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Episode 2: How Uber is Working to Stop Human Trafficking (Part 1/2)
142 Plays2 years ago
Welcome to Part 1 of 2 special episodes with our guest, Uber.
Join our host Erin Collins as she interviews Danielle McDonald, Kate Birks, and Elise Maiolino from Uber’s Safety Team. Hear some of the innovative strategies put in place by Uber to recognize and stop human trafficking.
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Transcript
Introduction and Focus on Uber's Initiatives
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome back to the Florida Alliance to End Team and Trafficking podcast. I'm Erin Collins, the executive director of the Florida Alliance to End Team and Trafficking. Today, my co-host is Alan Wilkett, retired corporal with the Pasco County Sheriff's Office and member of the Florida Alliance to End Team and Trafficking. Alan, thanks for joining me today.
00:00:23
Speaker
It's a pleasure to be here today and to join with you as we talk about this very important topic, ending human trafficking.
Uber's Safety Measures and Collaborative Efforts
00:00:31
Speaker
So in this episode, I recently had a conversation with three public safety employees of Uber and learned what they're doing proactively to train their drivers and ensure the safety of its riders. Alan, in your law enforcement career, can you talk about how important it is that private and public businesses are engaged in collaborating with law enforcement?
00:00:51
Speaker
Well, first of all, you're in for a real treat with this particular podcast because you're going to get a glimpse of these that are being interviewed. You're going to get a glimpse of the importance of having that law enforcement partnership with public and private enterprises. The public is going to get a chance to glimpse that. You're going to get a chance to see the cohabitation and the importance of that partnership. Why? Well, oftentimes we're seen as two different things. You got business on one side, law enforcement on the other side.
00:01:21
Speaker
Well, what oftentimes is missed in that particular perception is that law enforcement takes statute and law and applies it to a criminal activity and we have to be able to do that in a way that brings justice to the victim.
00:01:37
Speaker
brings a perpetrator to justice and ends the criminal activity. Business, public and private enterprises are so critically important to accomplishing that mission. That mission cannot be, and I can't stress that enough, that mission cannot be accomplished by law enforcement alone.
Meet Uber's Safety Leaders
00:01:56
Speaker
And so what you'll hear today is you'll hear those who have a law enforcement background, who's now part of a public or private business background, who's applying that knowledge of what's needed in order to bring justice to the victim and bring accountability to the perpetrator and to end the activity. And that's being done today on this podcast. So it's a wonderful opportunity to see that partnership take place and you're going to be able to see it in this particular episode.
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, and I think you're so right to your point about educating from a kind of a global perspective, I say global as it takes all of us. And that is one of the reasons why the Florida Alliance was created, to increase awareness about human trafficking and exploitation statewide across all industries.
00:02:45
Speaker
This is part one of a two-part episode series with public safety employees of Uber. We're going to learn more about their background. Two of them have quite an extensive career in law enforcement. Ubers work as a whole to educate drivers and their riders and their involvement in proactively training the community in Florida before large-scale events.
00:03:09
Speaker
Joining us today for a two-part series are safety leaders from Uber, Danielle McDonald, Public Safety Liaison Manager for the United States Southeast, Kate Burks, Lead Technical Investigator on the Global Investigations Team, and Elise Maiolino, the Global Head of Women's Safety Policy.
00:03:29
Speaker
Ladies, thank you for joining us today. Hi, Erin. Thank you so much for having us on. It's a pleasure. Excited to be here. Thank you. Danielle, again, thank you so much for joining us today. You have quite an extensive background and career before coming to Uber. Can you share more about your previous experience with us? Sure. Hi, Erin. Thank you so much for having me. I'd be happy to share a little bit about my background. Before joining Uber as the public safety liaison manager for the U.S. Southeast,
00:03:58
Speaker
I do come from a background in law enforcement. I started my work in the law enforcement community over 17 years ago. Originally started off as a law enforcement officer, where I did work patrol. I also had the opportunity to work as a domestic violence detective. I then also worked as an intelligence and crime analyst with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
00:04:25
Speaker
where part of that was also working in the behavioral analysis units on counterterrorism and our violent crime apprehension program or the FBI's violent crime apprehension program. And also worked with a National Fusion Center in the Northern Virginia area where I supported investigations on domestic terrorism and regional gangs.
00:04:52
Speaker
So that was my background before coming over into Uber. And then as part of Uber, I work in our global public safety team, where we do a lot of the education and outreach directly with law enforcement agencies that are within our assigned regions, where we educate law enforcement on how they can obtain information to support their investigations. And we'll also partner with them on safety initiatives as well to support them.
