Transcript
Speaker: Hey, Bramon. Hi. What is your favorite line from Logan's Run? I hate outside. I hate it. Never has a line resonated so deeply with me. Oh, I'm the opposite.
Speaker: Completely the opposite. Oh, okay. i Yeah. See ya. What's your favorite line from Logan's run? I'm your friend. I understand we all go crazy once in a while.
Speaker: Is that Francis when he's in the jacquesa? No, it's when he's hunting them down. Oh my God. Yeah, he's trying to he's trying to get it to shoot the runner and he's talking about, I understand you and it's all fine because we all go crazy and I still understand you and I'm your friend and that's...
Speaker: Sort of relatable, sort of like, what are you doing, bud? What's going Okay, this is the first minute of the episode and we've gone deep already. That's hilarious. so You're listening Sisters of the Force, a Star Wars podcast, usually, with me, Branwen. And me, Sia, hello.
Speaker: But this is another journey into wild space. my gosh. It's also episode 40 of Sisters of the Force. Is it? Yeah. That makes me feel even worse that I've only edited two and a half. cut out And for this particular journey into Wild Space, we are delving into a film that we mentioned a few times on the pod. We actually mentioned it in our first ever episode about A New Hope. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I think as we were talking about seventy sci-fi and how A New Hope is like on another level where everything, and I think this sort the main film that popped into our heads was Logan's Run. Logan's Run.
Speaker: As it would. It's always like just out of your mind, you know, just ready to come back. So we thought we'd do a deep dive into Logan's Run from 1976, predating A New Hope by One Year.
Speaker: Yes. And not only that, but we're going to do it with two of our best friends in the galaxy, Ollie and Meg. Welcome to Sisters of the Paws.
Speaker: Woo!
Speaker: I feel like this has been a long time coming. Yeah. We've been doing this podcast for what? sir Eight months? Eight months. Eight months. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Speaker: So one of the reasons we've got you two on is that you two were with me when I watched it for the first time. Yeah. Yeah. Formative moment. Formative moment. I'm trying to remember if it was 2010 2011 or not.
Speaker: i I have no idea. it might it must have been, it might have been 10. Yeah. Cause it's the like first days of our relationship. Yeah. so like new yes That's why I thought you'd remember.
Speaker: um under the all i you ah Before we get into like when you first watch it, we should actually really introduce you properly. Yeah, we should. For the, for the listeners. Yeah.
Speaker: So you two are who I refer to regularly as the musical power couple of London. I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll take it, yeah. So, can you tell us a little bit about what is you do and also about your relationship with Star Wars? Because even though we're here talk about Logan's Run. We're still going to talk. We're going to sneak Star Wars in there, somebody. Hopefully, no. This is a Star Wars podcast. Yeah.
Speaker: So yeah, who who are you? We know who you are, but our listeners don't. So I'm Oli. um I'm a former Padawan of Brandweb. I'd say that's the correct order. Maybe we're always Padawan. Maybe we are. Lifelong Padawan. I don't know. you You've been teaching me more than I've been teaching you lately. I'm Obi-Wan was doing some stupid shit. And he was a master, so who knows? Yeah.
Speaker: that's That's me. So yeah, you are mostly involved in sound is kind of what I'm getting to. Yes, yes I am. Music wise, it's like our history comes from music and music teaching and music tech.
Speaker: You are a sound... do you call yourself? um'm I guess by trade, I'm a mastering engineer. um But I have been delving into Atmos mixing and stuff like that as well. But yeah, I i would describe myself as a mastering engineer, I suppose. Nice. yeah A scientist. That's the wizardry bit that I don't understand. It's really not. Absolute Jedi. It's really not what you think it is. You make stuff a bit louder, a little bit brighter, and then you send it back.
Speaker: It's not rocket science. And then you make it sound more complicated than actually was. And then, you know, that's it. And then invoice them. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Nailed it. It's still mysticism. It's still wizardry. It's still Jedi. I don't care. Definitely. Okay. I'll take it also. Meg, you're more in the music side than the sound side. I am. What kind musical shenanigans are you getting up to these days? This is bit catch up for us as well. Yeah, this is nice.
Speaker: Yeah, so I was brand new student and then ah nobody else has quite met the mark, truthfully. have second night that yeah shall be second um like can blush So i've just been I've just been looking for my next mentor in London.
Speaker: And I'm funny about on the cello and I sing and I... well She says, underplaying her vast skills massively. I think I'm coming into this feeling just generally wildly underqualified because my entire relationship with Star Wars is through Oli, so I'd never seen it before we started dating. I mean, that's the podcast itself. I do regularly sing the Mandalorian soundtrack in my head because I think it's 10 out of 10. it's quality but also because obviously i'm i wanted to be a diligent student for you once again was like i'm gonna write gonna write notes while we watch local store and i just opened them and it just says cats call asparagus that's an introduction to me yeah amazing I love that. have you all watched Logan's Run?
Speaker: Today. Meg, had you seen it before? Well, yeah, watched it with Ollie and Zia. Yeah, we all watched it together. Okay. But I was trying to think about this because it was actually halfway through watching it today, i went, did we actually manage to watch this? Because I think well yeah it was our second attempt, wasn't it We definitely did watch it in the end. We did, but I think the first time me and Ollie tried to watch it together and the disc didn't work. So for those days when Netflix was a post you a DVD into your door and the first disc they sent me didn't work. So I had to send it back and be like, it's corrupted. it doesn't work.
Speaker: Watching today, there were some bits that was like, i don't I haven't seen this before. we're probably chatting. I think we might not have been paying the most attention. That is possible. I remembered last scene and that was about it. Yeah, I remembered like a bit in the middle of the last scene. It really had an impact.
Speaker: That's cool. It's fresh today. It's fresh in your mind. Yes, yes, yes. The only bit that I could actually remember was them going into the ice cave for the first time and then going, wait, we should take our clothes off first. And I think i think that was an inside joke for such a long time. Because every time one of us said, wait, the other one would say that. And then that one, like, it just turned into a running thing for about six months. That's dangerous catchphrase. so And we were the only three that had seen it in the friend group as well. So it was just like... What is going on there? What is going on?
Speaker: It was such a niche thing. So yeah, shall we let's introduce the film. So I presume if you're listening to this, well I'm not going to presume anything. If you're listening to this podcast episode, you're a follower of Citizens of the Force, you're into your Star Wars.
Speaker: I hope. But you may or may not have seen Logan's Run. And the reason we're doing this is because we mentioned this in our very first episode way back when. And we also mentioned it about eight episodes ago when we were covering season three of Mandalorian and the episode Guns for Hire, which is the Jack Black and Lizzo episode. Have you seen that episode, Ollie and Meg, by the chance? Yeah.
Speaker: No. It's a wild ride. It's unbelievably wild, yeah. Season three Mando. Mando, yeah. It's called Guns Fires, about episode six, I think. And it's got Jack Black and Lizzo.
Speaker: What? Mando has changed since the last time I saw it. When did we stop i which I think season two, I think. I think we might have done season two. Yeah, yeah. yeah Season two is Grogu. Yeah, yeah. It's a good, it's a wild season. You need to carry on.
Speaker: Season three is wild. It goes all over the place. Tonally, story-wise, everything. But this episode has got, Jack Black and Lizzo play these kind of royal royalty. Jack Black's an ex-Imperial who's like reformed, you know, and is trying to pretend to be the good person. Jack Black could never be Imperial.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, it's completely bizarre. As soon as you see him, you're like, na I don't know, it's quite good. He does it in that way of like, I kind of... Kind of believe you? Yeah, he's kind of being a bit...
