part of your benefits.
00:23:12
Speaker
This is part of your compensation to actually take time off.
00:23:16
Speaker
So it's important that we're creating space where people don't feel like I need to justify me taking a day off.
00:23:22
Speaker
Rather creating this environment where leaders are encouraging people, hey, and make this part of the norm for an organization.
00:23:29
Speaker
What's the norm for a team?
00:23:31
Speaker
Because yes, there is interdependence.
00:23:32
Speaker
When a person leaves, sometimes tasks are going to be distributed.
00:23:35
Speaker
The team members also have to realize when they're on time off, their work is being distributed too.
00:23:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:39
Speaker
Many organizations as their culture say that work-life balance and a family environment is something that they strive when your PTO balance in aggregate is a reflection of your culture.
00:23:52
Speaker
If your PTO balances for leaders or teams are too high, then that means that your actual culture is drive until burnout, not work-life balance.
00:24:04
Speaker
And so
00:24:04
Speaker
We started this about saying broken promises.
00:24:07
Speaker
The broken promise is that you said our culture is one of work-life balance, but our culture is really drive until burnout.
00:24:15
Speaker
Don't take time off, or we are not going to build this infrastructure processes so that you can take time off.
00:24:22
Speaker
And that is a broken promise.
00:24:24
Speaker
That really does come from not just the leaders reinforcing the behavior, but team members reinforcing it too.
00:24:30
Speaker
This idea of work being a family, a little challenging to say that every environment is a family.
00:24:36
Speaker
If that were the case, we would have to accept every bad behavior.
00:24:40
Speaker
We would have to accept every efficiency.
00:24:42
Speaker
And when it comes to the culture you create, atmosphere you create, that's fine by the worst behavior.
00:24:49
Speaker
you tolerate.
00:24:49
Speaker
Worst behavior, the team tolerate.
00:24:51
Speaker
So as leaders, we have to take a step back and say, well, if we're breaking these promises, that's a tolerated behavior.
00:24:57
Speaker
And we can't be surprised when people leave because of those broken promises.
00:25:01
Speaker
Almost everything comes back to
00:25:04
Speaker
how we communicate, when we communicate, and what we communicate.
00:25:07
Speaker
And if we really want to talk about shifting a culture to create the environment where we can first identify if somebody is at risk of leaving, second, try to prevent them from leaving, then what we have to do is employ communication strategies.
00:25:22
Speaker
We started this conversation talking about a data collection point.
00:25:27
Speaker
employee engagement.
00:25:28
Speaker
And it is a really good indicator of turnover, but it is a lagging indicator of turnover for two reasons.
00:25:33
Speaker
One, all the people that left don't usually complete your employee engagement survey.
00:25:37
Speaker
The people that have decided this environment wasn't for them any longer, they're not reflected in your employee engagement survey.
00:25:44
Speaker
Second, there are lots of reasons why employees don't give
00:25:47
Speaker
truthful answers in the employee engagement survey.
00:25:49
Speaker
The solution is you have to talk to people in your organization as people authentically and ask the right questions to understand what's their headspace.
00:25:59
Speaker
What do they need?
00:26:00
Speaker
Do they feel supported?
00:26:01
Speaker
Do they have a sense of purpose within the organization?
00:26:04
Speaker
There's so many opportunities for somebody to have a conversation
00:26:09
Speaker
authentically, but they don't.
00:26:11
Speaker
Every time they sit down with the employee, it's about a project or something that needs to happen or something that didn't happen.
00:26:16
Speaker
But building that level of trust in communication is not something that's necessarily built into the culture, at least not at every level.
00:26:25
Speaker
The challenge for leaders is knowing the right questions to ask.
00:26:28
Speaker
So that addresses the importance of doing stay interviews.
00:26:33
Speaker
Now, what a stay interview is, is having a conversation, almost like an exit interview.
00:26:37
Speaker
But instead of asking a person why they're leaving, what can we do to make sure that you stay?
00:26:41
Speaker
What can we do to create this environment, this atmosphere?
00:26:45
Speaker
Or what resources, what opportunities, what support does a person need to actually stay with the organization?
00:26:50
Speaker
Now, we can talk about exit interviews a little bit.
00:26:52
Speaker
Exit interviews are lagging, indicator of why a person left.
