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E162: Claudia Lawrence
6.4k Plays3 years ago
The investigation into Claudia Lawrence’s disappearance first appeared as though it would be one that could be quickly solved. But one very public comment by police changed the course of the investigation into one in which no one seemed to want to get involved. It is a case of video footage and DNA… but no answers.
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Transcript
The Value of Human Life and Media Bias
00:00:00
Speaker
One of the most important things we discuss on this show, one of the most important messages I hope we convey to all of our listeners is the equal value of each and every life.
00:00:13
Speaker
it is something that is sorely lacking in media coverage. We've briefly discussed it here on the show before, how sad it is that some cases get national and even global media attention to help push for justice and others are swept under the rug and get all of three newspaper articles about them.
00:00:34
Speaker
Recently, I discovered the website rupressworthy.com in hopes of exposing that media bias when reporting missing persons cases, coverage that is affected by factors like age, race, gender, sexual orientation, and location. I found that I am only quote unquote worth 15 news stories.
00:01:00
Speaker
A maximum of 30.9% of Americans would hear about me if I were to go missing. Seeing that just reaffirmed in me the passion for why we do what we do here on the show. Do we sometimes cover the more high profile cases? Yes.
00:01:18
Speaker
But our mission is to shine the spotlight on the cases you've never heard about. The cases for which there are only three news articles. The cases where the families are left wondering why their child is somehow less worthy of media coverage than someone else's child. And the cases that for one reason or another, people have decided to overlook or dismiss.
00:01:43
Speaker
It's our goal to give all families exposure and in some cases to set the record straight in terms of the victim blaming. That also unfortunately happens in our media today.
The Case of Claudia Lawrence
00:01:56
Speaker
The victim at the center of our case this week was a young Caucasian heterosexual woman
00:02:02
Speaker
from Malton, North Yorkshire in the UK. And her case did garner much national publicity within the United Kingdom. The coverage she received should have meant a swift resolution because of the attention. And it appeared at first that this might be a case that would be solved within days. That is, until the media flipped on her.
00:02:27
Speaker
and switched the narrative, making anyone with information about the crime scared to come forward out of fear of their names also being smeared. This is the case of Claudia Lawrence.
00:02:57
Speaker
Oh.
00:03:17
Speaker
Welcome to coffee and cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Alison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:03:36
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. In March 2009, Claudia Lawrence had just recently on February 27th celebrated her 35th birthday.
00:04:05
Speaker
And Claudia was a chef who had worked her way through many kitchens before landing a job at the University of York's Goodrick College.
00:04:16
Speaker
and moving to Hayworth in 2007, where she bought a home there, a little cottage, not far from her job. So she's, you know, doing the adult stuff, settling down, getting the job that she wants. Both of her parents, Dad Peter and Mom Joan, lived close
00:04:38
Speaker
even though they had divorced years earlier. They both lived fairly close. And Claudia herself was very close to the both of them and to her sister, Allie, who was three years older than Claudia. Yeah, so she seems like she's got adult life figured out so far. Yeah. Lucky for Claudia, when she moved to her new home that was away from her parents, she was very social and she made friends extremely easily.
00:05:07
Speaker
She found this local pub called the Nags Head, which was only about four doors down from her home.
00:05:16
Speaker
and she would frequently spend her evenings meeting up with friends or making new ones there. So I am really intrigued by life in the UK because you know obviously I've never been there. Anthony and I are planning like a Western European trip in the year 2024 and we will be going just to London but I think all of their
00:05:41
Speaker
Just the way that they live sounds so different from here. Like, I don't have a little cottage with a pub that's four doors down for me. I feel like their life is just so almost kind of magical. Like, I feel like you could walk to the bakery and get some bread and then walk to like the deli to get your maid. Whereas we go to like Kroger. Right. I know. Yeah, it's just it does feel a lot more quaint.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yes. And you know, I'll talk about it here in a bit, but it is very different because like when I studied in England, you really you walk everywhere. So it's not it's not like here where you kind of have to, you know, hop in your car and
00:06:34
Speaker
drive somewhere, you know, in order to get somewhere, you do just kind of, you just walk there. I think that sounds nice. So this is like four, four doors down from where Claudia lived. And it is so cute. Like it literally looks so quaint. So it says, you know, like great food, you know, it's got flowers outside. Like it's just a little,
00:07:03
Speaker
you know, local pub. And Claudia was single. So she did often meet other single friends there and maybe flirted with a few men there. But you know, she's single, like this is the perfect spot. And as most any young woman who needs to stay in touch with the world, she was described as someone who was attached to her phone.
00:07:28
Speaker
She loved talking to and catching up with her friends either through conversation or text. And she was a social butterfly. She seemed to get along with everybody. She also was enjoying her job, except for maybe the hours.
00:07:48
Speaker
So while she would get off work around two in the afternoon from her chef job, she had to be at work by 6 a.m. Oh, that's early. Mm hmm.
Claudia's Disappearance and Initial Investigation
00:07:59
Speaker
Claudia was never late, but she would come rolling in there about two minutes to six. Same. That's how I would be as well. I cannot blame her for that one.
00:08:10
Speaker
However, in the past three weeks when this case takes place, getting to work on time had become just a little bit harder since her car was in the shop. So that meant walking the roughly three miles to work.
00:08:27
Speaker
That's a pretty good trick. That is a pretty good piece. So that was hard, not only because of the physical exertion. I mean, that alone would be enough for me where I would be like, I got to figure out, I got to buy a bike. I got to do something. But also because it meant having to get up and leave the house even earlier than before. So she would need to leave around 5.15 a.m. to start walking in order to make it to work by six.
00:08:57
Speaker
I would be so angry. Oh, yeah. I'd be like, how much longer till you can get this car? Versus when she had her car, it was only about a 10 minute drive to work.
00:09:10
Speaker
Wow. And so because she was having to get up earlier, she had taken to going to bed on most nights just a little bit earlier than usual also, like around 9pm or so. So, you know, that early morning alarm clock wouldn't be quite so difficult to manage. And other than a few late nights thrown into the mix, she was managing pretty well.
00:09:36
Speaker
On March 18th, 2009, the day started like so many days before. Claudia had walked to work that morning, getting there just in the nick of time for her 6 a.m. start time at the Goodrick College Roger Kirk Center. She worked a full day and left at just a bit past two, again on foot.
00:10:03
Speaker
So everything normal so far. After walking part of the way home, a friend of Claudia saw her and stopped and said, hey, do you want me to drive you the rest of the way home? And I'm sure that was a welcomed gesture.
00:10:18
Speaker
Oh, I'm sure because something I hadn't thought about was the weather when it's still kind of chilly in March and the UK gets a lot of rain. Yeah, so I'm sure that was I would have been so grateful to that friend, you know, offering me a lift home. So Claudia got home on the 18th around 250.
00:10:38
Speaker
At close to 3 p.m., she left her home walking down the street and she was seen on CCTV footage and by one of her neighbors as she passed by a shop in Melrose Gate near her house. She had actually been going to mail a letter. She was again caught on CCTV footage walking back toward her home
00:11:03
Speaker
around 3 10 p.m. and this is what I was saying all this walking might seem strange to those of us especially those of us who live in rural America but Claudia lived just outside of the city center so it wouldn't have been out of the norm to walk to mail a letter stop by a shop and the like and this is what I was saying when I studied abroad in England during college
00:11:28
Speaker
in Oxford, I walked to the post office, I walked to get food, I walked to the library, I walked to the shops, I walked to all of my classes. And I mean, these, I was walking miles a day. So you walk, there were even pedestrian streets, where it's only for pedestrians, which it sounds crazy to us here. Yeah, yeah.
