Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Conferences & Community: A Chat with Henri Helvetica
0 Plays2 seconds ago
In this episode I chat with Henri Helvetica, a performance engineer and active member of the web community. We dive into the significance of conferences and meetups, and how COVID-19 has affected in-person events. Henri offers insights on event organizing, the need for new in-person experiences, and what makes a good event. We also explore the value of community and networking, and how to find events and meetups in today's landscape.
Give Henri a follow!
- Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/henrihelvetica.bsky.social
- Linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/henri-helvetica
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/henrihelvetica
- X: https://x.com/henrihelvetica
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'General Musings'
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, my friend and friends, and welcome to my podcast, General Musings. My name is Kevin, and in this podcast, I talk about whatever is front of mind for me in any given week, usually in some way that's related to front-end development. This week, I'm not on my own for this conversation. I'm here with Ariel Vardica.
00:00:13
Speaker
And yeah,
Ariel's Journey in Performance Engineering
00:00:14
Speaker
welcome. Thank you so much for coming to join me. I am super delighted to be here, and I could be i could not be happier that you reached out and you know in a little classic DM, and i was all in. Yeah.
00:00:27
Speaker
Yeah. So i first of all, are you doing? How's everything? I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for asking. As I mentioned moments ago, it's it's a Monday. It's a really beautiful day in Toronto, ah which is where I'm at.
00:00:40
Speaker
And ah man, I can't complain. you know i yeah As I like to say, ah have very little reason to complain. So I'm good. Awesome. Awesome. ah For those who don't know you, you're primarily a performance engineer, but you're also really heavily involved in the web community at large. You run meetups, you're a speaker at conferences.
00:01:01
Speaker
Is there anything else that I'm missing there, the other things you're up to as well? As we like to say in French, grosso modo, that's kind of I... a um Yeah, I love the performance spaces, which is where I kind of, you know, sat and just, you know, I'm there to this very day.
00:01:20
Speaker
i always found that early on, it was a space that was very well understood, and certainly not discussed a lot. And this is a while back.
Networking and Conference Experiences
00:01:28
Speaker
And, you know, I sort of like, got my chops sort of like reading books and stuff and following some people online etc etc and as you mentioned as well i i do uh i've attended you know some conferences in the past quite a few and i think um there are few reasons why i did that uh but uh one of them is certainly just you know wanting to see people and and understand how you know
00:01:54
Speaker
particular, you know, things operate in the space. But at the end of the day, community as well, you know, getting to run into cats, seeing where people come from, um things that they're working on, how communities are in different parts of the world.
00:02:07
Speaker
If you have an opportunity, these things are are pretty interesting and also kind of revealing. but satisfying at the very least, you know, because again, you get to sort of like meet people potentially where they are and get a sense of, you know, how things operate in their in their parts of the world.
00:02:26
Speaker
So you've attended a few, I think a few is probably an understatement. Actually, I'm curious, when did you start sort of in the conference scene and all of that? Hmm. I'm going to say ah maybe like 2017 or so, something.
00:02:42
Speaker
you know attended few for sure. And again, ah a while back in you know some of the industries I was in, I remember really realizing that whatever industry you're in, i think going to a particular conference or a trade show will really give you an idea of the space. I would try to attend conferences when I could.
00:03:03
Speaker
um And I remember telling people, like, sometimes it's a bit of a cheat code, you know, being able to attend a conference and meet people and and particular speakers or engineers or developers, whatever, whatever.
00:03:18
Speaker
And ah listen to how or listen to what they talk about, seeing how they operate. um And I did that sometimes just by volunteering.
00:03:29
Speaker
You know, I knew that volunteering meant like, OK, I'm going to have to do X, Y and Z as a volunteer. But that also meant I could be a fly on the wall. And would just sort of like, listen, watch.
00:03:43
Speaker
Eventually, i thought that maybe I could present as well. and I believe that only because, again, I came from a particular industry where I used to have to present.
The Conference Persona: 'Helvetica'
00:03:55
Speaker
you know So I came from apparel, ah fashion apparel, however you want to call it. And i used to have to present to clients all the time. you know And some I knew because they were my clients, but at bigger trade shows,
00:04:10
Speaker
It didn't matter. It was like a a full room. They came to see the product that we had and I had to present period. So had a sense of what that was like. And so ah that being said, you know, being on a stage, big or small, didn't bother me too much. I didn't have too many jitters. Like I understand how people might.
00:04:34
Speaker
Uh, but you know, I just knew that I had like a pinch of confidence being up there cause I knew that was not really the biggest challenge, you know? Um, so, but yeah.
00:04:46
Speaker
Yeah, I remember before I even really knew who you were, i just knew, like, I was like, every time I'd see, because your name is really memorable, you know, like, it's Helvetica, and I'm like, oh, I wouldn't wonder what he does, but i I just kept seeing, like, your name, and, like, whenever I'd be looking at another conference, I'd be like, oh, Helvetica's there again, cool, and then eventually started seeing some of the stuff you were doing and other things, but um Yeah. So for me, it was like, I was just like, oh, I associated you. I didn't know what you were speaking about, but I was like, that's the conference speaker guy because he seems to be all over the place ah for a long time for me. Yeah.
00:05:19
Speaker
You know, I'll give you a quick story about the Helvetica Nord de Plume, because that's what it is ultimately. i never really wanted to use my born name for a couple reasons.
00:05:35
Speaker
And, you know, it's all kind of coming back now because I've always felt that at some point, ah like an association could be made between who you are and what you do.