00:26:56
Speaker
A person who's leaving actually completes an exit interview.
00:27:00
Speaker
That information isn't as actionable.
00:27:02
Speaker
Being able to ask these questions before a person leaves helps give leaders, helps team members identify what is it that they need?
00:27:10
Speaker
What is it that's fulfilling here at current employment?
00:27:13
Speaker
It's keeping them there.
00:27:13
Speaker
Now, in my work, I've often asked people, what keeps you here?
00:27:16
Speaker
You will get some people who say, well, the pays, the benefits, the flexibility of my schedule, I got to keep it because I have important things in my life, which are people often say have a connection to the work that they're doing, have a connection to their team members.
00:27:28
Speaker
So they stay not because there's increased benefits, not because they're getting all these opportunities to grow, but they're staying because they have purpose, have purpose in their work.
00:27:39
Speaker
Whether it's the people they're serving, the work that they're doing, or the people around them.
00:27:43
Speaker
Stay interviews gives an opportunity for leaders to be proactive as opposed to react when a person leaves an organization.
Proactive Measures and Stay Interviews
00:27:50
Speaker
Stay interviews are a really powerful approach to understanding and collecting data in a semi-formal way, using those to build connection.
00:27:59
Speaker
Now, they only work if you actually take the feedback provided and do something about it.
00:28:04
Speaker
and take action, I'm going to take this idea of the stay interview one step further.
00:28:09
Speaker
I believe a stay interview is a program.
00:28:12
Speaker
That is something probably created by HR and leaders are taught on how to do them or HR does them.
00:28:18
Speaker
And it's disconnected from the hierarchy that the employee who is experiencing the stay interview is part of.
00:28:25
Speaker
I'll take it one step further.
00:28:26
Speaker
If you want to make it part of your culture and not just a program, then every opportunity that you talk to somebody,
00:28:32
Speaker
is the opportunity for a stay in a leader with complete authenticity, asking some of the tougher questions that feel a little invasive, a little uncomfortable that you might not want to hear the answer to.
00:28:44
Speaker
But if you do them enough and you do them so that they're part of your culture and that they're expected, people will very quickly become comfortable with answering these, what seem like very tough questions to ask and very tough questions to hear the answer to.
00:28:59
Speaker
Also in the culture, it has to be actionable.
00:29:02
Speaker
have these conversations as part of one-on-ones, team meetings, informal conversations, should be able to ask these questions feeling like I can take action on this, I can have conversations about this and do something about it.
00:29:18
Speaker
The idea of the stay interview is a spectacular one.
00:29:22
Speaker
Taking it even further and integrating it as part of your culture, that's magic.
00:29:26
Speaker
I think for leaders, there's a couple of skills you need to make sure to develop.
00:29:30
Speaker
You got to be willing to listen.
00:29:31
Speaker
If you're unable or unwilling to listen for the sake of listening, it's going to be really challenging to actually have these authentic conversations.
00:29:39
Speaker
Listening is one of those skills that everyone is expected to know how to do, but we're never taught how to truly listen.
00:29:45
Speaker
We're never taught to take a step back because often when we're listening, we're listening to respond, listening to give an answer.
00:29:52
Speaker
So a lot of times we're sitting there hearing words trying to formulate, how am I going to respond to this?
00:29:57
Speaker
What am I going to tell this person?
00:29:58
Speaker
As opposed to being in the uncomfortable space of, I don't have an answer.
00:30:03
Speaker
I need to think about it.
00:30:04
Speaker
This is not a visceral response that I can give you.
00:30:07
Speaker
It's not something that I can just pull out of the sky.
00:30:10
Speaker
Because what that ends up doing is go back to broken promises.
00:30:13
Speaker
So it's really important that we really strengthen this ability to listen, but also be empathetic of the situation for each of our team members.
00:30:20
Speaker
We don't have empathy.
00:30:21
Speaker
It makes it that much more difficult to connect with our team members, not just as a leader, but as a human being.
00:30:26
Speaker
These connections are how we get to the root of challenges, to the barriers people are facing, but also the opportunities to foster stronger relationships, to foster more connections.
00:30:36
Speaker
and build better understanding of why people stay, why people leave.
00:30:40
Speaker
Another challenge for leaders, actually knowing what questions to ask can be a little awkward in a one-on-one, not knowing what to ask a person.
