Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
065 | Marriage Episode 10: On Friendships
322 Plays3 years ago
Making friends as a married couple can be hard. You don't always get along with your spouse's friends, you struggle to form community yourself, or you don't make time for meeting up with other couples. In this episode of the Honest Marriage series, Josh and Phy talk about making friends of the same sex, forming relationships with other couples, and how to cultivate friendships in marriage after kids.
Recommended
Transcript
Felicia's Postpartum Anxiety Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
Many of you know that my son Ivan was born towards the end of the year 2020. And so without question, all of us as a world were struggling with anxiety. And on top of that, I struggled with postpartum anxiety at the end of 2020.
00:00:16
Speaker
And during that time, I found the Abide app. As I was trying to fall asleep at night and struggling with intrusive thoughts and anxiety, the Abide app was actually the thing that I reached for. Guided meditation is completely based on scripture. Abide is the number one Christian meditation app.
00:00:34
Speaker
and abide users report less stress, lower levels of anxiety and depression and better sleep. For a limited time, our listeners will get 25% off a premium subscription when you visit abide.co slash Verity.
00:00:50
Speaker
Abide's meditations start at only two minutes long, so they're super easy to fit into your schedule. I used them at bedtime, but I also listened to them in the car and sometimes while I was cooking dinner or in between my work tasks. You can also use Abide's bedtime stories, which are all based on scripture, and they work for kids and adults alike.
00:01:10
Speaker
You can get started now with 25% off a premium subscription by downloading the Abide app at abide.co slash Verity. You'll get additional stories and meditations, premium music, soothing sounds, and more. Support the show and get 25% off by going to abide.co slash Verity. And that's A-B-I-D-E dot C-O slash Verity for your 25% off a premium subscription.
Introduction to Verity Podcast
00:01:37
Speaker
Welcome to Verity. I'm your host, Felicia Masonheimer, an author, speaker, and Bible teacher. This podcast will help you embrace the history and depth of the Christian faith, ask questions, seek answers, and devote yourself to becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ. You don't have to settle for watered-down Christian teaching. And if you're ready to go deeper, God is just as ready to take you there. This is Verity, where every woman is a theologian.
Friendship in Marriage Discussion
00:02:07
Speaker
Hey guys, welcome back to Verity Podcast. I'm Felicia Masonheimer. And I'm her husband, Josh. And we are in episode 10 of our Honest Marriage series. And in this episode, we're going to be talking about friendship and forming friendships both individually with friends of the same sex. So like female friends for me,
00:02:31
Speaker
male friends for Josh, and then also forming couple friendships. And so hopefully we can touch on a few practicals in this episode and why friendship is so important to a healthy Christian marriage. But as usual, we wanted to start with a passage, and today's passage is Ecclesiastes 4, 9 through 12. Josh, do you want to read a couple of these verses? Sure.
00:02:57
Speaker
So starting with nine, two are better than one because they have a good reward for their toil. For if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up. Again, if two lie together, they keep warm. But how can one keep warm alone? And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him. A three-fold cord is not quickly broken.
00:03:27
Speaker
So I think we often hear this one in wedding ceremonies. I mean, have you? Yeah, I've even seen like the braiding of the cord. And the threefold cord is that idea of, you know, the husband and the wife and the God being the cord. But this isn't specifically talking about marriage. We apply it to marriage, but it's not specifically talking about that. It's talking about
00:03:56
Speaker
friendship with another person. And so what I think is interesting here is that we often think of it in terms of marriage or think of it in terms of friendship, but we don't think of it in terms of friendship
00:04:10
Speaker
while you're married. Yeah, that's true. And that's kind of the application. I'd like to use it for today because I think our friendships that we cultivate can either support a healthy marriage or they can actually damage our marriage or draw us away from a healthy marriage. I mean, what do you think?
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like they're your peers. So if you surround yourself with good friends, then you're going to be going in a good direction and having accountability that brings you like toward God rather than if you have, you know, a negative crowd of peers, they are going to obviously bring you away from God and that will hurt your marriage just naturally.
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think Proverbs talks about how bad company corrupts.
00:05:08
Speaker
good morals or virtuous character. And that is so true regardless of what stage of life you're in. If you're single, it happens. If you're married, it happens. The people who are speaking into your life on a regular basis are shaping your character. And I think that's just something that we often forget because when we're married, sometimes we can get in the habit of falling into friendships that aren't best for us.
