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Season Seven: Miran-dangit
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In this episode, we talk about a triple murder committed by children on children in a small town.
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Transcript
Introduction & Case Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:25
Speaker
This is True Crime
00:01:01
Speaker
So I um remember this case. I'm sure that you remember it. I'm talking about it today because...
Media Coverage & Serial Killer Speculation
00:01:08
Speaker
Like, it's kind of wrapped up now. But also, ah've been dismayed by the amount of coverage over this case.
00:01:17
Speaker
which Like, part of me was like, you know what? We're not going to do that where we cover the thing that everyone's covering. But it's not like everyone's covering this. It gets a lot of video coverage. And I i think the reason it gets video coverage is kind of based on what's been released about it.
00:01:35
Speaker
um But the way that I ended up getting aware of this case or made aware of this case, there are these series of articles from like Click Orlando. So this does not take place directly there, but it's in Florida.
00:01:52
Speaker
So the first article i ever read about this case had the most interesting headline. This is from April, 2023. It says, far from the truth, Marion County Sheriff addresses rumors of serial killer after three teens fatally shot.
00:02:06
Speaker
When we pick up on this and it's really making the news, there've been like these dribs and drabs in the news, but like it comes out that people are talking about this as if it's a serial killer case.
00:02:21
Speaker
It's an unusual case in the fact that it's like three people dying in a very quick succession. um i don't know if you remember like the first social media post about this, but like the thing that stood out was that there had been a body in a trunk.
00:02:37
Speaker
Well, that's true. ah And it was the third body found in a very short amount of time. Right. And the third body found was in the trunk of the first body found car.
00:02:52
Speaker
Right. And like, I always jumped to like carjacking in a situation like that. I never jumped to serial killer, but social media jumped to serial
Crime Details & Social Media Reactions
00:03:02
Speaker
killer. Well, that's what, that's what true crime does, man.
00:03:06
Speaker
And what's interesting about that is I remember distinctly family members shining in and other locals. So on the comments of all the Facebook pages and Instagram pages about this, you had all of this information sort of coming in.
00:03:22
Speaker
and like when it's all said and done, it turns out some of that information was real. But like watching it in real time, you didn't know that it was real.
00:03:33
Speaker
Right. And at that point in time, I believe, so when it's first in the news and we're learning of the circumstances, because it is a bizarre situation, right? The whole thing was bizarre. and we had just been talking at length about how people who are found in vehicles like most of the time they drove themselves into the body of water that they ended up in. Right. And in this case, the body was found in the trunk.
00:04:08
Speaker
Right. Right. And so obviously that doesn't apply to that scenario. Right. The body would have been found in the driver's seat. And so immediately, you know, that sparks everyone's interest, but,
00:04:24
Speaker
From everything I can recall, ah I want to say we knew because the first, ah that well, actually,
Serial Killers vs Mass Shootings Discussion
00:04:34
Speaker
it was the first person that was found was still alive, right? Correct. And I think that they released that, you know, she had gunshot wounds. So I think we knew at that point that ah these were gunshot wound victims.
00:04:52
Speaker
And I immediately said, well, right there, that's not a serial killer. And that became like sort of a point of contention, not necessarily with you, but like, it's my opinion that most of the time serial killers don't use are guns.
00:05:09
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I don't want to I don't think there's a place for me to go. Yeah.
Sheriff's Statements & Victim Identification
00:05:15
Speaker
They use guns. No, they don't use guns. I think it's more, This would count in my head as either a mass shooting or a spree killing. And like the bodies just happen to be in different places. And we like, it's interesting because we get ah the opportunity to kind of see this go full circle.
00:05:33
Speaker
So this article That kicks it off at this point in time. ah It says after three teens were fatally shot last week, the Marion County Sheriff is addressing rumors surrounding their mystery deaths.
00:05:47
Speaker
Deputies said a 16 year old named Layla Silvernail was found shot on the side of the road Thursday in the area of Forest Lake Parks. It's a neighborhood down there. She was taken to a hospital in critical condition and she later died.
00:06:03
Speaker
So that gets confirmed along the way that she's passed away. The following morning, 17-year-old boy whose name was not released was found shot to death less than a mile away.
00:06:14
Speaker
The sheriff's office said another teen, which is who's a 16-year-old girl, is found dead with a gunshot wound on Saturday in a vehicle partially submerged near a loop trace. The vehicle belonged to Layla Silvernail, as you mentioned.
00:06:33
Speaker
But Marion County Sheriff Billy Woods shares this video saying, about the shootings. He denies rumors of another victim, and he denies rumors that a serial killer is on the loose. The specific quote they use in Click Orlando is, that is far from the truth now.
00:06:49
Speaker
That is far from the truth. Now, I have the facts of what we know right now, and I can give you that assurance. So do not speculate on social media, because one of the things I want each of you to try and remember when you start to type is that there are family members out there reading it.
00:07:06
Speaker
And some of you make shit up and it's devastating to that family and you need to stop. Was that a quote? That's a quote. That's a quote from this video that he has. This is a Marion County yeah video. Yeah. I believe that. Yeah, no, I believe it.
00:07:21
Speaker
um And it was, it was that kind of case. um What's interesting is like, as it goes along, They get a lot of tips that it might be quote unquote hybrid gang activity.
00:07:37
Speaker
And I had like that. So ah Click Orlando and News 6 down there. But that may be the Click Orlando, maybe News 6. But the news down there, they kept me hooked because like over three or four days, the things they were saying made so little sense.
00:07:53
Speaker
that I was like, what are they talking about? um Because the very next article says, tips of possible hybrid gang activity investigated in Marion, shooting deaths of three teens. um Would you like to elaborate on what ah your
Suspects, Gang Dynamics & Interrogation Tactics
00:08:08
Speaker
initial thoughts would be when you read hybrid gang activity?
00:08:14
Speaker
I like, so the thing that popped in my head was like, are they saying that like different gangs are like coming together to do something? are they saying like, it's sort of gang related, but not really gang related at all. It turns out that what they really meant was we have three idiots who pretend to be in a gang and behave as if they're gang bangers.
00:08:42
Speaker
Right. And that's exactly what I thought when I read, well, when I heard hybrid gang activity, it's like gang activity by people who aren't in gangs. Right. And that's kind of what they mean. But the thing about it is no matter what, they made they made me click.
00:09:01
Speaker
The clickbait worked. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Sheriff Billy Woods says in this article that the three teens that are the victims of the shooting – They were together leading up to the incident itself, which we kind of find out there's multiple incidents involved here along the way.
00:09:18
Speaker
But his quote was, there's information that we're being given that there's a possibility of hybrid gangs. And that's about it. I can't tell you who's associated, what gangs are associated or anything like that.
00:09:29
Speaker
It's going to be a long time before we find out that it's something like KTM is the the rumors that come in And the look on the kids' faces when they're interrogating them ah is, like, sort of ridiculous.
00:09:49
Speaker
And I'm not sure – like i'm I'm sure they wanted to be big and bad or whatever. But I'm not sure they had any concept of their organized activity being a hybrid gang activity.
00:10:04
Speaker
What did it stand for? something commit mentality. Cutthroat mentality, yeah. Right. And I can i think they really – wanted to have the facade of being like big, bad gang man members. And like, keep in mind, so gangs, I'm not an expert, but they typically form with youngish, or I guess teenagers and youngish adults, right?
00:10:33
Speaker
And going on up as they grow up, but it's people who, they have sort of a hierarchy system where, Basically, they look out for each other while they do a legal activity.
00:10:47
Speaker
You know, they form a family, so to speak. As we go along, the most interesting part to me is that, like, all of these, all of the suspects at the time, they're interviewed by police with their mother in the room with them. That was what I was going to say was at least two of these kids, to be, quote-unquote, cutthroat mentality,
00:11:13
Speaker
Gangsters. One, they're awfully young. Two, they spend an awful lot of time with their mommy. They absolutely do. And it's sort of ridiculous how...
00:11:28
Speaker
ah I take away from this case before I tell you how ridiculous this is, is that I would definitely find interviews to be more honest if you made most people's mommy sitting, and sit in the room with them. um Because that's part of what happens here. Although,
00:11:48
Speaker
i these interviews have sort of been splashed all over the place. I think one of the, um, interviews that I saw was like one of the explore with us, YouTube things that they put together and it's well put together. It's highly exploitative. it doesn't really give you the full story. It gives you a big chunk of it.
00:12:07
Speaker
and something else was called the couch detectives and those guys didn't hold
Media Ethics & Exploitation Concerns
00:12:11
Speaker
back. They just put back, they put out all, you know, 19 hours of interviews. Um, Well, right. And I wasn't sure that ah the quantity of the interviews was going to be worth the time as far as ah the Explorer that's kind of made it condensed and and combined everything. It wasn't like, I wouldn't say it's 100% accurate.
00:12:36
Speaker
I mean, it's not very inaccurate, but It you know cuts down on things, but it's a lot of interrogation to watch if you're going to watch the whole thing, right?
00:12:48
Speaker
ah One of the guys only had audio, so... I spent a lot of time listening and my, my point is i want to listen.
00:12:59
Speaker
So I hear it all. And then, you know, you get the condensed version, but, um, i did listen to all of the audio or I watched two videos and listened to one audio encompassing all of the interrogations of the three suspects.
00:13:16
Speaker
And, I felt like that, like I guess documentary, I guess that's what you would call it. It's documentary style, yeah. ah that was just over an hour long. i think I thought it encompassed it well for anybody who didn't want to spend like three days listening to all that stuff. Yeah. You know, I i find myself like listening to their stuff from time to time. um And I say that because it's on YouTube and usually there's a heavy video component to it. So ah they are definitely meant to catch your attention, suck you in. They get all the clicks, likes, subscribes, and everything. And i'm not I'm not really saying anything negative about what they do.
