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June 1964 (side A)
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June 1964. The Beatles are off to the Netherlands, Australia and New Zealand. when Ringo collapses. What happens next? Jim Berkenstadt joins your toppermost crew to discuss Jimmie Nicol, The Bossa Nova and a little bit of ska. In addition to the feature, we start to cover the British charts. Why "start?" Because we simply cannot stop talking about PJ Proby, so June will pass over to four separate sides! #MadeonZencastr.
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Transcript
The Beatles' Motivational Chant
00:00:00
Speaker
the Beatles had this chant John Paul and George and probably then Stuart and Pete had this chant when things weren't going well which in their world wasn't very often because mostly it was an upward trajectory but nonetheless sometimes you know a bit of a bad night or the gig we you know it didn't work properly or the amps broke or whatever I say where are we going fellas and they'd go to the top Johnny and I say where's that fellas and they say to the top of most of the papamos I say right and we'd also Cheer up. I'd say, where are we going, fellas? And they go to the top, Johnny. I'd say, where's that, fellas? And they say, to the toppermost of the poppermost. And I'd say, right. And we'd all sort of cheer up.
Exploring Beatles' 1964 Australia Tour
00:00:49
Speaker
Welcome to Side A, Toppermost of the Poppermost. I'm Ed Chien. I'm Kiro Chul. And I'm Martin Cubel. We are here for June of 1964. Our feature for this month, this is the month where the Beatles went to Australia. Jim Birkenstadt, the rock and roll detective, is joining us and we're going to dig a bit more into Jimmy Nickel and the 64 tour. That's right. And he is the man to ask because he is the author of the book all about Jimmy Nicole, The Beetle Who Vanished. And it is out right now in an updated version, the 60th anniversary Beatles edition. So welcome, Jim. Thank you very much for having me on.
Ringo Starr's Collapse and Jimmy Nicol's Involvement
00:01:40
Speaker
It certainly was an unusual tour.
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah they were suddenly caught off guard when something happened the day before they were due to leave. They're about to leave for Denmark and Ringo of course collapses and has tonsillitis. So what are they going to do? They have to go on with the tour and so they need a drummer. So what happens? How did Jimmy Nickel come into the picture? First of all, I remember talking to Neil Aspinall about this and he said, it was the weirdest thing. Ringo just sort of buckled and collapsed to the floor while we were doing this photo session. And we were also supposed to do another recording session later that evening. And then the next day they're getting on a plane to go across the world. And he said, I remember just picking him up in my arms and taking him to a car. And we went to the hospital. Wow. For Brian Epstein, he must have been freaking out because back then there were no out clauses in any of the contracts. There was no insurance that would cover a temporary cancellation or anything like that. And so you had all these tickets sold around the world. You had all the merchandise stocked in the stores and you had all these plans all set up that took a year.
00:02:59
Speaker
And now you're missing your drummer. So Epstein also realized that the life of a pop star in those days was sometimes quite short. And he really wanted the Beatles to have a long run. And here they were really gaining some momentum. You know, they
Brian Epstein's Stress and Management
00:03:16
Speaker
had taken over America on the Ed Sullivan show. They had had the top five hits on the charts in America and they were, you know, blowing away everyone in England. And so, you know, he really wanted to keep that rolling. So John and Paul, I think we're fine with the idea. George clearly at first resisted and said, well, if Ringo's not here, we're not the Beatles and I'm not going. John Stone's question, which remains and no one has been able to satisfactorily answer this is when was Ringo told that this is what was going to happen?
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, clearly, whenever he was told the wheels were already in motion, and I mean, there was... The wheels were probably already up in the air, to be honest. We have to do this. We're not happy we have to do this, but we have to find a drummer. So, with that, Epstein sent Neil Aspinall out looking for drummers. And also, Epstein knew of Jimmy Nickel, but he also knew of some other drummers that he liked. One from Liverpool, I think, and then one that was a... ah session player in London. There had been a Tommy Quickly session at Decca Records and Tommy Quickly was in Brian Epstein's Stable of Artists and I was able to locate about 10 minutes of footage
00:04:31
Speaker
of that session and you see clearly Jimmy Nickel. I think his name's on the drum head too but it's it's clearly him drumming. You see Brian Epstein just a few feet away talking to the producer, looking at the lyrics and all that sort of thing and then it cuts to a scene where they're actually recording and Brian is upstairs looking down through the glass at Jimmy Nickel and this protege who is singing Tommy Quickly and clearly Brian was aware of how good a drummer Jimmy Nickel was and then in addition to that Jimmy Nickel was now playing with Georgie Fame and the Blue Flames in the Flamingo nightclub and Paul McCartney as a bachelor would go to some of those shows and he was good friends with Georgie Fame, probably still is. So Paul McCartney got to see Jimmy Nickel's drumming up close in this small nightclub so
00:05:23
Speaker
They already had some familiarity with him. A lot of the Wikipedia's and a lot of articles that come out say George Martin had worked with him and George knew him from this or that. That is absolutely a mistake. It's not a fact. It's not true. I asked George Martin when I first wrote the book, did you know anything about Jimmy Nickel? And he said I had heard of him. I had heard that he was over at Pi. and that he was a session drummer. He said, that's it, I didn't know anything else. So what I learned in writing this new updated book, I interviewed the wife of Charlie the Fixer. Charlie Katz was the guy in London who would set up musicians for any sessions at any recording studio for any record label. He was the go-to guy and his wife worked side by side with him doing the very same thing. And her name is Nita Katz.
