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Episode 23 Part 2: Superliga vs. Allsvenskan w/ Jonathan Fadugba
487 Plays1 year ago
In an epic two part episode I decided to delve into the topic of Danish football vs. Swedish football. What are the key differences, why is one ahead of the other in European competitions, which players have moved between the countries and what’s it like on the pitch. In this part 2 I talk to a longtime friend of mine and esteemed Swedish football expert Jonathan Fadugba to hear his thoughts on the relative fortunes of the two leagues having covered the Allsvenskan for the best part of a decade.
There is also a recap the weekend’s Superliga round 30 action with the drama intensifying ahead of the final two rounds and still nothing decided at either end of the table.
As ever if you want to support all the Danish football content I put out please head to Patreon and sign up. It costs the equivalent of a coffee a month and is greatly appreciated at Football In Denmark HQ!
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Transcript
Introduction to Jonathan Fadugba
00:00:02
Speaker
Okay, welcome back. Making his Danish Dynamite debut is a great friend of mine. He wears many hats in the world of football, but amongst those, he's the founder of Future Global Sports, host of the Nordic Football Podcast, and a regular guest on, I think it's the biggest football podcast anywhere in the world, Guardian Football Weekly. It's Jonathan Fedugba. Welcome to the party, mate.
00:00:22
Speaker
Henry, thank you. Nice to be on the show. Thanks for that nice intro. It feels like we've come full circle, obviously, from you being an esteemed guest on the Nordic Pod. Now I feel proud to see the show that you're doing so well and going from strength to strength. Thanks for inviting me. I appreciate
Joining and Impacting Nordic Football Podcast
00:00:40
Speaker
it, man. I think it was you who gave me the nudge to do it. I kept bugging you saying,
00:00:44
Speaker
Can you start featuring Danish football and Nordic football podcast? And you're like, listen, if you want it, you're going to have to come and do it. Yeah, like, yeah, I definitely feel like you know, you've taken it and run with it in a really amazing way. So it's been really good to see you make that just obviously we know each other from from a long time, even before Scandinavian football, maybe. So, yeah, it's great to see your
Passion for Swedish Football and Moving to Sweden
00:01:07
Speaker
journey. And yes, it's good, man. So I'm happy the podcast is going so well.
00:01:11
Speaker
Cheers, man. Thank you. I really appreciate that and for quite a number of years. I know you've been into Swedish football How did you get into it in the first place? Yeah, so it's a long story short it kind of came about when I began well when we we sort of Worked with future global sports when we founded it like we saw a gap in kind of
00:01:28
Speaker
the Brexit market off the label from players maybe from lower leagues moving out abroad and originally that was kind of the one of the projects that we were working on at the time and being a bit of an obsessive that I am I was like well if we're going to do something like that then I need to immerse myself in it so
00:01:45
Speaker
you know with friends I'd already had trips to Sweden in the past and I loved it and I happened to just meet someone randomly and they were like listen I'll try and help you find a place if you ever wanted to move here. I think I think I joked one day saying I'd love to live here and someone was like took me up on it basically and was like I'll find you a place and they did so I had to kind of stick to my word. I moved out there and I was just doing a lot of like scouting and just getting involved in immersing myself in football. You probably will agree and maybe your listeners will agree as well like the
00:02:12
Speaker
from an english point of view anyway like the the relative obscurity of the league makes it kind of in a way quite endearing and appealing if you know what i mean like it's not as hyped as maybe like the english league the premier league that we we work in it's like it's a little bit more calm and you can get yourself you can get your teeth into it a bit more i think in some ways
00:02:29
Speaker
that's a bit more accessible. So I threw myself into that and we were kind of, I was then helping close, maybe try and find players in Scandinavia and that kind of thing. So it was kind of a two way thing. Obviously Brexit came along and ruined a little bit of that, but that wasn't the reason that I kind of moved back. I moved back for other reasons.
00:02:45
Speaker
So yeah, I'd been out in Sweden for a while. And when I came back, obviously, for those who maybe have listened to the Nordic Football Podcast, the colleague on the show, Steve Wiss, he's worked in the Norwegian football world from a betting point of view. And we'd worked together at a company called Football Radar, which is an analysis company. We'd worked on the same league together. So we become good friends doing French football, funnily enough.
00:03:12
Speaker
because he knew Norwegian football I was obviously in touch with him and I was every now and then he was asking me about Sweden and we'd have conversations about Sweden and Norway etc and we're having these long conversations and obviously you know the best left back in Ozfensken isn't really a conversation for your for your missus or your wife or you know like your friends like no one really you know in England is
00:03:31
Speaker
Maybe it's not mainstream, so it's
Creation of the Podcast on Nordic Football
00:03:33
Speaker
a bit niche. So eventually one day I just said to him, why don't we start a podcast? We're talking all this, saying all these things together, chatting all the time about these different players and stuff. Why don't we create a podcast? And so that's, yeah, that's pretty much how it came about.
00:03:46
Speaker
Amazing, man. Amazing. And what do you think it is that continues to draw you to it to this day? Because I can understand that initial excitement, something new, something to get your teeth into. But we're now, however many years, seven, eight years down the line. What is it that keeps you coming back?
00:04:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good question, actually. Partly just out of commitment and wanting to continue it. Partly, I guess I'm someone that doesn't really give up on projects too easily, if you know what I mean. I think once I start something, I generally try and see it through, which has its pros and cons, I think. But yeah, I think the main reason is I really enjoy it. I really enjoy the league. Obviously, the podcast has grown a following that
00:04:29
Speaker
You know, it's like a little community now that I've enjoyed. And obviously, you know, you've built your community as well from your podcast, you know, in super quick time. And you probably understand that as well.
Understanding Swedish Football's Unique Aspects
00:04:38
Speaker
And your listeners probably understand that you just get that feeling and that kind of like that connection. The league itself is quite attractive in the sense that it's a summer league, obviously. And that's the conversation we could probably have. You know, the Swedish league is kind of like coincides with the end of the Premier League, if that makes sense to a certain extent. The league starts in April.
00:04:57
Speaker
That's near the end of the season in England and it ends in November, which is obviously mid-season in England, but you've got that whole summer so you can kind of concentrate on it. So it is a little bit of a free time in the schedule in terms of my other commitments.
00:05:10
Speaker
And then just love because I followed the league, I really got intensely into it. Maybe from an analysis point of view, like we say on the pod, we've had databases of these players for many years. So every year I update that database and have a good, really deep knowledge of players. And I just like to see where their journeys go. I like to keep an eye on the young talents, keep tabs on the league, and just be a resource maybe for people.
00:05:35
Speaker
It's led to business opportunities as well and I've been fortunate enough to get opportunities from that. I think the passion for it and maybe a little bit of geeky commitment to it as well. I recently went out there after a few years not being in Sweden due to the pandemic and it just rekindled my feeling and my love for it. It's a great country. Like I said, I like the league in terms of the level of it. I like it as a launchpad to Europe as well. It's the quality of the league. I think it's quite good.
00:06:04
Speaker
I'm someone who's happy watching it all differently. I mean, I don't need to be sort of watching the Premier League week in, week out. So I like that contrast as well. Yeah. I think the guys who sit next to me at Arsenal are bored to tears of the number of players I point out and go, that guy used to play the Super League. I was doing it last week against Southampton when the Campbell Dean Suleimana came off the bench. I was like, watch this guy. He's absolutely mustard. Wait for it. And he didn't really do anything. But I'm similar. I like to see those journeys of players and
00:06:32
Speaker
You know, you've got receipts going back a long time. I remember you telling me about Alexander Isaac when he was at ICORE and, you know, look where he is now, man. So I think that your talent ID is exactly where it needed to be.