00:13:56
Speaker
But one of the things I did not like about this particular episode video, which people are free to watch it, judge it on your own. And I'm not going judge people for enjoying it.
00:14:09
Speaker
I just found it hard to swallow how heavily they exploited the immediate family members of the victims who were like sort of caught up in the rush of how crazy all of this was.
00:14:23
Speaker
And that part bothered me because they put a lot of body camera and audio in that was like some older folks who were like clearly caught in a moment where they're being told the worst thing they've ever heard.
00:14:38
Speaker
And that got played a couple of times in that video in a way that like it bothered me. Okay, so i would agree with that. ah I didn't think, I realized that I see what you're saying as far as the victim's family members perhaps not wanting everyone to see that. I completely empathize with that situation. I didn't think a whole lot of it beyond like, oh my gosh, that's so terrible.
Juvenile Justice System & Miranda Rights
00:15:02
Speaker
But ah you're right. i I generally disagree with that. I actually forgot about that until you just said it. But they do ah give several of the reactions, right?
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah, they give several reactions. And I'm not, I guess I'm not 100% down on that being made public. It just felt weird knowing that I'm watching this on a monetized YouTube channel. No, I agree that. That is included when the other parts of it are far more interesting.
00:15:34
Speaker
And like that part, like if they would have left out like the grandparents and the aunt, then i still would have enjoyed the video exactly the same amount. And I wouldn't have these questions walking away from it where I had the ick on me from having watched that part of it. And I think that stuff should be public record. I think you should be able to go and find it and a reference to it or like a of of brief blurb about it doesn't bother me. But when it it's, it was a focal point um in at least three parts of the video. And I was like, ah, I don't know about that.
00:16:08
Speaker
right I agree with that. ah But I kind of got you off track. So we can go back to the article if you want. well Well, I'm skipping to a different article now. This headline is, Boys 12 and 17 Arrested in Shooting Deaths of Three Teens in Marion County.
00:16:26
Speaker
Third teen saw it. So this is where we find out. And like this is quick. This happens within four days. It's actually, i've talking about the news part. Like, these guys don't seem to get away with anything for any length of time here.
00:16:45
Speaker
They couldn't keep their mouth shut. Right. So when this part pops up, we find out that a 12-year-old boy named Christopher Atkins has been arrested and a 17-year-old boy named Robert Robinson.
00:16:59
Speaker
So Chris Atkins goes by three five And Robert Robinson goes by Reaper. And i when they say goes by, I guess they gave themselves a nickname.
00:17:10
Speaker
um But in their mug shots, these are very young looking guys who don't fit these nicknames. I would agree, and I just want to point out, ah Robert Robinson's, it's Reaper as in like the Grim Reaper, right? Correct, right. As opposed to like Reaper as in like marijuana. i'm Right, it's R-E-A-P-E-R, yeah. I i actually, i was confused about that, and I don't know that anybody else will be, but I wanted to point that out. So it's Reaper like that.
00:17:44
Speaker
Right. So the take on April 7th kind of goes like this. A deadly shooting that left three teens dead last week in Marion County was the result of gang-affiliated juveniles turning on their own.
00:17:59
Speaker
According to Sheriff Billy Woods, who was at a news conference Friday, attributed the killings in part to failures of society. He says, there are individuals out there viewing and to include some of you media who want to blame the one thing that has no ability or the capacity to commit the crime itself, and that's the gun.
00:18:18
Speaker
These individuals committed the crime. So what's the solution? I wish I could give you the answer because this world would be a whole lot better off. But the fact is society fails it. We do not hold our juveniles accountable. We minimize their actions. School districts across the state and across this nation need to quit minimizing the actions of their students, hold them accountable. That's where the failure is.
00:18:42
Speaker
And I got to tell you, I do not think these are gang-affiliated juveniles. I do not think that the victims in this case, which he says,
00:18:55
Speaker
The result of gang affiliated juveniles turning on their own. I'm not sure how that lines up with all this are they talking about gang affiliated? Turning on their own are they about juveniles turning on their own?
00:19:10
Speaker
ah Because none of the people in this video seem to understand what to do or not to do with ah snitching that's for sure and they also don't seem to understand once they do snitch that that doesn't like alleviate them of the consequences of their responsibility in these actions uh this article goes on to say investigators located the three victims throughout the ah akalawa akalawa
00:19:44
Speaker
Throughout this local area in Marion County, within days of each other, they find the first victim lying injured on the side of the road March 30th. This is Layla Silvernail.
00:19:56
Speaker
She's 16 years old. She's going to die at a hospital. And at this point in time, the news is still saying a male juvenile was found dead of an apparent gunshot wound on March 31st. They're not pointing out a name yet, but this is going to turn out to be Layla's boyfriend.
00:20:12
Speaker
ah He's lying on the side of the road not far away, and a female juvenile found April 1st who had been shot and was located in and the trunk of a sedan partially submerged in a pond.
00:20:25
Speaker
Investigators said that the vehicle, a chev ah Chevy Cruze that belonged to Silvernail, carried six individuals at the time of the shooting, the three victims, and the three suspects.
00:20:36
Speaker
Two of the suspects were identified as Robert Robinson and Christopher Atkins, who both face first-degree murder charges. Robinson was arrested by Akala police the morning after the murder following an affray at school, already in custody at a juvenile holding facility.
00:20:53
Speaker
And Atkins was arrested Thursday at his house via a search warrant where they find a couple of guns affiliated with this. A third boy, Bruton, 16, is still at large, though Wood said the teen posed no further threat to the community, which I don't agree with.
True Crime Content Ethics Debate
00:21:10
Speaker
But deputies said the teen should be considered armed and dangerous. <unk> And he has this other quote in here. I'm talking to the viewers. Some of you know Bruton. You know where he is. and you need to turn him in. Now I will get him. I will find him. And justice will be completed.
00:21:27
Speaker
Robinson and Atkins both allegedly confessed to shooting the girl who was found in the trunk. Turns out that's maybe not 100% accurate. um But Woods continues to say they took a life, are y'all come come comprehending that? They took a life without fault, they deserve the full extent of the law.
00:21:48
Speaker
The bottom line is we're looking at like all these quotes from a sheriff. One of the things he says is, talking about the 12 year old, he says his involvement definitely, as far as I can tell you, is that he shot the third victim who was in the trunk of the car.
00:22:05
Speaker
i goes on to say that the group, the activities taking place before the shooting was the group were engaging in burglaries and robberies. And I don't know if he means the three or the six.
00:22:18
Speaker
When he says it here, um he said, although we had out there, it was gang related. We have nothing specific to say that it was any rivalry. However, each and every one of them in some shape or form is associated with the gang.
00:22:31
Speaker
Basically, in simple terms, there is no honor among thieves. At some point, these three individuals turned on our three victims and murdered them. When asked how the miners obtained the weapons used in the shooting, Woods said that the two had acquired that two of them had acquired theirs through car burglaries.
00:22:50
Speaker
um He said, yeah, i ain't that right? And there's like a murmur that goes through the press conference, and he kind of makes fun of that. And he says, all the gun laws who got in place didn't prevent that, did it?
00:23:02
Speaker
Neither will any new ones, because here's the fact. The bad guy's going to get a gun no matter what the law you have in place. These juveniles shouldn't even possess a handgun. but they did. Other details, such as the exact number of weapons used in the shooting could not be shared Friday, given how the third suspect was still on the run. he then credits the FBI, the FDLE, the marshals and the local police for helping him as the sheriff.
00:23:27
Speaker
Okay.
Juvenile Interrogation Tactics & Legal Reforms
00:23:28
Speaker
So mean doing their job. Exactly. Like this is a lot of bat, a back patting. And you know how much I love that, yeah, I'm not sure if he's blaming the people who leave their guns in their cars or if he's blaming the juveniles for breaking into the cars, but he's blaming about anybody that he can.
00:23:48
Speaker
But I don't know where he's headed with all of this. I get his frustration though. And I feel it even more in the interviews that like are uncovered in all these different videos.
00:24:02
Speaker
And they also have major problems with this case. One of those major problems, they have major problems with this case.
00:24:15
Speaker
One of those major problems is, you and I mentioned the moms in the room. um
00:24:25
Speaker
I don't think anybody understands what the words Miranda mean. They think they do. But the whole idea of getting your Miranda warning is to warn you. Warning, Miranda warning.
00:24:37
Speaker
So you've been Miranda-ized. That means, which is so weird to me that that became a verb, but you've been Miranda-ized. And at that point, the best thing in the world you can do, and I'm telling all of you at home this, tell all your kids, tell all your family, stop talking.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's correct. I feel weird in this situation for like coming across like I might be defending these people. I'm not defending any of the kids that are involved here. They did a series of really stupid, horrible, evil things, but also don't talk to the cops.
00:25:15
Speaker
Right. And so there's a line here that we often walk. ah People who are guilty of crimes should face the justice system. And in theory,
00:25:28
Speaker
get justice doled out to them, therefore getting ah the victims and their families justice for the wrong that they incurred. However, I have a feeling that the excuses like that you and I could make ah for Well, I don't know if you know, but like I can see the law. I can see law enforcement's point of view here, like as far as what they're doing. Right.
00:26:00
Speaker
And I can see where they think that like, oh, it'll be OK. Right. And, you know, obviously, yeah, maybe it will be OK. However, i know.
00:26:12
Speaker
From experience and ah other things that.
