Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Metaverse Age
31 Plays3 years ago
Listen as HSBC Global Research’s Disruptive Technologies Analyst, Davey Jose, discusses with Piers Butler the latest topics on the Metaverse Age. From the debate on infrastructure vs. content and whether digital goods really are the new reality, to the opportunities the Metaverse presents to investors.
This episode was recorded as part of a LinkedIn Live event on 7 June 2022. Click here for the disclaimer.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to HSBC Global Viewpoint
00:00:00
Speaker
This is HSBC Global Viewpoint, your window into the thinking, trends and issues shaping global banking and markets.
00:00:09
Speaker
Join us as we hear from industry leaders and HSBC experts on the latest insights and opportunities for your business.
00:00:17
Speaker
Thank you for listening.
Monthly Analyst Sessions with Piers Butler
00:00:23
Speaker
Welcome everyone to this HSBC Global Research Live Insights.
00:00:27
Speaker
I'm Piers Butler, Head of Global Research Direct, and I'll be your host today.
00:00:32
Speaker
So every month we interview one of our analysts live to answer your questions, covering everything from the economy through to ESG.
Focus on Disruptive Tech: The Metaverse
00:00:41
Speaker
And today we're going to be looking at one of our key global themes, disruptive technologies, and more specifically, the metaverse.
00:00:50
Speaker
And to help me do this, I'm delighted to welcome my friend and colleague, Davy Jost.
00:00:55
Speaker
Davy is a thematic analyst and lead of the disruptive technology theme.
00:01:00
Speaker
Davy, welcome.
00:01:01
Speaker
Thank you for having me here.
00:01:02
Speaker
So Davy, you and I have been talking about this theme for quite a while.
00:01:07
Speaker
In fact, ever since you wrote a report back in 2016 entitled The Virtual Reality Age Begins.
00:01:15
Speaker
So six years later, can we say we are at the end of the beginning?
00:01:20
Speaker
Absolutely, PS.
00:01:21
Speaker
No, exactly.
00:01:21
Speaker
I remember writing this many, many years ago about the virtual reality age beginning.
00:01:26
Speaker
So now we've written a new book called the metaverse age.
00:01:30
Speaker
So what's happened before was virtual reality technology was a very specific niche technology, but now it's become a more broader based thing called the phrase called the metaverse.
VR and AR: From Niche to Mainstream
00:01:41
Speaker
And what that effectively means is it's kind of an array of immersive technologies all the way from 2D screens to fully immersive 3D.
00:01:53
Speaker
So the expansion of the terminology of virtual reality has expanded into the subset of the world of what we call the metaverse.
00:02:02
Speaker
So you and I in the run up to this live event have been sharing quite a few articles.
00:02:08
Speaker
It seems to be really a trending topic.
00:02:10
Speaker
And obviously there are a lot of enthusiasts about virtual reality and augmented reality.
00:02:17
Speaker
One of the things we were looking at was there are skeptics.
00:02:19
Speaker
Some people are saying it's all just about gaming, wearing a heavy headset is not really a very viable proposition.
00:02:27
Speaker
What's your answer to that?
00:02:29
Speaker
So I think with any sort of technology cycle, PS, it all starts very early on.
00:02:34
Speaker
So for example, if you look at the first sort of computers back in the early 80s, maybe late 70s, or if you look at the early smartphones in the 90s, even 80s, it starts off very big, bulky, expensive,
00:02:47
Speaker
with all early adopters.
00:02:48
Speaker
And maybe that was where virtual reality was six, seven years ago.
00:02:53
Speaker
But now, as progress, innovation happens, the technology stack becomes smaller, lighter, and cheaper.
00:03:00
Speaker
For example, VR headsets about six, seven years ago would cost you around roughly $2,000 to start up.
00:03:07
Speaker
That would include your $1,000 headset.
00:03:10
Speaker
plus your $1,000 PC plugged into the main socket.
Tech Giants Bridging VR and AR
00:03:14
Speaker
But now, for example, you can buy, you know, through the shops, you can buy a virtual reality headset costing around $299 and it would weigh only between 300 to 500 grams.
00:03:24
Speaker
And of course, this is not the end.
00:03:26
Speaker
It's going to continue improving as we make breakthroughs in technologies.