00:06:15
Speaker
And I interviewed her when she was 102 years old. She just passed away recently, I think, at 105. But she confirmed to me, too, that George Martin called her because he was told about the name from Brian Epstein. And he said, how is this guy Jimmy Nickel? And she said, he's great. And you know, all you need to do is have him comb his hair down over his forehead and he'll be a perfect substitute. It's lucky really that Jimmy Nichol was already used to some of their songs anyway through being the drummer on some of the recordings of the copies of Beatles songs. Jimmy was actually on one of those knockoff Beatles records in
Rare Tour Footage and Publicity Stunt
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Speaker
the UK. That Beatlemania album that Jimmy drums on, that's not very good. And even his drumming is not very good. I will say he is a good drummer, but on that recording, it's not very good. And you kind of just answered question number two, which was, you know, this whole incident, the whole tour really is amazingly well documented. Kit and I went through all of the television footage that has been taken from around the world from that era.
00:07:29
Speaker
and, you know, ITV was there in the studio. Well, how did that happen so quickly? I interviewed the publicist who worked directly for Georgie Fame, and he revealed to me that he leaked this information. I can't corroborate it with other people, but he said the reason why I leaked it was because I thought it would bring attention to Georgie Fame because he was being a nice guy and loaning Jimmy out to the Beatles and to his friend Paul McCartney. So he said, i since I was aware of that, I just thought I could get some publicity for Georgie Fame. But he said it kind of got out of control.
00:08:10
Speaker
He said, happy road was just flooded with news media from everywhere. The rest of the afternoon after Jimmy left, John Paul and George remained behind to record demos and overdubs for several songs in the studio too, including, You Know What To Do. So, okay, we have footage of them leaving the next day from London and we have footage of them arriving in Copenhagen. That is the 4th of June. And then on the 6th, we've got that famous canal footage. You know, what's interesting too was later on the 20th anniversary of that, the Holland Beetle Convention had Jimmy Nickel there. It was like the only thing he ever did to sort of celebrate that he had played with the Beatles and they actually put him on the the same canal boat with with the same old guy that drove it and they took pictures of him waving to basically nobody from the canal. It's kind of an interesting juxtaposition to have. I had both photos in the book obviously in the right place chronologically but kind of interesting to see him in that same boat 20 years later. Uh, later that day on the sixth, we have that famous Heineken footage from Blocher and recently just a little bit more of that has turned up and was played on a local television over there. It's sort of just starting to make its way around the internet. They tantalize us with the entire reel, but we only get about a minute more footage from what we had previously.
00:09:41
Speaker
Well, I hope it comes out someday. I think fans would love to see the whole thing because it was was shot pretty well and you can you can hear them.
Jimmy Nicol's Brief Fame in Sydney
00:09:48
Speaker
So then they moved on to Hong Kong and there's actually really not much footage from there. What we have is we have the aftermath of that and those capes, which apparently just fell apart completely once they hit Australia. And it's cool, when they first got there, they landed in Sydney in a big rainstorm and they they had to ride around on a cart in this horrible, horrible storm. It kneels up on that cart too, as I recall. And I asked him about that and he goes, yeah, there were some days that just weren't that much fun. And he said, riding on that cart was like, you wonder now, why did we have to do that?
00:10:25
Speaker
but It's a shame we don't have any ah footage of what the Beatles remembered or Jimmy from get back. It's like, uh, one, two, three, four. And then they all turned around and Jimmy was just there looking at the girls. Oh yeah, that's right. The Beatles were pretty much trapped in hotel rooms, wherever they went and in Sydney. You know, Jimmy had been trying to get out at every city because no one really knew who he was. So he took Mal and they went to this place in Sydney called the Checkers Lounge, which I did check out when I was there. Now it's a it's like a sort of an inappropriate gentleman's club. But at the time, this.
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah, do this at the time it was a really cool nightclub and they used to hire you know famous singers from around the world who would then spend like three weeks of residency there and then you know and they were all recording artists and such. So that was cool. So he was there the night of a Capitol Records recording artist named Francis Fay. And she somehow heard about it. everybody Everything's leaked when there's Beatles involved. So she said, I think we'll have a Beatle in the crowd. And she introduced Jimmy. And then after a break, they talked and then he agreed to go out and play drums on her her second set. So that was kind of fun for him, I
Tribute to the Beatles' Tour with Nicol
00:11:47
Speaker
think. The 12th, the Town Hall balcony. Granted, the Beatles were old hands at going up and waving to crowds, but that one in particular is just outrageously crazy. It's just amazing, you know, to think that two to three hundred thousand kids were were down there. And what's cool in my updated version, the Beetle Who Vanished 60th Beatles Anniversary Tour edition, I um got some new information because they paid tribute to Jimmy and the Beatles by putting up this big thick
00:12:21
Speaker
glass installation, which is a giant photo that looks like the Beatles are still up on the balcony waving down at the two, three hundred thousand crazy fans from the town hall. And what's cool is if you go up into that area and look from behind, you actually see the backs of the Beatles waving to the people down below. So it's a front and back photo installation sealed up in some really thick glass to protect it. And they they plan to keep it there forever, I was told. Wow, that's very cool. You got about 10 minutes of Centennial Hall footage. Anything special you want to say about that show? I've listened to all of those shows that are audio bootlegs and I've seen many pictures of it. I've had some of my
00:13:07
Speaker
pictures in the book are from that centennial hall show and i did drive by there and checked out the building it was just a crazy noisy concert it was just absolute pandemonium and it was looked like about 99 girls and one percent boys and what's interesting at the end when they wanted the kids to settle down they played the Oh, what's it called? the ah It's like the thing they'd play when the king or the queen of England would you know walk in the room, some sort of promenade song. And they all stood up and were very quiet and just stopped all the screaming and everything and just sort of stood up like robots and and
Nicol's Post-Tour Career and Ska Exploration
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Speaker
respected the ah the song. Then on the 15th, we actually have an interview from Essendon with Jimmy Nickel. That would be the last one, I believe, in Melbourne. And I think Brian Epstein's there and he's, you know, basically, what are you going to be doing, Jimmy, when you get back home? And what was the experience like? And he does talk about, well, I think my label, which was Pi.
