Transcript
Speaker: All right, welcome everybody to our most recent episode with my good friend, Sean McConnell, formerly of MBA and now president of Decision HR.
Speaker: You can't hold a job.
Speaker: I mean, what's the problem?
Speaker: It's like one job.
Speaker: I know, she's pat, you know how it is.
Speaker: That's unbelievable.
Speaker: So thanks so much for joining us today, pal.
Speaker: I really do appreciate it.
Speaker: And, you know, we always do these.
Speaker: We talk about the person and then the industry.
Speaker: So we'll get a little background on Sean McConnell.
Speaker: And then we'll talk about, you know, getting into this industry and, you know, the broken road that you took to get where you are today.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Born where?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: I was born in, and I'm going to disappoint you here, Pat.
Speaker: I am one of the few that have no New Jersey connections.
Speaker: So I'm sorry about that.
Speaker: Really?
Speaker: None.
Speaker: You're actually my strongest New Jersey connection, I think.
Speaker: That's so sad.
Speaker: How could that be?
Speaker: I don't know, but at least I have you.
Speaker: Yeah, I was born in North Olmstead, Ohio, which is a suburb outside of Cleveland.
Speaker: So I I grew up being a Cleveland Brown fan, sadly, because I can't get rid because I can't get rid of it.
Speaker: I'm still a fan.
Speaker: Not many of those around.
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: And the Cleveland Cavaliers, at least we had LeBron.
Speaker: And then it was the Indians and now the Cleveland Guardians.
Speaker: I will say I've become more of a Tampa Bay Ray fan now because I think my strongest connection was football.
Speaker: And so the Browns, I can't get rid of.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, that is so sad.
Speaker: Well, how'd you get to Tampa?
Speaker: Did you move there as a kid or later?
Speaker: So my grandfather and grandmother moved from North Domestead back in 1983.
Speaker: And my dad was in the same business as my grandfather, which was hanging wallpaper, painting,
Speaker: My whole family, pretty much very blue collar, a lot of laborers.
Speaker: And my grandfather decided he wanted to take his shot and went move to Boca Raton.
Speaker: And and he did incredibly well, which I wasn't surprised.
Speaker: My grandfather was an unbelievable leader.
Speaker: He was a World War II vet.
Speaker: Honestly, he had a sixth grade education.
Speaker: He had to stop going to school to help on the farm that he grew up on.
Speaker: But he's a guy who read books.
Speaker: He was constantly reading.
Speaker: He could talk to them about anything.
Speaker: And he was a great leader.
Speaker: So he moved down to Boca.
Speaker: And my parents saw.
Speaker: And they were like, hey.
Speaker: It's kind of nice down there and you don't have to shovel snow.
Speaker: And, uh, and he told my father, he goes, I got so much work down here for you.
Speaker: He goes like, literally the streets are paved with gold.
Speaker: You know, you got to get down here.
Speaker: And so, uh, I didn't, I wasn't excited about it at first.
Speaker: Um, it's like, I think I was 15 years old and you know, you're in high school, got to say goodbye to the girlfriend.
Speaker: And, you know, you think those relationships are going to last.
Speaker: And, uh,
Speaker: And, uh, but then, but lucky, luckily enough, I, you know, I went to Boca and I went to Spanish river high school.
Speaker: And that is actually the first time.
Speaker: And I remember the very first time that I saw my wife, Audrey, and I saw her,
Speaker: In the hallways of Spanish River High School.
Speaker: And I was immediately smitten.
Speaker: She was less smitten with me initially.
Speaker: I mean, I had to win her over.
Speaker: And it took me a while.
Speaker: But no, I'm, of course, very happy that I went to Spanish River.
Speaker: And, but it was, it was a complete change for me because where I was going to school in North Elmstead people, you know, in high school, I mean, if you asked like how many kids here are going to college, it would easily be less than, I mean, it might only be 20% talking about college.
Speaker: Everybody else was talking about trade schools or going into the family business.
Speaker: And, and then all of a sudden I'm in Boca Raton and yeah,
Speaker: I was getting asked those questions and I was like, I'm not sure what I'm, you know, what, you know, what, what I'm going to do.
Speaker: And, you know, my parents, uh, of course they, you know, want, wanted me to do well, but it was not a household where it was, Hey, have you thought about what schools you're going to go to?
Speaker: Um, you know, very different from that high school in Boca.
Speaker: What was, what percentage of kids went to college?
Speaker: Oh, my God.
Speaker: It was like 98%.
Speaker: I mean, it was like everybody was doing it.
Speaker: And the fact that I was saying, like, I'm not sure, like shocked people.
Speaker: And it was like, well, you're kidding.
Speaker: But that move, I think, was like one of the biggest events in my life because it introduced me to a whole different way of thinking in high school.
Speaker: And I met, you know, there's when you look back at your life, there's pivotal people that like really affect you.
Speaker: And I had a debate teacher and I just I had never even knew it certainly wasn't a class in North Umstead High School, but it was at Spanish River.
Speaker: And and I took this debate class and professor was Burt Podhurst.
Speaker: And the guy was unbelievably smart, but just so and so charismatic and so fantastic that I really that was my favorite course, like in all of high school, except for photography, because I got to sit next to Audrey.
Speaker: So that was also that that was really my favorite course benefits.
Speaker: So but when you say the high school experience changed your way of thinking in what way?
Speaker: Mm hmm.
Speaker: Well, because I really wasn't thinking about higher education.
Speaker: And I really hadn't had...
Speaker: you know, I hadn't had doors open, you know, or even the vision of doors being open to me.
Speaker: I really thought before that, that I was going to go into what my grandfather did and my father, which, you know, which I worked with my, you know, both of them from the time I was like 10, 11 years old, I'd be, I'm sure it wasn't OSHA safe, like picking up razor blades and like,
Speaker: Doing doing all that that stuff.
Speaker: But like I that that was the family business and or become an electrician or a plumber and or, you know, or a cop or I mean, that that was kind of the.
Speaker: And then but it really changed for me when I was in high school and I was like in the friends that I made there, too.
Speaker: It was I also felt for the first time, like maybe I should go to college.
Speaker: Maybe I'm good enough to do that.
Speaker: But then the problem was, you know, had no money for college.
Speaker: Yeah, you got to pay for it.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: Yeah, which is why I joined the Navy.
Speaker: Yeah, don't give away the punchline.
Speaker: So then after high school, you went to work in the cruise industry.
Speaker: Am I right?
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: The luxury cruise industry, a really large one, a large ship, the USS America, CV-66.
Speaker: So yes, you joined the Navy right out of high school.
Speaker: I did.
