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Pushing Uphill in the Scottish Screen Industry
22 Plays3 months ago
What happens when you finally start getting somewhere – and the road ahead simply disappears?
In episode two of Creativity Isn’t Dead Yet, Jo Osborne chats with Director, Editor & Animator Ash (Director of Cinora Films) about the messy reality of working in Scotland’s screen industry right now – from burnout and budget cuts to building your own platform just to be heard.
They talk about:
- Ash’s latest film, The Boulder : a 3-minute whirlwind through the chaos of being an artist in a collapsing industry
- the ups and downs of being a multi-hyphenate
- why building a community matters (even if you’re bad at networking)
- making meaningful work when everything feels a bit pointless
- and what Jurassic Park has to do with AI
It’s a funny, fiery conversation full of sighs, swearing, and unexpected hope. You’re not alone – and you’re definitely not the only one winging it.
Follow on Instagram: @creativityisntdeadyet
Watch The Boulder: www.cinorafilms.com/theboulder
More from Ash: www.cinorafilms.com
Promised links to articles about AI: bit.ly/4miwgMz | yhoo.it/4kEwV9x
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Transcript
Introduction and Overview of Scottish Screen Industry
00:00:00
Speaker
Someone wrote in that video, like, why would anyone care about the Scottish screen industry?
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome back to Creativity Isn't Dead Yet, the podcast for anyone trying to stay afloat in the UK's creative industries. I'm Jo Osborne, editor, animator and chronic work in progress.
00:00:31
Speaker
Each episode, I talk to somebody navigating the ups and downs of making a living from creative work in a system that doesn't always make it easy. Today I'm joined by Ash, director, editor and animator and director of Sonora Films.
00:00:44
Speaker
We discuss the Scottish film industry, the chaos and joy of being a multi-hyphenate and the power of community. She tells me about her latest film, The Boulder, and how AI is already taking work away from her.
Ash's Film 'The Boulder' and Its Inspirations
00:00:57
Speaker
but also how there's room for a wee bit of cautious optimism. Plus, I massively misquote Jurassic Park, but I'm sure life will find a way to move on. Let's get into it.
00:01:09
Speaker
Welcome, Ash. Thank you so much for for joining me on Creativity Isn't Dead Yet, the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. So I just want to jump right in and and say, um I mean, I watched your film, at The Boulder recently at Cafe Flicker.
00:01:24
Speaker
i was totally enthralled by it. um And I just want to I just want to dig into it a little bit. But before we do, can you tell the people listening what The Boulder is? Absolutely.
00:01:36
Speaker
So The Boulder is a very short three minute film that follows an artist and And it uses the allegory of Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the hill and the boulder rolling back down and him being trapped for eternity, constantly pushing it back up again.
00:01:57
Speaker
And it portrays the artist as repeatedly painting and trying to break into the art world and just being faced with the simultaneous success and failure of being awarded commissions, being denied commissions,
00:02:12
Speaker
of people being supportive, but also diminishing her work and of just feeling like you never really take a step forward and that you're always pushing the boulder up the hill. So it's a very short film. It's only three minutes long and it's super fast paced.
00:02:26
Speaker
I wanted it to feel like one big montage and just this really big delve into the chaos of what it's like working the creative industries. Yeah.
00:02:38
Speaker
Well, I think it showcases that very, very well. Thanks. i um I really love like the artistic style of it and the themes it portrayed. I was thinking it kind of felt like a huge sigh and a scream all at once.
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And it did come from a place where i was sighing and screaming. m I started my production company just over a year ago, and that was in direct response to some opportunities for filmmakers closing down. And there had been ah succession of closures and disappointments that led up to this one really big one that hit me personally.
00:03:20
Speaker
and it was in that moment that I felt like, first of all, i need to do something in order to fight back against how like disappointing and just really dismal everything feels at the moment.
00:03:34
Speaker
And then i guess the idea for the short film came around from all of those feelings and from speaking to people about what they were experiencing as well, which...
00:03:45
Speaker
again, was was really a lot of crushing disappointment in amongst little moments of there's still hope, we can still push through, things are still happening, at least there's this.
00:03:56
Speaker
But just overall, this feeling of like, nobody really knew if we were moving forward or not. And yeah, it was a very big sigh scream at the same time. Yeah. You said about, um you know, you're and being inspired to make it from like all the disappointments in the industry. Was there anything like but particular happening in your life at that time that kind of led to making of that?
Ash's Journey and Coping with Career Challenges
00:04:20
Speaker
Yeah, so I had been on a really long journey and i think a lot of creative people, The dream of being a creative starts really young and you just know you you're always making stuff and you're always told like, oh, you're really good at drawing and you're really good at this. And you just always have that part of your identity that you want to express. And so you go through college, you go through uni, you work for free to cut your teeth and you finally break in and get the opportunities. And it it took me over 10 years after graduating to really make progress in the industry and start to work on stuff that I was really proud of, that really displayed who I was and the skills that I had.
00:05:09
Speaker
And it felt like i was really just scratching the surface and I had one foot in the door. And all of the opportunities that were for people at my level were closing down one after the other.
00:05:21
Speaker
There was a project in particular that and I felt really ready for. And at the end of 2023, had had discussions with Screen Scotland about the next steps in my career. And they had told me, this is the path that you can go on to get to that next level.
00:05:41
Speaker
And then a few months later, that path collapsed. And that was the moment where I thought, well, if it's gone, I have nothing. I literally do not have a way forward now. It's been cut off to me. And it's so hard. you know You're up against more than just the competition of others around you.
00:06:01
Speaker
the way that the media landscape is at the moment, you're up against so many other factors. But certainly part of the journey was that moment of, okay, great. like I've been told by them how to make it.
00:06:14
Speaker
Now that's gone. So that was a real big catalyst and in the process for me. Yeah, that sounds incredibly frustrating. Like, don't how would deal with that. The devastation.
00:06:26
Speaker
It's quite difficult to describe because there's not a lot of other walks of life where you feel the same way It's like... Oh, that the the the way forward in my career, the future that I've been building for myself for months now, that is no longer available. Like,
00:06:49
Speaker
any But you still got the hope and the drive to make it happen. It's just you're directionless instead. And I was genuinely devastated like that entire evening. I just I wanted to cry. But then it was like tears aren't appropriate.
00:07:09
Speaker
That's not a that's not how I want. That's not how this should come out. it was how How should it come out? you think Yeah, it was really hard to figure out like, how do you channel like that frustration? And I guess what ultimately happened was that I channeled it into making the boulder. So it came out in a way.
00:07:29
Speaker
I think that's a really healthy way to let it come out, actually. i'm definitely yeah I'm definitely a crier. um ah But yeah, actually putting your emotion and your disappointment and your your grief, probably, into creativity is it sounds like such a healthy healthy way to channel it to me.
00:07:50
Speaker
Thanks. And I guess, in a way, it's also my comfort zone is creating things. like I find whenever I get a bit stressed or a bit overwhelmed that actually just coming back into well I can do a little edit or I'll just like make a little reel for TikTok and Instagram or something like that like and these are small things but there's something comforting about being in that space and so yeah when I feel the stress I tend to go and create something because I'm kind of like that's where I feel comfortable.
Sonora Films and Building Community in Scottish Film Industry
00:08:23
Speaker
Cool. So you you ended up starting Sonora about a year ago, right? And it feels like it came about for similar reasons as this podcast, i really.