Speaker: He's bit shady. Yeah, he's a shady character. Lizzo is a lot more, like she's the sort more honest of the two. But they're living this very hedonistic life in these domes on this planet. Oh, right. That sounds That's a direct callback. There's like a droid malfunction thing. yeah Mando and Bo-Katan go on like a monorail thing, yeah which is just like the monorail.
Speaker: yeah It's definitely callback episode. So I think at that point we were like, we have to do this. But i think we'd already decided with you two, we've had a WhatsApp group about this episode for a very long time. yeah Should we check when that first message we've sent? Is that the kind of thing we do? Yes. I reckon it is about like the time when we started podcasting. Maybe did I didt message you after, i think I listened to the New Hope episode. Yeah. i said yeah And I guess, reading between the lines, I was instantly jealous. I need to talk about something. Well, you're always welcome on Sisters of Force. So Logan's run, 1976, this came out. It's based on 1967 novel. So novel had come out nine years before by two authors, two authors collaborating on the novel. That's quite wild. it Doesn't happen very often.
Speaker: How much before? Nine years. Nine years. nine years yes That's interesting as well. that It's not like, I know, I would have thought some old, old novel adaption of something like super established, but to exist for nine years then make a film out of it, that's kind of surprising. There was also talk of a remake and they never did it. Yeah, I think there still is. Although there was one with going to be Ryan Gosling, I think, but I don't think that ever got off the ground. okay But yeah, the the film was in production for quite a lot of those nine years.
Speaker: They decided to make it almost straight away, but it kept going through different directors and different budgets and people with different visions of it. Because obviously it's not the same as the book. They made some fairly crucial changes, such as the age of being carouseled. Well, in fact, the carousel wasn't even in it. You just went off quietly and kind of anesthetized in the shots. And that was the end of that. It was at the age of 21 in the book, because they wanted some big name actors like Michael York, who was already in his 30s. They needed to change that story. 21's wild. And then you're just making Peter Pan, aren't you? So you can't be doing that. Yeah, it was like this whole thing about young people trying to govern themselves. And yeah, I had a very...
Speaker: It's got very different tone than it being 21 or 30. Yeah. Yeah, that really changes things. The bit that we see with the cubs when they go out into the cathedral area where it's all wild and very dystopian, I think that's more the tone of the book in a way. That's quite interesting. So, yeah, they wrote it and then eventually got Sol Deva producing it who took over from somebody else I can't remember. Terrible research. LAUGHTER And this screenplay by David Zulag Goodman.
Speaker: think he obviously had to make some difficult decisions. But yeah, there are obviously various practical reasons about that, but also just story reasons. And that the whole like ending in the book, the sanctuary exists and it's on Mars. But because of like budgetary restrictions of trying to then... Get into Mars, it's expensive. We can't fly all these actors the mars Yeah, no way. No chance.
Speaker: I've seen people on YouTube and elsewhere on to Interweb saying that they preferred the idea of that going to Mars, but I actually liked the thing of it not existing. and Yeah, for sure. It all feeds into the whole conspiracy of everything. How are you going to make a computer completely malfunction and blow up an entire city if it exists?
Speaker: Yeah, if Mars is real, yeah. I mean, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, well, then they have to go back? Or do they never go back in the book? Do they never then go back to the city? Do they stay in Mars? I don't know. I don't know. We're going to have to read it. think we are. We're going to have have a book episode well.
Speaker: Before we started recording, Sia, you said that it made you want to read the book. and Yeah, I kind of wish I had. i Yeah, I don't know. I like to read book versions of things before I watch film versions of things when possible.
Speaker: But my attention span is terrible. So, you know. LAUGHTER I have to say, I felt like the story was really solid. It didn't feel like a book adaptation where they completely you know annihilate the story and you're left with something that doesn't mean anything. I felt there's a lot of themes and a lot of meaning. and ah I think that maybe they captured what the book was trying to get at, but in a way that is cinematic.
Speaker: Adding the carousel was a clear directorial choice or adaptation choice because it's a big spectacle yeah to start the film with and end the film with as well. And it's terrifying. Yeah. It's terrifying, yeah. Whereas just a single person going in to be anaesthetised on your day, on your last day, it's like, yeah, in a book, that's dark and meaningful and painful and whatever else. But visually, like having people doing wire work and explosions. And wearing spandex flames on. the spandex flame spandex did want some of that that's quite fun okay all of the wardrobe before we even get into the rest of the film we can't really go very far without talking about the wardrobe costumes or lack of in places isn't he the first person to get a credit when the credits come up at the end isn't it like he is costume designer what's his chops
Speaker: I thought that was generous. Well, it's it was a real visual aspect of the film. like There's this whole thing about they're selling, not hedonism exactly, but like luxury and being able to indulge yourself and being able to be the individual that you are. And yet everyone is doing the same thing and dressing the same. You have to have a uniform and you have to yeah conform to all of this.
Speaker: yeah Did anyone twig that the costumes were colour-coded? Yes. Yeah. It was just me then who was very, very slow off the mark. I watched it about five times in my life. i was my notes together today and i was like, my God, they're wearing red and green and yellow and that's what kind crystals go and I'll come on brand new. They even call them red ones. They call them reds and greens. Yeah, and greens, yeah. Ollie sets a challenge in the middle of the film. I can't remember exactly what you said. what was it? I said um I was looking out in the background for any green men that were with red women rather than men girls. Rather than the other way around. Yeah, there were no old women, young men at all. It was all, which, you know, feeds into quite a lot of themes of the film, I think. Yeah. yeah But yeah, I couldn't see one.
Speaker: Very interesting. yeah Yeah, because it was always either Reds Together or... Yeah, or Redmen, always. Yeah, that makes me quite cross. They're green side pieces with them, you know? Which, yeah, makes sense. So this was directed by Michael Anderson, who was a big director in the 50s. He directed Damn Busters and Around the World in 80 Days. And interestingly, version of 1984, which I didn't even know existed. Wow. Because this is not 1984-ish exactly, but it's got that same utopia slash dystopia thing. It's a vibe. I kept thinking Blade Runner quite a lot times watching it, like some of the more bits of it.
Speaker: And I completely psyched myself out when Blade Runner came out. I didn't even like, was that like a No, early Well, there was one in...
Speaker: the 2000s which is the 2010s i loved it but i did have a tactical nap because it's very long quite so moving as is the first one and in a way not not to critique because they are both a amazing both visual spectacles great stories i watched that when i was far too young to watch that don't know whose decision that was but there go Incidentally, I did watch this when I was way too young as well. I think it was in the mid-80s, so I'd have only been about 12. And there was a series of like vintage sci-fi, although back then it wasn't that vintage. It was only like 10 years old. But there was this and Silent Running and Dark Star, some of the other sort of 70s movies. And me and my mum watched them all. so But it's a PG. this is it It's a film. Wild.
Speaker: wild Which is wild. Which blows my mind. Every time I watch it, I'm like, wait, what? I suppose there's nothing like... There's nothing too graphic on screen, but apart from nudity, I guess, but... Nudity is the only thing, yeah. Yeah, nudity is the only thing. Yeah, but the themes of it dark. I wonder if it feels more... Yeah, wonder if that feels darker now. Because of where we are? Yeah, because of where we are. But also in good and bad, so culturally, I'm 34, and...
Speaker: And I'm sitting here watching that film and it occurs to me, are there any old women with the young men? it So to me, that's like, well, this must be more than a PG because that's outrageous. So this must be more than a PG because that's insane.