Speaker: And basic training is where?
Speaker: Pensacola?
Speaker: No, that's flight, I guess.
Speaker: No, it was in Orlando.
Speaker: And now it's closed down.
Speaker: I mean, I think it's all in the Great Lakes region now where they have boot camp.
Speaker: And that was... I was actually just talking to someone this morning about it.
Speaker: And he was like, oh, yeah, you know, was boot camp tough?
Speaker: And I was like, well, I think it was tougher for some people.
Speaker: I'm like, the physicality of it, like, I didn't prepare myself well enough for all the running and the... But, you know, there's a lot of...
Speaker: you know a lot of mind games and mental stuff that i was fine with that but uh you know i saw a lot of people struggle with it uh in boot camp but i didn't think boot camp was horrible i it was it was more than anything annoying but i was you know i was doing it for a reason and i wanted the gi bill that's what i wanted i wanted to step up from north olmstead high school i think absolutely yes
Speaker: Yes, it was.
Speaker: Okay, so you went in doing what?
Speaker: What was your job when you got here?
Speaker: Well, so I went in, and that's one of the reasons I chose the Navy.
Speaker: Well, there's two.
Speaker: My grandfather, who I said was in World War II, he was in the Navy.
Speaker: My dad was in Vietnam, and he was in the Air Force, and I was really angry with my father at the time, and I'll be like, there's no way I'm going to the Air Force.
Speaker: But the Navy let you pick your job.
Speaker: And I was like, okay, well, I don't want to get shot at.
Speaker: I don't want to get dirty.
Speaker: Like, what can I do?
Speaker: And they tried to get me to go into the nuclear program, but you had to commit for longer.
Speaker: And I was like, nah.
Speaker: Not doing that.
Speaker: So I became a yeoman, which is a Y-N.
Speaker: It's essentially an administrative support person.
Speaker: And so what you do is after boot camp, they send you what's called a school.
Speaker: And I went to Meridian, Mississippi to learn how to be a yeoman, which is I had to learn how to type.
Speaker: I had to learn, you know, the whole whole bunch of stuff, you know.
Speaker: And then based on your rank in your your A class, you get to pick.
Speaker: where you get assigned.
Speaker: And so I was really motivated to do well.
Speaker: And I did very well.
Speaker: And I was the first person to pick out of 50 we had in our class.
Speaker: And it was the first time that the instructors in years hadn't seen a shore billet, which is what I wanted because I knew I was getting married
Speaker: soon um and i didn't want to be away so i chose the the best thing that was there and that was to work for a carrier air group one on the uss america so i worked for the captain of the there's two captains on a carrier captain of the ship captain of the air wing and i worked for the captain of the air wing and it was uh
Speaker: And ultimately, it was definitely the best choice I could have made with what was given.
Speaker: And then the golf work broke out.
Speaker: And so then I was like, wow, now I'm really gone for a long time.
Speaker: So yeah, it was not exactly what I expected, but it certainly was something that shaped me tremendously, probably more than I even realized.
Speaker: And, you know, in terms of choosing the Navy, there's that line from a few good men where the guy says to the Marine, have you got something against the Navy?
Speaker: And he said, not at all.
Speaker: Anytime we got a war to fight, you all give us a ride.
Speaker: You boys give us a ride and drop us up.
Speaker: Yes, I've heard all the Navy stuff.
Speaker: And, you know, I'm
Speaker: On every carrier, they have a Marine detachment, too.
Speaker: And they're like the police.
Speaker: And so, you know, they're really friendly to the Navy guys.
Speaker: I mean, if you're down and you just want someone to talk to, maybe need a hug, go to the Marines.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: That's what they're known for, really.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: So the USS America, it was?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And it's a carrier.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It was a carrier, yes.
Speaker: Conventional.
Speaker: So it's a non-nuclear carrier.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: But you got shipped out?
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: For how long?
Speaker: Well, I did three longer cruises that were about six months each.
Speaker: But then there were workups for two months.
Speaker: But during the Gulf War, that was almost six months.
Speaker: And my son, Sabre, was born on January 6th.
Speaker: And the Gulf War broke out like, I can't remember the exact date, but right around.
Speaker: I was on the ship when I learned that he was born.
Speaker: And so I didn't meet him until the end of all of that, which, you know, the command was so cool, too.
Speaker: And I worked for the captain.
Speaker: They actually said, hey, you know, and it was true.
Speaker: You know, I was just an E3, like at the, at that time.
Speaker: So it's, uh, you know, Seaman Apprentice McConnell, Hey, we need you.
Speaker: You're going to go, you got to get off in Spain and you got to get everything ready for, you know, when the ship comes in.
Speaker: And I was like, awesome.
Speaker: I'm getting off the ship soon.
Speaker: But what I didn't realize is that they had coordinated all this.
Speaker: And so I met Audrey and Sabre for the first time, um,
Speaker: uh in nas oceana like on the the flight line there they were like waiting and so yeah it was actually really cool that's so great but the ship your port was nas oceana was that what this came out no no no it was norfolk uh but so the air with the air wing when when the ship was in would go to naval air station oceana and then whenever the ship went out we would have to move in and uh
Speaker: So, you know, a lot of something I didn't realize then is, you know, there can be animosity between Chip's company, like the people who are like, oh, you're coming into our house.
Speaker: You guys think that you're so special with the flight, with the flying and stuff.
Speaker: And my job was I reported directly to the captain of the air wing, too.
Speaker: So and then there's squadrons, you know, that report, you know, to the, you know, to the captain.
Speaker: And yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker: It was really an amazing experience.
Speaker: And wow, you talk about the best pilots in the world.
Speaker: I mean, they're the naval aviators that are landing on those.
Speaker: I mean, there's great pilots in the Air Force.
Speaker: But, you know, I was lucky enough to meet someone who at that time was already a legend.
Speaker: And I didn't really realize, but I actually was in Pensacola.
Speaker: And I saw at the I went into the.
Speaker: the Naval Aviation Museum there.
Speaker: And they had a whole segment on commander Dale Snodgrass, which I think he, I think he got to Admiral before he was out, but I met him and he was a commander of an F-14 squadron.
Speaker: And, uh, he was actually the guy that Top Gun was based on, um, loosely, loosely based.
Speaker: And, uh,
Speaker: And he was just like the nice, like the most, I mean, he was cocky, but he was funny.
Speaker: And like, he was so great to the enlisted guys because look, I was as low as, cause I went in as an E1, was not an officer.
Speaker: And you know, it really meant a lot to me.
Speaker: doing that, the officers who treated the enlisted well, and frankly, there were a lot of them, but then there were some like, hey, why isn't there coffee here?