00:26:19
Speaker
It's not really okay, right? Like the way the way they're interviewing these kids? Correct. As far as the – we're talking about Miranda, right? Right, yeah.
00:26:32
Speaker
Okay. And so I'm – the spirit of Miranda encompasses the fact that – ah we have the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.
00:26:43
Speaker
And you have the Sixth Amendment right to be represented by somebody who knows the law, right? Yeah. Even at no cost to you if you can't afford one.
00:26:56
Speaker
Okay. And so based on that, there we've We've talked about this very recently, actually. Yeah.
00:27:07
Speaker
Based on that, so miranda became it was Arizona versus Miranda and like sometime in the 60s, I believe. and We spoke briefly about ah the right to counsel on one of our Christmas episodes.
00:27:24
Speaker
It might not be either last year or the year before, Right. what about the case that did that now you know it's funny that case didn't really get anate like it doesn't have a name like miranda w writes do Right.
00:27:37
Speaker
right I'm astonished. You know what, Gideon, by the way. We call it Gideon, but yes. Oh, right. Yeah. That's what I mean, though. But people don't necessarily... Well, maybe they do. Do they know that? I don't think so. No, I don't think know. Okay. Not like Miranda, because literally police officers Mirandize people. Right. They read them their Miranda rights, and the case literally called Miranda.
00:28:05
Speaker
ah The person involved, that was their last name. And the point is that they have to be, that anybody in police custody that's being interrogated for a crime, which means you're not free to leave, right? Correct.
00:28:23
Speaker
yeah And, you know, there's a line there that, you know, has to be distinguished in every single case, practically, if it's brought up, right?
00:28:34
Speaker
and I would have to say that
00:28:42
Speaker
the spirit of Miranda is not captured in the way that it's followed. Now, we talked about how Miranda became a thing and it's a it's a national thing.
Interrogation Ethics & Legal System Proposals
00:28:55
Speaker
Every single law enforcement agency in the United States would use ah Miranda warnings ah to express any person being interrogated before them or being arrested.
00:29:11
Speaker
That's how they express their rights to them. It's a group of words that have been put together to say, if you say this to somebody... you've given them notification of their rights as required by our Constitution, Correct.
00:29:28
Speaker
cool And it's generally accepted by the courts as fulfilling that obligation on ah under the power of the state when law enforcement do that. And recently, we talked about how...
00:29:43
Speaker
the interpretation from the other side of it. So Miranda covers law enforcement side of it. And the interpretation from like everyday average citizens being on the receiving end of Miranda rights, like that law is largely, or the case law surrounding what encompasses truly understanding Miranda,
00:30:08
Speaker
like is I don't think it's got anything developed, but it might. And it's going to continue develop over time, right?
00:30:19
Speaker
Right. Yeah, and there are other cases that were paralleling with it, and those all get kind of wrapped into the Supreme Court decision. Correct. And so my point being that the spirit of ah the Miranda ah case law, so it's basically...
00:30:40
Speaker
sort of the law of the land with regard to making sure law enforcement respects citizens, uh, fifth and sixth amendment rights to not incriminate themselves and to have access to legal counsel in criminal cases. Okay. The spirit of that is the,
00:31:03
Speaker
the Law enforcement agency working a case should be able to make the case independent of the perpetrator.
00:31:16
Speaker
Yes, incriminating themselves. Okay, because there's evidence, right? And evidence speaks for itself, right? You don't need somebody on the other side of that. And...
00:31:28
Speaker
The idea isn't to read the Miranda rights really fast and get them to sign real quick and you've covered your ass. Okay. Now I know, you know, that that's mostly what happens.
00:31:45
Speaker
Yeah. is the answer It's a tick mark. it's It's a box that they're checking. Yes. That's exactly what it is. Um, for those of you don't like know the whole thing, I'll give you the three sentence version of Miranda.
00:31:59
Speaker
Back in March of 1963, guy gets arrested by the Phoenix Police Department. His name is Ernesto Miranda.
Media Influence on Justice & Juvenile Rights
00:32:06
Speaker
ah This is because he's wanted in a kidnapping and rape of an 18-year-old girl that had taken place.
00:32:14
Speaker
Recently, I'd say within the last couple of weeks, he gets interrogated at the end of that interrogation. He signs a confession that includes a statement. That statement is, I do hereby swear that I make this statement voluntarily of my own free will with no threats, coercion or promises of immunity and with full knowledge of my legal rights, understanding any statement I make may be used against me.
00:32:38
Speaker
At no point in time had they told him about his legal rights, and he signed off on this. So it's going to kick around from 1963 to 1966, and his court-appointed attorneys at trial make a huge deal out of the fact that he did not know what his legal rights were.
00:33:03
Speaker
And he didn't even know that he had a right to a person to tell him or help him understand his legal rights. That is how we get to Miranda v. Arizona.
00:33:15
Speaker
ah There's another case you can read about called Escovita versus Illinois that was going on with some of the same things. But this case is the one that ends up before the United States Supreme Court.
00:33:27
Speaker
I think it's ruled on in 1966. I don't know what month, probably probably summer term that came out. um But Miranda v. Arizona is a very, very important thing, and it is not a checkbox.
00:33:42
Speaker
In these confessions that are running from this Florida case that happened more recently, it's kind of treated as a checkbox, don't you think? It absolutely is. Like, I feel like those investigators actually believe that they followed what's required.
00:34:00
Speaker
Right. And I will say that we mentioned early, there's moms in these interrogations. Because it's interesting, when you're under the age of 18 in the United States, you have a different type of sets of rights as juvenile.
00:34:16
Speaker
And the sheriff complained about it in some of those quotes that I was throwing out there. um one of the key things is like your parents should probably be present or whoever is your guardian.
00:34:29
Speaker
And they are also afforded certain rights to help you understand these things. And I think where you're headed with all of this is that it's pretty clear with this 12 year old and the 17 year old and their mamas in the room. We don't really get to see as much with Taj Bruton because it's audio.
00:34:49
Speaker
um but But in these two video interrogations, it's pretty clear that mom and son in both instances really don't understand what's happening or their Miranda rights or any of their other legal rights. But also, it's pretty clear, and I hate to be the one to do this, but going to do it anyways, the police don't understand what they're talking about.
00:35:11
Speaker
I agree. ah For one thing, Robert Robinson was in custody ah correct for a different situation. And he was brought ah over from juvenile holding to be interrogated.
00:35:28
Speaker
Correct. Okay. And so there's a point in time Where he is Mirandized, but it's in it's pretty far into the interview, right?
00:35:43
Speaker
It's deep in there, yeah. Okay. And his mother's there. um However, as things progress...
00:35:54
Speaker
I don't know how much his mother being there helped the situation. It certainly helped law enforcement. And in the mindset of like the the ends justifying the means, ah perhaps you could persuade yourself, right, ah that it was okay. However,
00:36:15
Speaker
ah the way I look at it is the Miranda exists because – when you look at ah the adversarial nature of you know the people versus the police like you don't, nobody gets to make that call. Miranda makes that call for them. Right.
00:36:38
Speaker
yes And so in several places, eventually Robert Robinson's mother leaves the room and she goes to talk. ah She's in the building. She's talking to other people before she leaves the building. And in that time,
00:36:58
Speaker
Robert tells the, ah I guess it's a deputy outside the door, I want to talk to my mama before she leaves. I want to talk to my mama before she leaves. And then when the deputy's like, yeah, yeah,
Juvenile Confessions & Legal Implications
00:37:11
Speaker
we'll try. And he's like, well, if I can't talk to her, can you just tell her to get me a lawyer, please?
00:37:16
Speaker
Right? And he says it over and over and over again. And it's incredibly clear to me. At this point in time, ah he was never free to leave. He was in custody to begin with. Okay.
00:37:31
Speaker
Right. he He was not picked up off the street. He was not, he didn't come in on his own accord. He was brought to the facility to face additional charges. Right.
00:37:44
Speaker
for And he was already, i don't know what the initial charges he was in for were, but he was at the juvenile facility. right He was arrested for an assault. like it it It read as an affray, like he was being held in juvenile until they could determine the charges. Okay. And so he was in ah he was in custody. Now, okay, so he was never free to leave.
00:38:10
Speaker
Right. So that means he should have been Mirandized from the jump. Right. Okay. And he wasn't. And even after being Mirandized, his mother having left the room, he makes it very clear, at least to whomever he's speaking with outside the door...
00:38:31
Speaker
that he wants an attorney. Okay. Get, tell my mama to get me an attorney. And again, this, this kid is 17 years old, right? Yeah. he brings, uh, again waives his rights. Well, though his mom also reiterates back through whoever's delivering the messages there. I believe you're right. It's a deputy that, that he is going to get an attorney. Like they're going to figure out how to have an attorney come talk with him.
00:38:59
Speaker
Correct, but in the meantime, um Robert waives his rights again. They then bring him a form to re-waive his white rights, which I don't think you can do with juvenile Miranda in Florida or juvenile Miranda in most places. Well, it wouldn't matter because even if they could do it...
00:39:21
Speaker
Mom's not in the room. this Well, it doesn't matter that mom's not there. The spirit of Miranda is if you have a kid sitting there talking about, like, I want an attorney, okay? Right.
00:39:34
Speaker
you are You are violating the spirit of what Miranda's supposed to stand for by, like, essentially ignoring the statement and continuing the interview and having him sign his rights away. Because they preface...
00:39:50
Speaker
the situation with, well, unless you sign this, you can't talk to us. And see, this kid had confessed and he thought he was confessing and he was going to get something out of it.
00:40:02
Speaker
Right. Like in, in some sort of leniency or consideration was going to be given to him for snitching. Those are his words. Right. And if he had had an attorney from the beginning, okay.