00:05:35
Speaker
we're like, at first you kind of maybe justify it as, you know, just kind of being a witness into their life. But, you know, how much time are you spending with them? And are they like your best friend? Yeah, where, you know, the iron isn't going to sharpen iron there, it's going to dull your blade.
00:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's Proverbs 17, 17 maybe that you just quoted. And when iron is sharpening iron, it's not a comfortable process oftentimes, right? You're taking steel off. Right. Yeah. You know more about that than me. He's the one who watches forged in fire. But you know, that's so true that it's not a comfortable process to have a friend in your life who will say,
00:06:23
Speaker
hey, you know that maybe the way you're talking about your spouse isn't wise, or maybe they don't even say something that direct, maybe they just are, you know, redirecting you back to the truth about your spouse or about your marriage, or even just having you reflect, like, you know, asking you, what are your priorities?
00:06:45
Speaker
When we were talking about this episode, I thought we'd talk first about individual friendships and the importance of those, and then talk about how to have couple friendships, and then maybe conclude with cultivating friendships after you have kids.
The Role of Accountability in Friendships
00:07:02
Speaker
Because I think a lot of people really struggle with that. So first, let's talk about cultivating individual friendships. So for you as a guy, and then for me as a woman, it looks different for each of us. And how that because men and women are different, and they connect differently.
00:07:20
Speaker
So you've said, and this has proven true scientifically, that men often connect by doing an activity together. Yeah. That's why so many like to bond over sports. But tendency is that you never go beyond talking stats and such. Right. So it can stay pretty shallow. Right. So for you, how have you cultivated deeper friendships or quality friendships that aren't surface level?
00:07:49
Speaker
I think that the initial small talk definitely helps you find where you relate with somebody, and that helps grow the interest of going deeper with them.
00:08:07
Speaker
You have to get to the point though where you actually do go deeper and aren't afraid to ask that question. And for me, I think I've mentioned in previous episodes that I'm in an accountability group with a few guys and it's just a very like close knit crowd. Then we see each other like at church and in our group meetings and
00:08:33
Speaker
at social activities throughout the week. So it is cultivating like a relationship with them beyond just the accountability. But that accountability expands outside of that group meeting because I'm seeing them hanging out with them. They're witnessing how much fruit or lack of fruit I'm actually bringing to the table.
00:08:58
Speaker
That's a super good point that it's not like you're meeting and then you're going about your life out of their context. They can actually see how you're living and either speak into that or congratulate that or whatever. They're in our house. You're in their house.
00:09:19
Speaker
So there's this element of, you know, just repeat exposure. Yeah. It may seem clicky, but for me, I found that I have to go deep with a few and then still have friendships with those outside of that group. But knowing that that crowd is one that I'm going to continue to cultivate a relationship with and be accountable to and hold accountable.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah. And something, this is just a general friendship rule, I would say, or community rule. We've learned having moved multiple times, having switched churches several times, I think because of moving mostly, it's that certain friendships are for a season. They're not forever. And certain friendships require that
00:10:16
Speaker
Well, I would say all friendships require that at least the parties make equal effort to engage with one another. If one person is constantly being the initiator and there's no reciprocation, that's just evidence that it's not important to that person. And it's probably time to seek
00:10:37
Speaker
friendship elsewhere. And you've done that where you tried to cultivate friendships with people you admired or you know were in our circles and it just didn't work and so you moved on to someone else. And our circles changed as well with the seasons of our life like you were saying. And you know sometimes like in that season that person is just what you needed to further refine or to pour into their life.
00:11:05
Speaker
And it's not wasted. No, it's
Maintaining Friendships Across Distances
00:11:08
Speaker
not. And there's definitely like growth to be had from it. But, you know, it can be just another chapter in a book, not to belittle the friendship, but, you know, once the season changes, like it was great while it lasted and now it's over.
00:11:25
Speaker
Yeah, and we found we live in a small town. Most of the towns here are about 30 minutes apart. I would say that's probably normal for most areas of the United States. And even in like a 30 minute distance,
00:11:40
Speaker
you're not going to see people who live that far apart super often. It's a different community. It's a different community. And so oftentimes you'll see some drift in friendships over the course of seasons, just by nature of physical distance, just by nature. And we have friends in other States when we've lived in Virginia and Pennsylvania that we see them once a year and we pick up where we left off for that time, but we can't be like,
00:12:07
Speaker
super, super close with them because of the distance. And so, you know, it's just being okay with the change in those personal friendships because of that. I've also developed a couple like online friendships, like people I've met in person, like through Fi's colleagues and such, and then, you know, a buddy from college. And I've kept those relationships alive just
00:12:37
Speaker
to kind of pour into their life and allow myself to continue to be poured into from, you know, these healthy people that, you know, I know. And Fi, you have a number of people that you stay in communication with online. When I think about my friendships, I have quite a few local friends.