00:14:12
Speaker
is putting together a band for me and we'll see what happens and I think about a week later he was on top of the pops and then he was his band was asked to replace the Dave Clark five because Dave Clark had to go into the hospital something about drummers having to go into hospitals I guess what is this exactly but you know they were just created more opportunities for Jimmy nickel But you know what's interesting about that interview is behind the scenes Brian Epstein had gotten very angry with Jimmy Nickel the day before at the press conference because there were five Beatles at the table Ringo was back and basically the media just wanted to talk to the four original Beatles and not Jimmy. he He was sort of forgotten and he's off at the side of the table. So he started a sidebar with another journalist, again, talking about what are you going to do when you get back. But because he was, you know, had a microphone, it was interrupting and creating noise for the the dialogue between the Beatles and the press. So um Epstein really ripped him. I was there was a guy, I think his name was Tony Newman. He was the drummer for Sounds Incorporated. And
00:15:24
Speaker
I interviewed him and he said he was right there when Epstein grabbed him in the hall and started yelling at him like how you know that was so rude etc and you know jeff Jimmy just sat there kind of took it like a gentleman and didn't argue back but then Epstein said just go to your room and pack up wow so Jimmy goes to his room disappears for a while and then he runs out and this is all before the Essendon thing the next day he runs out to a pub And it's just having drinks. And Epstein you know is there at the hotel. The boys are all you know partying it up with the girls and whatnot. And and Epstein says, where's Jimmy Nickel? And they're like, oh, he went to the pub.
00:16:07
Speaker
So he sent Neil and I believe Mal to look for him and they found him and said, hey, you have to come back with us to the hotel right away. And he said, why? I'm not a beetle anymore. And ah Neil said, well, Brian says you are a beetle until we put you on that plane. So so they just, you know, did not get along so well at that point. And the next day you can see they're both playing nice on the camera on that interview. And, you know, Jimmy thanks Brian and Brian thanks Jimmy and then you see you see Jimmy walked to the stairs of the airplane by Brian and they shake hands and so they're pretty good at PR considering they were not happy with each other at that time.
00:16:53
Speaker
And what's interesting also is then later on when Jimmy would you know have a challenging time or something didn't go right for him for you know the next twenty years he would say well I think Brian Epstein blacklisted me and that's why this didn't work out so he. Clearly, I don't think knew that that wasn't the case. You know, everyone I asked in the inner circle said, who's still alive? or And those some who who passed on all said, no, overall, Brian was very pleased. The the boys were very pleased. We're everyone like Jimmy. He did a great job. He saved the tour until Ringo got back. And and in fact, also, I asked reporters, too, and no one got the impression that
00:17:36
Speaker
Jimmy was ever blacklisted and in fact Epstein set up a concert where Jimmy and the Beatles, Jimmy's group, the Shubdubs and the Beatles were on the same bill. I don't think he would have gone to that trouble to expose Jimmy's band to such a large audience if he had really tried to blacklist him. You know, that's the opposite of blacklisting. So Kit, you wanted to talk a bit about the Spotniks before we then move back into our show.
Nicol's Fame with the Spotniks in Japan
00:18:02
Speaker
Yes. Just wanted to touch a little bit on post Beatles Jimmy Nickel. Just a couple of things. First of all, I just wanted to briefly touch on before we get to the Spotniks, the Shub Dubs, because this was one of Jimmy Nickel's bands. I actually
00:18:19
Speaker
went online and listened to a bit of Shub Dubs. And one of the songs I was listening to was Humpty Dumpty. And one of the genres we've talked about quite a bit on our show is Ska. And I listened to ah Humpty Dumpty. And ah yep, and that is definitely Ska. And that was a single that we put out in 1964. So can you talk a little bit about the Shub Dubs?
00:18:57
Speaker
They were a very talented group of people and they all came from playing in sessions and that's how Jimmy ah knew them very well. and you know When he came back, he was in all the newspapers and he had concerts lined up and ah and a couple of recordings lined up. and stuff so He was able to convince some of these guys to take a break from recording sessions to help him tour in the fall as the Shubdubs. And all very talented guys. In fact, two nights ago, I was with Alex Orbison, Roy Orbison's son, youngest son, who is the drummer in a band called the Almond Bets revival or family revival band. And it's it's kids of the Almond brothers and such. and
00:19:46
Speaker
ah Alex was saying, you know, I've been listening to these shove dubs and if they had come out in 1969 or 70 when blood, sweat and tears came out, they probably would have been really big. But, you know, at the time, Everything was I want to hold your hand and she loves you in in the 64 and the shop dumps were just kind of a bit ahead of the curve with sort of rhythm and blues and ska and forging sort of combinations of Rock and blues and things like that and I think he has a point that they were maybe ahead of their time and the other problem is that If you're running a band from the back drum kit, usually you're not going to go too far unless you're a great singer as well. And, you know, like look at the Foo Fighters. Dave Grohl had to come out from the back of the kit at Nirvana, start his own band and play guitar and be in front to be successful. That's a good point. You know, if he had had an unknown singer up front and he was just playing drums in the back, we never would have heard of the Foo Fighters.