Speaker: And I'm like, I don't drink coffee.
Speaker: I'm not making coffee.
Speaker: Those lessons stay with you.
Speaker: You remember.
Speaker: Oh, yes.
Speaker: You remember.
Speaker: And by the way, if you're flying an F-14, 16, 18, you want them to be cocky.
Speaker: Yes, that's true.
Speaker: No, that's absolutely a requirement.
Speaker: You don't want them to be timid.
Speaker: That's exactly right, man.
Speaker: And, you know, you see the videos online and it's a postage stamp.
Speaker: You see the videos of the planes landing on those carriers.
Speaker: And, oh, man, you're hitting a really tiny target.
Speaker: And you're right.
Speaker: They're the best pilots in the world.
Speaker: They really are.
Speaker: So how so from the USS America to the PEO industry.
Speaker: So how the hell that happened.
Speaker: So once you got back, what was your four year tour or how long you're in the Navy?
Speaker: I got out a little less than four years because they had a program then that if you were going into college that you could get out up to 60 days earlier.
Speaker: And so, and I was really happy that that worked out for me because I would have been underway like during that time and it would have had to like fly back.
Speaker: So my, my twins, I have a twin sister and my twin sister upon graduating high school, uh,
Speaker: She kind of floated around for a while, did some jobs in real estate, but then ended up at the University of Florida.
Speaker: And so, you know, I knew she was there and I visited Gainesville, loved it.
Speaker: I had some other friends there.
Speaker: So for me, I was committed.
Speaker: I was like, I'm going to UF if they'll have me.
Speaker: They actually rejected me first because my high school GPA was not very good.
Speaker: But my, but my SAT scores were like near perfect and the ACT scores.
Speaker: And so actually Audrey, after I got turned down, she, without me knowing, called and there was a, you could petition to have a panel review it.
Speaker: And she got this guy, his name was Pat, by the way, Pat Green.
Speaker: He's a Vietnam vet.
Speaker: And so Audrey spoke to him and it's like, Hey, you know,
Speaker: I really think that you guys should consider Sean.
Speaker: And, you know, and I also, when you're on the carrier, you can take college classes afloat, which I didn't know initially.
Speaker: And actually one of the best professors I ever had, it was an English teacher, John Ketchum was on that.
Speaker: So I had a 4.0 GPA for college credits that I was taking while I was, I was in anyway, luckily I got in on academic probation.
Speaker: And I was like, and I found it was a complete surprise to me.
Speaker: And so,
Speaker: University of Florida had to finish up my undergrad, reunited with my twin sister, which it was so great.
Speaker: And then, you know, I knew I wanted to go to law school.
Speaker: I was, I was like, okay, I, I didn't want to do what my, the, you know, the family business.
Speaker: And I was like, no, I think, you know, I think I could do it.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: got in and my dream was to go to Notre Dame.
Speaker: And that was the thing of like in my family, the Irish Catholic family.
Speaker: It's like, Oh, you get into Notre Dame.
Speaker: Jesus, you're made, you're a made man.
Speaker: Um, and, and, and I am happy to say that I got into Notre Dame for law school, but I, I,
Speaker: You know, UF was actually the last one to, because I applied to five and UF was the last one and they accepted me.
Speaker: And it was just, I couldn't, the tuition was so much less.
Speaker: And, you know, at that point, you know, I had,
Speaker: I had two kids and I was living in village housing, which by the way, the university of Florida has like, if you're married or you have a legal dependent, the only one that rivals it is university of Michigan.
Speaker: The amount of housing, you know, for people,
Speaker: with kids or, you know, or even if they're, if they're, there were a lot of like, uh, single parents there with kids.
Speaker: And so, you know, my kids were lucky enough to grow up into that in that too, which I think was amazing.
Speaker: Nobody has any real money or anything, but what they do have is massive diversity and, you know, languages.
Speaker: Um, yeah.
Speaker: And so, uh, I didn't want to leave the university of Florida, Pat, not going to lie.
Speaker: When I ultimately graduated, I was like, Hmm.
Speaker: And, but I knew, I knew I wanted to litigate and I knew I wanted to actually be in court.
Speaker: And so I wanted, and I wanted it to matter.
Speaker: So I chose labor and employment defense and got a job with a,
Speaker: a great boutique law firm in Tampa.
Speaker: It was called Thompson Sizemore Gonzalez.
Speaker: It's now been acquired, you know, so consolidation doesn't just happen in the PEO industry.
Speaker: It got acquired, but you know, I did that for about five years and I loved it, but I will, it was, it was all consuming.
Speaker: And Audrey was,
Speaker: really didn't like.
Speaker: And she said to me at one point, she goes, you know, and she had been talking and she goes, sometimes when you're home, you're not really home.
Speaker: And I'm like, I know, but I got this deposition tomorrow.
Speaker: And so she really strongly encouraged me.
Speaker: to look for something else.
Speaker: And I, but you know, but I want to just pause just to, to mark time that like from, you know, where you started, you know, and, uh, North Olmstead, Ohio to like only seeing as far as high school graduation, this is kind of audacious, right.
Speaker: To say like, I want to go to law school.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: It was, listen, it was shocking to, I think, you know, well, they were proud, but like my, my grandfather, for instance, I mean, he was alive, you know, you know, through law, saw me graduate.
Speaker: And I don't think there was a person more proud than like my grandfather who, you know, didn't finish high school.
Speaker: And so he absolutely believed it.
Speaker: But like, yeah, I was, I was the first person like in my kind of immediate family to graduate from college.
Speaker: Even though my sister got there earlier, I lapped her because, you know, she was on like, she was on the party program.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But by the way, because you were older, you were probably more serious about college.
Speaker: Oh, and I had kids and I was like, I'm here.
Speaker: Yeah, I had fun, but like I wasn't pledging fraternities or, you know, my college experience was very different than I think a lot of people, but I wouldn't have had it any other way.
Speaker: And I also worked all through college.
Speaker: That's a grind.
Speaker: That's a grind.
Speaker: Yeah, but it was, it was, it was fabulous.
Speaker: And so, uh, you know, and then, and then getting to the litigate, like I had some of the best like mentors, um, and saw, you know, like as much as being in the military was like culture shock, you know, for me, like, wow.
Speaker: Um, which it was, you know, at times and really kind of transformative, uh,
Speaker: or even like being in Spanish River and having this different mentality, you know, being in a law firm and seeing like how it's really done because, you know, and people who aren't lawyers think like, oh, law school really prepares you to be a lawyer.
Speaker: Now it doesn't.
Speaker: It prepares you to think like a lawyer.