00:13:01
Speaker
And some of those are couples, like he's friends with the husband, I'm friends with the wife, or well, I'm friends with the husband too, you know, and he's friends with the wife. You grew up together. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't think that, you know, maybe we should touch on that, like opposite sex friendships. I don't want it to seem like, Oh my gosh, only Josh can be friends with the husband and the couples that were friends. And I think there's a lot of room to be friends.
00:13:26
Speaker
in Christ with people the opposite sex. But my female friends, I probably tend to be a little bit more on the extrovert end of things. I have more friends than the average person. And I think everyone has those kind of concentric circles of friendship. You've got your acquaintances, distant acquaintances, then you've got your, you know, you would definitely call them friends. You have history with them, but maybe they were
00:13:51
Speaker
friends that you were closer with in a past season. And then you have your inner circle. And my inner circle is probably bigger than most people's inner circle. I have probably about 10 people in my innermost circle. And, you know, some of those, I'd say about half of them are long distance. So I talk with them daily, I text with them via, you know,
00:14:12
Speaker
Voxer voice messaging apps or texting etc. And we keep up that way. Yeah, there's definitely like an ongoing dialogue for most of the day.
00:14:23
Speaker
But maybe that's an example of how women connect a little differently. We either connect by, I have some local friends who I'll do errands with or we'll meet up for coffee or we'll do an activity with our kids. It's face to face, it's talking. And then my long distance friends, it's more I keep up with them by talking via Voxer and we just talk about things. So I think Josh and I do connect differently with people. Like when you're talking to your long distance friends, what are you usually doing?
00:14:52
Speaker
I'm usually sitting there looking at my phone talking. Or playing a game, but you're also playing a game sometimes. Well yeah, I'll socially play online games with them, but if we're talking just to talk, then that's the only thing we're doing.
00:15:06
Speaker
You're like making dinner, cleaning the house, writing a research paper or something or a book. What's funny is I can hear them doing the same thing. They're always like banging pots and pans on their end of the phone or like you hear kids running around in the background. It is true. We're multitaskers when it comes to friendship, but it looks different.
00:15:28
Speaker
for Josh and I both to connect with same-sex friends, but it is a priority. And I would say that my friends, my women friends have been so helpful to me in our marriage because, and in my ministry, I would say this, the ministry that I have today would not exist without the women who are behind the scenes praying for me and talking to me and working through things with me. And they're a huge support.
00:15:58
Speaker
but also they're supporters of my marriage and they champion my marriage and they pray for my marriage and they speak into it and they speak life over it. And those are the people I want to have in my corner. Even when my marriage is struggling, which I have a select few that I can say, Hey, my marriage is struggling and I need prayer for this, et cetera.
Cultivating Couple Friendships
00:16:20
Speaker
And I know that they won't judge me or Josh beyond, you know, speaking truth to me.
00:16:26
Speaker
they'll speak the truth, the gospel truth to me, but they're not going to be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that you are having a problem in your marriage, you know? So it's great to have those people who help you. Yeah.
00:16:39
Speaker
Okay, let's transition to cultivating couple friendships, like cultivating friendships together. I think this can get a little wonky because sometimes if you're friends with someone and that person's married and then you go out as a couple, the spouses, like one spouse might be friends with the other spouse, but then their wives don't get along or their husbands don't get along.
00:17:04
Speaker
it's a numbers game you don't really know is everybody going to get along the same amount do you have any tips or thoughts about how to like
00:17:16
Speaker
I think it's really important like oftentimes there will be two extroverts in the room and two introverts and the introverts usually just end up staring at each other while the extroverts are just like talking all sorts of prolifications and stuff. So I think it's really important for the extroverts to include the introverts
00:17:45
Speaker
and pull them into the conversation, even though they may not seem like they could keep pace. They could at least be involved and just be included with that.
00:18:00
Speaker
Or maybe you just have to slow down a little bit to include them because it can be weird. Like if the extrovert is like your wife and their husband, you know, it's really hard to have like a male on male girl, like female and female conversation. I think it's important to try and include everyone.