Speaker: But probably in 74, 76, whatever, you weren't having the same thought. You weren't having that same thought pattern. So that that cultural juxtaposition isn't such a thing. And then also obviously the the content maybe feels different now. I don't know. But then I was also thinking about it in terms of when we watched it the first time, we would have been 17, 18, 19.
Speaker: And like, I remember thinking that 30 was so far away. Yeah, right. We've all gone now. We've all had it. We don't exist in this world anymore. We've all had our last day. Yeah, right.
Speaker: We've all got people touching our face. Last day, Capricorn 15. Year of the city, begins. twenty two seventy four my carousel begin She's quite scary, isn't she? You'd have already had that. Love it. You'd have already been done. I am obsessed with that voice, whoever that is. She's great. So sulky. Identify. It's just like really soothing, but also terrifying at the same time. yeah There's someone in Blade Runner who's quite similar, isn't there?
Speaker: yeah Yeah. Is it the the um the Android woman? The Android woman, yeah. Did you clock... the lady asking Logan to identify afterwards saying that he was Logan couple of times. It's like, Logan, please sit down. who Who are you? But I think the identification is using the crystal. yeah isn't's It's like an actual act. It's not just saying, yeah, I'm Logan. It's like getting your ID out kind of thing. It's crystal.
Speaker: Scanning your passport. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I'm just going to like jump back to what you were just saying, Ollie, because we keep saying we keep circling around the same thing which I wanted to talk about, which is this thing about relationships and like what it was like in 1976, or even in 67 if we think about when the book was written. I don't know if this would have all been in the book.
Speaker: But there's the scene where Logan is basically using like a dating app to pull somebody through the system. Yeah, wow. Which I remember blowing my mind as a kid, apart from Jenny Agata just being ridiculously hot. But then she steps up. No, actually, that the first person he calls up, because it seems to be like a random thing. It's not even like, oh, you have a match. Well, she said, I put myself on the circuit. So they're putting themselves there. Yeah, they choose to go in. It's like blind.
Speaker: yeah Blind dating beaming them into your living room. And yeah there seems to be no filters because he gets a guy first of all and he sort of just turns it down. Like with no fuss, he's no like, oh my God, there's an error in the mistake. Which for 1976 made me think, oh, that's pretty cool. That's pretty progressive. And then she comes out and she's he says, are you interested?
Speaker: Like, is it because you don't want to have sex with me because you're interested in women? You must be, and he's right? That's the only reason. Michael York, yeah. Why earth? What's going wrong here? Well, I guess his point is like you've put yourself on the system for a reason. That's clearly suggesting that the system is like you just want like some cheap, low down and dirty good times. But yeah he says that he's seemingly indifferent to the fact that she might be interested in women, which again is a nice little thing about that. But...
Speaker: but I only realized again today when I was looking through my notes, it's all ruined in a way when they get to the end and and like it turns out that all Jessica is looking for is the beloved husband, beloved wife thing. yeah And it's like so it's placing the city then, the dome city, as being like Sodom and Gomorrah, where all this terrible stuff is happening and the whole point of the film is like the sanctuary is the outside world and you know, nature and all that, which is beautiful.
Speaker: Good American values. it's Killing Francis with the American flag. Yeah. Literally Washington DC, which again, I don't think I've tweaked until this time around. And I was like, oh, it's the White House. He's in the White House. He's in the White House. Yeah.
Speaker: It's pretty wild. This kind of feeds into the whole like, because it's a hedonistic place. It's a pleasure dome essentially, isn't it? They're all meant to be. Oh yeah, literally. It's a pleasure dome. Isn't the pleasure dome... basically like 60s and 70s hedonism of like youth culture, the outfits and the sleeping around, whatever. Like, is it a metaphor youth culture of the 60s and 70s? Of the 60s, yeah, more than the 70s. I feel like the 70s were a bit more, they were a bit of a pushback to the end of the 60s because the end of the 60s,
Speaker: God, we're going down your social, cultural studies. The end of the 60s was a lot more hedonistic with like the LSD thing and the whole kind of free love and flower power and summer of love and all that, which wasn't as real as it we think it was, I think. We're looking at it literally in rose-coloured spectacles or whatever, but that was a theme of the 60s when the Beatles changed their career and all of that stuff. So then there was a bit of pushback in the 70s and everything got a bit more conservative again.
Speaker: So, in a way, the film is sort of flashing back to that, but also it really projects forward into what happened in the 80s, because the 80s is where where we are now kind of started this journey down the kind of like, we can have anything we want on demand, which... Like why people are unhappy these days just gets me so angry and there are some very unhappy people out there because like we have got literally whatever we want. It's ridiculous. We're living in those times and yet people can't cope with. People can't cope with whatever they want. People looking bit different. don't whatever I want. It's that toddler thing, isn't it? I want you to not have what you want. Yeah, yeah. which isn't in this film but yeah you know it's kind of boiling down to these values and beloved husband beloved wife thing it could have gone further with that and we've got this whole like the scene of the love shop is quite distressing and like yeah yeah and it really pissed me off Because I was like, that's not what it's like. So it's still kind of demonising sex positive people in a lot of ways. Yeah, for sure. And I was just like, but this is a pleasure dome. This is what it is. So in one way, they're not horrendously homophobic, but in another way, they are still kink-shamey, sex negative people.
Speaker: The filmmakers are, not not the characters in the film. The characters in the film are sex positive and free and everything else. yeah But the filmmakers aren't. Like in that bit... all the men go to Jessica and all the women go to Logan. Yeah, exactly. like It's so it' so binary like that. yeah how was And it's shot with like full red. yeah Everything's lit in violent red. And they might say passionate red, but it's pretty violent. When you put it with the music, the music is terrifying. Yeah, Meg, you made that point. really ominous. Yeah, when we were watching...
Speaker: Shall I tell them or do you? No, no, go ahead. I'll screw for you. Don't worry. I actually don't know what I said. I'm still really on the cat called asparagus thing. It's really, that's really fast. Don't be worried about the cat. What did say?
Speaker: i say Meg made the fantastic point that anything hedonistic is electronic. So it's all the weird synths and stuff. so never Oh, yeah. Like anything within the dome is like yeah electronic and then anything as it starts to expand out gets more orchestral. There's certain points where he like begins his run and that's when we start hearing orchestral things. Violins and stuff, yeah. At first it's blended and then when they get the sun sunrise scene or sunset, where from whichever way around it And then it's the theme from...
Speaker: A new hope, right? Yeah. Pretty much. so would but we basically got to the point where we've got to talk about the music because we're all music people. If you're listening to the Sisters of the Force, you might not necessarily be a music person, but you know that we are. And it's our podcast and we'll do whatever you like. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker: Especially when we got muso-y guests. I mean, most of our guests are into music, but you are especially into music. And we've talked a lot about music over the years together. We have a massive musical history. have indeed.
Speaker: So this was composed by Jerry Goldsmith, who is, I mean, if John Williams is the godfather of cinema music, then I think Jerry Goldsmith is probably his brother in that sense. Like he's the godfather brother.
Speaker: The god brother. Yeah. I was looking at like his like resume, because obviously I know John Williams' a resume really well because he's Star Wars. so like I've gone down rabbit holes with him a lot, but I hadn't done that with Jerry Goldsmith.
Speaker: i was looking I obviously knew his name, but looking through his resume, and it's like Star Trek, The Omen Trilogy, Rambo, Planet of the Apes, Alien, Poltergeist, Gremlins, Total Recall, Basic Instinct, The Mummy, the current Universal Pictures fanfare.