00:11:56
Speaker
Because we drive, well, gosh, if I'm in a parking lot, you know, of a shopping center and I'm at one end and I'm like, oh, I need to go to the shop on the other end. I'm like, let me just hop back in the car and drive down there instead of walking it. And I'm like, picturing where I live is about three miles away, probably from Kroger. And I'm thinking how many times I've just said,
00:12:23
Speaker
to quickly hop in my car and go to Kroger because I need milk or whatever and imagine having to walk that. I guess if you're more cognizant of each one of your trips when you're walking that far versus taking the five minutes to drive it. Right, exactly.
00:12:39
Speaker
Now on this day, once Claudia got home this time at around 3.10, it seemed she was there to stay. She spoke with several people on the phone over the course of the next few hours, and she actually had made a few plans for the coming days.
00:12:55
Speaker
Claudia had called up her dad, Peter, and made plans for Friday the 20th to meet him at the Nags Head so that they could visit with one another. And because of the proximity, the Nags Head Pub was a central feature in many of the locals' lives because it was close. It had a good atmosphere. It's just a nice place to hang out with friends. So she made plans with her dad. So this was on a Wednesday. So she said, hey, on Friday, let's get together and go to the Nags Head.
00:13:25
Speaker
Then around 8.15 p.m., Claudia phoned her mom, Joan. The television show, Location, Location, Location was on, and that was a show that both of them loved. Her mom could actually hear it in the background while they were talking. So they chatted a bit about the show, about life, and then they too went ahead and made some plans to celebrate Mother's Day.
00:13:52
Speaker
Now, our American listeners might be a little bit confused because we celebrate Mother's Day in May. However, in the UK, it is celebrated in March. And in 2009, Mother's Day was just a few days away, because this day I'm talking about is March 18th, and Mother's Day was on Sunday, March 22nd. So they were making plans about what they wanted to do on Mother's Day.
00:14:20
Speaker
Her mom later reported that when she talked to Claudia that night, she was her happy self. She seemed normal. She seemed relaxed. Like I said, they were watching that show that they both loved. Claudia was also texting friends on that evening of the 18th with a last text being sent by her at 8 23 p.m.
00:14:46
Speaker
Most sources said to her friend Susie, though one other source I saw said that it was to another friend, Jen, who received the text. But because most of them said Susie, I'm going to assume that it was sent to her friend Susie. And they were also making plans to meet at the nags head. But this time a little bit earlier, they were going to meet there that very next night on the 19th.
00:15:10
Speaker
And Susie was one of Claudia's best friends. The two were so close that Susie said they used to call each other sister or they would call each other sledge, like sister sledge. So they would sign things like notes to each other, love sister or hey sledge. And the two of them were looking forward to getting together just, you know, to hang out.
00:15:35
Speaker
Claudia also received a text at 9, 12 p.m., but it's unclear whether she read it since there wasn't, she didn't send a response. But remember, I mean, with that super early alarm clock, you know, about to go off at 5 a.m. or before if she had to get ready, depending on how long it took her, Claudia would often try to be in bed by around nine or just a little bit after. So we don't know if she saw it.
00:16:03
Speaker
I'm a little anxious to hear how investigators are going to spin this case to make Claudia, I'm guessing this is what you meant. Claudia look bad because right now she just seems like a normal woman. Right. You'll see. 6 AM on Thursday, March 19th rolled around quickly, but as the clock ticked past Claudia's start time,
00:16:33
Speaker
She hadn't shown up for work.
00:16:36
Speaker
Perhaps thinking that maybe Claudia had overslept since Claudia was typically very responsible and was never late, her manager called her a couple of hours into her shift when Claudia still hadn't shown up. So I think I get the sense that maybe at first she was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, like, oh, maybe something happened. She got held up. You know, she's running late. She overslept. And so it was actually several hours into her shift when the manager called.
00:17:06
Speaker
But the manager's call went to voicemail. Did the manager attempt to call anyone else like a friend or family member? No. That evening, remember
00:17:20
Speaker
the 823 text with the friend Susie about meeting up at the nags head. So Claudia's friend Susie shows up at the nags head to meet up like they had planned. But instead of catching up with her friend, Susie found herself waiting and waiting for Claudia. She sent Claudia a text, something to the effect of, how could you stand me up? But didn't get a response.
00:17:48
Speaker
And honestly, that doesn't sound like Claudia. She likes her friends. So I would think if she wasn't going to be there, she would let Susie know. Right. I would think so too. Susie later tried calling Claudia, but her phone went straight to voicemail at this point. So it didn't even ring.
00:18:08
Speaker
One of the barmaids, Jen, remember, she's the one that one of the sources said the phone call could have been Jen. She was a mutual friend of both Susie and Claudia. And she also tried calling Claudia and it too went
00:18:24
Speaker
straight to voicemail. So the three of them, Claudia, Susie, and Jen, according to an article for the BBC by Alex Moss, were a close-knit trio. So they were always calling or texting one another about, you know, new things going on in their lives or when they wanted to vent about something. And the three of them actually met at the nag's head all the time. In fact, one of the sources I read said that Jen had even lived with Claudia for a few months. So if she were going to
00:18:54
Speaker
answer someone's phone calls. It would have been these two. Yeah.
00:18:59
Speaker
And what the two of them said that they loved most about Claudia as a friend was how easygoing she was. In fact, Jen told Moss for that BBC article, quote, she liked to buy a new top now and again, go to the pub, see her horse, listen to music. She didn't desire the grand things in life. She just wanted a nice sunshine holiday and to have a tan. End quote. Aw. Yeah.
00:19:28
Speaker
And I love that, you know, people who are just happy with the little things. So again, you can tell kind of how close it seemed the three were. So it was very odd that Claudia wasn't responding to either of them. I hope that they contact the parents. Well, they do, but not yet.
00:19:51
Speaker
And I can imagine that both Susie and Jen likely beat themselves up over it now. We always talk about the mental damage caused by the What If game. But I'm sure Susie is upset that she didn't walk the four doors down to check on Claudia.
00:20:16
Speaker
Oh yeah. I forgot how close her house was. So she was thinking Claudia did stand her up. It would have just been a very quick walk to walk to her house and be like, why are you not down here when you told me to meet you here? What's going on? So, but Susie didn't walk the four doors down. She didn't knock on the door to see if Claudia's home or anything, nor did Jen go to check on Claudia after her shift ended.
00:20:42
Speaker
Instead, Susie told reporters that she had just assumed that Claudia had fallen asleep. Yeah. And maybe she didn't charge her phone. So Susie enjoyed her time at the nags head and then went home. The next morning on Friday, March 20th, Susie again tried to call Claudia.
00:21:05
Speaker
the phone again went straight to voicemail. And we've only we've not spoken to her since the 18th, correct? Correct. Okay. And remember, I told you Claudia lived on her phone. Yeah, so it would be really
00:21:24
Speaker
And typical or would not be typical for her to have a dead phone. Correct. Yeah, that would that was not typical for Claudia. And now, you know, after two days of not hearing from her, Susie's getting worried. So she did make a phone call to Claudia's dad, Peter, who he had a key to Claudia's place. She let him know that she was worried about Claudia.
00:21:50
Speaker
Well, Peter Lawrence, he actually, this is very logical, you know, I'm sure he was thinking, well, you know, maybe there's a good reason. So he actually tried to call her at work because then the morning she would have been at work. So Peter Lawrence called Goodrick college since, you know, that's where Claudia should have been only to hear that this was the second day that Claudia had not shown up for work. Oh, I bet he got instantly sick to his stomach.
00:22:20
Speaker
He did. And so he went straight to her home. And I'm sure his heart was racing as he unlocked the door and stepped inside. But Maggie, what he was greeted with was nothing out of the ordinary. In fact, there near the door right inside were her neatly placed slippers.
00:22:47
Speaker
There were a couple of unwashed dishes in the sink that looked like maybe it had had breakfast or something in it. Her purse with all of her credit cards, her wallet, her passport was right there in the house. Her toothbrush was laying out as if she had used it. Even her phone charger was there. The only things missing
00:23:14
Speaker
were her rucksack, which is like a rugged backpack that contained her shift whites for work. So that was missing, her cell phone was missing, her hair straighteners, and of course, Claudia herself. So where was she? Because it looked like that she had just left for work on the 19th, but had never made it there.