00:03:31
Speaker
In fact, one of the latest articles we were looking at was this article in the New York Times about Apple getting involved in the space and, in fact, trying to bridge this divide between
00:03:44
Speaker
full virtual reality and augmented reality.
00:03:46
Speaker
Can you just explain a little more about that?
00:03:48
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:03:49
Speaker
So within the metaverse itself, there are different ways to display the technologies.
00:03:53
Speaker
One is sort of your 2D screens, such as mobile phones, tablets, and PCs.
00:03:58
Speaker
But the more immersive way to enter the metaverse will be through things like virtual reality and augmented reality.
00:04:05
Speaker
So virtual reality means you wear a headset, which basically takes over your visual system completely.
00:04:11
Speaker
So you can't see the real world at all.
00:04:13
Speaker
But what augmented reality is, it is a kind of a pair of headset or a pair of glasses, like a glasses you could wear, and it sort of has digital elements in your view.
Metaverse and Gaming: A New Economy
00:04:25
Speaker
So which means you can be aware of your surroundings, but at the same time have digital elements.
00:04:30
Speaker
For example, early versions of this is, for example, you have
00:04:33
Speaker
filters on your smartphone, whether you use Instagram or Snapchat or whatever you use, you can see sort of the filters on that.
00:04:42
Speaker
And so imagine that being projected on your glasses.
00:04:45
Speaker
So that's the primary difference between augmented reality PS and full virtual reality PS.
00:04:52
Speaker
So let's come back to that sort of skeptical view about virtual reality and the fact that it's all about gaming.
00:04:58
Speaker
But in fact, isn't gaming the sort of the sort of pathfinder?
00:05:03
Speaker
And have we have we sort of seen in gaming the development of money in the metaverse?
00:05:08
Speaker
Can you explain the significance of that?
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, for example, the reason people call gaming platforms an early version of the metaverse is because of multiple things.
00:05:20
Speaker
So if you think about the fully immersive VR, it's got to be sort of 3D graphics based.
00:05:26
Speaker
And if you look at it, what's 3D graphics based?
00:05:28
Speaker
Computer games and video games, right?
00:05:31
Speaker
So it's a case of just putting that software, or it's a bit more technical than that, putting the software into the headset or the augmented reality headset.
00:05:38
Speaker
So that's kind of the premise of that, why people call that.
00:05:41
Speaker
The other thing is there's a social element within the metaverse, right?
00:05:45
Speaker
And that has already been happening in the gaming sector for many, many years now.
00:05:51
Speaker
And one of the other things that's been happening is there's a thriving commerce economy
00:05:57
Speaker
happening within gaming systems.
00:05:59
Speaker
People buying widgets, you know, avatar skins and items so they're creators and there are consumers.
00:06:07
Speaker
And so this is kind of thing where we think the
Driving Metaverse Adoption: The 'Killer App'
00:06:10
Speaker
metaverse is going.
00:06:10
Speaker
Just like you make real products in the real world and you sell, you can do that in the metaverse.
00:06:16
Speaker
And that, you know, could potentially happen through things like NFTs, which is sort of digital items which you can own,
00:06:24
Speaker
or sell or create that is backed by blockchain technology.
00:06:28
Speaker
So that's the kind of broad definition of Piers.
00:06:32
Speaker
Okay, the questions are starting to come through.
00:06:34
Speaker
So here we go.
00:06:35
Speaker
Will esports and digital TC entertainment put more content into the metaverse?
00:06:40
Speaker
So what was the question again, Piers?
00:06:42
Speaker
Will?
00:06:43
Speaker
So will esports and digital TC entertainment put more content into the metaverse?
00:06:49
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:06:50
Speaker
So, you know, e-sports and digital content is part of the metaverse.
00:06:53
Speaker
So part of our broader definition of the metaverse includes all things like digital content, right?
00:06:59
Speaker
We talk about music, movies, games, all those things that are part of the metaverse.
00:07:04
Speaker
Because if you think about it,
00:07:07
Speaker
Within the metaverse, content will be king or queen, right?
00:07:11
Speaker
It's going to be important.
00:07:12
Speaker
So all these things that we already create with an eSports and digital download content will be transferred to the metaverse itself.
00:07:20
Speaker
As in, there'll be some content people need to... People will be using the metaverse to experience something.
00:07:26
Speaker
And what is that thing?
00:07:27
Speaker
And that is all the digital content we've created in 3D and more.