00:08:33
Speaker
And I love that your first YouTube video starts with and about about the Scottish film industry opens up simple, it's fucked. me what What pushed you to make that at that time?
00:08:47
Speaker
I mean, I was very much wearing my emotions on my sleeve at that point.
00:08:53
Speaker
But tim at the time i was working ah as an editor for a collection of YouTube channels and i had done YouTube videos before but I'd really just been in my own little world and when I started working on these other channels they were more established they had like a way bigger community and they were both monetized and they were making like um So enough money to employ me as an editor. And then also they had all these merchandise sales and they were doing a podcast where they invited guests on.
00:09:25
Speaker
And honestly, the whole thing i found very inspirational. And I thought to myself, God, it'd be great if there was something out there for the film industry where... but you got to see a video every week about what's going on and you got to hear from m interviewees and all that kind of stuff.
00:09:41
Speaker
So yeah, you know, the convergence of am things really disappointing me and this drive to create something got me to start Sonora and it's simultaneously like a YouTube channel with a social media presence. And I put out a video at least once a week to inform people of what's happening in the Scottish screen industry, mostly because that's where I operate, but sometimes broader than that. Sometimes I'll kind of like take a look at what's happening just in the TV and film space in general.
00:10:16
Speaker
And then as well as that, we produce films. But yeah, with my YouTube content, I wanted, and I still want to build a community in Scotland for people who work in film and TV so that we can talk about how difficult it is and actually like hear from each other in terms of what's happening because I think what I found a little bit frustrating was that if you were looking for help and advice online about working in the industry it was so US centric and even if you're looking at UK stuff it was really London centric and both of those places operate completely differently to how we operate here and it just was really hard to actually find anything that gave you insight into how the industry is in Scotland
00:11:02
Speaker
and how you break into it, how you navigate it what kind of things are out there for you to tap into. and um it can be really overwhelming to try and track all of that by yourself.
00:11:13
Speaker
So yeah, I was very strategic in in my first video being what the fuck happened to the Scottish screen industry because I knew that that would get people to click and engage and share as well. And they did.
00:11:29
Speaker
Like yeah straight away, people started to reach out am and talk about their experiences, invite me into groups where they talk about it, and invite me out for coffee to discuss like what kind of action they're taking and how they're doing it.
00:11:44
Speaker
It opened a lot of doors and I've met a lot of people through doing it. So it was definitely successful, but it's still an ongoing like sort of project to build a community and create a space that like can help others because I'm kind of learning along the way.
00:12:00
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, I think that's great, like that you're, that you're focused on building a community that you're, that you're posting so, so regularly on social media. um That's something that I've always kind of struggled with, just like, you know, putting things out there regularly and keeping up with it and and stuff. So it's,
00:12:20
Speaker
It's really inspirational to see you doing that so regularly and and having kept up with it for over a year now and with with no signs of stopping, I can see.
Social Media and Creative Self-Promotion
00:12:31
Speaker
Well, we'll see what happens. We've got to make a living somehow. So, and but yeah, it's tough. It's really tough. If you've ever taken a stab at growing a social media platform actively, you will learn very quickly that it's like so much harder than it seems. so Mm hmm.
00:12:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I'm doing that at the moment with this. um And it's, ah yeah, I mean, there's a lot there's a lot to it But I don't know, just giving it a bash and see what happens.
00:13:01
Speaker
And that's the thing. i feel like most of what I learned, just although I was really inspired by the people I worked with and had kind of, you know, consciously absorbed all of the stuff that they were telling me about how they built their channels and community and all that kind of stuff you can't really make it happen until you just live through it and you make those little decisions along the way and i would say that you know the style of my content has gone in a lot of different directions since i started because
00:13:33
Speaker
You know, I immediately wanted to reach people in the Scottish screen industry and like provide them with tools and services and information.
00:13:44
Speaker
But I found that it was reaching beyond there. And I was getting comments from people being like, it's the same in Canada. Here's what happens with our industry. It's the same in New Zealand. Here's what happens here. And then I thought, oh, okay. So actually...
00:13:58
Speaker
Maybe it's a better idea not to be too Scotland-centric, although this is their the point of view that I'm coming to it from. It could be more inclusive and it could actually take a look at, well, actually, if you live outside of where the dominant cultural force you will experience a really similar type of industry that like works in a different way.
00:14:20
Speaker
There was one time I talked about the drama m ah around the traitors. So you know how and it came out that they use the money that's allocated to BBC Scotland to produce the traitors, even though it's a London-based production company.
00:14:38
Speaker
And most of the people on the production are London-based. Yeah. So that scandal broke and I discussed it because people in Scotland got really active in sort of pushing back.
00:14:49
Speaker
And there has been a lot of positive change off the back of that. So it's been a good thing that people talked about it. And all I did was talk about... that, like really present the facts. And I try to be quite unbiased in a way, although like there's still, you know, my personality is there. And like recently I talked about like how I find it really upsetting that humans are being replaced by ai but I do still try to sort of like keep things fair and balanced. But anyway, someone wrote in that video, like, why would anyone care about the Scottish screen industry?
00:15:24
Speaker
I mean, Scottish people for a start. Well, mate, you found yourself on a channel that's dedicated to that. So that's on you. Possibly not the target audience.
00:15:37
Speaker
Like, sorry, but what the fuck are you doing here?
00:15:42
Speaker
not apologizing. No, I think that's fair enough. I don't think you should. don't think that person needs an apology. It's just so funny. like Sometimes... you wonder what inspires people to type in the comments what they do. And like you read it back and you're like, do you hear yourself?
00:16:00
Speaker
But honestly, the first time I started to get sort of like negative comments that were maybe along the lines of like, you're not funny and stuff like that. it Again, i didn't find it super insulting because I was like, these people don't know me.
00:16:13
Speaker
But there there's a part of it that's a signal that you're reaching beyond your own little bubble. And that was quite nice because I was like, good. This means that there are also people that have watched this that love it.
00:16:24
Speaker
just haven't written anything, but they don't know me and yeah they're out there and they've been like, that was a good video. I'm going to watch the next thing. And like, you know, I'm now part of that world.
00:16:35
Speaker
I'm not just stuck in one space talking to the people that already hear me day to day. So yeah, I took it as a, took it as a positive. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, to be honest, I'm one of these people that does watch things and probably won't comment because I'm like, why do they care what I have to say? you know, like in the comment, they've got all these other comments. They don't really need to.
Balancing Privacy and Public Persona
00:16:56
Speaker
I'll type out a comment and then I'll be like, ah, it's not really adding anything to the conversation and I won't post it. But the funny thing is there are so many people that aren't adding anything to the conversation, but they feel compelled to tell you what their thoughts are.
00:17:12
Speaker
and you actually might put something out there that people resonate with. And I was talking to some people yesterday about and this sort of stuff. So podcasts and YouTube content and, you know, putting yourself out there because I think a lot of creative people struggle with, know,
00:17:29
Speaker
you know how to put how to channel your creativity into a film or your medium if you're a writer or if you're a performer like you know how to do that part of it social media is a different world and it feels like you have to be like really jazz hands and like constantly put yourself out there in ways that you might not want to and I was like I'm a very private person and I don't share anything about my family but my friends about my partner don't want anyone to know where I live I mean, that that's just a safety thing. 100%. I
00:18:05
Speaker
i mean, actually, that was something that is inspired because of the YouTubers I worked for and the people that would show up to our production office ready to meet the stars.
