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From Call Center to the Boardroom: Ash Barrett’s Journey to Engineering
95 Plays5 months ago
In this episode, Henry Saint-Juste interviewed Ash Barrett, a Solution Architect who has mastered the art of building enterprise applications at scale. Ash’s journey is nothing short of inspiring, starting in a call center at Nationwide Insurance and rising to prominence as a key figure in their engineering team.
Ash shares how their firsthand experience as a representative sparked the creation of a groundbreaking software co-pilot—long before the age of AI assistants—that revolutionized the way call center reps worked. The impact was so profound that it caught the attention of Nationwide’s executives, who quickly realized Ash’s talents were better suited to engineering than answering calls.
Tune in to hear Ash’s unique perspective on bridging the gap between front-line challenges and technical solutions, the lessons learned along the way, and advice for those looking to transition into tech from unconventional beginnings. This episode is a testament to the power of curiosity, innovation, and believing in your potential.
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Transcript
Believing in Possibilities
00:00:24
Speaker
In order to understand what this podcast is all about, you need to do something first. You need to believe that all things are possible.
Henry St. Just's Journey
00:00:37
Speaker
My name is Henry St. Just. My story is pretty simple. I am an immigrant. I am an Afro-American. I went from college dropout to software architect.
00:00:51
Speaker
And you can too.
00:00:59
Speaker
All right, all right.
Introducing Ash Barrett
00:01:01
Speaker
Welcome to Degree Optional. My name is Henry St. Just, your host. And to- today we have Ash Barrett. Hey Ash, how you doing today?
00:01:13
Speaker
Doing good, Henry. How about yourself? I'm doing well. First and foremost, thank you for accepting this invitation to to come on the podcast. um Can you tell our listeners more about yourself and who you are?
00:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And again, just glad to be here to be able to take part in this discussion. um My name is ah Ash Barron, and right now I work for NetJets Aviation. um I've been recently promoted as a solutions architect in the first quarter of this year. But before that, I was a lead software engineer for about five and a half years, two of which is is with NetJets. I'm still wearing a hat, but prior to that, I was with another large organization.
00:02:08
Speaker
Awesome, awesome. um What led you to pursue a career in tech?
Career Switch to Tech
00:02:17
Speaker
So, well, I've always had an interest in software engineering as far back as high school. um But when I went to college, I ended up choosing a business degree and ended up working in various careers, wild careers like sales, leisure and hospitality, retail management, accounting, um and insurance, ah particularly in customer service. um But it was,
00:02:45
Speaker
In my accounting role, which was at a small ah medical supply company back in Virginia, when I discovered the power of tech and what it could do for me, and that's when it started to become really attractive. um So, for instance, an example, when I was in the accounting role. um ah It took me about three days to do like a very tedious ah accounting task and I was just sick and tired of it and I was just bored out of my mind. So um because I played around with computers um when I was young and I'll talk a little bit more
00:03:23
Speaker
about that um in this conversation. um I picked up some problem-solving skills and I had a knack of knowing how to communicate
Automating Workflows
00:03:32
Speaker
with computers. So I did some research on how I can automate this process because I just hate working. So you could kind of say I'm lazy and and it's funny because I spoke to quite a few software engineers and Some of them have said the exact same thing, and that's what made them do coding. um So I took that three-day process and you know shrunk it down to about a few hours within ah within one day, um which was huge. and um And man, was my superiors super happy. um And so I was having fun, real fun for the first time.
00:04:11
Speaker
and And I felt like I was actually contributing high value, real value to an organization.
Nationwide Insurance Experience
00:04:18
Speaker
um So that's where it really is started to launch that desire and that awareness that technology was going to be the ticket.
00:04:31
Speaker
um And so finally, I ultimately left that organization because there was really no space for pursuing tech. And I decided to join Nationwide Insurance at a call center located in Lynchburg, Virginia. And I started out in customer service, and I was really concerned about doing a good job. And so I thought to myself, hey, tech worked for me at that medical supply company. Let me try that again.
00:04:58
Speaker
And so I did and I wrote like a simple program to kind of guide me through the calls with policy holders and agents. And it was a success and leadership found out and started to give me more tasks when it comes to you know writing code to help make
Realizing Engineering Potential
00:05:18
Speaker
the process of the call center more efficient. And eventually I got recruited by Nationwide IT. t So that's how I got linked into tech. So I guess it wasn't necessarily a pursuit. It's almost like it pursued me in a sense and I discovered it and then I just fell into it. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I could see that. Going back to what you were saying. So from the first company that you were with and you started automated,
00:05:51
Speaker
and then saying that you were lazy. I feel the same way. when When I'm building something and it's like a repetitive task over and over and over again, i I start to think, the wheels start turning in my head, you know, how can I make this process? um How can I?