00:07:33
Speaker
So when we talked about this in the concept of the killer app, the question is what will it take and how long will it take to have mass adoption of the metaverse?
00:07:42
Speaker
I know that in your research reports, you made a number of long term sort of forecasts about it.
00:07:49
Speaker
And there's another question that ties into that is what are the daily applications that a metaverse can help fix bridge?
00:07:55
Speaker
I guess it's kind of saying everybody can recognize the metaverse and gaming
00:08:00
Speaker
When do we get this crossover point where it starts to become more part of our daily lives?
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's an excellent question, Pierre.
00:08:07
Speaker
So the point is, you know, whenever new technology comes along, people always talk about what is the killer app.
00:08:13
Speaker
So in terms of the full immersive multipart, whether it's augmented reality or virtual reality, what's the difference between
00:08:21
Speaker
using Zoom to interface with someone who are seeing the full metaverse.
00:08:25
Speaker
So one thing you could say is that when we're using Zoom, we can sort of lovingly call it pancake technology, where we're sort of flat screen.
00:08:33
Speaker
But what VR and augmented reality metaverse does, it allows you to feel like you are in a different place.
00:08:40
Speaker
You're basically in existing in us or transported to a different world, whatever that world is.
00:08:45
Speaker
So that's the feeling of presence.
00:08:47
Speaker
You actually feel like you are with somebody
VR Headset Projections
00:08:50
Speaker
there.
00:08:50
Speaker
So that's one of the key things that differentiates the 2D screens we have now and the metaverses.
00:09:00
Speaker
So in terms of that's the premise of the killer app, maybe.
00:09:06
Speaker
So in terms of when does it go mainstream?
00:09:07
Speaker
So at the moment, we have maybe like single-digit or double-digit millions of VR headsets in circulation.
00:09:15
Speaker
And by the end of the decade, we have estimated around 700 million headsets in circulation globally.
00:09:23
Speaker
So yeah, for example, Meta, which is run by Mark Zuckerberg, he sort of estimated that they would like to get a billion users into the virtual reality metaverse.
00:09:35
Speaker
at some point.
00:09:35
Speaker
So it's still a long way off, but you know, we'll have incremental improvements over the years in terms of compelling reasons why people should spend time in the metaverse.
00:09:45
Speaker
And so the more content you have, the more reasons people have to go into the metaverse.
Banking in the Metaverse
00:09:52
Speaker
Some great questions coming through, so keep them coming.
00:09:54
Speaker
Thank you very much.
00:09:55
Speaker
We're hearing about crazy prices for metaverse properties and for skins, whatever that is.
00:10:02
Speaker
I think I do know what that is.
00:10:04
Speaker
Do these hold real value?
00:10:05
Speaker
And this is the important question.
00:10:07
Speaker
Would there be a risk of one platform becoming the main platform and leaving the rest in the dust, like DVD versus Laserdisc?
00:10:17
Speaker
So that's a really good and really tough question.
00:10:20
Speaker
So when it comes to digital goods, for example, if you look at the, so basically when you think about technology, just look at what's happened in the past.
00:10:30
Speaker
So history isn't a map, but it's a guide to what could happen in the future as well.
00:10:35
Speaker
For example, if you think about when we had physical media, VHS, DVDs, and things like that, and Blu-ray.
00:10:43
Speaker
So you would have to go to the physical shop, you'd buy it, and then you bring it back.
00:10:48
Speaker
But then what happened is over the last decade or so, physical media
00:10:53
Speaker
has been replaced by digital streaming.
00:10:56
Speaker
So you no longer own physical DVDs or even books, you can sort of stream them online.
00:11:01
Speaker
So that means we still value digital items, right?
00:11:07
Speaker
We play things like Netflix, Amazon films or Disney plus or whatever we go out by.
00:11:12
Speaker
For example, in the metaverse, when you have digital items, they are replacing things like possibly.
00:11:18
Speaker
So in the metaverse, our real clothes may not be very useful, but our digital skins is the one that we take pride upon, how our avatars are represented.
00:11:28
Speaker
So that can have value within the metaverse.
00:11:31
Speaker
So I don't know about pricing or how the pricing works.
00:11:34
Speaker
That's all supply and demand, right?
00:11:36
Speaker
and branding.
00:11:37
Speaker
But in terms of digital goods, yes, if you look at the past, digital goods have had value and digital goods will probably likely to have value within the metaverse, just like we have for digital content in real life today, Pierce.