Speaker: But I'm actually leaving out one like really critical, important thing too, that it's just crazy how life is.
Speaker: While I was in college and in law school,
Speaker: A friend of mine who is a really brilliant friend of mine who he was getting, he got a PhD in pharmaceuticals and in engineering engineering.
Speaker: He wanted to start a company and it was called Nanosphere.
Speaker: And it was about coding drug particles and using harmonic sound with a cloud and an eczema laser.
Speaker: And it's getting way more technical than I understood at the time.
Speaker: But it was getting a lot of attention and he was getting a lot of grants.
Speaker: And we would play pool every Tuesday and he would talk to me about it.
Speaker: And he's like, can you help me with this?
Speaker: And I was like,
Speaker: I don't know how much I can help you.
Speaker: I said, but yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: I'm like, he's like, well, you're almost a lawyer.
Speaker: I'm like, no, I'm not almost a lawyer.
Speaker: I'm like, I'm like, but I will help you.
Speaker: And, you know, and I'll get lawyers, you know, actual lawyers like to do what we need to do.
Speaker: Anyway, long story short, like, I mean, it took a long time.
Speaker: I mean, the company grew and grew and grew and it changed names and it ultimately became ology and it sold a
Speaker: about four years ago for a tremendous amount of money.
Speaker: And I had ownership because of being there at the beginning.
Speaker: But I stayed connected to it and stayed on the board.
Speaker: And they were clients of MBA for-
Speaker: I had no idea.
Speaker: Yeah, for many years.
Speaker: Yeah, so there have actually been, my friend has started another company called Allchem and he's like, Sean, you need to be on the board.
Speaker: I'm like, you know what?
Speaker: I'm good for right now, but thank you.
Speaker: But it's been super interesting stuff.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So I just want to go back to Spanish River for a second.
Speaker: I hammer into my daughter all the time I have for 20 years.
Speaker: She's 30 now.
Speaker: Life is about aspirations and expectations.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: It's what you aspire to and what you expect of yourself, right?
Speaker: And so in Ohio, people didn't aspire to much, right?
Speaker: And they didn't expect much, right?
Speaker: And then you get to that high school and you realize people aspire to great things and they expect great things from themselves.
Speaker: And it does, to your point, it changes your worldview.
Speaker: It's completely.
Speaker: No, I totally agree with that, Pat.
Speaker: Because, yeah, if I would have stayed in Ohio, there's no way.
Speaker: I could have had a happy life, but it would have been very, very different.
Speaker: Yes, yes, absolutely right.
Speaker: And so, okay, so you're in the courtroom, but that's wearing you down.
Speaker: It's grinding you down.
Speaker: So we're getting closer to the PEO industry.
Speaker: So then what happens?
Speaker: You leave the firm or what do you do?
Speaker: You got a family, you can't not work.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: No, exactly.
Speaker: And I, well, first I knew about the PEO industry because my mentor, Bill Sizemore, fabulous lawyer, he was highly involved with Advantech.
Speaker: I'm not sure if he ever had ownership, but I did work for Advantech.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Many, like in the early 2000s and was like,
Speaker: And I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing.
Speaker: And I thought about, like, my grandfather and my father, like, you know, running crews, you know, getting.
Speaker: And I remember all the problems that they had.
Speaker: And, like, whether it was comp problems, payroll problems constantly, HR problems.
Speaker: And I was like, oh, my God, they do all this for.
Speaker: And I remember asking my mentor, I was like, how much how much do.
Speaker: The companies pay to have Advantech do that.
Speaker: And he was like, well, you know, it varies, but he gave me kind of like the rough estimates.
Speaker: And I'm like, why doesn't everybody I'm like, oh, this would have saved so many headaches for my grandfather, truly.
Speaker: And and my father, like why?
Speaker: Like, why?
Speaker: And I can guarantee you, they were still doing business when PEOs were... While PEOs existed, they just never knew.
Speaker: And so I fell in love with the concept.
Speaker: And I was like, this is really amazing, really fantastic.
Speaker: And so when I decided to start looking, and my mentor passed away.
Speaker: And so I stayed on with the firm for a while.
Speaker: But I knew that I was eventually going to go.
Speaker: There was an ad in the Florida Bar News for an HR manager.
Speaker: I didn't know the company, but I was like, let me check this out.
Speaker: As it turns out, it was MBA.
Speaker: I interviewed with Midge Seltzer and her sister, Betsy Murray.
Speaker: Instantly, I was like, yes, this is absolutely, that's probably the best job interview I ever had because I knew about the PEO industry.
Speaker: They were shocked that I was like a labor and employment attorney that like really, really knew about the industry.
Speaker: And for me, I was like, I also loved that MBA was privately held.
Speaker: And that it was not huge and certainly not huge at the time.
Speaker: That was really attractive to me.
Speaker: I knew they had like 11 other attorneys, but I was like this, I could probably do well here.
Speaker: And so that's how I got in.
Speaker: What year was that?
Speaker: What year did you join?
Speaker: That was 2005.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, 2005.
Speaker: And so I started as assistant general counsel, HR manager.
Speaker: And as I said, there were like 11 or so other attorneys.
Speaker: And I was assigned groups of clients.
Speaker: And one of the things I love so much, and it's an MBA doesn't have...
Speaker: the license on, on this is that PEOs, it's the relationships that you have with your clients.
Speaker: Now, some PEOs, the relationships are with like the customer service people.
Speaker: Some are with, you know, the payroll.
Speaker: And, and I think, and all those things matter, but MBA, I think is always really pushed.
Speaker: strong relationships with the HR managers, which are now called HR consultants, but they're the, they're the lawyers.
Speaker: They're the people who, um, you left litigation and they're, they're there.
Speaker: And one of my favorite things, even when I was litigating was, uh,
Speaker: And like, you know, there's different roles and, you know, people think, oh, lawyers, they should be sharks.
Speaker: And like, that's what they, well, you know, there's a time and place for that.
Speaker: There's some lawyers who are never, never going to be that, but it's the counselor role of the lawyer that I always loved.
Speaker: the most.
Speaker: And, you know, and a lot of times clients don't want to pay every six minutes to, you know, like lay everything out like that.
Speaker: And so I absolutely love that that aspect of the PEO is that you're really advising.
Speaker: It's more of a partnership and helping them out in that way.
Speaker: You're a problem solver.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you did that AGC for a while.
Speaker: And then when did you become GC?
Speaker: It was, I actually have in this room, I, we used to make metal nameplates with titles.
Speaker: And when I became CEO, I actually, well, it was that it was actually before that it was when I became the chief legal officer.
Speaker: I had them all framed.