Role and Background of Safety Leaders
00:05:21
Speaker
Thank you, Danielle. Elise, can you share a little bit about your background and how you came to Uber? Absolutely. So at Uber, I lead our public policy work on global women's safety and personal safety policy. So part of that work involves engaging with experts and advocates
00:05:39
Speaker
to help ensure that our approach to safety is guided by their input, that it's trauma informed, and that it's survivor centered. So we're really grateful to have a number of partners that inform the development of our products, our policies, and the prevention and response work that we do.
00:05:59
Speaker
And prior to joining Uber, I spent four years in the office of the prime minister of Canada. I was a senior gender and diversity advisor to prime minister, Justin Trudeau, and I had the privilege of working on a number of feminist policy issues like childcare and gender-based violence. And prior to that, I was teaching and researching at the University of Toronto, where I completed a PhD in sociology.
00:06:25
Speaker
So I've been in this work for some time and really enjoy it. Thank you, Elise. I just want to say I think it's so tremendous that Uber has this position that you're in. I learned about this, you know, before we started chatting today. And I think it's
00:06:41
Speaker
I think it's wonderful because having someone who, again, with your background and education focused on issues impacting women's safety, which is huge, is so important. And especially with regards to what we'll talk about today, human trafficking and exploitation, having it be trauma-informed and everything that you do through the resources and the education and the training, I think is fantastic. So thank you for sharing that.
00:07:10
Speaker
Kate, can you share more about your background and how you came to work at Uber? Yeah, thank you. Happy to be here today. So I started my career as a Probation and Parole Officer with Queensland Corrective Services in Australia, which is an interesting job to start as a 21-year-old female.
00:07:32
Speaker
I moved from there into criminal intelligence. So I was an analyst like Danielle was working across the Victoria Police. So one of our state police departments in Australia and then to the Australian federal police. I worked across a variety of crime types with focus on child exploitation, people smuggling and human trafficking. And then I finished at the Australian federal police in the joint counterterrorism team in Sydney.
00:08:00
Speaker
Then I came across to Uber and I was also on the public safety team with Danielle in a analyst role. So helping law enforcement with their requests for data, assisting with deep dives to make sure we were providing accurate responses. And then I've come across to Uber's global investigations team where I am one of the lead technical investigators conducting internal and external investigations into crime impacting the Uber platforms.
00:08:29
Speaker
If I may, a question for Danielle and for Kate because of your background in law enforcement. I'm sure there are a lot of people listening to this podcast, corporate folks, people that might be currently working for a law enforcement agency. Can you talk about the transition from the public to the private sector? The expertise you both bring to Uber is phenomenal.
00:08:54
Speaker
And I'm sure there are a lot of different corporations that would love to have former law enforcement military on their team because public safety, keeping our community safe is so vital. People don't want to move to any community or the state of Florida when they see articles about exploitation or incidents of human trafficking. And we really rely on folks in our community, citizens,
00:09:20
Speaker
to learn about the potential signs and indicators of human trafficking. As former individuals, law enforcement officers, and personnel, can you talk a little bit about how that transition was for you and the importance that citizens play in the work that you all do? Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:42
Speaker
The benefit of having that kind of experience and then being able to come over into a business or private sector is that we bring that matter of expertise. We were out there on the ground. We were working directly with the community. Our community are really the ones that are observing everything. They're familiar with their neighborhoods. They're familiar with
00:10:12
Speaker
you know, their local stores. And so being able to recognize the importance of hearing and listening to what they have to say of what's going on in the community, but then also recognizing, OK, well, you know, how can we take what the community is telling us and also work with law enforcement and what they're seeing and the feedback that they're bringing us
00:10:36
Speaker
and put that all together and be that point of contact and that advocate where we can support the investigations that do matter, right? The ones that are important to the community, where the community is saying, hey, this is what we're observing. We're really concerned for our safety. This is what's important to us.
Training and Community Engagement in Human Trafficking
00:10:54
Speaker
And then us being able to work with law enforcement who is the ones that have to do that investigation and make sure that they're able to take that
00:11:04
Speaker
all the way to fruition in terms of a prosecution. And so being able to be part of that inside of a company where we're supporting everybody that's involved. And then, you know, of course, supporting the witnesses and the victims and ensuring that we are helping and supporting law enforcement and understanding what their needs are to make sure that they can take a case and carry it to fruition
00:11:34
Speaker
to ensure justice and prosecution for the victims that are involved in those cases. It's very fulfilling, and it's something that I enjoy working and being part of. And obviously, as you can see here on our podcast today, I work with some really incredible, incredible people that are involved in all aspects of this. It's a collaborative effort.
00:12:00
Speaker
And I think further to that as well, I'm sure Danielle is the same. You get into law enforcement because you want to help. You want to make the community safer. You want to make a difference. And I think coming across to Uber and to a company like this is it's a company that wants to do the right thing. So we're still able to help. And we've just got it's different resources, different data sets.
