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corto.alto
53 Plays3 days ago
Pete is joined by the Mercury nominated Scottish multi-instrumentalist, producer & band leader Liam Shortall aka corto.alto about his creative process & the importance of building a strong musical community to keep inspired & motivated.
This episode is sponsored by Slate & Ash.
Transcript
Introduction to Catching Light Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey, this is Pete from Ishmael Ensemble, and you are listening to very first episode of Catching Light, a new podcast which stems from my monthly radio show on SWEW FM here in Bristol, where over the years I've invited guests from the wider jazz and electronic music worlds to come on and talk about their process, their inspirations and yeah, their journey in music.
00:00:38
Speaker
And as much as i yeah love the radio format, I've always wanted to share the interviews in a kind of more long form way. So this is something I've been wanting to do for a while.
00:00:50
Speaker
um Yeah, we're going to have new guests on as well as dig into that archive for some of the older interviews that have taken place over the years.
Meet Liam Shortle: A Key Figure in Scottish Jazz
00:00:59
Speaker
And I'm delighted for this first episode to be inviting on someone I've been a fan of for a little while now.
00:01:07
Speaker
ah First came across their music through the Bristol label Worm Discs actually. but they are very much born and bred and proud to be at the forefront of the Scottish jazz scene at the moment.
00:01:22
Speaker
And that is Liam Shortle, aka Corto Alto. He was nominated for ah Mercury Award last year for his album Bad With Names and won the Innovation Award and Jazz Act of the Year last week at the Jazz FM Awards.
Artistic Process and Community in Music
00:01:40
Speaker
So he's certainly been picking up some plaudits along the way.
00:01:44
Speaker
We go deep into his artistic process, the power of community, the importance of surrounding yourself with inspiring and good people, touring with your mates, um, yeah, sharing hotel rooms, breaking down on the side of the road, all the good stuff of what it is really like to be an independent artist.
00:02:07
Speaker
And yeah, I guess share a lot of similarities in both our projects. Um, you know we both kind of put our face to it but the core of both groups is the idea of collaboration and working with others and that kind of brings up yeah I guess strange feelings sometimes because how do you go about sharing that intention and um yeah steering the ship but making sure your fellow collaborators are kind of seen and given the attention they deserve as well
00:02:41
Speaker
So we go into a lot of that.
Sponsorship and Tools of the Trade
00:02:44
Speaker
And yeah, it' was a really fun hour or so of chat. Before we get stuck in, I'm delighted to also share that this podcast is sponsored by Slate and Ash, an amazing software instrument company based here in Bristol, set up by Will Slater and Simon Ashdown.
00:03:03
Speaker
They create some amazing instruments that really have kind of changed the way I work. Used them a lot on the last album. And actually all the music you can hear below me speaking was created with one of their instruments called Primary Strings.
00:03:20
Speaker
um Yeah, they're amazing. I can't recommend them enough. And if you head over to their website, slateandash.com, you can get 30% off the full bundle package of their instruments. um Don't need any code or anything. Just head on over there and...
Catching Light Podcast Episode 1 Begins
00:03:37
Speaker
yeah there's some amazing youtube demos you can kind of feel your way around but yeah can't stress enough how intuitive and fun they are to play with um so yeah i'm delighted that they're getting behind this as well all right that's enough from me it's time to get stuck in so here it is the very first episode of catching light with liam shortall aka corto alto enjoy
00:04:11
Speaker
you
00:04:30
Speaker
Hey Liam,
Liam's Journey and Scottish Jazz Challenges
00:04:31
Speaker
how you doing? Hello, I'm very well, Pete. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. It's been quite a couple of years for you, right? It's been a real joy to watch. I kind of first heard about your stuff through Bristol, through the Worm Discs releases and through the trusty Scottish jazz envoy, Rebecca Vassmont, who we met on a wild night in Glasgow. Nice. probably like three or four years ago and she was telling me about all these amazing people coming through. Yeah, man.
00:04:59
Speaker
And yeah, it's just just been amazing to to see what you've been up to. um How are you short? I am good. Thank you very much for your kind words, Pete.
00:05:09
Speaker
And likewise to you, I love your music and... And I love all the music in Bristol. I mean, the Warm Disc guys, they were the first people to kind of take notice of what we we were up in Scotland. and And I released my first release on an actual proper label, which, you know, which is really cool at the time. I mean, I think in Scotland, we don't really have much infrastructure around like,
00:05:29
Speaker
Our only kind of jazz radio show was on BBC Scotland that got pulled last year and we had a jazz venue in Glasgow which also got shut down and we don't really have any labels apart from Rebecca's actually just set up label called Rebecca's Records which yeah she's been doing some really cool stuff with that but yeah in short there's not a lot of like that kind of structure around it so you know when the Worm Discs guys helped me out and released my first stuff I was ah was massively appreciative of that so There's always been like a big connection between us and Bristol, and every time we go there, we've had like such
Supportive Music Communities in Bristol and Glasgow
00:05:57
Speaker
a great show. I don't know, it feels like the same kind of vibe as Glasgow, where it's this kind of counter-cultural thing to London. Although, you know, there's so much London music I love, but I think um and just you know just like we are in Glasgow, we're very proud to be from Glasgow, and our music's from Glasgow. think I think that that's kind of mirrored in the Bristol mentality of making music as well. So yeah, i'm just thanks for thanks for having me on.
00:06:18
Speaker
and Am I blabbing? No, no, not at all. This is exactly... What was hoping you'd do? Sweet. I mean, it's funny, isn't it? You say about that like counterculture kind of DIY thing. We kind of felt exactly the same coming up.