00:05:49
Speaker
and And again, this I can get into the weeds, but I do believe that things can get complicated when you're out there as a conference speaker under your given name because, you know,
Organizing Events: Conferences vs. Music
00:06:04
Speaker
when you're crossing borders, especially, you can be quizzed on what you're doing why and things like that so I always wanted to disassociate conference speaker from passport and so and the non-replume also ah that was new that was a priority for me and that also came from experience in an other area I could talk about that a little later but I worked in music as well and I'd seen like the challenges
00:06:36
Speaker
But, you know, Henri Alvedica, I wanted something that was going to be memorable. ah My name is Henri, first name, first letter H. So I was like, H, H. I think it's kind of cool. And is I just knew it had this particular ring to it that people would remember.
00:06:55
Speaker
and And I think that worked. The only thing I didn't want to do and I was very fearful of is, you know, giving a talk some in in Switzerland one day because I just...
00:07:06
Speaker
i I'd be scared to just get booed off stage. They'd be like, Elvetica? How dare you? So i've I've avoided that part.
00:07:18
Speaker
yeah I've avoided Switzerland for that very reason. Funny story, a conference organizer out there once told me he'd love to have me, but they didn't like their budgets weren't aligned to have me over there.
00:07:34
Speaker
But I told him that I'd be pretty spooked to be in Switzerland and he laughed about it because he understood exactly what I was talking about. I just wanted to share that because I always thought that was kind of funny.
00:07:49
Speaker
ah But yeah, I think it's one of those things, it's like, Branding yourself, right? ah At some point, you've created a brand for yourself as well. And for me, was really having you know a particular brand that when you see and hear the name, you're like, oh, I know what that person is.
00:08:09
Speaker
you know And whatever I do after that is on me. Yeah,
Challenges and Innovations Post-Pandemic
00:08:14
Speaker
definitely worked since that's, ah you know, for me. that was yeah god um You mentioned a little bit there a bit earlier on when you were talking about ah the events and sort of the importance of them or why, I guess, why you'd like them and stuff it is is there after been doing it for so long now is there something that keeps drawing you in like it it is I've talked to other people some just want to keep speaking and a few other people are like I don't know if I'm going to keep doing this it's been a while you know and I'm um just curious what it is that keeps you coming back all the time
00:08:51
Speaker
I think it's discovery at the end of day, you know, seeing what's new, see what people are talking about. But also I tell people this all the time, you know, when I attend an event, I have a few hats on, you know, it's me as developer engineer, you know, representative of like the performance, you know, community and, and seeing where I can fit in in the conversation.
00:09:15
Speaker
But also, I like to see how conference organizers or event organizers are executing. You know, like, you know, what are they bringing that might be interesting? What have I seen before?
00:09:28
Speaker
ah Or, you know, layouts, venues, you know, these are things that I'm always processing. ah And, you know, it's a...
00:09:40
Speaker
Even like a presentation, you know, someone may have a really interesting presentation. They've, ah you know, structured it differently. The design of their deck, you know, these are things that I think ah I always sort of process.
00:09:55
Speaker
And ultimately, i go look at speakers, you know. I go see who's presenting, how they're presented. Is it something that I'd love to host myself, you know.
00:10:06
Speaker
um So there's this, you know, these levels of, I mean, I'm always processing the surroundings, you know, and from, like I mentioned, like the venue itself to the event execution to the people presenting, you know, were they funny? Were they great talks? Were they like, okay, cool. This was pretty good, you know?
00:10:30
Speaker
And I think that's important as someone who, uh, For the most part, I will say, yes, I do have an organizer hat and I like to put things together. So, you know, I'm always looking for, it's it's like I'm scouting, you know, like I'm the Montreal Canadiens and where i'm at Toronto Maple Leafs. Oh my God, pardon me, Maple Leafs.
00:10:51
Speaker
And, you know I'm looking for my next centerman, you know. And so I think that's ultimately pretty important if you are trying to um create a good in-person experience.
00:11:08
Speaker
And it's about, you know, having your eyes and ears open at all times and um And, you know, that is going to be part of the gig, looking for the next talented presenter.
00:11:23
Speaker
Just as, you know, i talked about the fact that music will overlap in our conversation. I could be a label A&R. You know, I have a good label. I have some good acts. I'm fine.
00:11:36
Speaker
But I'm out and about looking to see who's doing what and do I see potential, yeah right? And I think that's that's very important in in sort of like having that hat on and not necessarily constantly going for – You know, the same big names because, you know, hey, Taylor Swift has a huge following. So let me make sure I book her.
00:12:00
Speaker
That's totally cool. But, you know, who was paying attention to her when she was still like super young? Right. And hopefully, you know, you can find something like that. Yeah, that's actually interesting just because most people I talk to are more looking at it from like as a speaker or an attendee that's there either to learn more just because they're there or make the like connections and stuff. So interesting for you coming from the organizer point of view.
00:12:30
Speaker
I'm actually curious now about why you What is it that draws you to even like, it's a lot of effort I'm assuming to host an event or put on event organizing that side of things.
00:12:44
Speaker
Um, so like, I guess, you know, you could just do your performance stuff, be, you know, help companies out with that. What make, what draws you to wanting to organize events and help on that side of things.
00:12:55
Speaker
You know, a few things. um I believe that I remember what it was like attending meetups myself. You know, I was green, I was new, I was looking around, and I understood quickly what was taking place from learning something new, um but certainly to meeting people.
00:13:21
Speaker
And the networking was ah second to none, obviously. And I stand by that ah because there are some people that I've met, ah relationships that I've had strictly through the in-person experience.
00:13:37
Speaker
Obviously, that changed with the pandemic, and I'll get to that in a hot second. But um I think... In any industry, these things are important. Like that in-person handshake is completely different than like a, you know, talk to you soon email, right?