00:23:42
Speaker
Yeah, I was about to say, I wonder if she just, something happened to her on her walk to work because it sounds like you just said she gets up as normal on the 19th, packs up her things and goes to work and you know, ate her breakfast, put it in the sink. Her toothbrush was used. So that's what it looks like. Well, her dad, cause now it's the 20th.
00:24:11
Speaker
Right? And so- Yeah, we've lost a lot of time. Exactly. Her dad immediately called the UK emergency number 999, and he was afraid that they were just going to tell him, don't worry about it, wait a few days, she's an adult, she's likely going to come back. But to his surprise, the North Yorkshire police came out immediately and they came out in droves.
00:24:32
Speaker
Her dad recalled that there were, quote, about 150 to 200 officers combing every inch of the route she would have taken to the university, end quote. But they found nothing. Police searched her house, but there was no sign of struggle or foul play. So they decided to focus their attention on the route to work itself, on how far Claudia may have gotten from home,
00:25:02
Speaker
and what may have happened to
Suspicions and Clues
00:25:04
Speaker
her. And they believed early on that this was an abduction. That's what they were ruling it in the beginning. Right. Were they basing that on? Just that it looked like she had gone to work and then never arrived there. Okay.
00:25:19
Speaker
but they didn't have a lot to go on. So her phone wasn't one that could track her location in 2009, and she wasn't on social media. So there's not really a clear technology trail anyway.
00:25:36
Speaker
So police put up posters all around the city. They spoke with as many neighbors, friends, acquaintances as they could find. And they literally began, I'll show you a picture of it, crawling on their hands and knees in the undergrowth along the route to search for any and all clues. And was her walk to work, you know, obviously the walk to the pub that's on a sidewalk and, you know,
00:26:03
Speaker
I'm sure a lot of people were on that path but her walk to the university was that through town was that through like a more secluded area? No it's it's pretty open from what it looks like. You know you would pass by like a little playground or park or you know some green space.
00:26:26
Speaker
But quite a bit of it was like near the university. So there were shops and sidewalks and things like that. And despite law enforcement's diligent efforts in that search, there were still things about
00:26:44
Speaker
their initial investigation that bothered Claudia's mother, Joan. Primarily, she was worried about the picture that they had chosen for the Have You Seen Me posters that they plastered all around town. They were of Claudia with longer blonde hair, but Claudia had recently changed her hair color to dark brown.
00:27:08
Speaker
So her mom Joan was nervous that, you know, there might be people who would talk themselves out of calling because, you know, the person that they saw, maybe they're like, no, that can't be her. This girl had brown hair. I wonder if there was a reason they chose that photograph. I don't know, but that, I mean, I get why she was bothered by that because that would worry me because I would think anything that could, you know, potentially prevent someone from calling.
00:27:38
Speaker
I'd be worried about it. Yeah.
00:27:41
Speaker
It was during this investigation that police were able to see her movements on CCTV footage. And that's how I knew all of that movement on March 18th, where she's seen walking home. She's seen getting to her home. She's then seen leaving again. She's seen mailing a letter coming back. And we know all of that because of the footage. However,
00:28:09
Speaker
Even on the morning of the 19th, at the closest location with CCTV footage, Claudia is never seen on screen, leaving us to wonder whether whatever harm befell Claudia
00:28:28
Speaker
happened on the morning of the 19th as everyone assumed by the toothbrush left out the dishes and the sink you know but maybe before she got to that first CCTV footage spot or whether it had happened on the night of the 18th after she had talked to her mom and dad could somebody have taken her then
00:28:53
Speaker
Maybe she went to stay the night with someone and that's why her hair straightener was gone. But then you would think, well, maybe she would have taken her toothbrush with her. Had she, right. Had she maybe taken a different route to work?
00:29:09
Speaker
And maybe that's why we can't see her on any CCTV footage that they're looking at. How close was the first CCTV footage to her cottage? That's a great question. I think it's about three quarters of a mile-ish away. So then we have to think, well, maybe she's walking and somebody stopped to give her a ride.
00:29:37
Speaker
And that's when she met with foul play. But I wonder if she would get in the car with somebody she didn't know. I get the feeling that she wouldn't. So it was an attempt to answer these questions that caused police to pull as much CCTV footage as they could possibly find.
00:29:58
Speaker
There were some other peculiar things caught on CCTV footage that we'll discuss here in just a moment that could could be related to Claudia's case. But before I get into that, I want to give you one added detail that police were able to figure out based on Claudia's phone. So while her phone could not be used to track her exact location, it did provide some information.
00:30:28
Speaker
At 12.10 p.m. on Thursday, March 19th, Claudia's phone signaled an explicit detachment from her network. So that is different from what I read from an implicit detachment, like if your phone times out or it locks itself or if it's broken so it's quickly not working, it has a sudden loss of power, an explicit detachment
00:30:57
Speaker
is a signal that happens when either your phone battery dies or your phone is deliberately turned off. It's a signal that basically says to the satellite, this phone is powering down. But if she is really obsessed with her phone, I don't see that she would let her phone die of her own accord or really turn it off. Which leads us to believe that maybe somebody else turned it off.
00:31:28
Speaker
Because her friends and family argue, like you just said, Maggie, that Claudia was religious about charging her phone. So that first option of a dead battery, they say it's not something that they would even consider. In their mind, whoever had taken Claudia had also turned off her phone.
00:31:50
Speaker
interesting. The CCTV footage that they found showed a man walking near Claudia's house at 507 a.m. on the 19th. They saw this person, this man, walking
00:32:13
Speaker
again, right around there. So Claudia's house, let me kind of give you a physical description. So Claudia's home, which is just four doors down from the nags head, is in a row of houses, right? So it's not separate houses. They're in a row, right? In like one building. And between the nags head, which is four door, like if you're at,
00:32:40
Speaker
I'm trying to, from where the camera is with the CCTV footage, Claudia's home in the row of houses is on the right hand of the screen. The nags head is a few doors down on the left. And where this- So are we able to see Claudia's house from this footage? You cannot see the front door, but you can see the end, the side of that row of houses.
00:33:05
Speaker
Oh, so they wouldn't be able to say definitively like, yes, she left going to work that morning based off this footage. Right. So the camera is so her house is on a main road. There's a side street. That's where this camera is. But it's kind of pointing towards the main road. And then behind Claudia's house in that row of houses is an alley.
00:33:30
Speaker
So this CCTV footage at 507 a.m. on the 19th, which would have been right around the time that Claudia would have left for work. You see this man walking down the side street back towards the back alley and he walks out of a frame for a minute and then he reappears
00:33:55
Speaker
walking toward the main road. So police actually released this footage and they asked him to come forward. Yeah, he could have seen her. Exactly. Is she alive? Right. So they're urging this man. They're saying, you know, you would have been there right around the time that Claudia would have left for work. So did you see her? Did you not see her?
00:34:17
Speaker
You know, maybe he even saw something that he didn't even realize was important, but it is important to this investigation. And, you know, they said they wanted to rule him out as a suspect and just get information. But the man never came forward. Which to me, I think sounds a little iffy for this guy.
00:34:36
Speaker
OK, yeah, so it's literally just this guy walking one direction on this piece of sidewalk. He disappears for literally two or three seconds and then turns around and walks that same piece of sidewalk again around the corner and off screen. Right. And so you're thinking, OK, first of all, who is this guy? What's he going back there to do? And why are you up at 5 a.m.? Yeah.
00:35:04
Speaker
And at that time, if Claudia left, it would have been around that time. So I mean, even if he saw a car, that information would be helpful to the investigation, but the man never came forward. In the weeks following her disappearance, there were a few witnesses who did come forward to say, hey, I think I saw someone who looks like Claudia.
