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How to End Christian Nationalism
10 Plays1 year ago
Interview with author Amanda Tyler
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Welcome to The Table' Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to The Table, where we come together to have meaningful conversations that shape our world.
Exploring Christian Nationalism with Amanda Tyler
00:00:07
Speaker
Today, we're diving into a topic that's impacting both the church and the nation, Christian nationalism. What happens when faith becomes intertwined with political power? And how can we as Christians respond to help us explore these questions?
00:00:25
Speaker
I'm joined by Amanda Tyler, executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty and lead organizer of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism Campaign. Amanda has been at the forefront of advocating for religious freedom and challenging the rise of Christian nationalism in America. She brings deep insights into how this movement is shaping our politics, our churches, and our communities and what we can do about it. Join us as we discuss the importance of separating faith from political power and protecting true religious liberty for all.
00:01:05
Speaker
is
00:01:18
Speaker
Well, welcome, Amanda. Thank you so much for joining me here at the table. One of the things that I've asked folks to do is to share a table that's important in their lives. It could be from your past, present, you know, something that could be faith-based.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, well, um I'm so pleased to be here and I love this opening question. um So when I think of a meaningful table, i I think something very current for me is the dining table at my in-laws house. um And so ah I now live in Dallas. I had been in ah Washington, D.C. for a decade, but my husband and I and our son moved back to Dallas last summer.
00:02:05
Speaker
in order to be close to family. And, um you know, unbeknownst to us, a difficult surprise for us when we look back is, unfortunately, law had a health crisis last January, and we were so grateful to be back.
00:02:24
Speaker
be with him and i'm I'm really pleased to say that he recovered from that and so now there are a number of family meals around their dining table and it is not lost on me how how really special that experience is and how fragile life and all of our relationships are. And so it's something that reminds me ah to be grateful for the things that we have and the relationships that we have and the people that we love. Definitely. you know And I think about all the conversations that happen around tables like that um because they enrich life so so much.
00:03:08
Speaker
um Well, that's sort of the spirit that I'm hoping to capture when I have conversations like we're the one we're about to have because we need more discourse that's hopefully more civil and familial in nature and not as divisive and I guess to say toxic because as we've seen so much of.
Defining Christian Nationalism
00:03:32
Speaker
well i wanted to begin by saying you have contributed something that I think is super important to the topic Christian nationalism, and that has been a definition that seems to have taken hold. I know you've repeated it probably hundreds of times, but would you do it once more? So people know what is Christian nationalism,
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think definitions are important. And for any conversation around any table, I think it's helpful that we have kind of a common understanding of what we're talking about. So the definition that I use and that we at the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign have used now consistently for more than five years is this one. ah Christian nationalism is a political ideology and a cultural framework that tries to merge American and Christian identities.
00:04:34
Speaker
but Put another way, Christian nationalism suggests that to be a real American, that one has to be a Christian. And not just any kind of Christian, but a Christian who holds certain fundamentalist religious beliefs that are in line with or consistent with certain conservative political priorities.
00:04:55
Speaker
And Christian nationalism relies heavily on this narrative ah mythological narrative of the United States as a quote unquote Christian nation, ah one that was founded by Christians in order to privilege Christianity and law and policy.
00:05:13
Speaker
And that narrative, that mythological history is inkin is inconsistent with and actually contradicted by an honest telling of the history and by the constitutional text of the US Constitution. um and And so I think something that I have come to understand and add to this definition with time is that while the definition I offer focuses on the political ideology and the cultural framework of Christian nationalism, we also have to think about Christian nationalism as a well-funded and highly organized political movement.
00:05:54
Speaker
um And it's the movement aspect of Christian nationalism, I think, that is often focused on in current conversations. And I think it's important to understand that. But that alone gives us an incomplete understanding of Christian nationalism. We have to grapple with this ideology and cultural framework that is very old, like centuries old. um And it's been a very persistent in American history. And so that's really what I um i think I often tend to focus on. we we We can talk about the movement as well, but I think the ideology is is kind of where um I think more attention and conversation needs to be paid to.