00:06:46
Speaker
Yeah, it's very similar to what you just said about Suleiman. It's like you're in a way sort of telling everyone and by the time they're big like no one really cares because they're only that big club but you've got the history and the receipts to show that you know it's nice as well because it confirms your eye, it confirms like what you saw in the first place when they were kind of
00:07:05
Speaker
not doing so well and sometimes you get players who don't make it if you don't mean on to that high level that maybe you thought would and that's something I'm really passionate about in my work and in my sort of work life of like the pathway of the player pathway of football is like how it goes and what stops it and the different challenges and sometimes you have a gem that doesn't make it
00:07:25
Speaker
Um, sometimes you have players that you don't expect that do make it. And that is something that really, that's like a puzzle. I really enjoy unlocking. And so I think that the obscure leagues do appeal to me in that sense of, you know, trying to pick those ones out and find them. And so, yeah, I'm sure you probably agree as well. Like, you know, to a certain extent, and I'm sure your listeners probably would, um, as well. Yeah, for sure. And we all know if there's a, there's a play you tip who doesn't end up making it just delete the tweets.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, basically. I've still got my Benjamin Negan tweets there somewhere. We can probably talk about him a bit later. He scored tonight for FC Norjland. He scored a really important goal and Norjland are now one point behind FC Copenhagen with two games to go so he took his chance well. He hasn't really started many games this season but he started tonight and well-taken goals so we are going to talk about him.
00:08:16
Speaker
I have one more question around the practicalities. So firstly, how do you watch Swedish football and how does it fit in with your week? Because for me, the Super League games are there's one on Friday, there's one on Monday and there's four on Sunday. So I kind of within all my other commitments and my other football watching, I kind of have games plugged into those slots. But how does it work in Sweden?
00:08:38
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really good question, actually. I've kind of got into a routine where, I mean, in terms of how you watch it, that unfortunately, I do believe that Discovery own the rights in England. And I think they do actually, there is a way that I believe you can watch it when Amazon Prime, but I'm not entirely sure as of this season. I have a software just due to another work, just due to another role that allows me to watch games. And also you can also watch it on betting sites, for example, which isn't ideal if that's not your thing, but obviously you can sign up. And if you have an account,
00:09:08
Speaker
also end scans are available on those sites which is sometimes a good way although the screen isn't exactly amazing it's like a small screen that kind of thing but obviously it'll have to do. I've got into a nice routine because the league starts in April so usually March preparation starts for the new season in terms of just updating spreadsheets and things like that trying to figure out like what players are moving and that just going through all that for the season preview which is obviously
00:09:30
Speaker
one of the biggest shows of the year and getting players to watch and things like that preparing who's leaving, who's coming. And then in that kind of period, like which we're in now, which is when the Premier League season is kind of ending, that's when you, I tend to watch games maybe on the, there's games on the Saturday and Sunday and then there's a Monday evening game. So I tend to try and watch a couple of games at the weekend, if it's maybe a couple of Sunday games and then the Monday game.
00:09:56
Speaker
Or if I've got time on a Saturday sometimes it can it can be an issue later in the season because you have You know, obviously the Premier League start so from what from August it can be a little bit more challenging I'd say between August and November, but I tend to try and find as much time as possible to at least catch one or two games a week and And then obviously recording the show. So that's pretty much how I do it
00:10:21
Speaker
And is there a, would you say, like a dominant style of play or a dominant formation within the league? Yes, good question, because tactically, we had a show about two years ago, I think, where we went into every single team's tactics and kind of broke down. There was just a new wave in Sweden suddenly, I think, that came about.
00:10:45
Speaker
I think you could probably actually link it back to Graham Potter at Austerson's. When he came and the job he did there, Sweden was kind of for a while known as like a 4-4-2 league really, and everyone just sort of had two banks of four, Athletico Madrid style and maybe a little bit of variation, but very much kind of quite similar styles. Graham Potter came in and I'm not saying he was the main person that revolutionized it, but he definitely I think played a role in changing that a little bit in Swedish football.
00:11:14
Speaker
Which kind of heart back to the way i should manage in in sweden as well i'm when you manage the mom teams in the light he had a really good he's got a really good place in sweden hodgson he was kind of thought of as a bit of an innovator at the time so it's a similar so english link there but some
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah put a came in and he had just different styles different ways of motivating pleasant i think you could trend it from there you start to see more. Different styles three four three three five twos and if you look at the lead now you've got sort of top teams maybe like mom at the moment who.
00:11:46
Speaker
who play a kind of possession game under the manager that they have, who's a really highly rated manager. You have kind of the team that won the league, Beck or Hacken, who are really sort of fast transitions, counter-attacking, attacking, speedy team, maybe similar to some things you might associate in Denmark and have that 4-3-3 style really quick on the counter if they break you down. Then you've got kind of some of the smaller teams even we see now, like, I mean, not one team that I was at when I was in,
00:12:16
Speaker
in Gothenburg this month on a trip. Degevors, for example, who
Evolution of Swedish Football Tactics
00:12:20
Speaker
are a lower team, they have a sort of interesting 3-4-3 style where it very much relies on the wing backs to kind of play diagonal overheads to out wide to the other flank. So it doesn't work all the time. I mean, the game, I wish they lost 6-0, but there is a lot more innovation these days than the last two or three years. Obviously, a bit like anywhere, really.
00:12:45
Speaker
I tend to think of football at the moment as like Pep Guardiola is at the top in terms of innovation and everyone else kind of tends to follow. So I can imagine in the next few years maybe we'll start to see you know full backs inverting and that kind of thing as he's been doing with that city team. But at the moment I'd probably say the 4-2-3-1 is still a predominant formation but there's a lot of variation now and teams are quite tactically flexible I think which has been really good actually. It's made the league I think more entertaining to watch definitely from my point of view.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yeah. And you mentioned Roy Hodgson actually, and he's a bit of a Scandinavian or a Nordic legend because he managed in Sweden, but he also won the league with FC Copenhagen. He managed vKing in Norway and he was the Finland national team manager. So he's been on tour big time in that region of the world. Yeah. He's considered like a hero in Sweden in terms of Malmö and
00:13:40
Speaker
he's really considered as an innovator. And I think that's probably, you might agree as well, Henry, like that's one of the interesting things about
00:13:47
Speaker
following a different lead closely is like the perceptions you get, you know what I mean? The perceptions you get maybe in the English media of Hodgson, for example, are very different to like how he's perceived elsewhere. And I think I enjoy that. It gives you anyone who likes traveling, obviously, can understand that you get different perspectives when you travel, if you know what I mean? And you hear different opinions, different people's points of view. And that's one thing I enjoy about it as well. It's like you hear things from a different narrative, different perspective. And yeah, like you said, Hodgson is
00:14:15
Speaker
He's a bit of a legend in that part of the world, which I guess if you said that to a lot of people in England, they wouldn't really have him as an innovator. Yeah, I do like the fact that there is an alternative perspective out there, and I think it's so easy to be blinded by the limited perspective we have watching English football. So if I take a player, for example, like Andreas Cornelius,
00:14:35
Speaker
If you ask anyone in England, have you heard of him? They'll go, yeah, he's the guy who flopped at Cardiff. But you ask anyone in Denmark and they'll have a completely different opinion because he's had three stints at FC Copenhagen and was very dominant for the large parts of that. So, yeah, I think it's important that we take this perspective we have and apply it because there's a whole bunch of players where I think there's a narrative already written because of their time in England or Scotland and actually
00:15:04
Speaker
that the reality is something a bit different. Yeah, I totally agree with that. There's a big wide world out there and I think that's part of the interest, I guess, and I'm sure you'd probably may agree as well. It's just that, just having those different perspectives and seeing the world from a different angle, maybe in the football world as well, because like you say, Cornelius or Hodgson or, you know, there's so many characters that you can kind of look at and I suppose it makes you realise in a way how big the Premier League is in the sense of like,
00:15:29
Speaker
the scale of it, what it means, it's kind of the top of the food chain and the difficulty of getting there, if you know what I mean, in terms of starting, if you're starting in these maybe quote unquote second tier leagues, maybe trying to get there, it's a hard journey and it makes you appreciate it a bit more as well and from that perspective and how difficult it is to make it.
00:15:46
Speaker
And on the topic of team styles, I know in Denmark there are teams that perhaps unfairly have a kind of a label for their style that tends to surpass individual managers. So, you know, AGF, for example, are known as being very physical, FC Nordsland, very technical. Are there any teams in Sweden that have a style that has kind of endured long periods?
00:16:08
Speaker
I think it's fluid because maybe Denmark is a slightly lesser extent, but in Sweden you definitely don't get much time with players. So if they are good, you tend to have Belgium knocking at the door within six months or so. I think it's hard from that point of view to really build some sort of legacy, if that makes sense.