00:13:56
Speaker
And um I saw what potentially could happen by just attending meetups, right? Now, I also had, as I mentioned, a bit of like an organizer hat because I had done some of this in, because I worked in apparel, as I mentioned earlier, but I also had a foot in music for some years.
00:14:18
Speaker
And I had a bit of like the organizer bug already, having, you know, organized small shows, been on stage,
00:14:29
Speaker
ah and I saw a potential to translate that to the tech space. So that always had me pretty interested.
00:14:42
Speaker
And like anything else, you know everyone believes that they can bring their own twist to a you know whatever people are familiar with, whether it be like a small concert or a small meetup,
00:14:57
Speaker
Everyone thinks like, oh, you know what? My meetups are a little different because I do this, right? And so there's that challenge as well. You know, keeps an organizer kind of like thinking half the time.
00:15:10
Speaker
Like, hmm, how could i ah can I bring a little, you know, pizzazz to this? You know, how could I make it look and sound different? You know, and that could be from the venues you select, right?
00:15:22
Speaker
to the speakers that you bring up and how you curate the event as well. Right. Because I think and we can get to that as well. I think that's more than ever important in how we organize and present to an audience.
00:15:41
Speaker
Yeah, but I can definitely relate to the connection thing for me. i mean, you're spoke speaking of the pandemic there. I got in late. I got in post post COVID to my first live events and even we'll maybe talk about how that's impacted things at one point. But.
00:15:57
Speaker
that the first one that I went to and it was immediately was like, oh, I get it now. Like, I know why people go to these that like before attending, i was like, ah, there you know, that's not really for me. I'm a lot of people seem to think I'm an extrovert, I guess, watching made my videos. I'm all happy. I'm talking about CSS. I get excited about it, but like, I'm the biggest introvert that you'll ever meet.
00:16:17
Speaker
I'm super happy just being in this office all day long and not having to worry about you're dealing with anybody um you know my wife's always like why don't you go do stuff to make some friends i'm like i'm good meanwhile your wife just wants you out the house yeah yeah exactly yeah um but as soon as i went to that first conference i was like oh like okay this is why people are into this i get it um like you said the connection that in-person thing really is different um and it made me completely change my mind towards and now I'm like seeking out like oh what's the next one I can actually get to well with some you know I come back detox a little bit from having to deal with people and having my quiet time again um but yeah I totally get that uh that side of things and I'm
00:17:06
Speaker
always Whenever I come back from them, I'm always like like excited to try and tell other people about that side of stuff because so many people haven't yeah um you know had that experience. And one thing that I always hear, and I 100% can relate to this too, is just the costs of conferences can be really expensive.
00:17:24
Speaker
And before i was speaking at them, I couldn't afford to go to them. I worked at a small company for a long time. They didn't have a budget to send people to you know their employees to conferences. um But obviously, it's not just conferences, but you were just talking about meetups as well.
Logistics of Meetups and Conferences
00:17:39
Speaker
um Do you just want to speak a little bit, I guess, the difference to between, say, a meetup and a conference? Is it just scale or is there a bit more to it? So, you know, and and this is where I think we we can jump right into, say, current times.
00:17:54
Speaker
There were certainly meetups and there were conferences and both were thriving pre-pandemic, right? ah You know, in Toronto, you could comfortably, and I do mean comfortably, go to like three meetups a week, um you know, eat all the pizza you know as that you can sort of handle and even probably drink your face off in certain cases. Yeah.
00:18:20
Speaker
and And conferences were around. you know Internationally, conferences were always happening. ah Companies had a bit more budget ah for whatever reason. Who knows?
00:18:31
Speaker
But you know ah conferences certainly were happening. now we hit this big brick wall called the COVID, the pandemic, and people believed that, oh, things were just kind of potentially picked back up ah right after, which they did not.
00:18:49
Speaker
and And I think there are obvious reasons why. But this is where I really start to do some thinking. And, you know, I don't want to sort of like go, you know, in circles to get to one point. But I think it's very important that I mention a few mention a few points that made me really realize what was happening.
00:19:11
Speaker
So as an organizer um and being curious about who's doing what, who's speaking where, what are they talking about? Like these are things that you're constantly processing.
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah. So I would, or I ah joined a bunch of international meetups and local as well.
00:19:36
Speaker
ah So what does that mean? It just means that I will get a notification from say Cologne web performance. And I know who's speaking that day or that night, what the topic is.
00:19:48
Speaker
And also as a up and coming developer, I would get slides that are being shared in, you know, the meetup sort of like page.
00:20:01
Speaker
So I could just look at their slides and be like, okay, this is totally cool. So there was this education a component to my curiosity as well, right? As an organizer. So I did that for like quite a few meetups, you know, like, I don't know, maybe 50, 60 more, but it was, like I said, the curiosity,
00:20:23
Speaker
What also happened is that when a meetup would close, would get the notification. yeah So I knew exactly who was closing and when.
00:20:36
Speaker
And, you know, it'd be, hey, such and such organizer, step down. do you want to take over? yeah no And I kept getting those emails. So I saw the state of the meetup ecosystem basically dissolve right before my eyes.
00:20:53
Speaker
Like I still have all the emails because I delete absolutely nothing. I could go through all of them. And that really got me thinking. And, you know, people were constantly talking about how conferences need to come back and meetups need to come back.
00:21:09
Speaker
And a few years ago, I jumped on ah ah a, I think right at the start of the pandemic, I jumped on a podcast and I kept bringing up the meetup situation because there was nothing more accessible than a meetup.
00:21:25
Speaker
And, you know, conferences and conference organizers were going to sit down and meet, figure out what they needed to do to make it work, shake hands, and set up a date.