00:06:40
Speaker
I'm glad you mentioned the longevity of this, because um I think about even people like myself, I think I can include myself in this, who have studied Christianity as it intersects with, you know, religion, I'm sorry, with politics and culture. We've sort of known about this, but why do you think finally, even the media finally caught on to this conversation, and now it's people people are finally talking about it?
Media Influence Post-January 6
00:07:10
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think a couple of kind of points that I would point to over the last few years where I've really seen the media kind of ah take notice and start using the language of Christian nationalism. I guess before I get there, I'll note that ah there were ah you know some people in um the academy and scholarship that started to help define and give language to Christian nationalism, ah advocacy groups like the one I lead, sort of using the language of Christian nationalism to help understand what we were seeing as far as violence and threats to religious freedom. um And so that helped kind of build a vocabulary and a framework to understand what we were seeing. um But
00:07:58
Speaker
where I really saw the media start to take notice was first right after January 6, 2021, which of course was when there was the insurrection at the Capitol, an attempt to overthrow the lawful election results, um but also a very prominent expression of Christian nationalism, ah that there were the symbols of Christian nationalism, the language used, prayers said in the Senate chamber, um all of this kind of came together. And for the first time, a number of people asked what's going on here.
00:08:41
Speaker
why are these Christian symbols being used in this political cause and the language of Christian nationalism I think helps people understand that. So that's point one. Point two would have been around early summer, 2022. And that's when Marjorie Taylor Greene, this extreme political figure in the Republican Party, um said in an interview ah that she said, I'm a proud Christian nationalist, and I think that the Republican Party should be the party of Christian nationalism. She even started selling T-shirts that said proud Christian nationalists.
00:09:25
Speaker
I was going to get to that. I follow ah a number of pastors who are pastors of you know pretty large churches, mega churches, and they they have their part in perpetuating this ideology. And it seems like in response to this, because I feel like the conversation got ahead of them and it maybe weren't expecting it to catch on like it has. They've been embracing this idea. Oh yeah, i'm ah I'm a Christian nationalist. I vote my Christian values.
00:09:55
Speaker
But that's not at all what we're talking about here. I mean, where this is this is a different animal we're talking about. Am I am i right to say that?
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I think some of what um Marjorie Taylor Greene was doing, um and maybe some of these pastors and other leaders are doing, is trying to take the teeth out of Christian nationalism. I think i think what they saw was, once we have language to describe what was happening with this merger of American and Christian identities and the violent aspects of it, that they solve what we know to be true is that that's deeply unpopular, that a majority of Americans reject or or at least resisting Christian nationalism, um that there are still a high number who are accommodating it, but a small number who are actively embracing it.
00:10:53
Speaker
And so it's ah it's kind of that, well, if you can't beat them, join them kind of mentality. And they're like, well, I'll just claim this label and then redefine what it means. And so they would say, oh, well, I'm a Christian nationalist. I love Jesus and I love my country or something like that.
00:11:12
Speaker
And it's like that's not what Christian nationalism is, but that's also not what people like Marjorie Taylor Greene are saying. They are doing one step further. They're saying, again, to be an American, you have to be a Christian, or at least to be a full American, you have to be a Christian, and that it's the government's job to pass Christian laws, to enforce Christianity through the power of the government. um And everyone else would just have second-class citizenship status. that's what they're after, and they know that that's unpopular, and so they try to redefine what they're talking about, um but it's not that's not what's reflected in what they're actually pushing for when it comes to policies and other rhetoric that they're using.
Policy Changes and Education Concerns
00:12:01
Speaker
I've tried to communicate to some folks, you know for example, Project 2025, which
00:12:08
Speaker
when you read through the document, it's very rooted in this Christian nationalist ideology. And people will say, oh, it's not happening, but um you know we both live here in North Texas, and I think we've seen it already put in place. And I wonder if maybe you could just give some examples so people know what it looks like. What what does this policy policy look like in action?
