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Season Five: Return to the Isle of Orca, and Kitty Litter?
335 Plays6 months ago
In today’s episode, we discuss a court appearance for a notorious killer that happened a few hours earlier on June 6, 2024.
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Transcript
Introduction and Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
This podcast may contain disturbing content for some listeners. It's intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Revisiting the Long Island Serial Killer Case
00:00:08
Speaker
um and
00:00:13
Speaker
are a
00:00:21
Speaker
um this is true crime
00:00:40
Speaker
Okay, so today we're supposed to be starting a new serial killer, but instead we're actually going back to an old serial killer.
Rex Huerman's Court Developments and Indictments
00:00:47
Speaker
One, so that I can test some changes in our interfaces that we use to record. And two, because this case just keeps going. And I don't like to do this. I don't like to do this with Delphi. I don't like to do it with The Idaho 4 case, I'm not covering Karen Reed. And I know people are really into those cases. And I know that people are really into this case and a lot of people will be covering this. ah We covered it before, if you look it up, it's Lost Girls. And there's an Ogre episode from a long time ago. ah This is the continuing saga of the what was known as the Lisk of the Long Island. Serial killers became the Gilgo Beach.
00:01:31
Speaker
murders, ah but it's ah Rex Huerman, who is an alleged serial killer out of Suffolk County, Long Island, New York. He was back in court this week. um He gets charged with a couple of new things. We got a document about 40 pages long. I wanted to talk about this document because I think the press has missed some of this stuff and they'll probably get it over the weekend. Multiple conversations about the victims in the document, but there's um two brand new murders and a whole lot of information that we had missed out on. Did you get a chance to read this? I did. Yep. I guess we should start by just saying July 14th, so about a year ago,
00:02:12
Speaker
Rex Huerman, he gets indicted by a grand jury with six counts in ah Suffolk County, New York. The first count was murder in the first degree and the death of Melissa Bertelebi, and that was a owner about July 10th, 2009. He got murdered in the first degree for Megan Waterman and they thought that was around June 6th, 2010. He got murdered in the first degree for Amber Costello ah around September 2nd, 2010. He also got a second degree murder charge for Melissa. He got a second degree murder charge for Megan and he got a second degree murder charge for Amber as well.
00:02:57
Speaker
Then in January of 2024, he got hit with another superseding indictment, uh, which was for the death of Marine Brainard Barnes. And it's just a second degree. That's a second degree murder. So now we're in, you know, we're June 6th, 2024. We're recording this like kind of as it's unfolding. He has now been charged with two additional counts of second degree murder. One of those deaths is the death of Sandra Castillo on or about November 19th or 20th of 1993. The other is the death of Jessica Taylor. Her death occurred
00:03:38
Speaker
it's believed to have occurred on or about or between July 21st to July 26th of 2003. So this is a number of things for the Long Island Serial Killer case. The first thing is ah we were going back in time to about 2007 with old Rex and now We've gone back not only to 2003 with the Jessica Taylor ah murders, we've gone all the way back to 1993, which is, it's a big deal. People are going to be talking about this. Overall, kind of what did you think about him getting charged with a couple more murders? Well, I believe that you called the Sandra Castillo one. I was actually, because they announced earlier this week that he would be back in court to be arraigned on two new murder charges, right? That's how we heard it somehow. Yeah, I originally heard one more murder charge from a pretty good source and they said there might be more um and they would message me and that's how I got to Sandra Castillo.
00:04:42
Speaker
I don't know how I got to two, but because I had thought that they were going to name Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack. And you said, Sandra Castilla. And I was like, there's no way they're going to go back that far. And then
Identification and Connection of Victims
00:04:59
Speaker
they did. And that Valerie Mack was not included. And then I got confused because Valerie Mack has another name. There's a there's a um Valerie Mac disappeared in 2000 and her remains were found. I associate her with Jessica Taylor though and that's why I thought it was going to be her. So she was one of the Jane Doe's for a while. I can help you. She was Mannerville Jane Doe and Jane Doe number six. She was also known as Melissa Taylor. That's why I associate her with Jessica Taylor.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yeah, she was known as ah Melissa Taylor, Mannerville Jane Doe, and Jane Doe, number six. Now, the deal with her is at the time that she would have died, She had been involved in foster care from very young. She had multiple arrests, sex work, and she was very small. She was five feet tall. They thought she weighed around 100 pounds. They discovered her partial remains in November of 2000. She didn't get identified until 2020. She had been wrapped in garbage bags and dumped in the woods near the intersection of Halsey Manor Road and Mill Road. She was right off a set of power lines and close to the power line access road.
00:06:17
Speaker
So then a head, a foot, and hands, they were found on April 4, 2011. They were at first determined to have belonged to an unidentified victim, and they called those Jane Doe number six. But it was later determined that they belonged to the same woman whose torso had been found back in 2000. so The belief at the time was that like some of the dismemberment that had happened there might have been cutting off identifying marks or tattoos. ah May 8th of 2020 police come back around to her and they announced that the remains had been identified as Valerie Mack. And the way her story goes is there's sort of a conversation with police in 2000. And that happens from the area known as Port Republic in New Jersey.
00:07:08
Speaker
And it really only happens because Valerie Mac, Melissa Taylor, she had a young son at the time of her death. She never gets up officially reported missing. It's one of those situations where the family and friends that were around really didn't know what to do. Despite her using the alias Melissa Taylor, it has been confirmed that there isn't a link between Valerie Mac, Melissa Taylor, and Jessica Taylor. So the dismembered remains of Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor, they were both disposed of in a similar manner and in the same part of the area i known as Manorville. So keep that in mind here. I believe if you look on a map, it's slightly northeast of where the Gilgrove Beach Four remains were found.
DNA and Forensics in the Investigation
00:08:02
Speaker
Right. And you and I have wondered if all of this was going to end up being linked along the way. I have been a staunch believer that it would not be, but now I've sort of changed my mind and I feel like we may have just confused everybody. So just to be clear, the new charges are for Jessica Taylor and Sandra Castillo. Right. and Okay. And I had, when we first heard the announcement, you heard it was going to be one new murder and you said you thought it was going to be Sandra Castilla. And i I thought I heard it was going to be two new murder charges. And I was like, well, that's going to be Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack. And so Valerie Mack has not been charged.
00:08:45
Speaker
Yeah. So Valerie Mac does not appear on Rex Sherman's indictment list. She does, however, appear in the amendment to the bail request. Yeah. So we talked about when he got arrested, we talked about how they were handling the investigation along the way. We have, we, we sort of come back to this case a few times over the years and it is one that I, i personally stay on top of because I have a feeling it's it's going to be a very deep case. Today's announcement of these indictments and some of these documents we got our hands on, which were available to the press ah this morning.
00:09:26
Speaker
They seem to sort of bear that out, timeline-wise. We have now broadened this from a couple of murders that happened between 2007 and 2010, and we've taken it all the way back to 2003, and then a decade back to 1993. This document is interesting for a number of reasons, and I'm going to read from some of this because I think it's important. What's an interesting part to you? well I know you're going to read it, but what what grabbed your attention the most besides just the overarching nature of the case and how you followed it throughout the years? So I suspected that we were dealing with a highly organized serial killer that wouldn't appear to be a highly organized serial killer early on. What bounced out at me is we now have what appears to be evidence of a changing MO,
00:10:19
Speaker
changing disposal methods. We have, if this document is accurate, multiple victims spanning multiple decades, relatively unknown activity by a a a predator of sex workers, which is interesting. But we have what appears to be evidence that this guy was learning from true crime media. hi Yeah. um Yeah, that's interesting that you took that away from that. He's also a note taker, which is a sign of an organized offender.
00:11:04
Speaker
Great, but don't you think he's projecting? There's a lot of projection going on here. um Even to the extent that he was trying to like portray the cases as like this one was from an organized person and this one was from a disorganized person? A little bit. because he was going through the motion of like what had been called out from the experts, right? Like you were saying, but he was like making marked decisions ahead of time, which obviously is organized, right? But he was like, I'm going to organize myself to be disorganized. So it'll look like somebody else did this, right? Of course, you know, at a certain point he got super confident, which,
00:11:48
Speaker
There's no reason why he wouldn't because it took so long for the bodies to be found, right? Yes. And that's one of the reasons I focused in on this particular document. And I know the news media is going to seize on it this weekend because people are going to look at it and understand what's happening here. But I wanted to talk about it with you because so we've added two new names to what is it like this guy is eventually going to be again, the Long Island serial killer, even though he's currently the Gilgo Beach Whatever word they touch. Murder. I do think now that, okay, Sarah, as you'll, I'm sure, point out, there's DNA evidence. DNA and hair evidence, yes. Well, the DNA is from the hair. Right. that it not only so it did the whole you know As technology has evolved, it used to be you have to have a root on a hair, right? and Then they were able to break down hair and trace it mitochondrically.
