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Documenting Fragmented Remains and Data in the Cloud - Ep 106
195 Plays6 years ago
Paul and Chris discuss an article from SAAs Advances in Archaeological Practice about using a database designed in FileMaker for documenting large skeletal collections. We also talk about your data in the cloud and what that means.
Links“Advances in Documentation of Commingled and Fragmentary Remains” by Anna J. Osterholtz.Advances 7(1), 2019.DOI:10.1017/aap.2018.35ArchaeoTech 95: Implementing a Tablet-Based Recording System for Ceramic ClassificationEpisode where we discuss iNaturalistApp of the DayWebby: Rad Power BikesPaul: Audubon Bird GuideContactChris WebsterTwitter: @archeowebbyEmail: chris@archaeologypodcastnetwork.comPaul ZimmermanTwitter: @lugalEmail: paul@lugal.com
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Transcript
Sponsor Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
We're excited to announce that our very own podcasting platform, Zencaster, has become a new sponsor to the show. Check out the podcast discount link in our show notes and stay tuned for why we love using Zen for the podcast.
Episode Introduction: Databases for Skeletal Collections
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Archeotech Podcast, Episode 106. I'm your host, Chris Webster, with my co-host, Paul Zimmerman. Today, we talk about using a database to record large skeletal collections and where your data actually goes in the cloud. Let's get to it. All right, welcome to the show everyone and welcome, Paul. How are you doing? I'm doing all right today, Chris. How are you?
00:00:45
Speaker
Not too bad, not too bad. So to kick off this show, we've got a couple of things we're going to talk about, depending on timeframe and how much we wax on about these particular topics. So first we're going to start with an article that we both read in the latest issue. And if the latest, I mean 2019, let's see, 2019 volume seven issue one advances in archaeological practice from the Society for American Archaeology.
00:01:13
Speaker
It's called Advances in Documentation of Comingled and Fragmentary Remains by Anna J. Osterholz. We're going to talk about that. It's in the How-To Series of the journal. It's actually a really short article. It's really just a
00:01:31
Speaker
an illustration of how she set up this database for recording massive co-mingled and fragmentary human remains and how they used this database that she helped create. It sounds like she created it, but then had some help in refining it and things like that through different projects and how that helped analyze data quickly and efficiently.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, quickly and efficiently across a wide number of projects too, it sounds like. So it was really interesting, a little logical for me in that kind of like that one that we were discussing landscapes and underwater archaeology a few episodes back, it's a kind of archaeology that I don't really pay much attention to and certainly don't know much about.
00:02:15
Speaker
the osteological work that she's doing. So it was interesting to get a glimpse of the kinds of concerns they have and to see how much they do actually overlap with things that I am familiar with.
00:02:26
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if she started out and still is a CRM archaeologist, but she did say and acknowledged that when she was working for SWICA, SWCA, is when she first developed this on a big project. That's at the very end of the article. That doesn't necessarily mean she was a CRM archaeologist. They hire other people to do different specializations and things like that.
00:02:48
Speaker
Let's just go with that for now because the thing is, it sounds like she's worked all over the world or at least taken this database all over the world and have other people use it and maybe help them set it up. And while you're listening to this, if you want to go play around with it, go to the show notes for this episode and they're over at arkpodnet.com forward slash archaeotech.
00:03:09
Speaker
forward slash one zero six, because we'll have not only a link to the article, but in the article is a link to the actual database. So you can download it and use it. As long as you download as well FileMaker 15. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know how that works. If you don't have like a license for it, if you can just open something and use it, if you don't have to dig into the backend of it, I'm not really sure how that works, but that is the caveat, which we're going to talk about is it's written for FileMaker 15. And that's what she said in this article here.
00:03:38
Speaker
I'm not even sure if that's the current, most current version of FileMaker, but it's up there. So yeah, well, let's talk about this. So she says here that the database was presented. She says, let's say database presented here was developed for the analysis of an assemblage that was ultimately repatriated in accordance with NAGPRA, the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act. So big data set that they had here.
00:04:03
Speaker
Let's see, used around the world, the database detailed here provides a standardized set of observations that can be recorded quickly and consistently. So one major observation that I have is they're basically doing what everyone else has tried to do this does is that they get rid of paper and they create a standardized format for recording information using
00:04:26
Speaker
you know, using predictable variables that they can, that they can sit in their standards. So people don't have to type anything in really everything that we talk about for digital archeology is reducing errors by reducing the amount of things you have to type in. Cause every time people are asked to type, they screw it up.
00:04:42
Speaker
And, you know, even from a database standpoint, if you have, we've talked about this before, if you have capital letters so they don't belong or if you have, you know, an extra space or a leading zero or an extra leading zero or something like that, it changes the data. So it changes the way that it's searched and changes the way that it's sorted.
Standardizing Data Entry
00:05:00
Speaker
And it changes everything about it because databases are very particular with every single character that you use. And when every time you can standardize the way things are entered, then you increase your reliability for data, I would say.
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah, the consistency and you can also increase the speed. I'm going to throw a little example because it just happened to me about typing things in. It's not archaeological except that I'm trying on selling on eBay some old total station equipment, including a handle battery. So I had it listed for $20. I decided to drop it $2 in price when the first listing expired, nobody bid on it.
00:05:37
Speaker
I found out today when somebody bid on it for $8 that I mistyped when I went to type 18. And I only bring that up because that's the really easy kind of stuff that happens a lot of times when you're typing things in by hand is you goof. How many times have you mistyped your own name on things? I do it all the time. I know that if I'm going to mistype my name, it's always going to be Zimimran.
00:06:01
Speaker
It just happens. Usually, I'll find that one, but apparently, I didn't find when I mistyped the price that I'm going to sell this handlebar. This is going to get a great deal on it. We've all experienced it, so it's something that we all are aware of and something that we're all concerned about reducing the incidence of mistyped or inconsistently typed data.
00:06:24
Speaker
Oh, I, I do my last name all the time now and I never used to because my last name is Webster. And I always, anytime I tell somebody, you know, they say, how do you spell it? And it's like, like the dictionary, you know, cause everybody knows Webster's dictionary, even in this day and age, you've probably heard of Webster dictionary. So I'm like, yeah, it's just like that. But now my brain, like, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, this didn't happen, but now it does. But half the time I go to type my last name and I type website.