00:06:07
Speaker
a short circuit the process so that way it doesn't take me this long time. I can tech improve it. That's awesome. it's It's good that your mind went there, but I wanted to know, um or our listeners also want to know, um is did you take any courses to to be able to write those scripts and programs?
00:06:30
Speaker
No, no, I just started studying or researching on the internet. um and And I found this tool that was written by this guy in in Israel that it was a dot .NET library that had the ability to hook into Internet Explorer. Back then, Internet Explorer was really dominant.
00:06:58
Speaker
and use that to drive ah the actions that were happening within a particular web application. And so I just studied the heck out of that library, leveraged that, and used it to perform a lot of my tasks because a lot of it was data entry and it was SaaS products that were being used.
00:07:21
Speaker
um And so I use that technology to basically pull the data from a PDF file, um have it basically comb through it, extract the actual data, and find the data that is required, perform calculation, and then go ahead and um populate those fields and submit.
00:07:41
Speaker
So if you can just imagine mainly having to read through documents or remittance statements and then having to doing like hundreds of them. And that's all you're doing. Now I have the computer just just combing through it itself in seconds, deploying or populating those fields in seconds and hitting submit and then going to the next set of documents and doing it again and again and again. So I just sat back, relax, drink some coffee and just watched it. So it was pretty cool. That's awesome like my head like when when you're explaining this I'm thinking first my head started going towards like ah Before it like web extensions where were cool. You were building those. That's what my head went Then as you as you talked and talked about it some more then I'm like, huh So before co-pilots were even cool you built a co-pilots for yourself. That's pretty neat
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, the co-pilot for the accountant. Yeah. yeah um So when did you first realize you were and an engineer? Man, so that's that's really cool, because um even then, at that moment, I didn't think I was an engineer. No, not even close, because I thought those were the real McCoy's. Those were the the real all-stars.
00:08:59
Speaker
um you know so But I first realized when ah Nationwide Technology basically ah recruited me and got offered me a position as a mid-tier engineer. And this was with their customer service and billing, at least that's what it was called at the time. Now it's been renamed to servicing um the vision of Nationwide Technology.
00:09:26
Speaker
And really, that was the first time I worked in an enterprise IT t organization. I never before had the opportunity to do that. And it was awesome. I mean, prior to that, I was in the business side. They were giving me all these different projects. They even created a new position for me that was just so that I can just continue to build stuff to make the process better.
00:09:51
Speaker
but I really didn't have anybody that I can talk to about code. Nobody. It was just me, you know, walking around ah my cubicle, turning the page of textbooks and just kind of learning. Like I had three um ah Sams teach me, I believe it was called, back in the day when you use books to to figure out stuff before Google, right? And I'm just studying it and turning the page and and just trying to figure stuff out.
00:10:22
Speaker
But now that I'm in this IT organization for the first time, and I still remember this, I went into a conference room and I was there with a tech lead, an architect, a scrum master, and we were whiteboarding a solution. And that was like the greatest experience I had that up to that date because finally for the first time,
00:10:45
Speaker
I'm engaged with someone else, with a group of people that are tech, that are talking the language of tech. And I was engaging with them even at that point in time. And I'm just a whippersnapper, you know what I'm saying? But it was awesome. So that's when I felt like I'm um um'm an engineer. i'm I'm actually working with a real engineers.
00:11:07
Speaker
Nice. That's awesome. That feeling is great. Like when you're like in the room and you're talking and your ideas are going through and their ideas and you know,
Early Tech Exposure
00:11:16
Speaker
everything's flowing. You're like, wow, like we're, we're problem solving um a solution. Like this is, this is great. Absolutely. um What strategies can we implement to increase minority representation in tech?
00:11:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really good question. um Because that, even to this day, it' we're still underrepresented by a lot. But I would say I can speak from my own personal experience. What has worked for me, and even though my path is pretty irregular, it really started at home.
00:11:58
Speaker
um The biggest gift I received um that prepared me for tech was from my father. um He actually bought our first computer when I was about seven years old. And this might kind of tell on myself in terms of my age, but it was the IBM ah PC XT. I believe that only had like 20 megabytes of hard drive space.