00:12:48
Speaker
And in that, you see a lot of like comparisons where you'll get like 99.8% of a population can be excluded, but this person can't be, right right all the way up to like we broke this down and we have matched every single marker. And so it isn't like as close as you can get to an exact match, right? There'd have to be like 15 million Earths full of people to have another person have the same match is essentially what they're saying. And so i and so having read what I read,
00:13:28
Speaker
Now my perspective has been broadened because I thought for certain this was going to end up being like a weird multi-killer dumping ground, but now I'm not so sure. And Sandra Castilla, even though it is 1993, um she was matched to him, not only to him, but also to the female that he was living with at the time. Yep. Yep. And I think that that's super relevant because this isn't just like a guess, right? This is no question. This matches. And so since he's been connected that way,
00:14:11
Speaker
it Well, it's I mean, I'm kind of glad it's all going to be the same guys dumping bodies probably because you know, even though I thought it was more likely that It was it couldn't possibly be somebody operating in that like length of time It's also like better that it's just one person but I also am kind of concerned at what else we're going to find. But we did learn quite a bit in the document, though, that I feel like is a guiding part of this whole case. Yeah, I wouldn't, you know, if you've stayed with us this far, I assume you're interested. um I wouldn't drag you into this if there weren't some seriously interesting shit in here. The first three pages are pretty standard, like the first two are literally just the people stating why we're here today for ah for court.
00:15:03
Speaker
And that's basically the indictments that I just went over early on ah for the first degree and second degree murder of all of these victims. Third page gets into a little bit of where we're going. It says the people filed a written bail application at Huerman's initial arraignment. This was July 14th, 2023, as well as the defendant's arraignment on the superseding indictment when they added Marine to this pile. And that occurred on January 16th, 2024. ah They've added all that to the end of this where people can read it. You can find this easily online. I saw New York Post, New York Times, Fox News, all of them are carrying this. I don't know that this document is out there yet. It will be by the time the weekend comes around. I'll try and add it if I remember. So then it says on July 14th, 2023, Richard Ambrose ordered that ah defendant Rex Sherman be remanded without bail. So Richard Ambrose is the judge at that time.
00:16:00
Speaker
So the matter is a adjourned or put off until August 1st, 2023. Uh, the honorable Timothy P Mazzi, he comes on board and in the assuming appearances, ensuing appearances that have followed. So starting August 1st, 2023 forward, the court has continued to remand the defendant without bail. Uh, and the people are saying that should continue because it's getting worse. And what they say is set forth below is the people's bail application in support of the new superseding indictment, which will expand on additional evidentiary developments in this investigation. Now charging, defendant Huerman were the murders of two additional victims, Jessica Taylor and Sandra Castillo.
00:16:46
Speaker
Based on defendant Huerman's indictment on additional murder charges as it pertains to now a fifth and sixth victim, the serious and heinous nature of these serial murders, the planning and forethought that went into these crimes, the strength of the people's case, the length of incarceration the defendant faces upon conviction, the extended period of time that this defendant was able to avoid apprehension and the remaining facts set forth herein and contained within these exhibits, the people remained steadfast that the only means to ensure defendant Rexay Huerman's return to court is to remand him without bail.
Uncovering Evidence and Legal Proceedings
00:17:22
Speaker
And for once, I completely agree with the prosecutor there. I agree. And I would add that
00:17:29
Speaker
I'm pretty sure the only way certain members of our population can be safe is for him to be behind bars. Yes. Yes. 100%. This truly is a monster unfolding and i is quite fascinating and horrifying. So I feel like that is part of why we have this We don't wanna do like full coverage all the time on it, but we have to keep up with it because it's this thing that's unfolding in our lifetime that has the span of time, right? yeah yeah As far as like, i you know, we remember when they were found, the circumstances under which they were found, all the controversy with regard to um Shannon Gilbert.
00:18:15
Speaker
And we're still not in here, by the way, but is the Shannon Gilbert, whatever happened to her, which we don't know yet. She is the reason that we have a lot of this unfolding the way that it's unfolding. Correct, because um a a canine handler who was training his dog to find cadavers, or to you know a so human-remained search dog, he, in his downtime, went to the area where um Shannon Gilbert was last known to be once they had connected her, um because it took from Lake
00:18:55
Speaker
when she disappeared until like August for them to figure out the 911 call was her, was this missing person, right? And then you finally um in December, he was looking for her and they thought they found her, but then instead they found all these other girls, right? I think that it's pretty clear, especially based on some of the information we get in this particular filing, um Shannon Gilbert sort of being found in Claire's proximity to where she was like literally seen running away by multiple ah sort of uninvolved neighbors, it lends itself that she's not a victim of Rex Huerman. Yeah, whatever happened to her here, she is the reason we have Rex Huerman being caught when he's caught, I believe. She's the reason that the bodies were ever found.
00:19:47
Speaker
Right. It gets a little murky because some of this happens like in a way that like now we're expanding beyond like the original discoveries, and particularly with Sandra Castillo. But I want to go over like what the people are laying out here for facts related to this case and kind of how damning it is. And then I want to talk about some of the implications of them. i'm going I'm just going to start out recapping the discovery of the human remains of Jessica Taylor. This starts out on page three of the document and the people are really just telling the judge enough here that they keep Rex in jail. um But it says the 2003 and 2011 discovery of human remains of Jessica Taylor on or about July 26th, an individual who i didn whose identity is known to law enforcement as witness one.
00:20:35
Speaker
was walking his or her dog just west of Halsey Manor Road, Manorville, Suffolk County, New York. At that time, the witness observed what appeared to be human remains, which prompted him or her to call 911. Upon arrival, members of the Suffolk County Police Department observed the remains of a female that was later identified as Jessica Taylor. Miss Taylor was found lying on her back with her legs bent underneath her. Notably, the victim was decapitated and both of Miss Taylor's arms had been severed from her body below her elbows. So keep in mind, this discovery is long before Shannon Gilbert.
00:21:16
Speaker
If that happened in 2010, we're talking about 2003. So yeah, this is, like you said, this is 2003. So it's seven years before Shannon Gilbert and some change. Notably, the victim was decapitated. Both of Mrs. Taylor's arms had been severed from her body below her elbows. Moreover, a tattoo on the victim's torso had been severely obliterated by a sharp object. Investigators believed the mutilation of the victim's tattoo, the decapitation of her head, and the dismemberment of Ms. Taylor's arms were acts perpetrated by Rex A. Huerman to inhibit the identification of the victim by a facial recognition, fingerprints, or tattoo identification. During the initial investigation in Mannerville in 2003,
00:22:01
Speaker
The victim's head, arms, and hands were not found at the scene, and their location remained unknown to law enforcement for approximately eight years. Okay, so this is the Manorville remains, 2003. On March 29th of 2011, so now we're after Shannon Gilbert's 911 call, Ms. Taylor's skull, hands, and forearm were discovered along Ocean Parkway, just east of Gilgo Beach in Suffolk County, New York. Notably, ah the victim's remains were located on the same side of the road from where Marine Brainerd Barnes, Melissa Bartelemi, Megan Waterman, and Amber Costello, here and after, called the Gilgo 4, in quotes, had been found just several months prior in December 2010.
00:22:57
Speaker
Each of the Gilgo IV victims, as well as the skull hands and forearm of Miss Taylor, were recovered on the same side of the road and at a depth of within 50 feet from the edge of the parkway. Furthermore, the victim's remains were located less than a mile from where the Gilgo IV were discovered. They drop us a map in here, which it's it's just a standard Google map showing us thumbtacks of where Each of the remains we just talked about the Gilgo 4 and Jessica Taylor are found. Then they give us some information relevant to the disappearance of Jessica Taylor. Jessica Taylor was last seen on or about July 19, 2003 in New York City. The investigation to date has established that in July 2003, Jessica Taylor was working as a sex worker in the area of Midtown Manhattan.
00:23:51
Speaker
On July 21, 2003, at approximately 8.41 p.m., Ms. Taylor utilized her cellular phone, here and after called the Taylor phone, to speak to her mother. Based on witness interviews and analysis of telephone records, the Gilgo Homicide Task Force has learned that the two spoke for approximately seven minutes. and During that call, Jessica had arranged to visit her mother on July 25, 2003 in Poughkeepsie, New York for her mother's birthday. Less than two hours later, at approximately 10.22 PM, the Taylor phone placed an outgoing call which lasted approximately two minutes. Thereafter, the Taylor phone records reveal no further outgoing or accepted incoming calls.
00:24:40
Speaker
On or about July 25, 2003, when her daughter failed to arrive at her Pukipsi residence or answer any phone calls, Jessica's mother notified law enforcement. At the time of Jessica's disappearance, Rex Huerman worked in the same vicinity as where she was known to, quote, streetwalk or work as a sex worker. Record seized during the execution of prior search warrants revealed that Heurmann was in fact present in midtown Manhattan on July 21st, 2003, the same date that Jessica disappeared. On July 26th, 2003, and in the days thereafter, members of the Suffolk County Police Department canvassed the area around Halsey Manor Road in Manorville in the vicinity of where the remains had been found.