00:06:31
Speaker
You know, it's funny. Like, obviously, London has had such a cultural impact on the world. It would be ridiculous to ignore it. But there's a different vibe. And yeah, I always find it funny going to London. It's just like you almost have to get into London mode where it's a bit more hustle and bustle. Yeah, I think the main difference when I come back to Glasgow is just I think it's less kind of fractured like the obviously because there's just an insane amount of music happening in London. There's these like sub scenes it's not possible for everyone to kind of know each other and work together. But in Glasgow, and I think it's probably similar in Bristol, where it's like everyone's making their own music and this is' all it's all very varied in terms of genre but you know you'll see the same people at each person's gig and all the artists are like supporting each other because I think that you know like even when we play, you know I look out to the crowd and and most of the people are other artists and I think that's that's a really cool thing and I think just the the size of the city it means like I live in the south side of Glasgow in Govan Hill but if someone invites me to like a thing in the West End which is about an 18 minute bus I'm like, I'm not going to that's so far away, like where would I go there? Whereas in London you're like prepared to you know treat... you know and hour An hour is not actually that bad.
00:07:40
Speaker
um But I think... but Where I live in in the south side of Glasgow, there's just so many musicians around here. All my friends, all the guys I play with in my band, we all live like five, ten minute walk away from each other. so I think that's that's what I love about making music here. and it's It's cool that you can just you know be working on something and then I can text Fergus who plays piano with me and he's like here in like 10 minutes and we' just have making so you know I can just get him over.
Touring Life and Musician Camaraderie
00:08:04
Speaker
and it's Like you said, it's a less hustle and bustle. It's a bit more of an easier easier way of life. but i know I'm sure there's there's there's cons that come with that as well, but every time in London I'm like...
00:08:14
Speaker
yeah my head's got exposed, but yeah. yeah yeah But that's it. It's funny. Yeah. I mean, for for us, definitely like our first ah experience, I guess, was like, we played the blue arrow and got this message out of the blue from Rebecca saying like,
00:08:31
Speaker
Oh, you know, love what you guys are doing. Would love to come down, show you around afterwards. And like next thing we know, we're going out sub club afterwards. Nice. For like Dom and Harry's like whatever it was, 25, 30 years of subculture. And, you know, it's just like this warm embrace, which for us, you know, having driven whatever, seven hours and...
00:08:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's that speaks to but how much of a legend Rebecca is as well. i mean sure We run a night called Glitch 41 which is run by myself and Mateus who plays sax in my band and Anushka Nanga, she plays trombone in Kokoro Kroko. She's an amazing trombone player from Glasgow. But we sat up this night in the south side of Glasgow and you know There's always people like coming through from down south and from up north and from wherever. And the number one thing I hate about music when I was kind of coming up was just going to jam sessions and people being like, oh, you don't know this tune, this obscure tune. People just like being competitive. and
00:09:24
Speaker
you know So this jam night is all improvised. there's It's all improvised groove music. So there's no like standards. There's no list you got pick from. what's the The beautiful thing about that is you might have someone who's been playing bass for two months playing with like Graham, who's like my drummer, who's been playing for 20 years. and He's an incredible drummer. and but But there's no hierarchy on stage. It's like everyone's equal and you just got to try and make music together. And I think that, kind of for me, is like what's special about Glasgow. It's almost like being too big for your boots and like i don't know acting the big man is is kind of...
00:09:59
Speaker
not just just Not only like not celebrated, but actually, like why are you being like that? Even if you know you're a really successful musician or you're she not playing live that much, we ever you know everyone's trying to make it happen and and make them make music together. because Inevitably, that's the kind of only thing that matters, really.
00:10:14
Speaker
um We're all going to be gone. I'm not actually a nihilist, but I think the ego gets left at the door a lot in Glasgow, which is something I love.
00:10:29
Speaker
think that happens here as well. You know, like you can't survive if you are that, you know I've seen it happen so many times, like it just doesn't work in a place like Bristol, Glasgow, where like, yeah, everyone, everyone knows everyone and words going to get out pretty quickly if, if you're, you know, killing the vibe or yeah.
00:10:47
Speaker
Yeah. Coming in with those big egos for sure. Um, Yeah, I mean, talking about Jam Nights and stuff, is that kind of where you met a lot of the the people you're working with? Because there's a big, big gang of you, right?
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I mean, we play, we have a seven-piece version of Corto Alto, but like last year we did about 90 shows and most of them shows were just four of us because we were doing more of European tours and you know it's like it's just so expensive. It's seven people, seven hotel rooms and seven plane tickets and it's seven checked bags. but Everything just becomes...
00:11:20
Speaker
exponentially more expensive, or maybe maybe not exponentially, but maybe linearly more expensive. If there's any statisticians listening, I'm sorry. ah Yeah, we kind of had to reduce, just out of just financial sensibility, had to reduce the band to four-piece. And that that means I'm playing a lot of, we use a lot of looping and I play bass, I play trombone, I play keys and sometimes guitar. But all them guys that I play with, whether it's the seven piece or the four piece, and sometimes we do three of us, most of them I've met while studying at the Conservatoire. And then they're all guys I've known for at least 10 years. And I think for me, that's really important when you're on stage making music and you're trying to trip each other up and
Performances and Creative Interactions
00:11:58
Speaker
have fun. And, you know, I feel like you could put the best
00:12:01
Speaker
four people, four musicians in the world on stage together, but if they've not like broken down on the M74 at two the morning and changing tires at the side of the road and done all that stuff together, which is like makes the tour, I think the music isn't as fun.