00:20:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a very good point. I think it's definitely hard to run a band from the back. So I think that's the same issue with the Shubdubs. The lead singer was was unknown. Yep, that's very true. Go check it out. Search for the Shubdubs Humpty Dumpty. Really interesting to listen to. Now, the other band I wanted to mention is the Spotniks. And now we have talked about the Spotniks before yeah on this show, but the Spotniks we've talked about was pre-Jimmy Nickel. Can you talk a bit about Jimmy's time with the Spodniks? Yeah. um He had sort of bumped into them when he did a fall tour with the Shubdubs of Europe. And they just kind of talked over beers and stuff. And he sort of made friends with them. And then he went back to being Jimmy Nickel and the Shubdubs, and then another band in 65 called The Sound of Jimmy Nickel. And at some point in, I think, think it was about August or September of 65 when Jimmy was really down on his luck. He got a call from
00:21:56
Speaker
the Spotniks manager saying, hey, you know our drummer has been told that he can't tour anymore because his wife wants him to stay home. So ah you know would you want to come? And he said, well, is this just a temporary thing? And I said, no, we want you to be a full member of this band full time. So he just packed up and walked out the door. And so many people in London said, we never saw or heard from him again. So that was literally the first time he disappeared. He joined the Spotniks. I like to compare that band. They're they're from Gothenburg, Sweden. I compare them to the Ventures who we had here in America who played mostly instrumental rock and and so did the Spotniks.
00:22:41
Speaker
The Spotniks were very clever because you know Jimmy got involved in production and playing and all this stuff. But what's interesting was that they would they were very clever.
Nicol's Disappearance and Mexican Connection
00:22:54
Speaker
They would tour a part of the world and then they would stop, say, in Paris and then record an album there and then call it The Spotniks in Paris and then The Spotniks in Germany, etc. they So they did a lot of that. which I think was clever marketing because then it got people in that country, whether they saw them or not, they'd probably heard of them and they'd see the album in the store and pick it up. They actually did hit number one with a song in Japan just as Jimmy and the Spotniks landed there and their manager said, come on, we're going to have you put on the silly spacesuits.
00:23:30
Speaker
and go out and wave to the fans. And, you know, none of the band was really too thrilled about that, but they did it anyway. And it was sort of another occasion where Jimmy kind of got to be in the middle of some mania, you know, because they had a top record, they were the media wanted them, they were playing big shows in Japan, and and the fans were, you know, even at the airports welcoming the band. So he got another taste of that a couple of years later. Wow. Jimmy had many wives. Did you say lives or wives?
00:24:07
Speaker
whoa dont
00:24:11
Speaker
Yes, indeed. That's correct, Kit. yeah yeah but The Spotniks showed up on the charts more times than we would have guessed. I mean, they were challenging the Beatles for a while there through 62 and early 63. They did really well on the charts ah throughout Europe. For some reason, they didn't catch on over in America. but Maybe they didn't even want to try to hard because the ventures were sort of covering that territory. And then at the end of his spot next tenure, Jimmy apparently developed a strong interest in the bossa nova. And that's something that we've just kind of recently gotten into. A girl from Ipanema has shown up on the billboard charts and kit reminds us that it was a very popular format at this time.
00:24:58
Speaker
Well, I don't know if that was a question for me, but yeah um the Spotniks said that Jimmy loved Basanova. And that's why when I asked the Spotniks, you know, what happened when Jimmy disappeared from you guys, just vanished one night, they said, well, because he loved Basanova, we figured he moved to Brazil. And so I was sort of sent off in the wrong direction for at least a year.
Jim Birkenstadt's Documentary Discoveries
00:25:24
Speaker
Wow. And then I thought, well, maybe he didn't go there. Maybe he stayed in Mexico, just guessing. And so i I sort of typed in something about rock and roll historians in Mexico and found one who's quoted all through the book, the Mexican part of the book. And ah he said, Oh, yeah, I know. ah
00:25:44
Speaker
Jimmy's wife, Julia, and she'll tell you all about what Jimmy did in Mexico. I was like, oh my god, this is great. So it's just funny, you know, you think of something, you try to reach out to someone who might give you a lead and next thing you know, you you just get lucky and you have what you need. And I've been very lucky that way. Sometimes I just sit there and go, well, I'll wait a few days, see what happens. And I was working on a um ah documentary recently that's on Paramount Plus right now. It's called I Wanna Rock The 80s Metal Dream. So it's a heavy metal documentary about these various people. And they said, Jim, we can't make this documentary unless you find us home footage of Sebastian Bach jumping up on stage at a New Jersey wedding singing because that's how he was discovered.
00:26:36
Speaker
like I'm like, all right, well, first tell me who Sebastian Bach is. So anyway. I should have called you with that. I know I should have called you. That wasn't my era, but I had. That's my youth. So I looked everywhere and could not find any clues. they And I said to the production people, you know, what year? We don't know. What city in New Jersey was the wedding? We don't know. Who got married? We don't know. They just knew nothing. Oh my gosh. So I had Nora go and I thought, they keep telling me they can't make the whole documentary unless they have this footage. So I just kind of threw it up to the sky and said, well, something will happen. And three days later, Alex Orbison again calls me and says, hey, Jim, I just read your book, Mysteries in the Music Case Close. I loved it. I was on tour every day. We're on the bus. I was reading a chapter. It's great. And I said, oh, thanks. Glad you liked it. And he said, hey, I got a buddy.
00:27:33
Speaker
and he's going out on tour with his band, would you sign a ah book for him and send it to him? I said, sure, what's his name? And he said, Sebastian Bach. And I said, all right. I said, give me this guy's email or I'm not sending him a book. So I talked to him and he knew exactly who's wedding, when it was. He knew who had the footage. And I was like, this is just amazing. When something you're looking for just comes out of nowhere and it comes to you, you didn't have to find it. So I get very lucky that way. Wow.