Speaker: You know, he's just... There's lots of bisexual panic in those ones. Cool. Like it. Yeah, he absolutely smashed it. was trying to find out if he'd had a collaborator on the electronic side of things because the electronic music is wild. Must have done. Must have done. I couldn't find anything. Like those apps and stuff. and Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That is quite alarming. alarming nice so... Like... I can't remember what bit this is. I think it's when they're chasing one of the runners, I think.
Speaker: Analog synths. They're so much fun. It's so beautiful.
Speaker: Oh, no it no, it's the carousel. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say.
Speaker: Incredible. Nice. So before this, the only real massively famous synth score would have Clockwork Orange, which is a nice opportunity to bring Wendy Carlos in, who, yes apart from being a massive synth pioneer, is also a trans composer. So big shout out to Wendy Carlos. Yay!
Speaker: And that is an incredible score. Wild. Wild. I mean, she did the Switched on Bach album, which was at the end of the 60s, sort of demonstrate what the Moog and analogue synths in general could do when applied to classical music. But this score kind of takes it to the next. I've just been zoomed back by like 15, 20 years. 15 years. Wow. That was a proper zoom back to the tech room, yeah. Upstairs at Emily. In our little cupboard.
Speaker: We all know that record. We all know that record. We all that record. I just had real flashback. Aww. That was so nice. Yeah, well, whereas Wendy was lot more like, in quotes, musical, or like traditional music, more like Western classical approach, but just using synthesizers to play those notes and parts, this is more bordering on sound design in places where it's less tonal. We're into like microtones. Microtones, lots of sample and hold stuff going on, lots of arpeggios. Yeah.
Speaker: Lots of letting the letting the synth do what it does. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And like it was scoring, a lot of the time those sounds were scoring moments that you see on screen, which is pretty rare now You don't really get that now, but it was kind of like, yeah like it would score a silent movie. yeah As in like, I'm trying to think of examples, which I can't, but... Like the laser. With the carousel. Or the carousel. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, the new U shop, yeah. And the the love shop scene similarly. Yeah. yeah yeah It's like it could be diegetic music at that point. it It's not supposed to be, but it it kind of could be.
Speaker: And I guess the the choice that you were talking about, Meg, of them using... since whenever we're in the dome or to sort of tell the story of life in the dome is the dome is, quotes, futuristic. It's the futuristic aspect of the film as compared to the the finale.
Speaker: So they're using what was in 1976 futuristic sonic tools to do that. And it's funny watching it now as well, because obviously quite lot of those sounds sound almost vintage. So it almost makes the sci-fi seem like the opposite. then you outside and you like, Definitely. Fairly contemporary classical stuff happening in the orchestral parts and then you're like, oh, it's so modern.
Speaker: I was wondering that about um Star Wars as well. So like having A New Hope in my head being not that far apart. I was trying to think of like, why does A New Hope feel kind of evergreen in a way that Logan's Run doesn't to me. Doesn't use the same analog tech. Yeah, exactly. It's like ah A New Hope is is all a bit from when they come out into the sun. It's all that kind of music. So it's timeless in that way.
Speaker: And yeah you know it kind of helps it. There are lots of other things that Help A New Hope kind of stay up to date. That's so interesting because George Lucas's reason for getting John Williams on board and doing a score like that and not going down the route of synths and electronic music, which yeah thank God he didn't, was was a retro choice. yeah yeah He faced a lot of backlash of the idea of doing a classical score. Everyone was like, why are you not doing like a sci-fi score? interesting And he just wanted to do like 40s, you know, classic 40s movies, live again. Because then they're just they're inherently dateless then, because it's as it always was and as it always will be.
Speaker: Not over a time. A clever way of going about it wonder if that was part of his reasoning. thought that Or whether was doing it from a nostalgic, when I was a kid, I used to watch Flash Gordon kind of a way. Yeah, I don't know what the what would the other precedent have been to make that decision. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I suppose like 2001 used existing classical music. That's a really good reference. But that's the only other one. Like I think all of the sci-fi that was happening in the early 70s was going towards what Rogan's rendered. Like, yeah, doing more. like you so
Speaker: trying to be contemporary. We got a mini Korg in one of the schools I was working in a couple of years ago and I was teaching the kids how to use it. It was like a little patch one and it was so much fun and the kids were just, they loved it, but then they were like, why does it sound like old future? That's really interesting that you've said that because it would have been used to score sci-fi, but in the 70s. So we had got to have that whole conversation with kids who, they were born in 2003. Dubstep. They'd already be dead if it was the book. They'd already be dead. Good lord, yeah, the book. Sorry.
Speaker: Thanks, Meg. Keep light. but Okay, here's a question for you then. Is there going to be a time where analog synths play that same role? Because technically orchestral score is vintage still.
Speaker: Like you're calling it evergreen, Ollie, and i know exactly what you mean. And it kind of is. And maybe Star Wars has contributed to that or John Williams' career. Generally his like high profile work and everybody knows it, you know.
Speaker: But if kids saying they sound old but new, Yeah. That's interesting. like Because analog synths are they're stuck in time. They're never going to change. They're not something that's going to evolve. They they existed for 15 years or whatever yeah and have never changed. And they're still being made. People are still buying them. They keep going through phases of being in fashion. it feels like they've been in fashion for quite a long time now, actually, like for the last 20 years among like and certain genres of music.
Speaker: Like they've kind of gone into indie music and now synth pop is massively back again, you know, and dance music is still using analog stuff. But why in that case, why does this sound old? Yeah. But to me it was the, but the patches were They're just like very like very night noisy. They're noisy. They're very yeah very analog-y.
Speaker: Yeah, like not using... I like the modern equivalent would be like Serum or something, and you're using like wavetables and you're triggering the filter off of the shape of oscillator three or whatever. You're doing that kind of thing. You're using samples to trigger envelopes or whatever. What's that called? The thing with the little granular. Yeah, exactly. So it would all be that kind of thing would be the sound of now. What's that called?
Speaker: um so This literally become a music tech lesson at this point. That might come up in your test, so if I could all write granular down, please. Yeah, imagine. Your assignment. going to say your assignment. Okay, so your assignment is to go and listen to, you'd have to listen to all of it, but go and listen to the soundtrack after this at some point without the visuals. Just listen to the score as ah as like a kind of listening experience to see if you still feel, because I listened to it this morning yeah separately.
Speaker: And it so it was a whole different experience. and Yeah, well, just when you played that snippet just now, that that felt different to me yeah than watching along with it. But also that when you just played it now, it felt like Stranger Things does, yeah which is still like, it but Stranger Things is still using retro sense to date it.
Speaker: So it's still dated, but definitely a different way, for sure. Yeah. But even when he got into the orchestral elements, Jerry Goldsmith used some pretty interesting combinations of styles.
Speaker: I felt like there was still some atonal... There were bits where the string players were using techniques. I had no idea what they were doing. Meg, what were they doing? Wow. don't know exactly what they were. And there was a lot of... This isn't a technique thing, but it was like the whole chromaticism thing of it became like like that main like theme is just so juicy and he does so much with it. So it's...
Speaker: Yeah. Juicy. I like that. I really like it. Yeah, that's the technical term actually. Write that down. Just do it again. I want to play another bit of it, which I think it was either when He was New You getting his face done. i can't remember the other bit that I thought it might be. It's called Intensive Care, the Q. So who knows?
Speaker: um i didn't sort recognize it, but it is very disturbing. But it's not since. And I don't even know what it is. So listen, listen. Go on.
Speaker: All this, all this... It's creepy. I'd love to see the score of this. Yeah.
Speaker: Is that all strings or is it strings and synths? I think it's strings. I think it's strings.
Speaker: I think that string's having a really nice time. That is strings having a really nice time. So cool. Yeah. That reminded me of like the... the Intermediate string orchestra. I'm allowed to say that because I did it for so many years.