00:12:33
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, Project 2025 is this huge document, you know, close to 1000 pages long, um and put together by principally the Heritage Foundation, but a number of other ah conservative um think tank and policymakers in Washington.
00:12:55
Speaker
um And, you know, why would all those people spend a lot of effort putting something together if they weren't hoping for that to become, you know, policy? You know, it really defies logic to say that this is is something that, you know, it's just some ideas put out there. No, this is a blueprint for what a second Trump administration would be.
00:13:21
Speaker
And when you when you look at the document itself, I will admit I have not read all thousand pages, but I have done um some I have looked through and in certain policies um that are put forward. And what they do is they take this fundamentalist reading of the Bible,
00:13:40
Speaker
these fundamentalist ideas about what a family looks like, about what human sexuality is, about education, um and they try to impose those policies on everyone else. um And I want to take education for for one example. I mean, the the blueprint ah suggests that the Department of Education be abolished, um it in which case education would be completely ruled by the states. Now, as it is now, most education policies are set by state government, but there are certain parameters and protections that the federal government provides and as well as funding to be sure um and some it to to have some extra funding for schools, for instance, to be sure that disadvantaged
00:14:32
Speaker
um ah kids and families are are served equally. um and And some requirements that school districts have to meet in order to be sure that all families are served equally. Well, if education policy were totally turned over to the states um and take our home state of Texas, for instance, um then we which in which public schools, I don't have to tell you, Kyle, you are dramatically underfunded, under-resourced,
00:15:02
Speaker
um where even the little funding that is given to public schools now is trying to be siphoned off into private education. um And then for the for the kids who are remaining in public schools, that education is trying to be Christianized. um We have this this issue this active issue going on um as we have our conversation today.
00:15:24
Speaker
um with the State Board of Education that is considering a curriculum, a reading and language arts curriculum for kids kindergarten through fifth grade that is infused with Bible stories um that amounts to the teaching of Christianity as fact, um teaching faith claims as fact to kids in public schools.
00:15:49
Speaker
um And it's deeply concerning. And so I think what would happen in a Project 2025 world um is this is that we'd see less and less um federal control over certain aspects um return to this turn to the states and that states like Texas, like Florida, like Oklahoma, which are seeing these theocratic and authoritarian impulses um that we would see more and more um merger of church and state in ways that really violate everyone's religious freedom.
Impact on Healthcare and Reproductive Rights
00:16:26
Speaker
We don't have to have a sitting president for this to happen, you know, like Trump or or someone like minded, because we have seen it at the local level. You know, I live in an area where some local districts have they've been quite effective at embracing this
00:16:48
Speaker
Christian nationalist ideology, and it's definitely in the air. And imagine what would happen then without any kind of federal oversight or federal you know ah guidance coming down about ah what um can and can't be done in public schools um it in it in a state like Texas. um So yeah, I think it's important. yeah we We already have serious problems without it. I think Project 2025 would just amplify those problems.
00:17:20
Speaker
um in in many different aspects, not just education. how was this Have you seen this play out in any other arenas um as profoundly as, say, education right now? Are there other ah areas that you've seen?
00:17:38
Speaker
Well, I think in health care in particular, and when we see attacks on the transgender children in particular and on their families who are trying to get health care for their children um and barriers that are are thrown up um in their way, um I think that's another place where, and and women's health, of course, um with ah abortion bans, criminalizing abortion, even in some places, ah limiting the use of IVF treatments ah in ways that really interfere with ah reproductive freedom and reproductive health. um So like all of these are examples where there is one
00:18:27
Speaker
version or one interpretation of the Bible um and on one interpretation of ah human sexuality and and and what that means and what ah is allowed or not allowed by scripture. Again, not an interpretation that shared by all people, all religious people, or even all Christians in trying to impose that on everyone else, which amounts to a coercive religious law ah that is unconstitutional, right? that um So we have legal protections in place to prevent this, um but we're just seeing these
00:19:07
Speaker
really um extreme measures being pushed in on the state and local level, um and could again be pushed on the federal level if um project 2025 comes into being.