00:16:29
Speaker
Let's take an example, Jan-Dale Tomlinson's Malmo. He was there a couple of seasons and then he got the, now he's obviously at Blackburn Rovers and got a big job. I think if you do well, you're on the radar quite quickly, both from a playing perspective and the managerial perspective. Potter coming from the third, fourth tier in Sweden and building that team into Swedish Cup winners and getting into the Europa League. That's something that was a long running dynasty that he created.
00:16:55
Speaker
I mean it's hard to, I think it's hard to create that unless you're at one of the bigger clubs and the challenge for the bigger clubs is like you're still small in terms of the football ecosystem and the food chain. You know your best player could take Malmo as an example Hugo Larson.
00:17:11
Speaker
the moment he's only 18 years old he's already signed two contracts in his career and he's already been had a bid from Bournemouth for 12 million euros so even your project players it's really hard to you know if they they can be project players to a certain point but once they get to a level of doing well it's very very hard to keep them so I think from that point it is quite hard you always the league's always regenerating and I think the stars are always regenerating based on that. I think if I was to highlight one manager maybe it would be Henrik
00:17:38
Speaker
Henry Reedstrom at Malmo. He's a good example of a manager that has been really stuck to his philosophical style of possession based football He's coached three different teams in the last three four years Serious Kalmar and now Malmo and every team he's had he's coached They've been the best team in the league or top two in the league in terms of possession and that's gone right through from a really small team to like a one of the big team now who were top of the league and
00:18:02
Speaker
So that possession style and that ability to translate it to different clubs has been really impressive and I think he will end up having a big job somewhere else in Europe. But I guess to answer your question it can be quite difficult to get that time to really build a predominant tactical style if that makes sense.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah, and actually that approach, you talked about the possession-based approach that fits very well with a team in Denmark. Silkeborg under Kent Nielsen, they consistently are the lowest pressing, highest possession, highest passing team in the Super League and that has served them reasonably well until the final part of this season. One of the things that came out of the interview earlier with Vito Hamashoy Mistrati was he said,
00:18:44
Speaker
that having played in the Superleaguer and the Ousfensken, he's reasonably well-placed to be able to talk about the strengths. And he said actually the strength of the two leagues feels almost identical, but the big difference is that obviously the Superleaguer has 12 teams and Ousfensken has 16. And he said that if
00:19:03
Speaker
if the league was to go from 16 to 12 teams it would be really really competitive but it's those extra four teams that drag the overall quality down. Would you agree with that and would you like to see the league tighten up a bit and move to fewer teams?
Should the Swedish League Reduce Teams?
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's an interesting question and a good point. And finally enough, I was reading something the other day about Scotland and there were calls from managers in Scotland, I think in the lower tiers, to sort of increase the amount of teams in the SPL because they were arguing that it's almost too hard. They have a really convoluted playoff system. Well, not convoluted, but if you finish sort of runner-up in the lower tiers,
00:19:38
Speaker
You kind of go through a playoff and then you play like maybe the relegated team that one of the relegated teams in in this SPL so The point was being made that it's really hard to actually get promoted into that top tier and then that means it's really hard to developers as football clubs because you're always
00:19:54
Speaker
the odds are you're not going to make it rather than you are not going to make it. Another good example is Spain's Segunda Liga. That's really the system there. It's really crazy in terms of how many different teams in different regions you have to play against them to maybe get that one promotion place. I probably wouldn't agree. I think if it was last year I'd probably have to agree with Vito in the sense of
00:20:14
Speaker
last year there was one just outstandingly quite poor team, Giswensvaar, who really struggled and that meant that basically it really couldn't you know it was almost a bit of a dead game when he played against them it was they were just getting thrashed left right and center. I think that overall I do think that there has been a decent balance in Sweden in terms of the 16 teams it's usually quite competitive I mean if you look at the league now
00:20:36
Speaker
I'm from a Poikina who were in the 30 two years ago. They've had back-to-back promotions and now they're doing really well in this fence again. At the same time, you've got maybe teams that come up and maybe can struggle a little bit. But I wouldn't want to reduce it to 12 teams. I think that would only make the bigger teams maybe even bigger, if that makes sense, and there'd be fewer games.
00:20:59
Speaker
I do like a 16-team league. It's a 30-game season. You play each other twice. I prefer that to say, for example, a Scottish system where you start playing teams three, four times. I'm of the feeling that home and away is the good way to do it. So I'm pretty comfortable with how it is. Maybe, yeah, there are a few teams that I think when you go into the SuperF and the second tier in Sweden, it's a little bit
00:21:22
Speaker
there is a little bit of a difference in quality. But we have seen teams competing, teams like Ostersson, I know they had financial issues, but we have seen teams come up and be competitive. Okay, interesting. Another point I wanted to bring up was that certainly when we were growing up in the mid 90s, Sweden felt like the strongest of the Nordic countries. I remember IFK Gothenburg
00:21:44
Speaker
more or less you know being in the Champions League pretty often and it feels now like Sweden is very much behind Denmark in terms of European performance. I had a look through Swedish teams in Europe in the last 10 years and there are only seven teams that made it. Three Champions League group stages in the last 10 years, three Europa League group stages in the last 10 years and one conference league
00:22:08
Speaker
In comparison, Denmark had 17, so four Champions League group stage entrants, nine Europa League group stages and four Conference League group stage entrants. What do you think is the reason behind that shift? Does it come down to finances? Does it come down to player development? I know that the Danish teams have
00:22:28
Speaker
made a lot of big sales recently, you know, north of 10 million euros, which is a heady days for the Nordic region. But what's been behind that shift? And, you know, would you agree that sort of Denmark is top at the moment and then Sweden and then Norway, or would you have a different order?
Financial Struggles and European Competition Challenges
00:22:44
Speaker
Yes, a great question. I think a lot of it is down to finances, just in the sense of, you know what I say, Henry? I think the biggest thing from a financial point of view is the challenge of the summer window. I think the summer transfer window is a killer for Swedish teams because you're basically mid-season. The timing of the transfer window, obviously the European mainstream transfer window is in that summer period.
00:23:08
Speaker
And there is a chance window in Sweden in that period. And basically you get midway through a season and they have a Midsummer break. So, you know, I think from June 8th, I think is that this is a Midsummer break. There's no games till July. So basically what happens is the big teams, let's say you've won the league in the season before that. You've then got a long winter where there's no games, where your opponents are playing week in week out. If you don't, I mean, let's say you're playing a team from, I don't know, Cyprus or someone like that. You've got teams playing their season out, whereas you've got say three, four months, not really playing much.
00:23:37
Speaker
you then get into your rhythm sort of April, May. And then by the time that you you're into a little bit of rhythm, June comes along June, July transfer window. So the best players tend to maybe leave around then. So it's very hard to keep players to see out the full actual European season to to then be competitive in Europe. So if you were to compare, you know, let's take Bequak and the champions of Sweden now.
00:24:00
Speaker
there's a good chance that by the time they play their European qualifiers they'll have lost a couple of their best players because of the fact that their trance windows are opening in June. So I think that's a timing issue that the timing of the league and when it placed I don't think helps and just the reality of the finance is that they can't keep these top players you know.
00:24:21
Speaker
I, it's like a regular running joke on the Nordic podcast, football podcast, where it's like, it doesn't take, you know, a player to sort of get two goals and two assists. And they're off to, they're off to Belgium, basically, if you know what I mean. And Negron is the one that always was a joke to me in that sense of like, I'm a running joke because he was in Sweden for so little time before he got moving. It's happened so often. So I think that that is a real challenge because you're
00:24:44
Speaker
you know, you've got a stream of qualifiers to go through to get to these leagues. And maybe with the invention of the conference league, I mean, your garden had a really good conference league run last season, you know, managing to get to the knockout stages, which is, you know, I think a big achievement in Swedish football. It's not something that's really happening too often these days. Malmo had a really tough time when they, under Thomas and we're in the Champions League. It's a couple of years ago now with, you know, they lost to Juventus, Chelsea, they were pretty, their group was pretty,
00:25:12
Speaker
Then as well, I think they were you know, they finished bottom the group and really struggle to get any kind of points But like I say, the key issue is that it's a real struggle to keep those top players that got them there in the first place And then strengthen as well to be competitive. So I think it's a mixture of like the league the quality of the league Obviously, you're you're playing bigger league strength wise, but you're also Losing maybe some of your key men at a crucial time in the season Whereas other teams are signing players at that point of the season if that makes sense So I think that's the that's the problem
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
Pros and Cons of Swedish Summer Leagues
00:25:41
Speaker
And this sort of idea of a summer league is something that I've talked about recently because I think it's not a complete open goal, but I do think there's an opportunity maybe for the Super League to head down that path just because I think that in some ways, I know losing players is a big disadvantage and I know that that comes with it, but I think in some ways,
00:26:04
Speaker
it helps your chances in Europe if you have a reasonably settled squad, because by the time you hit those qualifiers that normally happen in July, you know, your season is underway and you're hitting teams who are probably playing quite cold. And I think about, for example, AGF lost last season in the first round of the European qualifiers to Laan from Northern Ireland. And I feel like it was probably
00:26:31
Speaker
one of ADF's first games of the season, and that really cost them there. And so I do wonder, given that the winter break is over 80 days in Denmark, the weather is, as it is in Sweden, cold and miserable for the winter. I do wonder whether there's a case for it, but it sounds like you're exercising extreme caution with that approach.