00:12:25
Speaker
It was running MS-DOS with the floppy disks and about like 640K of RAM. I mean, it's laughable, right? It's totally to be laughable now. um and even And even though the OS was just text and black and white screen, I was so fascinated by the fact that this machine was responding back to me, like you know typing into the C prompt and having it reply back. I just thought that was the coolest thing in the world. And then when I discovered the language of basic back then, that's when I was really blown because now I was able to you know have this
00:13:05
Speaker
machine perform computation like simple math or do other simple operations like try to have it ask me a question and then I'll answer even though I'm telling it how to respond when I answer but it was just so cool that I was able to tell it what to do and it became you know really addictive so i I would say that, and we've heard we we hear things like this regarding, you know, virtuosos and and and different other areas like in in the arts, like whether you're a violinist or a pianist, whatever.
00:13:43
Speaker
and they get exposed at such a young age, it's like, that is like the best gift you can give your child because those narrow pathways get shaped right then and there. And it sets them up for that to be their strength. And I really think that's why I was able to break into into tech because even though I didn't have the computer science degree, um but um when it was time,
00:14:09
Speaker
to solve a problem. First of all, I was able to identify an opportunity and I had the confidence and I had the the skill, even though I didn't have the knowledge yet, but I had the confidence and skill and the insight to know that it could be done.
00:14:26
Speaker
And I was able to do it because of that earlier exposure. So that's that would be the biggest thing for me is to give your child um that head start at home if you can, if you have the means to do it, which you know nowadays everybody has a phone, an iPhone, so I think you can. um So ah yeah, that's that's my take on that.
00:14:48
Speaker
Awesome. Yeah, that's great advice just because um exposure right like that's that's the I think that is the common differentiator oh Just being able to to play around and and build those skills even you know Even though you don't have that knowledge that in-depth knowledge, but you have the skill and now you know it's repeatable Just because of that exposure. That's awesome
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. are What are the current trends in software engineering job market today? So what I've been noticing and is, and I'm sure unless you're living under a rock, the AI is big, right? It's it's really, it seems to be taking over the scene in a lot of areas, um especially late generative AI.
00:15:43
Speaker
for tech, I think is really um impacting that the industry. Things like GitHub co-pilot, like you mentioned earlier. um Right now, I've been seeing that it's helping you know junior or inexperienced developers be more productive. Because that's one of the big concerns of organizations today. And you know for those who are interested in tech, you probably noticed in a lot of the social media that it's very tough to get a job when you're just starting out your first um developer job. And you know I can understand that. And even from the employer perspective, I can understand because you know we're we're we're touching assets that
00:16:27
Speaker
is really um valuable to the organization. And we want to make sure that we have individuals that know what they're doing, so then we don't suffer loss. And with mentorship of senior people on the team and technologies like a GitHub co-pilot, if the organization is able to you know solve um any intellectual ah ah property concerns, it can be of high benefit to the um the junior debt. But then there's the other thing to open AIs, which is hugely popular in in the the normal space, the general population, and that's the chat GBT. and To me, personally, it's just a incredible. um I personally use this technology and when I'm doing research on different solutions for projects.
00:17:26
Speaker
um It speeds up my process in terms of clarifying certain concepts or um problem solving. Like sometimes, or at least prior to that, I would Google all the time for certain things and that's well known as a developer. You're you're going to be researching via Google.
00:17:47
Speaker
But now, I hardly use Google. I'm just going in and asking very targeted questions, and I'm getting very targeted answers.
Advice for Tech Aspirants
00:17:56
Speaker
And not only that, I can follow up with other questions, ah clarification questions. So now my learning is going up, as well as the the problem is getting resolved. So it, to me, is a game changer.
00:18:11
Speaker
And it's going to continue ah to be a game changer in the industry. um And so if ah folks who are interested in trying to get into tech, definitely be familiar with ah generative AI and make use of it. Because ah it's it's here to say, I don't see that going anywhere.
00:18:31
Speaker
um And then, of course, you have other things like cybersecurity that's definitely trending still high in the industry. um and ah And I will also say ah cloud computing in the sense of the dependency of cloud computing for large organizations, that that is becoming ah the absolute norm, the standard. So I would absolutely be familiar with that as well, because just knowing how to write code is it's not going to be enough anymore. So yeah, that's that's my thoughts.
00:19:08
Speaker
That's awesome. like That's great advice. oh the The first one, right, when you were talking about AI, I agree with that. I'm aligned. But then also myself, I was not on not on the bandwagon, per se, with like,
00:19:26
Speaker
using copilot and all that, because ah i'm I'm thinking um I can write this code myself, you know, I don't need copilot. But then I was speaking to somebody we used to work with in the past, Jeremy King, and he started talking about co-pilot and using prompts rather than letting it assist you. Just give it targeted prompts so it can give you targeted answers like you stated. um And he said like co-pilot right now could be your junior developer and then you just come in as the lead or the architect and just clean it up a little bit and make it work.