00:35:32
Speaker
One witness saw a woman matching Claudia's image talking to a man at the Melrose Gate Bridge, which would have been right before the first CCTV footage of her. Right before it would have been picked up. Saw a man talking to a woman who looked like Claudia at around 5.35 a.m. on the 19th.
00:35:54
Speaker
And this was the way she would go to work. So she would pass this Melrose Gate Bridge. Okay. Yes. And this would have been, you know, right around the same time when she would have normally gotten to that point in her walk. This man, they described him as wearing a dark hoodie and he was seen smoking, holding the cigarette in his left hand.
00:36:21
Speaker
So, when people talk about this case, they call this man the left-hand smoker, right? Because he's holding the cigarette in his left hand. Another witness came forward and said they saw a woman of Claudia's description talking or arguing
00:36:38
Speaker
with a man near a car on the university campus and that the passenger door was open and that that was around the time that Claudia would have been arriving for work. So just a couple of minutes after six. Hmm. The man was described as wearing a black hoodie. Okay.
00:37:02
Speaker
Could the man, the left-handed smoker, and even potentially the man in the video, could they all be the same? You can't tell what this guy has on, but he definitely doesn't have on brightly colored clothes. It's definitely darker colored clothing.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah, so then you're thinking, okay, well, could they all three be the same man? Could at least that first sighting on the Melrose Gate Bridge have been the same guy seen with the car on campus? Because if she got into a car and was given a ride to campus, that would explain why she's not caught on any CCTV footage walking to work. Oh, yeah, I wish she wouldn't. Yeah.
00:37:46
Speaker
Here's the problem though if that's the scenario then she would she made it to work like she made it to campus. So what what happened at that point or was this even Claudia at all. Well that's true because the picture on the poster doesn't really look like Claudia as we know or now. Right.
00:38:06
Speaker
And like I said earlier, part of the problem as well is that we don't even know if Claudia went missing on the evening of the 18th or the morning of the 19th because some small part of me feels like if she had gone missing on the morning of the 19th as the sink dishes and the toothbrush seemed to show, then why did she never respond to that text from a friend that was sent at 9, 12 p.m.?
00:38:33
Speaker
Were we able to tell what time her phone sent that signal? It was powered off the next day at 1210.
00:38:42
Speaker
Yeah, so then she would have been able to respond to that if it was a normal evening for her Yeah, and so that's I feel like that's something that she would have at least even if she had already gone to bed that night Would have seen the next morning and then in my mind would have responded to but then I feel like if something happened on the night of the 18th and
00:39:06
Speaker
then that could explain why she didn't respond, but then that would also mean that these two sightings of women who look like Claudia on the 19th couldn't possibly be her. I don't know if you caught my Instagram reel with a caramel frappuccino recipe, but I have been obsessed
00:39:28
Speaker
with making blended coffee recipes over the Christmas holiday in my BlendJet. And I have been singing its praises to my coworkers since the day I got it.
00:39:39
Speaker
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00:40:07
Speaker
It lasts for 15 plus blends and recharges quickly via a USB-C.
00:40:14
Speaker
And my favorite part about the BlendJet 2 is that it cleans itself. You just have to blend water with a drop of soap and you're good to go. With more than 30 colors and patterns to choose from, there's a BlendJet 2 to compliment just about any style. I am rocking the seafoam color for myself. And I am loving my cute little lilac one. So what are you waiting for? Go to blendjet.com and grab yours today.
00:40:38
Speaker
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00:40:54
Speaker
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00:41:25
Speaker
Since Allison and I don't work together anymore, recording our podcasts became harder until we found Zincaster. Zincaster is podcast recording the way it should be, web-based and as easy as creating a link and clicking to join a recording session.
00:41:38
Speaker
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00:42:06
Speaker
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00:42:36
Speaker
We want you to have the same easy experience we do for all our podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. So by June 2009, Maggie, Claudia's family got what they thought was good news. Okay. Her case would appear on BBC One's show, Crime Watch, where it would get national attention.
00:43:07
Speaker
So it's kind of like, and I don't know this for sure, but in my head I kind of picture like an unsolved mysteries because they would do reenactments. Or 60 minutes maybe. Yeah, they would talk to the police. That's probably a better example of 60 minutes. However, Claudia's appearance on the show would end up being more of a curse than a blessing.
Media Shift and Investigation Challenges
00:43:32
Speaker
While the appearance on the show did increase the current coverage on Claudia's case, a comment from the Detective Superintendent Ray Galloway led to a complete shift in the narrative
00:43:47
Speaker
surrounding Claudia's case and to an unwillingness for other potential witnesses or those with information to come forward. So, Galloway said of their investigation into Claudia's case, quote, as the investigation has developed,
00:44:03
Speaker
It's become apparent that some of Claudia's relationships had an element of complexity and mystery to them. I'm certain that some of those relationships were not known to her family or friends." So this comment made it seem as though Claudia was having not only multiple relationships at the same time, right? Because notice he doesn't say relationship.
00:44:33
Speaker
He says some of Claudia's relationships had an element of complexity and mystery. So he makes it sound like there are multiple ones and that those relationships were like secret, illicit affairs that if public could damage her family or her friendships.
00:44:53
Speaker
I feel like this is a great example of how we should choose our words wisely because if they're worded certain ways, they imply certain things. Cause he could be talking about friendship relationships, right? Maybe she was friends with people that her parents didn't know about, which again, I think would maybe sound, could sound negative. But I just think that the way we word things,
00:45:22
Speaker
is important. And he actually did admit later that how it ended up being taken was not how he intended it. Because generally speaking, if you have abductions and murders, those generally happen or are perpetrated by people who are close to you. So it makes sense that you're going to look into relationships. But even though you take it back, air quotes,
00:45:50
Speaker
The damage has already been done. And the way that the implications sounded and what he said is exactly how the media outlets took it. So their stories, Maggie, changed from ones of this kind, beautiful girl next door who was abducted to downright victim blaming using adjectives now like home wrecker.
00:46:18
Speaker
and basically implying that Claudia, quote unquote, got what she deserved. Oh my. Just off that one comment, we have nothing else to base that off of. And even if she were a quote unquote homewrecker, she didn't deserve to be kidnapped. No, nobody does. And so after this comment, right, the rumor mill had begun running.
00:46:44
Speaker
And at that point, even though he later clarified that those implications were not his intention, it was too late to get it back under control. And now the less credible news sources began publishing stories about how many lovers Claudia had. They cited anonymous sources. So people who weren't even willing to go on record with their name
00:47:13
Speaker
Or fake ones that they made up. Right, potentially. Claiming that Claudia targeted older married men who frequented the pub and that there were around 40 men who Claudia was involved with. And her friends and family at every turn are saying false, wrong.
00:47:37
Speaker
You know, the, the landlord of the Nags Head Pub was like, I've never seen her quote unquote target older married men. That's just complete. And she was in there a lot. Yeah. We would know. Right. And her friends and her family who did go on record with their names also denied all of that. They clarified, no, she didn't have 40 boyfriends concurrently. You know, she had something like 12 over the course of six years.
00:48:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's two a year and that's not. That's not abnormal. Yeah. For dating relationships. And even if there had been more, that's still no reason for someone to be abducted and potentially murdered. Exactly. I don't understand why we have these stereotypes that just because someone is a quote unquote homewrecker or they're addicted to drugs or they were homeless.
00:48:37
Speaker
or whatever, that they aren't worthy of the same treatment everybody else gets and that they deserve to be treated the way that they are. No one for any reason ever deserves that. Yeah. It breaks my heart, honestly, that we could go so low as to, because even if she's having relationships with people, you know, and the people are in other committed relationships,
00:49:07
Speaker
that still doesn't mean that what happened to her, that she deserved for it to happen. Right. And that doesn't mean that her family is hurting any less. Right. So tabloids of course now are like, okay, we're going to run with this. So they actually found one man who did have an affair with Claudia. He,
00:49:33
Speaker
Later felt bad about it. He admitted to his wife what he had done. And this man, along with his wife in the tabloids, went on record to talk about the affair. So that story only fueled the fire. And by the way, what did that story have anything to do with her being missing?