00:26:54
Speaker
You know, you make a really good point there as well. And it's something it's kind of like two sides of a coin, isn't it? And it's hard to know which which one to go towards. Sometimes it can just be preparation. I remember we had a guest once on the show and I mean, they were making the point that they were almost bored of like the long break, you know, that had so long just coaching and training waiting for the season to start.
00:27:14
Speaker
from sort of November to April, it's a long time. So that rhythm is sometimes missing and that can be a factor. But at the same time, there's a freshness maybe as well. So it's hard to balance that. And I guess it comes on a team by team basis. I think at the end of the day, I would put the main thing down to the fact that it's just player attention is harder. And I think the finances are getting better in Scandinavia in general. If you look at Norway as well, I think you've got teams like Glimpse beating Roma 6-1 not too long ago.
00:27:42
Speaker
I think the strength of those leagues are getting better due to player sales. I think financial transactions are getting better and the leagues are getting stronger from that point of view because they're producing so much talent. But it obviously takes its toll at a certain point. There's only so many top players you can produce over a consistent period of time.
00:27:59
Speaker
There's a fine balance to be had and I think sometimes when I'm commenting on Sweden there's leagues where there's get there's team sorry where It's fairly clear that they're almost operated just to make a profit turn a profit in terms of player sales And that's almost driving the driving the club policy rather than maybe competing for titles and so that balance is hard hard to get but um
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's a tough one to answer because obviously you do have teams maybe, like you said, Laan, there are other teams like that who have similar issues and managed to pull off a few upsets here and there. So yeah, it's really hard to pinpoint exactly why, but I think it's a combination of, obviously, finances, league timings, and then just that window and preparation.
00:28:39
Speaker
Given Denmark and Sweden and a bunch of other Nordic countries are not playing in those first couple of months of the year, I wonder if there's a case to bring back the Royal League. For anyone listening who doesn't know about the Royal League, it was this
00:28:52
Speaker
strange tournament that took place between 2004, 2007, inviting teams from Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. And I'm not bringing it up just because the only three winners were Danish teams. FC Copenhagen won twice, Bronby won once. But it looked like quite an interesting thing. 12 teams across three groups. Maybe they could bring that back for the winter months and, I don't know, play indoors or something.
00:29:17
Speaker
Yeah, we do get a lot of questions about the Royal League, actually, so I don't know if it's held in the sort of fondness in the region. Obviously, it's before I covered the league, so it's not something that I covered at the time, but definitely I feel like there's a little bit of nostalgia around it. It's an interesting tournament. I think we had one pod where we actually went into the history of it and properly looked at the history of the winners and that kind of thing. I mean, maybe it could come back as an end-of-season tournament or something along those lines.
00:29:42
Speaker
tend to get that a lot anyway there's all these these sort of training camps aren't there in Marbella where a lot of Scandinavian teams basically play against each other so maybe some clever marketers could actually maybe re-conceptualize it in some way in the future who knows maybe I'm giving away an idea here but I think it probably could have legs in some way I mean there's obviously the rivalries you know there's parts of Sweden that are pretty much on the border you know pretty right close to get to them
00:30:05
Speaker
It's closer to get to Denmark than other parts of Sweden, if you know what I mean. From that perspective, it could be easy to sort out. I think it was ended because there was a lack of appetite, attendance wise, I believe, or something like that as a commercial line. I can't remember exactly the reason it stopped. Yeah, they couldn't sell the TV rights for the... I think there was an addition planned for 2008. They couldn't sell the TV rights, so they binned it.
00:30:27
Speaker
Yeah, but in the age of sort of streaming FIFA TV and stuff like that, maybe that could be revisited. Maybe you know I should start this league. I feel like you know that meme with Alan Partridge speaking into a voice recorder. I feel like the Royal League Nordic teams in Marbella. The Royal League revisited. Bring sunscreen. Yeah. Exactly.
00:30:55
Speaker
I wanted to touch on some players who've moved in both directions because although we can both share in the misery of having our best players poached by the Belgian league, there have been some players who've gone directly between Denmark and Sweden and sometimes via Belgium. There were a few players, firstly, who've come from Sweden and I remember I'm going to just reel off some names, but Eric Karl came from Eichorf at very sort of hotly tipped left back.
00:31:23
Speaker
Rooney Bardagie obviously came from the Academy in Malmo. Isaac Bergman-Johannesen, I know is a big favourite of yours and obviously Benjamin
Isaac Bergman Johannesen's Role at FC Copenhagen
00:31:34
Speaker
Negron. I wonder, have you kept tabs on them since they've gone or do you want me to give a little bit of an update and did you have high hopes for any of those in particular?
00:31:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to get an update for sure. You know, I follow your page closely, so whenever there's mentions of those kind of players, I'm always keeping an eye on it. You know, Biologie, as you mentioned, never really was in Sweden for long, so he wasn't. I don't believe at first team level, so he's not someone I've really watched that much. Karl was someone who was quite highly rated at Oikor, and he, yeah, I remember he was sold to, I think it was Ahus, as you mentioned.
00:32:10
Speaker
Yeah. And he was a decent player, maybe not a top talent, I think. But he was one that was quite highly thought of. There's a lot of talent, obviously, in the teams in Stockholm. And they tend to sort of sell them a profit quite quickly if they're doing well. So it didn't really surprise me. And then he was the other player that you just mentioned. Johansson.
00:32:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, he's the one that, as you mentioned, yeah, I love that player. I think he's a fantastic talent. He was in one of our early tender watches. Yeah, I remember always making the joke about him being born in Sutton Coldfield and sort of Gareth Southgate should call him up. I'd love to know how he's getting on. I mean, it didn't surprise me that he got a big move and I thought it was quite a sensible move as well that he made. There is that link, I think, from Norshopping to Demar. They currently have a Danish manager, actually, Norshopping.
00:32:59
Speaker
in Glen Riddesholm was at Michelin, I believe. So it felt like a natural fit. I think also behind the scenes, I think they have links with clubs there. So yeah, that did interest me. How's he getting on? Yeah, I think the weird one is he came in with a lot of fanfare and he was only 18. He's still only 20. So in terms of players' career, he's still in the formative stages and yet he's two seasons in. And I think that when I've watched
00:33:28
Speaker
what he'd done in Sweden and then saw him being deployed as a winger for FC Copenhagen. The two things didn't really compute for me. I thought he looks like a player who's much more comfortable further back and certainly when he's played as more of a left eight, it looks like he's able to put that really good range of passing to use. But he has tended to play most of his minutes further up the field, FC Copenhagen like the inverted wingers and
00:33:53
Speaker
He's played there and, you know, to be fair to him, he's not a starter and yet he's made the most of the opportunities he's got and has stood out to me as a really technically sound player and someone who I think has a real future in Copenhagen. I think FC Copenhagen's midfield has been dominated by older players, you know, Rasmus Falk, Zekka, even guys like Lucas Luria getting on a bit.