Digital Forensics and Behavioral Analysis
00:25:31
Speaker
As a result, investigators spoke to a witness. This is July 25th, 2003.
00:25:38
Speaker
around 10.30 PM, they had observed a dark colored Chevy pickup truck backed into the same wooded area where Jessica Taylor's body was later found. Based upon their ah investigation, law enforcement determined that these observations would have occurred approximately 13 hours before witness one's 911 call, which is the discovery of her body. And notably, the investigation to date has established that defendant Huerman purchased a 2002 dark colored Chevrolet Avalanche pickup truck on or about March 22nd, 2002 from Ramp Chevrolet in Port Jefferson Station, New York. Accordingly, on July 25th, 2003 at 10.30 p.m.,
00:26:32
Speaker
It stands that defendant Huerman would have been in possession of a vehicle matching the description of the one observed in the vicinity of where Jessica Taylor's remains had been found on Halsey Manor Road. A forensic analysis of Rex Huerman's digital devices also revealed the following. On or about July 28, 2003, Rex Huermann accessed a Newsday article entitled, Cop Seek Help in ID'ing Mannerville Body Regarding the Discovery of Jessica Taylor's Remains. That online activity was subsequently deleted, and on or about July 29, 2003, Rex Huermann conducted an internet search
00:27:17
Speaker
for a new Chevrolet Avalanche, despite his 2002 Avalanche being just over one year old. The analysis further shows that Huerman also attempted to delete this search for a new vehicle. Notably, this activity occurred just days after Jessica Taylor was discovered and just days after witnesses observed a vehicle matching the physical description of Huerman's leaving the scene. So what we get here is we have an insert These are the some of these are files from a very old internet cache. But they look like they're run.
00:27:59
Speaker
um I guess this comes out of the search warrant. from They have to come out of the search warrant from July 2023. That's the most recent one. Right. it Well, either way... yeah This is coming off of his devices. This is his computer. Yeah, well, and there's a number somewhere of how many electronic devices they see, and it's over 100. And so he had kept all of this stuff.
00:28:31
Speaker
yeah he He thinks he's deleted it is what it looks like because it says on here that these are archived files they're pulling from deleted. yeah I've had more than one occasion recently and tell my husband how much trouble I'm going to be on if my Internet history ever becomes a thing. Yeah. But it's really nothing except me researching things, but I find it really interesting because okay he doesn't end up replacing the Chevy Avalanche. No. and I presume it's because it didn't come up. No. Like while he had been seen and it was reported to police, now a Chevy Avalanche, correct me if I'm wrong, it is not a run of the mill vehicle. No, and it's also distinctive in profile and any kind of view of it, you would know it because it has a very distinctive look to it.
00:29:19
Speaker
Yeah, like it it doesn't it looks like a pickup truck, but it's not like a ah normal pickup truck, is how I would say. And that's why we've got it remembered here, right? Correct. Yeah, he basically, he was looking at different colors. It goes on the state that he was looking at a rival blue and a summit white, which are different lighter colors compared to his 2002 dark green avalanche that he had. This made me wonder, um it says that he accessed a Newsday article that was titled, Copsie, Kelp, NID, Mannerville Body. How long was um Jessica Taylor unidentified? Do you have any idea? She's identified late 2003 by DNA analysis.
00:30:07
Speaker
2003. Okay. Um, and so she wasn't unidentified for very long, but it was just her torso and, uh, upper arms and legs right until 2011. Yes. Right. Okay. And I was just curious because, um, it says that he had accessed the article, right. Um, indicating that he, um, he had looked at something that said they were trying to ID the manorville body that had been found. Correct. Which he had already prepared for that potentially happening by the belief is that that's the reason he engaged in both decapitation and dismemberment. but Because he was prepared. yeah He wanted it to take a little bit longer to ID the victim. Correct.
00:31:05
Speaker
Then they get into ah page eight and page nine are about hairs recovered from the remains of Jessica Taylor. It just says during the course of this investigation, Jessica Taylor's body was examined by a forensic scientist with the Suffolk County ah Crime Laboratory, which revealed that Jessica had been decapitated, dismembered at her arms below her elbows, and revealed irregular disruption of the victim's nipples and the obliteration of her tattoo. During the examination of Jessica's body, a male human hair was recovered specifically from a surgical drape
00:31:45
Speaker
that had been underneath the victim, and they call this male hair underneath Taylor ah going forward in the document, a subsequent examination of this hair led to the determination that it was a human head hair with Caucasian slash European characteristics. However, based on the DNA testing capabilities at the SCCL at the time, it was deemed to be unsuitable for further DNA testing. The Gilgo Homicide Task Force, on or about August 24, 2023, they bring a cutting of the male hair underneath ah Taylor to an outside forensics lab, which is known as forensic lab number two in these documents. They specialize in what you were referencing, and that's forensic mitochondrial analysis.
00:32:37
Speaker
And on or about February 1st, 2024, Forensic Lab 2, they issued a report concluding that the mitochondrial DNA profile developed from this hair, male hair underneath Taylor, and the profile developed from the defendant's buckle swab. They are the same. And specifically, at the rate that they could determine in the comparison would be EMPOP database, meaning they they were using a database to to figure out where he would fall, they excluded 99.96% of the North American population as the contributor of this hair recovered underneath the first recovery of Jessica Taylor's body. So while 99.96% of the North American population can be excluded as the contributor to this male hair underneath Taylor,
00:33:33
Speaker
Defendant Huerman cannot be excluded as a contributor of the of this hair. So what did you think about that? Well, it goes further. But for this particular instance, I have gotten into the weirdest conversations with random people because I wanted to help them understand. And it ends up being just an argument. And I don't want to argue with people if they really believe in what they're saying. 0.04% of the population is a substantial number of people. It is a big number, yes. OK.
00:34:07
Speaker
however In the event that you're specifically comparing a test to a control, which would be like the evidence is the test and the and Rex Huermann would be the control in this situation, right? Because you know it's him. Yes. And you're trying to test it to see if it matches the evidence sample. If you're doing a direct comparison like that, That's really good. It's a it's a very good indication especially I used to know what the number of the 0.04 percent is, but I don't know what it is now, but it's You know, it's not a million people right? I think it's several hundred thousand people and if you and you have to consider You know, what are the odds
00:35:01
Speaker
that out of several hundred thousand people having this, ah potentially matching this, that I picked one person that matches it, right? it's It's low. The percentage is very low that you'd be able to do that. However, that has been a point of contention, though you notice it said that it took ah a ah piece of evidence, a hair under Jessica Taylor's body that was found at the time she was recovered that was unsuitable for DNA testing, and it got to the 99.96% exclusion point, and of that 0.04%, Rex Huerman is part of that percentage that cannot be excluded, right? Okay, so they've got this, they've they've got it that's like circumstantial at least, right? That's a very circumstantial piece of evidence, at least, if if you really want to argue that it's not direct evidence, right? yeah
00:36:07
Speaker
you could possibly do that, sort of. They got it past the point, and that just shows you the evolution of DNA, right? It was at a point where they couldn't test it for anything, it was unsuitable, then they could do the mitochondrial. So they take it a step further, and on or about March 8th, the Gilgo Homicide Task Force, so the same people that just did this, they take a cutting of the hair, and they take a DNA extract of Rex Huerman's Buckleswab to an outside lab that they call in here forensic lab number one. That lab applies DNA techniques and direct genome sequencing in what's described as difficult to solve forensic casework and the identification of human remains.
00:36:52
Speaker
Now, I'm thinking the whole time that I was reading that, it's way more expensive to get this test done. And that's why they have to get the 99.96 first. Correct. This is the backup. That's what I'm thinking. And well, this this is actually direct evidence. In my opinion, it is. On or about ah April 29, 2024, forensic laboratory number one, they issue a report indicating that it had developed a nuclear DNA profile for not only the male hair underneath Taylor, but also from Rex Huerman's buccal swap. They were then able to conduct a one-to-one autosomal nuclear DNA comparison between the profile from the male hair underneath Taylor
00:37:38
Speaker
And between that profile, two Rex Huerman's SNP genotype file developed from his buccal swab. And it resulted in the conclusion that the DNA profile generated from the male hair underneath Taylor is 1.837 times 10 to the 603rd power times more likely to have come from a person genetically identical to Rex Huermann's SNP genotype file than from an unrelated individual.
00:38:14
Speaker
And so that is 1,837 with 600 zeros following it.
