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We Tried Hand Barrel Double Oak & Debated the Mothman
8 Plays2 days ago
Welcome to Bourbon Legends — the show where we crack open a new bottle and then crack open something even more dangerous: the truth. This is Episode 0, and we're starting big. Justin and Jeff pour Hand Barrel Double Oak Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey — a high-rye, non-chill filtered, double-barrelled beast bottled at 105 proof — and then spend the episode going deep on one of America's most chilling urban legends: the Mothman. Point Pleasant, West Virginia. 1966. A winged, red-eyed creature begins appearing to locals. Then the Silver Bridge collapses, and 46 people die. Coincidence? Harbinger? Government cover-up? Justin and Jeff weigh in — glass in hand. (Kevin was on vacation. He'll answer for that next week.)
Transcript
Exchanging Secrets Under Flickering Lanterns
00:00:16
Speaker
Under the canopy, the lanterns flicker slow. Three shadows seated where the darkling rivers flow. Footprints in the mud, a question in the trees.
00:00:32
Speaker
We trade our secrets to the Idahoan The bottle breathes its fire, the amber spirit burns Waiting for the moment that the wheel of mystery turns Bourbon legends
00:00:53
Speaker
The legends never die underneath the Idahoan sky. With every glass we raise, the hidden truth is found.
00:01:05
Speaker
While the spirits of the past rise from the hallowed ground. Conspiracies and spirits, we walk the jagged line Tracing every pattern, seeking every sign From the mountains to the plains, the whispers call our name With the amber nectar, we eat the ancient flame To the legends we remain Bourbon legends
00:01:39
Speaker
Welcome to episode 0.5 of Bourbon Legends.
Introduction and Show Format Discussion
00:01:44
Speaker
I'm Justin and I'm here with my co-host or one of my co-hosts, Jeff. Our other co-host, Kevin, is not able to be here because he's on a dumb camping trip with his family instead of enjoying bourbon with his friends. Yeah, priorities.
00:01:58
Speaker
Terrible priorities. So today we're going to be doing what we do every single episode going forward. We're going to have a type of bourbon that we're going to be trying and kind of rating. And on top of that, we're going to be talking about a urban legend or a conspiracy theory or something like that that we just feel like talking.
00:02:17
Speaker
So this week we'll actually be talking about the Mothman since Jeff is from West Virginia and has firsthand experience. They they went to high school together.
Bourbon Tasting: Hand Barrel Kentucky Straight Bourbon
00:02:26
Speaker
we And we're going to be trying this bourbon, which we've actually tried before. It's Hand Barrel Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. It's 52.5% alcohol. It's 105 proof and it is made by Hand Barrel Bourbon LLC.
00:02:42
Speaker
This actually showed up in one of my bourbon subscriptions. So it was pretty good. Actually, it was the first bottle I got in the subscription, and it was actually the best bottle I think I got out of all of them.
00:02:56
Speaker
So what we're going to do is just have a little sip here. Jeff is more of the bourbon expert than me. To me, I'm like either you or thumbs up. and This one was definitely a thumbs up, but we'll give it a rating as well.
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah. Should do the rating at the beginning after we taste it or wait until make it wait until the end. Find out. Well, if we can do it after that, Smells good though. It's not too strong.
00:03:25
Speaker
I like it. Even though it's been open a while, it held up pretty well. It's got a little bit of spice to it going down, but in your mouth, it's not overly powerful.
00:03:36
Speaker
So it's got a nice little sweet taste to it and you get a little bit of kick going down, but it doesn't burn the crack. No. So I really enjoy this one. There's another bottle that we, I'm sure we'll do on another episode that's white. it Wasn't quite as good, but I think out of 10, 10 being the best bourbons I've had, this is like a six and a half or seven Mothman balls out of 10.
00:04:02
Speaker
the What about you? I mean. You've had way more bourbons than I have. so I have. I've had some. Really expensive ones, too. I don't know. It's not too far off the mark, and it's definitely better than average, so it's got to be above a five. Yeah.
00:04:21
Speaker
I think anything above of i think a five is probably decent. i've I've definitely had a couple threes. I probably have a couple threes at the house. I've got a couple back there. It's bad.