00:12:13
Speaker
And I think the audience can sense that. And I think that's kind of probably the number one thing I hear people say after our shows is like, oh, it's funny how you interact with each other and we're you know We'll like do stuff because we we play so much that we'll purposely try and trip other people up. like you know Play something that you usually play when you go into a certain section, but then play it early and then try and make people make mistakes.
00:12:36
Speaker
And then I just love doing that because it's like probably the music does sacrifice. You sacrifice a little bit of tightness for that. But just like the reaction on stage and like keeping everyone alive.
00:12:47
Speaker
You know, in the room, I think. And just, you know, it's like when you're on a tour, you're playing this kind of the same tunes every night. You want to keep it fun and different. um So yeah, I've known all the guys for so long and they're all like such close friends of mine as well.
00:13:00
Speaker
And luckily they're all very good musicians, but That's definitely not you know that's not what the first choice is for me. It's it's definitely the hang and how much you know and how much we get on. and I don't know. yeah i think I think you you know exactly what i'm talking about. yeah It's sometimes an interesting insight for people to hear because I think a lot of people think you know it's just like musicians put together. But I think a lot of projects, especially in what we do, are just... you live Your life is just like...
00:13:29
Speaker
making music so the only people you know are other musicians and that's like i think that's the reality the reality a lot of lot musicians lives is you don't really have friends i i don't really have any friends outside of music or which my partner has me because she's not a musician actually um but she's always telling me i should start get another hobby and make some friends but then i'm like you know i can't talk to talk to music to them so what are we gonna have in common yeah totally i mean for me the band anyway there's there's three of us that went to school together and you know we've all been playing together for a long time and it's funny when i started it because this project for me kind of started as like a solo producer thing and then wanted to get some friends in and turn it into more of an ensemble and that kind of sparked a few of them in a while
00:14:14
Speaker
you know there's all these six session musicians in bristol why not work with them and yeah for me it was always that kind of idea of you know friends first exactly that if you're broken down on the motorway yeah who do you want to be with probably someone you can comfortably ah swear at and uh yeah yeah it's funny It's funny because we were, for years, I mean, I'd still drive my own tours.
Balancing Touring and Personal Life
00:14:39
Speaker
I'm sure you're the same. like we don't i so ah I have my own van. we drive We drive ourselves. We like share hotel rooms. where We're still kind of living the the first tour life and you know in a lot of ways. And I think it we're quite reluctant to move away from that. Because i mean when we play in Europe, and you know what like, in when you play in Europe, they have so much funding that everyone gets their own a hotel room. And it's like...
00:15:00
Speaker
It's luxury, you get picked up from the airport. But in the UK, you're just like, you're left to your own devices. So where we'll we'll stay in the travel lodge, but especially when we play as a trio. There's me, Graham, and Matthias, and we'll always share like a family room in the travel lodge.
00:15:13
Speaker
And then when we go to Europe, and it's like, everyone gets their own key cards, and you're in the left, you're like, What room were you in? I'm always a bit sad. I'm always a bit like, oh, we're gonna miss the boys.
00:15:26
Speaker
That made me realize it's just like I spent more time with them two boys last year than, you know, I did with my partner. i did with my flatmates, with anyone, because we were just away all the time. and And then outside of that, you're just hanging out as well. So it's just like you need to make sure that people you play with, if you want to have a mileage,
00:15:41
Speaker
on the project, I think you need to make sure that there are people you can you can you can hang with. And that doesn't mean get getting along all the time because it's that's just unrealistic. I mean, you you do have mornings where you're someone's grumpy and and someone's taking the piss out of that person that's grumpy.
00:15:55
Speaker
But I think, yeah, just like just making sure that the people that you're you're working with you love, kind of fundamentally, you love them. And it just makes the music, it just benefits the music so much, having in them relationships.
00:16:08
Speaker
And you really like cherish the moments, right? like Because you hang out outside of the band, you kind of reminisce of like and there's all these funny, hilarious characters that you meet along the way. and Yeah, you know and some of them are some of them are in the band.
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah, totally. yeah um But it's hard. like i you know I'm sure you have this in my relationship. You know he kind of come home and you know my partner works a fairly normal nine five and you kind of forget that a lot of people don't have such an amazing experience.
00:16:44
Speaker
you know, experience in their kind of work life or whatever. Yeah. You know, kind of start to like list all all the places you've been and all all the things you've had. Some bad, some good, you know. It's like, it's an amazing thing to do with your friends, you know. And I think that's definitely something I've kind of realized. I mean, my dad has worked in a factory for a 35 years my mum works for the NHS I don't come from a family that of musicians or anything like that so I speak to my dad and he's like saying oh you're really lucky then you kind of go oh yeah yeah whatever because you're used to it I think actually kind of taking a breath and having gratitude for the opportunity to do that and to go around playing music and obviously sometimes it's stressful but fundamentally it's everyone that does this is really fortunate and I think it's
00:17:32
Speaker
It's sometimes easy easy to forget that and easy to kind of take it for granted. I have no idea what I would want to do if suddenly music was suddenly for some reason. or you know If there's a parallel universe where you know it just is it stopped being a a possibility for me, then i ah yeah I can't even think about what why else I'm doing. I think that is it is a complete gift.