Speaker: You should do it a lot of years to be fair. I paid my dues. It reminds me, there's an anecdote about Paul McCartney when they were recording, don't know it's Paul McCartney or Lennon, or it might have George Martin, when they were recording A Day in the Life, and the the finale of that, the kind of orgasmic like rise up through, and and they were trying to get the violin players to like and the cello players to to just start on any note they wanted and go upwards to their highest note or something. i can't remember the exact instruction, but it took them go after go after go after go. And and they're claiming that orchestral players aren't very good at that sort of thing of
Speaker: being improvisational or like doing stuff that's off the page, you know, or following graphic score or whatever. but I'm sure you disagree with that. i do as ah As a professional cellist, I'm sure you've done your fair share of weird noises. I think I've done more weird noises than good noises if like... No, not weird. Good is in the wrong term. of Formal.
Speaker: Structural noises. Formal, polite noises. There's a composer team that I work with and whenever they want that technique of that kind of like sliding, uncomfortable, ominous, eerie, glissandy, lots of strings, they call it Nazgul strings, which is obviously like a Lord of the Rings. Oh. reference so that's what we call it so now we have this shorthand within the ah players that do those sessions where they're like can we just just do a nasgall string here and then everyone just does everyone knows what it is that's clever okay i'm going to jump in here with a complete sidebar okay podcast recommendation if you've not discovered the soundtrack show podcast yet get on it David W. Collins, who's a sound designer, composer, voice actor. He does loads in Star Wars, which is how I know about it. and he's obsessed with John Williams. He's done a lot of like sound editing and scoring and stuff over the years. He did loads of sound design on Skeleton Crew. And he's done stuff on The Mall Show that's just been out recently. Anyway, he does this podcast. And he he does a lot of John Williams because he loves him. But he's also done like a massive six or seven episode thing, I think, about Fellowship of the Ring. And then another one about Two Towers. He hasn't done Return the King yet.
Speaker: But it is so awesome. It's so incredible. So deep. And you'll love it. Because when you see you said Nazgul strings, i was like, yes. Yeah, that's what it is. That's such a good shorthand.
Speaker: I like having shorthands. Yeah, because I'd never know. How would you describe I mean, it's like, well, you described it perfectly before about Glissandy and the... I can tell you how you'd score it if you want me to. Shorthand is much more fun if you're using the same players that you've used before. Lots of squiggles. So many squiggles.
Speaker: yeah That's interesting, though. I don't read score. You don't need to read score if you get squiggles. So much more helpful. I agree. How do we think that he scored the...
Speaker: electronics then and I'm intrigued by that question. I don't believe he actually wrote. yeah I think he probably worked with somebody who was a synth expert and they just probably played around. That's my speculation. Yeah. But then maybe because you said it felt a bit more like a silent film so maybe there was just people playing along to the visuals. Yeah. Possibly, yeah. I mean, a lot of it was really reactive, like seemed really reactive. The stuff that was, and i I don't know this would be interesting to talk about as well, I felt like a lot of the things that were kind of half music, half sound effects. And I was trying to think about, well, it it made me think about A New Hope again also. yeah And then I was trying to think about the original version of A New Hope.
Speaker: yeah How much of that... was as we remember it now then and how much of it wasn't so like do you mean you just blown my brain out that's right i so like i found a lot of the sound effects of logan's run to be not yeah yeah you know not ben burt yeah not ben but exactly number and then what then the kind of weather led me was do I remember Ben Burt being so amazing because he's had 50 years of remasters to kind of make sure that we still hear it in the best possible way like if A New Hope came out there were never any other films that was it
Speaker: Does A New Hope sound as much better than Logan's Run in my memory? Would it still be like that? Yeah, I could have. If you're back in 77 watching New Hope, there's a reason why people were queuing around the block for months on end to watch New Hope and they weren't for Logan's Run and a good chunk of it. there's loads of reasons for that. Not just accessible doom. It was all Ben Burt. No, I mean, like John Williams, Ben Burt was a magician. Like he did, he was the first person, I believe, to have been credited as sound designer. I don't think he was. Walter Murch was. Oh, really? Talk to him, yeah. Fact check. Controversial. I think may have already said this on this podcast, so you're not fact checking ourselves. Thank you so much. He was a pioneer. Let's just say he was a pioneer of sound design. Big time. And it's still, still like reviewed. It's Ben Burt and Walter Murch. They both are. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: But like, you know the ah New Hope blasters, for example, and the doors and the, like at every single iconic sound. Oh, they just sound great. The ships. like it just It all just sounds incredible. And also the visual effects as well. yeah the The visual effects, they've tidied up a lot more since...
Speaker: the first version Europe came out so that again, I was thinking about that and does that change of it? Does that make difference? Yeah, appreciate it but you're right about the mix February next year because it's the 50th anniversary of it it's coming back to the cinema as theatrical cut but I don't know whether that's theatrical audio because that's going to sound odd to us now Yeah, now that will sound weird won't it? Yeah I'd love that, to be honest. Yeah, i would I would love it, yeah, definitely. Just for the experience of it, because like we you know we know what it sounds like now. yeah yeah I knew what it sounded like then, because I was old enough to repeat but I can't remember. Like, my audio perception brain doesn't go back that far.
Speaker: You were too young to have an audio perception brain. Well, yeah. with it, mate. Born with it. Well, obviously. Yeah, my response to the film was more about visuals, I think. Like, I remember being very excited about the visuals. but And the music. I'm sure the music was...
Speaker: but not so much sound design. But the sound design, because it's done so well, you don't notice it. Whereas in this, in Logan's run, you're a sound... There were some good sound effects. There was one really particular sound effect I noted, which was when they're following the runner in Cathedral and Francis is back in like the control center place and they're following on a little compute screen thing and it disappears and there's a little...
Speaker: like buzz and it just goes and it's like a really horrible thing of like this person's now dead it's like fly zapper exactly like that that's another thing that this has got in common with Star Wars is the crowing about death and the kind of getting very trigger happy and very gloaty about celebrating killing people essentially and being terrible aim I'd be having a terrible way. I was like, we know where they got the stormtroopers from. This dome. They're all Sandman.
Speaker: They're useless. They just move straight into the white armour. They're only dressed in the Imperial little outfits. Imperial colours. Yeah, yeah. so Good point. Well made. Hello. But I don't think Star Wars, they were quite so trigger happy in that way. Like that opening scene with Logan and Francis chasing that roller. They are maniacal. Their faces. Francis particularly.
Speaker: yeah Francis especially. Yeah, Francis especially. We went there. I really, really love that as in terms of the story. i I feel like it is a really solid screenplay in that Logan is like that, but not quite as much. And within the first few minutes, they're having in a conversation where Francis is like, why does it matter?
Speaker: and And Logan saying, you know, you don't know, you just assume one for one. That's what we've always been told. Like he's already questioning. He's already got a little inkling of conspiraciness about him. Yeah, but he was sent on an undercover mission, so.
Speaker: Which he he never tells her, right? He's never like, actually, I was literally here to like mess you guys up. Yeah. Just to be clear. And she's obviously just not capable of figuring that out. She finds out at the end.
Speaker: Yeah. Because she's in the interrogation room. Yeah, exactly. I had the same thought. Yeah, and there's nothing. i mean, she doesn't get much of a character arc, that character. There are some controversial deleted scenes, one of which in particular might explain, because she goes from being very mistrustful of him to suddenly being all in, yeah like halfway through the film when they're going through the kind of water sewage thing.