00:30:48
Speaker
So really there are seven core questions that Dr. D and I believe every leader should be asking their team members.
00:30:54
Speaker
These seven questions are designed to build engagement, gather insights and identify potential issues.
00:31:00
Speaker
They can be used during one-on-ones or any conversation to support an employee or team members can have these conversations to support each other.
00:31:07
Speaker
So Dr. D, let's talk about these seven questions.
00:31:10
Speaker
So first question on the list, do you feel your work has purpose?
00:31:13
Speaker
Now for team members, you want to have meaningful work.
00:31:16
Speaker
I think generationally look at the research, younger generations want to make sure that they're connected, that their work has purpose.
00:31:22
Speaker
A lot of times we'll say, is there a why behind the tasks that they're doing?
00:31:26
Speaker
Is there a why behind the contribution?
00:31:28
Speaker
So being able to ask team members, you feel your work has purpose gives insight on if they're connecting to the work.
00:31:34
Speaker
What it also does is it gives leaders insight on if team members understand why we're making a change, why we're doing certain tasks, why we're doing any type of work.
00:31:42
Speaker
We talked about purpose.
00:31:44
Speaker
We also talked about how important it is to have a sense of belonging in your organization.
00:31:49
Speaker
It's connected to your purpose, but it's also connected to your team.
00:31:52
Speaker
So the next question is, do you feel like you belong?
00:31:56
Speaker
My parents' generation felt like they belonged to an organization and would spend their entire life
00:32:02
Speaker
That was a big part of their identity.
00:32:03
Speaker
Now, we talked about younger generations, those that are coming up through the workforce now, that sense of belonging, that sense of identity with your team, with representation, with inclusion, that sense of belonging covers a lot of aspects of the work life.
00:32:19
Speaker
So we think that's a very important part of understanding what will keep someone with the organization and where they might be at risk of leaving.
00:32:27
Speaker
Another question we often ask is, do you trust people you work with?
00:32:31
Speaker
Now that can feel like a loaded question, but it's very important that we assess a person has trust in their team, trust in their leaders, trust in the organization.
00:32:41
Speaker
Because we know if a person doesn't feel like they trust the people that they're working with, more often than not, they're going to look for a different environment where they do feel they trust someone.
00:32:50
Speaker
And that's going to create opportunities or create an atmosphere for people to leave.
00:32:55
Speaker
Don't know about you, Dr. D, but I don't trust people around me.
00:32:59
Speaker
It's going to be really tough for me to work.
00:33:00
Speaker
Trust is an important one.
00:33:01
Speaker
It might not be all the people.
00:33:03
Speaker
It might be somebody.
00:33:04
Speaker
It's a good indicator of a individual relationship that you need to work on or a misunderstanding.
00:33:10
Speaker
Trust is something that ebbs and flows within people, within teams and something you have to work on.
00:33:17
Speaker
So another question that we often need to ask that really an unspoken question, do you have enough resources?
00:33:23
Speaker
You have the resources that you need.
00:33:24
Speaker
These resources can come in a lot of different forms.
00:33:27
Speaker
It can be physical resources like you have the right chair, you have the right number of monitors, you have the right supplies, you have your red stapler, or it can also be time.
00:33:37
Speaker
Time is a resource.
00:33:38
Speaker
Often we neglect to think that time is a resource that we can only allocate so much time.
00:33:43
Speaker
throughout the day.
00:33:44
Speaker
Another resource that people often forget is support, collaboration, your colleagues.
00:33:48
Speaker
That is a resource that we're asking for other people.
00:33:51
Speaker
Finally, knowledge.
00:33:51
Speaker
They have the information, the training, support they need to be able to be successful.
00:33:56
Speaker
This is one of my favorite questions because it opens up the opportunity for
00:34:01
Speaker
taking direct action.
00:34:03
Speaker
When you start asking questions like these, people will think in the physical space, oh, I need an extra monitor.
00:34:07
Speaker
I need a new mouse.
00:34:08
Speaker
But as you develop trust and as you develop your experience and that authenticity that somebody will say, man, I'm feeling really burned out.
00:34:15
Speaker
I need some time off.
00:34:16
Speaker
Or I just don't have the mental capacity to support this change that we're going through in the organization.