00:40:17
Speaker
Like from the beginning, Like, when he was brought in, if he had said, I'm invoking my Fifth Amendment right, I'm not talking to you without an attorney, like, he probably could have gotten a deal, possibly. I i don't know.
00:40:32
Speaker
It's possible. But he had absolutely no chance of getting one, like, without an attorney, right? Right. Because he literally, his mother fussed at him, and he literally confessed to like multiple times in multiple different ways. So this kid was in trouble already. He had done bad things.
00:40:55
Speaker
We, I still don't know exactly what bad things he did, but he, he was, he was not a good kid. Okay. But are you talking about this instance or in general?
Media Narratives & Legal Outcomes
00:41:09
Speaker
I'm just saying that, What I'm getting at is them ah justifying what happened as far as him like saying, well, he kept waiving his rights. I'm just saying like it doesn't matter if he's a good kid or not.
00:41:25
Speaker
Hold on, hold on, hold on. So in the course of what Meg is talking about here, what you have to understand is we're not coming at this from the perspective of boo-hoo prisoners' rights. Right.
00:41:41
Speaker
We're coming at this from the perspective of there's a problem with these interrogations, a major problem. And that is this. You have three kids brought in. So Robert Robinson is 17 years old.
00:41:54
Speaker
Taj Bruton is 16 years old. Christopher Atkins is 12 years old. The sheriff has decided they are involved in the execution-style killings of 16-year-old girl named Layla Silvernail, her 17-year-old boyfriend, Michael Hodo Jr., and another 16-year-old girl named Camille Quarles.
00:42:17
Speaker
So if you guys want to hear the story of what happened to them, you can go listen to those videos. But here's the problem. As they're interrogating these three kids, two of them with their mama,
00:42:31
Speaker
No, all three were with their moms.
00:42:35
Speaker
I think he, I think it says he has a juvenile counselor in the room. I don't think, I don't think it's, I think it's a person from the detention center. Are you talking about Taj? Yeah. His mom is there. Yes. Okay. Okay. So they're interrogating these three kids with their mothers in the room.
00:42:50
Speaker
Two, we have video. One, we have audio. They're all lying. The cops are all lying. And the moms are the only ones in the room being honest. So what ends up happening is you get three very distinct stories of what happened to Michael Hutto Jr. first, and then Layla Silvernail as part of witnessing what happened to Michael Hutto Jr., and then dealing with Camille Quarles as a sort of witness, even though she's in the trunk of the car for some reason.
00:43:25
Speaker
I don't fully understand when she gets in the trunk of the car, She was in the trunk the whole time because there wasn't enough room. Right. They're saying there was only room for five passengers and they sometimes ride around like that, whatever that means.
00:43:39
Speaker
But we're not arguing just about the rights of the defendants and how Miranda matters, but we are. The second part that comes into play here is if you don't do what me and Meg are talking about correctly, right?
00:43:57
Speaker
If you don't sit down and go over all these very, very important things, you can really screw up a criminal case, which in this case, they do.
00:44:11
Speaker
They screw it up. That's correct. And all I'm saying is, like, it was clear Robert Robinson wanted an attorney. Right. And that does not change from second to second. Okay. The fact that he, you could, i I mean, I don't know that it was coercion, so to speak, but the fact that you can get somebody to sign a waiver, it doesn't change the fact that they all knew he wanted an attorney.
00:44:41
Speaker
Correct. There's no question about it. and and And you can tell because he's even talking about getting a deal. And that happens with attorneys, not you know not kids sitting in interrogation rooms. And the police never want you to have an attorney because essentially ah when you have a criminal...
00:45:07
Speaker
charged or possibly are going to be charged criminally, your attorney is going to say, you can't talk to my client. Okay. And the reason is the evidence can be gathered by investigators and can tell the story of what happened without the perpetrator, the suspect, whoever's in custody, giving an account of it. Right. Right.
00:45:35
Speaker
That's the idea behind it. i know I feel like those
Juvenile Justice System Challenges & Solutions
00:45:39
Speaker
police officers ignored his Miranda rights. yeah I'm 100% positive in in Robert Robinson's case. okay And again, his his interrogation goes on forever. He was never free to leave.
00:45:56
Speaker
And he states repeatedly. By the way, his mom never came back in the room. i'm I'm just saying, like, they never brought the mom back, which, because he was saying, why don't you get me and a ah what can you tell her to get me an attorney? That demonstrates clearly to me that he does not understand the dynamics of the situation, okay?
00:46:16
Speaker
He's asking the deputy to relay to his mother to get him an attorney. Right. That's never going to happen. Okay. And even though she said, don't talk to my son anymore, they still persist in talking to him. Now, what should they have done?
00:46:39
Speaker
I'm going to go with if we are really being ah constitutional rights oriented, i feel like they probably should have called the public defender's office.
00:46:49
Speaker
They should have. That's what should have happened here. like that That is in in most jurisdictions, certainly the jurisdictions that i am familiar with in terms of work, that's what happens.
00:47:02
Speaker
Well, and and that's what I was kind of curious to know is, and so are my expectations too high there? no I mean, the the cops sometimes try and get around it. with Like, this is heavily videoed. So there's video of this happening. There's audio of this happening. When that's going on, you know, the trick is to call the public defender's office. And here's what's happens here's what happens, like,
00:47:26
Speaker
ah This happens to happen in Florida. It happens in my jurisdiction. When you do that, the chief public defender for your jurisdiction appoints a lawyer, and that lawyer comes over, and they just walk in and have a private conversation off the record with that kid.
00:47:40
Speaker
They confirm that he wants an attorney. they If they have to, they talk to the parent. um Most attorneys working in a juvenile situation like this would shut the interview down.
00:47:51
Speaker
And that interview can open back up later. And the cops know that. And the because of, so so the story we kind of get, I got to tell you a little bit of it um in order for you to understand why I'm saying this about the attorney.
00:48:05
Speaker
The story that we get is that Robert Robinson, Christopher Atkins, Taj Bruton, they're in the back seat and that Michael Hodo and Layla Silvernail are in the front seats of this car.
00:48:19
Speaker
Depending on which one is talking, Michael Hodo gets shot. Layla Silvernail gets shot. The car ends up outside this dumpster where Layla is dumped after Michael had been dumped on the side of the road. And somebody pops the interior seat and fires a shot into Camille Quarles' back and a shot into her head.
00:48:43
Speaker
So depending on like where you are in this interrogation, those things get attributed to different people. And it's actually quite messy. The initial interrogations, if they stop where they're left, including with Chris Atkins and Robert Robinson.
00:49:01
Speaker
And at this point, Taj is sort of irrelevant, but they have used the information they have about Robert and Chris against them. So if it stops and a lawyer comes in and shuts down the interview, they don't have a clear picture of responsibility, ah particularly for Camille Quarles and the trunk of the car.
00:49:22
Speaker
And it's a little muddy who shot Michael versus who shot... Layla, so if you wanted to just set up a deal here and you wanted to at one point offer Chris Atkins some kind of immunity for his testimony and a lawyer comes in and shuts it down, it it screws the whole thing up.
00:49:44
Speaker
And then if if you wanted to do that with Ronald Robinson because you believed that Chris Atkins had not actually ah been truthful ah or Ronald Robinson had watched Todd shoot. it's Robert. Yeah.
00:49:56
Speaker
okay Robert Robinson,
00:50:02
Speaker
lost a thought. um if you wanted to have Robert Robinson be the one to get a deal because you thought that Taj and Christopher were involved in the shootings, but a lawyer shuts that down, you get really lost really quickly once that momentum happens. So that's what the cops are thinking when they're trying to figure out like, what's the way forward to CYA. They don't seem to have real clear leadership at these police departments or the sheriff's department. Like they have a guy who's like having a lot of press conferences and I am sure he thinks that he's just Billy badass of law enforcement, but he almost screwed up this triple homicide.
Social Media & Juvenile Crime Perceptions
00:50:42
Speaker
He did screw up this triple homicide. I was going say, I don't, I don't think almost is appropriate in that sense. So, so for, for that to be understood, I have to read you the state's attorney statement, if that's okay.
00:50:55
Speaker
It says Cala, Florida. um this is dated, ah I think recently, right? Let me see if I can find this because the state's attorney for some reason puts out press releases that don't have dates on them.
00:51:12
Speaker
um I'll find the date in just a second. It's in June of, ah it's after June of 2025. The most recent thing? Yeah, it's sometime after because that's when they.
00:51:25
Speaker
Okay. um i think I think this press release comes out July 2025.
00:51:31
Speaker
It says, today, state attorney Bill Gladson announces the final resolution of the 2023 triple murder case after all three defendants entered pleas earlier this year.
00:51:42
Speaker
The defendants, 19-year-old Robert Robinson, 19-year-old Taj Bruton, 15-year-old Christopher Atkins, were sentenced for their involvement in the execution stock killings of 16-year-old Layla Silvernail,
00:51:59
Speaker
17-year-old Michael Hodo Jr., and 16-year-old Camille Quarles.
00:52:07
Speaker
Defendants Robinson and Bruton were sentenced to life in prison. Defendant act and defendant Atkins was sentenced to 40 years in prison. All three defendants were charged as adults. Justice demanded nothing less than full accountability, said State Attorney Bill Gladson. These convictions honor the stolen lives of Layla, Michael, and Camille while affirming that no one, regardless of age, may brutally take the life of another without facing the gravest consequences." Between March 30th and April 1st, the bodies of the victims were found discarded.