00:18:16
Speaker
And we were just like, they're not here. they have lives. And, you know, this is an office space where I'm just editing content, you know, and it was so awkward. It such a shame. People would bring their kids out.
00:18:27
Speaker
And I'd have to be like, I'm really sorry. No, and they're not here. they like That's not really how life works. They don't just cut about a building all day. But anyway, it really freaked me out. And I was like, I don't want people showing up to my house.
00:18:38
Speaker
I totally get that. And actually, ah something to to to add to that. um Years ago, um over years ago, i actually work um as a producer at an adult chat TV channel. la That would have been exciting. It's a very interesting job for sure, I tell you. And and I remember and hearing about and the they the girls' fans showing up at the studio and trying to
00:19:12
Speaker
trying to get to know them and stuff. Wow. A couple of them definitely had stalkers. It's a really scary world. no. It is a really scary world. Of course, that's a different situation. And, you know, like um the like the guys that are kind of obsessing that about them in a different way, probably. But, yeah.
00:19:30
Speaker
Yeah. Definitely. But it's like, it's the same as the effect that social media has now where people have that parasocial relationship with the people that they follow.
00:19:41
Speaker
It's so interesting. And I guess you'll feel this way too. When you're an editor, you see so much of a person and you see the bits that are cut out in the behind the scenes, really. Mm-hmm. and And you may be editing something that has just been dumped on your desk and you've never met anyone in production.
00:19:57
Speaker
But because you see so much of the people, you actually begin to think you know them and you meet them in real life. And then you're like, have we ever actually met? Or did i just know everything about you because I've seen it on screen?
00:20:09
Speaker
I have done that. I've just been like, oh, I know. it i Sorry, we haven't met before, but I've actually spent hours was watching your face. just like, yeah, that's creepy. But yeah, it's all that. And like people can't, you know, creatives can be really reluctant to share too much of themselves because it's not their comfort zone.
00:20:28
Speaker
And I get that. and And I think it's ah so tough that in this day and age, you kind of have to have an online presence in order to sell yourself like, yeah and I've been applying for work recently and like a lot of the CVs have asked for your social media handles, for your LinkedIn. A lot them have asked for me to film a video of myself talking about why I want a job or why I'm suitable for it. And I actually, for for some of those, I've just kind of been like, no, you don't that. For the initial application.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yes. Like the hundreds of people are doing. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm not, it's not a self tape scenario. I'm not an actor. Like you just need me to edit something. There's absolutely no need for you to see a video of me.
00:21:11
Speaker
m But yeah, I tried to be like really private about the stuff that I don't want to be out there online and then put out what I'm comfortable with people knowing. And to be honest, I'm totally fine with like talking about my career, talking about the screen industry and and life here as a creative.
00:21:29
Speaker
and i think it's constructive. I don't think it's constructive for people to know where I live and and show up. That's off limits. You know, I'm going agree with you there. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:46
Speaker
As you mentioned there about, you know, self-promotion and marketing yourself and and stuff like that. and I think we both probably describe ourselves as like multi-hyphenates, you know, able to do a whole bunch of different things.
00:22:01
Speaker
Because of that, I mean, i've I personally find it hard to market myself. I remember probably like 10 or so years ago, as went to this STV party and this like big exec and asked me what do. And I kind of like,
00:22:14
Speaker
I was just kind of winging it at the time. I wasn't really sure. And I reeled off a whole bunch of stuff with zero confidence probably. Um, and i remember him like being like, you know, here's some advice, um, stick to one thing and like tell people that's what you do. And then they'll remember you for it. And then it's like, yeah Oh, if I need, to if I need this thing, I call Joe and blah, blah, blah. Um, and I remember trying to do that, um, for a while. and but i I really struggled because i love the variety.
Navigating Multi-Disciplinary Creative Careers
00:22:44
Speaker
you know i love editing, I love animating, I love producing and directing and writing. and all these different things even started doing a bit of coding in the last year wow fantastic love to learn new things and and also i just want to make sure I'm staying relevant and and you know in case this industry completely crashes but you know but ah what's your been what's been your experience with that and like you know doing a bunch of different things and like how you know
00:23:19
Speaker
Do you find it difficult to market yourself? like Or do you find it a benefit? I find it a bit of both. It's so difficult. I really struggled with it after uni because like I did not want to commit to one thing.
00:23:33
Speaker
I wanted the variety and I... Like i found it so fun that like something could come up and you would rise to the challenge and you would learn a new skill along the way. And like you had all these plates spinning. And I honestly at that point saw it as an advantage. I was like, why would you hire an editor when you can hire 15 different members of staff, but they're all one person and I'll just spin all the plates.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah. and But you're right. People, they don't know what to do with you if you have all those skills. And there's also this perception that you can't be good at all of them.
00:24:07
Speaker
So you must kind of half-arse them all. And if you go for a person that just does one thing, then there'll be a specialist. And I understand where that comes from. I do. and I also feel that in a project, like you do want to try and delegate as much as possible to different people so that you're not overwhelming anyone.
00:24:27
Speaker
But it's like so many creative people that I know are able to turn their hand to quite a few different disciplines and do them really well. And it is tough. and I mean, I ah still now have like five or six different CDs so that depending on what I'm going for, that's the one I'll send them and that's the experience I'll talk about and how I frame it. And and when I speak to people about what I do now, tell them my background is in post-production and I've been writing and directing for the last few while.
00:25:01
Speaker
But the truth is that I am editing all the time. full-time basically that's my day job but I animate whenever I can because that's a passion of mine that I have made a living off of but there's not enough work for it to be sustainable so that kind of comes around every now and then i write and direct my own projects and I'll get involved in writing and directing other stuff if I can I've been producing um I yeah I'm just and I shoot as well like i I would say that's the one that I'm not making a CV for like I don't have dreams of becoming a cinematographer but I can pick up like a pro camera not the highest end but maybe like a prosumer and go and I've shot for broadcast before and like it
00:25:52
Speaker
You know, it's really, really difficult to kind of put all of that down on paper and get someone to buy into.
The Freelance Creative Lifestyle
00:25:59
Speaker
oh great. You're great at all of it. but Yeah. Yeah. Get them to take you actually seriously as being able to do all this stuff. Yeah.
00:26:06
Speaker
A hundred percent. And it's really hard also, I think, along that journey for to find your passion and and make that choice. Did you ever like have a moment where you were like, OK, this is the thing?
00:26:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah. A few times a year.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yeah, totally. But you know what? I'm just kind of learning to steer into this kid. I'm just like, you know what? I am not the type of person that, you know, grows up, you know, wanting to do one thing and one thing only and then does that for the rest of their life.
00:26:42
Speaker
I'll probably change my mind a bunch more times throughout my life. And yeah, I think it's just who I am. And yeah i just need to be okay with that. Do know, and it's, I get that too.
00:26:55
Speaker
I have never seen myself like staying in one place forever. and I've always seen myself moving between disciplines and roles and jobs and types of project as well. Yeah.