00:34:20
Speaker
And so I think there's an opportunity for him to come in and he looks like a, you know, an old head on young shoulders, very, very composed, very technically sound. So I think that he's not quite been the superstar that I was maybe expecting, but I think that he's, he's definitely shown a lot of promise. I think going on to Eric Karl, I was speaking to an AGF supporter who was kind of
00:34:47
Speaker
mirrored my thoughts, although I don't watch every AGF game, that he's promising, but he hasn't really fulfilled the initial promise yet. And again, still young, but he's not blown me away. And there are a number of really phenomenal fullbacks in the league who have blown me away and have been able to perform. So it could just be a bit more adaptation. I know moving away from home to a different country at that age must be quite tricky. So yeah, I think that the jury is still out on Karl. As I mentioned earlier, Neegar and
00:35:16
Speaker
really hasn't played that much for Nordsland. He has scored a few goals off the bench but you know here and there but maybe his goal tonight is a sign of something to come and I think he does have the number nine shirt which is perhaps some indication of how he's viewed. Rooney Bardage is a really strange one because he burst onto the scene you know I think a few days after his 16th birthday when he was actually allowed to play first-team football for the first time he started
00:35:42
Speaker
was man of the match. And it feels like this season, he's played fewer minutes than he did last season. So I don't quite know what's going on there. I know there's a lot of competition for places. I know he's still a young guy, but it feels like maybe Jakob Nistrup doesn't trust him as much as, yes, Thorup did. So jury's still out there, but I was definitely pleased that there were some talents heading to Denmark from Sweden because it gives me the opportunity to speak to you about it.
00:36:08
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. And I mean, what you say tallies with kind of how I have my feelings that Carl Carl wasn't really like it wasn't sometimes there's players that you lose and you devastated sometimes there's players you lose and you kind of just accept the political realities. I think Carl was one of them for he called it wasn't like a he wasn't like a marquee player at the time, I don't think really it was kind of a he was a good talent developing and and that's why he kind of left it reminds me of me a bit of a big or hacking that a couple of players who moved to to Denmark, the twins,
00:36:37
Speaker
Joel Anderson moved to Rosenberg. But yeah, similar kind of thing that when I was actually out in Sweden at the time, they were a bit like and they were really, there was a lot of talk about them and they were quite highly rated, but there was always a realization that they'd move on the landscape change. Now, how can I have completely grown since then? I've gone on and won the league for the first time in their history. But it is a similar feeling to that in terms of where Carl's casted. But just on Bergman Anderson there, Henry, you're totally right in the sense that he was like a marquee player really for that, for not only
00:37:06
Speaker
Norshipping, I think, but also Ozfensk, and he was one who was really... He reminded me a bit of Frank Lampard, and I think one of the things that, just to touch on, you've described him really well as a player, but his mentality, and that was the thing that always stood out to me, and that's why the move to Denmark never really surprised me in the sense he turned down, I think, I think he turned down Juventus at one point when he was coming through, and I remember Jonathan Levi, who's one of his team, we used to be one of his teammates, said,
00:37:34
Speaker
that there's not many 17 year olds you get who are so focused and serious about football and I remember like some interviews he'd given where he's kind of saying that he's got a plan for his career he's got a pathway he wants to make it in a careful way if you know what I mean you know they don't just want to go and take take the money a massive club without any kind of
00:37:51
Speaker
Maybe prospect of playing and that was impressed me with but many hands and so I think he's carefully planning his his career He had a great maturity about him about what he needs to improve and learn before he can even leave Sweden. So Yeah, it's interesting to sort of hear an update from your point of view in terms of where he is at the moment But I think one thing's for sure He's definitely got a good head on his shoulders in terms of and a seriousness to improve and realize where he is. I
00:38:13
Speaker
Hearing that reminds me a lot of Andreas Sheldrup who moved to Denmark as a teenager from Bode Glint and there was stories that he'd turned down Liverpool in doing that and he was very convinced he was going to make his name there.
00:38:27
Speaker
and kind of earned the move on his terms rather than just kind of, I don't know, taking the first big club that shows interest. And he was the outstanding player of the first half of this season and got a big move to Benfica. So I think that's a testament to the quality he's got. And I could see, if Johansson starts breaking into the first team, I could see him making a similar leap in the next sort of 12, 18 months.
00:38:51
Speaker
Yeah. And he's a player that I, obviously we had him on the show, didn't we? When you were in Denmark one time. We did indeed. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was fantastic too. Yeah. To get, to get him before he disappeared. That was this season, bizarrely. I said the other week, it feels like this season's gone on forever. Hard to think that was this season, but yeah, it was.
00:39:10
Speaker
There's a few players who have headed in the opposite direction, of course, a friend of the pod Vito, but also Victor Fischer, who was, you know, one of the kind of, feels like one of the top talents in European football at one point when he was at Ajax. There's Fellenius and also Michael Reigard. I'd be interested to know how are those guys getting on and do they look like they've taken to Swedish football?
00:39:35
Speaker
Yes, good timing to ask me that because obviously being out in Sweden recently, I saw two of them live, Felenius is at your garden now, I believe, if I'm thinking of the right Felenius, which I think I am. And Mikko Reagord's been an unbelievable signing. He's probably been one of the best signings of the last two years in Sweden.
00:39:53
Speaker
completely transformed Hackett into champions for the first time in their history. He's a brilliant midfield player who I'd say is almost too good for Sweden in a sense. I know he's a bit of a veteran now, but he was a crucial winner, pops up with assists, goals, fantastic player really. I really think he's a great talent. I didn't get to see him in Sweden actually, because he had a bit of an injury, but I've seen him play live before and yeah, he's a wonderful player. The other player that you mentioned,
00:40:23
Speaker
Victor Visha? Yeah, now that's an interesting story. He's not really having the best time of things at the moment. It's been a big, been actually one of the main talking points in Sweden this season in Oslo, it's kind of their trajectory and some of the signings they've made. There's been a lot of questions. Obviously I won't go into too much details on it, but he's definitely not stood out so far. I think both he and the club would probably be a little bit disappointed with how things have gone.
00:40:48
Speaker
He's such a massive name and such a big profile. I remember when he was young, he was really tipped, wanting to be like a superstar really. All you call currently is third from bottom, which is a massive obviously underachievement. There's a lot of pressure at the club for signings, who's led the signings, links with payments to agents and mysterious payments and things like that, mysterious signings.
00:41:12
Speaker
I think Fish has not played into that necessarily, that part of it, but he's just played into this feeling that Oikos recruitment hasn't really been right. There was an issue at the start of the season where he couldn't play, I think, on one of the artificial surfaces because obviously it doesn't really benefit him. I think body-wise, physically, a bit of a challenge for him. I know he's had injuries.
00:41:34
Speaker
I think he's a little bit harsh in a way, but because he's such a big star, there's a lot of attention on him and an expectation for him to perform immediately. I think he's played a hundred games for Ajax and FC Copenhagen, as you've mentioned there, Copenhagen. So there's that expectation that he'd come into Sweden and be a dominant player from day one. But he's been sort of in and out of the team. They have a new manager who's kind of left him out at times. And every time he's left out, it's a big talking point, like why isn't he playing and why aren't you playing him?
00:42:00
Speaker
when is he going to play and that kind of thing. So he's been a really interesting one. Obviously he's 28, I think now, so maybe going on 29. So he's getting to the sort of latter part of his career. And I'd like to think he will show everyone his qualities because he has had really good qualities, but might also be partly the environment. I think he's in a club at OE Core where there's a lot, there's been a lot of sort of older players signed. He plays into that kind of theme of like, they've signed a few older players who have come back.
00:42:27
Speaker
Not only not really impressed but struggle to get in team and obviously because of their big name big wage then that leads to the question marks and They have a relatively inexperienced manager. So it's all playing into a bit of a storm at our eco at the moment So that's been an interesting talking point in Sweden the season so far, but unfortunately for him it's not quite looking like it's worked out that signing as of speaking now and
00:42:52
Speaker
Yeah, it feels a bit like if I remember correctly, the end of his time at FC Copenhagen, where in a similar way, you know, when he was left out, there would be big stories about that. And he was obviously such a big name when he came back to Copenhagen, having played at Ajax, played in the Premier League for Middlesbrough, I believe. And so, yeah, it became a bit of a circus and he got a move to Belgium and don't think it really worked out there. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting to
Victor Fischer's Challenges at AIK
00:43:19
Speaker
see what his next move is. And I wonder whether
00:43:21
Speaker
He's obviously been at big clubs, I call it a huge club, same with FC Copenhagen. I wonder if maybe he needs to become a bit of a talisman, a middling team and feel the responsibility that comes with that again maybe.