00:17:53
Speaker
and yeah It's important to try and remember to be grateful for that. and That's something that I've kind of realized as I've got a bit older. is It's not taken for granted that you just get
Audience Engagement and Artistic Integrity
00:18:01
Speaker
to do this. and I came to your show last year in Glasgow and it was just like absolute ground. I can see that you've that amazement of that you go to a city where you're you're not really... And I have the same thing in Bristol. is that you go to We go to a venue in Bristol and then all these people show up and you're like, how do how do all these people know about my music? It's like yeah this weird kind of feeling and you're like, I'm always trying to think about that and like meditate on that, just try and realize that it takes a lot for someone to go out and
00:18:27
Speaker
spend their Saturday night coming to see your music and it's like, it's a, you know I'm really grateful for everyone everyone that that does that and continues to do that. And yeah, not, just not taking that for granted, I think is important as artists. We need to kind of, you know, take that in and and be thankful that people are willing to spend their hard-earned money and their hard-earned weekends, ah yeah you know, coming to see And I think,
00:18:47
Speaker
There is a fine balance, obviously, between kind of not oversimplifying your music or selling out or whatever you would want to say or kind of watering anything down just just to appeal to more people. But trying to keep your artistic integrity, but also trying not to over-intellectualize stuff and alienate people. And I think jazz is sometimes guilty of that. It's like...
00:19:07
Speaker
There's a temptation in making jazz music to try and make music to impress other jazz musicians, which is i think is just a really pointless feat because like I think your duty and your responsibility almost is to use this kind of opportunity that you have to spread music and to spread, i don't know, joy through music and not just like trying to use that to kind of promote your own egotistical needs i think through trying to get other jazz musicians to think that you're really smart and all this stuff I think that's kind of what I've come to and it and I love pop music and you know I think just because something's simple and just because something's easily explained by another musician doesn't mean it doesn't have as much value as as something that's really difficult to play I think I want to I do want to reach reach a lot of people with my music and I I think that is important. I think that's something that people go, oh, then, you know, that's that's not having integrity. But i think there's a way to think about them both things and balance them up with actually what is your purpose as a musician and like who are you trying to help?
00:20:05
Speaker
And, you know, yeah, i think that I think that's an important conversation that is kind of often, yeah, not thought about, especially in in jazz and kind of more fringe music. You know, we we don't have that responsibility to connect with lots of people when I think we should be.
00:20:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Totally.
Instrumental Music's Emotional Power
00:20:21
Speaker
And I mean, if anything, that's the kind of side of jazz that I think a lot of us anyway probably associate with is that it being a freedom of expression and trying to lose the ego at all costs, right? Yeah. It's about trying to kind of break free of all those things. So, yeah, it's always so it's such like a weird parallel with both sides of the music, you know?
00:20:44
Speaker
And I think that's, and I don't know how you feel about this and maybe you could let me know because I think... I suppose both of our projects are us, but for me it was like really difficult, especially after the last couple years and as my music has grown and the audience has grown, like trying to be the face of the music. when i I always was kind of more in the background, I wanted it to be music first and less about me and more about the music. But obviously at a certain point people want to know about the artist and you you kind of have to start like sharing stuff that maybe you hadn't before and not even like anything deeply personal but just like your story and I think especially as musicians and producers who don't sing on stage I think it's weird to be an instrumentalist and have this kind of yeah if you have your face all over everything because it's I don't know i've something that I kind of struggled with over the last couple years but now I'm getting more comfortable with and I think it's it's definitely been a process but um I always find myself like talking about my own music when I'm in interviews or something like that and then in the but back of my mind something's going like why should people care about you? Because I want it to be about the tunes and especially because my music is mostly instrumental and doesn't have lyrics and I think the power of instrumental music is this. It almost transcends implied meaning through lyric. Like even for me like when I listen to Dilla from one day to the next day they have two completely different meanings on different days because it just depends on what you're thinking about that day or what you're going through.
00:22:08
Speaker
It's been an interesting line to walk for me like trying to navigate how to, I don't know, put my face on it, but still make it more about the music than about me. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's weird. Yeah. I mean, for me, it was always like a producer project and always kind of has, but, you know, it's more about me wanting to make music with my friends or meet new people through the process of making music, you know kind of as a way of, yeah, meeting three but people through collaboration, I
Creating Unique Sounds and Sampling
00:22:35
Speaker
guess. Yeah.
00:22:36
Speaker
yeah for me kind of maybe similar to you in in you know very was kind of into that whole world of sampling and like making music from different places you know collecting sounds from different places and ah for me it was kind of getting a bit bored of the like digging for samples process and like you know bring up Jay Diller or you know, Madlib or anyone like that, that's kind of been done and probably a lot better and than you're ever going to do it. So my kind of mindset was, okay, well, someone's already found the perfect loop or the perfect sample, but I've got all these mates that play weird and wonderful instruments and have amazing voices.
00:23:15
Speaker
No one's going to ever have that sample. So let's get whoever round. And it started, do I remember? remember it clear the first day of recording ever frishman ensemble was the day of the brexit vote and mullins came over the guitarist and we we've been made for years what did you do we both just like looked each other he was loading his guitar up his van and we both just looked at each other like what have they done like what this is mental you know and for me that was the first realization of oh we're just in a bubble yeah like you know because left so confident oh but yeah this is never going to happen and then like for that to all just be realized in that moment and like
00:23:54
Speaker
should probably be a bit more cautious of just you know being sound Facebook and like what everyone agrees so exactly it's gonna be fine it's that echo chamber isn't it was the same in this the referendum in Scotland like oh I voted yes and every every one I knew voted yes and yeah We were out on George Square, I mean I was I think 2014, I was maybe 17 because I voted so um but yeah it was just everyone was so confident and then it came through as a gnome, it was just you know just couldn't believe it.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah it's crazy so I mean that that day is kind of etched into my memory but maybe for good reason in a you know in a positive way and yet it was all about that idea of just like recording your own samples and making music from it and that's still like my process now and even if i like work with you know collaborator you know working on a new record at the moment and that's what love is that like relationship of working with someone on something and then it kind of seems weird to them talk about that i don't know working with someone musically it's as if you've known each other for years do you ever feel that like you come away from it and you're kind of oh wow i've got like a really deep relationship with this person i've probably spent like less than five hours with in my life or something compared to someone you've probably spent 20 times longer with the you know i know that i that it's such and that that for me is like the the thing that i try and capture yeah so then to put myself at the forefront of that kind of yeah is a bit of a weird juxtaposition of I think it's interesting you say that about recording because I do that as well I would get people over and record them and then sometimes I'll tell them that you know sometimes I won't even know it'll be like a part that I've written for them and then the final version it'll be like completely chopped up and completely different just because that's the kind of background they come from is just like chopping up samples and people will like
00:25:45
Speaker
what? that's not what I learned. a I think yeah but what you're talking about, like you know having comfortability and and just like making making things feel easy. and I think that's what I love about making music at home rather than in a studio you've hired or something. Obviously you for some things i I do go into the proper studios but um I think there's a magic in just like having your mates around and then just you know like spending half the time just chatting about nothing.