00:27:10
Speaker
So in that sense, like the freelance lifestyle of like film and TV is perfect for people like us. ah Also, the freelance lifestyle is so detrimental to your bank balance and your mental health. So you kind of got to like figure out like which one do you sacrifice, you know, at least that's how I felt.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, how do you balance that? Like the kind of tension between doing what you love and doing what pays? like so for the longest time now I have worked on stuff that is about paying the bills but I've always felt really grateful that at least I am still working within the skill set that I have trained in and the area you know like that the kind of hard creative skills that I've always wanted to use and I really do love post-production like there's something about the edit that I just feel tranquil in and I know other people go oh my god I cannot stand watching the same clip 15 times in a row and I'm like play it again and yeah are people are amazed that I'm just like spending hours and just looking at premiere and after effects and then and I forget to eat and they're just like what's wrong with you
00:28:28
Speaker
Oh, 100%. You get into the flow and the zone in and you just like nothing else in the world is happening. You're just in it. And I really like that. my name so even though a lot of what I work on isn't necessarily what people perceive as creative, it is still using like the skills that I want to use. It's still getting into that zone.
00:28:53
Speaker
I feel really grateful that I get to do that. And also there's still some creativity within it. You still have to problem solve and you still get footage that you you're like, hmm, how do we make this work?
00:29:04
Speaker
Okay, that's not quite cutting together, but maybe if I do this. And so the process can still be like quite exciting. And I've always, i think there was maybe like two months later and at the beginning of 2024, where I didn't have a creative project on the go.
00:29:21
Speaker
And that's like probably the only time in my life that I didn't have some other thing happening, like over and above my day job. I fill all of my free time with creative stuff, whether that is working on another short film, making YouTube videos.
00:29:37
Speaker
and It could just be like painting or something like at home that I'm just like, this isn't even for like my career or to put out into the world. I just always have something that kind of keeps me going in a hobby sense. So I'm never going feel like I've...
00:29:54
Speaker
dropped the ball and I don't like don't hope you know I don't want people to listen to this and think like oh if you're going to your day job and coming home and not spending every waking hour doing and something creative like you've dropped a ball it's just um that really helps me channel all that energy um so it's not for everyone know a lot like you need your downtime as well but i do just like to have something else and that i'm kind of chipping away at in the background it's it's really really good for me to have that kind of project as well that's nice so just uh creating for creativity's sake kind of thing in your spare time
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Nice. yeah i Yeah. I think I and don't do as much of that so as I would like. um i I think I found a struggle from when filmmaking stopped being just a hobby and became something that paid the bills.
00:30:55
Speaker
It became less fun to do it on the weekends. I mean, it it took a while. Like, ah there was a long time where I was doing it during the week and for for money and then doing at the weekends for for fun.
00:31:07
Speaker
um But I find that the last few years I've done a lot less of that. I think ah it lost the magic a little bit. I totally understand that because there have been days where I have shut one computer and said goodbye to Premiere and then opened up another one and looked at a new Premiere project and thought, this is my whole life. Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes it's good to actually get away from a screen and outside in nature sometimes. That is another element of it. Absolutely. i should build in a lot more to try and get away from screens because it is our whole life. There's just so much of it.
00:31:50
Speaker
Yeah, I know. It's really hard to to find stuff to do that doesn't involve just staring at a screen. and That's why, i mean, a big hobby of mine recently has been playing board games with friends.
00:32:06
Speaker
Oh, wonderful. Yeah, i just I just love it. And it's it's good it's good to get away from a computer. Still sitting on my arse, of course, but you know at least I'm not looking at a screen the whole time. But it's nice to like sit around together and do it too.
00:32:20
Speaker
and yeah And it's also kind of like a way that you can spend time with people without having to go out for dinner or go for a drink or something like that. Like, which is becoming more and more rare. Yeah.
Importance of Community and Collaboration
00:32:30
Speaker
I wish I lived closer to my friends and so that I could see them more frequently. I'd have board game nights all the time, sadly. Yeah.
00:32:39
Speaker
all of the work in Scotland for creative people is in the central belt and my family and friends are far out from that so there's that little bit of alienation as well and like it would be nice it would be nice to kind of be closer to the people but then i have found community in the creative space as well and ah do when I go along to stuff there's loads of friendly faces that I'm happy to see so yeah it's another part of that lifestyle you know like you kind of got two worlds in a way absolutely yeah do you think the community um is important for creative survival like or do you think we kind of over romanticize it sometimes oh that's a great question
00:33:26
Speaker
and I think that specifically to me and the journey I've been on, I, when I was younger, really didn't appreciate community at all.
00:33:39
Speaker
And I thought that I had to forge my own way all by myself. And that one day it would be like, ta-da, I've made it. And everybody who ah doesn't know me will suddenly be stunned and go, God, who's she? I need to know her.
00:33:54
Speaker
And it doesn't work. Like, it's just not possible. mean, to the extent that I made a film entirely by myself at one point, m I wrote it, set out with a camera, filmed myself walking about Scotland, built in this narrative with no dialogue so i didn't have to speak to anybody. and It was just this, like, hyper-independent,
00:34:16
Speaker
a mentality that I had after uni. And I think part of it was that like a lot of people I went to uni with either like found their way in film like way far from home or were still around but had gone on to completely other industries. And so I felt like I'd lost the connections that I had that would help me make films. And I thought, well, I'll just do it by myself.
00:34:43
Speaker
And yeah, it just didn't really get me anywhere. i mean, the film like came out and people were like, oh, well done, that's great. But it doesn't benefit you. And so know after a while, am I kind of went on other experiences where I...
00:34:58
Speaker
was like working with groups, working in like a went on some residencies where they like get filmmakers together from all over the world and you make films together. And that was where it suddenly dawned on me that like I need people, absolutely need people.
00:35:17
Speaker
Not only do you like the collaboration makes your work stronger, but like what people their experiences that they can bring to it are things that you just wouldn't learn if you were completely on your own and then yeah in the last year or so i mean when I went freelance and was doing and animation and editing full-time just working on different projects whatever came along my way and i started to kind of get that like presence that I was talking about in that community where i would go along to things and I would recognize people I'd worked with and
00:35:53
Speaker
and You know, you'd see the same faces at different networking events and you would see like someone's film in a festival and then a year later see something else they'd made and you began to get this bigger picture of what was happening in Scotland.
00:36:05
Speaker
And it genuinely felt so nice to be part of that. I didn't want to be this island anymore. I felt like I wanted people to be like, what's Ashley up to? like and And what's happening with Sonora?
00:36:18
Speaker
And like to be a part of the world rather than to kind of like keep secluded. And I do think it's important. I think that's how so much happens for you and as an individual.
00:36:33
Speaker
Your opportunities are there because other people are willing to give them to you. So you've got to be a team player, 100%. hundred percent Yeah, absolutely. i'm Team player is listed on everybody's CV, but it doesn't it doesn't always ah yeah reflect reality.
00:36:51
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think part of it is not just going, yeah, I show up and I, I'm a crew member and you know, like I do the job with other people. It's like actively making choices that benefit others as well. yeah Like putting the ladder down behind you and saying, here's how I got up here. Like, come on up to, it's like, you know, sharing the knowledge and sharing opportunities with each other, a seeing,
00:37:20
Speaker
someone you know succeeding as a win for yourself as well and a win for everybody it's kind of that whole like the rising tide lifts all boats kind of thing like you've really got to understand that like as a community you're in it together and um like everybody's strength can be celebrated by everybody and it's not just about like getting ahead and using people to sort of further yourself either I think where we need to kind of branch out next is like maybe the public image of creative people and getting people outside the industry to buy into it as well.
00:38:00
Speaker
What I would love is for ah Scottish film to come out in cinemas and everyone in Scotland be like, yes, I can't fucking wait to see this. Like I am am'm there on the opening weekend just because it's a Scottish film.