00:38:24
Speaker
I don't even know what that actual, I don't even know how you would say that number, but that's what makes it direct as opposed to circumstantial. To me, the direct comparison element of the the test that was done from lab two earlier, that is to me direct evidence. Now granted, if it can also be direct evidence of of not being guilty, right? I mean, it's it's something for it to match or are to be excluded, right? Yeah, it absolutely could also be exculpatory. Right. and so But in this case, there's a
00:39:10
Speaker
no I don't know that I'm going to explain this very well, but essentially DNA, like they used to be able to get a very small amount of testing done with a large amount of evidence. right And then they were able to do the tandem repeats on DNA so they could like basically take a very small minuscule amount of evidence and make it into a never-ending sample available. right and they do that by duplicating it essentially. But along with making that distinction, they've also got to the point where the number of markers that they're looking at is closer and closer and closer. And so that would be more and more markers, right? Because
00:40:03
Speaker
In the mitochondrial DNA, you're going to have a huge amount of markers that don't match, and then you're going to have you know a certain amount that do match, but there's more people that they match to. In the genome sequence comparison, you're looking at like individual traits. right that are going side by side, and they get they have differentiated them to a point where only it like it's going to exclude everyone that's not the subject. Pretty much, yeah. And so in doing that, it's advanced
00:40:48
Speaker
It's a two-fold advancement. So they're able to use the technology to compare more with less, essentially. And that's why we're able to do this like never ending testing, basically. But from reading this, this is that says damning evidence. If we were looking at this, okay, if we were looking at this from the perspective of having developed a profile of a missing person, based on their DNA, and we had unidentified remains. This would be a match. Yes, no question. There's absolutely no question that the hair found underneath the remains of Jessica Taylor belonged to Rex Huerman.
00:41:33
Speaker
Yes, and that's what the prosecution goes on to say. They say, based on the foregoing, it is significant that two forensic laboratories have now independently determined that the aforementioned hair recovered from the surgical drape underneath the remains of Jessica Taylor are substantially more likely to have derived from a person genetically identical to defendant Huermann's mitochondrial and nuclear profiles, which provides further support that Rex Huermann murdered dismembered, decapitated, and transported the remains of Jessica Taylor to Manorville and Gilgo Beach until the victims' remains were ultimately discovered in July 2003 and March 2011, respectively. So now we're moving into the circumstances surrounding the family's travel in relation to the disappearance of Jessica Taylor.
00:42:30
Speaker
As part of this investigation, the task force has also established that Huerman's wife and children were out of state at the time Jessica Taylor disappeared. So at the time of Jessica Taylor's disappearance and murder, they've established that He is unfettered, basically, and that's what they call it. They say that them being out of state at the time of Ms. Taylor's disappearance and murder is a consistent theme attributable to the defendant for each of the charged homicides thus far, which would have allowed the defendant unfettered time and opportunity to execute those crimes. Specifically, in 2002 and 2003,
00:43:11
Speaker
Defendant Huerman's daughter Victoria was a kindergarten student at McKenna Elementary located in Massac Pequot Park, New York. At the time, Victoria was classmates with an individual whose identity is also known to law enforcement. ah This is Witness 2 for the sake of this document. Based
Alibis and Witness Testimonies
00:43:30
Speaker
on post-arrest interviews with witnesses, including Witness 2's family and Victoria Huerman, the Gilgo Homicide Task Force has learned that at the conclusion of the kindergarten school year, Rex's wife and two kids were on vacation with this the family of witness number two. Right. Thank you for doing that. I'm trying to leave as many innocent people out of this. I did mention Victoria because she came up in the press conference and the documents today.
00:43:55
Speaker
Well, Victoria is his daughter. Right. And that's not a secret, right? But, um, so somebody came forward and said, Hey, at the end of our kindergarten year, we went on vacation with the wife of Rex Huerman and his, uh, the two children, right? Right. And so this was from about July 20th, 2003 until July 27th up at a place called Smuggler's notch, which is a resort in Jeffersonville, Vermont. And Rex Huerman did not go on this trip. So that's, they put that together. And that's just like a circumstantial exclusion. Right. But it's backing up this other evidence. Unfettered. Because essentially he had the house to himself is what they're getting at. Correct. They go on to point out that phone records and electronic data seized during the execution of the July 2023 search warrants in their
00:44:47
Speaker
they found corroborating evidence related to the witness accounts. Agents of the Gilgo Homicide Task Force, and this is just one example, they seized AT and&T records which detailed calls made to and from the Huermann residents in July of 2003. And they do drop us like a couple of examples in here. ah and like experts, excerpts. And this is the bill that they seized from his house, right? Correct. And this essentially corroborates witness number two's statement with regard to the fact that they went on vacation and Rex wasn't there, he was back home, and then they've got a phone bill with the landline of the Huermann home calling the number of the smugglers resort.
00:45:37
Speaker
Correct. And so it's just basically setting that whole situation up, right? Yes, it is. And notably those calls that they reference here are on July 22nd and then not again until July 26th. Right. So there's ah there's a four day gap in there. They don't really talk about that, but they continue, they go on and they point out that they went into Rex's business and they point out that That number makes multiple calls during the same week. This is July 20th to 27th of 2003. So there's Manhattan calls that also go the 21st and I think the 24th.
Digital Devices and Planning Documents
00:46:21
Speaker
So basically from his office to the same resort. Now this is where it starts to get interesting for me. This is insane. Like how much work they did on it.
00:46:35
Speaker
The fact that they were able to get this. Yes. So they seize a hard drive from the basement of Rex Huerman's home, which in these documents they call it the target residence. One of the things they find is a Palm Pilot backup file, which appears to contain an old quote date book or calendar for relevant dates. from Rex Huermann's PalmPilot. They hired a digital forensic expert who, by utilizing native Palm software, was able to convert this backup into a readable file format. And they have dropped us a sample of this in here.
00:47:24
Speaker
But it basically says, date book for humor are so like the the name of the device. It has all of his time from around July 10th to July 28th marked out and in there he basically says on Sunday, Monday, ah Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday from the 20th through the 27th that wife in Vermont at smugs. There are other entries on here that seem to be work-related, but this is just the first glimpse we get at like how deep they've gone in recovering this data. ma and The reason I find it like so crazy is because, and maybe this isn't like completely, it it's I remember it, but maybe everybody doesn't. In 2003, a digital calendar was not as common as it is today. Correct.
00:48:20
Speaker
um It would have been like Palm Pilots like you know he was saying, because we're still like a few years before the smartphone here. We did have those digital assistants, right? Right. But we're a couple of years off the the really nice Black Bear in the iPhone. Right. and so when they found so They found where he had backed up his Palm Pilot, they were able to get the native Palm Pilot software and get this information. and you know They got all of it. Yes, it is fascinating to me that they did this. Here's how they conclude this section. They say based on the foregoing, the investigation to date has clearly established defendant Huerman's wife and children were indeed located out of state during the time of Jessica Taylor's disappearance, which occurred on or about July 21st, 2003. Accordingly, the murders of all four charged victims and now the murder of Ms. Taylor
00:49:15
Speaker
occurred at times when that if when defendant Huerman's wife and children were located out of state, which would have allowed defendant Huerman unfettered time to execute his plans for Ms. Taylor, which included the decapitation, dismemberment, and transportation of her remains without any fear that his family would uncover or learn of his involvement in these crimes. So that kind of wraps up the the main portion of Jessica Taylor and why they believe he's attached as simply as they can. They really do it in about 13 pages there. Do you feel like um that was sufficient?
00:49:51
Speaker
I think we're reading a bail document. I feel like it's sufficient to keep him in jail, yeah. That's all that's available, but I feel like it was sufficient to support the indictment, right? Absolutely. This isn't a trial yet. This is just the facts and circumstances that are being set forth as to why this person needs to go to trial for these charges. And this particular document is why he needs to not have bail in the meantime. They have a second section here that starts on page 15, and this is with regards to Sandra Costilla. It just says, on or about November 20th, 1993, two individuals while hunting in a wooded area of Southampton, and they put this in the vicinity of 50 Old Fish Cove Road, North Sea. and That's in Suffolk County. They discovered the remains of Sandra Costilla, and they referenced that her date of birth here
00:50:46
Speaker
is August 25th, 1965. And the this victim, she would have been 28 years old at the time. She was lying on her back with her arms outstretched over her head with her uncovered legs spread apart. She's posed. The victim's shirt had been pulled up over her torso and head, exposing the victim's breasts. The victim had numerous sharp force injuries to, for instance, her face, torso, breasts, left thigh, and vaginal area.
00:51:29
Speaker
Sandra Castilla was a native of Trinidad and Tobago, but had been living in New York prior to her disappearance and her murder. So now we're getting into why Sandra is in this mix. I had wondered about her. i I did not know a ton about her case. I had gone back through and sort of, there were, if you go on the internet and you go hunting, Meg and I spent a lot of time in newspapers dot.com and in the internet archive looking for things that have come and gone. And one of the things that you'll find about her is she is mentioned several places, not really related to Rex, but you can find information about Sandra on the internet.
00:52:08
Speaker
Now, they pull for the first section at the bottom of page 15, they highlight and pull information about quote, hairs recovered from the remains of Sandra Castilla. During the course of the 1993 investigation, Mrs. Castilla's body was examined by a forensic scientist with the Suffolk County Crime Lab. This led to the recovery of three hairs from the victim's remains. One from the victim's right arm, And this is called the female hair on Castilla, one from a tape lift of the striped shirt above the victim's head. And this one is referred to as the male hair on Castilla, as well as one from a tape lift of the white shirt above the victim's head. And this one is marked as unidentified female hair on Castilla. Collectively, ah they notate this as the hairs on Castilla.