00:21:37
Speaker
The meetups, however, had no need to come back. They were always, you know, spaces that are being volunteered. Mm-hmm. ah offices that we're happy to host you ah but people start to work remotely offices you know office leases just ended so you suddenly had a bunch of spaces that were one that were once available no longer right the ones that were still around had new policies in terms of like who would come into the office.
00:22:12
Speaker
So strangers, no dice. At one point, this is almost comical, but at one point they were talking about like organizers and meetups and contact tracing. Like what organizer is going to want to do contact tracing? yeah You know what I mean?
00:22:27
Speaker
Like give me a break, you know? But this was what was happening. So you have all these winds blowing against the idea of meetups coming back.
00:22:39
Speaker
And guess what? They didn't. You know, organizers were like quietly sunsetting. They're like, there's no one looking. I'm going to shut this meetup down. Right. yeah You know, and you had that happening at scale.
00:22:54
Speaker
So now... all these meetups that were once fantastic meetups, poof, gone. Like Gonzo. um I mean, I think of meetups like ah Brooklyn JS, Manhattan JS in New York.
00:23:08
Speaker
Incredible. ah ah The Perf meetup in London, probably the best on the planet. They were streaming before they even needed to, but they understood you know being able to reach people.
00:23:19
Speaker
That vanished. you know ah And so many others that that just were not... around ah or able to to to uh uh last through the the the pandemic so you had a new sort of scenario a new environment very little meetup activity and you have a few conferences that were around but some also folded you know there are quite a few that folded a mixture of you know missteps and ah you know venues that weren't available anymore or were costing so much more money.
00:24:01
Speaker
no So you know I sat back one day and I was thinking like, what happened what is the next event? And, uh, that's where, uh, man, I wish I could share it.
00:24:16
Speaker
Um, I posted this, this graphic. It was also almost a meme, but it was, it was meant to sort of like deliver this message and have people sort of think, you know, I had um,
00:24:30
Speaker
I mean, i don't want to make it sound like ah this is going to be a science channel, but a spermatozoa and an egg. And one was the meetup and one was the conference.
00:24:44
Speaker
And i was i was trying to get people to to think about what would it be like if the conference and the meetup had a... Right. right and you know i brought that up because we're in a new space like you'd mentioned before you came from a small company that did not have a conference budget education budget this is the standard now Like the majority of companies, even the larger ones, do not offer big education budgets anymore.
00:25:15
Speaker
And if you're lucky, if you do have one, it'll cover maybe one of the three components that you need, which is accommodation, flight, and the conference ticket.
00:25:26
Speaker
Right. Choose one and you it's up to you to cover the other two parts. At least, you know, one part will have to be covered.
00:25:38
Speaker
And the majority of people will not come out of pocket for it. All right? So I sat there thinking, like, I believe this so there's a product that merges the two.
00:25:51
Speaker
ah Something that's a bit more polished than the classic meetup that we've attended in the past, which was someone's office, move some tables, get some pizza, with some pop, and random ah set of talks.
00:26:08
Speaker
But it's also smaller than your classic, you know, Oscar-like conferences where there's some red carpet,
Creating Accessible and Impactful Events
00:26:19
Speaker
like some lights flashing and whatnot, big, massive theater, amazing stage, but it's also like $900. Yeah.
00:26:28
Speaker
U.S., you know, or euros maybe. Yep. So I just felt that in this new climate where even, you know, traveling is more expensive, I think there's a necessity to create a new in-person product, an in-person experience product that will not require you to be away potentially for two, three days um that you might be able to do same day, show up the morning, be there,
00:27:03
Speaker
go home at night, right? But you'll also have a extremely well curated event where the people that are there are just like, they're there to deliver messaging, the modern web,
00:27:21
Speaker
this is what's going on. Awesome. Right. And, um, I think there's a product there. I really do. Um, and i come back to the idea of music because I think I mentioned that we're going to talk about music, uh, in this, let let, let me start by asking this. And I think I've asked this before, one of your favorite bands.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah. Sort of mostly nineties metal stuff, Metallica, Iron Maiden, uh, Okay. but let's Let's go with Maiden. All right? And ah Maiden's popular, but not everyone's been able to see Maiden live.
00:28:03
Speaker
Right? And ah for the most part, Maiden only shows up at things like Coachella. Yep. Right? But what if you tried to get Maiden for like CBGBs?
00:28:19
Speaker
right It's possible. And I just believe it's a matter of like you know making the calls, figuring out how it's going to work, and moving from there.
00:28:33
Speaker
And what you get as well is you'll have maiden headlining, but you might have, I don't know, ah like Dokken as an opener,
00:28:48
Speaker
And you might also have, ah I don't know, what's and another metal band? Like a young Motley Crue. yeah Yeah. Brand new band. of Like who's Motley Crue? I don't know.
00:29:01
Speaker
But they're there. yeah But the point is, it's well curated. So in a text speak,
00:29:10
Speaker
what happens if I have a smaller event, but I have Mr. Powell, CSS God, headliner, right?
00:29:22
Speaker
And just because I know she's around the corner, what's her name from Astro? um I forget her name. There's a young young dev who works for Astro who's in the East Coast.
00:29:37
Speaker
Anyhow, so... You know, they're very much about like HTML, you know, what do they call themselves? HTML? ah Like what's the name in in ah in in the West Coast? Captain HTML or something like that. Anyways, but they're they're about that, right?
00:29:56
Speaker
And then I might get someone else who's like very much into standards for the same event. Everything's connected, all right? So that's where I say the curation really matters.