00:38:13
Speaker
you know, just because you're so excited to see your own people. And I would love to nurture that kind of air community as well. and yeah So that we then have this like,
00:38:26
Speaker
We are basically operating in a space where and we can be self-sustainable. We can like make stuff a for each other, go along and support it and have this like growth within the industry. and Whereas I feel like at the moment, sometimes you know a Scottish film comes out, nobody knows.
00:38:48
Speaker
ah yeah you have no idea that that it's same that it's being released or like that it is indeed Scottish or and where you can find it and stuff like that it's still really really really tough and really hard and I feel like if we can just spread out a little bit from like the immediate community who already know who's working on what and get in everybody else to go oh yeah that would be great I'd love to go and see a Scottish film on Friday night and then we'll grow a wee bit bigger Yeah, that would be really good.
00:39:18
Speaker
um you've You've got a really good point. like I can't remember the last time like a Scottish film came out and everybody was like, yeah, let's go let's go see it. i mean, maybe Trainspotting 2.
00:39:30
Speaker
Yeah, which is quite a while ago. Yeah. Anna and the Apocalypse, um that was one that I absolutely loved and tried to watch it most Christmases.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah. um But yeah, a although that was mostly filmed in England anyway, so it was like... Oh, was it? Oh my God, I didn't know that. I hope I'm not making that up. i think I think I'm right there.
00:39:55
Speaker
This so fascinating because I ask people what their favourite Scottish film is and it takes people quite a while because... they're like, well, is that a Scottish film?
00:40:06
Speaker
yeah It was a Scottish director, but it was all shot abroad. And there's only one Scottish actor of an ensemble cast of 50. And you're like, we'll count it. that It'll be fine.
00:40:18
Speaker
I probably can't name that many, to be honest. Yeah. Do you have a favourite Scottish film? Honestly, I think Anna and then the Apocalypse is up there for sure. That's I just really like it. Yeah.
00:40:32
Speaker
It's so much fun. It's got everything. it's got It's got horror. It's got comedy. It's got candy canes. I mean... It's got music. yes was sorry Yeah,
00:40:47
Speaker
yeah that's a great one. I thought for for a long time, actually, I i didn't really dig musicals. um But um it's been pointing pointed out to me that that I actually do care for quite a few musicals.
00:41:00
Speaker
um just a mostly not the not the traditional ones so i like the ones that have got a bit of bite you know like Anna and the Apocalypse or Sweeney Todd or something like that something a bit darker yeah something unconventional yeah it's like the contrast between the happy music and the the dark world that it's set in I don't know I just dig that a lot amazing what about you can you think of ah of a favourite Scottish film So I have few, suppose.
Supporting Scottish Cinema and Cultural Engagement
00:41:33
Speaker
For the longest time, I said that my favorite Scottish film was After Sun, and I still love it to pieces. But that's one of those films I'm talking about where it was mostly, it was shot in Turkey.
00:41:46
Speaker
And it's a Scottish director and it's her story, but she has not lived in Scotland for quite some time now. It was and a sort of American co-production and Paul Mescal, the main star, obviously from Ireland.
00:42:02
Speaker
So you begin to see why it's like so hard to define something as like a Scottish film. And I still really love it and it makes me cry every time I watch it. But I also really love the film Beats. Have you ever seen it?
00:42:14
Speaker
Beats? don't think so. I actually haven't seen After Sun either. i need to... Okay, pop them both on your list, right? If you're ready for a good cry, then After Sun.
00:42:25
Speaker
If you are ready to bounce off the fucking walls, watch Beats. Okay. Okay.
00:42:34
Speaker
Cool, thanks the recommendations. All right. Okay. It's brilliant. And it when it came out, it sort of, a like, kind of had a kind of little splash.
00:42:45
Speaker
I think I saw it at the Edinburgh Film Festival. And then it sort of went away. And I feel like slowly people have started to find it in places and then be blown away by how fun it is as a film.
00:42:59
Speaker
And a it stars Lorne MacDonald as one of the ah two main characters. And now that he's had more presence in TV shows and film, I think people are going back and finding it that way too. And I'm so happy because like, if you've never seen Beats before, I'm a wee bit jealous because it's like so fun to watch the first time.
00:43:21
Speaker
if It's fun to watch any time, but you know, you get that euphoria at first. so I highly recommend it yeah I've been jealous of people getting to watch like films and TV shows that I like for the first time I know you're feeling for them yeah but then you end up building up too much and it's like oh crap it's only okay I'm so sorry if I've hyped beats beyond enjoyability anymore I'm sure I haven't though it's honestly that good fair enough Cool. Well, I've made notes.
00:43:53
Speaker
So we both would like to see, you know, a lot more support for the creative industries in general, um especially in Scotland. What do you think we could actually do to help, like, as a community or as individuals?
00:44:07
Speaker
Ooh. That is a really good question. It takes a wee while for culture to like really shift, but it can with persistence. And I feel like if there was a focus for us to create a film and TV here,
00:44:25
Speaker
and that people in Scotland were buzzed about, like so excited to see. Think about how worshipped things like Still Game are.
00:44:36
Speaker
Like people quote that even though it hasn't they haven't made new episodes yet. in what, like eight years or something like that? Yeah. I can't remember when the finale was. so But like, it it was on air for a really long time and some of the stuff that people like reminisce about is a good 20, 25 years old.
00:44:56
Speaker
It's like, The impact that that had on Scottish culture, the way that, like, the the language that came out of it and how people talk to each other and things like Trainspotting as well made a huge splash when it came out, changed culture for such in such a big way here.
00:45:12
Speaker
ah feel like if we made more that we could actually, like, really enjoy and take a lot from on a personal level, we would begin to build a sort of tapestry and of lots of different things that people could and really get excited about and get excited to see what's next.
00:45:32
Speaker
That, for me, would be the direction to go in in order to shift the culture to we'll just consume whatever Netflix throws in front of us to I want to see what's coming out from the same team that made this.
00:45:48
Speaker
and yeah people that I recognize from that, you know? Like, I was casting for a short film earlier this year, and it was so difficult to think young Scottish stars that I would like to be in it.
00:46:04
Speaker
Because when you're putting together, like, frameworks for films, you'll say, this is the kind of actor that we want. and yeah i was like, who the fuck's working in Scotland? Yeah.
00:46:16
Speaker
you know? I was like, is there any young female actresses? Is there anyone under 30? And it was so, so difficult. There was honestly like yeah a so very small That head scratcher.
00:46:31
Speaker
It is. And that's what I mean. Like we need to focus on like kind of building that little kind of culture for ourselves where people were excited to see on screen.
00:46:41
Speaker
but get People were excited to see art coming from and We trust, and you know, like the folk that made Still Game have gone on to make this or the folk that made Burniston are doing this now.
00:46:53
Speaker
Like that's, I think, the kind of direction that could help us create a bit of buzz about our own identity and our own humour and our own...
Impact of AI on the Creative Industry
00:47:02
Speaker
way of life and want to see it on screen and as a mass people not just creatives but everybody would just get behind it and go yeah we're going to cinema because we're going to see this film and we're going we're going to watch whatever this is because it's that not just because it's whatever's on tv Yeah.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah. I like that. It's not a simple answer. but Yeah. It does take a while for things to like really sink in and like change mass behavior.