00:06:53
Speaker
That's really sad. Step away from the computer, put the phone down. It's so bad, it's so bad.
00:07:04
Speaker
Anyway, back to the article here. A couple of things she says as she's setting up the article and getting ready to talk about the database and its development. It says, given the complex nature of large assemblages, it's somewhat understandable that they tend to be relegated to appendices or analyzed with only specific questions in mind.
00:07:23
Speaker
I think the reason for that, she doesn't really go into why that is, but I think the reason for that might be that, I mean, she's not saying these things aren't recorded. What she's saying is that they're not easy to analyze, right? So you're still recording all the attribute data for these things, but then you're taking 30,000 items and dropping them into a table that no one can read. That's basically what she's saying, I think. And then those things are relegated to the appendices of a report or something like that, where you can go through 700 pages of data.
00:07:50
Speaker
about small bone fragments. But if you put all these into a database, well, the whole power of a database and the reason you use it is because it's queryable. So you can go through and say, well, okay, so I've got all these things. Well, how much of this do I have? How much of this do I have? How many individuals do I have? How many female
Osterholz's Database Training
00:08:09
Speaker
children do I have or something like that?
00:08:11
Speaker
If you entered your data correctly, then you can pull this information out. Whereas if you just have a spreadsheet in Excel or something like that, then you're done. You can't query it as easily. Aside from MNI, minimum number of individuals, she doesn't talk about data out quite as much as data in, which is understandable given the scope of this article.
00:08:31
Speaker
But I was wondering about how the data in affects the data coming back out. And I would assume, because I've worked with databases a lot over the years, that it improves one's ability to query and analyze the data if you've collected them good and consistently and efficiently. But it isn't really the major thrust of the article aside, again, for mentioning MNI a number of times.
00:08:56
Speaker
They managed to get all these people, uh, to enter data in because as I rented to Paul at the beginning of the podcast, before we hit record, they had what she calls a bootcamp style osteology course. And I just, I just want to put out right now, stop using the words bootcamp style. And I know everyone does it and I get what you mean by it. But as somebody who actually went through a bootcamp now, granted, it was Navy bootcamp. I mean, it wasn't as easy as Air Force bootcamp, but still it was nonetheless.
00:09:26
Speaker
I mean, that's like a club med, let's be honest. I think it's only six weeks too. At least, I don't know how long Navy is now, but it was eight weeks when I went through it. So, you know, saying bootcamp style, I mean, we got to find another, maybe field school style. How about that? You know, cause you go through, you learn something real quick and you're out. I don't know.
00:09:44
Speaker
Anyway, it didn't stick out to me. The fact that you mentioned boot camp, the terminology, though I do actually, given our field, like the idea of calling it field school style, better than boot camp style. But boot camp to me sounded like what I've heard a million times and I was telling you off air before we started recording.
00:10:02
Speaker
It's a common term amongst programmers. There are Java boot camps, and Ruby on Rails boot camps, and this and that, and the other thing, programming language on boot camps. Maybe she came at it from that world.
00:10:17
Speaker
The important thing about the boot camp or field school style is that it implied a kind of structured training environment, right? And that, to me, reminded me of back in episode 95 when we had Parker Van Balkenberg and amongst others, I mean, it was what, six people on the,
00:10:36
Speaker
on the line with us that day, we were talking about their recording system with tablets for recording ceramics, and that was very much in the same sort of thing. They had an introductory course for their students in the field to know how to do the recordings, and then they let them loose with the tablets, in their case in pairs, in order to start doing the recordings of the ceramics on their sites. And so that rung very similarly to this brief description of boot camp style osteology course.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah, I guess the only other issue I would have with that too is, man, I took an osteology course when I was in college and I'll tell you what, it was hard for me to learn in three months how to identify very detailed aspects of human bone, and any bone to be honest, and to be able to side the bone, tell what side of the body it's on, and then identify what end you have, what are you actually looking at. So I'd be curious to see
00:11:31
Speaker
what sort of attributes these relatively untrained undergrad students were actually trying to find and how accurate that was, to be honest. Because when you're slamming through a collection that's tens of thousands of specimens big, then speed is the key. Otherwise, they wouldn't have developed this database, but also accuracy. You can have
00:11:51
Speaker
You can have all the accuracy, all the tables and things like that you want for people to choose from. But if they don't know what they're looking at, then that's difficult, which is why I wanted to lead that into the visual recording forms that they put in here, which is just a ton of work. And I think really the standout example of how really great this can be. Yeah, that first form that she had. Yeah. My jaw hit the ground when I turned the page to that first form she has. That thing is absolutely stunning.
00:12:19
Speaker
well-designed forms with good illustrations such obviously and this was the same thing coming out of the ceramics tablet recording discussion we had was illustrations so that the field recorders don't have to guess what you mean in words but can look at and see in an illustration what it is you mean and how much that really increases consistency and speed of recording and so that was a good thing to see here.
00:12:42
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm not sure because we're looking at one of the forms. The very first one has the human skull and four different views of it. And there's these little squares all over the place. And it makes me think that you can actually check those, like click on them and create a checkbox or something like that.
00:12:59
Speaker
And then there's kind of an exploded view of the human skull, which is disturbing to say, but neat to look at. And it's kind of like a flattened, you know, almost a Mercator projection of the human skull and like a map. And then, you know, the only, the one other, I guess, stylistic thing just looking at this is I think all the fields, they could be a little easier to look at because if you're
00:13:25
Speaker
If you're looking at this on an iPad, that's a pretty cramped up screen unless you're on one of the bigger iPads. But I got the impression based on what they were saying they used FileMaker for because it's cross-platform. Anytime somebody says FileMaker is cross-platform, you know they're only using it on the computer because on mobile it's not cross-platform.
00:13:41
Speaker
FileMaker doesn't work on Android, as far as I know. It only works on iOS, but it is cross-platform on Windows versus Mac computers,
Setting Up Databases: Observations & Tools
00:13:51
Speaker
for example. You can download FileMaker for your Windows computer and use it on there now. You didn't used to be able to, but now you can.