00:04:32
Speaker
They've been there for years, and they'll probably stay there. So somewhere between five and in seven Mothman balls? I'd say... It's at least six Mothman balls. Nice. So that's three whole Mothman. Three whole Mothman mine was three and a half Mothman. Or four Mothman. One of them just was missing one. Yeah, got too close to the lamp.
00:04:53
Speaker
Very good. So... Definitely recommend. This came from ah one of the bourbon subscription companies, so chances of you getting it are if they decide to send it to you. But I think you can just buy it from the website anyways.
00:05:07
Speaker
Pretty good.
Introduction to the Mothman Legend
00:05:08
Speaker
Worth a try. I think it's a not the most expensive bottle, but it's pretty good bang for its buck. So anyways, we'll get on to the Mothman product.
00:05:19
Speaker
not the prophecies because that was a movie, uh, with just the whole legend of the mothman as a urban legend. Um, I know of the mothman. I haven't like researched too much into the mothman, but like I said before, Jeff grew up in West Virginia where the mothman is from. So they're, they, they go way back. So I'll let, I'll let Jeff jake take over here while I drink my bourbon.
00:05:44
Speaker
We're going have swap out occasionally. All right. So Mothman creature reportedly seen primarily, not exclusively, in Point Pleasant, West Virginia.
00:05:58
Speaker
um Primarily between November 1966 to December 15th, 1967. Most famously, it
00:06:08
Speaker
most famously it was
00:06:13
Speaker
back home referred to as a harbinger. So during that time, that's when the bridge collapsed. Mothman was seen just before the bridge collapse.
00:06:24
Speaker
They'd been visiting this family, giving them kind of dreams and everything else before the bridge collapse. Not exactly of it, but alluding to it.
00:06:35
Speaker
So is it like a harbinger of destruction or is this, or was the Mothman warning these people that this was going to happen? See, that's, that's the part that's still hotly debated.
00:06:48
Speaker
You have a large group of people that are like, oh no, Mothman means no harm. It just warns you of things to come. Yeah. And then you have others where it's like, do we know? Because it was seen at the bridge. It launched from the bridge moments before it collapsed. Yeah.
00:07:05
Speaker
Did it have something to do with it? Yeah. We all know how moths chew through clothes and everything else. So... And just like other cryptids where there's always a debate, like there seems to be good cryptids and there seems to be other cryptids that they think are evil. So like Bigfoot or something they're like, oh, he's Bigfoot's good.
00:07:26
Speaker
And like the Chupacabra would be evil. I imagine. I don't know. Goat suckers. Yeah.
Exploring Mothman Encounters and Theories
00:07:34
Speaker
So continuing on with that, one of the most famous encounters came on November 15th, 1966, when Roger and Linda Scarberry and Steve and Mary Mallett reported seeing a large flying man with 10-foot wings with glowing red eyes while driving along State Route 62, just north of Point Pleasant.
00:07:53
Speaker
So personally, I've never seen a guy with 10-foot wings before. i mean, I've seen the Batman movies. So I guess I kind of have seen them before. Are those 10 foot wings he's got? Yeah. So it's a 10 foot wings. Well, i meant Batman. Oh, Batman. Yeah. He extends it out like this. Like it goes a little farther out. He's what? Over six foot. Yeah. I think it's, it depends on the Batman probably. oh Probably. Yeah.
00:08:17
Speaker
But yeah. So Mothman would be probably bigger than Batman. Yes. Definitely scarier, because a dude dressed as a bat in an actual cryptid that looks like a moth would be terrifying. a giant moth-like person, yes.
00:08:30
Speaker
Have we ever thought about the possibility that the Mothman is the child of Mothra?
00:08:38
Speaker
I don't think so. I don't think it's bad. I don't think that's ever been done. There's not very many famous moth or moth people. No, there's really not. You figure there might be some connection. course, West Virginia and Japan are very far apart.
00:08:53
Speaker
True. So let's... Both equally as isolated. Yes. and So they saw a menacing figure standing six to seven feet tall near an abandoned National Guard armory building and power plant. And when they say six to seven feet tall, I have to keep in mind this is in the 60s.
00:09:11
Speaker
So people were a little smaller back then. So six to seven feet back then was pretty big. You had Will Chamberlain with 10-foot wings at that time, basically. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:25
Speaker
I mean, it's not uncommon back home. I have a couple cousins. Like, I'm the gru i'm the smallest. And I have a couple cousins who are between 6'7 and seven three Yeah. i have I have a couple tall cousins.