00:11:51
Speaker
The questions are coming thick and fast.
00:11:52
Speaker
It's a bit like the metaverse, it's sort of exploding now, but where do we expect intersection of banking and the metaverse?
00:11:59
Speaker
Well, that's a
Regulation and Privacy Concerns
00:12:00
Speaker
really interesting question.
00:12:00
Speaker
So, for example, if you think about
00:12:03
Speaker
the late 90s, right, when the internet was taking off, you know, what was the reason for a bank or any company to have a.com domain name?
00:12:13
Speaker
Nobody knew, but companies, you know, would buy whatever company name.com.
00:12:18
Speaker
But, you know, eventually, if you think about how banking happened, it's normally a physical thing, right?
00:12:23
Speaker
You go to a branch, you take out a loan, you take out a mortgage, whatever it is.
00:12:27
Speaker
But now, as we know, we can do all that things on the web, and now we can do it even on apps.
00:12:33
Speaker
So think about if you're living in this kind of metaverse world, maybe these companies can offer the similar services, but in a more immersive world.
00:12:41
Speaker
So imagine you are buying a property, real estate, for example.
00:12:45
Speaker
Maybe the company providing you the money can show you what the apartment or house
00:12:52
Speaker
or property looks like through virtual reality, you can walk in and have a look.
00:12:57
Speaker
So these kind of companies already exist.
00:12:59
Speaker
So there are companies that basically have virtualized the homes and send the headset to clients.
00:13:07
Speaker
So in the future, you could potentially look at these houses and visit it virtually before you basically step foot on a plane or a car or your bicycle or walk to the property.
00:13:20
Speaker
So these are some of the ways that can happen to us.
00:13:24
Speaker
Okay, here's a good question that sort of is bringing us back down to earth after all this enthusiasm.
00:13:28
Speaker
Hey David, given the bad press around the metaverse and the inclusion of commerce tokenization, what are your thoughts around regulation and what are you seeing beginning to transpire?
00:13:39
Speaker
So regulation is a very hot topic right up here because, you know, technology has embedded itself into all aspects of life, right?
00:13:47
Speaker
Before technology, if you remember back in the 80s and 90s, it was kind of a niche maybe, occupied some time, some space of your time.
00:13:55
Speaker
But now, you know, that incredible amount of data
00:13:58
Speaker
companies have about your life and what they can know about you has increased exponentially.
00:14:04
Speaker
And so because of that, lots of issues to do with privacy and data, you know, data understanding comes into play.
00:14:11
Speaker
For example, in around the world, governments have put increasingly sort of regulatory oversight in these technology domains, for example.
00:14:19
Speaker
GDPR in the UK, you've got data restriction laws in the US.
00:14:25
Speaker
So the metaverse is not going to be immune to that piece.
Cybersecurity in the Metaverse
00:14:29
Speaker
And so, as you know, for example, in
00:14:32
Speaker
when we wrote the report on the metaverse, on the virtual reality, a number of years ago, I mean, there were senators in the US already writing to Facebook asking, okay, you're gonna have this virtual reality headset, what are you gonna do with the data?
00:14:46
Speaker
So already people are asking questions about data privacy.
00:14:49
Speaker
And so with the metaverse,
00:14:51
Speaker
I think it's going to be an ongoing burning question.
00:14:55
Speaker
How do you regulate the metaverse environment?
00:14:58
Speaker
For example, some of our analysts in Asia have said that possibly in Asia, the regulations may be easier to enable the metaverse because many parts of the internet infrastructure is already highly regulated.
00:15:12
Speaker
whereas Europe and the US, it's been light touch because, you know, if you think about the early 90s when the internet was first deregulated by the Clinton administration, the reason the internet has grown so fast is because it's been light touch regulation.
00:15:26
Speaker
But as we've seen, the internet is all-encompassing in all our lives today.
00:15:31
Speaker
And so we've gone from very light touch regulation to now more understanding the importance data and technology plays in our lives and how that should have some regulatory oversight.
00:15:43
Speaker
What about, and you've written separately on this, but what about cybersecurity in the context of the metaverse?
00:15:50
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:15:50
Speaker
So, Piers, what we've seen over the pandemic is the amount of... because people have been working from home and now basically you're using bring your own devices and what that is growing.