00:49:55
Speaker
Right, exactly. Why even publish it? But now it became a story for the tabloids and not the legitimate news sources. So now Claudia's story went from like, OK, let's feature this on the legitimate news sources so we can get answers to now anything about her case is being run in the tabloids.
00:50:18
Speaker
Yeah, zero credibility. Right. And men especially who might have information pertaining to Claudia are now afraid to come forward because the immediate implication would be that they too were involved or having an affair.
00:50:38
Speaker
I hadn't even thought about that. There were even some men, Maggie, who wouldn't even admit that they knew Claudia because of the fear of scandal coming to them or their families.
00:50:51
Speaker
That's infuriating. But like, you can see why. It's because of what the tabloids did. So now, you know, if there's a man who, let's say he went to the Nags Head Pub, right? Completely innocent. He just goes there and he saw something. Well, now this man is afraid to come forward to the police because his name is going to be published in relation to this case. And it's infuriating, not. Right. And it's not him.
00:51:21
Speaker
not coming forward, this hypothetical man, that's infuriating. It's infuriating that the media took it to this point, you know? Exactly. And despite, this is good at least, despite the change in public perception, the police were still focused in their search for answers. They even extended their search to the island of Cyprus.
00:51:50
Speaker
in September 2009. See, Cyprus was a favorite vacation spot. She'd been there about five times of Claudius and she had several friends there. More rumors, but these rumors had it that she had even been offered a job on the island and that she had talked of one day moving there.
00:52:15
Speaker
And what finally kind of pushed law enforcement to search in Cyprus, what drew them to the island is that final text that Claudia received, the one at 912 that we don't even know if she read that she didn't respond to, was from a male friend who lived in Cyprus. So do they think that she just left to go visit and didn't tell anyone? One theory says that. We'll talk about it.
00:52:45
Speaker
Detective Superintendent Ray Galloway was interviewed by Jonathan Brown from The Independent on September 19, 2009. Here's a snippet from that article about this search in Cyprus. Quote, Some of the people that we've contacted have denied knowing Claudia or being in a relationship with her.
00:53:06
Speaker
I don't believe this to be true," said Mr. Galway. One Cypriot resident she knew had been in Britain at the time of her disappearance and had yet to fully establish his whereabouts with investigating officers. While police knowledge of her quote unquote complex private life was growing, it remained incomplete, he said. Some who knew her
00:53:35
Speaker
were reluctant and less than candid, with one man admitting he was acquainted with her only after police visited him for a third time." So it seems even in Cyprus, the rumors from these tabloids are already affecting.
00:53:55
Speaker
the investigation of people coming forward. But we have to wonder, was the reluctance to cooperate because the people had something to hide or because they were afraid of what the implications would be if their name was even mentioned in the investigation? So now you don't even know. Are they not coming forward because they're guilty? Or are they not coming forward because they don't want their name dragged under the bus or through the dirt?
00:54:26
Speaker
After a bit, all of the leads in Claudia's case seemed to dry up. The next month after the Cyprus focus, the police were exploring a different possibility. They were looking for someone who had been reportedly driving a rusty white van in the area around the time Claudia disappeared. So they're imagining that it happened in the morning of the 19th.
00:54:49
Speaker
And they were attempting, this person who was driving this rusty white van was attempting to talk to women walking along the route. So they're thinking, okay, well, maybe this person tried to talk to her and grabbed her or something like that. But nothing came of that lead either. Then, Maggie, there were the dead ends and hoaxes.
00:55:13
Speaker
Always. Oh, it makes me so mad. For example, one tip that came in led to police searching a playground area along Claudia's route to work, but they found nothing. This lead later turned out to be a hoax. And this wasn't the only one. In November 2009, someone posted on Facebook purporting to be Claudia.
00:55:43
Speaker
with the message, hi everyone. Just let you be aware that I'm okay and I'm safe and sound. Speak to you all soon, Claudia, XXX. Who does this type of thing? Well, police later discovered it was written by a teenager.
00:56:01
Speaker
and they arrested him for this act. And yet another person, also jailed for the hoax, gave a false tip that had led police on a four day search in Heslington. So wasting precious time and resources.
00:56:21
Speaker
Despite all their searches and all that they tried, the leads were reducing down to a trickle. It wasn't until 2013 that the North Yorkshire police created a major crime unit that would be dedicated to reinvigorating their look into past cold cases, especially given some new developments in DNA that this case, Claudia's case, got new life.
00:56:51
Speaker
because hers was one of the cases.
00:56:54
Speaker
that the major crime unit took back on. And with the advances in DNA, they were able to find some new things. Oh, good. So new cell technology was able to show that Claudia's phone had been pinging in the weeks before she disappeared in the Acum area of York. This would have been about double the distance of her walk to work.
00:57:23
Speaker
So a few miles away, but no one- And this was weeks before she disappeared? Well, in the weeks leading up to her disappearance. Yeah, it's pinging a lot in that Acum area, but no one seems to know who she might have been visiting there or why she may have been there.
00:57:44
Speaker
Using advanced forensics, they were now able to find additional DNA and fingerprints inside Claudia's home. You see, one of the things that after Claudia went missing, her dad actually was a strong proponent for, and he actually got a law passed that is nicknamed Claudia's law. And it's for families of
00:58:08
Speaker
victims who are missing because, you know, if they own a home, what do you do when that mortgage is coming due? Right. Like, at what point can you take over the affairs, the financial affairs of your missing loved one? And so at this point, there was no such law. And so her parents were having to continue to pay Claudia's mortgage and the bills.
00:58:35
Speaker
Oh, because she's just missing. Yeah. And I think at first they didn't really mind doing it because, you know, they if she did come back, they wanted her to have that to come back to. Mm hmm. But it's kind of lucky that they did have it. So now here we are in 2013. She went missing in 2009. Wow. And her place is still there. Everything as it was.
00:59:04
Speaker
Oh, so it's just like a little museum almost, everything in perfect condition. So police were able to go in and do additional testing and that's when they found additional DNA and fingerprints inside the home. They also tested items from Claudia's car, although it had been remember in the shop for a few weeks before she went missing.
00:59:27
Speaker
But they were thinking, you know, maybe there's a clue as to who she had been hanging around in this time before she disappeared. And in that search, they found a cigarette butt in the car with a male's DNA on it. That DNA was tested against all of her male friends and acquaintances whom they had interviewed, and it didn't match any of them.
00:59:55
Speaker
So it could be the left-handed smoker? It could be. Yeah, so is this the same smoking man from the witness sighting on the 19th? Who was this mystery man? Again, there was a call by law enforcement for this man who could potentially have ridden in Claudia's car and have smoked in it to come forward, and it went unanswered.
01:00:17
Speaker
Law enforcement also, when they reopened the case in 2013, they went back in time even further to watch CCTV footage in the days leading up to the 18th. Before they kind of focused their attention on just the 18th and then mostly the 19th, because that's when they assumed she went missing. Well, now they're backing it up a bit. And by doing so, they saw a couple of other interesting things.
01:00:46
Speaker
One clip showed a man about a week before Claudia disappeared. He was in his 30s and he was seen going up to Claudia's house. We don't know who this man is. Another clip was of a man in his mid 50s or 60s with gray mid-length hair and wearing a tan colored three-quarter length raincoat who was around Claudia's house on the 19th
01:01:14
Speaker
around 6.15 a.m. Now, that would have been after she should have been at work, but could this man have seen something? And this second man, the description, generally fits one of the nags head regulars who the whole group knew, but again, neither of these men have been identified. Hmm.