Speaker: And so I would have them in my office because I also wanted to show people at MBA, like, guys, I started here.
Speaker: And then I will say it happened pretty quickly for me.
Speaker: And I think I was lucky.
Speaker: I worked with unbelievably great people.
Speaker: And they saw that I was how committed I was.
Speaker: And I was committed to the clients, but also really believed in the mission of MBA.
Speaker: And I do recall at the time starting that there was kind of a lot of negativity with a lot of the attorneys.
Speaker: I went to lunch with them, and they were like, well, Betsy's never retiring.
Speaker: And so there's really nowhere to go.
Speaker: And I would never concern myself with that.
Speaker: I was like, I'm just going to work hard.
Speaker: I'm going to have the relationships.
Speaker: And I was confident that it would eventually happen.
Speaker: But I will tell you, it all happened immediately.
Speaker: way quicker than I thought it would.
Speaker: And it happens for different reasons.
Speaker: And I think it happens in all companies and certainly in PEOs.
Speaker: And so I definitely was very excited every time that there was another opportunity.
Speaker: The only one that ever gave me pause is when the CEO opportunity came out.
Speaker: And I initially was like, this might not be for me.
Speaker: And why?
Speaker: Why?
Speaker: That's a big move.
Speaker: You went through GC, chief legal officer, right?
Speaker: And you were chief legal officer when the CEO job opened up.
Speaker: Yes, I was.
Speaker: So why equivocate?
Speaker: Well, it was never something that was an objective of mine.
Speaker: And it was never something, I was very happy with the company exactly the way that it was.
Speaker: And I could have done that
Speaker: you know, forever.
Speaker: And also, you know, MBA was a very generous company too, about the compensation was very good.
Speaker: Um, and I, you know, had ownership and, you know, at the, at that stage.
Speaker: And I was like, wow, this is, this is fantastic.
Speaker: In addition to that, um, I knew that area of the business incredibly well.
Speaker: If it's about, you know, dealing with the EPLI carriers, any kind of any HR issue, um,
Speaker: and all the government regulation and everything.
Speaker: I had a very close relationship with FAPIO and then NAPIO as well.
Speaker: I loved all of that.
Speaker: But what I did not have is I certainly didn't view things like a CPA would.
Speaker: So I didn't have the financial literacy that I think...
Speaker: is necessary like to be a CEO.
Speaker: Um, and then there was, you know, just operationally, I think I was decent at it, but no, no, no, there's people in our industry that are mind blowing.
Speaker: So I was very aware of like my, my strengths and my weaknesses.
Speaker: And so it gave me serious pause when the opportunity, uh, came out, but you know, I talked to good friends and people in the industry and they were like,
Speaker: No, here's what, you know, you absolutely should do it.
Speaker: And by the way, this is how you address all those other issues, which I ultimately did.
Speaker: So I'm so happy that I did it.
Speaker: But I think, you know, fear of failure, you know, to be honest, I was like, oh, my God, I've had so much success.
Speaker: And if I do this, and how embarrassing.
Speaker: And I also, the other thing, too, is that I really loved mentoring the attorneys in the HR department.
Speaker: And, you know, that to me was something really special.
Speaker: And DHR is maintaining, you know, that kind of thing with the lawyers.
Speaker: I knew that I could always recruit
Speaker: lawyers that were like-minded to me that were like, Hey, yes, we, we enjoyed litigation, but we want a little bit more work-life balance and we want to work in a place where it's collaborative, um, and, you know, intellectually stimulating.
Speaker: And so I knew taking the CEO role was going to distance me from that because I wasn't, I wouldn't have the same amount, which I was absolutely correct about that.
Speaker: Um, but, uh,
Speaker: But yeah, I mean, it was obviously, you know, I'm super happy that I did it.
Speaker: But to me, that falls into the category of sometimes in life, you know, you got to make yourself uncomfortable to grow.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: You can't be can't be afraid to do it.
Speaker: And what year did you become CEO?
Speaker: Oh, Jesus, that was.
Speaker: I think 2015.
Speaker: Yeah, so 2015 or 2016.
Speaker: So like 10 years after joining the company or thereabouts.
Speaker: So how many worksite employees did you have when you became CEO?
Speaker: Ballpark.
Speaker: I don't.
Speaker: We had I actually think that we had more worksite employees when I became CEO.
Speaker: However, one of my I had many objectives when I became CEO.
Speaker: And were they?
Speaker: Well, I wanted the company to be very profitable.
Speaker: I wanted the ownership to do very well.
Speaker: I wanted to maintain a culture of promote from within, massive respect to employees, and really care.
Speaker: And I think you can't fake it.
Speaker: You either care or you don't care.
Speaker: And I certainly believe that
Speaker: If somebody resigned and they were going to work somewhere else, I would wish them the absolute best and genuinely mean it.
Speaker: And I would say to myself, if we lost a good employee, shame on us.
Speaker: What are we doing wrong that they wanted to go?
Speaker: But I also wanted...
Speaker: I knew at some point there was going to be a transaction with MBA.
Speaker: And so I wanted the EBITDA to be correct.
Speaker: And so in order to do that, it's not just about adding numbers.
Speaker: You can't make up in volume a bad deal.
Speaker: And it's draining on the employees.
Speaker: And so for me, it was really clear about what it was that I wanted to do.
Speaker: It took a while to get there.
Speaker: And really, I have to thank so many people like Roxanna Rostegui, Abby Kaczynski, who you know Abby.
Speaker: But before her, it was Patrice Featherstone.
Speaker: But even before that, Chris McDonald.
Speaker: So there were so many people that were instrumental.
Speaker: But I was always, as a CEO, really any of my positions, I'm very collaborative.
Speaker: And so I want to hear opinions from everyone.
Speaker: I know I don't know everything, but I also want to be transparent about, well, here's my concern about that.
Speaker: I don't like it because this is, oh, no, Sean, you don't need to worry about it.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, well, now that you told me that, well, I'm absolutely happy to do it.
Speaker: But I really wanted to make sure that we did things correctly.
Speaker: And what I mean by that is because, look, MBA was always a very ethical, like, PEO, but
Speaker: I wanted to do things correctly business-wise and that weren't just about, in my opinion, appearance of numbers and actually good business that didn't stress.
Speaker: Employees get stressed about lots of things, but you want to know that they're working hard and they're working hard for a reason and it's solid.
Speaker: That was my objective.
Speaker: I also...
Speaker: I kind of have a love-hate relationship with brokers.
Speaker: And so I really felt we were too dependent on the broker network.
Speaker: Now, I know that there's plenty of PEOs that are wildly successful with the broker network.