00:26:10
Speaker
and drinking coffee and then like maybe you record a little bit and there's not this like weird like background ambient pressure to This is costing you 500 quid This one's costing me 500 quid and then you're just thinking that and you're like well should we yeah guys can we do another take here you know But and I'm lucky enough that I've got no neighbor i've got I live in a flat but I've got two floors and i live in a tenement in Glasgow but I've got my studio upstairs so there's no neighbours. My only neighbour is myself downstairs which which means when I'm making music and I'm properly deep in album mode i can ma i'll be I'll be working on stuff till the sun comes up and and oftentimes there'll be people here as well and we'll be making music and drinking whiskey and just having a good time. and
00:26:50
Speaker
I think when it comes to the album being finished and then I listen to stuff back, even obviously like once it's finished, I always kind of don't want to listen to it ever again. But then inevitably six months later, you're like, oh, listen to that. Or you're promoting something and you used they use that track. and And then you hear a little thing, you go, oh, remember that. Like
Recording Authentic Music Moments
00:27:09
Speaker
no we were receiving it after drinking never half a bottle of Ardbeg. We were just having a good night. And I think that's, I love them little memories and within the music rather than, you know, and like you say, like,
00:27:19
Speaker
the memories you have between people as opposed this kind of clinical like let's go and here's piano day and we'll do like yeah yeah 10 tracks that day and was very efficient i think you might sacrifice a little bit of quality but for the kind of energy that you have in the music and i think that kind of carelessness and the playfulness that comes through when you're just hanging out rather than you're like intentionally recording it's worth the trade-off for the not using a fancy preamp or whatever that that you might have done the studio I think especially with talking about audio, I think a lot of that stuff is prioritized over the essence of like what you're trying to capture. you know they actual The actual technicality of the recording is talked about way more than the kind of the setting of the recording and like the like we were talking about before, the relationships behind the recording and all these things that make a record really special rather than making it really polished. and I think for me that's always my thing and I do like
00:28:17
Speaker
recording well when I can and I do learn about recording techniques and I'm i'm not just like flinging mics everywhere and just like not caring about buzz although like I will do that if there's an urgency to capture something do what mean I think ah that's something I've learned is like you can get really into production and really into like what these but then even talking about mixing like people get so into mixing and it's like try and make these things sound like incredible but some of my favorite records are like some like terribly mixed or they're recorded on one microphone or it's like a Charlie Parker record or it's like average white band where there's like all the drums are on like one side and there's just all these like mental decisions they've made and but it's like them records are just like classic and they're amazing and no one cares about the mix
00:28:59
Speaker
So it is i think i think yeah I think that's something I've really had to unlearn is just like letting go about the kind of the right way to do things um and just like trusting yourself and also taking a bit of risks and going, I'll just, you know, I'll fix it
Ambitious Projects and Creative Freedom
00:29:13
Speaker
later. I'll just worry about it later. And you know what I trying to yeah trying to make an environment where you're recording, where everyone's comfortable and everyone's having a laugh and it's not like this high pressure thing.
00:29:24
Speaker
I think that's yeah that's important. But it's still ambitious, you know, like listening to Bad With Names, for me, it does feel like a really ambitious record in the fact it's got strings and, you know, a whole array of instrumentation.
00:29:41
Speaker
ah think that record in particular is yeah Literally just me during COVID yeah having way too much time and having way too much fun. Just like having nothing else to do but add stuff. like i mean So many of them tunes, there were loads of versions of them and then I would go back 10 versions.
00:29:59
Speaker
I was just playing around with different things and I just had a lot of time to, i don't know, explore musically and just like, I knew I wanted to make an electronic jazz record but that was the kind of brief in my head or like like, I want this track to be like this, it was just like experimentation and then at a certain point going, I'm sick of this, this is done now.
00:30:17
Speaker
Because that's the other thing, it's like knowing when something's going to be done, that's like one of the most difficult things for me and last year I did a 30 track album called 3108 which was, I released a new track every day for 30 days And compared to Bad With Names, that was very much like, okay, I've got two months to write, record, mix and master 30 tracks.