00:53:07
Speaker
In 2014, well before the identification of Rex Huerman as a suspect in Sandra Castilla's murder, the hairs on Sandra Castilla were sent to forensic lab number two, which we've talked about further up the document here. They were able to develop a unique mitochondrial DNA profile for each of these hairs on Castilla. On or about August 1st, 2014, forensic laboratory number two received an extract of John Bittruff's buccal swab. So John Bittruff comes up here. He is a completely separate killer. We're not really going to address him in this particular episode, but at some point in the future, we're going to talk about John.
00:53:56
Speaker
Forensic lab number two was then able to develop a mitochondrial DNA profile from Bitroff's buccal swab and subsequently compared it to the mitochondrial DNA profiles that had been previously generated for each of the quote hairs on Castilla. At the conclusion of its analysis, forensic lab number two was able to exclude John Bitroff and his maternal relatives as contributors of the hairs on Castilla. Recently, the Gilgo Homicide Task Force requested that forensic lab number two undergo forensic testing specifically comparing mitochondrial DNA profiles for each of the hairs on Castilla, which had been developed back in 2014 prior to humor been emerging as a suspect in Sandra Castilla's murder to known samples provided by the Gilgo Homicide Task Force.
00:54:53
Speaker
On or about February 29th of 2024, forensic lab number two issued a report concluding that the that the mitochondrial DNA profile developed from the male hair on Castilla and the profile developed from the defendant's buccal swab are the same, specifically at a rate that would, as per the MPOP database that we talked about earlier, exclude 99.96% of the North American population. Based on the foregoing, while 99.96% of the North American population can be excluded, defendant Huerman cannot be excluded as a contributor of the male hair on Castilla. Prior to Sandra Castilla's disappearance and murder, defendant Huerman had been living with a female individual whose identity is known to law enforcement, and she's marked here as witness three. During the course of this investigation,
00:55:50
Speaker
The Gilgo Homicide Task Force was able to secure a buckle swap from Witness 3, which was secured via her consent. On or about March 29th of 2024, the Gilgo Homicide Task Force brought a DNA extract of Witness 3's buckle swap to Forensic Laboratory 2 for further analysis. On or about May 8th, 2024, forensic lab number two issued a report concluding that the mitochondrial DNA profile developed from witness three's buccal swab. And the profile developed from the female hair on Sandra Castilla shared a common base at all compared positions, specifically at a rate that would in the MPOP database exclude 99.98%
00:56:41
Speaker
of the North American population as a contributor of this hair. And while 99.98% of the North American population can be excluded as a contributor of the female hair on Castilla, Witness 3, who had but no longer resided at this other target residence prior to Miss Castilla's disappearance and murder, cannot be excluded as a contributor of said hair recovered on Sandra Castillo. So this number is even more likely in its initial comparison than Rex as a matchup. Correct. So on or about ah March 8, 2024, the Gilgo Beach Homicide Task Force brought a cutting of the hairs on Castillo as well as a DNA extract of witness tree's buccal swab to forensic lab number one. They do the same thing that they did before.
00:57:40
Speaker
And essentially at a later date, April 29th, 2024, forensic lab number one issued a report indicating its ability to develop a nuclear DNA profile for the male hair on Castilla. So this is kind of new information for all of us here, but that forensic lab, they were then able to pull a profile that hadn't been pulled before. And they compared that profile from the male hair on Castillo to Rex Huerman's S and&P genotype file that they had already developed from his buccal swab. And this resulted in the conclusion that the DNA profile generated from male hair on Sandra Castillo, which was recovered from her remains,
00:58:27
Speaker
is 4.347 times 10 to the 332nd power times more likely to have come from a person genetically identical to Rex Huerman's SNP genotype file than from an unrelated person. You want to talk about that for a second before I read the conclusions here? I was just going to say that that is going to be 4,578 with 1037 zeros after.
00:59:02
Speaker
so It's a match. Additionally, they go on to say that basically they match Witness 3's hair and they match this hair. and Based on the foregoing, it is significant that two forensic laboratories have now independently determined that male hair covered recovered from the mutilated remains of Sandra Costilla is substantially more likely to have derived from a person genetically identical to defendant Huerman's mitochondrial and nuclear profiles. Additionally, both labs were also able to forensically tie witness three, who had resided at the target residence prior to Sandra Costilla's disappearance and murder,
00:59:45
Speaker
to the female hair recovered on Miss Castilla's remains. So they're saying this provides further support that Rex Huerman mutilated, murdered, and transported the body of Sandra Castilla to Southampton. I agree with it. There's a chart that they throw up here that kind of breaks out the the different hairs. i don't want to i don't know I don't know how deep we want to get into the chart itself. We've already covered most of it like in different places. It's basically just, it's just going, it goes through where the hair was recovered on each victim. Yes.
01:00:22
Speaker
and the link that was made. And so in all the cases, including now Sandra Castilla's hair, because I don't know if you recall this or not, but last summer there was a brief buzz with regard to the fact that his wife's hair was connected to, I believe it was Megan Waterman, but I'm not actually sure. One of the victims that he was indicted for initially, they were like, oh, maybe she's in on it, right? Yeah, it was Megan Waterman, yeah. Okay, but the the implication there, it's not that his wife was in on it, and they went even further with regard to the investigation to say like, yeah, his wife wasn't in on it because she was out of town every time with her children and other people, right? But it's the correlation of the fact that
01:01:14
Speaker
He's being genetically linked through DNA evidence to these crimes and there's implications that they were in his environment because other sort of surrounding people who would leave hair behind in their home, right? Their stuff was ending up on these victims. Correct. And so that's what's being said there. It's not that they're like saying witness three was involved. They're just saying it's very coincidental. Right. Yeah. They do indicate in here that his wife and daughter are linked to right now, three of the victims. And Sandra Castilla is linked to and another unnamed witness. Right. And that was it. That's through genetic DNA testing.
01:02:04
Speaker
Correct. And this is pretty extensive testing. I'm not saying that like we should just believe this. I'm saying if they're doing what they said they did here, they have done everything right, and the testimony and scientific proof will bear it out. If they haven't, that will also come out. But this appears to me to be completely legit. To your point, which what you said was they had sort of used it to rule out wife and daughter because they were always out of town. Witness three had left the target residents two months. the I'm just asking you this kind of off the cuff. You know who witness three is, right?
01:02:46
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So she had left ah the the target resonance roughly two months before all of this happened. So again, she's not believed to be involved. It's just that Rex Huerman made a mistake and didn't even realize it. that So there's a hair there that links back to the target residence, which is his house. Right. And it indicates that at that point in time, his mother wasn't living at the residence either. Correct. And so they're using that to circumstantially illustrate some of the other factors with the unfettered access. Right. So they're illustrating what would be part of his m MO.
01:03:28
Speaker
Correct. And so that is actually a really key point. And it's going to be relevant when we start trying to figure out, like, what else is this ogre responsible for? Correct. Yeah. Because he has this very particular situation. And there's no telling how many lives were saved by the fact that he ended up getting married and having children, right? In theory. I mean, it it's interesting, right? um Because when I read that she had only been gone for like two months, I was like, well, so there's only, I actually don't know when Sandra went missing. The time period we're dealing with in terms of Sandra, ah it is between September and November in 1993. And that includes like him being alone and planning whatever he does to plan.
01:04:27
Speaker
I don't believe she was missing for very long. um I will try and confirm that the next time we come back and talk about her. Right. And so I think she could be so really relevant because of sort of the circumstances they're building up here. um If you compare it to the later cases, she was found very quickly. Yes. Okay. And so I think that he was, like you were saying, sort of teaching himself and like learning as he was going, right? Yeah. He does some things with the 2003 case that he didn't do with 93 and then he changes everything the further along we get.
01:05:10
Speaker
I don't have a lot on that right this second because honestly they haven't been very forthcoming in terms of like telling us more about what else they suspect of this guy and I'm okay with that right now. They do have some more stuff in this document. We're on ah about page 21 here and this was the part I really wanted to talk about. I feel like they've given us all kinds of information. And of course, i I'm you know internally speculating, but I'm speaking to myself based on some other stuff that's gonna come out. He he was probably really disappointed in himself if this was his first victim and she was caught ah she was found so quickly. I am honest to God, I'm shocked he's still alive. I'll just say it that way.
01:05:54
Speaker
why Because once you start seeing this, um we've seen this with numerous serial killers over the years. Yeah, this is the time. You can't get up high enough. yeah This is the time. This is the time we lose them is all I'll say. And um i I'm shocked that he's still here. The next section they have on page 28 and 21 is called newly discovered digital evidence. And we had talked at length about kind of how deep they had dug into his web searches. I have never seen anything like what I'm about to tell you about. Following human's arrest, numerous search warrants were executed at the Target residence, which is his home. They seized, as Meg stated, over 350 electronic devices.