Speaker: And MBA certainly did very well with brokers, but I wanted to introduce more direct sales.
Speaker: And we were pretty successful with that, of doing it.
Speaker: And of course, there's huge upside if you can actually get the direct sales because you're not paying
Speaker: you know an outside broker yeah so did you see growth over your time like from 2015 to uh financially yes yeah yeah yeah yes yeah and headcount worksite employees or or you you were driven more on uh by the number not by the number of worksite employees i was driven by quality over over quantity but there wasn't there what there ultimately was an increase in the numbers yes
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But yes, that's interesting.
Speaker: But you weren't slave to that number.
Speaker: You were more slave to what that number brought.
Speaker: Well, there was several deals during the time that I said no to.
Speaker: I was like, sorry, that's not enough admin.
Speaker: I don't like the risk.
Speaker: And where that was shocking, I know to people –
Speaker: When I took over, they're like, well, that would have never happened.
Speaker: I'm like, well, no, I absolutely don't want that.
Speaker: I also knew what our strengths were, which is interesting because now Decision HR, I see they have a tremendous amount of California business.
Speaker: Before doing the deal with Decision HR, we had some, but I was certainly not trying to get more California business.
Speaker: They actually do it, and they do it really well.
Speaker: They committed to it.
Speaker: That's something that's...
Speaker: totally in their wheelhouse.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So you said when you were at MBA, when MBA just operated, you know, by itself, you knew what your strengths were.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: What were they?
Speaker: Um, certainly anything legal, anything, and, you know, anything HR.
Speaker: And I knew that I was collaborative and I think I've, uh,
Speaker: I'm respectful to employees.
Speaker: I think I'm reasonably intelligent.
Speaker: So I will commit to understand if they have a problem, what their concern is.
Speaker: I was always willing to take time.
Speaker: And I don't care if it was 7 o'clock at night or 7 o'clock in the morning.
Speaker: to solve problems.
Speaker: And I also knew a great strength of mine was client relationships, whether it was on the sales side, which I did do some, well, I wouldn't say quite a bit, but I did spend time on certain prospects.
Speaker: But it was also maintaining good relationships with clients that we had had for so many years,
Speaker: and in taking their call.
Speaker: So I knew I wouldn't have a problem with any of that.
Speaker: I just worried about the stuff that I'm like, what's happening behind the curtain?
Speaker: The curtain I never looked in before.
Speaker: And I had to go behind those curtains.
Speaker: But that's not something, if you don't have the experience in it,
Speaker: It takes a while, and you better have people around you that you trust to tell you exactly what the deal is.
Speaker: Luckily, I did.
Speaker: I didn't hesitate to ask for help.
Speaker: By the way, those people weren't all employees of MBA.
Speaker: They were people on the outside, people like Jennifer Robinson that would go, Sean, by the way, this is exactly how this works.
Speaker: These are the questions that you should ask.
Speaker: There are so many great people in the industry.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So all roads lead to J-Ro.
Speaker: Like at some point or another, everybody goes to her for her advice or for her counsel or her help one way or another.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: So tell me about MBA to decision HR, you know, as much as you're willing to say, because, you know, I talked to folks about the decision to sell and I know you had, you know, it wasn't just yours alone, you know, involved in decision, but like,
Speaker: You had the decision to do it, finding the right partner.
Speaker: Talk about that, if you would.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I mean, I think it's, I mean, you see so much of it happening in the industry.
Speaker: And I knew eventually, but it actually was a year sooner than I thought it was going to happen.
Speaker: And I was incredibly happy, as was ownership, like the direction where the company was.
Speaker: So it completely shocked me.
Speaker: I was like, my God, we're killing it.
Speaker: Like, why don't we...
Speaker: And, but, you know, look, when you have partners, you know, they have different views about what it is that they wanted to do.
Speaker: And so when I realized my partner was serious about it, I said, okay, well, if we're going to do it, because he goes, hey, I think, you know,
Speaker: Yeah, I want out.
Speaker: I'm like, well, I don't.
Speaker: I was like, so, you know, and if we're going to do this, we have to find a partner that has certain criteria.
Speaker: And he's like, well, what are you talking about?
Speaker: I was like, well, they're not going to come in and trash and lay off a bunch of employees.
Speaker: I'm like, they've
Speaker: been through the fire for us.
Speaker: I'm not doing that.
Speaker: And not only is that unfair to the employees, it's unfair to the clients.
Speaker: And those relationships matter to me.
Speaker: I'm like, I want a partner that actually is going to make something better.
Speaker: And I also, I'm like, look, I really don't want private equity.
Speaker: And the reason why I didn't want private equity is because I'm like, they're going to
Speaker: they're going to bring the companies together or however many companies they have.
Speaker: And they're going to try to flip this thing in three to five years again.
Speaker: And then, so it creates a disruption to the employees and the clients again.
Speaker: I'm like, so I don't want that.
Speaker: And my partner does, he goes, so you're looking for a unicorn.
Speaker: And I'm like, I guess, I guess I am.
Speaker: I'm looking for a purple unicorn.
Speaker: And, and so yeah,
Speaker: I was delighted when the decision HR with the deal that we did, they were a company that met all the criteria that I had, which is, and look, whenever you do deals like this, there's going to be bumps in there.
Speaker: Like anybody who's done it, what, you know, we'll tell you.
Speaker: But I know that I, I chose correctly.
Speaker: My partner chose correctly because, you know, they are, they sincerely lived up to like,
Speaker: Of course, the contracts matter, but I tell you what, you really see who people are when you do these deals.
Speaker: I think the company is stronger for it.
Speaker: And I hate the term synergies, but when companies like that come together, it's the hope is you take the best of both.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And you and you and you and you let go of the things that aren't working.
Speaker: And I think we've been pretty, pretty successful with that.
Speaker: But then but then when you get to the size, you know, because I think now we're one of the largest privately held PEOs in the country.
Speaker: I think it's I think we're in the top five.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That also affords you opportunities for master medical plans and all kinds of other things that really weren't there before that you can pass along to clients.
Speaker: So it's pretty exciting.
Speaker: But, you know, it's certainly, look, there's no question that when you do something like this, you know, you're no longer the boss.
Speaker: I didn't have to ask anyone really if I felt like I wanted to do whatever.
Speaker: I would be collaborative, but then to be like decision made.
Speaker: And I loved how quick we were able to kind of do that.
Speaker: And when you get bigger and you do a transaction like this, obviously that changes, but I'm okay with that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I was going to ask you, so how's it going?
Speaker: I mean, the deal was done a year ago?
Speaker: Yeah, almost a year and a half ago.
Speaker: A year and a half ago?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How's it going?