00:47:32
Speaker
But I say that, I mean, like Netflix only came around like 15 years ago, maybe. Like the kind of proper... online platform side of it i know they did like dvds in the post for a while but um like that changed dramatically like that's true i mean if you think about like the sort of stuff that's that's occurred during our lifetimes like it's it's wild to to think about how rapidly technology has advanced for one um i mean it's only been
00:48:06
Speaker
a couple of years since like chat GPT's been around and it's transforming everything. Yeah. um In a very scary way.
00:48:19
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. and i mean, you know, even when I started college when I was 16, they taught us how to shoot onto DV tapes. The time I graduated, they were out and you couldn't even buy cameras that were recording onto them anymore. We'd moved into the DSLR era and then that only lasted five years and then we moved on to something else.
00:48:40
Speaker
And you're just like... I can't even learn how to use this fast enough. And it's the same now. Like things keep progressing really quickly. And then, you know, you learn how to edit one way. And then all of a sudden, everything's in a completely different a system and format. Even YouTube.
00:48:56
Speaker
It used to be that you had to like... change your shot every six seconds otherwise it was too boring for audiences to watch and the algorithm would just can it and now it's like actually people appreciate unedited like one hour chats where the person doesn't cut at all you're just like oh my god i have whiplash from all the change yeah and you're right like the kind of AI thing is pretty daunting and and moving really fast as well I put ah i put a video out about AI Yeah, I saw that. And I was quite scathing because it began to basically appear in the editing world and a project that I worked on
00:49:39
Speaker
a have replaced me with an AI service that chops your content up into it reels for you. m And I know that they did it to save money.
00:49:51
Speaker
I know that. Of course. And like fit it like on one level, right, I get that. But another level, like I still need to somehow make a living. And so I feel like it shouldn't really be so easy for people to just go, ah we won't pay you a wage anymore. but We're just going to get this machine to do the job for us. Someone told me that the correct term for it is automation, although I suggested call it dehumanization. But OK, yeah.
00:50:18
Speaker
i I like dehumanization. And and i actually am I actually used it earlier on the back of your watching your video. No way. I've started a trend.
00:50:29
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just like, yeah, dehumanizing um people as in favor of AI. It's scary. Yeah. am And yeah, so actually someone commented on one of my videos saying if your job could be done by a prompt, then it was never a real job.
00:50:47
Speaker
Well, that's bullshit. But am I was like, but the thing is, my job couldn't be done with just a prompt. Actually, it took a long time of me actually doing it for them to learn what they wanted, feed that into a machine and have it steal my technique and, and, and like, you know, teach it.
00:51:09
Speaker
Yeah. So you were unwittingly training AI to replace you. I mean, i never actively sent any of the stuff that I did to AI.
00:51:20
Speaker
But it learns based on what has been successful before. and you do put in an already edited piece of media for it to select parts and re-edit it into something else.
00:51:36
Speaker
And you put in the style that you want and a like you can put and eu in your own style. ah social media so that it can take a look at what's out there now like what kind of like topics and things you you work with so it does have to learn from something and it's definitely not been a case of like edit this and then it spat out exactly what I could do and I made the argument that like when I was editing stuff a on that particular project that I would take more care
00:52:09
Speaker
and select more thoroughly exactly what we were putting out. and I didn't really like the style that it came out with and I just felt like it was kind of a hyper edit. So way more on screen all at the same time.
00:52:25
Speaker
And I was like, I wouldn't overwhelm ah viewer with all of this. like And also I wouldn't put the captions in front of the person's face. Like now you can't see them. right you know Just wee adjustments like that that would make it far more user friendly.
00:52:39
Speaker
But in someone did get in touch with me, someone I went to uni with, my pal Stuart, if you're listening, hello. m He was like, but he was really reassuring. Like it was honestly like took me from,
00:52:53
Speaker
ah too Okay then. and Because he was like, I have seen so many articles of people moving away from AI now. and he sent me loads of stuff that was like, companies are beginning to realize that the output of AI is way lower quality than the output that their human staff could do They've ended up with more complaints or they haven't had any increase in sales or even lower sales because of the use of AI. There's also...
00:53:23
Speaker
probably more like people and groups of people who object to ai and firmly like push back against it than there are people in who are like i'll only use a product if it has ai you know so yeah that's yeah there's obviously there's a very big middle space but there are lots of people who are like I'm not using your product because you have AI.
00:53:47
Speaker
So that group are probably putting a bit more pressure on than we realize. a And, ah you know, your CEOs and and your a business leaders are all kind of going like,
00:53:59
Speaker
okay, we've invested loads in this AI and we're not seeing any return from that. and But if we have humans, we can actually make progress and we can actually make growth. So that was quite encouraging. That is interesting. He sent me like quite a few articles m of like different places that were in turning things around, going back on their AI decisions and stuff like that. So yeah, that made me feel a lot better.
00:54:27
Speaker
That's really cool. i like I like that. I like the sound of that. I'm going to need to um ah do a bit of research into that myself. because I can send you the links and we can put them in the show notes. It genuinely made my day so much better.
00:54:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So it sounds like um protesting these kind of things does have its place um in the current climate. Like, I mean, people keep saying like, oh, you just need to, you know, like it or lump it sort of thing. You need to get on board or are you going to be left behind? But I mean, it sounds like there could be a place for for saying, actually, no, this isn't cool.
00:55:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's not that I believe that all AI is bad and doesn't have a place in the world. It's just that I find the act of replacing an actual human who was paid to do a job with automated isn't a good choice from a human point of view. Like, you know, that we all have to make a living and to deprive people of the ability to do that, I think is really criminal.
00:55:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Um, I was reminded, um, earlier today of, um, a quote from Jurassic Park. I'm going to botch it. I'm going to paraphrase. But it's so it was something about the scientists were so busy um ah trying to to advance things and that they they never stopped to ask, should we?
00:55:52
Speaker
Yes, it's, I think, like I'm probably going botch it as well, but it's like, we were so preoccupied of whether we could, we never stopped to think, should we?
00:56:03
Speaker
If we should. we should. Yeah, something like that. God. Well, you can find the real clip and slot it in.
00:56:11
Speaker
yeah and i'll just be like there'll be people listening to this just like tearing their hair out going like oh my god i can't believe how wrong you guys are but that's the gist yeah totally yeah and i just think it's really irrelevant like i mean that was 93 that came out i believe yeah um and it's 22 years later and um you know we've still not learned our lesson we're still creating the dinosaurs and we're not um we're not making strong enough cages yeah Absolutely, absolutely. am And yeah, i'm I'm kind of, yeah, feeling a wee bit more hopeful that um from what I'd seen in the last 24 hours in the news, that like there is a shift away from AI. So I'm at least feeling like maybe we've realized that um it's not all it's cracked up to be. It's not changing the world for the better. It's actually making
Freelancing Challenges During and Post-Pandemic
00:57:01
Speaker
things worse. So like, let's not fan the flames anymore. Yeah.
00:57:06
Speaker
Yeah, fingers crossed. So I was just wanting to ask, aside from AI, what do you think um has is causing like issues in the current climate of the the creative industries?
00:57:20
Speaker
think that... to be honest, the the whole industry had never really been sustainable and it took the pandemic for it all to sort of start crashing down. and The immediate aftermath of the pandemic was that there was loads of opportunity and there was like so much work And then it meant that like, I mean, I benefited from this hugely. and I was turning jobs down and I got so many opportunities I'd never had before.
00:57:47
Speaker
and so I'm not saying that like, all these youngsters came into the industry and now there's too many around like that. It's not that way. It's the actually relying on freelancers as heavily as the creative industries does means that you have but something like 80% of the industry is freelance.