00:28:10
Speaker
That's amazing. So so so you know you know nothing more about Jimmy and his love of the Bossa Nova other than that he told the other Spotniks that he loved Bossa Nova. That's all I know. Okay. Yeah. All right. Thank you very much. This has been fascinating stuff. Sixty years ago, Jimmy Nickel and the Beatles on tour in Australia and
Promoting 'The Beatle Who Vanished'
00:28:33
Speaker
New Zealand. Where can people find you, find your book? Well, ah they can find the book at Amazon dot.com. The book's available as a paperback, a hardcover, and a Kindle e-book. It's called The Beetle Who Vanished, 60th Beatles Anniversary Tour Edition. If people want a signed copy, they can go to TheBeetleWhoVanish.com, and it's available there. And then they want to contact me on social media.
00:29:03
Speaker
Jim Birkenstadt or rock and roll detective at Facebook. And I'm also on Instagram as at rock and roll detective, Twitter at rock detective, LinkedIn, Jim Birkenstadt. I'm all over the place. Just Google me. I'll tell you folks, if you have the original version, which I did, and I reviewed years ago, and I'll tell you, if even if you have the original, you've got to pick up this new edition because there is a lot of new stuff in it. Close to 600 pages. Exactly. I think it's 300. Channel pages aren't real pages, yes. but yeah You will find out what happened to Jimmy Nickel because I did find him and find out what happened. I'll tell you everything about it. it's in that
00:29:46
Speaker
in the new edition. So thank you guys very much for having me on. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Jim. This has been fascinating. Fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. here You guys are great and wish you luck with ah continued good fortune with your podcast. Oh, thank you. Yeah. All right. Well, take care. We'll see you next time. All right.
Jimmy Nicol's Transient Fame
00:30:08
Speaker
So that was the Australia New Zealand tour. We will close the Jimmy Nickel chapter by saying that according to Jim, Jimmy believed that he actually had a shot at replacing Ringo. Yes. Oh, poor guy.
00:30:26
Speaker
you know the recordings that you hear of them with Jimmy Nickel? To me when I hear these recordings I think it's good but all these times that you hear this sort of thing it shows how great Ringo was at what he did and it it adds to that irritation of mine where you still still to this day you get this ringo. Drummer in the beatles all that about to me you know you listen to these things if you do listen to it and compare you can see there and then why ringo is regarded by drummers and musicians as one hell of a drummer in comparison to these people that.
00:31:05
Speaker
you know, like Jimmy that that covered. Yeah. I mean, that picture and we, I think everybody has seen it. It's in Jim's book, that picture of Jimmy at the airport, the gold watch and he's off and sitting alone, you know, sitting alone in the terminal, you know, still in his, you know, beetle suit boots, the haircut. I mean, it just says it all like, you know, there he was on, you know, being a, you know, a sort of beetle for a time and then back to real life. I mean, that picture just says everything.
Paul McCartney's Support and Misunderstanding
00:31:38
Speaker
doest ah And Paul seems to be the one who at least gave the most thought to Jimmy, which is kind of interesting given the kind of thoughtlessness of Paul McCartney. We've heard from that era. I mean, he got Jimmy a gig with Peter and Gordon.
00:31:54
Speaker
He used Jimmy's line, you know, getting better all the time. And he at least was interested in whatever became of Jimmy, at least to a point. Yeah. Nobody would have been stupid enough to have said to Jimmy, oh, do this. And there might be a chance of you replacing Ringo. That would definitely not been put on the table for him. No. Oh no, nobody ever said that to him. He he just he just picked that up in his own in his own head. You know, as as Jim says in Beetle Who Vanished, it's like, oh, well, they replaced drummers just a year ago. Maybe they'll do it again. Yeah. Damn me. Oh, All right. There probably could not be a Jimmy Nickel podcast, although maybe there could. How would one go about starting a Jimmy Nickel podcast?
00:32:44
Speaker
o
00:32:47
Speaker
So how would you be able to make a podcast about that?
Using Zencastr for Podcasting
00:32:51
Speaker
Well, when we started coming up with toppermost of the poppermost, we were thinking exactly the same thing. As we were experienced with online recording through Zencaster, we looked at what the service provided in their own podcast hosting services. Already, through our experiences of using their online recording for the show when they was fab, which Ed has presented for many years now, we were already aware of their ability to provide separate recordings for each participant.
00:33:18
Speaker
all of which are recorded on each person's own devices in order to cut down on any signal degradation. The automated editing is helpful, even though we still do more editing afterwards. It still helps, though, by cutting down the time spent on editing by a number of hours. As with a few services, it places the episodes onto all streaming providers for you and their online diagnostics are easy to use. with the recording process and the editing services provided.
00:33:51
Speaker
You have everything you need to create, edit, and distribute your podcast every step of the way at an affordable
1964 British Charts and Music Scene
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price. If you go to zencaster.com slash pricing and use the code Toppermost, T-O-P-P-E-R-M-O-S-T, you'll get 30% off your first month of any Zencaster paid plan. We want you to have the same easy experiences that we do for all of our podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. All right, so on to the first week of the British charts for June of 1964. June the 2nd. At number one is You're My World from Silla and it would spend most of the month at number one. Four weeks at number one and then fall off to number three.
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Just as an aside, there was that Doctor Who episode which took place in 1963. Not only did we get four actors playing the Beatles, we got a fake Silla and a fake George Martin. I'm very happy about that. Oh, very cool. That's some attention to detail. Yeah, even though it wasn't historically accurate, I mean, you know, it's set in February of 63, they found a red-headed actress who is actually a Liverpoolian who plays Silla. Nice. Do we have a fake Mel? We do not have a fake Mel. Oh, they could have meld Mel in.