00:13:57
Speaker
So I guess if you have a big screen and you can spread all this stuff out and maybe increase your font size a little bit Then you know you can you can see a lot here But the way it was designed it would be really hard to use on a smaller device in the field, but still super cool You know it's really neat being able to look at just the pictures of the things that you're looking at and then you go down I think the third image is
00:14:18
Speaker
Yeah, there's long bones and, uh, that one's a lot easier to see because, uh, you know, there's not as many of them and it's not as detailed. Um, and then you go down and there's, um, you know, hips and all kinds of stuff. I mean, it's just really neat the way that it was done and a lot of work was put into that. So I applaud them for that for sure.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, it really looks well laid out, very interesting to me. One of the questions I had really on your question of taking the osteology course, were you working with like intact long bones, for example? Because this database is made especially to identify and catalog fragmentary remains. And that seems like an order of magnitude harder for a beginning osteologist, a beginning student.
00:14:59
Speaker
to get under a relatively short training session. This isn't honest, I don't know. This isn't pregnant with anything. I don't know how accurate that can be. I would really love to have a better understanding of what kind of accuracy you can expect from a student that's had a limited amount of training in identifying fragmentary remains. It's hard enough to get a long bone sighted, right? How are you going to do it with a fragment of a long bone?
00:15:29
Speaker
for example. Well, and it might just be that they were first tackling, is this a long bone or is it a rib or is it a skull fragment or something like that? Because that, even with small fragments, you can typically tell with relative certainty that what you're looking at there, you can classify it at that higher level. And maybe that's what they were doing with some of this stuff. I don't know, because you're right. I mean, trying to ask a student who just learned about all these bones,
00:15:54
Speaker
First off, how to even classify it at that high level, which is difficult, not impossible if you know the small attributes of these things. But then, I mean, siding is right out. I mean, I don't think you can side a long bone off a fragment unless it's the right fragment. And then trying to figure out where on the long bone it is. Again, not impossible, but can be really, really, really difficult even for experienced people. Even if you've got all these nice graphical images here and you can just place it right on the thing and say, oh, it looks like this. What are the chances that you're right?
00:16:24
Speaker
Well, there's a certain, and this is actually, I'm gonna pick up on this on my app of the day segment at the end of this episode today, but laid out properly, there is the idea of the expert system, right? It's been around for a few decades, expert systems having computer worlds, but you start out with simple questions and you drill in to more complex ones and you help the person that may not know
00:16:47
Speaker
at a quick glance that yes, this is a human rib to get to that answer fairly quickly and fairly accurately too. So I'm guessing that the layout here of this particular database helps to at least some extent beyond just showing the pictures at getting the researcher to drill in and to get to the right answer to make the right measurements that are necessary then.
00:17:15
Speaker
Well, we've got some more to talk about on this, and I think we're going to pick that up on the other side of the break. We're not going to need the full time to talk about the other topic I wanted to bring up. But I did want to mention as we go out here that she said that their next step is finding some sort of open access platform that's not operating system dependent. Open access doesn't necessarily mean it's operating system independent. So just putting that out there.
00:17:40
Speaker
You can have something that's open access that only runs on Mac computers because it's still coded for a certain type of software, a certain type of environment. So just letting that sit for a minute. All right, let's take a break. And when we come back, we'll finish up this discussion and then we'll talk about the cloud. Back in a second.
00:17:59
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:19:23
Speaker
Hi, welcome back to episode 106 of the Architect Podcast. Today, we are discussing a recent article, Advances in Documentation of Commingled and Fragmentary Remains by Anna J. Osterholz. It's discussing the database that she wrote, a whole database management system in FileMaker Pro and has been using successfully on a number of sites and a number of various projects.
00:19:45
Speaker
tens of thousands of samples to record. And so it's really interesting to me that she mentions a few times the conflict in database design between generalized systems on the one hand and others that are designed specific for individual projects. And it's interesting to me in the fact that this is something we've mentioned, you've mentioned specifically with Wild Note,
00:20:09
Speaker
We, again, to bring up that episode in episode 95 where they were using tablet-based recording systems for ceramics, they had a generalized system, Fames, that with some programming were adapting for their individual
General vs Project-Specific Databases
00:20:23
Speaker
projects. And this just seems to be a recurrent theme that people are trying to straddle this, that nobody really wants to build a customized database ground up for every project. Everybody's realizing that this is kind of
00:20:34
Speaker
waste of everybody's time and it fraught with problems. But the fully generalized one is still not quite there. It may never be there. So everybody's grappling with how to build a framework that gets you 90% of the way there and then tweak the extra 10% for individual projects.
00:20:52
Speaker
And in the case of Dr. Austenholz's database, she'd tweaked it for various projects, including what really caught my eye was adapted the human osteological database for one for funnel analysis. And that was cool. I mean, I would have liked to have known more how exactly that was done, but the fact that that was brought up even in passing in the article does show that it looks like she's on to something about how you can build and structure these databases.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah, if the graphics on here truly are interactive, that would be the hard bit to adapt to another database like that because you have to change all the graphics and then change the little squares over the top that help you program in your areas and things like that. I've done that a little bit in FileMaker and it's tedious, but if you spend a lot of time making it right, then you'll save an order of magnitude of time on the backend.
00:21:45
Speaker
in actual data collection and analysis. So I would just mention that it can be something to keep in mind. Now, if you take this database and you develop it, like she's got it here, and you send it off to somebody else, they can do whatever they want with it. They can start from their own ground zero and create whatever they want. But if you're using it internally on maybe one project with several different recording
00:22:07
Speaker
areas, I guess, or things that you recorded, like maybe you have a human assemblage and a final assemblage on the same site, which is obviously common, and you're using this database for both. When you're adapting those things, I would say just be careful what you're adapting, because if you're just changing out the images and maybe some terms and things like that, that's fine, but I wouldn't want the databases to diverge too much. This divergent evolution concept
00:22:30
Speaker
because I would want them to be more compatible throughout time and not have to have two big animals to deal with, have just one big animal and one does one thing and one does the other thing, and maybe make changes in both as you go along that are applicable to both databases. For example, having one person manage both rather than having two different people that are just making changes throughout and all of a sudden nobody can fix it when those two people leave.