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, slowing down is just so hard for those extroverts. Yeah. But it's, I would say also on the other end of things that for introverted spouses, I would encourage researching
00:18:44
Speaker
I'm literally researching how to cultivate small talk and how to engage someone and to learn how to be better at conversation because I really believe that a lot of the problem that happens with couples and going out or cultivating friendships comes back to
00:19:05
Speaker
this extrovert-introvert problem, but I think in today's world, sometimes introversion isn't the problem. Just being quieter or exhausted by people, that's not always the problem. The problem is a social anxiety brought on by not knowing how to talk to people. And that's because we don't teach etiquette anymore. That's my theory, is that we don't teach etiquette, we don't teach how to introduce, how to hold small talk so people hate it because it's unknown,
00:19:35
Speaker
then they get super anxious about those social situations. So if you have a spouse who's like that, of course they're not going to want to go on a double date with people they don't really know. And inviting people you don't really know into your home and into your life is a fundamental of Christianity. That's hospitality. And I would say the reason that we've been able to be hospitable is because you, Josh, have cultivated a
00:20:02
Speaker
humility and a teachability in this area where you've grown in your conversational skills and you've always worked really hard to learn how to hold a conversation, even when you weren't comfortable with it. And I think because you were willing to do that and you were willing to grow, we've been able to have people in our home. We've been able to go out with a variety of different couples and get to know them. It doesn't mean we're perfect at conversation by any means, but I would say that you were always willing
00:20:30
Speaker
to grow in that area. And I know from hearing from wives that not all husbands are that willing to grow. Not all wives are that willing to say, Hey, you know what? This is an area of growth for me and I'm going to work on this. I'm going to learn how to ask good questions. Yeah. Something you said was interesting. You said that it was an effort to be hospitable. And so like, including people and
00:20:56
Speaker
Um, you know, talking to the person who doesn't have anyone to talk to, that is a form of hospitality. Like if they're in your home and you want to be welcome in, like you want to make sure everyone feels welcomed and included. So, um, you know, for someone to reach out and do that, even if they feel introverted is definitely an important thing. Yeah, for sure.
00:21:24
Speaker
Okay, so talked about cultivating friendships one-on-one and then cultivating friendships as a couple. What about cultivating friendships after you have kids? Because I hear from culture, not so much from like my followers online or our listeners, but
00:21:41
Speaker
more from culture that once you have kids, your friendships are going to die. And I don't feel like that's been true for us. Yeah, I think that different life stages does create a hurdle.
00:21:56
Speaker
where it is a little more strained. When you have kids, you usually schedule stuff more. And then people who don't have kids are much more flexible, so they live a slightly more spontaneous life. And maybe be even adverse to scheduling.
00:22:18
Speaker
I would, I want to say one thing about that. I think our culture celebrates this idea that spontaneity is better or spontaneity is more fun or spontaneity and this applies to sex, it applies to schedules, it applies to dates. If it's spontaneous, it's better. And I would say
00:22:41
Speaker
I think we have to let go of that lie because it is a lie that if it's spontaneous, it's better because I think that it, that is an expectation and a lie that gets adopted. And it actually causes a lot of couples who don't have kids yet to be afraid of having kids. Don't you think? Cause I mean, certainly there are times where we're like, no, it'd be a lot easier to just go out on our own,
00:23:10
Speaker
you know, and not have to book a babysitter, right? Sure.
00:23:13
Speaker
that would be easier. I think some of the spontaneity allows people to like at the time that they have the free time and the choice to do XYZ, they can look at all their options and say, I like that one best. And so they have that the options, the choice to decide what's best. And so like planning stuff kind of
00:23:41
Speaker
Sets you in a you know a rail where you don't have that option if something else were to come up me like ah That sounds really fun to go to yeah, I can't do it because I scheduled this Right a lot of people love a younger generation. I found is very interested in options and
00:24:03
Speaker
I would say that's almost like a zillennial millennial thing. Yeah, the younger, well, we're millennials, but maybe the younger millennials, it's like, I have to have all my options. And I think we just have to be careful where our idols are. Like if your idol is structure, that's wrong. You know, I have to have it this way. It has to go according to plan. It's also wrong to idolize spontaneity.
00:24:24
Speaker
and to worship your schedule in that way, or to let that become your God to the point that you devalue having kids in human life.
Intentionality with Children in Friendships
00:24:34
Speaker
So, I mean, we can go either direction for sure. But I think you made a great point, but I would say one of the benefits actually to me
00:24:44
Speaker
of having kids and having friendships is you have less options. There's less decision fatigue or there's less overwhelm. Like, oh, we could do all of these things. And so it's too much. So we just stay home. You know, instead for us, I feel like it's like, okay.