00:30:09
Speaker
And, you know, if you're not into Kevin's work, you're probably not going to want to come. But if you're remotely curious, this is like a must attend because you're not everywhere.
00:30:22
Speaker
You don't do the circuit. And especially these days, the opportunity to see you gets more challenging. yeah And then ah bring up all that because I think it's got to be priced in a way that's not, you know, ah that that's basically accessible.
00:30:42
Speaker
you But that means also you don't have the lights, camera actions. You know, you don't have any kind of glowing lightning bolts, you know, everywhere. It's just like, you know, meat and potatoes, a decent venue, like a small theater.
00:30:59
Speaker
Right. um And again, the ability to sort of like attend it during the day and you're good. Right. Yeah. I'm curious on that front on like, what would like beyond say the lineup, what you think makes a good event, whether it's a smaller meetup or a bigger conference, or we're talking about now, like the in between, cause I guess like that's sort of the thing is almost like a grownup meetup, right? You're taking all the good stuff, highlighting that as much as possible without the over the top that makes you need a huge budget.
00:31:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. So um I think there are a few things that ah organizers need to figure out. So I'll give you a quick example. You know, I think ah some people may may not know, but one of the challenges of organizing anything, especially in a sort of like posher space, large scale, food.
00:31:58
Speaker
is food Yeah. Right. ah Without naming any names, like was just, you know, inquiring with certain venues left and right. And, you know, I was quoted, you know, $85 for day.
00:32:11
Speaker
ah for food for a day Add taxes, you know, I'm basically looking at a hundred bucks. It's hundred dollars per person. right. So you're looking at a 200 person, you know, event that's basically 20 grand.
00:32:26
Speaker
Yep. right. So can you get away with, you know, finding a venue in a location that is friendly to an audience, stepping out, getting something and coming back?
00:32:41
Speaker
right Right. And the, and the key is to have something that's not so long that, you know, they got to leave and get like a full meal and come back. It's just like, Hey, get yourselves, whatever, whatever, you know, you have like an hour and 15 minutes and come back and work it out, come back and network, you know?
00:33:00
Speaker
Um, so these are things that we have to decide, you know, so obviously a lot of times food will, you know, matter in terms of how people grade the event. But for me, one of the biggest deals is having a really good venue, a really nice venue, uh, something comfortable.
00:33:20
Speaker
Right. Uh, and I'll bring it back to meetups. You know, some of the meetups that are always well attended with the meetups at like the spaces that you knew were going to be slick, like Google, like right Microsoft, you know, like orgs that have dedicated AV space and you walk in, you're like, oh this is totally cool.
00:33:40
Speaker
You know, um, the AV set up big 16 by nine screen. You just want to be there. Mm-hmm. And I think that matters as well for ah conferences. You know, there are some really interesting spaces. You know, I've been to stuff like in, in like, churches.
00:33:57
Speaker
You know, ah I've been to, like, some of my favorites were, like, actual old theaters. You know, years ago, i spoke at a yeah um design conference.
00:34:11
Speaker
ah Anyways, i'll come it'll come back to me. But it was like this old theater. It was amazing, massive stage. And I enjoyed it. And I think people also like that.
00:34:22
Speaker
you know So these are things that I think matter. um
00:34:27
Speaker
Accessibility in terms of like how you get there. ah You know, it's is it like totally tucked away? You know, is it something a bit more central? You could get there by subway. You can get there by you know, like,
00:34:41
Speaker
People don't have to travel like you know forever to get there when they're in the city. right I think these things kind of um resonate with me anyways, and hopefully they resonate with we the attendees as well.
00:34:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's funny. You mentioned the theater, the the smashing comp that I went to was on it was off Broadway theater, but it was set up for a burlesque show they were doing or something. So was that they're like, we had to cover up a few things, but we weren't like they weren't allowed to touch the set in any way. But we did have to hide some of the things that were on stage, but it made for a really like cool setting for sure. Yeah.
00:35:13
Speaker
Exactly. You know, like a venue that tells a story, I think is pretty awesome. I, again, i and like to default to small theaters just because, you know, everything's set up, the AV, the seating.
00:35:25
Speaker
It's a little dark, i get it, but you can't have it all. All right. Uh, but yeah, I mean, that's what I think. That's some of the things that I think really matter, uh, when it comes to a conference, uh, or an event. And again, you know, I'll come back to the curation as well, you know, uh, but we could talk about that like separately.
00:35:44
Speaker
Another thing I'd be curious about was do they, do they have to have a morning run? Uh, You know, i think about that so much because there are days where I'm just like, oh, man, you know, it is a bit of work to have a morning run, dude. So you have to find a venue, you have to organize, then you have to make sure that people are back in time to get back to their place or a hotel and have a shower and things like that.
00:36:07
Speaker
But, you know, that reinforces the community part that i talked about earlier. You'd be surprised. Like the one that I organized for React Miami.
00:36:18
Speaker
ah Super fun. You know, i speaking of React Miami, so this brand, CLA, I have some friends there. So they sent a bunch of hats that I gave away. And, you know, there are about like...
00:36:30
Speaker
Their whole sort of modus operandi is like, hey, just get out, just be a runner. And so we had a good time. Some beautiful photos first thing in the morning, you know, sun rising. don't want to get emotional here.
00:36:43
Speaker
But but no it's ah it's it's fun to do. Whenever, I mean, i running for me is not... It's not my cup of tea. I'll i'll put it that way. I'm always just like, I'm so impressed that people are going for the pre-conference run. Every time I see it on the the schedule, I'm just like, damn, they're committed. That's awesome. i know I know smashing likes to do them. yeah But I think they also realize like...