00:22:55
Speaker
Because you got to think of that too. How is this thing repairable? Is it maintainable? People like to create this stuff, but they don't like to think of the long-term maintenance of it. And what happens when FileMaker 16 comes out and breaks this functionality you put in and nobody knows how to fix it. You know, you guys have to worry about that. It's another problem that she mentions with going with a proprietary software to begin with, like FileMaker. You're beholden to FileMaker to not screw your project up.
00:23:18
Speaker
You're beholden to FileMaker to not make a serious programming change, which they probably won't, but it's their program. It's actually owned by Apple, FileMaker is, so they could just kill it at any point when they decide it's not profitable. And all of a sudden, everything you've done with it is unsupported.
00:23:35
Speaker
That's one of the big issues I had when I worked with Codify, to be honest, was it was built on the FileMaker platform. And I was like, what if Apple just pulls the plug? I mean, it's unlikely, but what if they just pull the plug or somebody else buys it and decides to go another direction? I mean, business is business. And in the end, it's just numbers. And you suffer for it when you're beholden to somebody else and you can't get your data out easily when that happens. So it's just something to keep in mind when you're going with a platform like this or when you're developing these databases.
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, the development of using FileMaker. And I certainly can understand this because I started out building databases in FileMaker and my first couple of databases I structured for my own project were built off of FileMaker. I moved on to MySQL primarily afterwards because
00:24:23
Speaker
Well, because I learned SQL and I really, really, really liked it. But she specifically says that she started with FileMaker because it allowed her to use her limited programming skills to actually build something functional. And that's absolutely a valid reason to do something, to pick something that does have trade-offs. And she acknowledges what some of the trade-offs are for using FileMaker.
00:24:43
Speaker
But the trade-off then is you can build something fairly easily, you get a lot of things along with it, the visual aspect of it. As we said, this is a very visually appealing database front end, the one that Dr. Austenholz put together. And she could do it quickly, she could do it efficiently and didn't have to learn programming language or something else. The other trade-offs then, like you said, if you should gone with MySQL or PostgreSQL,
00:25:07
Speaker
You get a certain amount of longevity because it's not owned or controlled by a single company. I mean, MySQL is owned by Oracle, but it's already been forked to MariaDB, which is a fully open source. And the data themselves, getting data in and out isn't necessarily proprietary. But what you lose then is what she mentioned, the programming. You don't have a front end for that. Or if you do have a front end, usually they're fairly
00:25:34
Speaker
strip down and text oriented and not something that you could do like this one appears to be with all the images and everything and if you want all that and
00:25:41
Speaker
Well, that brings in a fair amount of programming skill and that's the other side of the coin, isn't it? There's no easy one size fits all answer for these, but she did in a couple of places in the article mention that she'd rather move it to more cross-platform platforms, database platform, presumably things like MySQL or PostgreSQL.
00:26:06
Speaker
So it'd be interesting to see if that's actually something that she does in the future or if that turns out to be too big of a hurdle to convert what she's using successfully now into something else and to continue along with FileMaker. And I'm just going to bring this in passing. And you brought this up a little bit about downloading the database.
00:26:25
Speaker
FileMaker can run in a couple of different ways. You can either have a database file or a group of files, even, that tell the database engine, FileMaker, the application, how to run and how to import and export data, how to connect them, and so on. Or you can bundle that up into a standalone, into a runtime, I believe is what they call them.
00:26:45
Speaker
It becomes a standalone application that contains all the bits and pieces all on one thing. Those you can redistribute. I don't know how she's using it. I guess if I've gone and downloaded the file, I would know pretty quickly. But those are two different ways and they also bring their own trade-offs. One can be tweaked pretty easily and the other one can't, but one can be distributed really easily and the other one can't.
00:27:12
Speaker
Lots of trade-offs when we deal with databases. Yeah. All right. Well, I would say before we transition to another topic, maybe send us a comment. What are you using to record in the field? Did you create a database using somebody else's? Did you take a look at this article and you're using a visual database like they are? I don't know.
00:27:33
Speaker
liking what she did with that and how that looks. And I can see the applicability to historic and prehistoric artifacts as well. I've really thought about having a visual way to nail down what you have and then identify things based on visual properties. Now she's using her visualizations to look at something and say, where on this does your piece fit? But I'm thinking of it more of a
00:27:54
Speaker
I have a tin can or something like that. And then as soon as I get a little far down in the decision tree and it knows I'm talking about a specific types of cans, it can start showing me pictures on the screen. And I basically just slide through until I find the one that I have and that's it. And there's no ambiguity. It's like, do I need to know what the side seam is and also other stuff? No, just use a visual database and go from there.
00:28:15
Speaker
All right, well, let's move on and shift gears a little bit here. And I say a little bit because we're still talking about digital archaeology. And tell you what, if you got a database, it's got to store it somewhere. And chances are it's stored on a computer. But if that computer dies, you'd rather it was somewhere else. So maybe you stored it in a cloud server or something like that. And maybe you stored it on a website that has a backbone of Amazon Web Services. And if you're like, oh, I'm not ever going to use Amazon, I don't like that. Well, keep in mind that
00:28:43
Speaker
a very high percentage of the internet is stored on Amazon servers. I don't know if anybody knows that or not, but when you really start digging in, AWS is what it's called, is like the backbone of the internet for almost the entire planet. I mean, a lot of websites are on AWS. And what that means is they're stored there, because people don't store websites typically on their computer in their office, because when you shut your computer off,
00:29:10
Speaker
your website's down, right? So you store it on these things that you pay for server space, basically, so they can handle millions of millions of millions of hits to your traffic because they've developed the infrastructure for that. And then also, people can access your stuff, obviously, 24 hours a day through 65 days a year, and it's all on there and it's usable.