00:16:03
Speaker
Criminals have moved online because this is where the eyeballs are.
00:16:06
Speaker
This is where all the value is kept, right?
00:16:09
Speaker
So we've seen an increase in ransomware globally.
Industry Disruption and the Pandemic
00:16:14
Speaker
And so the point is, if the metaverse exists on the Internet, and as long as we know it will exist on the Internet, so, you know, cybercrime and cybersecurity will be equally important within the metaverse because it exists on the Internet by definition.
00:16:32
Speaker
A question that is sort of linked initially to tourism, but perhaps broader, which is, and it is obviously that your theme, which is disruptive technologies, what industries is the metaverse likely to disrupt?
00:16:47
Speaker
Okay, this is another excellent question.
00:16:50
Speaker
We have no crystal ball, but funnily enough, PS, we did write a report a number of years ago called Transport Shock, Autonomous Today, Virtual Tomorrow.
00:17:01
Speaker
In it, we sort of did a sort of blue sky thinking about what areas, what sectors in society would be disrupted by the advent of, for example, the metaverse or virtual reality.
00:17:14
Speaker
And so, for example, you know, in a way it's already materialized, for example, because of the pandemic, we are all sort of embraced the Zoomification of society.
00:17:26
Speaker
So which means rather than having to travel for certain meetings, we have more willing to do it over Zoom.
00:17:32
Speaker
Of course, Zoom technologies have existed before, but the pandemic sort of accelerated the adoption of that, right?
00:17:37
Speaker
Our sort of culture of embracing that.
00:17:40
Speaker
So virtual reality means, you know, imagine that, but sort of slightly accelerated because it allows you to be more and more immersive.
00:17:48
Speaker
So, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean you will not go to your, you know, book your holiday flights, right?
00:17:53
Speaker
That's very different.
00:17:54
Speaker
But for, you know, for a 20-minute meeting, you would have to travel two or three hours.
00:18:00
Speaker
You'd have to rethink that meeting.
00:18:02
Speaker
Oh, let me do it over Zoom.
00:18:04
Speaker
But in the future, you can do it over the metaverse as well, Piers.
Environmental Impact of the Metaverse
00:18:08
Speaker
And it hasn't come to me in the questions, but I'm going to abuse of my privilege as the host to ask you the question anyway, which is the ESG aspect of the metaverse.
00:18:19
Speaker
I guess there's a positive side, which is in a way people will perhaps travel less and therefore there's less of a carbon footprint associated with that travel.
00:18:26
Speaker
But to power the metaverse, is there a negative ESG consequence?
00:18:31
Speaker
No, 100%, Piers, it's a very good question.
00:18:33
Speaker
And so in terms of the traveling, for example, Microsoft held an education conference in their platform called All Space VR during the pandemic because of restrictions.
00:18:43
Speaker
And what they said was that because of holding it in the metaverse, I think the estimate is unlike,
00:18:49
Speaker
a couple of million driven miles were taken off the road.
00:18:52
Speaker
So that's obviously positive for road traffic and road pollution and all that kind of stuff.
00:18:57
Speaker
But on the other side, the metaverse uses sort of high resolution graphics being rendered.
00:19:04
Speaker
I don't know whether it's 190 to 120 frames per second or whatever it is.
00:19:11
Speaker
And that is obviously connected to data centers.
00:19:15
Speaker
So already we've seen sort of stats of things like, okay, an hour of streaming consumes this amount of carbon or this amount of energy, right?
00:19:22
Speaker
So if you imagine the data being multiplied many fold for sort of full immersive metaverses, that's going to put pressure on sort of data centers and energy demand.
00:19:35
Speaker
In fact, before the pandemic, we actually did a study looking into this.
Current vs. Fictional VR Technologies
00:19:40
Speaker
And sort of at the time we estimated that if there are no technological breakthroughs in data center energy efficiency, which obviously there could be, we estimate in the worst case scenario, by the end of this decade, 20% of global power could be utilized, could be used by digitization, which includes things like metaverse and VR and things like cryptocurrencies.
00:20:06
Speaker
So yeah, that is a very big ESD issue.
00:20:10
Speaker
A fun question.
00:20:11
Speaker
And having read the book and watched the movie, I'm going to ask you, it's how far are we from starring in our own Ready Player One?