00:19:21
Speaker
um and And not really knowing how courts will react ah given the current makeup of the US Supreme Court and ah and and judges um throughout Article 3, you know, and ah all kinds of federal judges who ah have ruled and made some really extreme rulings in some of these cases. Yeah, it feels like, at least locally, there might be some test cases, if you will, being floated out there to see what will happen in the courts. And that's disconcerting to me, though, when I think about it, that given the makeup of the court, I know one local school district here is is really testing the waters, I think, in hopes of getting some ruling in their favor ah so that they don't have to follow any guidance, yeah say, from the Department of Education.
Citizen Participation and Community Organizing
00:20:12
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I'm glad that the conversation is happening. And I'm glad you've been a really instrumental part in making that happen. And I'll say, you know, as an attorney and and as a, you know, an expert on the First Amendment and the religion clauses in particular, you know, I take these constitutional arguments very seriously. um and And at the same time,
00:20:36
Speaker
I think that if we reduce it to, well, is it constitutional or not? That sometimes misses the point because something, given some of the recent court cases, it may be constitutional because of the rulings that have been made by the court.
00:20:55
Speaker
That doesn't mean it's a good idea or that it protects everyone's religious freedom. And so ah while well we don't cede the constitutional arguments or don't continue to to push back on the court cases, I think it's important um that everyday citizens take part and voice their concerns to the people who are making policy, whether it be at a school board level,
00:21:23
Speaker
you know, city council level, state legislature, of course, members of Congress, um that being actively involved in that part of the democratic process ah is really crucial um and and not just kind of relying on what we think are pretty obvious constitutional arguments here. um Because you are right, those who are pushing for this theocratic authoritarian system are are trying to do so in large part through the courts because they don't have the support of the people for what they're doing. um And so they're trying to make a constitutional argument um or in a state like Texas, go through a gerrymandered legislative you know body. um
00:22:14
Speaker
But that the but majorities of Texans, just like majorities of Americans, do not support these policies. I know that we could spend a lot of time talking about the what-ifs and examples, um but I did want to get to talking about how to stop it. And I wonder like, you know, what do the rest of us do? I mean, even as a pastor, I i think I know, but I don't pastor a church full time anymore. I am a part of a clergy group. We sit around sometimes and we'll talk about what do we do? We feel so overwhelmed by, you know, the strident voices out there like Marjorie ah Taylor Greene.
00:22:57
Speaker
who have a ah bully pulpit. And you know how do we how does a progressive mainline body, I guess, combat that? It feels insurmountable sometimes. Yeah, I hear that. And and that was really one of the main impetuses I had in writing ah my new book that's coming out this fall um called, How to End Christian Nationalism.
00:23:26
Speaker
um And, you know, I would love for your listeners to but to go out and buy the book and read it and communicate with other people. um But i sort broad broadleaf brooks right yes broad leaf book yeah it's coming out October 22nd.
00:23:44
Speaker
But you know I'll i'll kind of i' kind of give you like the ah so the bottom line of the book. um that's the only way to and like I say in my conclusion, if you've gotten this far, you understand that you're not going to end Christian nationalism by reading a book, even this one.
00:24:05
Speaker
right? um But rather we are only going to end Christian nationalism if we work together in community and organize with each other and advocate for our neighbors in need. um And and the pete the way that I wrote the book is really each chapter is a step um and it's meant to provide some handholds for people who are concerned about what's happening and who just need some ideas on what to do next because the problem is huge. Like I'm very clear eyed about centuries old problem deeply seated in American cultural identity and just it in just the way that we think about things. It is going to take
00:24:53
Speaker
many generations to dismantle Christian nationalism. But just because it's a huge problem doesn't kind of abdicate our current responsibility to do what we can about it, right? And I am convinced that this moment, this generation, this this opportunity that we have to make a difference, we cannot let pass. And so I really encourage in the book um people to you know first understand Christian nationalism more deeply. um
00:25:28
Speaker
but kind of have some self interrogation about how we have absorbed some of the messages of Christian nationalism, even unwittingly, um and then have conversations have conversations within faith communities, within friend groups within families.