Archaeological Data Storage Concerns
00:29:30
Speaker
Now, the reason I'm bringing this up is because I had a client recently mention something that I've heard many times before, which is basically they're concerned with where their data are stored. And are they stored outside of their home country? I've heard people say, is it stored outside of my own state? Because that is a concern with
00:29:49
Speaker
I want to say old paper-based archaeology. For example, I work here in Nevada and I worked for a company that actually got taken a task a little bit because Native American artifacts were recorded and then taken back to their home office in California and they crossed state lines. The artifacts, the notes, the site records, everything crossed state lines because that's where the company was based. So that's what they were doing the analysis and everyone flipped out and said, you can't do that.
00:30:14
Speaker
And I think we have the British to blame for this, to be honest, because everything's in the British Museum, and they should probably have nothing. But yeah. And so that's kind of where this comes from, is the thought that, well, you've got these foreign, and foreign can be out of state or out of country, but you've got these foreign archaeologists and scientists coming in, recording stuff, and then taking the data back to their own countries to do analysis or whatever. And how do we know it's ever going to get back? And that's where really these laws and regulations come into play.
00:30:43
Speaker
Well, I just don't think that applies anymore when you talk about digital archaeology because I'm looking at a 2015 map for Amazon Web Services servers and it was actually leaked by WikiLeaks because they don't want people to know where these things are because if one of these goes down, well, they're in a huge role to hurt.
00:31:04
Speaker
So I'm looking at this map and a client that I was talking to that's actually in Australia was concerned with data leaving Australia and there's a data center in Australia. Now here's the other kicker here. There's no guarantee that the data that you're putting on AWS is actually on the closest server to you.
00:31:21
Speaker
It's on whatever server was easiest for the data to get to at that point in time. And it's possible that you've got 10 pieces of data stored on 10 different servers, right? I mean, that's just how the internet works. Serves it up to you super quick. So I don't know, Paul, do you have anything to say on this? I just wanted to point out to people that this whole concept of my data is not within my country's boundaries. Doesn't really apply anymore. I mean, what do you think about that?
00:31:45
Speaker
Well, the European Union has a lot to say on that lately. I mean, last year there was the new laws that pertained and really have been bothering companies like Google and Facebook who are major backbones of the internet also about how Europeans' data gets stored and how people can opt out of having their data stored. And so it became
00:32:09
Speaker
a European concern became a very big international concern very quickly over that. So if you have concerns about which country your data are hosted, and actually, I wanted
AWS and Internet Infrastructure
00:32:20
Speaker
to mention one thing. When you said AWS is a big part of the internet now,
00:32:24
Speaker
A year, year and a half ago, there was an outage over part of AWS and it took down lots of companies' websites for a day or day and a half. I can't remember now, but it affected a lot of people other than just Amazon and companies that didn't know they had any part of it because they borrowed some service or they used some library that itself was hosted on Amazon and was no longer accessible.
00:32:53
Speaker
And so it's interconnected. The world's interconnected in a lot of ways that you don't necessarily know and consider beforehand. I did want to mention one thing though. Again, this isn't archaeology, but it does relate to data and how one stores it. I was helping one of the school psychologists here and she very deliberately, she uses Evernote for taking notes when she meets with students. And Evernote is also cloud-based and you store things up in the cloud, but she's very worried about HIPAA compliance.
00:33:24
Speaker
because Evernote is not HIPAA compliant. So any of the notes that she takes from her meetings with students, she does not store up in the cloud from Evernote. She stores them locally. And you can do that with Evernote. It's a bit of a workaround, bit of a pain, but they allow it.
00:33:39
Speaker
If you are under some sort of restriction legal of where you can store your data, you have to be aware that using whatever the default system is of whatever data collection you're using might not actually be in compliance legally with what you're supposed to be doing.
The Importance of Data Encryption
00:33:57
Speaker
I don't have a good answer for it. It's something that we have to think about more and more frequently, right?
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah, one of the ways around that too is encryption because if you encrypt the data before it leaves your device or it's encrypted automatically before it leaves your device and hits the AWS servers, well, it's encrypted on the AWS servers. So if somebody were to hack one of those and then look at your projectile points and where they're located,
00:34:21
Speaker
then they wouldn't be able to see it unless they broke the encryption. Most encryption these days is unbreakable by all but the most powerful computers. That's not that big of a deal. It's end-to-end encryption too. If I'm encrypted over here and I'm sending it to somebody else and it's crossing AWS servers, the person on the other end needs to have the same encryption key to decrypt the data once it gets to their end. That is one way around it to make sure everything is encrypted.
00:34:48
Speaker
when it leaves your servers. And specific applications you're using and other things like that, that's how they do that. Now, something like Evernote could be encrypted on the servers that Evernote uses, but that doesn't mean Evernote employees can't see what you're doing. That doesn't mean they can't see. I mean, I don't know if they can or not, but you'd have to find that out specifically. If Evernote needs to say troubleshoot something on their system, and it happens to be with a piece of data that you have, well, can they just go in and
00:35:16
Speaker
see your notes and see what you've got in there. And if that, if they can, are you okay with that? You know, do you have stuff that's sensitive that could get you in trouble if somebody else sees it? I mean, chances are somebody else, I don't want to be too conspiracy theorist. You know, somebody doing something with those data is pretty unlikely and more than likely they're just going in to fix something. But still, you know, we have these concerns that we have to think about.
00:35:37
Speaker
All right. Well, I just wanted to mention that. Again, I don't have a lot to say on this and I'm not an expert in it, but I did want to have people thinking about it because I'm just, as long as you're encrypted and things are going smoothly with whatever application you're using, that I don't think it's too much of a concern from a digital archeology standpoint to think, well, where actually are my data?
00:35:59
Speaker
because it's beneficial to you to not have it stored in one location, even one server farm. There's a lot of server farms in San Francisco, and you know what? San Francisco could catastrophically suffer from an earthquake at any moment, and then it's all gone. I know, if it's not backed up on other servers in other places, and that's the other benefit of using one of these big services, is your servers might go down in one country, but all those websites went down because AWS went down when one server farm died.
00:36:29
Speaker
Chances are it was right back up again after not too long a period of time because none of the data was actually lost. It just had to be found again and rerouted because there were probably multiple copies on other servers. And the problem with that is you might have one file that's, you can't think of it like a loaf of bread. That's your file. But then you slice that into slices and each one of these slices is in a different server farm. And then you duplicate those slices and there's 10 of each slice in 10 different server farms. Well, it takes a minute to bring all that back together.