00:09:38
Speaker
and I'm not tall. I'm the averagest of averages. You also have to consider, like, West Virginia is the meth capital of the United States. But does that make you grow bigger or smaller? That's right.
00:09:52
Speaker
Depends on how good the stuff is you're smoking, I guess. So, panicking, Roger Scarberry sped away and the creature followed, rising like a helicopter and easily keeping pace even as the car hit 100 miles per hour.
00:10:07
Speaker
Over the following 13 months, over 100 witnesses reported encounters with a large winged humanoid creature standing between 6 and 7 feet tall with enormous red eyes and a wingspan estimated 10
The Silver Bridge Collapse and Related Conspiracies
00:10:18
Speaker
15 feet. here's...
00:10:19
Speaker
so here's I love it. It's West Virginia. It's my home state. I obviously want to represent it, but this is where in the story i start kind of losing it.
00:10:33
Speaker
It rose up straight like a helicopter. It's a moth creature, but the that's not how a moth would fly. No. Like they, you would normally like launch and then flap and they don't really hover even when they're bumping into like your light bulb on your porch. Like it's back and forth.
00:10:52
Speaker
And then as someone one who grew up in southern West Virginia, where the hell is it straight enough to go 100 miles an hour? If you go straight through the forest, i yeah get the stop is a a lot harder. i mean, I know it's the 60s and like the vehicles back then are all built like tanks, but 100 miles an hour, that's impressive. Mm-hmm.
00:11:20
Speaker
Now, the other thing I thought, now this is my conspiracy side, if they actually, people were seeing all of these sightings of the same thing, red eyes, big wings, and then, of course, they said, rose like a helicopter, right? So what if the Mothman, because these people don't know what they're seeing, isn't actually a Mothman?
00:11:42
Speaker
we It was originally seen over by an armory, right, and for the military. yeah What if it was military technology that they were trying out in the area, and then they, whoever was flying it, just was dumb enough to keep getting caught.
00:11:57
Speaker
yeah True. Over and over. I mean, the wings, I don't know how to explain that unless it's for gliding. If they had some other kind of propulsion, that could explain why it rose like a helicopter rather than, you know, flapping like ah like a moth or a bird or something with wings would.
00:12:13
Speaker
And red eyes, especially at nighttime, might be infrared vision. Could be. So... They also use red at night because it's less harmful to night vision because it engages the rods instead of the cones in your eyes.
00:12:32
Speaker
Yes. And you know that because you were in the military and you had to use night vision. i did. so So that was like my thinking about it is, I mean, we've had many times in history where the government says, eh, you know, that was nothing. And it's just because they're denying whatever they were doing. Could it be cryptid monster? If so, what what happened to it?
00:12:56
Speaker
Where did it come from? Never made it out of beta. Yeah, exactly. Never made it out of beta. It just terrorized
Skepticism and Cultural Impact of Mothman
00:13:02
Speaker
a little small area of West Virginia for a decent amount of time and then suddenly disappeared. Crashed into a bridge, weakened it, it fell.
00:13:10
Speaker
now Mothman. Yeah, Mothman. Be like the guy from History Channel. Mothman. aliens.
00:13:19
Speaker
So one of the other ones, and this is the one that you were talking about earlier, was the Silver Bridge collapse. It's where the the legend kind of really like catches on. it was December 15th of 1967, the Silver Bridge connecting Point Pleasant, Western Virginia to Gallipolis, Ohio.
00:13:38
Speaker
Gallopolis. Who cares? it's It's Ohio. No one cares about Ohio. Collapsed under the weight of rush hour traffic, killing 46 people with two victims still missing. I'm going to assume those two victims are also dead. I mean, it's been a long time. It's been a long It's 1967.
00:13:58
Speaker
That's 60, almost 60 years. Yeah. It's a still when my dad was a kid. Yeah. The Mothman sightings, which had been occurring for 13 months, stopped almost immediately after the collapse. Official investigations in 1971 determined the bridge collapse was caused by stress corrosion cracking in an eye bar in a suspension chain.