00:37:08
Speaker
It is another another opportunity for, you know, evidently a smaller group of people, but just to like connect. it's like, oh, you're a runner too? Okay, cool. You know, that same conference I was telling you about design systems. That's it. Clarity.
00:37:22
Speaker
That's the conference I was at. And i remember, because I always intro that, ah my intros always include the fact that I'm a runner. And I remember someone coming up to me later. It's like, Hey, if you're ever back in San Francisco, gave me her card. She's like, I'm totally a runner too. I loved your talk and let's go out for a run. And I'm like, yeah, totally.
00:37:43
Speaker
You know, that's awesome. Yeah, that's cool. ah We've been speaking a bit about like the the good things. I am curious because you've been to a lot of conferences. Is there ever I've heard some horror stories from people. i don't need any details on like a specific calling anyone out. But i'm just curious if there's anything where either just something went wrong that really you resonated with you or something where you're like that was on purpose, but I'm never going to do that because that was just a bad idea.
00:38:09
Speaker
I understand what conference organizers are going through. You know, there's always potentially like a little fire and whether or not it's the fire that they want to deal with right now or later right is on them. I think as...
00:38:25
Speaker
a speaker and as a conference organizer too. So I tend to, again, understand what they're going through. i think, you know, there are some basics that I think a organizer needs to keep in mind.
00:38:41
Speaker
There's a lot that you can organize a lot on your own, but ah you do need some help. And sometimes, ah you know, managing you a group of volunteers can be a little challenging because the messaging has got to be right at every point.
00:38:57
Speaker
ah people are kind of like pinging you all the time about things and you're like, okay, I'll be there in a second. You know, it's been like 15 minutes and you're still not there. Right. I remember I was at this conference and one of the, the, the, the guest speakers was like complaining about their, their accommodations. And I'm like, I totally get it.
00:39:18
Speaker
Uh, sometimes you get up, you end up in, uh, these interesting hotels, you know, it could be a little older. um but again, you know, you have to weigh the pros and cons, you know, sometimes the proximity is what matters.
00:39:34
Speaker
Right. And, you know, you might end up bam, you know, this is the one that's available. This is the one within your budgets. One of the things that ah I'm very, like, I love taking the subway to an event. Or here's here's one that I think about a lot, too, um is when I land in a particular city, can I get from the from the airport to the hotel, hopefully with public transit?
00:40:02
Speaker
Right. Right. Yeah. And that's the first thing I look for when I'm announced or when I've been sort of reached out to like, hey, do you want to speak here? I'm like, yeah, totally. And I'm like, where's the airport?
00:40:13
Speaker
Where's the hotel? Can I make this happen with a subway? When it's a yes, I think it's all thumbs up. When it's a no, it gets a little challenging, but you figure it out.
00:40:24
Speaker
right But I think organizers need to kind of think like that as well. you know It's like what is going to be the best you know experience. Speaking of experience, you know I was in the back channels once with a bunch of speakers, and i was talking about, and again, you can bleep this out if you want to, but I was i was talking about sex, which speaker experience, right? they were Like what is good speaker experience?
00:40:54
Speaker
It matters. yeah It really does. You know, it's, uh, there are little things that seem insignificant, but it does come into play. Right. Yeah. You know, uh, I don't want to Uber from the airport, you know, or two, as long as like I try not to basically.
00:41:11
Speaker
Right. Yeah. You know, but sometimes you have to, right. Yeah. Uh, I'm curious on that. So in, in now with what you're sort of looking at in bringing you know that idea that we were talking about together, i guess for you, what's like the, the, the real end goal of being able to like put something like that and make it work.
00:41:35
Speaker
I mean, they're there there's there are a bunch of ah things. um I personally believe that, and i was having this conversation this weekend, in fact, you know, with this new environment that we're in, little to no education budgets, venues not being available like they used to, and, you know, conferences being amazing, but you...
00:42:05
Speaker
bring up you know the idea that you know budgets are strained, well, that means a lot of people are not able to have these you know in-person experiences as much as before.
00:42:19
Speaker
like if you Imagine this. If you got your first job and in in web, say, in 2019, which is at this point like five, six years ago,
00:42:33
Speaker
You've seen none of that amazing meetup experience that took place because, you know, you got your sort of like feet wet 2019. Okay, cool. 2020, bam, door closes. Right?
00:42:45
Speaker
bam door closes right so Unless you're in in in San Francisco, because that's a completely different planet and nothing slowed down there. And in in fact, they just ramped up. i don't know what happened over there.
00:42:57
Speaker
You know, San Francisco is just a crazy place. But, you know, this is legitimate. So I think there's a need for this to happen. And I think there's an opportunity. Like, I think there's a lane there that for, again, multiplicity of reasons are isn't being sort of like...
00:43:17
Speaker
you know, driven down. Right. Again, organizers kind of retiring, sunsetting quietly, but you know, that's because they put in the work before and now they have a small family.
00:43:29
Speaker
They're fine. Um, you have also no one picking up the mantle and continuing what was being done prior.
00:43:40
Speaker
Again, getting back those emails of me knowing that, meetups closed so all that to say that I think there's an opportunity for something or someone to even create like a business out of it right And again, it's not meant to be a hugely sort of like, that you know, it's not going to be a waterfall or, you know, money falling off, falling out of trees.
00:44:12
Speaker
But I think there's a need for something like this to happen.
Exploring New Event Formats
00:44:17
Speaker
You know, i come back to the music. Yeah. Bands are still touring.
00:44:23
Speaker
Shows are still happening. People are still going to shows. And we've always understood that that needs to happen. You know?
00:44:35
Speaker
Now, Maiden may not tour like they used to. What's another band you mentioned? Metallica. Metallica may not tour like they used to.