00:52:38
Speaker
Layla Silvaner was found lying near a dumpster with a gunshot wound to her head, barely alive, and died later in a hospital due to her injuries. Michael Hodo Jr., who was also shot in the head, was discovered along the side of the road. Camille Quarles, who was shot two times, was found dead in the trunk of Layla Silvaner's partially submerged vehicle.
00:52:58
Speaker
The case was presented to a grand jury in May 2023, which indicted Robinson and Bruton on three counts of first-degree murder and Atkins on one. All were also charged with armed robbery and evidence tampering, although Robinson was 17 years old, Bruton was 16 years old, and Atkins was 12 years old. At the time of the crimes, the premeditation use of the firearm and callous disposal of the body showed a level of intent indistinguishable from adults.
00:53:23
Speaker
The youngest defendant, Atkins, pleaded guilty in April 2025, agreeing to testify against his two co-defendants. Bruton pleaded guilty in June 2025, with both him and Atkins accepting pleas that include a minimum of 40 years in prison. Robinson pleaded no contest in June 2025, avoiding a trial.
00:53:43
Speaker
ah Our office would like to thank the Marion County Sheriff's Office, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, U.S. Marshals, and the or Orlando Police Department, who helped piece together more than 200 tips, witness statements, and forensic leads that brought this case to a close. We also thank Assistant State's Attorneys Rich Buxman and Toby Hunt for prosecuting this case.
00:54:02
Speaker
I'm pretty sure these plea deals and these 40-year sentences for two of them come out of the fact that, like, they're trying to avoid future motions for appropriate relief.
00:54:14
Speaker
um so It was two life sentences and one 40-year sentence. No, Taj Bruton has the possibility of parole. So that's a 40-year sentence as well in Florida.
00:54:27
Speaker
Robert Robinson got life without parole. Taj Bruton pleaded guilty in 2025. He and Atkins accepted pleas that include a minimum of 40 years in prison. That's what that's the press release.
00:54:40
Speaker
Okay. Robinson had pleaded no contest, which is why they penalized him with a life without parole for the no contest plea. So Robinson pleading no contest. Guess what that means?
00:54:53
Speaker
He has appeals. Correct. Correct. um The other two, they can only go with emotions for appropriate relief. So that means some... Go ahead.
00:55:04
Speaker
There's also a mandatory review at 25 years for anyone that's... Under 18? Yes. Does that include all three of them then? ah Yeah, it includes Robert Robinson as well. Yeah. they it's Interesting. i It's a mandatory review. Now, granted...
00:55:23
Speaker
it doesn't necessarily mean it's anything more than a rubber stamp that yes, they should continue to be in prison. Right. Right. Uh, that was in that was, i believe in response to the case law that came up as far as, uh, cruel and unusual punishment being bestowed upon, the under 18 offenders. Gotcha. Yeah. I follow you So that they should all be eligible for that review. Again, that doesn't really mean much.
00:56:02
Speaker
um I want to read a little bit more here and see what you think of this. So this is an article from that day when the press release gets released to the public. It says teens 2023 Marion County, this is Click Orlando, ah teens in 2023 Marion County triple homicide get life sentences.
00:56:21
Speaker
ah Two people who were teenagers when they were arrested in a triple homicide case in Marion County will go to prison for life. Taj Bruton received three life sentences for first-degree murder and a fourth life sentence on a charge of robbery with a firearm. Bruton also received eight years and seven days for evidence tampering.
00:56:39
Speaker
Bruton was 16 when he was arrested in the killings of three teenagers, 17-year-old now 17-year-old Michael Odo Jr. in March of 2023.
00:56:52
Speaker
Robert Robinson was also arrested for the killings. He was 17 at the time. On Wednesday, Robinson was sentenced to life to five life terms plus 132 months in prison.
00:57:04
Speaker
At the time of the arrest, Marion County Sheriff Billy Wood said the killings appeared to be a case of gang-affiliated juveniles turning on each other. During the hearing, Judge Robert Hodges asked one of the state's witnesses if Robinson ever said why he did this in the first place.
00:57:20
Speaker
The investigator with the Marion County Sheriff's Office answered the why was because of wanting a firearm that Mr. Hodo had. That's not what I got out of the interrogations, but I assume that's the end result.
00:57:36
Speaker
Did you get the sense that they were kind of blaming the kids for hanging out with the kids that shot them? um Like blaming the victim children?
00:57:49
Speaker
Because they're also children. They're all children. Well, I mean, the hybrid gang activity, the like all of it, I mean, a little bit maybe,
00:58:01
Speaker
but I'm just not really sure. I'm not really sure what they were getting at. It's interesting, though, because um my understanding of the entire situation, and this is one of those cases where ah they all gave confe they all snitched, so to speak, and in their snitching, they all painted themselves in the least culpable way possible. They minimized their own involvement, yeah.
00:58:30
Speaker
Correct. Okay, and so... It's my understanding that
00:58:37
Speaker
ah they called him Sosa, Michael Hodo. yeah And that he had a gun. And there's it was mentioned that Layla was known to carry a gun, but she didn't have it on her.
00:58:53
Speaker
And somehow they knew that. I'm not really sure exactly you know how credible that is. It doesn't really come up that much. But they did take...
00:59:04
Speaker
Michael Hoda's gun off of him. However, it's not entirely clear who was motivated to do that.
00:59:15
Speaker
Right. Because it seems like ah two guns were used and that
00:59:26
Speaker
three five They call Chris Atkins 3-5. That Chris Atkins had a gun and then Robert Robinson had a gun, right? Right. So that would, it seemed to indicate that Taj was wanting the gun.
00:59:40
Speaker
Now, okay again, we don't have all, we have, well, we do have information, but it's all conflicting, right? all of the information with regard to what gunshot, whom, when, and who was holding it, it's not completely clear. that ah There was no trial.
01:00:01
Speaker
So the evidence never comes completely out to see, like, exactly. How the pieces make the puzzle picture. Correct.
01:00:12
Speaker
And, you know, to me, it seems like
01:00:19
Speaker
And maybe it's not relevant. maybe Maybe it doesn't matter. And I'm just picking at this situation. However, perhaps only because of his mother, Robert Robinson appears to try and cooperate. Right. Right. And...
01:00:40
Speaker
He initially says that Taj killed all three of them. That's how he put it. And I think he didn't want to get Chris Atkins in trouble. So he was somehow, you know, trying to shield him. But he ends up not doing that even.
01:00:57
Speaker
And with DNA on the guns that they did in fact find, right, they found him at Chris Atkins' house after... Rob Robinson was talking. Now, do they get to anybody else if Robert Robinson doesn't talk?
01:01:17
Speaker
I don't know. i do happen to think that it is unlikely Chris Atkins would have been found because he didn't have a phone.
01:01:28
Speaker
Right. okay so Somebody had a snitch on him, basically. I think so. I mean, you could tell me that Possibly, i could see possibly if somehow he had left his DNA behind that they might have got him through genetic genealogy if somebody had, you know, ah DNA in a system somewhere. But because we are talking about a triple murder, right?
01:01:58
Speaker
yeah there's a lot of work that goes into a triple homicide. Right. And so i don't know that I don't know that Chris would have been found without somebody saying he was there. He was 12. Okay.
01:02:13
Speaker
And ah Robert Robinson, I think he told somebody. Yeah, somebody appears to have been talking based on the way they come up with information, and the shortest link to that is Robert Robinson because it appears to also be the reason that he's in juvenile detention.
01:02:33
Speaker
correct Correct. So he was picked up on, ah like, a violation of... His current juvenile sentence.
01:02:44
Speaker
Correct. because So to me, that means that they were already, like... putting this together. Right. And if you watch the interrogation at the very beginning, his mother says, well, he was with his parole op officer the day that this happened. Right.
01:03:04
Speaker
And it's, I don't know. It's a little bit, wonky to me because that was not the case and I wasn't sure if the mom was just mistaken or you know what was going on but it immediately starts falling apart right and there were certain parts of that ah interview that made me like really think to myself what is what is the right thing here right because essentially
01:03:38
Speaker
At that point, based on what was said, if they said, we want a lawyer, and it was shut down, they could have independently got it If a judge allowed it, they could have gotten a search warrant for his phone, right?
01:03:52
Speaker
Right. And they could have seen if you know, whose cell phone was with the victim's cell phones. And it's as simple as that, really, right? I think...
01:04:05
Speaker
Yeah, it is that simple. But is that enough alone, okay, to carry out, you know, a trial and get them all convicted?
01:04:17
Speaker
Because otherwise, there's six people in the vehicle, three of them died, and three are alive. And without one of the alive victims,
01:04:29
Speaker
ah people in the vehicle speaking, though they will never know what happened, right? Not truly. No, they could they could get close, but they won't know who shot who, and they won't know who all was in the car.
01:04:42
Speaker
So I'm torn on that with regard to, like, essentially, my teenage child would never be speaking with police.
01:04:55
Speaker
And I don't say that to be anything except, like, conscious of the fact of like the matters that happen. Right. Right.
01:05:06
Speaker
And it's not that I wouldn't, uh, I'm okay with my child being held accountable for any sort of criminal activity if they committed it and they could prove it. Right.
01:05:18
Speaker
It's just without being able to prove it and independently, I'm not going to go off of what the police say Now, we have the whole felony murder concept. And if you recall, they all basically admitted they were going to go car hopping. That was why they were all in the car together.
01:05:39
Speaker
And to them, car hopping was when they rummage around in people's cars and they're looking for guns, but I assume they take money or, you know, whatever else.
01:05:49
Speaker
And it's actually like a fairly common. It's a very common occurrence for a group of teenagers to get together and go along and jiggle the handles on car doors and open every one that's unlocked.