00:35:15
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ah Brian does get a name check and Mrs. Mills gets a name check. Listen to the episode over on fab where we talked about that or just tune in. I mean, it's only an hour of your life. Even if you're not a doctor who person, it is kind of cool to see yeah time travelers running into ah February of 1963. All right, at number four is It's Over by Roy Orbison, which would go from number four to three weeks at number two, and then it would take the top spot, taking it over from Silla. At number six, A Little Loving from the Foremost, which is on its way down from six to nine to 14 to 19 to 29.
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at number eight don't throw your love away by the searchers which is also on its way down ah again we're gonna have a lot of turnover in the charts this month normally we only have 10 to 15 songs on the british idea given month this month we've got over 20 don't throw your love away moves from 8 to 15 to 26 to 36 to 40 at number 15 don't let the sun catch you crying by jerry and the pacemakers also on its way down 15 to 24 to 32 to 49 to 48 at number 16 don't turn around by the mersey beats 16 to 22 to 27 to 42 to 41 at number 18 here i go again by the holly's number 18 to number 11 to number 8 to number 4 to number 7 so that's on the way up
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At number 22, Can't Buy Me Love, slowly moving down, 22 to 25 to 30 to to 44. At number 23, World Without Love by Peter and Gordon, which would only be on the charts for two more weeks after this one, from 23 to 27 to 37. At number 24, Shout by Lulu and the Lovers, which would move from 24 to 17 to 10 to 7 to 9. and the first new song for June of 1964. Can't you see that she's mined by the Dave Clark Five? It's a pretty typical Dave Clark Five song, I think.
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I actually have always liked this one. This brought me back, okay, for Chicago reference to me when I was listening to Magic 104 with Dick Biondi. You're in Chicago. He used to play this a lot on the old East Station here. So this brought me back. I've always liked this one. I like the usual drums. Not quite as hard drumming as on a typical Dave Clark Five track. The good kind of organ. We're going to see the not so good kind as we go along here. Good pulsing bass has ah kind of an R and&B feel. I've always liked this track. It's, ah you know, just kind of a typical catchy
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Dave Clark Five banger. ye Yeah, but I prefer the B side. The B side was because, which is in my mind, a really great Dave Clark Five song. That's good too. Absolutely. I've always liked this one. You can hear the saxophone on this. Saxophone's good. Like you said, I love the bass line on this. The drums are very laid-back for these guys. Yes. But it caught me out. It's okay. I just thought that it was a bit laid-back for the Dave Clark Five. At number 35, sounds incorporated with the Spartans, which would be its final week on the charts. No jokes. Maybe its presence on the chart would be Spartan. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.
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Well, I mean, yeah we had three in a row last month, so... Yep. We need Dave Clark's drummer to do some drum roll there. Yeah, really? Yep. There you go. At number 36 baby it's you by Dave Berry 36 to 48 and it would be out. Dave Berry. Hello Eric, how are you? Whoops, we have my biscuit in Leomda. We're coming here Vida. Eric is the lead singer from the Mayan vendors. How did it feel to have your first record number one in the States?
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Oh, it was great. Really fantastic, yeah. We'd like one more group a number from the group Eric. First of all, it's a great pleasure to have you on the show. Did you enjoy doing it? Oh yeah, it's fantastic, you know, being here with all these bebop stars and things like that.
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so phil under the stars su armedas and phantas asia jung de jungs and
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At number 37, stop, look and listen by Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders. which would move from 37 to 40 to 43 to 48. The Mindbenders are best known to us because one of the Beatles friends, Paul McCarty in particular, would be part of Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders. Yep, Eric Stewart. Yes. Eric Stewart was the guitarist and and would eventually become the lead singer of the Mindbenders when Wayne left. You better stop, look and listen before it's too late.
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Girl she'll make you think that you're the one that she adores.
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This is not a great song, but it's it's not bad. It's got a nice balance between you current and retro type elements. The lead vocals work and the guitar also works. And there's a nice fancy little drum break in there. Yeah, it has a bit of a retro, almost do up feel, particularly in the backing vocals, slight Cha-cha rhythm. I mean, it almost sounds like the Drifters could have recorded it in some ways. I don't find the lyrics particularly memorable or catchy. It's okay. It's just not something I would go back to and listen to that often. It's not a particular standout for me. wait another three years kit and you layer another version of it by peter and gordon
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Yeah, which is interesting to me because it's just not a particular standout for me, so it's I'm surprised that they recorded it. There's trouble over here. Cause she's one girl that you can never call your own. I know because she once said she was my own.
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We can forget the night She held me tight And told me that I'd always be her heart's delight You better stop Look and listen before us to wait
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Which of the two versions do you prefer, Martin? I don't know. I might prefer Peter and Gordon's for the way their voices work, because to me, as much as I like Kerik Stewart's guitar on this, to me, their vocals almost don't sound like the Mindbenders vocals, because they've not got that proto 10cc vocal styling that the Mindbenders would eventually have, and then how it would take from there and bring to 10cc. Yeah. And the B side of this single would be the Beatles Hamburg favorite roadrunner. Beep beep.
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Now that's a good song. You've got to put that in there. Yes. This is what happened one night outside of my house across the field. They was building a new highway, a speedway or a subway or something of her. But anyway, I was living pretty close to a road running nest. I was living pretty close to the nest and every night about 11 o'clock, this is what I used to hear.
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and a
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are
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da Every night I used to hear that. I caught one passing by my house one day and he was moving. He was really moving. He wasn't shucking at all. He wasn't jiving. And I got in behind him like this.