Speaker: And there's a bit missing, I think, where she has a fight with somebody from Sanctuary. Right. And I have a feeling that there's something that goes down there. Because you see it in this film. It cuts from them going down the stairs into the water thing and then suddenly she's completely soaked. Yes. Yeah, Meg noticed that.
Speaker: I haven't the deleted scenes, but I have seen heard somebody saying on YouTube or whatever somewhere that it's possible that there's a bit more of a story arc for her within that. Also, slightly tangential. Yeah. i don't know. Her character was sort of already in the conspiracy.
Speaker: so she's... not necessarily there to to have an arc. She's kind of following yeah her trajectory, which is she's already part of the Sanctuary Conspiracy and she wants to get out. But then she it's the her not having a reaction to him being an undercover cop, but also because I wasn't convinced by him. like How much of this is he doing because he believes in it and how much is he doing because he's an undercover cop?
Speaker: And like just left ambiguous, really. Like that thing at the beginning, he is questioning. He doesn't... He's the perfect Sandman to send on this job because he's already got this thing. Whether the computer knows that... Yeah, why did the computer send him on the job? Because he bought back the onk. Yeah, he used the onk symbol. computer has a lot of information about this already. I feel like there's some bits computers leaving out. was like, by the way, this is an onk thing. This means sanctuary. By the way, if you leave, then you might find it. I don't know. You might find it. And also, I'm going to cut four years of your life. Yeah, certainly.
Speaker: I think that they're already, yeah, they are deep in it. And that's how these horrible computer, who who is controlling the computer, like are the computers sentient? Yeah, we don't even know. It's part of the nature. On the note of ah computers, ah do we think that box... Box, yeah, let's talk about box....undressed all of the people after
Speaker: Did they get naked similarly to the leads previous to being frozen? We should take our clothes off. That's exactly what I was hoping you were going to say actually. Logan's Run is basically a film about a man who as soon as he sees this woman wants to get her clothes off. Because basically the whole thing is like, we take them off now? Should we take them off now? How about now? We should take the clothes off now. He's biding his time. She comes out the system at the beginning and he's like, later, later it's going to happen. It's going to happen. Okay, so there's two things here. One serious one is there's another deleted scene that they're cut because they wanted the PG rating, which has got way more nudity where Box gets them to pose in this nude pose thing and turns them into an ice sculpture. Yeah, see, that kind of makes sense. Yeah. Which is why they've then got their clothes back on all of a sudden underneath their furs. Yeah, wonder. I do like that as well, isn't it? I found that hilarious.
Speaker: So that's that's one element of like, I think Box has got this weird thing. But also, the guy who played Box... Box is just trying to get them naked too. my God.
Speaker: Box is played by Roscoe Lee Brown, who is an African-American. And there's suggestion that he was a precursor to James Earl Jones, who's also an African-American, playing Darth Vader. And they're both playing robots.
Speaker: ah So does he have the Force? No. Is he my Jedi mind tricking? What's going on? He's doing his job, but he loves his job because he laughs maniacally as he's trying to freeze them. Yeah, and is it his job to freeze like a walrus?
Speaker: I think it's his job to get the food to preserve food. So he's doing his job. Oh. So the penguins and the walrus is food and seagulls are food. Yeah, because he talks about protein, so he's just like, he's gone a bit nuts. That was my second favourite line. Fish, plankton, sea greens and protein from the sea. That haunted me as a kid for you. Yeah, his job was as like fishmonger basically for the Dome City. So he was going to like gather all the fish and just supply food. But the fish ran out presumably because of the apocalypse and or some other reason, who knows. So the fish ran out. So initially he started freezing walruses and seagulls and things, I think. But then people started coming, he said, which is the sanctuary people. free out freeze their protein and And do you think that they had to be naked in the book? Well, was this like a sex sells situation? I think it's just a weird mid-70s, like, we've got to sell some cinema tickets. Box is persuading them their off. We should get naked and then have a fight and then put our clothes back on. yeah Sounds right. But they might freeze to us. Something that's never happened in human history. Our clothes might freeze to us, so we better take them off.
Speaker: But then put them back on. and There was a thing, i think it was that light era of the 70s where censorship was changing. Because it Jenny Agata, who is, I love her as Jessica. She's an amazing actress, I think. I don't think I met Jessica during that whole film. You didn't meet the real Jessica.
Speaker: Jessica 5? I don't know, Jessica. At least they let Leia shoot some people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had quite a lot of shots of Jessica slipping. and oh yeah, definitely. I'm not i'm not promoting...
Speaker: the character i'm just like her as an action also another point where they pointlessly have clothes and then don't have clothes is they when they find the water they jump in the water in their clothes and then the next scene is like panning back down and now they're naked what do doing you've already jumped in your clothes wait we should take our clothes off put them on the side and then carry on skinny dipping i mean you could argue that it's a so bit about the hedonism thing as well isn't it it's like sort of implying that the dome city as we said at the beginning of the episode like the sexual they're very free about culture is very different yeah it's interesting how they completely like abstract
Speaker: sex from parenthood like yeah completely there and there's that whole thing of being like we are going to completely dissociate the role of mother from any of the women that you're seeing and I think that's one of the things that came to mind when you were saying that in the book it's they're 21 yeah that's that is crazy crazy Yeah. yeah and And like that big thing of, you know, the character that we meet out in the real world and, you know, he has a mother and he has a father kind of thing. And that being like a big part of it. That was quite striking.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. And that she's interested in meeting her mother and and he's like, that's a crazy thing to say. That's crazy. Yeah. Why would you want meet your mother? why Yeah. Yeah. Women. Shut up, Six. not to be too serious but I guess if you're being that flippant with death then you're also being that flippant with birth so it's kind of like you're on the same and it has as little value as each other or as little significance as each other I guess is the point isn't it you're in and then you're out great point that's super interesting yeah good point
Speaker: It's like taking away those big thoughts that people have, you know, like what religion is for and everything else about like what is our purpose and what happens to us after after death, which is a ah part of what some religion is not wanting to generalize or anything.
Speaker: But like if you remove that and then you remove the parent, ah like family tie type thing, you're freeing up people to be, I don't know yeah i don't even know what the purpose of this society is. like Yeah, it doesn't seem to be much of a purpose really, does there? yeah so just like maybe in the book memory yeah yeah maybe we're missing that yeah i do feel like there are things that we've missed but in know in a way it sort doesn't matter because it's just it's more what happens it's like the themes that it deals with like you can't deal with everything in every story i guess no but you can dedicate a good seven and a half minutes to talking about cat names
Speaker: Yes. Okay, so, cats. Cats. We even talked about, yeah, Peter Ustinov, the whole, like, oh, this ah Peter Ustinov is a delight. Apparently loads of his stuff is improv, which I totally get. Yeah, that makes sense. I'd already speculated that. That tracks. So it confirmed on the internet somewhere. I believe that. Yeah, my favourite line of his was when he just, like, taps the guy and just goes, to leave her alone. And I was like, yeah, leave her alone. Yeah, leave her alone. Oh, my gosh. Nothing sadder than a dead fish. Nothing sadder than a dead yeah. And that's really true. Yeah, he's like throwaway vibes. like um my You know, he's just caught like everything. why never much care for my name. Just so gorgeous. yeah But I thought he must have gone completely doolally being on his own. foot
Speaker: like Did they explain why he was on his own completely? um He said he was raised by his parents and then yeah and then they died and then that's that's kind of it. So we kind of assume he's been left alone with his cats since his parents died.