00:58:07
Speaker
Like none of those people have stability at all. And, a lot of people have got to a place in their life where they have dependents, where their income is keeping the entire family afloat.
00:58:21
Speaker
And like the skill that they have, that they've been working on for the last like 30 or 40 years, um, is now like in jeopardy and people are, because budgets are so much smaller,
00:58:36
Speaker
like multitasking, like we say. And that's where sometimes, you know, being that like polymath creative can be a benefit because you're like, I can edit, but don't worry, I can also be the researcher on this project and I can also shoot. So I'll just go along to the set as well and blah, blah, blah.
00:58:54
Speaker
But it's like, it's not... great because you know then all of the like really like experienced talent is not getting the opportunity to do the job that they are trained to do really well and so without having consistent work they're having to completely step away from the industry and then it yeah it there's just so so many levels to it where had never really been set up properly in the first place And, um, it's tough because you're kind of like, how do you set something up?
00:59:29
Speaker
Um, that's far more structured and stable because, ah God, I feel like, I feel like Theresa May strong and stable. Oh no.
00:59:40
Speaker
Oh yeah. This is not where I wanted to go, but it's true, you know, so we need to figure out how we make it more stable so that, um, Yeah, we we we need to be able to a create a like media because I always bang on about this, but like 90% of people come home at night and they want to watch TV.
01:00:05
Speaker
They want to look at their phone. They want to maybe watch a film or they're going to listen to music. And like so much of what we enjoy and value and unwind to and just like fill our free time with because it makes us happy is media.
01:00:21
Speaker
And it just feels like the people that create that are completely forgotten. Like nobody gives a shit whether they sink or swim. And at the moment we're all sinking and we're crying for help and everyone's going, whatever.
01:00:34
Speaker
You've had it great for a long time. Why would we care? And it's like, no, we haven't had it great. Actually, Like a lot of us don't make a lot of money. a lot of us have made massive sacrifices in life in order to just have scraping of a career.
01:00:49
Speaker
And now there isn't enough to keep us around and we're all basically having to leave and do something else. And you're going to be left with nothing but slop if it continues to go on a tangent where nobody's paid to do their work anymore and we just feed things into AI or we do it as cheap as possible and we just don't make anything of quality.
01:01:11
Speaker
And so it just feels like, m yeah, that sort of like old legacy of and there are very few actual full-time positions and everybody's a freelancer has now got to a point where it's toppled.
01:01:27
Speaker
But again, like I say, I don't really know like off the top of my head, how you could turn that around. Because when you make a TV show or a film, that job is only available for a certain period of time. You work on it forever.
01:01:41
Speaker
You work on it until it's completed and then it goes out. So how do you like create an industry that's not so reliant on freelancing when everything you do comes to an end? It's all project-based.
01:01:53
Speaker
It's really tough. It is. It is. I mean, even like you know in the corporate world where I... used i make most of my living um yeah it's generally project by project you need to make this video for this client and then it's like here this is like you know a couple of weeks work or or something like that and then it's done and move on to the next thing like you know yeah they wouldn't be able to afford to to have me work all month and like then you know twiddle my thumbs for half of it
01:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, and maybe we have to accept that it's always going to be a freelancer heavy space. How do we make that more sustainable? How do we work with it? and And I personally don't have the answers.
01:02:40
Speaker
No, I don't either. hope there's a way to figure it Yeah. and I read something recently that described people like us as part of the precariat class.
01:02:53
Speaker
only this This whole above working class but below middle class, like kind of that precarious nature of like freelancing, like earning you know decent money when you are working, but you're you know underemployed and not quite you know making enough in a very precarious nature and you know your whole life could just fall away at any moment really. Yeah.
01:03:16
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. I mean, that does perfectly describe it. Oh, that's awful. But yeah, well I'd never really thought of it that way. Yeah. It's lovely that there's a name for it.
01:03:30
Speaker
I've not summed it up in a very positive way, but I guess it's not very positive. It's not. It's not a very positive place to be at all. No. Sometimes I have like real down days where i just despair and I completely understand why people leave.
01:03:47
Speaker
Like it can really take a toll. And if you have big responsibilities, you just you just cannot deal with gambling them all the time. um but then other days I have like such a vehement hope and I go along to something and I'm inspired and I'm like yes we can do this things are turning around so it that that's part of it as well you just ride the ups and downs what sort of things do give you hope like not like necessarily in a soft fuzzy way but like in a I'm not done yet kind way
01:04:20
Speaker
and i mean, when I put the boulder out, it had a huge reaction. i mean, people really related to it. And like that was encouraging, not because I thought, great, now I'm going to like springboard into the next project and keep going up.
01:04:37
Speaker
But just because at least I felt seen and heard and at least I didn't feel alone. and and the struggle and pretty much every person that I've shown to shown the boulder to has understood it on a deep level like there's no sort of eye rolls or m whatever like just moaning about the industry again like it genuinely I think probably resonates with everyone from the bottom to the top um and so at the very least I felt like okay well if everybody feels it then um we're kind of in it together and I like to believe that um there is this awareness of of what's happening um across the board I know the question was what gives me hope
01:05:26
Speaker
I guess there are some institutions and projects that are trying to take a step forwards and I'm actually quite like positive about Screen Scotland a on my channel and publicly.
01:05:37
Speaker
m i can't say that they're going to like completely revolutionize the industry and that they're going to give everyone money and
Support and Growth in the Scottish Film Industry
01:05:46
Speaker
save the day. Like, I don't know that, but be nice they are trying And they are working within the parameters that they have. And from my understanding and having made a few projects that have been funded by Screen Scotland, it's a difficult one.
01:06:02
Speaker
There's so many strings attached. And when you make something with government funding, as you can imagine, it has to be like completely in the public interest that this exists.
01:06:13
Speaker
And so you've got a lot of people to please when you make something like that. And so... I think that they're doing what they can with like what they've been given and the the ways in which they have to work. I think some of their ideas are really strong and hopefully are going to lead to to bigger and better things.
01:06:29
Speaker
I cannot wait for the studio in Sterling to finally start making some stuff. That'll be really interesting to see how it develops. And i do it's supposed to create like 1500 jobs or something like that. So that would be wonderful.
01:06:46
Speaker
and There's the company, think they're called Halon, who are opening their animation studio in Glasgow. So they're like quite big company from the US, I think. ah the u like okay um i believe it's still going ahead despite the tariff chat from trump oh not get into that i know but that's not gonna happen it's not gonna happen
01:07:15
Speaker
it's not even a cut your nose off despite your face it's a cut your head off yeah your body scenario it's
01:07:24
Speaker
It's so ridiculous. Oh my God. I can't even can't even begin to... and So yeah, I think like that animation studio coming to town is going to be really good for Scotland. There's been more and more international productions come over and use Scotland. There's two at the moment that I know of that are shooting in Glasgow and Edinburgh.
01:07:41
Speaker
yeah And the way I've felt about these before are that a they tend to come and bring their own people and we don't really get a look you know? and But I feel that...
01:07:53
Speaker
we are shifting to allow people to come and film they take on Scottish crew as well. I've seen that in a couple of circumstances.
01:08:05
Speaker
I can't speak firsthand. I certainly haven't been asked to go along and shoot anything or edit anything. But and it feels like and from what I hear in the community that there's some things happening in that space that are actually benefiting people that work in Scotland.