00:30:35
Speaker
And then we've got release them all. And we were touring as well at the time. So that was like the opposite of that, where I had no time to overanalyze. And then like every decision, it was like, the first thing that sounds good is the thing that I'm going to use. yeah So it's like even if it's like you're triggering a snare or like you're overlaying some synths, I didn't like go through, like take hours trying to make one little ambient sound. I'd be like,
00:30:56
Speaker
nope there's a preset like that it sounds good let's move on and it was just like I think both of them processes are there's so much to learn from from both of them and I think there's a time to apply really intentional like like listening and like really like trying to find what you need and then there's other times that you just need to go that sounds good let's move on yeah And it's just I think that's an instinctual thing where you just need to know when to do each each one of those
Releasing Music and Overcoming Fears
00:31:22
Speaker
things. and it It's definitely something I struggled with, like trying to know when something's finished.
00:31:29
Speaker
Because you're so vulnerable to letting something go. Yeah, I mean, like especially in a genre of music that is all about the moment and immediacy and capturing a vibe, right?
00:31:40
Speaker
think yeah That's kind of the music, I guess both of us make, you know, is is like, for me anyway, trying to capture that energy, which if you spend 50 hours trying to find a snare that sounds like it's capturing the energy in a moment, you're kind of losing from the get-go, don't Yeah, and but I think that, yeah, there is like, it's it's weird because I do like both ways of working. But yeah me for me, it's definitely knowing when to apply each hat.
00:32:12
Speaker
Because i've I've done it both ways of that in the extremes of, like I say, with bad for names, just like having, you i mean, I sure remember it's just like there was one day in March where every group chat on WhatsApp and every email thread I was on for the next six months about certain tours and gigs was like it's cancelled, it's cancelled, it's cancelled and then all of a sudden I had nine months with like a half-finished album to finish it. was like, all right, cool, well I'm just gonna do that.
00:32:37
Speaker
And like, yeah, that was i definitely overanalyzed a lot of that. But yeah, on the on the other side just, you know, having having no time and I think I don't know, think is' it's is's yeah it's it's interesting. I'm sure I'm gonna not get it right again.
00:32:51
Speaker
that' But that's just what what it's about, isn't it? Just like... as long as you lot you enjoy the process of trying and failing. For me, it's like when I try, like I'm sure do this as well, when you like make a demo and you're like really rocking out to it, you're like, oh, this is great. And then the next day you listen to and you're like, that is the one of the worst things i ever I've ever heard. and That happens to me all the time. I'm like, make this terrible music. But it's not about that. It's about like the way you react to that.
00:33:17
Speaker
I think it's like the, When I hear it the next day and I go, that's terrible. out' like Now I'll just laugh. I'll just say, it's so funny that I've wasted a whole day. But you might listen to it in six months and it's exactly the best thing you've ever heard again. yeah I think the biggest mistake you can make is going, oh, I've wasted all that time yesterday, could have done this, have done that.
00:33:34
Speaker
But like the reality is that's like part of the process. For me, I make like a lot of tunes and maybe one in 20 get to the stage of like getting actually written properly and recorded properly and produced andfinished and finished and mastered.
00:33:48
Speaker
And so many just never... will ever see the light of day but that's like the process is just like how many shots can you get on goal and then you're more likely to like actually come across something as a gem yeah yeah yeah um and i often i don't know i often often get people ask me you know advice on like finishing stuff and i'm always like start something else yeah and then like Just like getting arrangements down as quickly as possible, I find is the one, you know, it's almost like even if it's a crap song that you know, you're never going to enjoy. At least you've written a song as opposed to just like got stuck on a one bar loop for yeah forever. I don't know.
00:34:29
Speaker
And I think as well, like the when people ask me that, because now I've released quite a lot of music, and I think what was like a turning point for me was like actually not even just finishing it, but actually releasing it. Because a lot of people finish music, but then they don't release it. I think the releasing ah of it is like the mental block, releasing that mental block of finishing it, because you then that's where you share it with everyone else. And then you like let it go. And and and even now, when i'm before I release something, I'm like so nervous of like how people are going to react. and But then that's just egotistical. mean, it's not.
00:35:01
Speaker
People aren't going to like it. And people aren't going to like it. And that's just the reality. and there's never going to be one piece of music that everyone in the world likes so there's no point in trying to finish your music towards that goal because it just yeah doesn't happen like that I'm trying to remember the feeling of making it because that's why you kind of did it right you didn't do it yeah for other people to say how great your music is exactly rubbish your music you know and We certainly had that on the last record where, you know, it's definitely leaning way more into the electronic side.
00:35:33
Speaker
Partly because that's what we'd kind of been doing live, you know, we've been really enjoying kind of just playing over, you know, slamming four, four kicks and yeah that kind of then fed itself into the record. And,
Musician Community and Shared Experiences
00:35:44
Speaker
you know, you could just spend like hours trying to explain yourself where it's just like, actually, it's going to make some more music. Yeah, exactly.
00:35:52
Speaker
That's like a way healthier way of kind of working I find. business I think also remember, like, because I think a lot of the fear for me, especially when i was younger, i I don't really have this anymore, but it's like that kind of classic. I think it's ah definitely like going to music school thing as well. Like, oh, what's everyone else going to think about this? And by everyone else, I mean like other musicians who have similar projects or whatever.
00:36:14
Speaker
And I think what I've always realized is like anytime someone else is releasing music, my reaction is never like, Oh, I'm going sit criticize this. like, no, people aren't out to get you. And like, you know, people, it's like, it's like when you play live, if you're nervous, I think one of the main things for me to remember is like, anytime I go see a gig and I can see someone's nervous, like everyone in the crowd is like, Oh, like written for you and just want yeah you to do well. And it's the same with releasing music for me. It's like,
00:36:40
Speaker
I'm super proud of anyone I know who's taken that jump and released something and finished it. because I know it's a hard thing to do. and yeah I think you've just got to remember that most people are happy that you're trying to do a thing and you know it doesn't actually matter about it.