00:20:04
Speaker
Hmm So that's that's how I've been approaching it now. So co-pilot is my junior developer, you know, like my sort of like my intern Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I can totally see that I can totally see that. Yeah, so now it keeps you at the high level thought process Rather than dropping down to a low level. I'm gonna write it in this particular code or syntax here. You're not caught up in that anymore. You're having the junior developer write it for you and then you just modify. I like that. Yeah. yeah um What advantages or disadvantages do coding bootcamps graduates have compared to those with traditional degree or vice versa?
Coding Bootcamps vs. Degrees
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um yeah That's going to be kind of a tough one because I've never attended boot camp, so it would be hard for me to compare a traditional degree with that. But I will say that as a self-taught software engineer, which in my mind is is pretty close to um boot camp in terms of focus, right? Because I know the boot camp, you're going to have that structure where as a self-taught you have to manage that on your own, but the focus is definitely where there there's synergy in there. And the advantages to me if you're going to go to boot camp or self-taught route is concentration of effort, time savings,
00:21:38
Speaker
And definitely money savings, for sure. um And to me, those are very important ah things to think about, especially in the times that yeah we're now living in. I mean, with college tuition astronomically high, I mean, it's just insane. And it's it doesn't seem to... ah have an end in sight, it's just going to keep going up. ah you know All the options need to be on the table at this time. And we really need to start thinking about return on investment, not just money, but time. Because it's it's not,
00:22:18
Speaker
in my experience, the ability to learn fast and the ability to learn on your own are crucial. If you have those two, nothing can stop you. If you have to depend on somebody else, like an organization, like a university or a boot camp, not saying they're bad or anything,
00:22:47
Speaker
but I'm just saying absolute dependence on that, then I think you might want to rethink it in this path or make that your top priority to ah overcome and and have that ability to be a self-learner, because that's going to be a crucial piece to this career.
00:23:11
Speaker
um But with that being said, with the advantages of just the time savings and the focus and the the money savings, um the downside about that, though, is that general employment bias. And that's a very real bias, um especially in and corporate world, corporate America. It's a very real bias. And also low to zero network connections. That's that's another.
00:23:38
Speaker
big hurdle that you have to overcome if you go this route. So there's pros and cons to the path, right? If you go to the established path and you go and get a four year degree in computer science, you know you're you're gonna you're gonna get taught for sure. You're gonna get that foundation. You're gonna be taught how to think, right? and and And don't depend on the college for the cutting edge. That's not what they're known for. They're known to teach you how to think and how to problem solve. So if you're gonna do the traditional route, make sure you you view it in the proper lens that
00:24:11
Speaker
I want to develop my problem-solving skill. um But with that, that's four years of time. And depending upon where you go, that's a lot of money that you're showing out there. So that that that's something you gotta to take ah pretty pretty seriously. But what the pro is,
00:24:30
Speaker
If you go to a reputable school, typically they have relationships with companies, um you know, well-established organizations. um You'll have access to or inroads into internships. i When I went to my school, my alma mater, this was in SUNY Albany State University of New York. um I received internships at Morgan Stanley. That was great. you know, to have that on the resume, whoa, that's huge. um and and And so you're building that credibility. And so if if you're 18 and you haven't been groomed to think independently and and to be able to navigate life on your own and to be able to close those gaps,
00:25:21
Speaker
then maybe college is ah is a good thing for you, right? Given the deficits that you have, and that's where honesty and self-awareness has to be present. And if that's you, then I would say, yeah, go to college route. but But again, return on investment. Let's not go to a private school. At least I wouldn't do that. I would try to look for a state school, maybe do a combination of community college and then for the first two years, and then state school to wrap it up.
00:25:47
Speaker
and then you get the benefit of the college experience, you're not paying astronomical price, you're getting their benefit of the the structure, their relationships with the companies, right? and And you also have a brought in mindset and and in terms of the curriculum that you've been given, right? So that's the big thing versus self-taught thing, which I would say If you're pretty mature, you might be switching to a from a another career. That might be a very attractive option at that point, because you know how to manage your life. Now is the time to get really focused and get in there, do what you need to do to get the skill. And then you have to manage the networking, establishing the relationships while you're going ahead and pursuing it. So that's my take.
00:26:36
Speaker
Nice, that's awesome. um There's a lot to unpack there. um One of the things that you said was um
00:26:45
Speaker
but ah Well, the traditional route, four years of school and teach you how to think critically. um And then I think you also stated, or that's where my my mind went to when you were speaking boot camps, right? You you manage your time, or if you're self-taught, you manage your time, you go. It's highly focused, and I think on projects.