00:20:18
Speaker
I mean, obviously, it's a Spielberg film and perhaps some of you have read the book, but it's all about, you know, a whole story that takes place in virtual reality.
00:20:27
Speaker
I mean, how far do you think, how far away is that from happening?
00:20:31
Speaker
So, you know, it's funny when I was watching the movie many years ago, in some sense, we're kind of already there in terms of what it's capable of, because if you think about the headsets in the Ready Player One Steven Spielberg movie, the headsets are bigger than the headsets we have today.
00:20:47
Speaker
In some sense, it's full factor.
00:20:48
Speaker
We already get there.
00:20:49
Speaker
But in terms of full immersion, the movie is obviously much, much better.
00:20:53
Speaker
But yeah, I'm guessing, for example, in the next decade, you'll see lots of exciting sort of metaverses created and then, you know, eventually to look like that kind of world.
00:21:04
Speaker
I know in the film he has a headset and he's walking on a treadmill.
00:21:07
Speaker
You know, I used to be terrified that he'd fall off the
Health Implications of VR
00:21:09
Speaker
treadmill.
00:21:09
Speaker
But anyway, it's like, you know, yes, as you say, the headsets are actually definitely smaller now.
00:21:15
Speaker
Great question here on quantum computing.
00:21:18
Speaker
Will powerful quantum computing be the future of the immersive metaverse?
00:21:22
Speaker
And and it's something that you have written about brain to computer interfaces in a way where we eventually dispense from headsets and be connected directly into our brains.
00:21:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's a beautiful futuristic question.
00:21:33
Speaker
In terms of quantum computing, this is exactly one of the things we hypothesized that essentially if you're having computer graphics rendering these immersive worlds, so imagine a computer that can do faster calculations, quicker calculations, and imagine that it's quantum-based computing, right?
00:21:50
Speaker
It can do computation which traditional computers can't do, which would mean, in theory, you could make
00:21:57
Speaker
the metaverse simulation look indistinguishable from real life.
00:22:03
Speaker
And then obviously, if that is connected directly to your brain using things like brain computer interfaces, for example, you know, Elon Musk's Neuralink or something like that, then you would basically be living in some sort of matrix type world.
00:22:16
Speaker
I don't know whether it's a utopia or dystopia, but, you know, science fiction definitely has a view on this.
00:22:22
Speaker
There was a question on health, which I overlooked.
00:22:25
Speaker
I'm just going to come back to it.
00:22:26
Speaker
What are the health effects of life in the metaverse?
00:22:29
Speaker
What will be the effects on eyes wearing headsets all day?
00:22:32
Speaker
We have blue light specs to protect it.
00:22:34
Speaker
Currently, one in front of the 2D flat screen.
00:22:37
Speaker
Has any research been done on that?
00:22:39
Speaker
Yeah, so no, that is a good point, you know.
00:22:43
Speaker
So there are no, there haven't been any extremely long-term studies on the impact of wearing goggles all day long.
00:22:51
Speaker
But I do know on the upside, that at the moment, these VR goggles, for example, your eyes are fixed, a vision is fixed like eight feet in front of you.
00:23:00
Speaker
But they are inventing lenses which basically will change as you move around in the metaverse.
00:23:06
Speaker
So which will mean your eyes will be able to focus short distance and long distance.
00:23:10
Speaker
And so there are breakthroughs coming along with lens technology, which eventually will enable you to spend all day in the metaverse.
Metaverse Economy Drivers
00:23:19
Speaker
Now, we've only got five minutes left, everyone on the call.
00:23:22
Speaker
So get your questions in.
00:23:24
Speaker
I'll try and put them to Devi.
00:23:27
Speaker
Meta-economy, what will power the economy in the metaverse?
00:23:30
Speaker
Will it be ads?
00:23:31
Speaker
Will it be virtual services?
00:23:33
Speaker
So that's a very good question.
00:23:34
Speaker
You just have to look at what's happening on the internet today, right?
00:23:37
Speaker
We have free services, but that is backed by advertisements.
00:23:42
Speaker
But because of that, there's a kind of, shall we say, society doesn't necessarily agree with
00:23:48
Speaker
kind of how that sort of model is working.
00:23:52
Speaker
But the other model that exists is also we pay for services.
00:23:55
Speaker
So that's going to be dependent on what the consumer wants, right?
00:23:59
Speaker
We use the services.