00:25:45
Speaker
um maybe first with people who are kind of around the same point in their journey, but then venturing out to people who may be accommodating Christian nationalism, um who before we move on to those who have actively embraced it, but actually just trying to kind of gather that people power, that sense that really, and and that's the word of encouragement,
00:26:08
Speaker
There are more people who are resisting it and rejecting it than who are accommodating and embracing it. That we really do have a majority of of people already with us, um but it's about getting them more actively engaged in the democratic process. um And when I talk about the democratic process, I mean just being active in our democracy. um I've really been reflecting on this recently, Kyle, that i I am concerned about the authoritarian tendencies that we're seeing in the United States. um And the only way that an authoritarian regime can take over is if the people act as if they're an authoritarian regime.
00:26:53
Speaker
Right. And so it's really up to us not to be fatalistic about what's going on. It can be hard. Right. Given what's going on around us, it can be hard to be, you know, just kind of ah depressed to see what's happening. But but if we get actively engaged and involved, That's how we keep democracy. um But we can't, this is not a moment to be complacent. um And so really encouraging people to to to dig dig deep and and into their communities, to create new communities where they might have
00:27:27
Speaker
you know, kind of ah withered away with um the isolation of that we had already, but then that COVID really exacerbated um with social media that has um really acted as ah as a divider, I think, with a lot of communities, but that just kind of good old-fashioned in-person contact, whether it be through a congregation or other community group, um that that really is the lifeblood of democracy and a way to make progress on these issues. This is important to non-Christians as much as it is to Christians, you know, because but whether you're Christian or not, this is going to affect you.
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, I will say that the audience, the primary audience for my book, because when you when you write, you're kind of writing to a primary audience. i Anyone can read the book and I hope anyone could get a lot out of it. But my primary audience is for Christians um and more specifically for white Christians.
00:28:33
Speaker
um who are really because and the this is the reason for it um i think and i talk about in the book about the difference between responsibility and impact um basically that the impact of christian nationalism is felt most acutely by people who are not christian people who are not white and sometimes people who are both, right? um and and and And there are more. yeah I do talk about, um you know, even white Christians who are LGBTQ plus, right? That that's another, you know, so that so you know i'm I'm a little simplistic in this, but that but when I really think about those who are most impacted, those groups. And then in the converse, I think white Christians bear the greatest responsibility to do something about it.
00:29:24
Speaker
And that's because of the privilege and majority status that we hold in most communities in this country. um And the fact that we have, whether we've wanted to or not, benefited from white Christian nationalism in some way. um And so it is really up to us, um again, every working in community, but we do bear great responsibility in doing the work.
00:29:48
Speaker
um And then in the in the book though, I talk about when we're really doing community organizing well, we're doing it in multi-faith, multi-racial, multi-ethnic coalitions. um That this is work that brings everybody together um across all those lines of difference. um The difference that we celebrate in this country or should celebrate in this country, but that um to really make progress, we need to work in those kinds of coalitions.
00:30:17
Speaker
um And so, yes, I would i would love it um if the book were studied and in one of those kind of multi-faith coalitions, as as well as in a Sunday school class at a church. you know i think that and And for that, you know the book also has, of course, um you know As a Baptist, I can't leave the Bible out of it, so I've got a lot of scripture um to for people to reflect on and think about how the scriptures um inform their understanding of Christian nationalism and their understanding of what's required of us to do something about it. Well, there's nothing wrong with being biblical. I mean, come on, right? um But I do think that's important because so much of scripture
00:31:00
Speaker
is interpreted by one voice. And like you've previously mentioned, there's more than one perspective here. And it's really hard to, I think maybe even for clergy, I know the the church that I attend, the pastor and I are good friends. And it's one of those, what you'd call a purple congregation. you know The parishioners are probably evenly divided, I would imagine. I i worship virtually, but um
00:31:34
Speaker
I do know that when he preaches his sermons, I can hear you know the challenges against Christian nationalism. I don't know that everyone picks up on it, but he is doing it and he's taking a risk honestly because you know you have some some folks in that congregation that support some of these political candidates who perpetuate and are, I guess, attached to this ideology. um I don't know if if you've even countered that encountered that or have talked to pastors going sort of through the same you know dilemma or not, but I'd be curious to
Clergy and Community Engagement
00:32:18
Speaker
know. yeah
00:32:19
Speaker
well Well, in the book, i i but part of the book process was interviewing a number of people or having conversations with a number of different people. And one of them um was a pastor in a Baptist church in South Carolina that is very much one of these purple congregations that you describe. And and I talked to him about how he has approached these issues in his congregation.