00:27:10
Speaker
So you you get to finish a project. How do I get from A to B and get this done rather than listening critically? yeah And then also i'm I'm aligned also with, you know, do the two year degree at a community college. If you want to go the traditional route and then transfer to to ah another school um to be able to get those internships and having those those companies on your resume to have those work and real world experiences.
00:27:38
Speaker
One thing that I've been working with is with different schools, trying to help them come up with different curriculums that they can implement while students are in high school right now. So for juniors and seniors, so that way they can earn their associate's degree.
00:27:54
Speaker
and computer science while they're, by the time they graduate high school. So then by then, when they graduate high school, they can already start those internships and then just transfer to another school to to be able to to finish off their degree. Man, that is fantastic. That sounds fantastic. I mean, you're talking about time saving and money saving with that? Never. You just check up on the boxes. um What are the most common mistakes candidates make during software engineering interviews?
Interview Mistakes
00:28:38
Speaker
Unprepared. um and specifically, so there's different ways of being um unprepared. One is you you haven't thoroughly understood what the role is um and you weren't ah honest with what you're able to do versus what the job is requiring. so because Sometimes you might say whatever it is you it takes to say in order to get the interview, and then when you show up in the interview,
00:29:21
Speaker
We're going to discover it anyway because we're going to ask very targeted questions. And now, not only did we kind of waste our time, but you also wasted your own time, right? And I think that's a mistake. I think it is better that you understand truly where you're at and target the a position that you know you're qualified for or If that role that you're qualified for
00:29:53
Speaker
doesn't exist um because companies are not hiring for that, then you might have to put in that extra work to level up in order for you to be qualified for that actual role that is being offered. um So sometimes, and I know this is hard, um and it's probably unfair that it shouldn't be this hard to get into tech. you know Back in the day, you know you can just you know graduate, you know the basics, and then you would just learn and grow from there.
00:30:22
Speaker
Unfortunately, with reality, we have to adjust with the changes in the times. And the sooner we're able to adapt by being agile, the more successful we're going to be. Because I tell you, that never stops. I always have to be ah nimble and be able to adjust depending upon the needs and the demands of an organization or the marketplace. um And so I think we also need to be able to do that. and The other thing I've noticed, which I don't know if the candidate doesn't realize that it's not that big a deal, but they kind of make it a big deal.
00:31:06
Speaker
is if they don't know the answer, it's okay to just say, hey, I don't know. um um But I would definitely like to know what that answer is or just be honest. But to me, it's more of a ding if you just try to make up something and hopefully it just slides in. it with technical interviews is is very black and white. And so making up something is we're not going to give you points for creativity. It's just it's no. So I rather you just be honest and just say, hey, I really don't know. And that way we can move on. And maybe at the end of the interview,
00:31:48
Speaker
That's just a ah small part that maybe we might be okay with you leveling up in that particular area, and that's it. But if you try to make it up, it makes me question, are you going to be the type of person that are going to be upfront with me and as we are going through the work and projects, or are you going to let me know where areas you need help in, and then we can remediate that.
00:32:16
Speaker
So those are the things that stand out to me. Yeah, I'm aligned with that, too. So everything you said, as well as, um you know, if you don't know something, just say you don't know it. But I like to know or um if you give me some time, I can get you the answer. um Because when you start making stuff up, that's that you lose all credibility in my mind. But yeah, huh.
00:32:43
Speaker
So I'm going to skip a few of these questions just because I feel like we've answered some of them. But one thing I wanted to get into, you've mentioned AI is in high demand, cloud computing is in high demand. um How do you stay current with the ever changing landscape of technology and software?