00:36:59
Speaker
There's code and stuff like that to tell you where all those pieces are and how to bring them back together. Usually, they don't have to worry about it because the servers don't go down very often. When they do go down, now it's got to all come back together and find it again. That was probably a very simplistic explanation of how that works. I think that's the basics of it. The internet is not like a truck. It's not like tubes. It's like a loaf of bread. Got it.
00:37:22
Speaker
The internet is a loaf of bread. Where's your slice? I won't put that on t-shirt. All right. Okay, so let's take our final break and come back with our app of the day segment in which I follow Paul's lead very often and I don't actually have an app. I have a thing. So we'll be back in a second.
00:37:45
Speaker
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00:38:04
Speaker
Hi, welcome back to the Archeotech podcast, episode 106.
Audubon Bird Guide App
00:38:08
Speaker
Now we're at the app of the day segment and I'm going to lead out with one called the Audubon Bird Guide. This is available on iOS and Android. And interestingly, if you go to the website, it's also, even though it's a variant of Android, you can download it directly to your Amazon Fire on the Amazon store. I only bring that up because if you have an Amazon Fire, as I do,
00:38:30
Speaker
and you want to get a lot of Android programs, sometimes you have to go through some rigmarole in order to get things from the Google Play Store onto it. So they have a way of getting it fairly directly through Amazon. Anyhow, what this is, if you couldn't guess by the name and who it's by, it's a field guide for birds. And I think that it actually plays in nicely because we're talking about expert systems, we're talking about programs that you
00:38:56
Speaker
put in a limited amount of information and they ask you fairly simple questions and drill into more and more specific kinds of questions to help you come to a good answer. And that's definitely what this is. Field guides, we've all used different field guides for birds. Myself, I've got a very ragged, dog-eared, sun-bleached copy of
00:39:19
Speaker
of Peterson's field guide sitting in the window in the country house with binoculars right next to it. And I've forever used that. And most of the time I actually can identify birds. I just know them for some reason. I'm not a birder per se, but birds, I've always been able to see and identify pretty quickly. But this spring, there's been a lot of
00:39:44
Speaker
a lot of different birds that I see that I don't normally see. So in the mornings when I walk to work, I walk through Central Park and I've seen a whole bunch, especially small songbirds that I don't recognize. And so I downloaded this app in order to hopefully identify some of them.
00:39:59
Speaker
I am yet to find ones, a few of the oddballs. And I think that's because I haven't used it nearly enough to really get comfortable with it. Anyhow, the program you downloaded, one of the first things it has you do is set up an account. It just asked for an email address, no login, no password. It sends you an email, but I didn't have to click through to confirm. So I'm not sure what they're doing other than
00:40:22
Speaker
calling my email address there. So if that bothers you, you might want to avoid it. I don't think that having my email address really affects the way the program works. It has a number of different tabs. It asks you to use your camera. It asks to use
00:40:38
Speaker
your location and in both those cases, you probably want to do that because that'll help increase your likelihood of correct identification of birds. You can explore, it shows you a map and shows a number of different sightings that people have had recently of various kinds of birds in your area. All very cool, I think.
00:41:03
Speaker
You can add your own sightings. Actually, one of the first things it does too after it asks for your password or not password for your email is that it asks if you want to download the entire database. It has about 350 megs of images and videos and bird songs and such they can download. So if you're taking this out into the field, you're out in the woods somewhere and you're out of cell reception.
00:41:26
Speaker
you can still use the app with its locally downloaded database. I think that's an interesting feature they built into it. I don't ever really go anyplace outside of cell reception that I would reuse something, so I didn't bother doing it now. But if it turns out that I do in the future, I'll certainly be doing that.
00:41:45
Speaker
The main part of it though, the main part of this app is the field guide and you can sort by family, you can sort alphabetically, but the important thing is a button that's got in the upper left, it's kind of a little icon of a bird face and that's where it gets into the expert system. So there are a number of big black and white buttons across it that you can filter by size, color, bird type, activity, habitat, voice, wing shape, tail shape,
00:42:13
Speaker
You get where we're going with this, you know, so I look up I saw a little and unfortunately it was about a week ago now I can't remember if it was greenish or grayish but tiny birds smaller than a sparrow Now maybe about a sparrow size. So I click on the sides here and it's a sparrow And then maybe I want to to go and filter some more so I hit back here I'm gonna filter by color and I'll add a
00:42:38
Speaker
Oh, black, gray, white. It was probably tan, I'll say, and it was also yellow. So I can, it had a little bit of a yellow tuft on top of its head, not really a crest. Anyhow, the point is I can filter and I filter now down at the bottom that I put a size and I put in two different colors and it knows where I am. It knows I'm in New York.
00:43:01
Speaker
It says that I've got 12 possible matches and so I can look here and their tiles now with with a bunch of different birds that you know based off the information I gave it look like they might fit the bill and Hmm not Seeing it here. But again, it was a week ago. So my memory is a little hazy of the colors on the bird I just knew that it was something very unusual that I couldn't recognize on-site and
00:43:27
Speaker
So I'm going to play with this some more and hopefully I can zero in on what this particular bird was and maybe I'll see a few other interesting birds tomorrow morning when I'm walking back across the park. It may have been this one, Seaside Sparrow. I'm not by the seaside, but it kind of looked like that.
00:43:44
Speaker
Anyhow, this one appealed to me because it uses kind of expert systems, which I think computers are especially well suited to. It runs on your phone, obviously. It's app of the day, although, of course, your app today is not going to be a phone-based one.
00:44:02
Speaker
You carry it along and it gives some very distinct value for someone like me that wants to identify animals as I go around, as I see them during the day. It also appeals to that citizen science aspect that we've touched on with various apps of the day in the past.
00:44:17
Speaker
and I think is a very valuable way of leveraging these kinds of technologies, like the cell phones in particular, for increasing people, the sum whole of human knowledge, if we want to be a little dramatic about it. Do you think you'd have any use for something like this, Chris?