01:06:42
Speaker
In the months subsequent to Huerman's arrest, the Gilgo Homicide Task Force has attempted to extract and analyze data from each of these devices. An analysis of these devices has revealed Huerman's significant collection of violent bondage and torture pornography dating back currently to 1994. The pornographic images accessed by Huerman include, but are not limited to, Breast mutilation, vaginal torture, sex substitution, which would they use an example here of like piquerism or penetration with an object. ah Those are two different things we'll get to. The sexualization of decapitated women, bondage, and whipping, which notably and largely coincide with how the remains of Sandra Castillo, Jessica Taylor, and Valerie Mack were discovered.
01:07:42
Speaker
Moreover, during the analysis of a hard drive recovered from the basement of Euermann's residence, the Gilgo Homicide Task Force recently discovered a Microsoft Word document entitled HK 2002-04. The document was discovered in, quote, unallocated space. Allocated space refers to stored data that a computer uses. Unallocated space it refers to available but unstructured data, which typically is not readily viewable. Frequently, unallocated space contains room for quote new data or old data that has been deleted, sent to the recycling bin, or overwritten. For example, when a user deletes data, users think the file is gone forever.
01:08:34
Speaker
But deleting a file actually only tells the computer that the space previously occupied by that file is now available for use. The deleted data remains in this unallocated space until another file is written over it. Data contained within unallocated space can be retrieved by a computer forensic extraction called file carving. That's the method they use here. And this is interesting because this is something that I know I don't see enough. Especially just the depth and breadth that we covered as real keys case like they did not do this. um File carving would be I do realize that keys did not have 350 electronic devices for them to go through because he dumped his.
01:09:25
Speaker
Well, his his dumping of the devices is what would have prevented it. Having a new device, it's not as useful on newer devices because you haven't deleted as much yet. and it is now like It is a complex process. Yeah, but it's worth it in any murder case. I would agree with that, particularly serial murder cases. Right. and so part of this interesting thing i I do think that Rex Herman is in the age bracket that thought he had deleted it forever. Oh, absolutely. And that he needed to hold on to everything he's ever owned. Because why else would you have 350 electronic devices in your room? Yeah, there's definitely some kind of hoarding of devices going on here or the fear of them being out in the world, I guess.
01:10:17
Speaker
Well, they could have been destroyed. Well, I mean, obviously it's a benefit to society that they were available. It is. And we're about to tell you why. This is among the most interesting analyses I've seen in a very long time. Forensic analysis of this HK 2002 to 2004 document reveals that it was not only a locally created draft, meaning on a device, not on the internet. But it was also recovered from a hard drive that indicated it was utilized by Huberman himself. While the original document appears to have been created in 2000, based on the title, this iteration of the Word document titled HK2002-2004 appears to have been created and modified between 2001 and 2002.
01:11:08
Speaker
Based on the foregoing and the facts set forth here, the Task Force members believe 2000 or 2002 is a reference to calendar years. The Task Force members also believe, based on the foregoing and the facts set forth, that the Microsoft Word document was a planning document utilized by Huberman to methodically blueprint and plan out his quote, kills. here and after referred to as HK Planning Document, and they've attached an example for us. So are they saying that that stands for Hurman Kells? Yep. Yeah, okay. And so we've got this starting at 2000 and then being modified to be 2002 to 2004. Correct.
01:11:54
Speaker
And Sarah, that makes my brain spin. It does. It does. Because I start going, you know, Valerie Mac, I believe went missing in 2000, right? um Valerie Mac went missing from Philadelphia. Well, she was in Philadelphia. She goes missing in 2000. I think her remains get discovered in November. So I think it would have been, but I think when she didn't show up nobody had seen her around the holidays. I think that's really when people started wondering about her. Right, and Sarah, because she's close to where Jessica Taylor was found, and I guess she just didn't have any hair on her. That's what my conclusion was. Yeah, we're not there yet, basically. Anyway, yeah, go ahead. No, I'm saying we're not.
01:12:43
Speaker
We're like the the read the only reason she's not on the indictment is because she didn't have a hair like Jessica Taylor and Sandra Castilla did. Right, right. So basically they haven't put enough together to link him and indict her. But it sounds like they're really close. ah Yeah, they're they're referencing her here. This document says, the ASK planning document began with a four category section with underlined headings. The headings were, problem supplies DS and TRG. They put us a nice little embedded excerpt in here. and it It looks like a ah notes file that you put in columns on like a ah Microsoft Word document. Problems is on the left-hand side.
01:13:30
Speaker
And it says DNA, tire marks, bloodstains, fingerprints, M slash O. And for some reason there, he puts plastic bag slash cat litter. Then it says witness, trace source of supplies, foot slash shoe prints, photos, question mark, misleaders, question mark, police stop, truck stuck, fingerprints fingerprints in gloves. Platic meaning plastic but he misspelled it. Bags matched to box. Hair and fiber. So this is his problems list. Then the second list to the right of problems is supplies. And these are just bullet point lists with little dash marks on them by the way. This one says booties. Lie spelled L-I-E slash acid. Police scanner spelled scanner.
01:14:25
Speaker
Rope slash cord, saw slash cutting tools, hair nets, photo film, burn can, foam drain cleaner, body wash slash wipes, tarps slash drop cloths, medical gloves, bags slash tape, large elect clips, ratcheted cargo strap. Then the next area is DS, and this one says DS-1, Mill Road. The second one says DS-2, five question marks, six question marks. ah Dumpster site, next time recon dumpster locations, misspelled dumpster. The fourth column is TRG, and it says T-1,
01:15:25
Speaker
Megan, question mark, small is good. And then it says T-UNK, parentheses, black. So the TRG stands for a target, right? Yeah, so then they, yeah, that's what they do next is they break this out for us like baby style. So did you think that like ah the problems column denotes issues that he's found? I think it's a mixture of things he's read about seen on television and run into himself. Right. So as he, so, you know, we've got Sandra Castilla in 93, right? And so this would be, become that so in theory, if he's responsible for Valerie Mac, which he's not indicted for yet, this would have already occurred, but he would be coming up to Jessica Taylor. Correct. ah Based on the the dates that are in the title here. Correct.
01:16:21
Speaker
And so what it says, as far as the Homicide Task Force, they're just giving us a couple of things to to use this. It says, based on the Gilgo Homicide Task Force training and experience, the members believe problems to be a guide on issues to avoid apprehension, and then the supplies column to be a reference to what supplies are needed to carry out the serial murders to avoid apprehension and to avoid leading behind DNA evidence. The DS heading appears to be an acronym for dump sites, which is corroborated by the discoveries of Valerie Mack and Jessica Taylor at two separate, quote, dump sites in the vicinity of Mill Road and Ocean Parkway. Under that same heading is a note in regarding dumpster sites, which the task force believes is a reference to how human dispose of physical evidence, um which is going to be described here in a minute. He said, see the dispose of the following section.
01:17:18
Speaker
TRG appears to be a reference to a target or a victim. It is important to note that the known victims thus far are all petite women, which is consistent with the word small is good entry in the document, leading further support to the aforementioned conclusion that TRG refers to victims or targets. With regards to the DS section of the document, it's important to note that the human remains of Jessica Taylor discovered in 2003, as well as the remains of Valerie Mack in 2000, were dumped in two locations, one of those locations being the vicinity of Mill Road, which is listed as DS Mill Road in the above Word document.
01:18:00
Speaker
On March 29, 2011, Ms. Taylor's torso, skull, and hands are recovered near Ocean Parkway, i.e. a second dump site. And on April 4, 2011, Ms. Mack's skull, hands, and right foot were recovered near Ocean Parkway, which would also be a second dump site. The recent discovery of this document prompted the April 2024 Cadaver search of the Mannerville area, which did not yet yield the recovery of additional sets of human remains, thereby reinforcing the task force members belief that the planning document refers to Huermann's preparations for either Jessica Taylor and or Valerie Mack. The planning document on Huermann's computer then delves into a three category section with the headings of pre-prep,
01:18:51
Speaker
prep and post event. And they've given us an excerpt here. So pre-prep is on the far left side. It's another set of columns with sort of a bullet point list underneath, but it says vehicle inspection, engage T1, recon DS1, locate DS2, weather report, recon vid cameras, recon pick zone for vid cams.
01:19:21
Speaker
Next to it on the right is a second section that says prep, set up stage, holding area, build table, crossbar, hardpoint. And the third area says post event. The word destroy is misspelled here, but it says destroy file, D-I-S-T-R-O-Y, change tires, burn gloves, dispose of PICS, P-I-C, apostrophe S, have story set. It looks like changed tires is in a, talent it has italics. Yeah, it's italicized. That's weird. Yeah. Um, the Gilgo Homicide Task Force members believe that pre-prep is a guide on steps to take an advance of a homicide.