01:06:01
Speaker
Right. And then they take what they take and, you know, it, but it's kind of, like I don't think they're going to take a bunch of garbage, like out of people's cars, but you know, that's why you have to keep your dog, your doors locked, which is sad, right? I mean, it sucks that that's the case, but that's what they were all together doing. Now, does that rise to a felony level?
01:06:22
Speaker
ah Yeah, it's a felony because so the way that that gets it to being a felony is because it's been done so many times and so many guns have taken that states have decided it's a felony. to So it's a misdemeanor to break into a car.
01:06:36
Speaker
It's a felony if you walk away with anything, and it's a serious felony if you walk away with a firearm. Okay. And so, you know, this is the way these kids were getting guns. And what kind of comes out during ah the interrogations, which, again, we get different versions, so we're not entirely sure what happened, but there was a man who met up...
01:07:01
Speaker
with the kids in, I guess, a parking lot to buy a gun. And essentially, they took his $200, raised the gun, and told him, you know, to get the heck out of here or you're going to die. Right.
01:07:16
Speaker
right So they stole the money, right? Correct. And that's a like a robbery, right? That's not just car shopping. Yeah. Okay. And so, you know, the police had been ah notified about that already because this man is thinking he's going, you know, and this happens all the time, like gun ah swapping or I don't know what you call it, but, you know, where you sell your gun to someone like,
01:07:42
Speaker
I don't think it sounds like a good idea, but I know it happens, right? Right. ah People sell guns. And he was looking for a legitimate situation, and they were looking to steal money, right?
01:07:54
Speaker
Right. And so it was a little bit, and well, it was a lot crazy, actually. And and so there's... It's odd to me knowing, like if it was planned that they were going to kill those kids, it's odd that they would have pulled that crime that night.
01:08:17
Speaker
Yeah. Because it's literally giving like more information to police, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't know why they did what they did here. i mean, do you, so let me ask you this.
01:08:32
Speaker
Three people are dead. Do you think they got the right three people that killed those three people? Most likely, yeah. Yeah, I don't think there's any way. Just based on how they talk during the interrogations, I don't see any of these kids being completely innocent. Even if it's like you said, sort of felony murder rule adjacent or acting in concert Right. I think that except for Chris Atkins, which I'm not saying he should get away with anything. I'm just saying, like, if Robert Robinson is...
01:09:06
Speaker
wanting an attorney and like false positively waiving his Miranda rights. I don't know that that's the right phrase, but if he's waiving the Miranda rights, his own Miranda rights, while he's also saying, I want an attorney, right? Clearly there's a disconnect there. We've talked about how the laws on that side of Miranda aren't,
01:09:33
Speaker
necessarily clearly established there's a little bit here and there right but it's nothing like miranda is where like this is the exact thing every cop that takes someone into custody has to say before they can question them if they're going to use the information in the case right right that's not to say that you can't like The cop can sit there and talk to the person about not the crime. That doesn't really matter. It's just once you've got someone in custody, you've got to inform them of their rights. So he was in custody already. So when they brought him over, he he wanted an attorney. He thought he was ah somehow, not knowing how the legal system worked, he thought he was going to get leniency, right?
01:10:24
Speaker
For giving up people, for snitching, as he put it. Right. He thought that from the very beginning. And to me, that screams that he did not understand the rights that he was waiving. Okay. Whether he signed the paper or not. I just, he didn't understand what was happening. And he gave them Chris Atkins' name. Right.
01:10:45
Speaker
Okay. Right. And without that, I don't know that they get it. are they it They definitely wouldn't have gotten it right then. Okay. But his mom says, and he says during his interrogation, Chris Atkins says, I did not have a phone.
01:11:00
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So there was going to be nothing to link him. Right. to the situation and let somebody talk. And so do I want those kids to get away with murder? Absolutely not.
01:11:12
Speaker
I don't. it Do the ends justify the means? Well, in the end... Robert Robinson pleaded no contest, right? So right he acknowledged that there was enough evidence if he went to trial that he the state had enough evidence to convict him, right? Yeah. and then Chris Atkins and ah Taj Brutan, they ah both pleaded guilty,
01:11:45
Speaker
Yes. and okay So Taj Bruton was already in trouble for a carjacking that occurred in August of 2022. He had had an electronic monitoring device on his ankle and was in what they call like juvenile supervision, meaning he basically had a probation officer.
01:12:05
Speaker
um When he took that electronic monitoring device. It was just a couple of weeks, like it was in March of 2023. It was a couple of weeks before these murders happened on March 30th into April 1st.
01:12:21
Speaker
He had also been accused of robbery at gunpoint with a deadly weapon. So that carjacking with a firearm ended up getting him 20 years in prison. That robbery with a deadly weapon actually occurred on March the 18th, which is one of the crimes, supposedly, if you go through social media, that all six of these kids are present for, or some some mixture of them.
01:12:48
Speaker
It's not just the three that are charged here. Some of the other kids are allegedly present on March the 18th. um I don't know how that goes, but he he gets life in prison for that robbery with a deadly weapon.
01:13:03
Speaker
Right. And and again, you know I'm not arguing that that these kids were great kids. They made bad choices, but they are kids, right? I just can't figure out like why these other three kids are with them at all and if they're hybrid gang affiliated, as the sheriff said so eloquently in that first press conference.
01:13:25
Speaker
I feel like, now it's funny, the sheriff said that their actions made it justified for them to be tried as an adult.
01:13:35
Speaker
Meaning that the fact that they dumped Layla's body, they dumped Michael's body, and then they left Camille's body in the trunk, and they like the car was barely even pushed into the the lake because they couldn't get it to move. like You can hear all these... It's... it's thick The...
01:13:54
Speaker
confessions, I guess it would almost be funny if three kids didn't die. Right. Cause it was just like this, it's a ridiculous juggling of like, I guess stating accurate facts, but like they insert other people when it's them. Right. I feel like that's what was happening. And, you know, i was trying to get some like cohesiveness Like, keeping in mind that all three of them, except for Chris, really, like, once it kind of came out, he I feel like he didn't try and blame anybody else, but Taj and Robert both, they blamed each other, essentially. They... they
01:14:38
Speaker
literally made each other the other person, right? they they So Robert was like, Taj is this maniac, and Taj was like, Robert's this maniac, right? right And I'm going, well, maybe they both are, and I split the difference, right?
01:14:54
Speaker
like So perhaps they really did want to do this, or perhaps you know if they're hybrid gang-affiliated, we know that... um Robert Robinson had at least, I don't know if it was real or fake, but he had a KTM tattooed on his hand.
01:15:10
Speaker
Right. Either a tattoo or pin marks. Or something. Right. and Because it comes up during the interrogation. Correct. Are they trying to um you know be gang members? Right.
01:15:26
Speaker
i I don't know a whole lot about gang situations. My understanding, though, is that if they were trying to be part of a gang, start a gang, have a hybrid gang, whatever we're talking about here, like it could have been like unwarranted boasting that caused this to occur.
01:15:51
Speaker
right like I mean, the whole thing, like the whole shooting and everything. Because otherwise, like you're going to kill your associates for a gun, basically.
01:16:03
Speaker
Well, they did, and they got to join a very special gang. that gang is the Imprisoned Youth of America. So they will have all the members that they can handle and all the crimes they care to partake in in a very safe environment to do so.
01:16:21
Speaker
So the very understanding group of peers. And, you know, perhaps the ends do justify the means. I don't know if I don't even know that, I guess right now would be the time if they were filing for post-conviction relief. I'm not really sure about Florida, but usually it's about, you have about a year, right?
01:16:38
Speaker
Yeah. I think there's some in the works. I don't, I haven't seen it all, but I do think, I think there's some going on. Mainly motions for appropriate relief is what I think we would see.
01:16:51
Speaker
Right. Do you think that Robert Robinson should have been aware that he, like, you talking right now is what you should do, and you're waiving your Miranda rights, and you're not going to get a deal for this?
01:17:04
Speaker
Do you think that, like, that would have been appropriate? mean, that's really good question. i Like, I'm not sure... That Robert Robinson understands that the left shoe goes on the left foot and the right shoe goes on the right foot.
01:17:21
Speaker
Right. So could he really waive his Miranda rights? No. I mean, like, I think, but then, you know, we've got mom involved. i Like, I don't know how far his, like, he him pleading no contest, I think if...
01:17:39
Speaker
he convinces someone that like he might actually get his case looked at by one of these innocent scripts or something, even though there's a partial confession, um, depending on and if there's like DNA taken from all of those.
01:17:52
Speaker
Uh, and cause that's the big thing for the innocence industry. Um, or if there's, you know something to indicate that like the role he played was different than what he represented. His is weird for because I feel like he doesn't necessarily understand the first Miranda, but his mom's in the room.
01:18:13
Speaker
And my thinking is with her in the room, nobody asking for a lawyer, that first part of his confession is probably valid.
01:18:26
Speaker
I do think anything he says after mom leaves the room and they make him re-wave, I think it gets chucked, but I don't know how helpful it is to the case of Robert Robinson, like as far as state of Florida is concerned. um A lot of that might have been ultimately used against the other two. Yeah.
01:18:48
Speaker
Well, right, but all that was self-serving for him, right? I think so, yeah. grain of salt I mean, I don't know what he did in that situation. It seems to me like in all the gang-related nonsense I've ever heard about, if there's three perpetrators in a car and three kids get killed, more than likely one of them killed each of them.
01:19:15
Speaker
Correct. Okay. That's just, you know, and I and i think probably, you know, that's what law enforcement was thinking. And I feel like it was... some sort of something. It had something to do with something besides stealing a gun that equally didn't matter, right? Like proving they could kill somebody or, you know, something stupid that would be like pseudo gang like, right? Right.