00:44:46
Speaker
You know? But there are some bands out there that are still doing it. Right? So it's ah it's about, you know, finding that opportunity for that band to perform.
00:44:57
Speaker
And on the web space, it's finding the opportunity for, you know, the CSS gods to present, you know, because they've been out in the East Coast and now they're looking for opportunities to have a beautiful deck in front of them. Yeah.
00:45:17
Speaker
No, it's, it's, it's, yeah, no, for sure. That's it. Right. So, um, it's, it's about creating those opportunities and getting, letting people know that there are some, you know, special moments that take place at these events.
00:45:36
Speaker
Right now, hopefully you've inspired some people to to look for some stuff in their area to see what's going on. But at the same time, it's very possible that they're just they look and they're like, I can't find anything.
00:45:48
Speaker
um If they are looking for stuff, would it be meetup.com? Is there other places that you'd suggest looking? You know, it's interesting because, again, i had this conversation this weekend. You know, meetup.com used to be amazing.
00:46:01
Speaker
Not what it used to be, certainly. Because, again, meetups closed. And there's certainly, i don't say they're a skeleton of what they used to be, but whatever. but that's still a place to an extent.
00:46:15
Speaker
You might find a bunch of dormant meetups there. Right. So, but ah just joining them just to see what's going to happen. If anything does, you know, people talk about guild.
00:46:27
Speaker
um That's a spot. And then what's that third one that a lot of people seem to be using Luna, Luna, Luma, maybe it's Luma. Let me double check L U M A.
00:46:38
Speaker
And people are using them. Yeah, it's Luma. Delightful events start here. Yeah. Are using them as well. But I think it's also when you do see something come up online, because that's generally where the word gets out.
00:46:53
Speaker
um It's about just like, you know, is it an event that ah resonates with you in terms of topic or whatever it might be? It could be on the periphery. I don't know. But just, you know, follow what they do, join the group, see what else comes up, you know, notifications.
00:47:08
Speaker
These days when they join, when you join, they, uh, it's a, uh, opt-in, but you can put in your phone number and they'll text you, you know, um, shout out to my man, Andre in San Francisco, all this, uh, all this great events. I always get the, the text saying, such and such is happening. I'm like, man, that dude's is on fire.
00:47:31
Speaker
But yeah, that's it. But you know ultimately, you know
00:47:36
Speaker
bands tour, events can tour. yeah And that's something that you know I want to also let people know it's possible. Because again, you know the big events which I absolutely love to attend, you know there's some massive ones that I'd love to go to, like in Amsterdam, they have these massive venues. I just want to be there. Right.
00:47:57
Speaker
But the smaller ones, there's no reason why, you know, over like a 10 day period, Kevin can do like three dates. Right. Yep. You know, sure one in Toronto, one Chicago.
00:48:12
Speaker
one in San Francisco. You know what I mean? So, yep um, I think there's something there that people could sort of say, Hey, Kevin's on tour.
00:48:25
Speaker
Yeah. That's a cool idea. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? that That's, that's, that's my whole thing. It's like, why not? Yeah. And, and it's again, it's the topic at hand.
00:48:37
Speaker
It's about being there in person. It's about being with people who want to be there. So the like-minded idea is there already. Like the maiden fans all show up for a maiden show.
00:48:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that's ah that's a cool idea. I like that. the the Framing it that way makes a lot of sense, yeah. And that's why I brought the music up because people tend to understand the whole music element.
00:49:00
Speaker
It's like, this show is coming to town. i can't i can't you know miss this. Well, Kevin's coming to town. you know I've seen his videos. like I want to experience this person. He's probably got some secret stuff that he's going to show live. He's going to do a workshop the next day.
00:49:17
Speaker
Right? So yeah it's that's how I look at it. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. um I've already had you for a lot of time. And before I let you go, though.
00:49:27
Speaker
Oh, okay. It was a pleasure, man. like oh was before Before I let you go, i like doing a little rapid fire just okay
Common Performance Misconceptions
00:49:34
Speaker
before we head out. Now, I'm going to split this into two sections because I usually do CSS ones. I know you're not a huge CSS person. and So we'll we'll start in an area that you know a little bit more about first, and then I'll see if we can sneak some CSS stuff in.
00:49:45
Speaker
Okay. And before even before that, i'm gonna you asked me, so I'm going to ask you what your favorite music or bands are. Oh, man, I'm a little all over the place, but I'll tell you a band that I absolutely love, Tame Impala.
00:49:59
Speaker
Mm-hmm. a Big fan. ah I mean, i don't want to take people into the deep, deep rap weeds, but this is a band called Griselda that I absolutely love.
00:50:12
Speaker
um Should I so throw a third one in there? um i mean, I'll be honest, like I'm i'm still a huge Metallica fan. So it's like I could talk about those guys all day.
00:50:26
Speaker
Awesome. Um, so yeah, I'm gonna ask a few questions about performance, really fast, quick answers. If you start to ramble, I won't stop you, but we'll do a few quick ones. Uh, as personally, I'm like a new, but when it comes to performance, so we're talking about some, some simple stuff, but I'd say, is there like a really big performance faux pas that you see a lot?
00:50:47
Speaker
Oh, a faux pas. You know, ah i mean, I don't want to say it's a faux pas, but it's a belief that ah the only thing that you need to do is optimize images. Okay.
00:51:04
Speaker
And that's, ah it's not false, but it's it's not actually ah the sort of save all that people believe it is. Right. You know, there are a lot more details that are involved.
00:51:21
Speaker
Is there any low hanging fruit other than images? You know, if you want to have a fairly fast site, the lowest hanging fruit is we have the saying where the quickest request is the one that's never made.