Speaker: It was in January.
Speaker: It's going great.
Speaker: I mean, it is, I think DHR is going to have a very, very long existence in the PEO industry.
Speaker: There's no plan.
Speaker: of selling that company and they won't.
Speaker: And, and it's also, you know, it's all privately held.
Speaker: There's no incentive for, you know, really for them that I can foresee doing it, even though I know that there have been, you know, crazy multiples and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: They're just going to grow and grow and grow.
Speaker: And so it makes me happy that,
Speaker: we did this deal and it's something that I could look at the clients of MBA and say, hey guys, we're actually going to be bringing you more things.
Speaker: And so the things that you're comfortable with, that you like, those are going to stay.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: No, that's great.
Speaker: That is great.
Speaker: And so with all of this, and again, you've been in the industry now almost, I guess, almost 20 years or so.
Speaker: What's your outlook for the industry?
Speaker: I always ask everybody that question.
Speaker: What's, you know, I mean, I always say like, I'm bullish, but I'm paid to be bullish, but I'm bullish based on data.
Speaker: I'm not bullish based on hope, right?
Speaker: But, you know, you're there, you're at the point of sale every day, you know, certainly an MBA and now with this deal.
Speaker: So you're on the front lines all the time.
Speaker: What's,
Speaker: What's your outlook?
Speaker: I think, look, I absolutely think, I will tell you, I mean, I think the outlook and I don't think you've talked to anyone or if you have who said the outlook is negative, I would be more interested.
Speaker: Like, tell me why it's negative.
Speaker: Look, there's going to be, there's always been challenges in the PEO industry from the inception.
Speaker: So there's going to be challenges with government regulation.
Speaker: Government regulation, it's never stopping.
Speaker: However, but to me, I look at it
Speaker: Oh, there's more regulation.
Speaker: Well, okay, so we got to get on top of that.
Speaker: But that's security with our clients.
Speaker: So to me, that's not negative in the outlook.
Speaker: Yes, there's going to be more regulation.
Speaker: If anything, to me, that's more positive because it shows the importance of PEOs.
Speaker: And my goodness, during COVID and everything that we did, there was never a time that I felt
Speaker: Like it was reinforced to clients how important the PEO relationship is with PPP, employee retention.
Speaker: Like, I mean, that's just the tip, but everything changing statewide and federal.
Speaker: My goodness, Napio.
Speaker: And like, and I'll tell you this too, when I first got in, Napio could not have done that.
Speaker: Then there's no way they did not have the staff.
Speaker: They did not have the leadership.
Speaker: Napio, Napio,
Speaker: And Pat, don't get a big head, but like under your leadership, I mean, is formidable.
Speaker: So look.
Speaker: I have a little help.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: It's true.
Speaker: But look, there's also going to be more consolidation in the industry.
Speaker: And I actually, I think that's a good and bad thing.
Speaker: Also, I think it's good when you have companies like DHR and MBA coming together, being able to provide more.
Speaker: to clients and kind of taking the best.
Speaker: But I also think it provides opportunities for smaller boutique PEOs that specialize in a particular kind of area to feel good, like going with a smaller PEO.
Speaker: But I'm super positive about it.
Speaker: And I will also say it's the people in the industry that are able to pivot and change and be creative.
Speaker: We have such, I mean, we have brilliant people in this industry.
Speaker: Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker: No, I agree.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: So the flip side of the question is, what are the headwinds?
Speaker: What do we have to watch out for?
Speaker: Well...
Speaker: Technology is the thing that really concerns me.
Speaker: MBA, when I got in, we used Summit.
Speaker: Listen, we made Summit do all kinds of special, amazing things, and it did not cost very much.
Speaker: I worry about the demands from clients about technology and whether we're able to meet that.
Speaker: Then I also worry about the technology that many PEOs use
Speaker: And it's a large proportion of the PEOs using it and being dependent on that.
Speaker: That's not my favorite kind of thing when you have too many eggs kind of in one basket.
Speaker: So I think the PEOs that obviously depends on the clients that you have, but PEOs.
Speaker: Ignore technology at your peril is what I would say.
Speaker: But I'm not worried about artificial intelligence taking over because there's a huge difference between the HR, the quality of HR that people get
Speaker: at MBA, DHR, when they call and they're talking to an HR, somebody who actually knows their business and can ask the right questions.
Speaker: And a lot of times the clients, when they're asking for HR advice, they don't even know the right question to ask.
Speaker: They're asking the wrong question.
Speaker: You got to ask five other questions and go, oh, wait, now I understand.
Speaker: Well, hold on.
Speaker: You don't need to worry about that.
Speaker: You need to, you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker: So I'm not worried about us being obsolete, you know.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Probably ever.
Speaker: I mean, I just can't see it.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: Somebody said years ago, we keep reinventing ourselves, this industry.
Speaker: And I think that's true.
Speaker: I'm just sort of like lots of different ways of iterations, you know.
Speaker: So two final questions.
Speaker: First, what's your advice to somebody new to this industry?
Speaker: Well, kind of like what I was saying before about, it depends who I'm talking to and how they're in it.
Speaker: But if it's somebody starting up a PEO and going to be a CEO, I'm going to say, well, I mean, what do you know?
Speaker: You better be honest about your strengths and weaknesses and get the right people that you can trust to cover those things that you don't know.
Speaker: Also, I would say, hey, by the way,
Speaker: Have more than one more comp carrier because there have been issues in the comp arena and I've watched it hurt PEOs deeply.
Speaker: And so have other relationships.
Speaker: And then I would also, you got to stay on top of what's happening in the industry.
Speaker: So if you're not a member of Napio, that's a huge mistake because you're not staying current.
Speaker: So stay current on the issues of the industry, but also stay current.
Speaker: on top of the issues in the industries that your clients are in.
Speaker: Know exactly as much as you can about the struggles that they face because then you can better cater what it is that... And I tell you what, it means a lot when you talk to a client and you go, hey, I heard blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: How are you doing with that?
Speaker: That matters.
Speaker: And like not enough people do it.
Speaker: And again, I think it's something you don't fake.
Speaker: And so then I would also say, make sure you have more money than you think you need because it's going to be.
Speaker: But also don't be cheap.
Speaker: Don't pay the vendors that you use well.
Speaker: Choose wisely.
Speaker: Pay your employees well.
Speaker: And if you're in an APO,
Speaker: This is an industry where you can pick up the phone because we don't have such market saturation yet.
Speaker: I think that's one of it, that people are generous with their knowledge.
Speaker: And if you ask a question, they're going to give you the best advice they can.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: It's funny, you're mentioning being able to provide your clients with information.