00:34:22
Speaker
It's such an important question that runs the range from easy and something that you can take action on and solve very quickly to
00:34:29
Speaker
and giving somebody permission to raise their hand and say something really small, like I need a new mouse.
00:34:34
Speaker
It gives you the opportunity to respond quickly and get them what they need.
00:34:38
Speaker
So the next question, and this one's a little bit different from what people are used to, and it's very simple.
00:34:44
Speaker
Asking a person, are you happy?
00:34:46
Speaker
Overall happiness is
00:34:47
Speaker
is a strong indicator of job satisfaction, of engagement.
00:34:50
Speaker
Sometimes people aren't really sure if they're happy or not.
00:34:52
Speaker
So it's one of these questions.
00:34:54
Speaker
I like to say it's a scary question because sometimes people don't want to either hear the answer or a person being asked the question actually has to be introspective of, am I actually happy?
00:35:04
Speaker
A good indicator of how happy you are at your workplace is how you feel on Sunday night or the night before you have to go to work.
00:35:10
Speaker
You're dreading it.
00:35:11
Speaker
You feel like you don't want to go in.
00:35:14
Speaker
I wonder how many sick days I have left.
00:35:16
Speaker
Can there be a natural disaster that will keep me from having to go into work tomorrow?
00:35:20
Speaker
Probably indication that person's not happy.
00:35:22
Speaker
But if a person feels fulfilled, a person feels like the work that they're doing is filling their cup, in general, you're going to see a little bit more happiness.
00:35:29
Speaker
It's rarely metric.
00:35:30
Speaker
It's rarely asked.
00:35:31
Speaker
It's something that can truly tell you a person wants to stay.
00:35:35
Speaker
I also think this question is really powerful in how somebody answers.
00:35:40
Speaker
also tells you answers to other questions in the other previously asked questions.
00:35:46
Speaker
Do they have enough trust in you to answer that question and be honest and say, I'm not feeling very happy or just give you a curt, yeah, I'm fine.
00:35:53
Speaker
How they answer is just as important as what they answer.
00:35:57
Speaker
And it's a great indicator of previous questions.
00:36:00
Speaker
I think the scarier question beyond are you happy because it becomes actionable and it displays the sense of trust is the next question.
00:36:09
Speaker
What would make you happier here?
00:36:10
Speaker
Whether they're happy or unhappy, that question has relevance and directly asking for feedback provides actionable insights and opens up a dialogue, opens up a conversation about where's their headspace?
00:36:23
Speaker
What is it that they need?
00:36:24
Speaker
It gives them the opportunity to really share.
00:36:27
Speaker
I think asking this question, what would make you happier also opens it up, not just to the leader, but to team members to think about what will make me happier.
00:36:35
Speaker
It may be, hey, on Fridays, can we just have afternoons, no meetings?
00:36:39
Speaker
That would make me happier because I can then transition to my weekend.
00:36:42
Speaker
As you mentioned, Dr. D, to create some actionable items for leaders, but also for team members.
00:36:47
Speaker
There's an onus to team members for themselves, for the people around them to help shape environment where they can thrive, where they can feel happy.
00:36:55
Speaker
So it doesn't just solely fall on the leader.
00:36:57
Speaker
It's also partially owned by the team member.
00:37:00
Speaker
Like a team member could say, well, I'll be happier if I lose 10 pounds.
00:37:03
Speaker
Three, as a leader, I can support you by encouraging you.
00:37:06
Speaker
And I'm not going to be the one taking you to the gym.
00:37:08
Speaker
Hey, did you know we have discounts at the EAP program?
00:37:11
Speaker
It does give you some actionable opportunities.
00:37:13
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:37:14
Speaker
It gives actionable opportunities, but it still puts an onus on the person.
00:37:17
Speaker
So we control our own happiness.
00:37:19
Speaker
We control our emotion.
00:37:20
Speaker
We control outcomes of those emotions.
00:37:22
Speaker
So really, this question is not just for the leader to ask, for yourself to ask, what would make me happier?
00:37:27
Speaker
What would make me happier in this environment?
00:37:29
Speaker
And finally, for leaders, simple question of how can I help or what can I do to support you?
00:37:34
Speaker
Pretty often leaders will ask like, oh, where do you need help?
00:37:37
Speaker
What do you need?
00:37:38
Speaker
It's important for leaders to ask this question.