00:51:38
Speaker
So basically, if you have as few requests as possible, there's a very good chance you'll have as issues. issues ah because the issues really come up as you make requests right and the fewer you have the lesser it is that you're likely to have any right yeah i'm to have you on for an episode we're just talking about performance now maybe uh last one on performance yes but we'll sort of transition towards css have you ever seen css causing a really big performance issue
00:52:13
Speaker
I don't say it's big, but, you know, um CSS can be a blocking request because things have to be painted, and that is a waiting period at the end of day.
00:52:28
Speaker
So, you know, people have to realize that, you know, ah ah CSS, I mean, CSS, pardon me, performance, it's ultimately about, like, time and is it potentially being wasted?
00:52:44
Speaker
Right. Right. And the more you can make sure that time is not wasted because some things just have to happen, but you know, do you have, you know, other requests along the line that are going to waste your time, you know?
00:53:02
Speaker
So latency is ultimately what we're trying to battle, uh, without getting too crazy. Uh, but yeah, that, that, that's really it, you know, at the end of day. So, you know, we could talk about how, you know, it's like driving, you know, you could have like a Porsche, you can have ho a Honda Civic, but if they're both caught in traffic, no one's winning.
00:53:23
Speaker
Right. Right. So, uh, these are things that you want to keep in mind. Yeah. ah So speaking of CSS, I don't know how close you've been following it, but so this doesn't have to be like a cutting edge thing. It could just be the latest new thing you've used, but is there a favorite new CSS feature that you have?
00:53:42
Speaker
i You know what? There are a bunch out there and i can't name them off the top of my head, but you know I'll be very honest. like I think CSS is amazing. And ah even a few years ago when I thought I was going to maybe dive into it a little bit more, it's because like so much was happening.
00:54:01
Speaker
And now I think we're at a point where like maybe too much is happening. Like there's a lot happening in CSS that's amazing. And in fact, you know, some of my yeah some of the sites I plan on putting up around some of these products that I'm creating, I'm actually trying to go like Node.js.
00:54:18
Speaker
Because I think it's very possible right now. yeah And I mean, I shouldn't think it is possible. It is possible. ah And I think that's a testament to what's been happening with CSS right now.
00:54:33
Speaker
Yeah. I made a talk for, i think it was two years ago, looking at all the things you don't need JavaScript for anymore. And now I'm like, I could just throw that whole thing out and make a completely new one because there's just so many new stuff that's come out in the meantime. It's crazy.
00:54:47
Speaker
That's it. And, you know, to get back to what we've been talking about, that's why, you know, Kevin headlining is a big deal. This content was not imaginable five years ago.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah. you know And now here's what you could do with CSS with as little, if no if not no JavaScript right now. I think it's a fantastic conversation.
00:55:13
Speaker
Yeah, it turned into a good time to have a channel devoted to sales. Oh, for sure. you You're doing God's work right now. I got lucky in my timing, but at least I'm not short on content ideas, that's for sure. ah You were just saying, like, trying to keep up with it all. Like, I'm like, I can't keep up with it all, and this is all I do all day long. So I don't know how anyone who works at, at like, a regular job can figure it out. because yeah Well, you know, what they end up doing is convincing the boss to bring you in for a workshop. Yeah.
00:55:42
Speaker
There you go. There we go. Did you hear that? People listening. Oh, that was um awesome. Thank you so much. i really enjoyed that conversation.
00:55:52
Speaker
um i also just realized I said Henry and not Ari. I apologize. Oh, it's totally fine. You must be used to it by now. I answered to both. but I do want to thank you for having me. And it's a conversation that I'm always happy having.
Conclusion and Social Media Engagement
00:56:05
Speaker
ah Because I think it affects everyone who's working or trying to be in in the web space and, you know, trying to have ah better in-person experiences ultimately, because I think it matters in how you take on particular topics. And again, you know, congratulations on all the work you've done. I think it's amazing.
00:56:25
Speaker
ah So I was delighted to be able to sort of partake in some of your glow. Oh, thank you so much. That's nice of you. If anybody's listening and they're like, i need to, you know, follow everything a he's up to so I can start going to these tours that he's going to be launching and everything else.
00:56:42
Speaker
ah What's the best place to keep track of everything? Right now, I'd say socials. So if you if you look up Henri Helvetica, ah just like it's pronounced, on either...
00:56:54
Speaker
Twitter, I'm sorry. Blue Sky, LinkedIn, ah even what's the other one? Instagram, you can find me there. ah Definitely active on Blue Sky and LinkedIn, surprisingly lately. so but yeah Everybody keeps saying, every time someone brings up LinkedIn now, they're like, it's surprisingly good. it's like the common consensus now.
00:57:15
Speaker
You know, I'll say it is surprisingly more interesting than I thought it would be. right The good part, you know i don't know like i but i think it had a pretty low bar because everyone hated it so maybe if it's just not as terrible as they were expecting they're like oh it's not so bad after all ah exactly you know i thought i was going to be forced to wear like you know cotton dockers you know but i could actually walk in there with jeans uh but it is interesting because there's some especially in the performance space there are a lot of people in there that um i didn't realize were sort of like paying attention to performance so um it was important for me to sort of like be there yeah that's that's cool i should think about on hibernating my account i just i haven't come to it yet but maybe one of these days believe me i was the same way
00:58:05
Speaker
Anyway, thanks so much once again. i want to thank all the listeners for for listening. And until next time, don't forget to make your corner of the internet internet just a little bit more awesome. Amazing. Thanks, that everyone, for listening. Kevin, thanks for having me.