00:36:56
Speaker
and yeah nothing yeah nothing like nothing really matters i don't i don't mean that nothing really matters no no but like all like as we were saying earlier like living kind of vicariously through you you know you i don't know i met up with an old schoolmate a couple years ago and you know there's a few of us in the band that all kind of went school together and i was kind of coming from the angle like oh i've had all these amazing ah experiences you know if it all ended tomorrow or next week I'd be so grateful and so happy yeah for everything I've experienced his reaction was kind of like don't you dare mate there's like 20 of us from school that all seeing you guys do what you do like living through your experiences almost and like you kind of Not that it's a weight on the shoulders, but yeah, it's also that like I'm in a position where I can make another record and put another record out. Yeah. Do whatever, you know, like, why would you not grab that by the horns? And, you know, having always kind of done music and I'm so grateful for that having a thing that I'm so like insanely obsessed with because it's funny because like ah my friends from school, like none of them are into jazz or I mean, they all like just like
00:38:08
Speaker
were roasting me when I was at school, like walking and marching band, playing football. It was hilarious. But now like they'll come to my gigs and, yeah you know, we all we're all like almost 30 now. We're all living in Glasgow. They're not my closest friends anymore, but still see them around and they'll come to my gigs and they'll be like, I mean, I do not understand the music, but I'm just so happy for you. Like yeah you look like you're buzzing and all these people are buzzing. And I'm like, they like they're they're just proud of you, but they're not like,
00:38:35
Speaker
They would never listen to that kind of music. yeah yeah and you know I mean, i have this thing with my parents. they're like They have no idea what's going on when they come see me live. But you know they're they're just buzzing for me. And I know they wouldn't listen to that kind of music if I didn't make it.
00:38:48
Speaker
And I know they'd probably listen to some of my music and go like, what is going on like what this sounds horrendous but uh yeah it's like people are kind i think fundamentally and ah i think you have to when you are vulnerable and you release something you have to even if it's not people saying like people do just want you to do well if they know you and that's the only people that you should really care about you know their opinion is the people that you love and they love you and and even if your music isn't their thing it doesn't really matter because they want you to do well Yeah,
Liam's Early Influences and Music Education
00:39:18
Speaker
yeah. Amen.
00:39:18
Speaker
How did it start for you that how did if you didn't have a particularly musical household or upbringing? I was one of these kids where I would be like, I'm into BMXing. Yeah. Or I'm into like ice skating.
00:39:30
Speaker
I'll be like doing random things in Dumfries. I'm from Dumfries in South Scotland. Right, okay. And um I would just be like, every week I'd be like, just wanted to do something new. And I was never really good at anything, never good at sports. And then my friend Laurie,
00:39:44
Speaker
ah Laurie Glover, this guy that lived, he was at the same age as me, he lived a few houses down. He got a guitar and I thought it was like the coolest thing ever. and In my head he was like amazing.
00:39:55
Speaker
But probably he'd been playing for like a couple months but he could play, I think he could play Smoke on the Water and i just I was like that's so cool. And then I asked my parents if they could get my school to get me. I can't remember. I somehow got my hands on an acoustic guitar, which I've still got actually.
00:40:10
Speaker
It's not here, it's actually at my parents house. um But they got like his guitar and I got lessons from the same guy he was getting lessons from. And it became this little kind of competition like who's better at guitar. And then within six months he'd stopped and I continued. So it was that it started off by like me just wanting to out cool some of my friends. And I think that's what you're like as you a young man, or a young boy, you're just you know competitive with your but the other pals.
00:40:34
Speaker
other pis so yeah I just grew up in a time in Dumfries, I went to a primary school where they were trying out this thing called Soundstart, I think it was the first and last year. They had funding to give wind band instruments, so saxophone, trumpet, trombone, percussion, flute, clarinet.
00:40:52
Speaker
um We were in primary five, which I suppose is about 10. They told us to pick our three preferred instruments. So I chose tenor saxophone, alto saxophone. And I think my reserve was trumpet or drums or something.
00:41:05
Speaker
And then I got, I had mumps, which is some, I don't even know what it is. But I was in hospital for ah few days and then I came back and they had one trombone left. I was at the time very upraging about it. So I ended up playing trombone that year and then just yeah ended up loving it. And I just was like I said before, I was and just really fortunate to be surrounded by great teachers. And there was like a lot of incentives around music at that time Dumfries from the council in schools.
00:41:32
Speaker
So I ended up being in Dumfries Youth Jazz Group, which was like a ah jazz group made out of four big bands of kids. There was like a hundred kids and they were all in different big bands. And there was like band four, which was like the starter band. And you'd make your way up to band one. So it was this thing kind of,
00:41:47
Speaker
thing And there's so many great musicians from Dumfries that came from that time. And I think you don't really realize at the time how lucky you are to have something like that. But ah now it's like, you know, like, yeah, I would have never done music without that.
00:42:00
Speaker
And I think that just speaks to how important great music education and and teachers and I suppose even outside of that, just being if you're a musician, being an actively good role model to other musicians who are who are younger than you, who are trying to do this thing.