00:43:37
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's that's the thing that all equal have. They've bought a lot of new players. Most of them are kind of a bit older in years. There's a few young sons they have. But, you know, they tend to be a club that goes for experience. John Gudetti is another one. They have Jimmy Dumas. Maybe they bring from maybe players who have been at much bigger clubs in the past.
00:43:57
Speaker
I think, I think from Fisher's point of view, it's one of those where he was probably expected to come in immediately and having the immediate impact. It's not just quite happened. And I think, I think I agree with you, but I guess it's a waste thing. You know, he's probably not going to go to like a lower, a lower level Swedish club, even if it would be better for his career in terms of just week in and week out games, just the difference in finances between perhaps what we call could afford and maybe a mid table. Well, I know they're at the bottom now, but
00:44:22
Speaker
You know what I mean? Kind of a reputationally smaller club could afford. So that's probably the problem with that type of player. And then it lends to questions of, you know, if he's getting that much money, why isn't he sort of performing? So it's almost self-fulfilling prophecy in a way if you don't hit the ground running. But there's no doubt there's a talent there. I think it's fitness reasons and things like that why he hasn't necessarily played every game and gone in firing.
00:44:48
Speaker
And it's also just partly the fact that there's a new manager. He had a bad start to the season. He's still probably trying to figure out his best team, his best lineup. And there's that pressure because he's that big name that they've sort of got on the season long alone. So we'll see how it goes. But I have to say, I probably worry for how that signing is going to pan out at this moment in time because it's just not quite clicked.
00:45:12
Speaker
And you mentioned artificial pitches there, and this is a topic I have an unusual fascination of, I think perhaps just because it feels so far removed from the Premier League that I've sort of grown up on. And when I was speaking with Vito, he mentioned that
00:45:29
Speaker
it really doesn't like the artificial surfaces. And you know, in the Super League, there's two teams that play with them. But in Sweden, you know, it's, it's pretty much half or maybe more. Speaking to players and coaches and managers and stuff like that, how big a deal is it the fact that it's artificial pitches?
00:45:46
Speaker
Yeah, I think it is quite a big deal. I think when you follow the league, you almost accept it really, if you know what I mean. But there is a split between grass pitches and artificial services. But I think sometimes you almost underestimate the impact it can have on home form versus away form.
00:46:03
Speaker
And it's definitely something that you have to factor in I think when you're looking at games and trying to sort of maybe predict them or figure out how they're going to pan out just due to the fact that the surfaces are quite difficult. Sometimes there's players that can't play certain games just because of the fact that it just doesn't suit their body.
00:46:20
Speaker
So, yeah, it's definitely always an active conversation. I think it's just partly due to the region, isn't it, Henry? Just the weather and the climate, it's kind of a necessity. But yeah, like you said, from an English background and perspective, it's something you don't really think about. Yeah, for sure. Although I would have thought playing through the summer, you know, you get the best possible weather that the region is going to get. It could probably stretch to a few more grass pitches, couldn't they?
00:46:46
Speaker
Yeah, I would have thought so. I mean, in the UK, from a non-lead point of view, it's often done because of the community. It's often done because then you can have a weather surface that can play at any time. It's easier to maintain and then you can commercialise it.
00:47:02
Speaker
So we are seeing that in sort of the lower leagues of England to a certain extent in the non leagues. So that's always a, you know, there's a rise of artificial pitches actually below the football league in England. And sometimes people question that as well. And I'm probably a bit of a traditionalist in wanting maybe grass pitches, but I suppose even in England that climate can be an issue and just that commercial aspect is easier to profit from it.
00:47:24
Speaker
If you look at FC Nordsland, for example, who play on an artificial surface, it allows them to train at the stadium. So I think that that can be an advantage if you look at their home form this season. They look very comfortable playing there, and that probably helps. So there are pros and cons, but I know from personal experience, playing on Astro is definitely harder on the knees. And I guess when you're getting to the end of your career, that's probably more of an issue than it would be for the whippersnappers
00:47:52
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. But I think even younger players, they can struggle with it. Like you said, it's a lot more of an issue than sometimes we think about, if you know what I mean, especially in an English perspective, I think. It's definitely something that can, like you said, the impact on the body is significantly harder.
00:48:10
Speaker
it does have I think quite a high factor in determining games I mean you often look at when you're looking at matches things like weather how that could impact the match you know if it's raining or if it's dry surface things like that I think I think you could argue that the actual pitch what it's made out of is almost bigger than that.
Rise of New Competitors in Swedish Football
00:48:28
Speaker
In Denmark FC Copenhagen have won five titles in 10 years there have been three different title winners in the past three years which I think has
00:48:36
Speaker
has shown the kind of good health of the league. But there have been accusations in the past that recently it was becoming a bit of a one team league in terms of one team having much more financial muscle to dominate. I know Hacken won the league last season, but I think I'm right in saying Malmo have six titles in 10 years. Is it a similar situation there where they've got themselves into a position where they can get the European money more years than not, and that's kind of skewing the league? It was to a point.
00:49:05
Speaker
but of recent and recent years where we're in a good period and where it's not not been the case. We've had, I think since I've started the podcast, we've had multiple different champions actually, or you call won the league, you're gone and won the league, but I can just won the league for the first time in their history last season. So there has been a team challenging, which has been really good.
00:49:25
Speaker
and although now it's looking like Malmo for example last year was the big talking point in Sweden really just their demise had the worst season they'd had in sort of 15 to 20 years finished seventh really had no European football for them this season which is almost unthinkable they went through three managers and it was just really I think a season they'd probably rather forget
00:49:44
Speaker
they seem to have reorganized themselves now picking up the best manager probably in the league from Kalmar and he's now got them six points clear at the top more or less and six points clear of hacking anyway i'm not sure how they're depending on results tonight so they are sort of getting back to it and there is that worry that obviously without those finances once if they win the league again there's always that worry when the big a big team like that is kind of dominating that oh is this going to be a dynasty but i think that one thing about swedish football at the moment and probably norway as well is like the
00:50:14
Speaker
And I'd be interested to hear your point of view on this in terms of Denmark, but because of the just general increase in quality of the leagues, youth players, youth development I think is really, there's a lot of talents flourishing. I think that's allowed other clubs to just get a lot more finances and they're not having to sell to like say the top team. So one thing for example in Germany that you have is always
00:50:36
Speaker
you know, buy and tend to sort of eat their own, don't they? They tend to sort of take the best players in Germany from the competing clubs, which is always an issue. Whereas now for lower teams in in Sweden, they have the option to sell not to Malmo, who have the most money or, you know, the teams with the bigger finances, they can sell to a Belgium, a Denmark, a, you know, a Turkey or something like that. So that's allowed teams like, you know, we talked about Norshop and just then Berg money, Anderson.
00:51:06
Speaker
they made a lot of money from him. I think it was 4 million euros. They sold players at Samuel Eddig Benro for a good chunk. They've made a lot of profit over the past few years selling players even to Russia before obviously the situation out there. And that allows them then, if you use that money well, to generate. And that's what Beko Hakan did. You know, they've got the Gothea Park, obviously Academy, and the Gothea Cup.
00:51:27
Speaker
which is a world famous youth tournament in Gothenburg. But they've also bought and sold really quite cleverly in the last sort of five to ten years. So that money that they've generated, then they've spent it wisely and that's allowed them to grow the club into a team that has won the league. And they played Malmo at the weekend, went toe to toe in their own stadium and got a 2-2 draw, didn't look out of place.
00:51:51
Speaker
Yeah, there is always that. There's one, a couple of traditional powerhouses. I think the Stockholm teams would say something about that. I mean, EF Korjotoburg are a powerhouse in Swedish football, but they've been in the doldrums. Now they're second to their city rivals hacking, as I mentioned, who are the champions. IFK Gothenburg, historically a massive, massive team.
00:52:10
Speaker
There are those traditional powers, but i think there is a good level of competitiveness in Swedish football. There's about four or five i'd say clubs who would consider themselves you know should be looking to win titles and that lends itself to some competitive leagues. We had one league season about three four years ago that went to the last day between i think three or four teams could have won the league on the last day which was really an incredible end to a season.