00:12:26
Speaker
But we're still able to try and make that impact to make our community safer, which is a really great thing. Thank you both. I think it's extremely important as Uber is leading by example as a good corporate steward, investing in the resources, the people, the education for the drivers and the broader community.
00:12:50
Speaker
And again, here in the state of Florida, the investment of educational resources and training prior to large-scale events and year-round, as you all explained, is so important to hopefully rooting out this horrible crime, but really making people and the next generation aware that these things are going on. They don't have to. Here's what you can do to stop it, but really working with community partners, as you guys have so articulately explained today.
00:13:19
Speaker
As we know, human trafficking takes place, unfortunately, throughout communities in the state of Florida and globally. As we've discussed, there's a lot of different ways that Uber is proactive about training drivers, its riders, community partners, in advance of large-scale events and on an ongoing basis. But people don't know what to look for if they don't know there's a problem.
00:13:46
Speaker
Elise, when did you learn about human trafficking and exploitation? Yeah, thanks. Thanks for that, Erin. So I think for me, it really, it really came to my attention as an undergraduate student in a really awesome program that was centered on community development. And I had the opportunity to work at a sexual assault and rape crisis center, which was really a hub for
00:14:16
Speaker
knowledge around gender-based violence, around sexual assault, around feminist movements, even things like human trafficking. And I think that's really where my journey began. I was a volunteer on a hotline at the time, and it really kind of gave me insight into the complex societal problems that intersect
00:14:46
Speaker
a lot of times with gender, but various facets of identity. And so I think that's kind of where it all began for me and having the opportunity to work in government, in the government of Canada. I also had the chance to work on a federal strategy and national action plan on gender-based violence. And I think in that space as well, you just have the, you just see
00:15:11
Speaker
the ways in which organizations, government, the private sector can really intersect on important issues. And then of course coming to Uber and learning that safety is just embedded in everything that we do here. And the work that had already been done on human trafficking here was quite inspiring and I think
00:15:33
Speaker
learning more through our expert partners, through folks like Polaris, and building off the work that's been done here has been really important to me. So I think that's kind of a little bit about how I come to this work.
00:15:47
Speaker
Danielle, you mentioned your work as a former law enforcement officer, specifically related to domestic violence. As we know, there are sometimes correlations between domestic violence and human trafficking, but when did you identify human trafficking in your previous law enforcement experience and get educated on the topic?
00:16:13
Speaker
It's hard to pinpoint exactly when because I think when we're talking about human trafficking, the more you are exposed to either seeing it, right, or exposed to the investigations or exposed to we talked about practitioners in this space with the knowledge and even survivors and everybody who can
00:16:38
Speaker
offer their level of expertise and you start to understand and put the pieces together. So it's a gradual thing that it comes to be. So for me, I started off as a patrol officer and in the district area that I worked, there were portions of that area where there was prostitution. And so when we talk about prostitution, a lot of times practitioners will differentiate
00:17:08
Speaker
between human trafficking and prostitution, but as a patrol officer, you do see the overlap often, right? And so we can sit here and argue all day long of, okay, well, are we going to call it prostitution or are we going to call it human trafficking? But at the end of the day, you see these victims that are placed in these positions and they really don't have a choice.
00:17:29
Speaker
they don't have a way to get out. And as I started to get my experience as a patrol officer and then eventually in the domestic violence detective role, when you work and you're immersed in a particular community, you start to learn, okay, well, what are the differences? Well, I recognize this person because, you know, they are an act of prostitute. But here's some people that I don't recognize
00:17:58
Speaker
that are coming in every other weekend or during certain holidays and they're staying at the local hotels and they're only there for a couple of nights, but then you don't see them for several, several months. And that's when you start to get that experience through observation, from being out there on the road, from working with senior detectives.
00:18:20
Speaker
I was fortunate that I had a lot of senior detectives who, you know, they work from the heart. We talk about law enforcement, we talk about dedicating your life to helping people and helping the communities. And some of these detectives, you know, if you're familiar with Bill Wolf, who is very active in the anti-human trafficking space, is a former detective.
00:18:43
Speaker
They will pass along that guidance and training to the younger officers on, hey, this is what you need to look out for. Sometimes things aren't really what you're seeing. There's more to the story that's going on and teaching you about those signs and indicators. And so it was something that really stood out to me in my time as a law enforcement officer and as an analyst.