01:19:44
Speaker
Something like that, that were that you and I and our listeners are never going to understand, right? We're never going to understand why they would do that. I just wonder I feel like if you take the entirety of his interrogation from start to finish, which is very long and there's lots of pauses in between, i think there's absolutely no question to me that ah he trusted ah and his mom.
01:20:12
Speaker
And when she told him to spill it and she yells at him, right? And I would say that that's some duress. Now it's not the state putting duress on him, but the state...
01:20:23
Speaker
is having her in there, right? Yeah, they I mean, they're allowing her to stay in there as well, on top of having her in there. um But, like, they continue the interrogation with her there, and she freaks out a couple of times. In fact, like, the other interrogation, i think, is where they take the title for the Explore With Us video, if you guys want to find it. I think it says mom horrified after 12 year old's confession on YouTube. So that would be Atkins, Chris Atkins mother. And she is horrified as is Robert Robinson's mother.
01:21:02
Speaker
don't know that that type of duress would count like in a way towards, you know, post conviction proceedings. Right, and the moms, you know, to their credit, as far as that goes, like, I think that Robert Robinson, I don't know, I think that Robert Robinson's mom was surprised. Okay, like.
01:21:20
Speaker
Oh, she flat out said early in the interrogation, i think it's hers. He's not a murderer. she She says, I believe the other things that you have him because they list off, like, what they're looking into. And she flat out says, like, those things where he's, like, stealing the side-by-side and this other thing, I believe those.
01:21:39
Speaker
But the murder, I don't necessarily, I don't believe that. and But I think she believes by the time she leaves the room. ah Yeah, I think it's possible. And I just, I wonder, I guess it it ultimately, just to be clear, so they've put their case together. They pieced it all together. I'm still not sure that they ever got like cohesive, like this is actually what happened version, but it was close enough. And then with attorneys, they made plea deals.
01:22:14
Speaker
And when plea deals come into question, no judge rules on whether or not Anything having to do with your Fifth and Sixth Amendment rights were violated as far as interrogations go, because none of that comes into evidence. There's no trial, right?
01:22:34
Speaker
Right. And most yeah of the times when you take those plea deals, you're waiving most of your appellate rights. That's correct. Yeah. and so So that could be all gone out the window and doesn't matter anymore. Well, because they're ah they were juveniles at the time of the crime, I think that there is going to be some sort of recourse. I'm just not sure as far as, guess, and and I don't want this to happen, but I am not sure had it gone to trial, i don't know that these kids would have been convicted.
01:23:10
Speaker
Um...
01:23:14
Speaker
i
01:23:18
Speaker
I don't have a good, like, i don't have a good feel for how they all would have gone. But I think that might be why we get this kind of plea deal. Exactly. Because everybody else doesn't have a good feel for how this would have gone at trial. I think you're right. I think there's the possibility that the sort of cross-blaming that happens, like, could...
01:23:42
Speaker
I think it could soften the blow, but I don't think you get three kids dead, three suspects arrested. And as far as I can tell, this is my take on it. I think they shoot the driver first from whoever's in the passenger seat of the backseat.
01:24:03
Speaker
with the three of them. I think the other person ends up shooting ah passenger or vice versa. And I think they force the kid to kill the girl in the trunk so that everybody's got a body.
01:24:19
Speaker
I think that's how it goes. Well, that would be the way to keep everybody quiet, right? Right. But the opposite has happened here. everybody talks to a degree. Okay.
01:24:30
Speaker
And Robert Robinson said that he had been with Taj previously when Taj did things and that he hadn't snitched on him. Right. That was his whole premise. And like, I think they said that, uh, they were going to steal Michael Hodo's gun. And so I think that,
01:24:52
Speaker
the shooting of Layla and Michael had to happen nearly simultaneously. oh yeah, yeah. That's what I meant, yeah. Because, i you know, he had a gun. And so, and then Robert said Layla typically carried a gun, but he mentioned he didn't see it earlier. i don't know. i don't really, they didn't get into that. But the idea would be, like,
01:25:17
Speaker
If they both had guns, like you you don't want to shoot somebody knowing that you could. Well, you shouldn't want to shoot somebody any but way. But I'm just saying like when you're doing a threat assessment that if you know somebody's got a gun, if you're going to do that, you you've got to take them out. Right. Right.
01:25:37
Speaker
Because otherwise they're going to pull their gun and you're going to die. Right. Right. And so I think it happened nearly simultaneously. And i i can't remember now. it It does get very muddled. i would say if the confessions could have stayed in the prosecutor could have theoretically said they all admitted that they were about to go car hopping and these three kids died when that was happening. And then you've got felony murder, right?
01:26:07
Speaker
Right, right. Perhaps that would have been a conviction. I don't know that the confessions would have been. ah i can see a defense attorney trying really hard to get. ah Robert Robinson's confession and interrogation not admitted because he clearly thinks that he he he says if I'm not going to get a deal why am I snitching like so he's and see that's reading pretty deep into Miranda right that's that's really kind of upholding the spirit of the fact that like
01:26:42
Speaker
he's thinking certain things that ultimately really it's it's what Miranda represents. Right. Right. But he's not taken the steps necessarily to protect his own rights. And case law shows like they did what they're supposed to do on that side of it. And this is a case where the other side could be explored. Right.
01:27:08
Speaker
So, so do you think,
01:27:16
Speaker
of my head for a second. Okay. um Do you think... Ah, fuck it. Never mind. I lost it. Sorry. No problem. I had a thought about something you just said, I didn't hold it long enough.
01:27:31
Speaker
um
01:27:37
Speaker
I was talking about the confession holding or not holding, and I said ah that... ah felony murder. Oh, yeah. Do you think the amount of information that we have available to us changing because any of these confessions cuts off at one of the Miranda points here?
01:27:56
Speaker
Do you think that actually changes the overall nature of of how this turns out in court? It probably should. i don't know that it would.
01:28:09
Speaker
I feel like ah in this situation, so again, this is very unexplored. However, in this situation, a mother with their teenage son would not waive their the Miranda rights.
01:28:30
Speaker
Right. They wouldn't, right? Police want them to because they need this information, Right. Right. Okay. And so that would be too broad to argue if we're trying to get like yeah a true waiver of Miranda. Like, so you followed that side of the law. You read the boilerplate Miranda rights.
01:28:56
Speaker
However, it is... It's inconceivable that a mother with her teenage son who's about to confess would waive their Miranda rights. Okay. That's inconceivable. You would want an attorney, even if you were going to confess.
01:29:13
Speaker
For the mere fact that like you want the deal to be in place and be ironclad. It has to be. And see, and, and that's what at least Robert Robinson was thinking.
01:29:24
Speaker
And so to me, like, that's not a meeting of the minds as far as what it takes to like actually say, okay, I'm waiving these rights. And so, you know,
01:29:36
Speaker
I realize you can't necessarily say, I mean, maybe kids should just always have an attorney present. I mean, they say that, they say that, you know, a lot of states require parents to be present with minors.
01:29:53
Speaker
So maybe they should all just be represented.
01:30:09
Speaker
Are you there?
01:30:39
Speaker
can't hear me when do that, huh? No, I can't hear you. Sorry. Okay, so my last question then.
01:30:46
Speaker
um Do you think, so we've been talking about that people understand the idea of like Miranda rights in this situation, kind of all around, like in the audience themselves, right? Do they realize what they're waving?
01:31:02
Speaker
Right. That's where we've, we've been and like has it become so commonplace that like people just don't know it anymore?
01:31:12
Speaker
Like they think they know, but like really they have no idea what's happening. ah I think of it this case in particular, Robert Robinson, I think that demonstrates that.
01:31:24
Speaker
So what do you think of the sensationalization of a case like this?
01:31:30
Speaker
Well, so if I wasn't going to, like, think of that, like, technicality, like, that legal technicality, okay? Which, I mean, it's a big one. Don't get me wrong.
01:31:41
Speaker
I think that this case is, like, cut and dry. Because, like, they literally all pled to it. It was a tragedy. ah it should not be sensationalized at all.
01:31:56
Speaker
I'm not saying that it can't be covered. Right.
True Crime Qualifications & Sensationalism
01:31:59
Speaker
But, like, this is not – I mean, it is true crime because everybody's made it true crime. But, I mean, it's really not, right?
01:32:09
Speaker
Like, unless you want to – again, the legal technicality, which I doubt very seriously anybody has brought up. Right. I'm just saying. Have you seen it anywhere? No, that's why I'm talking about it.
01:32:23
Speaker
Well, know. But so, you know, sensationalizing it, well – what What is there to sensationalize? Well, that's what I was wondering because my next question is, do you think people realize that this is like...
01:32:39
Speaker
i have one last question after this, but I'm going to say it this way. Do you think people realize... Take away the three people this happens to. It is super common for missing people to be because three of their friends looked at them and were like, that person's going to snitch.
01:32:59
Speaker
And like, that's a common element among criminals.
01:33:06
Speaker
Uh,
Parental Influence & Social Media Revelations
01:33:07
Speaker
I don't know about that. I do. This is one of the most common ways to die, committing crimes with other people who for some reason decide that the next crime is you.
01:33:22
Speaker
Uh, like, Not usually this young, not usually three people at one time. Well, I would say that if there's an element of like money and revenge to it, right?
01:33:34
Speaker
Well, sometimes there's an element of accident. They just go to threaten you with the gun and that gun finally goes off because nobody knows how to use the gun that we're all holding. Well, I believe that, but I wouldn't say that like, I don't know that I could characterize it as a common way to die.