00:52:33
Speaker
So that's one good thing about it. It's not been too bad in the years I've covered the league anyway. Yeah. And if I look at the Danish league this season, you know, FC Nordsland, it's certainly not short of money because they've worked out how to sell directly to the big leagues. And I think that's probably one area where Denmark has pulled away from everyone else in Scandinavia at the moment that they're selling now direct to the Premier League, direct to Ligue 1.
00:53:03
Speaker
And I think that they're able to command bigger fees as a result, you know, Victor Christiansen to Leicester for 15 million, Kamaldine Suleiman of 15 million to Ligue 1, Jonas Wind sold to the Bundesliga, Jesper Lindstrom the same. So I think that that talent pipeline is that they're managing to skip the middleman in Belgium, which is definitely helping them. But yeah, looking at the league this season, you've got two teams fighting out at the top one point between them and Copenhagen have almost
00:53:31
Speaker
They've been known in the past as being the team that has the biggest financial muscle, but they've really put a lot of work into their academy and are bringing players through now, guys like, as we talked about, Rooney Badaji, but Elie Siela, Victor Christensen. And on the flip side, FC Norjland have been a team that have always focused on their talent pipeline and their academy.
00:53:51
Speaker
and now they're managing to receive some big transfer fees and it's going to be interesting to see if they alter their strategy and maybe this summer put some of that money to use and sign some more high profile players. So yeah, it's definitely going to be interesting to see how that pans out.
00:54:08
Speaker
Before we wrap I've got two more questions for you. One is about we talked about players who've moved from Denmark to Sweden but we actually haven't talked about a particular manager. I wanted to ask you how is Marti Cifuentes doing, a former outboard manager now at Hamaby?
Martí Cifuentes' Journey with Hammarby
00:54:24
Speaker
Yeah, well, there's good links between the two leagues from that point of view. You've got Henry Jensen, who's a caliber at the moment, Danish manager. You've got, as I mentioned, Glenn Riddas-Harmon, Norschuklingen. And so for instance, there's another one who's in the Swedish league right now. He's at Hamaby. Again, not had a best of starts to this campaign. He had a really good start to his time in charge last season. They looked like they'd be the dominant force and looked like they challenged for the title in Malmo's sort of demise.
00:54:54
Speaker
But they got to a point sort of mid to middle late season, about two-thirds of the way through there where they just kind of almost ran out of ideas really and really struggled and it cost them the title in the end. They were close to going for the title and really I think they probably reflected in hindsight. They could have been the hacking of that season. I think they let that title slip a little bit. Not necessarily
00:55:18
Speaker
They weren't expected to win it or anything, but they had started so well and they were really entertaining to watch. He brought in quite a nice style. He had made use of some of the players that they had who maybe hadn't been doing so well maybe. He got the best out, for example, Nahir Basara, who was fantastic last season, and a few others.
00:55:37
Speaker
But this season, I mean, Hamby is one of the teams I mentioned where sometimes I wonder if the aim of the club is maybe just to sort of make profit as well to a certain extent, because they always have quite a big squad, a lot of young talents there. Really good if you want to see some young players.
00:55:53
Speaker
I think this season they're a little bit almost skewing slightly too young and they've got almost too many new players. So they've had quite a tough start this season. They're currently kind of mid-table and just looking to re-establish themselves after a bad start. Had a decent draw this weekend just gone against the FQE autobog away. But yeah, they're 10th at the moment and I think they probably would be expecting to do slightly better. So he's shown he's a bright manager. He's shown he's got good ideas.
00:56:17
Speaker
He's he communicates. Well, I think he understands Swedish because I've seen him doing interviews where he answers in English But it takes the question in Swedish. So hmm from that point of view I think you know as a Spanish manager, of course, and that's very multilingual So yeah, he he's a bright manager. Definitely one of the brightest and I think it's just a case of can he Get them over the line and get some silverware. They're a bit spursy and if that makes sense They kind of got that reputation and have a B of like they think they never
00:56:44
Speaker
They're one of the three big Stockholm teams, but they're always considered the ugly brother, if that makes sense, of the family. So I think they've only won one title in the history of one or two. From that point of view, it's quite hard to get it over the line, if you know what I mean. They're not a team that's expected maybe to win titles year in, year out, despite a really big fan base. But he's done a good job.
00:57:03
Speaker
Got it. Yeah, I really liked him at Alborg, so good to know that he's still in the job and still working towards something. The final question I wanted to ask is around showpiece event. So if anyone asks me, like, what's the game to go to in Danish folk? There's lots of great Darby's, I would say, AGF, Bronby, Michelin against Vyborg, but really,
00:57:26
Speaker
It's the Copenhagen Derby is this kind of the thing I'll say if you're going to watch one game go to that and then build from there. What's the equivalent in Sweden? If you had to pick one fixture and said this is the one that you need to go to to sell you on Swedish football, what would
The Excitement of Stockholm Derbies
00:57:42
Speaker
it be?
00:57:42
Speaker
Yeah, as a Gothenburg man, I'd probably have to admit it's a Stockholm Derby. There's a lot of decent diopies in Sweden. You've got obviously Malmo Helsingborg, who Helsingborg at one point were a traditional big club down there.
00:57:58
Speaker
in Scanner. They're now kind of in the second tier and it's not as big. It's still passionate, but it's not as, you know, it's not kind of titles decided on it. Obviously, here at Coyote Burger, they've got a lot of Gothenburg rivals. Now, with Hackens Rise, that's become a bit of a big derby. But of course, Hackens traditionally were quite a small team. I mean, going back sort of 10, 20 years, they were, they're not a traditionally huge team. So I think you have to look to the Stockholm clubs.
00:58:23
Speaker
I'd say the big ones are A.I.K. against New York Garden, A.I.K. obviously Hammer B and then New York Garden Hammer B, they're the three that you'd probably say try and get to. I've never actually been to a Stockholm diamond myself but it's always, you've always got sort of 30 to 40 thousand in the stadium, really passionate atmosphere, you know Henry what it's like with these leagues like Tfos and
00:58:43
Speaker
Flares and smoke bombs you can expect it all and often often those diabetes are actually pause for the first five ten minutes just to clear the smoke so Always passionate and there's always everything you could expect from a big derby if there's one sort of maybe non city rivalry based sort of a heated match
00:59:00
Speaker
And it's a game I've been lucky enough to go to. I'd say EFKOR Jotoburg, FK Gothenburg against Malmö. They're two of the most successful teams in English, sorry, in Swedish football history. And that's always considered like a big game. They don't really like each other. There's always big fan bases between the two of them. So it's always that's always a passionate affair. But yeah, I'd say if you were just going to go to one, I'd have to say one of the Stockholm Diaries, probably AIK Jurgen as the two more successful teams in Stockholm.
00:59:29
Speaker
Interesting. That's great. I was going to put you on the spot as to which, which Stockholm Derby. So I'm glad that you, I'm glad you got off the fence to pick one. There's also the battle of the bridge, which is when Malmo and FC Copenhagen play each other. I know that's a feisty affair that occurred a few years back. And it doesn't sound like that's going to happen next season, but maybe the season after we'll get that back. And that could be,
00:59:54
Speaker
a chance to renew hostilities we nearly had it last year i think then we if if uh i think we nearly had it in europe at one point yeah i think that's right actually but um didn't happen for whatever reason their game i think they got knocked out but if that i think they would have played fc copenhagen
01:00:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's right. That would have been great. But listen, thank you so much for giving up your time, Jonathan. And it's a huge, huge pleasure to have you on here. I think that we probably have enough topics that we could do a part two at some point in the future, but maybe we'll wait for a Danish team and a Swedish team to get each other in Europe and theme it around that. But yeah, it's been a great pleasure having you on and thank you for doing it. Yeah, it was a pleasure to sit down with you, my friend. So no problem at all. And thanks for inviting me. And as I said, glad to see the podcast going so well.