Speaker: But we never find out anything about why was there. why was outside the city? Nope, we find out nothing. And he says that he was always there, so he was like born outside the city. He doesn't have gem. He doesn't have thing. I feel like there's a whole group of survivors of whatever the apocalypse, the catastrophe they call it I think, yeah that survived and just carried on living outside and didn't choose to go in the dome route, and so it's so a point which is possibly very likely to happen.
Speaker: ah apocalyptic event where you get some people who are just like we're going to grin and bear it yeah and make the best of it and some who are like you know what like we just need to make a new way of doing this should we have a quick vote who's going in the dome yeah well it's the ultimate question of the film like if you could go in the dome but you had to die at 30 but you could have all of that luxury and yeah yeah indulgence and i like the cats I'm going Cats. Because the Cats are all named after Cats from Cats the Musical. yeah So then I had to Google when Cats the Musical was made. And then I was like, no, but that's based on T.S. Eliot's 1939 book of poems. So that's where he's getting it from.
Speaker: By that point, a really old reference. That's Easter eggs upon Easter eggs. That's great. So the guy from outside is quoting culture from outside. He's quoting T.S. Eliot from outside. Yeah. yeah is that Is that intentional or are we reading too much into that?
Speaker: No, I'm sure it is. I think it suggests that he's still in touch with human history, I think. Yeah, he's knowledgeable of the world in a way that the dumb people... He's got the books, isn't he? He's got all that poetry. He talks about the Jellicle cats and he talks about... Yeah, he chills out in the White House. He's got everything. He chills out in the White House. He's got asparagus or Gus the theatre cat.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. I bet there is some symbolism to do with cats because the whole thing is symbolism with him being in the White House. You know, like it's not a coincidence that he's there. So possibly the cat's thing.
Speaker: Post-podcast research. come into the studio. so i Was that the cat going in? Yeah, it was the cat. but She was like, I can talk about this actually. Well, the cat's actually leaving now that we're talking about the cat. So that's what all that means. guys know it means. I can't remember the word cat. Her name is actually cat.
Speaker: because Oh, yeah. She's called Kedi, which is Turkish. Which is cat in Turkish, we think. For cat, because we inherited her from a Turkish family. So she is called cat. Oh, that's...
Speaker: Anyway, where have we got to? This whole final sequence, I say it's the final sequence, it's kind of Act 3, I suppose, in a way, once they meet the old man, who I don't know if we ever get his name. No, he's just called the old man. He's credited as the old man. Yeah, because he doesn't remember his name. And he's the Yoda character, I guess.
Speaker: Yeah, well, kind of, yeah. yeah I don't know, just don't think about his name. just always thinking about that i feel like he's a nutty hermit isn't it he is he represents like the true utopia yeah he represents like humanity done right i guess yeah looking at it except he's on his own raising loads of cats He's so lonely, yeah.
Speaker: But I guess, again, it's kind of going back to that thing of what we were saying about like birth and death and the significance of it, because the whole point of his character is that he's lost everything and then all he's got is is the cat and that's like the that's the fundamentals of the human experience kind of thing. that You can't have great joy without great sadness kind of thing. So I feel like that's why his character's so sad, but also so nice. And then he has a really intense social interaction at the end when everyone's looking at him and touching his face.
Speaker: Could you imagine? Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. You haven't seen another human your entire life. And then, well, okay, for however many years. And then you have these two nutters arrive in your village. Who ask if the cracks in your face hurt. yeah as you yeah but Yeah. So they ask to touch the cracks in your face first.
Speaker: yeah And then another one arrives. One of them kills the other one with a flag. And you witness the whole thing. Yeah, Richard. Yeah. The whole symbolism of that. Oh, my God. Yeah. and then And then they take you to like all the people and all the people want to touch your face. That sounds yeah like hell to me. It does sound like hell.
Speaker: I'm still with Jessica. I i hate the outside. back to be I felt like that's something that he played so well like his bewilderment with them but like how he just went along with them and when they asked him to come to the theater he was like well yeah he wants to see the people again and his stories that he was telling as they were going back there yeah I used to fish in this yeah yeah so cool before the fish died ah His reactions, like you were just saying, Ollie, about like when all those people appeared and and come to him and the the youngish blonde lady walks forwards to sort of engage with him, and and he could have really overplayed that.
Speaker: yeah But he just seemed like excited and a bit nervous and just yeah like such a beautiful, soft man. He's more a guy. I think that's remember the last scene, to be honest, from when we first watched it. yeah yeah I remember the like significance of that moment and it being quite subtle. I don't know the rest of it's super subtle, but... Not as subtlety. There is a lot of subtlety in that. There's a lot of acting nuance. There are some moments of of fabulous overacting yeah And I mean it in the most loving, brilliant way. The doctor, I think, gets a special award for coming off the phone. I want to answer all phone calls in that way. yeah so good. He was way over 30 as well. oh yeah I mean, Michael York got away with it just a about. but Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. yeah yeah Logan's got this incredible bit where he goes,
Speaker: it's different now because it's me. This is every conservative person ever when it comes you, isn't it? I love that so much. That's amazing. so I love that for the faults of the film, what though they you know there are faults, it's not be by the bush. How dare you. But the story and the themes and everything, I still go back to it being pretty awesome, the way way it's written more than anything. Does Holly want him to have dark hair because they're all inbred white, light-haired folk? so does she Does she want him to get dark hair because it's like yeah she's craving variety? it's like Is it something she's never had? Interesting. There were quite a lot of brunettes out in the crowds. If you watch the crowds, it's the same people. You keep seeing the same. There's a guy with a really straight fringe. It's like a very 70s looking yeah fringe mother. And he keeps appearing in the background. And I noticed the woman who goes up to Peter Ishtenov at the end, she's in various crowd scenes earlier on.
Speaker: I'm sure they just got all the extras for so three days and did all the carousel and running stuff. and then Is that intentional in terms of because at one point Logan explains that they're all inbred because they're all like a as set pool of people.
Speaker: Yeah. So like is using the same people and that you can go to the body shop or whatever it's called. What do you call it? The body shop. New You. That's different. Yeah, New You. They go to New You and...
Speaker: I don't know, there's like a library of faces that they can use or whatever. Is that that they're using a set pool of genetics? set pool of things. i don't know. yeah I feel it's another commentary on like the individualism versus you're not really individuals. You're being told you can have everything you want.
Speaker: But really, you're just cookie-cut people. Yeah, yeah yeah youre you're individuals as long as you all are the same. yeah To what end? to what end, yeah. What's it all building towards? That's why think, what was the final plan? but The dome.
Speaker: What's the point Is it just survival? To whose benefit is this? Yeah, we never really find out. You never really get the wider context with a scary computer. Is it just what... what what's what's going on what's going on that was a mini tv series that came out after it with different actors in no we're gonna to watch that continue the story so about that there's also a comic i think although i feel like the comic just um tells you the story of the film i think in comic form okay but yeah for tv series i have a feeling it won't give you any more insight oh cool Spoiler alert. I couldn't tell, like, in the nicest way, I couldn't tell how much of ah the benefit of the doubt to give the film, if you know what I mean. as like a
Speaker: It's like, how much how many of these gaps am I supposed to fill? And how much... yeah Like how much have have you not been able to do your full vision? How many of these gaps am I supposed to fill?
Speaker: And how much is just doesn't exist and I'm putting into it yeah or not? Yeah. And i I still can't really work that out. I don't know if you had that kind of experience. I think probably all three of those things. Yeah. yeah Little bit, little bit. There's like snatches from so many other sci-fi things. And I don't know whether they're tropes or whether they are deliberately borrowing from each other.
Speaker: Like there's a a new you is a spa in a futuristic Margaret Atwood novel after the apocalypse. ah They hide out a new you spa in the year of the flood. And that's a place where you can go and change your face. Interesting.