Speaker: One of the goals of the CEO Forum, I know you came at Stanford.
Speaker: Love it, yes.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: I want you to be someplace in St.
Speaker: Peter or someplace in Bradenton visiting with a client saying, well, you know, I was at Stanford last week.
Speaker: A professor had a really interesting insight into this or that or leadership or strategy or something.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: They look to you to be the provider of- That's right.
Speaker: Of all things.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that, that program, um, I remember going the first year that I went and I was absolutely blown away.
Speaker: I was like, Oh, this, this little college Stanford actually turns out some decent professor.
Speaker: Who knew?
Speaker: I don't know who knew that they actually, um, no, but it was actually, it was incredibly intellectually stimulating.
Speaker: I absolutely loved it, which leads me actually to one more headwind, um, that I think is actually a big one.
Speaker: And it's the changes with the Napio staff.
Speaker: I think, um,
Speaker: Melissa's departure, your departure, Pat.
Speaker: It is...
Speaker: I'm not kissing your butt here.
Speaker: I'm concerned about how that I now believe we will ultimately be in good hands, but I'm so content and happy with what it is right now that that is a concern I have about the future because change is guaranteed.
Speaker: More government regulation.
Speaker: We're going to have to be responsive and be able to pivot.
Speaker: So we need to have the right people in.
Speaker: Yeah, and you know, I've said to everybody, first of all, the team here is strong and has been, and it's an unbelievable team, first of all.
Speaker: The other thing I've said to folks is that the new person has to fit in with this culture, not vice versa.
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: Because they won't last, because there's a very distinct culture here, and you're going to have to fit in with it.
Speaker: And if you fit in with it, your life's going to go well.
Speaker: And I think they will, and it'll be okay.
Speaker: And again, a lot of smart people here.
Speaker: And I can tell everybody, I'm just the arm candy.
Speaker: So, okay, so my last question, I'm going to interject, so give you time to think about it.
Speaker: My last question is going to be, what's something people don't know about you?
Speaker: But while you're thinking of your answer, you mentioned your grandfather.
Speaker: I was very close to my grandfather.
Speaker: He's my best buddy in my little town, which sounds like a lot like your town in Ohio, not like Boca.
Speaker: And he was my pal, and he passed away when he was 95 years old, and then I got sworn in
Speaker: as a member of the National Mediation Board, a presidential appointment.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: My mom and dad came down for the ceremony.
Speaker: And I remember after I took the oath and it was a big deal here in Washington, my mom, it was her dad.
Speaker: My mom came over to me and she said, your grandfather would have been so proud of you.
Speaker: And I said, the difference is he was proud of me before I ever left town.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: And that's your grandfather.
Speaker: That's your grandfather.
Speaker: He was proud of you anyway.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: He saw you graduate from law school, but he was already proud of you.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: No, he's, he's absolutely, um, I know.
Speaker: And I knew that it was massive support and this will actually lead me into something that I think would surprise people is that, uh, during COVID I started, um, I mean, I, I've golfed, um, since I was in high school.
Speaker: Um, and my grandfather is the one who got me in it.
Speaker: He'd let me, he was a hard worker, but he would take off on Wednesdays after afternoon.
Speaker: Cause it was the men's game at the club.
Speaker: Um, and, uh,
Speaker: And he really introduced me to it.
Speaker: And it's something I love so much.
Speaker: So I started playing during COVID because there was obviously lockdown, not much you could do.
Speaker: And I would go to this executive course really close to my house, just nine hole, par three.
Speaker: And one day I ran into another group and it was an older guy named Augie.
Speaker: and his daughter and another guy and became friends with them.
Speaker: Augie is now 90.
Speaker: I golf with him every week.
Speaker: He's 98 years old.
Speaker: He just, and he's out there.
Speaker: He can't, you know, every time he tees off, he's like, I used to be able to hit this 250 yards.
Speaker: I'm like, I'm like, but he can hit it like 150 yards.
Speaker: I'm like, Augie, you show me another 98 year old who can h it it 150 yards.
Speaker: I want to see that person.
Speaker: And he got a hole-in-one last year.
Speaker: I mean, a hole-in-one at 97.
Speaker: Yeah, hole-in-one.
Speaker: Unbelievable.
Speaker: So that's actually one of my favorite times every week, every Friday morning.
Speaker: I'm on the golf course with Augie.
Speaker: So what else?
Speaker: What's something we don't know about Sean McConnell?
Speaker: Other than you married well.
Speaker: We all know that.
Speaker: Oh, my God.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: If I'd never show up without Audrey.
Speaker: I think, you know, I think that I think I'm pretty open.
Speaker: You know, another thing that people wouldn't know about me is that like –
Speaker: And like I still play Dungeons and Dragons.
Speaker: And that that is that is something that, you know, I and I play with and I people won't believe this, but I play with some of the most brilliant people I've ever known in my life.
Speaker: I mean, they're all wildly successful.
Speaker: And and we get together on Zoom like at least every other week.
Speaker: And play for and play for.
Speaker: And so and we have people all across the country and then we'll have guests come in.
Speaker: And it is it's just an absolute blast.
Speaker: And, you know, and some of these people I played with as a kid.
Speaker: And it's just funny to me, like, you know, when you're a kid playing D&D.
Speaker: It's not all that cool.
Speaker: I don't know that it's cool.
Speaker: I don't know that it's cool now, but I will say all those people I played D&D with, they ended up doing pretty darn well.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: It's a great equalizer.
Speaker: It's great, right?
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: Well, thank you, pal.
Speaker: I really do appreciate it.
Speaker: Sean McConnell, president of Decision HR, former everything at MBA, AGC, GC, CEO of MBA.
Speaker: uh yeah i really appreciate the time today and uh you know a long time board member here you were always uh such a great board member you always came prepared uh you're smart you were engaged uh you didn't sleep through meetings like we didn't watch it um and you know always just such a great supporter of of napio and i i really am grateful pal you you made us so much better and i really am grateful and i really do appreciate it so uh
Speaker: Thanks for the time today.
Speaker: This is terrific.
Speaker: We learned a few things along the way.
Speaker: And can you still do wallpaper or not?
Speaker: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: In fact, my wife is like, hey, why don't we?
Speaker: And I'm like, that's a textured wall.
Speaker: We're not way, way too much.
Speaker: I'm like, pick a different paint.
Speaker: We're not doing wallpaper there.
Speaker: That's terrific.
Speaker: All right, pal.
Speaker: Thanks so much for the time today, everybody.
Speaker: Sean McConnell.
Speaker: Great job.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: Thank you, Pat.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Take care.
Speaker: Bye.