00:44:36
Speaker
Yeah, because I don't know anything about birds. So I think it'd be really cool because I like the idea to launch the bird ID thing. Because that would be the big thing for me if I'm just scrolling through a big list or something or even trying to look by categories. I have zero knowledge of how to do that. But if it was guiding me through the process to find something, I think they'd be pretty neat. And from an archaeological standpoint, often when we're out on sites,
00:45:01
Speaker
We tried to describe the current situation on sites, and that often involves, for most people, just vegetation. Because if we're standing there, chances are we've scared away any other animals around. But we also want to know, are there other animals around? And to be able to accurately identify those, and there's almost always birds around because they get real comfortable real fast. So you can scare away deer and stuff, but the birds will probably come back after you've been standing there for a few minutes.
00:45:24
Speaker
And they could be having an impact on the site and to be able to accurately identify the birds that you see offline is a pretty cool deal. Pretty cool for field archaeologists, I think. You wouldn't think you would want a bird identification app as a field archaeologist, but man, there's lots of stuff that will impact a site and birds picking up and running things around and maybe have the kind of bird that builds things for its nest so all the shiny objects are gone.
00:45:47
Speaker
You know, uh, it'd be good to know that, you know, it's good to know, Hey, where's all the fun stuff out here? Oh, it's in this bird nest, you know, a hundred feet away. So.
00:45:57
Speaker
Well, and also, as you alluded to earlier when you were talking about can identification in the main segment of this episode, looking at a program like this, one could get good ideas for how one can develop something specifically for field archaeologists for identifying common types of artifacts or the uncommon types of artifacts for that matter.
00:46:19
Speaker
I suppose. But to help people drill in and get to the right answer, seeing this as an example, you wouldn't have to do it exactly the same. Obviously, you wouldn't have bird songs for tin cans. But it gives one a good idea for how to structure and lay out a program. And again, this one here, it's very easy to use. And in the limited time that I've been playing with it, I know it's going to stay on my phone. I'm going to use it a lot. Nice.
00:46:43
Speaker
Cool. All right. Well, that's fun. Um, I like to know if anybody else is using any other kinds of apps that aren't specifically archeology related like this for identification stuff. We've talked about apps like leaf snap in the past where you can identify plants and things, which I've had variable success with now. I haven't used it in a few years, but, uh, something like that. I wonder if there's something like this for mammals. Um, I've never really looked, but it'd be interesting to see.
00:47:09
Speaker
if there was. Mammals and other types of snakes, other kinds of things that you see in the field. Snakes is a big one. Everybody seems to know what snakes look like. I mean, I can identify a rattlesnake because chances are it's up on its haunters and about to kill you. So that's pretty easy to identify. But other stuff, it's like I have a rudimentary knowledge of what these things look like and it'd be really nice to have a field guide for that kind of stuff.
00:47:31
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'd mentioned iNaturalist on a previous episode maybe a year ago or so. We'll look it up and put it in the show notes, but that was another similar sort of app. And maybe I'd like to look at these two head to head because I have not used iNaturalist at all, though it's still on my phone. I would like to see how it compares against the Autobahn Field Guide, which is more of a traditional field guide.
00:47:56
Speaker
Right. All right. Well, I guess we will move on to something that doesn't have an app at all, which is a little odd. But I do like to talk about stuff in this segment that I think are a benefit to people that listen to this podcast. And obviously, things have a little more high tech bent to them. So we'll go that direction. But one of the things I've been looking at for a really long time, and it's more tied to the fact that my wife and I are now sharing a vehicle, and not that big of a deal when we're in town
Rad Power Bikes for Archaeologists
00:48:23
Speaker
most of the time. But there's one or two days out of the week where
00:48:26
Speaker
She gets off work at a time that's really close to when I need to be somewhere, usually Civil Air Patrol, and it's just really difficult maintaining that. Now, I have a pretty nice Trek road bicycle, but you know what? The problem with that thing is it's not super comfortable to ride if you're just commuting and you've got a backpack on.
00:48:46
Speaker
If you're dressed up in your kit, you've got your jersey and shorts on, then it's a great bike to ride for hours at a time. But when I don't want to put the shoes on and I have my backpack and it's going side to side and I'm leaned over on this bike and I'm riding through town where you really need to be up and facing traffic most of the time when you're through town, my road bike just is not conducive to being a daily commuter that way.
00:49:09
Speaker
which is why I haven't done it. I only work about 1.25 miles or so, a little bit less than that from my office to my home here. So that's not that big a deal. But if I want to go to Civil Air Patrol, it's across town and it's on the other side of the airport for me. And sure, that's still only about six or seven miles, but it's through some pretty heavy traffic and things like that. So I've been looking at having a different bicycle now, of course.
00:49:32
Speaker
If anybody knows me, I'm not going to get just like a regular mountain bike or something like that. That's why I started looking at e-bikes. Yeah. Paul, I don't know if you've clicked on the link yet that I left in our little notes. I'm right there, yeah. Yeah. I bought the Rad City, which is an electric commuter bike from a company called Rad Power Bikes. And I don't actually remember where I first saw Rad Power Bikes, but they're out of Seattle, actually. And I've been looking at e-bikes for probably the last year or so.
00:50:00
Speaker
And especially when I lived in downtown Reno and especially after the line bikes came out, although they've taken all the line bikes away now because Reno couldn't handle it. I've been looking at these as more of a long distance computer because it's not that I can't handle, you know, biking for an hour, you know, to get somewhere, but most of the time I just don't want to. I just don't have the time, you know? If I'm going out for a bike ride for exercise, that's a very different mindset than I want to get from point A to point B and I don't want to Uber, right? I just want to grab my bike and I want to go.
00:50:28
Speaker
So these bikes from Rad Power Bikes in particular are really well built. They're sturdy. I mean, this bike that I got, it's actually 60 pounds with the battery installed. The battery itself is about 25 pounds, which is way heavier than you'd ever buy in an ordinary bike, right?
00:50:44
Speaker
But it's got a 750 watt motor, which is the maximum limit. And you can still call it an e-bike when they go over that the most cities reclassify them, which is why the 750 watt motor is the biggest you can get. And the battery, I mean, everything is just really well put together on this thing. Now we just got it yesterday and I actually wrote it here and I had to write it back home to, we had a washer and dryer delivered and I had to.