01:01:41
Speaker
For the fifth anniversary of Claudia's disappearance, her case was covered yet again on Crimewatch. It was on that show that yet another CCTV footage clip was shown that had not been previously aired, even though it had been collected in 2009.
01:02:01
Speaker
It showed a silver or other light colored Ford Focus between a 1998 and 2004 style driving along Hayworth Road in front of Claudia's house. This is the morning of the 19th at around 542 a.m. Just as it is exiting our view on the video, the car is seen swiftly applying the brakes. But why?
01:02:31
Speaker
This was a straight stretch with no traffic stop signs, no bumps, no lights. So why break? Did the driver of this car see something? Was this person there to pick Claudia up and drive her to work? And that's why the car is breaking. I'm going to guess they asked this person to come forward and no one did. Correct.
01:02:58
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it's just robbing along and then just slams his brakes. And there's no reason to. Yeah, I mean, there's literally no one out. Right. Then on May 13th, 2014, began a series of arrests in Claudia's case. Police first arrested a 59 year old man on suspicion of Claudia's murder.
01:03:30
Speaker
This man also worked at the university and lived near Claudia about three quarters of a mile away. He had given Claudia rides to work before. He was a regular at the Nags Head and he drove a Ford Focus.
01:03:49
Speaker
An article in the York press from May 13th, 2014, the day of the arrest stated, quote, officers have searched that property, but searches have primarily focused on the back garden of the house in York and on paved area behind the garage, as well as the inside of the property, end quote. They even searched his mother's home for evidence.
01:04:19
Speaker
But even though containers of evidence were taken from the scene to be tested, law enforcement ended up letting him go and not charging him because they were not able to find evidence to link the man to any crime involving Claudia. But then why were they taking containers of evidence? I guess if it looked suspicious, they were taking it.
01:04:44
Speaker
And at some point during this investigation, they did change their ruling of the case from abduction to potential homicide. Okay. Because they're thinking, you know, she would have shown up by now. Something could have surfaced, yeah.
01:05:02
Speaker
Two months later, so they let that man go, two months later in July 2014, police arrested a 49 year old pub landlord in Acum. Remember, that's where Claudia had been spending more time because there were the pings of her cell phone. He was arrested on charges of perverting the course of justice.
01:05:25
Speaker
And police had even dug up portions of the cellar floor in his pub looking for clues. But again, they found nothing and the pub landlord was released without charge. Then in April 2015, three drinking buddies were arrested for their potential involvement in Claudia's murder.
01:05:53
Speaker
Two of the three men were brothers, and the third man's sister had been married to the younger of the brothers. The eldest brother actually lived with one of Claudia's friends.
01:06:11
Speaker
but at the time, all were divorced men in their 50s who were regulars at the nags head and had actually been taking bets on which one of them would be arrested next for the murder of Claudia Lawrence. It's a little dark. Yeah, they said it was a joke, but police literally came knocking on their doors with search dogs in hand.
01:06:41
Speaker
Now, some people believe that the arrests show just how ridiculous the focus had become on the nags head in particular, while others thought, like you just said, the joke is in such poor taste that they felt the men deserved the investigation.
Ongoing Efforts and Public Reluctance
01:06:57
Speaker
A spokesperson for Claudia's father, Peter, told reporter Lucy Thornton of the Mirror, quote, Detective Superintendent Malan made it clear that if people didn't come forward voluntarily to him, then he will come and get them.
01:07:11
Speaker
Someone is withholding the truth and that is despicable. If you were waiting to hear the fate of your daughter and someone to save their own skin is withholding information, then I would hope the full force of the law will come down on that person." But just like the previous arrests, Maggie, these three were let go with no charges filed. Finally,
01:07:42
Speaker
On March 8, 2016, four men, four other men, all regulars at the NAGS head, were arrested on suspicion of murder. All of them denied anything to do with it, and all four were let go because of a lack of evidence.
01:08:05
Speaker
I wonder how they're coming up with these people. There has to be like some type of lead. Right. Something. One of those four men was the partner of Claudia's friend, Jen. Now I only saw that in one source. Now there are lots of people who still believe despite the fact that all nine people who had been arrested at one point in relation to Claudia's disappearance have been released due to lack of evidence that just because
01:08:35
Speaker
they haven't yet been able to piece everything together to prove guilt, doesn't mean that any of those men are indeed innocent. We don't know. Right. But until people stop being afraid of public perception and come forward, Claudia's family and friends will continue to have to suffer in the unknown. And like you said, it's just so crazy because
01:08:59
Speaker
It seems they were just days from finding out what happened to her. Right. And now it's been years. Years. And I really think it had to do with that comment on Crime Watch that changed the narrative.
01:09:13
Speaker
In 2017, according to an article in the North Yorkshire News, police moved Claudia's case from an active investigation to a reactive one, meaning it wasn't the primary focus of investigation, but that if any more leads did come in, they would respond to and investigate them.
01:09:36
Speaker
It was during this time, the time of these arrests, in 2016 on the sixth anniversary of Claudia's disappearance that police released yet another video grabbed from CCTV footage. This one shows a man acting suspiciously around Claudia's home on the night of March 18, 2009,
01:10:02
Speaker
at around 7.15 p.m. So this would have been about an hour before she spoke to her mom and her dad on the phone. But again, we don't know if whatever harmful Claudia happened the night of the 18th or the morning of the 19th. Right. So we've got to kind of look at both. This is on the night of the 18th. In this footage, there are two men
01:10:25
Speaker
One is wearing darker clothing and is seen walking from the main road down the side street into the alley behind the row of houses just like that previous video. He reemerges about a minute later and as he's walking back up the side street toward the main street, another man in a lighter coat enters the frame walking on the main road
01:10:51
Speaker
like he's coming from the nags head, walking toward that row of houses that includes Claudius. The darkly clad man stops dead in his tracks on the side street until the man in the light color coat on the main road has passed before he continues to walk towards the main road himself. That's weird.
01:11:16
Speaker
Okay, so watch this video. Is this the same footage I watched a second ago? No, no. Did you see him like just stop? I wonder if he did it so the man does he just go around the corner? Oh, he looks over his shoulder. I wonder if he did that so he wouldn't have an encounter with a lightly colored jacket man. That's what a lot of people think. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
01:11:44
Speaker
So the footage itself, this is the night of the 18th, looks at the beginning nearly identical to what happens in that video footage the morning of the 19th. I mean, it looks to me like it's the same person. Yeah. But this is creepy. Like as he's walking back, he sees somebody walking on the main street and literally just stops.
01:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, and he doesn't even try to make it look like he's doing anything like bending down a tie shoe checking a cell phone He just stands there. Mm-hmm just real creepy like and then until the man Yeah, cuz if he would have kept walking they would have met at the intersection of those two roads Yeah, and so the man in that white coat or the cream colored coat would have got a clear look at this guy's face Mm-hmm Yeah, so
01:12:36
Speaker
You know, again, to me, and obviously we don't know, is this the same guy who was seen on CCTV footage the next morning? To me, they look the same. And you know, I'm pretty sure that the garbage cans for the row of houses, like Claudia's garbage can was in the alley behind her home. So that's kind of what he's walking toward when he goes out of the frame towards the back.
01:13:03
Speaker
So in my head, here's what I'm thinking, and this is pure hypothesis. Could this man maybe have been someone who was staying with Claudia, right? So then I'm thinking, you know, we don't know. He could have been, this footage we just saw at 7.15, he could have been in her home when she was talking to her parents.
01:13:29
Speaker
and have just been quiet while she was on the phone. Because I mean, if Rodney's talking on the phone, if I'm there, I'm not making loud noises because he's on the phone. Exactly. So maybe this man was there with her. Maybe he like took the trash or something. This is, and again, here's where my hypothesis, and I'm going a little crazy with this theory, but maybe he took the trash back there.