00:14:19
Speaker
A mundane engineering failure, but the timing of the sightings ceasing permanently embedded the creature in disaster mythology. So, like you said, it was ah the harbinger of doom. Now, having lived in West Virginia, do do you have family that claims to have or people that you knew that claimed to have seen the Mothman, slept with the Mothman? no No. Had babies with the Mothman?
00:14:48
Speaker
The National Enquirer. That's the tabloids. You ever reading those at the stands? Oh, yeah, at checkout stands. They had, like, Bat Boy. And I slept with Bigfoot. And now here's next week's episode. Here's his baby. I'm pretty sure those all came out of West Virginia, too.
00:15:01
Speaker
Mostly. no I prefer not to say. Was that was that show, the one with a what was it The Wonderful Whites or whatever? Is that West Virginia? Yeah. Up in the Appalachians? Yeah.
00:15:14
Speaker
So maybe maybe that's what happened to the Mothman. He settled down and... Found him a toothless woman. Yeah, he's like, as good as it gets. you Don't get no better, boys. No. ah Yeah, I hate that it focuses... Side tangent, I hate that a lot of the stuff around West Virginia focuses on like the one and two off exceptions.
00:15:40
Speaker
West Virginia's full of smart... innovative people that have really contributed to society as a whole. But you have like the whites of West Virginia and some of these others where it's like one-off situations, but oh no, that's what it's all about. It's like that one thing. It's like, I built a hundred bridges. Don't call me a a bridge builder, but suck one wiener and they call me gay. That's exactly what it is. There's one inbred family there and they're all inbred there. No, that's just that bunch. They're all with their cousins.
00:16:14
Speaker
So, no, so going back to Mothman. Yeah, I mean, ah there's plenty of smart people there.
00:16:26
Speaker
and know Especially if they're commuting, going out of state and everything else like Point Pleasant. I don't know anything about the area. so you're the you're the expert on Point Pleasant or anywhere in West Virginia.
00:16:42
Speaker
I mean, that's, it's, Not exactly near any major industry, but a lot of the people over there, like they have common sense. They've grown up in the woods. They've seen things. They know what everything is. They can identify it just by the sound it makes.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah. And the next holler over. Yeah, hunting and stuff is popular to where you know what a ah deer sounds like versus... you know, something else. And the part, I know I kind of indicated earlier her that, you know, this part of it kind of loses me, but then this part of it kind of brings me back to it.
00:17:18
Speaker
All of these people, all of this stuff happened and it's like, Hey, like nobody's seen or heard from this being since. Like, it's not like Bigfoot where it's like, it pops up here and there and everywhere. A hundred plus years of sightings. Yeah. It's like, Hey, this one thing happened and nothing, not a peep. Mm-hmm.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, and it it could have been anything for that matter. And now i'm I'm seeing now, I don't know if you know, because I didn't look for specifications on it, but the power plant that was there, I'm assuming that's just a standard power plant, not a nuclear power plant. So I was going to say, if there was a nuclear power plant, that could always be a a radiation type issue. But I don't think...
00:18:02
Speaker
trying to think if there's even a new i don't think there's a nuclear power plant in west virginia it's all coal local yeah we have quite a few now don't know about so much back then that are essentially multi-fuel you can take whatever like a a lot of people that's how they dispose of their corn husks and uh everything is they'll take it there this place burns it generates electricity So here's some of the skeptical skeptical explanations that people have had previously. Source of the legend is believed by many to have originated from sightings of out-of-migration sandhill cranes or herons.
00:18:40
Speaker
Critics argue the association between the Mothman and the bridge collapse is a form of narrative retrofitting, coincidence and grief it reinterpreted through a sensational story. Which, that happens. You know, you there's a big catastrophe.
00:18:53
Speaker
People are hurt, injured, killed. You're going to see things and you're going to fit things with your brain based on your understanding of things. Especially small town. Everybody's going to know. yeah how you And you've been seeing hundreds of sightings of the Mothman. Then this bridge collapses and you're like, it was the Mothman, his final FU to West Virginia. Yeah.
00:19:13
Speaker
Before he goes to Ohio where he belongs. Went to Ohio where he decided to play for the Browns and was never heard from again. yeah I mean, distinct possibility, but i I've seen Sandhill Cranes.