00:42:15
Speaker
Because everyone that we play with, that we know, has got a story of a great teacher or a great someone who was older than them. doesn't even have to be a teacher. Someone they played in a big band with who was playing the same instrument, maybe five, ten years older than them, who was nice to them and who... inspired them and I think that's yeah that's i I've just been lucky with that and then I started playing in the Tommy Smith Youth Jazz Group and Tommy Smith's this legend in Scotland he started the jazz course and he runs the Scottish National Jazz Orchestra and he's been really really kind to me and given me loads of opportunities so see I've just been very fortunate with
00:42:48
Speaker
with opportunities from people who at different times have taken me under their wing and helped me out and show me different opportunities and yeah and also like we were go saying before just the most inspiring people I think are the people of the same age as you who are doing the same or playing music as well because then you know it doesn't really happen by your own if you're on your own I think you're you have to be surrounded by like-minded people so yeah I've just been fortunate to be surrounded by lots of great people I think that's kind of how it happened Yeah, no, it's beautiful to see man and and there was a real moment last year, not not only the Mercury nomination but yeah, seeing that Barrowlands gig just seemed like... Yeah, that was mad. You know, there's there's a similar thing I guess in Bristol of like, you know, there's a pride of like coming from here, coming through here and like playing these iconic places that you look up to as a kid where you maybe saw your favorite bands or whatever. like
00:43:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think the Barrowland, that was really, really an emotional... Yeah, it was just such trip. I think as I got older and wanted to start making music, and like I said before, I was into like lots of rock and I was into kind of producing more electronic music. And once you make that decision to kind of do jazz and be an instrumentalist and go down that road where it's more, you know, there's more structure and you're trying to play in big bands and in kind of small ensembles, large ensembles, you're doing that thing.
00:44:09
Speaker
I think you kind of concede that you're never going to be able to play big venues and you're never going to be able to like do big festivals and stuff like that because you make music that's kind of in a niche that doesn't have the capacity to reach that many people. but And then doing that Barrowland show that's you know over 2,000 people in Glasgow, we sold over 2,000 tickets to that show.
00:44:27
Speaker
was just like, yeah, just something that, because I'd played a couple of times with pop bands with, just as a trombone player, like playing in a session. And I was always like, oh man, this is like maybe something I'll achieve if I like really really go for it for another 10 years. But for it to happen this soon, it was, yeah, it was amazing. And it' ah it was just weird to do a gig that size in Glasgow with the kind of music I make, which is like, you just don't, you look out and you go, why are, how is it, why are all these people here to,
00:44:55
Speaker
I was like almost like you wanted to go on stage. I was like, you know, there's no words. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's no one going to come and sing anything. But it's like this weird thing. You're like, why are you here? Like, yeah go do something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, it was amazing. And yeah, it's not, I mean, in no way it my doing, I think anyone who does this kind of thing, you you're half of your role is like curating other musicians and like you're kind of leaning on a lot of other people's talents all the time. And that's like what I'm doing. And I suppose that's what everyone does. But I think it would be unjust to like, you know, to take any questions.
Radio Show Aspirations and Jazz Resurgence
00:45:35
Speaker
full credit for that you know there's all the guys that played in my band the support bands that played my manager the label like everyone's helped yeah yeah always get to that point but yeah it was to play that venue where i've seen so many great great gigs and yeah it was just like it was definitely like the highlight of my career so far for sure yeah beautiful well maybe let's end it there um yeah it's been so great chatting liam no thank you so much for having me and we hopefully there'll be a a SWOO equivalent in Glasgow and then I'll get show and then I'll get you onto that. That would be amazing. I need to set that out but that sounds like something that's going to take a little bit of time.
00:46:13
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean it's such a shame, right, the jazz show you saying like... yeah Yeah, these things are kind of happening all around us and it's places like SWU that are kind of... yeah so glad there's something, again, as we were saying, like outside of London that can kind of... It's amazing. I mean, yeah, it's the same with, I mean, oh these even NTS and all these kind of alternative radio things. its It's so cool to have have stuff like that.
00:46:39
Speaker
um And I hope something like that happens. I mean, we did we do have that. It's smaller radio stations in Glasgow, but yeah, it's ah it's the grassroots things that are i keep this alive and keep it exciting.
00:46:51
Speaker
and But it comes back to that Barrowlands thing, right? Of like, this many people shouldn't be enjoying this sort of thing in this environment. Whereas like... yeah you know something like mts has tens of thousands of listeners every hour of every day it's like there obviously are people yeah well i think it's it's easy it's easy to think you're kind of programmed into that yeah thing of of believing that there's uh there's not that much of an audience but then i think i've been you know after being disproved like so many times i even go to like we out here festival and you go like there's
00:47:25
Speaker
like a hundred thousand people here or maybe not there's like 50 000 people at this festival and you're like how like what why do they do they know it's like oh mostly jazz but it's scars cool to see that i think it's the uk out of i think any country outside america and even maybe even competing against america is driving that like kind of the renaissance of this kind of music back just like i think we are we're so lucky to have so many good representatives of that pushing it around the world but i think it's cool it's so it's Basically, we we picked a very good time to be doing it, I think.
Conclusion and Future Podcast Plans
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But thank you for having me, man. It's been so nice to chat. And I'm sorry, I keep glubbing on. no no it's great it's great hey we'll have to do it over a beer next time yes yeah keen yeah liam thank you so much thanks man cheers well i hope you enjoyed that um that was liam shortle aka quarter alto in conversation what a guy um so genuinely positive and forward-thinking um Yeah, a real, real inspiration for myself and I'm sure other independent musicians that are finding their way in this crazy journey.
00:48:35
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed it. um We will be back very soon. Yeah, as well as new guests, I'm also going to be digging into the archive of some of the interviews I've done over the years.
00:48:49
Speaker
So I think there's some great stuff in there that, you know, didn't make the final cut for radio. So yeah, there'll be more long form conversation and hopefully you'll come back for more.
00:49:01
Speaker
All right. Thanks so much. This has been Pete from Ishmael Ensemble. Hope you have a wonderful day. Thanks for listening. Cheers.