01:20:09
Speaker
And they just say basically inspecting the vehicle, engaging the target, conducting a recon or reconnaissance of an area or surveying ah surveying an area. um They include ah surveying ah for video surveillance cameras in pertinent areas, including the picked zone, which is a place where the victim would be picked up, and checking the weather to ensure for optimal conditions. PrEP, on the other hand, appears to be a reference to steps taken closer in time to the homicide. setting up the staging area, holding area, and table crossbar hardpoint for the victim. Specifically, the prep section has five entries, and it renames them, set up stage, holding area, build table, crossbar, and hardpoint. The homicide task force members are aware that a crossbar is often placed underneath tables to provide further structural support for heavier objects being placed on a table. Additionally, the task force members are aware that a hardpoint
01:21:10
Speaker
refers to in the field of sexual suspension bondage, a fixed attachment point in the ceiling that supports the weight of an individual being suspended off of the ground, which is further corroborated by Huerman's significant interest in pornography, where the subject is either suspended, tortured, bound to a table, decapitated, and or their breasts are mutilated. which is consistent with with the foregoing notations regarding suspension as well as the condition of the victims described herein. Additionally, post event appears to reference a checklist of tasks following the event or homicide to avoid apprehension. Destroy and you know points out spelling and context, file, change tires, burn gloves, dispose of picks, and then it goes on to say taken of the victims and have story set.
01:22:02
Speaker
for instance, an alibi, a story for the family upon the return, or law enforcement should any inquiry be made. The planning document continues to further expound on preparatory measures such as specific recon steps to take. So we break down into yet another section in this document where he says recon reports, takedown and pickups, body prep, and dispose of the following. So the first one is recon reports. they They're showing us examples of this, by the way. And it says, video cameras on the Long Island Expressway, or LIE, route 112 to route 110, equal 33. And he puts old, O-L-D. The second one says, VidCams on SS Parkway, route 231 to exit 30, equal 10, old.
01:22:56
Speaker
And then he says, T1 info for his third item. And he's got a cell phone number and he's got a beep slash voicemail number. And it says old. He says, take down slash pickup in a new section. It says hunt too long, seen an area too long. Remember, don't charge gas and recon for VidCams and pickup area next time. ah The body prep session says wash body inside in all cavities, remove trace evidence fingerprint slash hair, remove trace DNA, remove ID marks, tattoos and marks, remove marks from torture, remove head and hands, package for transport.
01:23:42
Speaker
And then it says dispose of the following, and it has another bullet point list. Tools and devices, T1 clothes and personal items, drop clothes, he means cloth, but it's misspelled, wipes and towels, props, toys, wood items, anything that touched T1, what you wore, Destroy book and computer files. Burn gloves. Dispose a box of plastic BAS to avoid trace. Bags? Plastic bags misspelled maybe? Yeah, I think so.
01:24:16
Speaker
The body prep section, which includes a note to remove head and hands, clearly relates to the condition of Jessica Taylor's and Valerie Mack's remains, as both victims were decapitated and dismembered at their arms below their elbows. Additionally, each of these victims' remains, as well as the remains of the Gilgo IV, were indeed packaged for transport. As this section indicates to do, further increasing the significance of this document's presence on Huermann's laptop computer. Finally, this section also includes a note to remove ID marks, tattoos, also spelling in context, he misspelled it. As noted, the examination of Jessica Taylor's body in July 2003 indicated numerous sharp linear injuries to the victim's skin, specifically around where her tattoo had been located. Investigators believe this was intended to inhibit the identification of the tattoo and therefore Jessica Taylor
01:25:15
Speaker
in a manner consistent with this HK planning document. Furthermore, the dispose of the following section lists destroy computer files also misspelled as a checklist item. The presence of this HK planning document in unallocated space demonstrates Huerman's efforts to destroy or delete computer files in a manner that is consistent with this notation. And then they they talk a little more about this document. In the, quote, things to remember section, there are notes indicating steps to take, quote, next time. For example, considering a hit to the face or neck next time, using heavier rope for the neck as the light rope broke under stress of being tightened, also misspelled. Huerman further opines on the importance of sleep to not only avoid problems, but also to increase what Huerman refers to as, quote, playtime.
01:26:14
Speaker
Things to remember section is is laid out for us in a picture here. And it says, sound travels. For instance, bird outside, in parentheses. Control the amount of air in and out to control the noise made. The second bullet point says, get sleep before hunt. Too tired creates problems. Three, hit harder. Too many hit to take down. Consider a hit to the face or neck next time for take down. Four, and he doesn't have numbers in here. I'm separating these ideas by numbers of my own volition. More sleep and noise control equal more playtime. Five, use push pins to hang drop cloths from ceiling, not tape. Six, use heavy rope for neck. Light rope broke under stress of being tightened.
01:27:10
Speaker
And then he goes back to the same thing with takedown slash pickup. Hunt too long, seen an area too long. Remember, don't charge gas. Recon for VidCams to pick up area next time. It goes a little further to a note section that says, spur of the moment, cover, question mark Stockholm syndrome. The more you do, the more clues you give. Look at the quote, painting. what Why, who? Organized versus disorganized, which are barely spelled in a way that we could even understand. It really says originized versus disorganized. Yeah, and this is a Word document. Yep. So, like, autocorrect was a thing. He's not spell checking his kill plan. Right, but it showed up. Like, it would have, like, red underlines.
01:28:09
Speaker
Yeah. Well, he's got one more item on here I'm going to read after the origin eyes versus dis-origin eyes. It says page 62, sex substitution, pages one sixty three page page 175.
01:28:28
Speaker
Meg's laughing because this is all misspelled, but it says dis-organia-ged-origin eyes. Read the other word too. and mulettic He means mutilation and disorganized. and Which is not funny at all. but It's only funny in the context of it's hard to read, but here's what's wild about that. The investigation to date has established that the source of these three notes, page 162, page 163, and page 175 is the Mine Hunter paperback published in 1996 by John Douglas. This is the first edition of it, which I have on my shelf.
01:29:06
Speaker
concerning the criminal profiling of serial killers. So the notes section that has page 162, sex substitution, page 162 of this book does indeed reference sex substitution, which is penetration with an object to a degree. As Douglas describes the rather horrible sexual mutilation and masturbation over the victim's body without intercourse. ah There's penetration with an umbrella and a pen as acts of sexual substitution. On page 163, Douglas opines that the perpetrator of such a crime, meaning sex substitution, would be a disorganized killer who would be compulsive and perhaps living with his parents. Accordingly, this notation, which is within this H.K. Planning document, is consistent with the aforementioned book
01:30:01
Speaker
in page number and the subject matter. So they match this up to be mutilation and organized versus disorganized and sex substitution in the Mindhunter book. The section that said page 175 refers or seems to refer to where Douglas in the Mindhunter first edition describes a woman's screams and shortly thereafter how the woman's throat had been cut and her naked body mutilated. Douglas further asserts on page 175 of this book that mutilation is a sign of a disorganized personality type. Accordingly, this notation contained in this document is consistent with this book in page number and subject matter. Now, there's a note at the bottom that I read that said, look at the quote painting, what, why, who. On page 19 of this book,
01:30:54
Speaker
John Douglas notes that while he was still at the FBI, he advised his a agents that if you want to understand the artist, you have to look at the painting. And the artist there references the perpetrator. The painting references the victim. He said, we've looked at many paintings over the years, and we have talked extensively to the most accomplished artists. Accordingly, the note above contained in Uerman's laptop computer to look at the painting, yet again, points to the aforementioned book as the source of Uerman's notes and commentary. The other notations, spur of the moment, cover, Stockholm syndrome, the more you do, the more clues you give, are all individually contained in the book, Mine Hunter, in the first edition, all pointing to
01:31:47
Speaker
the John Douglas Mark Olshaker books as something that Rex Hureman was using to change how he appeared as a killer. Okay, so that's what you got out of that? ah Yeah. That's interesting. So do you think that he realized that he was coming across as disorganized and he was geared to not be considered disorganized? Yeah. OK. Yeah, that's what I got from it so far. I was just curious because I couldn't figure out if he was trying to portray a certain thing, if he was trying to change it up. But I think that the painting of the port, like you have to look at the whole painting, the artist, you know, who painted it and what they painted and why. And i so I think that he's headed more towards like this sort of legacy type thing.
01:32:48
Speaker
Um, could be that, or it could be, I still think of it as how to not get caught. You're saying it's how to be remembered? Well, after, I believe, after Jessica Taylor, he stopped mutilating the bodies. I can't confirm that, but it sounds right. at least to the extent he was doing, because I have never heard that like any of the Gilgo Beach forward decapitated or had their hands cut off or anything. Well, they also are all found kind of in a bunch, if you want to call it that, with a like in a very different way, completely as we stated, completely by Shannon Gilbert.
01:33:32
Speaker
Right. but And so because of the bad spelling and all the other things that I draw my attention, the mutilation equal disorganized. It sounds like it's like a specific call out that he specifically stopped doing shortly after he would have made this note. So you think, hmm. Okay, I don't know the answer to that question yet. It could be that he didn't care if he, it could be him changing his MO. Okay, because if you notice in one of the notes, he has his MO as plastic bag and cat litter, which I don't think anybody ever picked up on. I don't even understand what it means.