00:19:30
Speaker
Yeah. I have never seen a seven foot sandhill crane. We're looking like a pterodactyl. i mean, I think the biggest one I've seen is probably four footish. Yeah. That'd be a big crane. And then the fact that they also said that it was humanoid.
00:19:45
Speaker
Like, I guess in silhouette, maybe you could think it was, but I don't know. I mean, they have a big beak. That's not humanoid. And in big red eyes. Like, I guess light reflecting could make the eyes red, but.
00:20:01
Speaker
why are they out there flying around at night and they don't birds won't fly at night yeah and you can clearly identify that it's not a mothman versus a crane during the day yeah so i think that i would probably rule out that it was that could just be a figment of people's imagination as always um Maybe lay off the nose candy.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah. Like you said, a lot bam a lot of meth there. I don't know about the 60s. 60s, yeah, but cocaine. Yeah. Probably a lot of alcoholics too. i mean, it goes without saying. They were not, in fact, bourbon legends. They were not, no.
00:20:42
Speaker
So the core of the Mothman legends genuinely compelling is folklore, a 13-month window of mass sightings, a real catastrophic tragedy with the bridge, and an abrupt end all in one small town.
00:20:54
Speaker
So I know some people say it's mass hysteria. Some people think that it's real. I'm sure most people think it's not real. And as far as cryptids go, obviously it's it's a cool story.
Explaining the Mothman Legend
00:21:07
Speaker
But to me, it doesn't have the lasting power of some of the other ones. Yeah.
00:21:13
Speaker
You know Bigfoot. Everyone knows Bigfoot. Everyone sees Bigfoot. I just saw something the other day. Bigfoot's not isolated to a single area either. Yes, that's true. You know, the Bigfoot's not like, you know, I'm going to hang out in this one town in West Virginia. Yeah.
00:21:27
Speaker
And you're not going to see him at the bar smoking a cigar. No, no. But the, I mean, i speaking of Bigfoot, I did see ah something the other day. You Bigfoot?
00:21:38
Speaker
No, I didn't see Bigfoot. and I saw something. Saw some big old bitches. i've Seen those too. But I did see... them pick his shoes up I did see a a video of someone talking about some teens that supposedly saw a herd of Bigfoots here in Idaho. Or Bigfeet?
00:21:56
Speaker
what it's it is Is it like the herd? Is it a group? Is it a family? Is it a unit? I don't know. And is it Bigfoot or Bigfeet? Like in Lord of the Rings? Yeah. Proudfoot or Proudfeet. Yeah, true. So, true but, but like I said, I don't think the Mothman has the staying power of the Bigfoot or a lot of the other ones, because while the Mothman was scary, I suppose, imagine if you saw a flying thing with red eyes, you'd be terrified.
00:22:27
Speaker
I lean more towards either they didn't see what they thought they saw or like based on the area, I wouldn't be surprised if it was some kind of, uh, of different techs that the, that the air force or someone was trying to develop. I mean, think about how big of a mystery the stealth bomber was true for years and years and years.
00:22:50
Speaker
You had, I mean, I hadn't really considered it until you mentioned it, but yeah, that a lot of that story does fit with maybe some military testing. Like it was an add in armor. It was at an army in West Virginia. Mm-hmm.
00:23:05
Speaker
We already know there's a lot of declassified stuff. like The government's used West Virginia as place for the presidential bunker, place for other VIP bunkers.
00:23:17
Speaker
Decommissioned, by the way, so if you're using this info to try to target America, you.
00:23:24
Speaker
Yeah. They moved. yeah It's just a tourist place for kids to go now. and like So don't blow up kids. Please don't. Yeah, it's in that we've seen so many times over the past that the government has, oh, you know, it's a weather balloon.
00:23:40
Speaker
I'm surprised they didn't say the Mothman was a weather balloon. Swamp gases. o So here's here's something else to consider. And especially since we're talking about a group, ah you do have DuPont Chemical, which is a huge chemical production and storage facility in West Virginia.
00:24:01
Speaker
It's one of the biggest on the East Coast, if not the biggest. Is that the same company that does the paint and all that, DuPont? Or is that different one? No, it's a... I mean... Could be. DuPont kind of has their fingers in everything. If it's got chemicals involved, somehow they're associated or directly adjacent to...