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Yeah, I'm gonna catch you! That's right! Baby, baby, you will see
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Just let me by, baby I'm a roadrunner, baby
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Gonna put some dirt in your ass
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Oh yeah, how we doing?
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Yeah, you say it fast. Yeah, that's what he says. But it don't let go last. Goodbye, honey. I gotta put you down. I'll see you somewhere, baby. Maybe somewhere hanging out.
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Eric Stewart, after he left the Mindbenders, that would be 1969. He went and purchased Strawberry Studios yeah along with Godly and Cream. Yeah. yeah And then, so following that, Eric Stewart would go on and play with Paul McCartney. He appears on tug of war, pipes of peace, press to play, and he is in Broad Street. Yes. And in the video for So Bad. Yeah, he's in the video for Take It Away as well, isn't he?
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lonely driver out on the road. Yeah. yeah yup And we got a little quote from Eric about when he first encountered Paul. A lot of people seem to be interested in your work with Paul McCartney. What was it like to work with him? Eric Stewart. Well, there's a whole great chapter in the book, his book, his biography, about me and Paul. The first time I met him, we were both doing an audition for BBC Radio. We passed the audition. Our group was called Jerry Lee and the Stagger Lees. Staggerly, named after that classic blues song. Indeed. Which also has a Houston connection, which we won't go into. Go on, we're getting the checklist out for this. That's right. Houston connection. chicago We got another Houston reference coming up here. The very short version is, years ago in a football playoff game, the head coach called a play called the Staggerly, which went tremendously badly. So the Staggerly is now cursed in this town. Oh dear.
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I couldn't. So anyway, the Beatles did not pass that audition. I sat there and watched them. The audience was made up of people who had been in the auditions. I was looking up at them and I said to my mates, that is the future of English music. And they all said, no, no, man, Cliff Richards in the shadows. They're far better. Oh, they released Let Me Do about six weeks later, and it was fantastic. I talked with Paul many, many times after that, because we were locals. Manchester and Liverpool, we were just 30 to 40 miles away from each other. I kept in touch with them all the way through his career and all the way through my career. And he actually ended up at Strawberry Studios, which as we know, was where he went with Mike McGear to record the McGear album. Of course.
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It continues from there. You can find this interview online. And it's an interesting interview. And, well, you can buy Eric Stewart's biography, which is also interesting. I've read it before. At number 38, Adam Faith with, I Love Being In Love With You, which would move from 38 to 35 to 38 to 33 to 38. Kind of got stuck in the number 38 position, written by Chris Andrews, whose songwriting we will come across again. and He will, however, arguably have a greater career as a songwriter where he would write hit songs for Adam Faith, Sandy Shaw, The Mamas and the Papas, The Fortunes, Susie Quattro, and Cher. Yes. Interesting.
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Each day I know more and more You're the one I've waited for, been created for I love every word you say Spontane in your own sweet way And for my whole life through
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interesting. This has like a slight country, twin to it, particularly in the lead guitar. But otherwise, yeah I just thought it was kind of a standard pop love song. I didn't think it was anything that special. Yeah. I mean, it's what you say. It's unmemorable. It's formulaic. Yes. A mix between middle of the road, soft Cliff Richard. Mm-hmm. Yes, I agree. It's actually not surprising that this came from Adam Faith, although normally he rocks it up a little bit more than this. I mean, even the writer, Chris Andrews, would go on to write better stuff. for he We'll come to it next year, but Yesterday A Man, which is his first solo single next year, that's a far better song, as is the Sandy Shore song Long Live Love. That's a great song. You're right, Martin. This is just kind of by the numbers.
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At number 44, Hold Me by PJ Proby, who we encountered last month. We talked about quite a bit and are around the Beatles feature. This song would move from number 44 to number 32 to number 31 to number 22 to number 17. It will eventually reach Number three. Now for our second Houston reference. PJ Proby was born James Marcus Smith on November 6th, 1938 in Houston. He is the great grandson of Old West Outlaw, John Wesley Hardin. He was born at Herman Hospital here in town, which is the same hospital where my dad was born. Oh, nice. I did not know he was related to John Wesley Hardin. I didn't either. Bob Dylan Connection.
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As to the song, I like the piano on there. It's not a great song. This is kind of another let's do Elvis, although not it's not a blatant copy of Elvis, but it certainly sounds like him in places towards the middle of the song when the harmonica comes in and it goes a little bit soul. The lead vocal is pretty smooth, but could have used just a little bit more dirt. I really like the guitar and we'll be talking about the guitar. Just shortly here, I can see why this song would have appealed to John Lennon. If you want me to remain romantic, here are all the things you'll have to do.
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Hold me, honey, won't you hold me?
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Well, first of all, this is an old song from 1933, which is why I was pretty surprised when the song starts out and from P.J. Proby, this kind of tender vocal. And then all of a sudden, I think I practically set out, wow, damn, when this harmonica kicked in after that tender vocal opening that came out of nowhere. I agree with you out on the piano. In fact, I would have liked to have that brought up a bit more in the mix. And in fact, I thought the mix in general was a little sloppy. Even when it goes hard, his vocal needed a little bit more sandpaper in it. Yes, I agree. I thought the vocal could have been a little more R and&B. His voice needed some grit to add to the yeah incredible grit that's on those two guitars.