00:24:00
Speaker
Will we want services that we pay for or will we prefer services that are free, which means we become the data?
00:24:06
Speaker
So that's a question for society.
00:24:09
Speaker
Both models will be offered to us.
00:24:12
Speaker
Now, a question on life in the metaverse.
00:24:14
Speaker
This is somebody who's really thinking big.
00:24:15
Speaker
Can I be present in multiple meta worlds?
00:24:19
Speaker
And with AI, will I be able to interact in different meta worlds at the same time?
00:24:25
Speaker
Wow, that's very futuristic.
00:24:27
Speaker
You should be writing science fiction novels now, you know.
00:24:31
Speaker
But no, absolutely.
00:24:33
Speaker
In theory, for example, if an AI was able to scan your body, it could create, you could analyze your personality, reading your emails, your Facebooks, Instagrams, and then basically pretend to be you in multiple universes.
00:24:48
Speaker
And then when you make a decision, it puts you in the ear, like, do you want to do this or do that?
00:24:52
Speaker
So absolutely, you can have multiple lives at the same
Interoperability of Metaverse Platforms
00:24:54
Speaker
time.
00:24:54
Speaker
Why not?
00:24:56
Speaker
Actually, this brings up a more serious point which you've raised, which is interoperability.
00:25:00
Speaker
So we have these different developers of metaverse universes
00:25:04
Speaker
And the real crossover will happen when they all start to inter-operate.
00:25:08
Speaker
Is that likely?
00:25:09
Speaker
You know, there was an earlier question about maybe somebody becoming a dominant player.
00:25:12
Speaker
Is that the way it will happen or will people kind of work together?
00:25:17
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's a very real question.
00:25:18
Speaker
For example, you know, if you buy an item in one metaverse, can you use it in another metaverse?
00:25:24
Speaker
At the moment, it's very difficult to do so.
00:25:27
Speaker
But for example, you know, leaders like Mark Zuckerberg have mentioned over the last six, seven months that, for example, the one example he gave was that if you buy a shirt in some stadium in the US, right, if you couldn't take it to another stadium and wear it,
00:25:43
Speaker
then the value of it is not much.
00:25:46
Speaker
So if you buy some item in one metaverse, you should be able to take it to another world.
00:25:51
Speaker
So companies are trying to work out how to do this.
HSBC's Disruptive Framework and Conclusion
00:25:55
Speaker
Interoperability will be paramount to the future of the metaverse.
00:26:01
Speaker
Now, one thing we didn't cover, and I think just as we finish, I think it'd be great to just share this with the audience, is your disruptive framework and where the metaverse kind of situates itself.
00:26:11
Speaker
So maybe very quickly, just give us the sort of key highlights of that.
00:26:14
Speaker
Yeah, so HSBC disruptive framework, we made it to show our wide stakeholders how commercial technology is.
00:26:23
Speaker
And today we put the metaverse technologies in kind of the real applications all the way towards kind of like the hype mania, which means that loads of companies are
00:26:34
Speaker
are pushing the technology as real products today.
00:26:38
Speaker
So it doesn't make significant amounts of revenue necessarily for all companies, but lots of companies are putting out pilots and test programs and selling actual products you can get.
00:26:47
Speaker
So it's not the real application.
00:26:49
Speaker
The final stage would be we would look for it to go into the new normal when it becomes like the internet because everybody uses it today.
00:26:56
Speaker
But we're a little bit far off from that normal.
00:26:58
Speaker
Now, a personal question maybe to finish.
00:27:01
Speaker
How many virtual reality headsets have you owned, Devi?
00:27:05
Speaker
Oh, if I said a number, I'd be too embarrassed online.
00:27:07
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:27:08
Speaker
It's embarrassing.
00:27:11
Speaker
Right.
00:27:11
Speaker
Well, I think we're pretty much up to time.
00:27:13
Speaker
Thank you, everyone, for taking part and for all the many and varied questions.
00:27:18
Speaker
Thank you, Devi, for joining us today.
00:27:20
Speaker
With that, thank you very much all for joining and look forward to seeing you on the next one.
00:27:27
Speaker
Thank you for listening today.
00:27:29
Speaker
This has been HSBC Global Viewpoint, Banking and Markets.
00:27:33
Speaker
For more information about anything you heard in this podcast or to learn about HSBC's global services and offerings, please visit gbm.hsbc.com.