Staying Current in Tech
00:33:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, a good question. I will say that as professionals, it might be a little easier for us to stay current because, especially if you're working in an innovative organization, um like the ones that we work at. I mean, we're constantly exposed to um different solutions that could potentially solve a problem that we have at hand. um And so we're always looking if the current stack doesn't necessarily address it exactly. That's when we put on our thinking caps, our research hat, and we start looking, we start diving in. Obviously, you will be you know you could be a subscriber to
00:33:51
Speaker
You know different organizations where you can you know kind of stay current but for me definitely is While I am doing the work that is man That's when I stay current and if I feel like I'm not growing if I'm feeling like the organization is not open to new things um you know, that is definitely a a um
00:34:17
Speaker
That's definitely a bad sign. and And it's definitely something that alerts me to start thinking about, is this organization going to take me where I need to be you know in terms of my growth, or do I need to start thinking of other avenues? Because the organizations that I choose, like Nationwide, I agree with them for about nine years. And I learned a ton, especially in the last,
00:34:45
Speaker
I would say three years when cloud computing, I would say three or four years, as cloud computing was really starting to take off with large organizations. Like I was the one on the first really dive in the Docker, dive into Kubernetes, dive into um you know DevOps and DevSecOps and learning about pipelines. And I've messed around with Jenkins, Concourse, a lot of the leading CI-CD pipelines and then I just started to get connected with ah different projects that would just expose me to more stuff because it's kind of hard to do a lot of of the trending stuff while you're working on the stuff and you're also wanting to have a life and so that's why
00:35:35
Speaker
If you're going to go into engineering in a career, make sure you're also not just focusing on the money. is where you're going, innovative and always looking to implement the um the best technologies that are well supported. It gives you an opportunity to grow and to constantly be up to speed as to what's being demanded by the market. And it also keeps you focused because if you try to
00:36:09
Speaker
There's so many things that comes out in the market. I mean, you have things like Angular, React, and you know AWS versus Azure, and like all all these different technologies are constantly pumping out stuff. But which one do you know? Which one do you need to focus on? Which one do you need to spend time on, right? And so my advice in that sense is if there is a company or a sector that you're interested in,
00:36:36
Speaker
Find out what technologies that they are aligned to and target those. Understand the what's the latest thing in those particular technology platforms that that industry has bought into because you don't want to be in an interview where, man, I don't know this stuff, but they don't use any of it.
00:37:00
Speaker
and And so your excitement is not aligned with ah the technologies that they are invested in, right? How much better would it be that your passion and the technologies that you studied is aligned with the organization and their investments? And so then that it's just a beautiful match and then your growth just continues. ah So that's that's my take on how I stay current is I normally just um always make sure that I'm in an innovative organization and then I'm growing in my role and always researching, always trying to implement the best, but always learning, so.
00:37:40
Speaker
Awesome. This is a great segue to, you know, mentorship and community.
Mentorship's Impact
00:37:45
Speaker
um How have you had any mentors throughout your career and in tech? Yeah, so I've had. One mentor and it wasn't an official mentor. He was more of he was my tech lead ah back in nationwide and
00:38:11
Speaker
i I treated him like a mentor in a sense that I was always watching how he does things. And when he would give explanations on why a decision was made, a technical decision was made, you know I would really internalize that. I would go to him for advice. And you know like, for instance, when I first ah was approached to take on a tech lead position. you know I went to him when he moved on um to be an architect and I asked him his thoughts of on it um and he advised me and he he basically encouraged me to do it. you know this This is the prime opportunity, I think you're ready and so on and so forth and you know the rest is history.
00:39:00
Speaker
but Yeah, that that was to me my only mentor, and I worked with him for about, I would say three to four years, and and we still keep in contact on and off.
00:39:14
Speaker
um but Find somebody that you admire, because that's what happened with me. I really admired him. And watch him, watch that person, and engage with that person, and and pick their brain. um It was very easy for me, because I sat next to him. And I guess I wanted to be where he was at. And that's another key criteria, which I guess is built into the whole admiration, right? and Typically, admire someone that you want to be like. And so that's what I did on a day-to-day basis. I would just watch him, imitate him. And then and it was funny because when I became a tech lead and I started to like do tech reviews and things like that, sometimes I would start to find myself saying things that he would say.
00:40:05
Speaker
And sometimes I would sound, sometimes I would pick up his accent or something. It was hilarious when I would catch myself doing that, because that's how much I was absorbing him. you know so um But ever since then, um I haven't found another mentor, i haven't or at least I haven't found someone that was like, oh man, I i really,
00:40:28
Speaker
want to be that person. um Because then at that moment in time, I would naturally ah be drawn to that individual and and establish that mentorship relationship, whether it's a formal one or an informal one, like I had with my former tech lead. But that's what I would pick. And that's what I would do. That's what will make all the difference in the world. um So hopefully that answers your question.
00:40:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I did. i'm um I'm pro having a mentor. I have four mentors, and I feel like I wouldn't be where I am today without without their help. But yes, I'm i'm all for it. um What is the most exciting project you have worked on professionally?
Transformative Projects
00:41:15
Speaker
Oh, man. So when I was this was actually at Nationwide because it was the most transformative for me and also for the business at the same time um and that's what makes so those types of projects so memorable and so much fun because prior to that project
00:41:37
Speaker
I didn't have Angular experience. um I didn't have Docker experience um or really Cloud experience and or DevOps experience.
00:41:50
Speaker
And the application, that project where we were doing, we were modernizing an access application. And we turned it into a single page application with microservices, JavaScript with microservices. But what what was powerful about it was number one, the business.