01:13:55
Speaker
And then when he's walking back, maybe he thinks he recognizes this other man, maybe from the nags head, you know, and we know that Claudia, she's young, right? She's single. She's having relationships with people that are not necessarily serious. And why would they be right? She's not doesn't need to settle down now. And we do know that a few of the men who she dated were regulars at the nags head. So they would have been around each other.
01:14:25
Speaker
You know, what if this man who's staying with Claudia recognizes the man in the light colored coat from the nags head and maybe this man in the dark clothing is like, oh, that's one of Claudia's exes. Right. And maybe he pauses because he's thinking, why is he walking this way? Is it coming to see Claudia? Right.
01:14:55
Speaker
So maybe he pauses. So when he rounds the corner, he can see if this man is going to try to go to Claudia's house. You know, and whether the man does or doesn't, you know, the man in dark colored clothing could have been, if he is staying with Claudia, could have been mad. Right? Like, why was he walking this way? And then whatever harm happened to her could have happened that night.
01:15:21
Speaker
That's the only thing I can think of, because I don't know why he would have stopped in his tracks. I can't think of a logical explanation.
01:15:31
Speaker
Well, I'm wondering if, like you said, maybe he is staying with Claudia and he already has in his mind that he is going to harm Claudia. Maybe this isn't a serious relationship. Maybe she doesn't really know him that well. You know, maybe they just met that day and then he is, you know, like you said, being nice and taking the garbage out or something like that and is walking back to Claudia's.
01:15:58
Speaker
to do whatever he's going to do or maybe he's already done it and he's leaving. And he's like, yeah, I don't want to run into anybody because I don't want them to be able to tell the police what I look like so the police can make a sketch of me. Yeah. I mean, all of those are possibilities.
01:16:18
Speaker
Yet another tip came in a little over a year ago around August 2021 that led police to search a wooded area about eight miles northeast of York City Center in an area called the Sandhutton gravel pits.
01:16:36
Speaker
Detective Superintendent Wayne Fox, now in charge of the investigation, told the North Yorkshire News, quote, we consulted a number of national experts in various different disciplines and concluded that we could not discount the possibility that sand hut and gravel pits could have a major relevance in explaining what happened to Claudia.
01:17:00
Speaker
Armed with fresh information to the inquiry that seemed to corroborate known facts, we were duty bound to conduct thorough searches of the area. Not searching was not an option, not for Claudia, not for her family, and not for the wider public. As a result of the publicity surrounding the last two weeks,
01:17:21
Speaker
Members of the public have come forward with new information for which I'm grateful. This will be assessed and investigated in the coming days and weeks. As I hope the events of the last two weeks demonstrate, we are committed to establishing what happened to Claudia and bringing closure for her family. You cannot fail to be moved by the ongoing suffering of a mother who does not know what has happened to her daughter.
01:17:48
Speaker
I again repeat the request to those who know what has happened to Claudia, do the right thing, come forward and help end the torment of Claudia's family." And it's so sad because I feel that that is our plea every week.
01:18:07
Speaker
And the police spent several weeks searching that area with cadaver dogs with ground penetrating radars. They even drained a lake on the property and did another one of those fingertip searches where they're crawling on their hands and knees in a line side by side in the lake bed. But again, the search found nothing to lead them to answers. And as recently as January 2022,
01:18:36
Speaker
An ominous message was found by a member of the community. It was a laminated photo of Claudia with a bouquet of flowers on it. And surrounding Claudia's image is handwritten this note. She's in the water with arrows pointed in the same direction. And then to the side, it says, God bless her.
01:19:04
Speaker
There are so many times when I want to do something digitally, like read a book or take notes, but I miss the feel of real paper. I've tried journaling on my iPad as a great news resolution, by the way. But the feel of the screen didn't give me the same satisfaction as writing on paper.
01:19:22
Speaker
until I got Paperlike. Paperlike is a screen protector that makes an iPad feel exactly like you are writing or drawing on paper. It is perfect for note takers, journalers, and artists, for anyone who draws and writes using an iPad and an Apple pencil. The surface of the Paperlike is coated using nano dots, tiny microbeads that are designed to add superior stroke precision when you drag your Apple pencil across the screen.
01:19:50
Speaker
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01:20:10
Speaker
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01:20:39
Speaker
All right, so I have some questions. Okay, I'm ready. So January 2022, so almost a year ago, we find a laminated photograph of Claudia holding a bouquet of flowers. No. Or the photograph is on a bouquet of flowers. Yeah, there's a bouquet of flowers sitting on top of the laminated photograph. Okay. And it says she's in the water. And then arrows are pointing to what?
01:21:08
Speaker
I don't know. I know they're just pointing in the same direction, but I didn't read whether it's like clearly one body of water. Yeah. I don't know. And it's just found in a random location in this community. Yes. OK. Creepy. Yeah. Now we don't have answers. We never do. But I do have some theories.
01:21:37
Speaker
And I want to know which one you think is most plausible. Theory one is that Claudia left of her own accord to go to Cyprus or somewhere else to start a new life. She did have friends there. She had talked about moving there one day and rumor had it that she had recently been offered a job there. All that is well and good.
01:22:04
Speaker
but my devil's advocate, why wouldn't she have told her parents at least? Why would she have made plans for the next several days with various people? That was going to be my next question. Yeah. If she had already planned on leaving to go to Cyprus and the biggest issue, wouldn't she have needed the passport that she had left behind in her home? Oh, I hadn't even thought about that. Yeah. So that one,
01:22:34
Speaker
I can already count that one off my list. Roll it out, yeah. Theory number two is actually a serial killer named Christopher Halliwell. This theory developed after a book on Halliwell was published in 2017 claiming that he could be connected to Claudia Lawrence.
01:22:59
Speaker
Halliwell, we know, killed a woman named Sean O'Callaghan in ways that potentially Barry marked similarity to Claudia's case. So O'Callaghan had been walking alone early in the morning around 3 AM toward her home. Halliwell, who drove a taxi, had pulled up beside her and offered to drive her home.
01:23:26
Speaker
She accepted, but instead of driving her home, Halliwell murdered her and concealed her body. Her murder was on March 19th, 2011, two years to the day after many believe Claudia disappeared.
01:23:46
Speaker
No big deal. That's my wedding anniversary, but Carrie. Oh, no. Halliwell also admitted to the murder of Becky Edwards in 2003. And it is also believed that he may have murdered a woman by the name of Linda Razzle on March 19th, 2002, while she was walking to work.
01:24:11
Speaker
So a lot of things fit. Yes. The dates are all the same. He drove a taxi and. The circumstances. He was a left-handed smoker. Okay. So all potential connections to Claudia's case and it is believed that he may have killed upwards of 60 women. Wow. To play devil's advocate though, there is no direct link between Halliwell and Claudia Lawrence.
01:24:39
Speaker
Furthermore, the North Yorkshire police and Wiltshire police both say they have CCTV footage showing Halliwell at a gas station buying fuel, according to an article for ITVX, on the quote, night Claudia vanished in York, end quote. Though that does make the assumption it seems that Claudia was killed the night of the 18th rather than the morning of the 19th because they said
01:25:08
Speaker
They have him on CCTV footage the night Claudia vanished. So that makes me think, couldn't he have driven to York that morning? That next morning of the 19th and committed the crime?
01:25:24
Speaker
We think he drove there specifically for her had he been profiling her was this just a random I mean the other murders that he has admitted to were in the same town in which he lived I Don't think it was necessarily his mo to drive out of his way Mm-hmm to commit the crimes, but it's a possibility Theory three
01:25:51
Speaker
is that some accident happened to her on the way to work. So could she have had some sort of accident? Maybe she was hit by a car and then her body disposed of. Law enforcement dismissed this theory pretty early on, but
01:26:07
Speaker
In my head, there is still that light colored Ford Focus seen on the main street the morning of the 19th. That was around 542 a.m. And we asked before, why brake? So then I'm thinking, could they have struck Claudia? So we don't know whether this, I mean, it could be an innocent passerby. And the reason for breaking something as innocuous as the driver dropping their cell phone and they're reaching for it.