01:08:22
Speaker
am and allowing people to train up on productions at a scale that we've never worked on ourselves. and So that's quite promising and hopeful. am I also, like, there's so much, like, passion and enthusiasm out there from people and kind of determination and drive to make this all happen.
01:08:42
Speaker
There's, like, hundreds of people like me who are just, like, determined and, also want to contribute something back. So like you starting this podcast a couple of weeks ago, I worked with a couple who are doing like the Criterion Closet, but in charity shops. yeah and There's Jamie and his podcast, Just Get Real
Creative Adaptability and Transferable Skills
01:09:04
Speaker
Job. And there's all these little projects that have sprung up in order to like share information, talk, promote what's going on.
01:09:12
Speaker
and build community and so that feels like the kind of first steps of us coming together and then the next steps are going to be being able to take on like responsibility and and put pressure on people and like build the kind of world and system that we would like to have and as we kind of gain power in numbers and we become more influential and ah able to speak up so that gives me hope.
01:09:38
Speaker
Nice, we'll all come together and take down the man. Yeah.
01:09:45
Speaker
So if somebody um was listening right now and they're like on the verge of giving up their creative dream, do you have anything that you would want them to hear?
01:09:56
Speaker
It's very nuanced and the reasons why people... decide to walk away from the industry are deeply personal and yeah so I would want them to hear that there's absolutely no shame in stepping away from it if you want to there's no shame in finding another industry or if you know like you you just need to take a break from everything as well um and like take that time off if you are able to like do it because you are the only person who knows like where your limit is and and how much you can handle and where your mind's at and I have days where I wake up and I'm just like I can't do this anymore and then the next day I'll be like let's go it is really really tough I even like for a small period of time was kind of feeling a bit bad like
01:10:46
Speaker
I do some training and coaching. And I was like, should I be telling young people to like get into this industry? Is that unethical? You know, like I do have those like concerns sometimes.
01:10:58
Speaker
Yeah, get that. But i would I would want people to hear that like, you know, the the the way that your life unfolds is entirely within your own hands. And so if you're faced with feeling like you're forced ah out of an industry or into a decision that you never ever wanted to have to make, like find how you can harness like that situation and like take the reins again, whether it is stepping in into a new industry and going, all right, well, what skills have I got and where am I taking them? How am I spinning this into a new creative way?
01:11:34
Speaker
It might not be where I've been before. It might not be as sexy and cool as TV and film, but like you can still be like, super passionate and creative in other fields and like take yourself there and find something that you really value and hold dear. And I know lots of people that have done that.
01:11:52
Speaker
There's lots of articles out there as well of people who were kind of like, never thought I would enjoy this. Here I am, like having a great time. and And it doesn't have to be permanent.
01:12:03
Speaker
You could do it for a year and see how things go. and Or maybe you'll find something that actually really ignites something within you. There's always your spare time if you want to keep doing creative projects.
01:12:14
Speaker
And most people will welcome you back with open arms if you ever want to come back into it again. So yeah, it's a tough choice. i don't wish it upon anyone, but make the choice with gusto.
01:12:30
Speaker
You know, that's actually um that's actually why I started getting into and coding. I was like thinking about retraining because I just not had any work for months and um it was it was getting really hard. And I was like, and I need some kind of backup plan here. And and I started to doing some studying and and software development. um And i I didn't really think I'd be that into it. And then i i started I started learning Python and I was like,
01:12:55
Speaker
this is so cool. Yeah. And I got my nerd on. i yeah I started really getting into it. and um But then ah and then a few months later, um my freelance work started really picking up again.
01:13:08
Speaker
oh yeah Best of both worlds. So, yeah. So um that's been that's been going a lot better again, um thankfully. and But i'm still I'm still doing the software stuff in my spare time because I'm enjoying it.
01:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great backup plan. And I imagine there'll be a lot of crossover with what you're already doing in the editing space. So it means that you're kind of keeping one foot in the door, like you're keeping your skills sharp and yeah you never know, like maybe there's a space and there's a ah version of you where you're doing a little bit of both at the same time. And that's a really good strategy.
01:13:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I'm definitely getting a lot better expressions and after effects and, um, I even created a little script for myself to use in After Effects. Oh, brilliant. Which is quite exciting. That's so cool. To use After Effects yourself.
01:13:58
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And then that's another thing that you can like put on your CV. I always say to people who are like starting out, like if you don't have any experience at all in making anything, just write about how resourceful and useful you have been in other scenarios.
01:14:14
Speaker
There was a boy who once came into a job interview many moons ago and told us about how he cleaned up his room. And I just admired how like fun he approached the question of tell us about a time you managed a project.
01:14:31
Speaker
just like he was obviously too young to actually have ever managed anything but he kind of took the question and ran with it in a direction that i was just like i love that you thought about like the skills that we're actually asking you about and applied it to this everyday scenario so it was like yeah you know you can find a way to channel yeah the your energy and your skills really smart absolutely i hope he got hired did yeah next What makes you feel creatively alive right now?
Collaborative Process in Creative Projects
01:15:02
Speaker
Ooh, am definitely like in my creative stride when I am planning a project to come together.
01:15:16
Speaker
and So in recent years, started writing and directing. And in the moment where you bring in your group of people and then you have to start the pre-production to get your film made, that's where I feel like I've hit creative flow.
01:15:33
Speaker
and i I go to like car boot sales and buy props and like I do some storyboards and ah like talk to people about how we're going to shoot it. And all that stuff really makes me feel like,
01:15:46
Speaker
I am in my element, I'm in the zone. And then you shoot it and that's hella stressful. And then you edit it. And like, it's also stressful in a way, but and like, I like that part of it because you see all the hard work coming together.
01:15:58
Speaker
but I feel it most in that like lead up to the shoot. It's like the anticipation of it all. And just like bringing all the pieces of the jigsaw together, like really makes me feel a creatively alive.
01:16:11
Speaker
and And it's nice when... the idea starts as one thing and it starts to snowball and get bigger than you. ah like that part of the process as well. People come in and go, ah you know, it' be really fun for this. I know this technique or I know this, I've got this thing that we can add in. And you're just like, how did you like make this even better when it was just like a thing that I dreamt up one day? It's really lovely. I really, really love that part of the process. Yeah.
01:16:41
Speaker
It's so great when collaboration just elevates you, you know, where we're we can be great on our own, but we can be even better with others. I so believe that. Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:54
Speaker
That's awesome. I just really want to thank you for um for all your great insights. And um it's really great to to talk to to somebody. ah I mean, I feel like we have like a lot in common, very similar kind of background experience. um And um I find myself just agreeing with everything you say. is i don't think we would have much much to argue about. Wonderful. Yeah. And that's what mean, like so many people like, you know, are the community out there is mostly on the same page.
01:17:27
Speaker
and And it is lovely when you just meet people with similar experiences and you just kind of like collide and chat to all it. I think we need to hear more of it. We need to feel less alone.
01:17:40
Speaker
Definitely. It was really, really important. Well, thank you so much for for joining me and and and recording on Creativity Isn't Dead Yet. um I really, really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Huge thanks to Ash for such a fun and thoughtful conversation.
01:17:54
Speaker
And to you for tuning in to episode two. If it made you think, laugh or feel a little less alone in this messy creative world, please give us a follow on Instagram at creativityisn'tdeadyet and share it with somebody else who might like it too.
01:18:09
Speaker
More episodes coming soon, so stay tuned. Until then, keep creating.