00:51:04
Speaker
you know, ride it back here. Um, I can comfortably do 20 to 25 miles per hour on this thing with little to no effort. I mean, I'm still pedaling. It's not a motorcycle. Um, but it's just, you're maintaining your pedal speed and all that stuff going up hills around corners, you know, your, your start to, um, uh, to speed time, you know, like zero to 20 is really fast and efficient. If you're in traffic, you know, you're not wobbling all around and getting up to speed. Like you might be on a regular bicycle. Um,
00:51:33
Speaker
It's just way more efficient for getting in traffic and in field. And then this 2019 version has a really nice bright LED headlight on the front that's run off the battery. And it's got a brake light that turns on when you turn the headlight on. And the brake light activates like a brake light. It gets brighter when you do either one of the brakes. And that's pretty neat, too. I'm actually going to be trying that out tonight. I've got a podcast class I'm teaching. And I'm going to be done with this in the dark. So it'll be the first time I've written it in the dark. And we'll see exactly how the lights work.
00:52:01
Speaker
I got to say, I'm pretty much in love with this thing right now. It's such a great bike. It's, like I said, well put together. I really like it. Now, what does this have to do with archaeologists? Well, not a whole lot, but I think that when you come back from the field, maybe you don't have a second car. Maybe your only vehicle is a field vehicle and it's dirty. It's a truck, something like that. You want something to commute around town in.
00:52:23
Speaker
you don't want to maybe get out a traditional bicycle because maybe you're doing longer distances or something like that and you don't want to show up sweaty to wherever you're going and you just want to get from point A to point B. I think take a look at one of these e-bikes because all the big name brands I've looked at before this
00:52:41
Speaker
or anywhere from $2,500 to $5,000 because the battery is built into the frame. It's custom built kind of thing. They're big bulky bikes. They're nice. Don't get me wrong, but everything's all built in and it's just, you know, it's the big names and they just, they're just so expensive. And then I saw these, this rad city bike is $1,499 and you can get it for as little as 91 bucks a month. It says right here with 0% interest rate. So
00:53:05
Speaker
It's just a, it's just a great buy. Um, I can't report back on the battery just yet, although they do say it's not the kind that builds up a memory, which is nice. So you can charge it as many times as you want, you know, use it a little bit, throw it back on the charger. Um, and it's just got a nice, simple wall charger. You pull it off the bike or leave it on the bike. Doesn't matter. And, uh, um, and charge it that way.
00:53:24
Speaker
That's another thing I like about it is the batteries are removable. So you can take it off and bring it in the house and then charge it up. You don't have to bring the whole bike in the house or, you know, bring the charger out to the bike or something like that. Like, like some of them are. So yeah, not an app, but tech, high tech and, uh, in keeping with this podcast. So I think.
00:53:44
Speaker
I think if you want another, another mode of transportation that'll get you, you know, 20 to 40 miles on a charge and, uh, somewhat effortlessly, then, uh, you know, check it out. Yeah, it looks pretty cool. All right. Yeah. Have you ever thought about getting an e-bike, Paul?
00:53:58
Speaker
No, I don't have much need for it. The e-bikes are really popular in the city here, especially amongst delivery men. Most of the delivery men, the bicycle deliveries for the restaurants, they're whizzing around at them all the time. We also have city bikes here, which are the racks of rental bikes. They came in a couple of years ago and have really taken over.
00:54:24
Speaker
For a bit there they they started releasing e-bikes and people really really loved them And then they took them all away because they're gonna reintroduce them this fall, but you have to pay extra for them They got everybody hooked took them away and then they're gonna reintroduce for money and Some people are a little upset about that because they love them so much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I
00:54:50
Speaker
I will say, man, if you're in a delivery situation or maybe you've got kids or something like that, take a look at the Rad Wagon. It's one of the only bikes that's a little bit more expensive. I think it's just a hundred dollars more, but this thing is a beast. It's still got the 750 plot motor because that's the limit, but it's got a much bigger battery in it and a bigger payload capacity because of the way the thing is built.
00:55:13
Speaker
The image they have here is a woman with a child sitting on the back, but they have attachments for like, you know, big baskets and all kinds of stuff. So for hauling around and delivering pizzas, I don't know what you're going to do with it, but it looks like a station wagon of a bike.
00:55:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's a beast. It's definitely a beast. But then somebody like you, Paul, that lives in the city, there's the Rad Mini and it's the same price as the one I got. And it's a folding bike. It'll fold in half. Yeah. That's the one that would be most appealing to me. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't take up a lot of space. So that's one thing with this one. I got the 19 inch and I'll tell you what, this thing is enormous. I mean, this bike is huge. It takes up a lot of space. It's long. It's tall.
00:55:53
Speaker
It's not for somebody who doesn't have a place to store them. So keep that in mind. All right. Well, I think that's enough non-archaeological things somewhat. So let's go ahead and kill this here. As I mentioned in the last segment, let us know what kind of database you're using. We're curious to see what you guys are doing in the field to solve your digital data collection problems and how you're dealing with long-term usability of these databases and things like that. And maybe we'll bring you on the podcast to have a discussion about it and talk about how things are going.
00:56:23
Speaker
Yeah, I'd love to hear real-world examples. Yeah for sure. So all right. Well, that's all I've got Paul Thanks for joining me this week as usual. Thank you Chris. All right, and we'll see you guys next time. Take care
00:56:41
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Archaeotech Podcast. Links to items mentioned on the show are in the show notes at www.archpodnet.com slash archaeotech. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com and paul at lugall.com. Support the show by becoming a member at archpodnet.com slash members. The music is a song called Off Road and is licensed free from Apple. Thanks for listening.
00:57:07
Speaker
This show is produced and recorded by the Archaeology Podcast Network, Chris Webster and Tristan Boyle in Reno, Nevada at the Reno Collective. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.
00:57:28
Speaker
Thanks again for listening to this episode and for supporting the Archaeology Podcast Network. If you want these shows to keep going, consider becoming a member for just $7.99 US dollars a month. That's cheaper than a venti quad eggnog latte. Go to archpodnet.com slash members for more info.