01:26:36
Speaker
Right. So like you, you, you break as you're like leaning over to pick up a phone. I mean, it can be something as innocent as that, but we don't know because the driver has never come forward. Which like I said, makes it sound fishy. Unless they just, you know, maybe watch that TV show and they're like, well, I don't want to come forward. Cause they'll be, you know, implications that I was
01:27:01
Speaker
doing something that I shouldn't have been doing. But I just feel like if they haven't come forward, that just looks bad on them. It makes them seem that they are involved in some way. I know. Theory four and the most popular theory is that Claudia was murdered by someone she knew. Could it have been an ex-boyfriend, even though most say she still had a good relationship with almost all of them? Could it have been a scorned girlfriend or wife?
01:27:31
Speaker
from one of the, you know, if there was another man who had cheated with Claudia? Could it have been a man who had made advances toward Claudia and she had turned them down? Could it have been an angry friend? Was it somebody who was caught but not yet identified on those CCTV images? Sadly, we know that the majority of murders are carried out by someone the victim knows.
01:28:00
Speaker
So was the same true for Claudia Lawrence?
01:28:05
Speaker
All right, what are your thoughts, Maggie? I'm not 100% sure on the theory, but I just keep going back to that town that her phone pinged in because she didn't have a car, correct? Correct. And that would have been too far for her to walk. So someone is picking her up and taking her there. So who is this person? That is everything that is in my head, too. Because how else would she be getting there?
01:28:33
Speaker
And nobody seems to know who she was going there with or who to see. I guess she could have taken a taxi, right? And then that could link her to the serial killer. Was it a friend? I mean, obviously it was the one who was taking her. But who? While the case may be cold, it is still being investigated.
01:29:01
Speaker
The new lead of the inquiry into Claudia's case, Detective Superintendent Wayne Fox, told the North Yorkshire News, quote, whilst the inquiry is in a reactive phase, I want to stress that it is not closed. Every new piece of information or material is thoroughly assessed for investigative value and tested against the significant amount of material that has been acquired over the last 13 years.
01:29:30
Speaker
I hope that the nature and scale of activity undertaken in August last year demonstrates that we continue in our efforts to thoroughly investigate any line of inquiry that is deemed pursuable. And despite the passage of time, we remain determined
01:29:47
Speaker
to provide the answers that Claudia's mother, sister, and her many friends so desperately need and deserve. I am extremely grateful to those members of the public who have provided information, and I repeat my appeals to anyone else who may have information which is relevant to Claudia's disappearance to share that information with us. Although it is 13 years since Claudia disappeared,
01:30:13
Speaker
I still firmly believe that the public have a vital part to play in supporting our efforts. Given the sheer amount of material acquired and the number of inquiry lines pursued, it may be the case that what could appear to be insignificant could actually be the key to finally resolving this inquiry." Joan Lawrence, Claudia's mom, told Josh Halliday of The Guardian on March 18, 2022,
01:30:43
Speaker
If you give up on hope, you may as well give up altogether. It's the not knowing. Despite the fact she was 35, she's my child. You can't say goodbye. You don't know whether she's dead. You don't know if she's alive. You don't know where she is. You don't know what's happened to her. There's no grave. It's still pretty awful. It really is."
01:31:11
Speaker
How she doesn't give up hope despite all that pain is remarkable and is a testament to her love for her daughter that hope remains stronger than despair. As for Claudia's father, Peter, he passed away in 2021 without ever seeing earthly justice for whoever had harmed his baby girl. But I like to think that he knows the answer now.
01:31:39
Speaker
and is perhaps finally reunited with her. But we here on Earth are still left with many questions, most simple and easily answerable, that while they may not lead us to, the perpetrator can at least eliminate paths that are red herrings, taking away energy from searching in the right directions. Number one, who did Claudia mail a letter to on the 18th and what did it say?
01:32:09
Speaker
Number two, if the witnesses did indeed see Claudia the morning of the 19th, who was this left-handed smoker she was with? Number three, what male had been smoking in her car before her car went to the shop? Number four, who was the man seen in the alley the evening of the 18th and the morning of the 19th? Why was he there? And why did he stop when he saw someone who would cross this path?
01:32:36
Speaker
Number five, who was the man seen going up to Claudia's house in the week before her disappearance? Number six, who was the man in the tan colored raincoat seen walking near Claudia's home the morning of the 19th? Number seven, why had she been spending time right before her disappearance in Acum? Number eight, why did the driver of the Ford Focus break just as it was in front of Claudia's house? Number nine, who left that note?
01:33:04
Speaker
that Claudia was quote in the water. What information do you have? Number 10. And finally, what will it take for these men to have the guts to come forward and do what's right despite any fear of rumors? Detective superintendent Fox on the 12th anniversary of Claudia's disappearance spoke words that are as true today as they were then.
01:33:29
Speaker
He stated, quote, today on the 12th anniversary of her disappearance, our hearts go out to Claudia's loved ones. They've endured unrelenting anguish and trauma throughout this time. I want to express our sympathy and ongoing support to Claudia's mother, Joan, to her sister, Allie, and to her many good friends. It is deeply sad that Claudia's father, Peter, died just a few weeks ago, never knowing what happened to his daughter.
01:33:57
Speaker
In my view, there are likely to be several people out there who either know or have strong suspicions as to what happened to Claudia. For whatever reason, they've maintained a silence for 12 years. That is an awfully long time to carry such a burden of guilt. The longer you carry it, the greater the anguish you're causing to Claudia's family and friends. Please do the right thing. Come forward and speak to me."
01:34:28
Speaker
Anyone with information concerning Claudia Lawrence's activity in the weeks leading to her disappearance or information concerning her disappearance or murder are asked to call the North Yorkshire Police on 101. Select option one.
01:34:43
Speaker
and pass details to the Force Control Room quoting Claudia Lawrence. Or if you would like to remain anonymous, call Crime Stoppers as 0800 555 111 and state Claudia Lawrence, North Yorkshire Police. Or by going to www.crimestoppers-uk.org.
01:35:10
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:35:40
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week. It's love notes for Maggie and Allison.
01:36:09
Speaker
And I want to send love to Jenny and Sarah for giving us a shout out on social media this week and recommending our pod to others. We love that. Yeah. Thank you so much. This is my favorite time of the week. I want to send lots of love to Jana who sent us a picture sporting her coffee and cases hoodie and coffee mug with our mugs on it. Get it? Like our mugs on a mug. I love it.
01:36:39
Speaker
So good. It is amazing. Thank you for that. You really made our day. And if anyone else out there wants to order from our merch, you can click the link to our Etsy shop in the show notes for this episode. So that is still up and running. You can still get your CNC merchandise. We also want to send a lot of love to our newest Patreon members, Alison, not this Alison.
01:37:09
Speaker
But Heather, Allison, and Rebecca, we are so glad to have you on Patreon with us. Yes, new members to the CNC fam. Welcome, Allison and Rebecca. And for our other listeners who haven't yet joined us on Patreon, remember that your time is running short to get in for only $5 a month.
01:37:29
Speaker
and you will receive three mini episodes and one solved case of bonus material each month. So prices do change on January 1st, so do not delay. Yes, because today is the 29th, so you do not have a lot of time. Right.
01:37:49
Speaker
And if you join at the 12, 15, or $20 level this month and stay there through February, then you will get in on the next round of swag boxes that will go out around Valentine's Day. And if you've been considering giving Patreon a try, now is the time because you can get in on the swag box. You can get in on the lower price. So do not dilly-dally. We know you'll love
01:38:16
Speaker
Listening to what is on there because we love creating the Patreon content for you guys. And with that, all of our love is going out to each and every one of you. Until next week, sleuthounds.