00:24:22
Speaker
Could there have been a leak that went on for, i mean, 13 months and then this happened? I mean, that would explain the mass hysteria. Certain chemicals in the water or in the soil that were affecting people and causing people to hallucinate and enough people together, like trying to figure out what exactly they're seeing. That would make sense. You're like, oh man, I saw something. It was weird. and they're like, I saw it.
00:24:47
Speaker
It looked like a big moth dude with red eyes. And they're like I think that's what I saw, too. Yeah, that sounds exactly like what I saw. Hold up. Wait a minute. So, yeah, I mean, there's all kinds of plausible things, but getting down to the meat of it, do you believe the Mothman was real?
00:25:10
Speaker
I don't know.
00:25:13
Speaker
If you were leaning one way... I was leaning one way... I would have to lean slightly towards no. See, and I agree with you. I would lean towards no that there's a real actual Mothman.
00:25:31
Speaker
Now, did they see something? That's possibility. That's a definite possibility. Was it a ah hairy flying Mothman with red eyes?
00:25:43
Speaker
I mean, i wasn't there, so I can't say 100%. Never rule anything out, but... Chances are low. it's not like or It's not like a TV show.
00:25:53
Speaker
If someone opened some sarcophagus in West Virginia that released a Mothman demon creature and then it was like, what the hell am I doing in West Virginia?
00:26:06
Speaker
And it got the heck out of there. You made a left turn in Albuquerque. It probably went down to Florida, honestly. And that's why everything's so so weird there. Yeah, it just blends in now. It's not even new or normal or abnormal.
00:26:23
Speaker
it have went to California as well. No. That would have been a long flight. Yeah. Definitely. If it went everywhere, definitely Florida.
00:26:34
Speaker
It's going to fit right in. It's got its own people. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's just a mothman, man. He's really cool. Yeah. Take some of that dust off of his wings, man. It's so good.
00:26:47
Speaker
So, personally, don't... He opened a meth house. It's got second-hand effects. He became the the Walter White of moths. yeah Good. Selling blue meth.
00:26:59
Speaker
so So basically, for in in my opinion, the Mothman, not plausible as an actual supernatural being.
00:27:11
Speaker
i think, to me, it's plausible as some kind of government test. Or, like Jeff said, it could definitely be some kind of contempt chemical contaminant that caused mass hysteria in the area.
00:27:26
Speaker
And... And I don't know what stopped it or what woke them up. Maybe, maybe the bridge being destroyed, snapped people out of it. That's why they never saw it again. Or maybe that was a, maybe that was a false flag so that the government could, could clean up the chemicals.
00:27:43
Speaker
And then that's why they never saw it again. Yeah. So that's kind of what I was looking towards. Yeah. So, uh, there's no warning signs about this. Boom. Bridge collapse. Yeah. Oh Breach clapped. Now everybody quits seeing Mothman. kind of sus. Yeah.
Episode Wrap-Up and Next Topic Teaser
00:28:00
Speaker
So what we're saying is probably don't trust the government. That's right. Not as far as you can throw them at least. so yeah Do you have anything else? I think think we've pretty much covered most everything that I can think of. That's like our.5 episode.
00:28:20
Speaker
Yeah, so... Probably should have been short. It is short. um But like we said, this is episode 0.5. We have another co-host that will be here when he's done doing actual family stuff like a responsible adult.
00:28:34
Speaker
um We'll have a different bourbon each time because he wasn't here for the first 0.5. He didn't get to try this delicious hand barrel. He's tried before, so he won't feel too bad.
00:28:45
Speaker
But we'll try to get a really gross one next week for his first episode. But... i have to go We'll probably be going. it'll It'll be different from time to time. This week was a Urban Legend, which obviously Bourbon Legends was kind of named off of. But next week, we'll probably be looking at a conspiracy theory. In the future, we're going to probably create a wheel or draw out of a hat so that we just, at the end of the episode, reach in, pull something out, and boom, there it is. But I'm thinking for next week, or whenever we do our next episode, is probably going to be, was the moon landing real?
00:29:21
Speaker
One of my personal favorites. So hotly. So hot right now. Hansel. So thank you for joining us for bourbon legends. I'm Justin. I'm Jeff. And we will see you next time with a different bourbon.
00:29:40
Speaker
Legends.