01:00:43
Speaker
Welcome to part two, and we're gonna pick through some of round 30 Super League action from last weekend because there was no shortage of drama. Now, when I was doing my Twitter previews of the game, I said that I thought that FC Copenhagen, AGF had the potential to be box office, and boy did it deliver on that. It finished 4-3 to FC Copenhagen, but what a dramatic game this was. Two early goals from Diogo Goncalves. There was a penalty, which,
01:01:11
Speaker
to say the angle that was shown for the first few times, it didn't look obvious, but then when you saw the reverse angle and you saw the stamp on the on the ankle by Bisak, it was nailed on. And Goncalves scored a fantastic second goal, latching on to the end of some great work by Jelle. And Tunil up in the first half, it looked like they were home and hosed pretty much, they were cruising. And out of nowhere, AGF pulled off
01:01:37
Speaker
pretty amazing comeback. Patrick Mortensen scoring a header, Mikael Anderson scoring, and then going into the second half, six, seven minutes into the second half, Kevin Yakob put them ahead. And so from 2-0 down, they were 3-2 up and AGF really looked to have the momentum. Obviously FC Copenhagen had gone through the cup final on the Thursday. And so with that came perhaps some heavy legs. I don't think they will have over celebrated that. I think they'll have stayed on the regime. I think the league is
01:02:07
Speaker
so much more important than the cup but they did look leggy at that point and I thought AGF looked like they're gonna score a fourth more than Copenhagen score an equalizer but come with the hour come with the man and the man for this game was Kevin Dix unquestionably and he was playing centre back so again out of his favoured role
01:02:26
Speaker
And he was, he found himself in the left half space and he played an absolutely sensational through ball with the outside of his foot that just bent round the defender into the path of Jordan Larson. And the Swedish striker just slammed it home and at 3-0 you felt that was the shot in the arm that Copenhagen needed. And they took up the momentum from there and it was Kevin Dix himself who scored the winner on the 86th minute.
01:02:52
Speaker
see just what this meant to him. Former AGF player must be said and he's been in and out of the team all season. He's never complained. He's played out of position. He's done what's needed to be and this felt like just reward for his efforts and I felt bad for AGF because I thought they battled really hard in this game. I thought that nine times out of ten they'd have probably come away from this with a point. There was a chance earlier as well where Michael Anderson hit the underside of the bar so I thought
01:03:21
Speaker
it was very hard on AGF but at the same time to win the league these are the sorts of games that you need to come through and you need to find that strength and adversity and FC Copenhagen at 3-2 down you know the heads could have dropped there and they could have thought it's over but they came back and they pulled off the three points and yeah that was
01:03:41
Speaker
Arguably one of the most entertaining games, if not the most entertaining game of the season so far. Two very high quality sides going at it. And yeah, great advert for the league. If you haven't watched it, go on the Super League website and at least watch the highlights because it was certainly worth it. The next twist in the title race took place on Monday night where FC Nordsland were hosting runners and going into this game, FC Copenhagen were top of the table with 30 games played, 55 points on the board.
01:04:09
Speaker
Norjland went into this on 51 points, but 29 games played. So a chance to reduce the gap to one point with a victory against runners.
01:04:19
Speaker
NFC Northland really came out of the blocks firing. They put a lot of pressure on runners. They played some great football. They were playing it out from the back and eventually got the breakthrough through Benjamin Negron, a guy who, as we talked about with Jonathan, hasn't really had many chances starting games and took his opportunity really nicely. There was quite a lengthy VAR check to see where the bid strip was offside. It looked touch and go, but the goal was given.
01:04:45
Speaker
And at that point, you wondered whether FC Norjaland would just go into cruise control. But pretty soon afterwards, they gave away a silly penalty, Svensson pushing Odie in the back and gave away a penalty with Ranners not really having a chance before that point. And Jønsen scored from the spot. And soon after, actually, in the beginning of the second half, Ranners had an amazing chance to go ahead. But Kian Hansen,
01:05:07
Speaker
putting a superb sliding challenge to deny bun guards. And that was really all rounders had after that. Benjamin Negrin again worked a really nice opportunity, got a shot away and didn't see it in real time. But on the replay, it looked pretty obvious. A penalty was given after VAR for it for a handball. Nuama scored the penalty and the pick of the bunch was probably the third goal, actually. Diamandé won the ball in midfield on the 82nd minute, burst forwards, kept going.
01:05:34
Speaker
and got on the end of a low cross by Villas and so he kind of made the goal and scored it and on reflection the game was pretty one-sided. I think the score line perhaps flatters Ranners because there was 73% possession for FC Nordsland, 11 shots to one from Ranners and 703 passes to 259 so they really imposed their style on Ranners.
01:05:57
Speaker
And I think that the coach will be very pleased with what he saw. There was lots of nice technical football, lots of, as I said, playing out from the back. And I thought that it was a real showpiece performance for them. And it puts them in a fantastic position ahead of the final two rounds really with all to play for. So it's going to be amazing to see how they get on from here. At the bottom of the table, there was no points whatsoever. In fact, even no goals between the three relegation candidates that Horsons played Silkerborg on the Friday night.
01:06:28
Speaker
and they went down 1-0, and it was a brutal blow for them, the goal going in in the second minute of added time in the second half, and had to then cast an eye on the other teams in the relegation battle and hope that they slipped up, and slipped up they did. Lungbi were defeated very heavily at home, 4-0 against Odintse, and Alborg, without Alen Sousa, went down 2-0 at home to FC Michelin, who now more or less have that European playoff spot wrapped up, it looks like,
01:06:56
Speaker
And so the teams at the bottom remain separated by three points. Loongby bottom of the table with 24 Horsons above them on 27, and then Aalborg just outside the relegation zone on goal difference alone on 27 points. So the drama there is just postponed to the next two rounds. And what do we have coming up next week? Of course, Loongby Aalborg.
01:07:18
Speaker
an absolutely massive, massive game. Lungbi need to win that to have any chance of survival. I think if Alborg win, they're almost safe. Just given the number of points per game teams are picking up at that end of the table. I think, yeah, Lungbi have to win that if they want to survive and Horsons go to Odintse. That's not going to be an easy game for them. And that's the Friday game. The one game we haven't talked about yet was Viborg
01:07:46
Speaker
against Brumbi and this was one where I think most people were expecting Viborg to grab the three points here but it certainly didn't go easily for them. Hakon Evian scored for Brumbi and going into the final 10 minutes it looked like they might come away with an unlikely victory at a place where many teams have struggled this season. But Clint Lehman's so often an attacking force for Viborg popped up in the 80th minute. Lovely cross by Jepic running.
01:08:14
Speaker
and Lehman's headed home and that was that one all. That point doesn't do much for Viborg in the title race. I think there was still an outside chance that they could contend for the title. I think now five points back with two games to go, I think that's unlikely. But
01:08:31
Speaker
they're in a very good position for either the silver or the bronze medal and a place in Europe next season, which in the cold light of day is a fantastic return for a team of their budget, especially given the players they've lost. So decent result for V-Borg and they'll be looking forward to the remaining two fixtures where they are going to play the role of Kingmaker. They play FC Copenhagen and FC Nordsland and so
01:08:56
Speaker
how they perform in those games could still be absolutely pivotal to the direction of the title race. So some exciting games coming up. I can only assume that it's a it's a bank holiday in Denmark. I know it's one in the UK because we've got a game on Friday, which as I mentioned, was OB against Horsons. And then we've got a bunch of games on Monday. So Sickleborg against FC Michelin, Lungbe Alborg, Viborg,
01:09:24
Speaker
FC Copenhagen and Grombe against FC Nordsland. And then on Tuesday it's Rana's AGF. So two more rounds of Super League action. Plenty more twists and turns and crazy really going into the final two rounds that nothing's decided. None of the key things are decided. Relegation, not a single team down yet.
01:09:45
Speaker
Champions still to potentially three teams who could win it. European playoff. Nope, not decided. So it's all up for grabs. And I think that's what makes it so exciting. So buckle up for the final two rounds. And I look forward to speaking to you next time on Danish Dynamike and actually on that regard.
01:10:03
Speaker
There will be one more podcast this season I'm pleased to announce and it will be after the season has wrapped before the Euro playoff. So the episode should be coming out on or around Wednesday.
01:10:18
Speaker
the 7th of June. And I've got a special episode planned where I've got a couple of guests. We're gonna do an end of season award show, bunch of different categories, and we're going to decide on our team of the season, decide who the manager of the season is and all sorts of different categories. So come back and join us. First week of June, that's gonna be that special end of season wrap up. In the meantime, take it easy, enjoy the bank holiday, and I'll speak to you next time.