Speaker: And the same with Cloud Atlas has a whole like face body shot, face changing thing in the Somni arc. Is it in Blade Runner? It's in Blade Runner, yeah. Yeah, they have it in Blade Runner as well.
Speaker: So yeah, it's kind of like, who did it first? Where did that come from? Yeah, I mean, 70s sci-fi or just sci-fi generally is a genre. Yeah. Even way back into the mid-1900s where...
Speaker: sci-fi suddenly got really popular and I feel like those tropes are tropes and they are what they are. and Which again, George Lucas just sidestepped a lot of them. yeah because they're not in Star Wars, are they? Because his isn't a sci-fi. It's a space opera. It's a fantasy. It's not sci-fi.
Speaker: Are there any other things that people wanted to get into or or are we kind of, have we gone as far as you can go in Logan's run? i I mean, I want to make the point again that Leia is so much cooler than Jessica.
Speaker: and like Yeah, yeah that that's undeniable. yeah an asset of like and i don't know like Is it another thing that gave New Hope more longevity and scope and whatever that they go into Leia's room and she's like, you're a bit short for a Stormtrooper. like is that Is that important for a kind of rounded story? Yeah. In a way that the Logan doesn't just doesn't feel like him. It's why it's held up better, isn't it? Yeah, is it just kind of part of like why it's...
Speaker: I don't easier to root for and then easier to keep alive and easier to be more part of our consciousness for a longer period of time. The event gives it significance. Like how much it how much is a significance attached in re or retroactively and how much of it is kind of active, like that that kind of thing. I was thinking that a lot.
Speaker: And totally, yeah, she is ah big part of that. Whereas you could say Jessica is kind of a passive character. Big time. Like we were saying, she doesn't have that arc. She's very passive. Yeah. Like she comes out of the Tinder portal and just like hopes that no means no in a utopia, you know, just like, that's not, that's not a good start for a character, you know, it's, it's, it's awful really. is awful Yeah. And she like comes out and she's like, I don't want to have sex with you.
Speaker: And then it has sex with him at the end. So it's like that one moment where I was like, oh, this is like a person with autonomy. And then she's like, ah, f*** it. Yeah, I'll f*** it. It's fine. We'll actually, I'm ready now. Let's do this. Yeah. Decides she likes him without like, I don't know. Like, why do you like him? Who are you? Who are you? What are his redeeming qualities? What is happening? What is this? What specifically is attracting to this person? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Speaker: Apart from the very aesthetic Ripsa's costume as it goes on. And Jessica's skirt getting shorter and shorter. She just keeps losing bit. Just less and less clothes. By bit, by a bit. And for the amount times they do take their clothes off and put them back on, she just needs to have a slightly less every time.
Speaker: It's not much point here. I want to do a quick shout out to the painted sets when they do get outside because they are beautiful. Yeah, they The painted backgrounds. The visuals generally, like they used a combination of enormous sets ah in Culver City, like in the MGM studios. But they also, because of budget, they shot loads in Texas. They shot in Dallas in a shopping mall to get that brutalist architecture thing at the beginning, you know the kind of main mall.
Speaker: is like an actual place and then Fort Worth Water Gardens which is the bit with the end with the old man and the sewage plant in El Segundo so they like used a combination of places but somehow it does all feel like legit and I think as well like even from the first scene like even though the the costumes you know there's kind of like juvenile quality to it and that it's like you know the kind of primary colours and everybody's sort of wearing the same thing but it's just like immediately even with those things from the first scene, you're immediately just in this slightly naive visual world that like makes all of the scary stuff even more kind of ominous. And it is super consistent all the way through. It's really like striking. Yeah, those colours and like the soft fabrics and the wraps the satins, and it's quite sexy as well, i get especially off the seventy s fashion. But then when...
Speaker: the carousel people take back their hoods and they've got the skull masks and the infamous flame. It's so creepy, isn't it? really enjoyed the the big gasp as if this was the first last day. It seems like this maybe happens every day, but everyone everyone's like, what a great point.
Speaker: And also talk me through that green room experience. What's that green room experience of getting into these like skin tight things? Yeah. And then they're like on the count of three, one, two, three and hoods off. Okay. One, one two,
Speaker: Yeah, they must do rehearsals. like Probably a good part of your last year is taken up with dress rehearsals, surely. And like the kind of pose you need to take as you're being sucked up into the air. Learning to do those acrobatic wires must take ages. They're practicing flips in the background of one of the shots when Francis is in the jacuzzi, so maybe that is like last day training. They're like, practice your lips. Oh my gosh. I didn't see that. They're doing flips in the gym. I need to watch it again now. The last shout out I would like to give is the weird, slightly imperial looking, creepy interrogation room with all the lights and the clicks. yeah What is that interrogation? It's incredible, but it's ah with a hologram really scary. The hologram heads. So it's like yeah he's not talking, but the computer's bringing this information out and putting it on show yeah to them all. That's really scary, isn't it? Creepily playing it slowed down. What? And not agreeing with the answer.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. That's the crazy thing. Like, it seems like it's reading his mind, but they're not agreeing with the answer that's coming out. So and he's not lying either. It's not like we know that he's lying and he's resisting the force and then, and then he's beating them. It's like, you know that he's telling the truth, but the truth makes the machine explode.
Speaker: yeah How crazy is that? Right. That that it tells us about the, yeah. Tells us the like, how does it work? Yeah. How's it working and why is happening? Yeah. The truth is super destructive. Yeah. And also I love that he has a sneaky little manic face just before that, before they catch him, before the interrogation, and he's up on the balcony going, you can live in the most hammy way possible. moment He didn't nail that, I think. He's trying to upstage Peter Stenhoff at that point. There's only going to be one Oscar nomination for this film. Spoiler alert, I don't think it was. That hologram was the first hologram of a person
Speaker: Was it? What? Yeah, because is actually holograms. They got a holography expert in. wow. This guy called Chris Outwater, who was a genius. And yeah, they made a hologram of Michael York and shot it. So it's practical. That's so cool. Wow, that's cool. That's really cool. And who would have thought ABBA would be just 15 years later? LAUGHTER Sammy, we're hurtling towards our own dystopia utopia. Hang We've been doing that for a while. Meg doesn't have a hologram, so there we go. Chris paved the way to let me be choral avatar. It's a full circle moment.
Speaker: Love it. Who knew? Thanks, Chris. Oh my gosh. What ride. Thank Ollie and Meg, so much for a getting through the movie again. I'm
Speaker: We'll be your Star Wars. We can that. I'll just go... Next door while you it. Listeners, thank you for coming on this Logan's Run.
Speaker: but run we had a little run yeah Don't forget that you can follow us. On all the things. Yeah, we're on Insta quite a lot, quite active on Insta. A bit on Facebook, TikTok.
Speaker: think we've got 30 followers now on TikTok. Yay! Boom. And Blue Sky occasionally. And obviously you can follow us on YouTube and your podcast app of choice. And don't forget to give us a five star review Apple or Spotify. Do all the things. All of those things. Oh my gosh. We're coming back next week. We're coming back next week, but we're not we're not back in the Clone Wars yet. no We're doing another Journeys into Wild Space, which is a slightly CL-led Journey into Wild Space. you're all f***ed.
Speaker: um You can go. no, no, that's staying in. the street now Should we tell them what it's about? no okay. you Just wait for that to pop up in your inbox on Monday morning next week and, yeah, get ready. I'm trying to think what it is now. ready.
Speaker: Wow, what that be? I'll turn you off, Mike. Yeah, we'll see you then. Thank you so much for listening. Until next week. Bye.