00:42:15
Speaker
Obviously, working with Microsoft Access is extremely painful. In fact, I'm currently serving an organization within NetJets that has the same problems, one of the reasons why I was brought in, because of my experience. ah But not only was the Access platform so painful, but also We also wanted to solve a problem that was also a pain point for business because of ah ah capacity. And they wanted to do other things as well, is always having to put in a request for simple things. Hey, Kent, can you ah i create another drop down for this particular view?
00:42:58
Speaker
Hey, we would like to, ah when you select this drop down, it's going to, you know, determine the drop down of this dependent a child drop down. How can Ash, how can we set it up if we take you up on this pitch because I was suggesting that we completely rewrite this instead of looking at a third party solution, which I believe at the time they were thinking about SharePoint. I was like, not forget SharePoint. You don't want to go that route. You want to have a a true modern ah custom application. He said, if you if you want us to do that,
00:43:39
Speaker
figure out a way where we don't have to ask for these simple things because that's one of the promises of SharePoint. I want to be able to ah add a button. I want to be able to add a text box or dropdown and and those types of things without IT t involvement. I want to be able to do that um or modify values and and things of that nature about nature. I said, okay, no problem. Or at least at the time, I didn't know what I was going to do, but I was like,
00:44:08
Speaker
I know it can be done, period. And as long as I know it can be done, that's all that matters. And so that got me into some serious innovative thinking. um Leveraging ah Angular calls me to learn Angular, calls me to learn, um ah like I said, the the whole containerization technology, because that's where Nationwide was going at the time.
00:44:35
Speaker
So we were one of the first teams to take advantage of that and to learn and master DevOps with, like I said, Concourse CICD. We were one of the first to leverage liquid base and to build that as part of our pipeline. So when we make database changes, we manage that completely. um We also,
00:45:00
Speaker
um was one of the first to dive into Kubernetes and so I learned all of that within that time period, along with the whole Angular thing. Fast forward, not only did I learn this so much technology, but then I became the swine now when it comes to ah the cloud computing, DevSecOps, Kubernetes, and I would coach other teams that were trying to move from on-prem to the cloud and helped them to build pipelines. And so I was doing that for different teams in the and organization and consulting with them.
00:45:36
Speaker
So that was so much fun doing that. But as a final note, the product was so well received by business, the end users were cheering because of how fast it was. And the the the business stakeholders was also cheering because They had an admin panel that they can just go to and they can just add whatever fields they want. And we also took it to the level where they can apply any validation that they wanted. We had built-in validation that they can apply to any field that they wanted. And as it was a custom validation, we also allowed for regular expression that they can put in there.
00:46:15
Speaker
And then that would be enforced immediately by the press of the button. So that was something I was extremely proud of because it benefited into business, but also it so much benefited me and boosted my career. No, that's awesome. um
00:46:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's great. You were like a thought leader when it came to, you know, the Angular and the SharePoint, creating those different solutions and getting it to the cloud. And then also went beyond your space and help other teams as well with the cloud migration.
00:46:53
Speaker
awesome Yeah, yeah, it was definitely definitely awesome and then eventually I also got invited to take part in DevSecOps where we got I got my team but primarily it was myself was piloting um ah security pipeline technology so that we are ensuring that ah the code is secure. um And so there were definite phases and gates that was established that um I was taking part in and building in terms of the pipeline and implementing the plug-ins that security team provided for me. And yeah, it was successful. it A lot of great feedback. but
00:47:40
Speaker
Yeah, those are the opportunities that came because of the knowledge and still skills that came out of that project. So again, it circles back to the previous point, making sure that you join an innovative organization because that will have a significant impact on your growth potential and your long-term career. Yep, I'm aligned with that.
Joy in Problem-Solving
00:48:08
Speaker
um What do you enjoy most about your job?
00:48:19
Speaker
um the lies coating Just let you know that you you know once a software engineer, always a software engineer, and at least ah a true coder, because I do enjoy um problem solving in different ways. um I was concerned when I first took on like the tech lead.
00:48:40
Speaker
role and things like that because I'm like, oh man, I'm going to be coming away from the keyboard and I'm going to have to be doing a lot of meetings and I'm not going to be having as much fun. But you know my my my tech lead at the time, my former a mentor, you told me that it's a different, think of it as a different set of problem solving. So you're going to still get that edge scratched. um And he's like, don't don't get me wrong. I love coding too. And I will always need to have a little spice of that. But he said, but you still get that edge. And it's true. i whether Whether it's solutioning a an architectural design or whether it's doing ah pipeline work or you know things of that nature, um it's problem solving. But at the end of the day, if you give me eight hours of coding,
00:49:34
Speaker
You know, I'm smiling from ear to ear, uninterrupted through the ear smile that's happened. Yeah, I feel the same way. um Just because you know like you're an architect now. um And I'm also an architect at NetJets. And we go we have a ton of like tons and tons of meetings. Our calendars are always full. Yeah, it is like different problems we're solving. We're solving the business to a market problem. right The business want a solution. How do we get it out to market in a safe, secured way and fast as well?