00:19:10
Speaker
And then also just being exposed and learning more about how it comes into play in almost every criminal activity that you can touch, whether it's fraud and finances, whether it's gangs, whatever it may be, there can often be an overlapping element and just becoming very engaged with my peers in that space and learning more and feeling
00:19:42
Speaker
Feeling really empowered to be able to partner with those people in that space and saying, you know what, the more we come together, the stronger we are as a group to share our knowledge and be able to combat this. And hearing survivor stories, obviously, working with the victims and the witnesses, especially when you're working with mothers,
00:20:07
Speaker
um, whose children are then getting wrapped into the same situation. Um, and, uh, you just, you immerse yourself in it and you become involved in it and you want to help because I think inherently everybody that's here today, um, we're here because we want to help whatever our background is and wherever that's coming from.
00:20:28
Speaker
So I think that's a long way, Erin, of me answering your question and that I don't think there is one particular time that I can pinpoint. I think it's been, you know, just over time learning and seeing and being involved and meeting, you know, the survivors and the
00:20:51
Speaker
counselors and the health care providers and just all different kinds of people that want to come together and work on this and sharing stories.
Partnerships and Resources in Combatting Human Trafficking
00:21:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think what you said, Danielle, was so important that sometimes things don't look what they seem on the outside. And as a law enforcement officer with certain type of training, you are able to kind of hone in or key in on
00:21:19
Speaker
certain characteristics or factors. And obviously that expertise in your public safety work with Uber is such a tremendous asset to continue to partner with law enforcement when these situations arise to stop them or prevent them from happening. Kate, to you, when did you learn about human trafficking in your previous role in law enforcement?
00:21:44
Speaker
Yep, so I can pinpoint the exact time. As with most government work, you're sort of dictated what teams you go on. So not long after I started with the Australian Federal Police, I was moved onto a victim-based crime team. And basically my role was to look at people smuggling and human trafficking. So that's when it really became sort of a passion for me. I was fortunate enough to be on a joint agency task force.
00:22:13
Speaker
We had sort of the power, the intelligence, the resourcing between multiple Australian government departments to really try and sort of disrupt and dismantle these syndicates that were operating internationally, trafficking people between multiple locations for various purposes. But it all comes down to the same thing. People were being exploited by criminal groups.
00:22:39
Speaker
Um, so when I came across to Uber and then onto global investigations, I sort of jumped at the chance to be able to work on human trafficking again, um, using the unique data that Uber collects to be able to sort of, you know, stop, to stop this in a, in a different manner and really get in there and look and see how we can help.
00:23:02
Speaker
And working for a company like Uber who constantly wants to do the right thing has enabled us to really make human trafficking and having that sort of zero trafficking policy a priority, which has been great.
00:23:20
Speaker
Wow, Uber is doing so much internally and externally with its drivers and riders to educate them on the potential signs and indicators of human trafficking. Alan, as we heard, they talked a lot about their collaborations with law enforcement as a tenured law enforcement officer for decades. Why do you think those collaborations with public and private businesses are so important?
00:23:45
Speaker
Well, and that's, again, what a fantastic podcast in which they talked about that. But I think one of the things we have to kind of put as a baseline is not only is it just important, it's critical. It's absolutely critical that those partnerships exist. One of the things that I thought was interesting is Uber is obviously a business.
00:24:07
Speaker
Their business is moving people for a profit. I mean, they move people from one place to another and they collect the money and they pay a driver. And that's their whole business model is moving people from one place to another for a profit. And yet Uber has, according to what we heard on the podcast, they've made an absolute important decision. And that is they're going to create within their infrastructure, within their business model, the ability to detect
00:24:35
Speaker
when that movement is criminal. So it's not just moving somebody from one place to another for a profit, it's actually looking at the person as a person and making sure that they're not exploited. So that training, that awareness, that education that they're bringing to their business model is an example of how it should be done. Because every business needs to look at it, that yes, while profit is part of the business side of it,
00:25:02
Speaker
people is what really matters when the day is all done. So they're they're doing an amazing job. So what a fantastic model of business cooperating with law enforcement and law enforcement, depending on business to make
Conclusion and Future Focus
00:25:16
Speaker
this thing happen. Yeah, no, I agree. It's it's incredible. And again,
00:25:19
Speaker
Uber being proactive about, you know, educating its personnel and its riders, I think is so important. And, you know, through the attorney general's 100 percent club and other statewide training initiatives, it does take the entire community.
00:25:36
Speaker
to get educated, to learn the facts, not the myths. As we know, unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation and myths out there about human trafficking and exploitation. So what I think Uber is doing is tremendous, and it was great to learn from these ladies about how Uber is being proactive.
00:25:54
Speaker
Thank you, Alan, for being here with me today. And thank you for listening to part one of this two-part series with Uber. In the next episode of this podcast, we'll learn specifically what Uber is doing to combat human trafficking in the state of Florida and across the country. This has been another podcast by the Florida Alliance to End Human Trafficking.