00:37:40
Speaker
It's more important to do the follow-up because this helps build rapport.
00:37:43
Speaker
This builds trust and it reduces the risk of broken promises.
00:37:47
Speaker
And given the previous question, what could make you happier here?
00:37:51
Speaker
This question gives the person that you're talking to the opportunity to say, well, actually, I don't need your help with that.
00:37:58
Speaker
I'm just glad that you asked, and I'm glad that you are getting to know me better.
00:38:02
Speaker
Is there some action that they could specifically take based on the request?
00:38:06
Speaker
These seven questions, there's some real psychology behind them.
00:38:09
Speaker
We start with the first question, do you feel your work has purpose, which talks really generally about work.
00:38:15
Speaker
Do you feel like you belong?
00:38:17
Speaker
How do you fit into the organization?
00:38:18
Speaker
Do you trust the people you work with?
00:38:21
Speaker
Building on that belonging, trust is an important component of that.
00:38:24
Speaker
Now I have the opportunity to build trust with you even more by asking you if you have the resources you need.
00:38:29
Speaker
Then we're getting to the end result.
00:38:31
Speaker
Are you happy here?
00:38:32
Speaker
What would make you happier here?
00:38:34
Speaker
And then offering that ultimate level of support with follow-up.
00:38:37
Speaker
How can I help or what can I do to support you?
00:38:40
Speaker
These seven questions are designed in this order to
00:38:43
Speaker
so that you can build a relationship with someone.
00:38:46
Speaker
And the first time you ask these questions, you're going to ask, are you happy here?
00:38:49
Speaker
What would make you happier?
00:38:50
Speaker
And there's a, add another zero to my paycheck.
00:38:53
Speaker
But that's only at the beginning.
00:38:54
Speaker
Once this becomes part of your culture and part of your leadership ethos and part of your communication strategy with your team, you will find you will get very authentic answers.
00:39:04
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:39:04
Speaker
And at the end of the day, it's about fostering positive relationships.
00:39:08
Speaker
That's what taking the risk, taking the opportunity to ask these seven questions.
00:39:12
Speaker
So I encourage our listeners, ask these seven questions, not just ask them to your employees, but ask yourself these seven questions.
00:39:18
Speaker
This will give you a good indication where your head's at.
00:39:22
Speaker
Take these questions and imagine a point in your career when you needed some support or when you were thinking about leaving an organization.
00:39:29
Speaker
If someone
00:39:30
Speaker
asked you these seven questions and followed through on these seven questions, would you really have left that organization?
00:39:36
Speaker
The answer might be yes, but think about what an impact that would have on you.
00:39:40
Speaker
Think about what an impact that would have on you today.
00:39:42
Speaker
So I'm going to repeat the seven questions one more time.
00:39:45
Speaker
I'll do it slowly.
00:39:46
Speaker
You can pause, grab a pen, piece of paper, open up your laptop, whatever you'd like to do to get these seven questions.
00:39:53
Speaker
Here are the seven questions.
Seven Questions for Engagement
00:39:55
Speaker
Do you feel your work has purpose?
00:39:58
Speaker
Do you feel like you belong?
00:40:01
Speaker
Do you trust the people you work with?
00:40:03
Speaker
Do you have the resources you need?
00:40:06
Speaker
Are you happy?
00:40:08
Speaker
What would make you happier here?
00:40:11
Speaker
How can I help or what can I do to support you?
00:40:14
Speaker
So Dr. C, any closing thoughts?
00:40:16
Speaker
Take the risk.
00:40:17
Speaker
Ask these questions.
00:40:18
Speaker
Get some introspection, but also build greater understanding of the people you're around.
00:40:23
Speaker
On the surface, these questions feel a little awkward because we're not used to asking these questions to the team members or employees or even to ourselves.
00:40:31
Speaker
But they only feel awkward until you put it into practice and you'll find you'll get some great insight and great perspective, better understanding of the people around you.
00:40:39
Speaker
Big
00:40:39
Speaker
I think we're done here.
00:40:40
Speaker
Why don't we close it up?
00:40:41
Speaker
I'm Dr. D. And I'm Dr. C. And we'll keep dissecting leadership.
00:40:44
Speaker
So your time at work looks a little less.
00:40:50
Speaker
I'll take my paycheck in binary.