00:25:01
Speaker
the nutcrackers this weekend. We would like to dress up and go. Let me arrange to see if there's a babysitter available. And then it's like, it's like really special because we have planned for it.
00:25:16
Speaker
For our experience, I guess, I would say that having kids has made us more intentional because when you have that time, you're going to make it worth it. So you schedule the time and you're all in, you're devoted.
00:25:38
Speaker
Like when it comes to going on dates, it's like, well, okay, we hired a babysitter, you know, we got some skin in the game. Like, let's like make this date worth it. And we're going to just be totally invested instead of just like, Oh, this is just another Tuesday night. Yeah. Like at home dates haven't worked super well for us, but I will say.
00:26:02
Speaker
It's been good in the sense that when you're having friends over, if you have to have an at home date, it can be fun to do it by having other couples join you. Yeah. Because then it isn't just you and your lounge pants. Well, maybe like a game night. Yeah, we've done game.
00:26:18
Speaker
or we've had some friends who don't have kids yet and they're super gracious and we're like oh darn we couldn't get a babysitter and they're like it's okay we'll just come on over you know so there's a lot of ways to do it i think a lot of people run into problems
00:26:33
Speaker
in their friendships when it comes to different parenting styles. And we're not going to comment on different parenting style, but I would just say that you kind of have to give a lot of grace and then figure out like, are you close enough to the person if it's a really big problem to like speak into their life about their parenting. And I would say that's pretty rare that you can
00:26:57
Speaker
you can be that close to somebody. And that's not a huge deal on like a double date or something.
The Power of Prayer in Friendships
00:27:03
Speaker
But when like you have the families together, you go on family trips, you know, to sightsee or whatnot. Like that's when it becomes like, you know,
00:27:16
Speaker
How are my children witnessing things? You'll have to have close enough values where that's not going to be a problem. And we have one family that we've traveled with multiple times, and we're traveling again with them very soon. It always goes so well. So far, I think it will continue too, because they're great people. And we're close enough now with them.
00:27:43
Speaker
we don't mind, you know, we can not parent each other's kids, but you can say, Hey, out of line, you know, she can say, Hey, don't do that out of line. And I'm not like upset about that. Or, you know, we can, you know, direct their kids back to whatever we were all doing, and they're not going to be offended at that, you know, so I think the closer you get with a mutual understanding, yeah, you grow as couples together and as families together, it gets easier.
00:28:09
Speaker
to continue to form those relationships in a positive way. But I mean, wouldn't you say a lot of friendship is seasons, trial and error, and finding people who truly are humble and working on humility yourself? Yeah, I would say that like, for me, the Lord has definitely brought friends in and out of my life.
00:28:37
Speaker
Like he has answered prayers about bringing friends into my life. Oh, for sure. So, you know, because I've had dry spells and through prayer, I was brought like close friends and like this accountability group as well. And so that's been such a blessing for me.
00:28:58
Speaker
And that's something I prayed for him for months and years, was that he would have quality friends who were strong in their faith and could walk alongside him as he grew in his faith and not just be weaker than him. That was something as a wife I really wanted.
00:29:18
Speaker
and prayed for. And the Lord totally answered that. He's also answered my prayers for myself to have good friends and community. Every time I've prayed that prayer, either for Josh or for myself, God has answered it. But it was perseverant prayer. I would say it was not overnight, right?
Episode Conclusion and Book Launch
00:29:35
Speaker
Yeah, it was not. It takes time.
00:29:38
Speaker
Well, hopefully this gives a few ideas for cultivating friendships as a couple. Again, as we've said in every episode of this series, we do not consider ourselves experts. We've only been married almost eight years, but in those eight years we've packed in a lot of transition. There's been a lot of stress.
00:29:55
Speaker
in our relationship, and we've learned a whole lot the hard way. And so hopefully it just encourages you wherever you are at in your own marriage to seek the Lord to keep him first and to keep one another first as well. We want to thank you also. Last week was the launch of The Flirtation Experiment, December 7th, 2021. And we wanted to just thank you so much. Those of you who bought the book, who made it number one in Christian marriage on Amazon, it just meant so much to us that you would
00:30:25
Speaker
support the book that way. Me and Lisa Jacobs and my co-author are both just so excited for the book to get out into the world and grateful for your support. We will be back next week with episode 11 and then we only have one more week after that. Thanks for hanging with us. We hope you have a great week.
00:30:42
Speaker
Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Verity. You can connect with fellow listeners by following me on Instagram at Felicia Masonheimer or on our Facebook page by the same name. Also visit FeliciaMasonheimer.com for links to each episode and the show notes.