00:32:43
Speaker
And, you know, he talked about the fact that it's possible when you build relationships with people in the congregation um and that it's not just one sermon. It's not just one conversation, um but it's, ah you know, it's ah it's a whole relationship of discipleship and of Christian community.
00:33:04
Speaker
um that makes these kinds of changes possible. um that you know Christians at our best are always seeking to move closer and closer to jesus Jesus's example, to follow Jesus. It's an impossible example to ah match, but something that we are constantly trying to do. and so hey you know He talked about just some of the techniques of of having these difficult conversations in churches. um But part of what I think is really crucial is that pastors are willing um to have these conversations, to preach on it, to have Sunday schools or ah Sunday school theories or separate conversations or bringing guest speakers um ah to really approach these ah issues thoughtfully
00:33:57
Speaker
um in ways that are faithful to their tradition and to the way that that ah congregation is organized, um but not to shy away from the issues as being too political. I think that has been one way that... and You know, i it's understandable, right, with all the divisions in society and not in wanting to keep the peace of just, well, we just won't talk about that here. You know, we'll just focus on the Bible, right? We're not going to talk politics here. um When, in fact, the Bible is an incredibly political document. Jesus was political. And so how do we help our communities and congregations read the Bible in ways that help inform how we engage with
00:34:42
Speaker
the issues um and the pains and the hurts of our time as Jesus did in his time. I know that you had staff sort of on the ground here in North Texas. That's right. We have a North Texas organizer for Christians Against Christian Nationalism. um what I'm curious what's been the response to ah with all the work that's being done?
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think um it has been positive, you know, just to put it in a word. The one thing about organizing is it's for the long haul. um And so I think what our groups are learning there you know as I said there is no quick fix and anything that is really going to make a difference here is going to be built over time with relationships and so we have found um I think a number of people who are
00:35:37
Speaker
eager to get more actively engaged. um And they've done so through attending coalition meetings, ah through engaging in coalition actions. A number of our coalition actually traveled to Austin ah recently to testify in person against the State Board of Education, ah or that it testify in person to the State Board of Education opposed to the curriculum that's been ah proposed and many others submitted their comments in writing. um And so I think that people are are really feeling um empowered by having an outlet for some of their concerns and to have a community that shares their concerns and wants and their commitment to doing something about it. um So I think we've seen incremental growth.
00:36:34
Speaker
um of our coalition. um And, you know, we're only a few months in at this point to the organizing work that we've been doing less than a year um to the organizing on the ground. And I think people understand, you know, we're here for the long haul. We're not here just because it's an election year. In fact, our work is not related to the election. um Our work is related to longer systemic change and change built through the power of relationships.
00:37:05
Speaker
As you know, I'm a full-time educator, and I was curious if you've had any conversations with folks in public education around this matter.
00:37:16
Speaker
um I know, you know because we you know i as a teacher, and I know the people I work with, we work very hard to maintain our separation of of church and state and our beliefs and political ideologies. I mean, I work with a couple of Trump supporters and I consider myself pretty good colleagues with them, but we just don't let it come between us and the instruction we're giving in the classroom. I'm probably saying that for the benefit of myself and others, so that gets heard. But I do wonder, are are you having any you know any any connections there with what you're doing? Yeah.
00:37:55
Speaker
i ah Yeah, and and we'd love to have even deeper connections with the educators, the administrators, the people who are really doing the incredible and important work of educating um our citizenry through public education. um And I think most of our advocacy so far has been focused on school boards and ah most recently on the State Board of Education.