00:50:10
Speaker
um and to be able to meet all of their features. um But then sometimes, right, that that's something that I've also struggled with, like how do i get how do I get more time, hands on the keyboard? And when I talked to my mentor about it, he mentioned the same thing. i like ah there are going to be opportunities where I can scratch that itch with reference um implementations. So I can deliver to the team so they can do their work. So yeah, I'm definitely aligned. Yeah, yeah. Those POCs are a lot of fun. what um What has been the most unexpected aspect of the IT industry for you?
Reflecting on Opportunities
00:50:56
Speaker
Opportunity. I honestly had no idea the ah level of opportunity that was given to me and the momentum that ah that I received ah once I took it on, the support.
00:51:19
Speaker
And I guess it's connected with the opportunity because without the support, opportunities is almost non-existent. But yeah, the support that I have for my leadership, you know, stemming all the way from when I was in customer service and my supervisor took interest in that program that I wrote. And then, ah you know, that became visible to offer leadership and she didn't have to do that. um I remember when she went to bat for me with one of the executives saying that, you know, we're wasting this guy's time on the phones when he could be building more solutions and really making a difference for the organization. And that's when
00:51:59
Speaker
The VP gave the sign off to get them off the phones. I mean, that was incredible. And then when I got into the technology organization itself, um the support that I had from my managers was incredible. The trust that they had for me was also incredible. like you know Sometimes I would take risks. um I had an idea that I think would really get the job done.
00:52:27
Speaker
you know, might be risky on paper and a lot of people would shy away from that because they would have to own it and be accountable for it. um But my manager trusted me and um and she basically gave the nod and I was able to, you know, actually be successful and the more successful I was, I guess the more trust was was issued to me and the momentum just continued to build because I'd like to, and maybe it's connected with my personality, like I like to really swing for the fences and instead of playing safe um because I really want to make an impact and um and just the opportunity to do that. um and So that that to me is what was most unexpected. Like I honestly did not expect to be in this position today.
00:53:24
Speaker
because I've been in the tech industry now for about 11 years. And, um you know, I've met people that's been in the same position for those that same time period. And I just had no idea. But here I am, you know, it worked out. So I guess the lesson for that is if you're willing to swing for the fences, do do your best work. um you In my experience, you'll get rewarded for that because it's it's IT and coding and engineering is like magic. It's like you're you're able to create things that is really going to add value. And it's all about data these days. And you you have the ability to to create something magnificent that can basically
00:54:23
Speaker
take data and create value for somebody else. And so they're going to reward you if you're able to be a a hard worker and you're willing to do what it takes to hit the objectives. My experience, yeah, you're going to go places. So that was most unexpected for me. I had no idea.
00:54:47
Speaker
Nice, nice. So you got a lot of support from your manager. And then until the executive signed off on everything, you had their support as well. I like the way you worded that like, um you said, on paper, it was risky, right? But um once you had that support, once they gave you a shot, like you you outperformed. So yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. And um and You know, working working with alongside you at NetJets and seeing your work and the impact that you have on the organization as a whole as well. um You know, it's it's it's it's been awesome. It's been incredible to work alongside you. So, and again, thank you for coming in on on the show.
00:55:36
Speaker
I appreciate it. And obviously it goes without saying you as well. I mean, you know, you're one of the youngest IT professionals in our organization and you're a solution architect as well. So that that is amazing.
00:55:49
Speaker
in and of itself. oh And yeah yeah, your story is quite it's quite amazing.
00:55:58
Speaker
I'm hoping your audience knows about a little bit about you so that they can also be inspired. Appreciate you,
Networking and Further Discussion
00:56:06
Speaker
Priller. And before we end, how can our listeners get a hold of you if they wanted to follow you on social media or reach out?
00:56:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, they can find me on LinkedIn. They can just look up my name, Ash Barrett, and be able to find my page. And they can just message me, DM me, and yeah, it'll be no problem. ah Or you can do linkedin dot.com slash
00:56:42
Speaker
T-C-H-L-E-I-S-U-R-E. And that'll take you right to my page as well. All right. Awesome, brother. All right. Take care. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.