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full And we've talked about Roy Head. Roy Head would have been a great one to do this song. so Absolutely. This is actually a very old song. This one goes back to the 20s and 30s. It was written in 1933 by yeah Jack Little, Dave Oppenheim and Iris Schuster. Little himself recorded the first version of this under the name Little Jack Little, and it would have gone to be covered by artists such as Eddie Duchin, Greta Keller, and Ted Fio Rito. I'm trying to remember how to pronounce that. The two guitarists on this version though, Jimmy Page and Big Jim Sullivan. Oh yeah, Jimmy Page was doing a lot of studio work at this time. They appeared at the studio. Big Jim said he wanted something with a bit of grit on the guitar for the lead part to differentiate it from what Jimmy was doing on rhythm. So Jimmy handed him his fuzz box, which is what Jim gets that really big sound with for the lead.
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Which was a brand new thing at that point in time. Bobby Graham on the drums as well. Beatles connection. Bobby Graham was one of the people the Beatles considered immediately after they fired Pete Best. yeah Wow. Bobby Graham, he was a fantastic drummer, top session drummer, live drummer, was playing with Joe Brown and the Brothers on a national tour. Of course, Bobby Graham turned them down. He wasn't going to leave London on this amazing career. for a group he'd never heard of, who'd only just got a recording contract. So he turned them down. The producer of this record is Jack Good, a name, again, that we mentioned quite a bit in the Around the Beatles episode. When I found that out, it's like, you know, PJ probably really is kind of Tony Sheridan light.
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If you think about it, yeah, yeah. Not quite as good a guitar player, not quite as good of a singer. But of course, you know, it's a little bit strange because Tony Sheridan never actually really made it big. So I'm not sure why Jack Good said, well, you're almost Tony Sheridan. That's kind of a backhanded compliment. Jack Good, he's a character in a half. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. So good to be back with you. Who is he, sir? Is he someone I should know? I guess you could say that Rock and Roll would never have been the way it is had it not been for my work in the late fifties and early sixties. Those were the days that I was a creative genius.
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He introduced the pop world a single handy version. I suppose he's a very obvious success. His student would become a legend in his own lifetime. An inspired, driven, ruthless, relentless, wonderful man.
00:57:12
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I'm still a conservative Catholic rock and roll. He actually started out as part of a comedy duo with Trevor Peacock. We discussed Trevor Peacock in the Around the Beatles special. That also explains why Trevor Peacock is there as Wall. I think if he gone on being an actor, he'd probably been a very remarkable actor indeed. Why didn't I do it? I wanted to do it and then so eke out a living, I was playing a double act with Trevor Peacock. This guy came up to me and said, do you want to be a television producer? And since I had just got married, I said, yeah, that's all I ever wanted to do was be a television producer.
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Jack Goode is the person who started the Six Five Special music television show in the 50s in the BBC. So it goes that that show was getting around 12 million viewers, but he was only being paid the equivalent of £18 per week. So he left to go and work for ABC and ITC, independent television company, where he created the show Oh Boy, which is another iconic music show. Oh, sure, yeah. That's why the Beatles knew who Tony Sheridan was, was because he was on Oh Boy. Over the years, he'd gone on to produce TV shows around The Beatles, Shindig, The Monkees' 33 and a Third Revolutions or something, Ed. 33 and a Third Revolutions per monkey. That was their special after their TV show.
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and then he produced records for The Vernon Girls, Joe Brown and Billy Fury, acted in films, television. He's one of the very few people that actually are in the film File the Goose with Cary Grant, if everyone knows that film, produced TV shows, films, wrote songs, acted, directed, ah you name it, he probably tried it. I have a quote from Darlene Love that Kit will really like. You ready, Kit? I'm ready. So Darlene said of Jack Goode, even after Shindig was a hit, the producer Jack Goode continued to get grief from the network about the, quote, colour of the show. And the more grief that he got, the more black acts that he ended up booking.
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My man. And we do specifically need to note that is the American network that she is referring to, not the BBC or ITV. Right. Yes. Wow. I like him even more. That's awesome. To end the P.J. Proby story, P.J. Proby would actually go on to play Elvis on the West End and the Elvis musical in 1978. And, you know, much like Clayton Moore, Proby would be dropped from the show, but he would still go on and say that he was Elvis from the Elvis musical.
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ah He came to a rather ignominous end where he was accused of not shooting actual bullets, but shooting pellet bullets into his ex-wife at the time. Sad story that it was a big scandal in Britain. Jeez. Wow. And after that, the Reubenews did a really cool cover of this song, so we'll we'll close on that. A happier note.
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Right? If you'll remember a few months back, the fellow who originally did this song was in the news. Seems he shot his wife with a pellet gun. Oh, it's really shameful. This one is called, Hold Me.
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When you're near me, I feel so romantic.
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oh god
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When you're far away, I'm always blue.
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If you want it, you remain romantic. Oh, sorry.
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Here are the things you'll have to do Baby, won't you hold me? Hold me Never let me go Alright, so the week ends with several songs which fall out of the charts. At number 45, there's still with anyone who had a heart, It's Final Week. At number 46, Tell Me When by the Apple Jacks, It's Final Week. At number 49, Stand By Me by
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Kinney Lynch, its final week, and at number 50, Ella's Can't Buy Me Love in its final week. A busy month on the charts, both American and British. So we are actually going to be doing something that we have threatened for several months now. We're going to go over onto an ABCND side. Join us for more of the British charts next week in part B of June of 1964. See you then. Take care.
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There was a piece in the NME, a news piece, that said the top rank records. Remember when top rank had a record label? and They introduced an LP series next week that will be called Toppamos. And it's coinciding with their current advertising slogan, topper most of the popper most. They got it from somewhere. They saw that. They must have seen that in either the NME or record mirror or disc, record and show mirror as it was then. And they've taken it from there. They've obviously thought how stupid that is. How stupid is it? It's one of those phrases that someone, an older person who doesn't understand teenagers comes up with a slogan that they think is going to be the hip slogan of the month. Top of most of the popper most.