00:38:22
Speaker
And I think come 2025, we'll turn our attention to Texas legislature. um And ah so really thinking about the policymakers and how we can have an impact on what's being decided there. are ah But with love, I mean, public education has been one of the three issues that our local coalition has really picked as something they want to focus on.
00:38:48
Speaker
um so I love this idea to get more involved with the teachers and what can we do that would be most supportive and helpful um and understanding how Christian nationalism is impacting people's lives and then how do we fashion and work together to fashion interventions um to to help make everyone's lives flourishing.
Campaign Strategies and Nationwide Efforts
00:39:28
Speaker
One of the ways it's affected, I guess myself and not me, not me probably as much because I am in a district that has sort of shielded us from some of this, you know, book sense and whatnot. And that's been a real difficult battle to navigate because we have lost some good titles.
00:39:46
Speaker
you know to this to this fight and I think one day we'll get them back but it is it is affecting us in a lot of ways and so I'm glad to know you're talking long term and not just the next six months or the next ah election cycle and I think it's good to know for folks to know that though you're focusing a lot of energy here in Texas, this is ah this is a nationwide campaign. I mean, Christians Against christian ah Christian Nationalism was not written for Texas. It was written for a bigger audience. so That's right. That's right. Yeah, so we came to North Texas as a pilot project. if What does a local organizing project look like? And we're actively
00:40:31
Speaker
looking at how do we replicate what we're doing in North Texas and other communities. um Right now there is a local group in Minneapolis, Minnesota, um that is led by a really active volunteer. And so we're thinking in the near term,
00:40:48
Speaker
that the model may very well be you know a more volunteer led in other parts of the country and other parts of Texas um just from a resource standpoint not having all the resources to hire an organizer in all the communities that could benefit um but how do we then put those um different leaders in touch with each other to share information about what has worked in their communities and and to encourage each other. and But our dream is that we would have Christians against Christian nationalism groups, whatever they want to call themselves, um ah really working to ah in communities across the country. And in fact, um I have an opportunity, as the book comes out,
00:41:32
Speaker
to go to a lot of these communities and our our book tour stops are are being organized in such a way to really lift up the local groups that are doing the work already and to help people kind of feed directly into local work and maybe even forming some of these coalitions um and strengthening the coalitions that are working in in place.
00:41:55
Speaker
I have to say i I do appreciate the diversity of the ages you have on your TikTok channel ah because i don't know I don't know the young woman who who I see most of the time on there. She's great. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, exactly. And we've trying to kind of come up with different channels that will meet people where they are no matter what um generation they're from. So yes, we have a ah great TikTok ah account and channel that's really gone viral a few times and that was created by Jin Zear, you know, the digital native in that way. And um and then we also have a Facebook community group um that generationally is a little older, but that has become like a great place for communication and idea sharing um in that environment as well.
00:42:47
Speaker
um and so And then, of course, we have some of these in-person opportunities. So we're really trying to find how do we yeah have a campaign that kind of meets people where they are and encourages greater involvement um in in whatever way makes sense for them and their communities.
00:43:06
Speaker
You've given, I think, a ah lot to think about and consider. You know, you've given me almost an hour of your time, and I so i definitely appreciate it. It sounds like what we need to do is, number one, go out and get the book, How to End Christian Nationalism, on Broadleaf
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:43:22
Speaker
Books. and
00:43:28
Speaker
ah The campaign is at endchristiannationalism.org. So the campaign, so End Christian Nationalism is the ah the TikTok and the Instagram, and the ah website is christiansagainstchristiannationalism.org. Well, thank you again for your time. I mean, this is a topic we could talk hours about, but like you said, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. So I just appreciate you being here. so Thanks for having me.
00:44:00
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining us here at The Table. I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Amanda Tyler. Remember to check out further information at my website at www.WelcomeToTheTable.com. Remember to subscribe, leave a comment, and look forward to seeing you next time.