01:33:52
Speaker
Uh, Like out of murders, I guess, maybe shooting deaths or frequently because your friend shot you.
01:34:02
Speaker
Right. But even like murders are a small percentage of common ways to die. i'm just talking. No, I'm just saying, like, do you understand that? Like, if you're going to die in a murder, like this is the way that's most likely.
01:34:16
Speaker
ah That your friend shot you over nonsense. Yeah. Oh, I can agree. This is the least sensationalizable crime on the planet. Yes, okay. Okay, yes. that's what ah Especially, yes. I agree that most of the time when... I don't think normally three people are perps and three people are victims all at the same time. Right. But, ah yeah, I can... Just about every single shooting death is because people do stupid shit. Yeah.
01:34:47
Speaker
So, in this case... And this is not victim blaming, but I have a victim question.
01:34:56
Speaker
What do parents do different to explain to like the victims in this case that they should not hang out with the defendants in this case?
01:35:12
Speaker
ah That's a very, very deep question. ah Because they don't release any of what the other kids are doing publicly, but it's all on social media if you want to go down a rabbit hole.
01:35:24
Speaker
Right.
Teen Trust & Risk Perception
01:35:25
Speaker
And I don't necessarily suggest that. um Because no matter what, ah it it doesn't matter. It's not the victim's fault here. However...
01:35:37
Speaker
I don't think, I could be wrong, but I don't think it ever occurred to any of them that this could happen.
01:35:50
Speaker
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know what you tell someone, ah except,
01:35:59
Speaker
you know, if somebody's got a ride in the trunk, you've got too many people in your car. yeah If you're, picking up people and you're all going to go car hopping, you need to turn the car around and go back home and drop everybody back off. Yeah. ah And so there's some principles here that kind of...
01:36:21
Speaker
you know And they're like tales as old as time as far as like, you know, there's no honor among thieves. I believe the sheriff was quoted as saying that. there's There's all kinds of things here. i don't know that you could ever convince a teenager that somebody that they would drive to their home and pick them up...
01:36:43
Speaker
and they And allow them to sit in the back seat while they burn their gas, going wherever they're going, giving them a ride, regardless of where they're going or what they're doing, would then shoot them.
01:36:54
Speaker
I don't know that, ah like, teenagers really shouldn't have to grasp that, except in this case it happened, so they kind of do, Right. Right. And so what do you do? I don't know that there is anything that you can do. Because I could say, well, tell your kid not to hang out with people like that. Except I don't know for sure that they outwardly show that. That every single kid that has a gun that could possibly shoot somebody shows that, right?
01:37:25
Speaker
Right. But kids definitely don't need to have guns, which I'm not blaming the guns because they are robbing to get these guns. But I know that If the mama, ah if Robert Robinson's mama had yelled at him the way she did in the interrogation room about him having a firearm, if she had known, I feel like that would have gone a ah lot further as far as this situation not happening. Yeah. Yeah.
01:37:54
Speaker
Because ultimately, i don't think the parents knew about the guns. And I don't think the teenagers were like, oh, yeah, they might kill me, but I'm going to go pick them up anyway. I just don't think that that's what happened. I think that there were poor decision decisions made. And i think that the victims were seeing the best in people, which, I mean, i don't want to say don't do that. But like,
01:38:20
Speaker
You never really know if somebody's capable, right? Yeah, right. I just can't. I mean, I think if you're with a group of people that you know have committed a carjacking.
01:38:31
Speaker
because they all seem to be aware of that one thing. Everybody,
Media Sensationalism & Ethical Considerations
01:38:35
Speaker
um even the way Chris Atkins talks about Taj is a little weird. um But they, like, regardless of, like, whether or not he could identify him later, he seems to know kind of front that Taj is dangerous.
01:38:54
Speaker
Right, and and it's very clear to me that ah Chris is not afraid of Robert Robinson, and he is very afraid of Taj Bruton. imagine that might be shared by the other people riding in the front seat in the trunk of his car.
01:39:10
Speaker
Right, but the driver still went and got him. Oh, yeah. They still picked him up. And so... Perhaps they didn't realize he was dangerous. You know, cases like this can make a lot of people think about a lot of things, right? Yeah.
01:39:27
Speaker
I mean, it's... I would have never been going to go car hopping, but if a friend of mine had wanted to pick up a friend of theirs and we were going to a mutual place, I wouldn't have thought a whole lot about it.
01:39:41
Speaker
Now, I'm not saying that's what happened here, but, and, and again, we don't get a great sense of how well they knew each other because everybody's downplaying everything, right? Correct. Correct. And so I think they had to be all pretty good acquaintances, right? Yeah.
01:39:58
Speaker
but Just given the situation. Because you don't really go out and commit crimes with strangers, do you? Because, like, they're going to – you can't trust them. Of course, turns out you couldn't they couldn't be trusted anyway. right But, like, I'm just saying to to make a plan to go car hop, they were they knew each other.
01:40:22
Speaker
Well,
Legal Aspects & Miranda Rights Emphasis
01:40:23
Speaker
i um i found this whole thing disturbing. I'm shocked how sensationalized it's become and how many different content creators have covered it. You and I have looked at a couple of them just from the perspective of like what's going on with these you know full interrogations here. So I do encourage people to like look at that part of it. I'm a little torn on like how some of this is presented, but at the same time, I guess you can't have one without the other maybe.
01:40:52
Speaker
it' It's possible. i will be completely honest. I have not, I don't see anything beyond just the story, covering the story. This is not a case that requires deep investigation.
01:41:07
Speaker
yeah ah Unless you're going to bring up the legal technicalities like like I've brought out. This is a straightforward case of of teenage stupidity. Yeah.
01:41:19
Speaker
And I don't know, i can't imagine what on earth people are milking it for because it it i would say this is a tragedy more than anything else. I'm really interested to see if somebody does something with any of these three defendants appellate-wise.
01:41:38
Speaker
i kind of doubt it. Yeah, I don't know how much you would want to... Stir it up.
01:41:48
Speaker
Yeah. Well, or just get involved. Like why? Like that's the, I mean like just from the perspective of how heinous a crime this was, i don't know if anybody wants to get involved with that.
01:41:59
Speaker
I understand that. And I guess my only reasoning would be it is because it applies to everyone equally. Like the fact that like, like nobody that's sitting there giving their story saying, I want an attorney.
01:42:15
Speaker
They shouldn't be given a piece of paper and a pen that says they waive their rights because they're clearly not waiving them. They don't understand. they're not getting They're not picking up what you're putting down. And maybe maybe the police or whoever it is, taught the law enforcement that's speaking with them, maybe...
01:42:35
Speaker
Maybe they didn't get that either, right? But you can't have somebody saying, well, I really want an attorney, I really want to make a deal, and then saying, I'm waiving my rights, I'm going to talk to you anyway. and Because that would be, that is not a meeting of the minds.
01:42:53
Speaker
Agreed.
01:42:57
Speaker
So without a meeting of the minds, they shouldn't be having the rest of the conversation, right? I mean, that's what I think. That's why you have that's why you have representation.
01:43:08
Speaker
Like, that's why you need an attorney to begin with. Because an attorney is going to be the one that says, hey, like, you don't need to tell them anything until we get something worked out, right? And I'm not saying I want criminals to get away with stuff. I'm just saying that all of the rights apply to everybody exactly the same. Whether you're a 17-year-old pseudo-hybrid gangster or Or you're a serial killer.
01:43:36
Speaker
are
Trial Risks & Plea Deal Considerations
01:43:37
Speaker
whatever. Or an innocent person. the the The evidence... Now, it is easier when they plead, right? Don't get wrong. also easier when they confess. Well, well yeah.
01:43:51
Speaker
And... i I couldn't – I wouldn't have been able to take these these confessions to any sort of trial. Like, you would have had to have had a lot of physical evidence, and I think that that could have been lost on the jury, honestly. I don't know what would have happened ultimately, but I don't think – I feel like somebody that was wanting to take up this cause and want wanting to establish some sort of case law – with regard to whether or not Robert Robinson really waived his Miranda rights, they could do something here with it, right? Right. ah
01:44:28
Speaker
I'm not going to do it. i I don't know that anybody's going to do it. But this case, the whole reason I kind of, you know, had a light bulb go off was because I wondered about it.
01:44:39
Speaker
You know, is this... Is this an example of what truly waiving those rights are? Or is this an example of exactly what ah you see when the rights aren't waived, but they are on paper?
01:44:58
Speaker
Yeah. This is a disaster is what this is. And and it like's narrow it's narrowly averted by a plea deal. um I mean, can you imagine? like Yeah, this would be a crazy trial.
01:45:11
Speaker
that All kinds of things could go the wrong way at trial here. And, you know, it's it's very depressing to even talk about this particular case, just from the perspective tragedy.
01:45:23
Speaker
Right. And on this, to me, like, as we've spoken about, do people really understand the concept behind waiving their fifth and sixth amendment rights as Miranda explains it, this is a no for me. I'm gonna go with these guys have no idea what they're doing in life, but they's certainly they they're not gonna pass the bar exam. Not
Podcast Credits & Listener Engagement
01:45:45
Speaker
even close.
01:45:49
Speaker
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01:46:00
Speaker
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01:46:14
Speaker
I break things like guitars.
01:46:23
Speaker
No scars. We're in trouble. We took it too far.
01:46:33
Speaker
don't want to go, but it's cause I'll disappoint ya. It's all I've ever dreamed of, something I cannot let go of.
01:46:44
Speaker
I hate the competition. This culture's like a Jimin. I lost the motivation to get fit in your expectations.
01:46:55
Speaker
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01:47:13
Speaker
Thank you for joining us.