01:34:17
Speaker
He's saying like like he is equating like his modus operon. So they were probably He probably used that to some extent with some of his first victims because it would be something that connected them. And in his brain is what I'm saying. And so he's like looking to change that up, but nobody, I've never heard that discussed. Like I know the canvas bags or the burlap bags or whatever became a thing, right? Yeah. He is evaluating
01:34:52
Speaker
lots of different things here. And I do think that he is specifically calling out like, the mutilation lends me to being a disorganized killer and then he stops. Now, it would have been available, I think, for them to have been able to tell like, okay, when did he modify a note section, right? Yes. And I think we have that information. I mean, they there's no reason for it to necessarily be in this document to prove its existence, but that would be relevant, right? Because in the event that he made this, like, he recalled this and said, well, I don't want to be a disorganized serial killer. And my clear, meat because he didn't, he did not,
01:35:44
Speaker
just figure Sandra Castilla to the point where she had no head, right? Correct. So that mutilation wasn't done, but she was identified very quickly, right? She was found and identified quickly. And then he, you know, if we go in order, Valerie Mac is probably his victim, but he's not indicted for her, but she was mutilated and there's two dump sites involved with her body, with her remains, right? Right, it's identification based, but yes.
01:36:20
Speaker
Right, okay, and so he's it but you can make the connection between how Sandra Castilla's event went, right, according to his planning documents here, versus his desired outcome and the changes that he made in the meantime. if he waited that long. Keeping in mind, you know, we can look up information with regard to like, when did he marry his wife and all kinds of stuff to kind of figure out what kind of timeline we're looking at there. But he wasn't satisfied with what occurred in 1993. And I don't know if it actually was a span ti until until 2000 or 2003, depending. But
01:37:04
Speaker
You can see the changes he makes and also keep in mind that between 93 and 2000 and 1996 his book come out. Correct. And he's reading it and he thinks, well, I'm going to mutilate the body so they're not ah they're not identified as quickly. Which, I mean, he did that, but additionally, he changed his dump ah style. And while part of the remains were discovered quickly, the other parts were discovered for a really long time, right? Because the second disposal, or maybe third disposal method, seemed to be something he at least stuck with for a couple of years.
01:37:48
Speaker
in there ba and And then he makes this like mental nerd like, oh, wow, I mutilated my victims. And it helped like a little bit with what I was trying to accomplish in doing that. But it makes me look like a disorganized killer. And I don't want to be a disorganized killer. So you think he's just yeah spell it. You think he's just trolling out here, basically. I think that he's self-conscious about like what he's doing says about him, yeah even though nobody knows it's him. I feel like he's making this evolution that we're kind of seeing come out here, right? I think you're right, yeah. And so in looking at this and going, oh, because
01:38:33
Speaker
He got away with this, and that's something that you know cannot be stressed enough. it you
Indictment Process and Legal Strategy
01:38:39
Speaker
know Even if it's just, um if 1993 was his first victim, he got away with it until 23. Yeah, so basically 30 years. And that's something. So he had this sort of evolving sense of what he was doing, And there's probably more information. I don't know how applicable all of these these sort of ah planning papers that were deleted on his computer. I don't know how applicable they are to the Gilgo 4. Not to mention, keep in mind, they'd already established the no bond on
01:39:23
Speaker
the Gilgo Beach 3 initial, the superseding indictment, right, from the fourth victim. And so this is just with regard to Jessica Taylor and Sandra Castilla, right? Correct. And so it's not like they had to, you know, go through, there may be another document just like this, like relating to those other killings, right? There could be, and they just didn't need it for in terms of... That's what I'm saying, because this is just justifying further that he still does not deserve bond and that um there's these two new indictments. And so this is what's relevant to Jessica Taylor. And they threw Valerie Mack in there. And I have a feeling whoever wrote this filing
01:40:08
Speaker
might have had it in their head. They may have been trying to get an indictment for her because she is listed in here at least twice. They may not have tried yet, but she's yeah, she's in here a couple of times. They may not have tried for an indictment or they may have. I don't know. Well, from a circumstantial standpoint, you've got her body disposal kind of mimicking, or I guess it happened before, but it's it's very similar to Jessica Taylor's. and And yes, it is. And so, circumstantially speaking, it it that's a strong circumstance. It is.
01:40:48
Speaker
um I've got one or two more pages here. I'm going to go over and then we'll kind of start talking in the direction of wrapping this up. It says, the foregoing is corroborated, meaning everything I just talked about, about John Douglas and this document, by Huermann's possession of other serial killer books authored by John Douglas. During the initial search warrant execution in July, 2023, at his target residence, the task force observed that Huermann possessed in his home office the book entitled, The Cases That Haunt Us. which outlines the facts, evidence, and victimology of several notable serial murder cases. And then, so kind of in conclusion, they point out that the Gilgo Homicide Task Force members believe that the totality of circumstances surrounding this planning document, including Huermann's attempt to delete its existence, points to it as Huermann's self-education and, quote, homework on the topic of carrying out serial sexual murder.
01:41:44
Speaker
Huerman's pointed concerns regarding one, avoiding being captured on video surveillance, two, leaving behind forensic evidence, three, what supplies to purchase, four, how to package a body for subsequent transportation to quote dump sites. and they reference all the things from that list. Five, avoiding a paper trail tying into crimes or crime scenes. Six, concerns regarding noise and or air travel, which inhibit playtime. And seven, how to improve, quote, next time, further confirm merely by looking within the four corners of the document itself, its relevance in this regard.
01:42:20
Speaker
This belief is further corroborated when looking at a litany of external factors, including how the six victims, now attributable to Huerman, were indeed packaged and transported, and in the case of Mrs. Taylor, miss taylor how her head, hands, and tattoo were removed and or obliterated, consistent with the document's instructions. Furthermore, an analysis of Huerman's computers confirms the HK planning document was in in unallocated space, and had hence been deleted, which is consistent with not only the quote destroyed computer files notation, but also Huerman's establishment use of forensic wiping software. They point out that he would face multiple sentences of life without parole, and they request that he be remanded without bail. Andrew Lee signed off on it ah for Raymond Tierney. Andrew Lee is the assistant district attorney who signatures on the document, and they basically says
01:43:15
Speaker
Based on the serious heinous nature of these serial murders, the strength of the people's case, the life incarceration the defendant faces upon conviction, the extreme measures this defendant took to attempt to avoid apprehension for over a decade, and defendants' indictment on these additional charges, which now incorporate a fifth and sixth victim, the people remain steadfast that the only means to ensure the defendants return to court is to remand the defendant without bail. ah Then they go on to include the documents that I've been talking about like they have basically photo copies of them in here, a couple of pages worth. This was so fascinating to me.
01:43:52
Speaker
So was it everything you thought it would be? Yeah, it kind of is. um there I feel like there's overtones here that are specifically geared towards the magnitude of this case, because obviously all this information is not necessary to be filed in a bail application filing, right? Yes. And so they're giving information. They're saying, look at what we've got, yeah right? Not only that. they've They're doing this, you're right. It's a bail application. it's They're giving just enough information to say, hold him forever. And in a way, um they are being very successful. Right. the The one thing they're trying to combat here more than anything else is the fact that the Long Island serial killer cases and all of these cases that are included here and then went so long, having so many documented
01:44:51
Speaker
persons of interest and suspects like that. Some are internet based, some are different forms of law enforcement based. There was just so much going on with all of this that they don't want any chance of him walking. And that what you're seeing here is the tearing down of any available form of reasonable doubt. But at this point, we're just seeing what I assume is sort of the tip of the iceberg. If he has that many devices and this many references in now three bail documents on like all of the pornography he's ah assimilated over the years, assembled over the years for his collection, all of ah these travel patterns that his family appears to have. I think that this case is going to be more rock solid than most cases that that you or or I or or most courts have ever seen. And um ah that that part just fascinates me.
01:46:04
Speaker
I find it particularly interesting how they've gone that extra mile to match like the females in his life's DNA just to, because in the event he worked to successfully explain away his DNA, it's going to be really hard to explain away both of their DNA. It's impossible. I agree, I feel like that's what they're aiming towards actually to make it impossible. And it's really interesting that he was, I think even though Douglas's book said that mutilation equal disorganization on the part of the killer, I feel like ah the fact that these documents exist, he's clearly an organized killer, right? yeah
01:46:54
Speaker
And it's interesting that, you know, that's all his, I mean, John Douglas was an expert and he was able to kind of put stuff together so people could have a better understanding of his field of expertise, but it's not like, you know, black and white, right? There's a lot of gray area here. And it's interesting, for one thing, I'm starting to think it's a requirement of serial killers to not be able to spell. No kidding. His spelling is really bad, which is, It's weird, but at the same time, like his, he he was looking for a guide to the extent that he was even, you know, cause in a bigger picture, of course, in 2024 with him having been arrested for this and them filing these examples of the evidence that they found to keep him without bail.
01:47:47
Speaker
We're able to go, yeah, regardless of what anybody says, expert or not, this is the result of someone being very organized in their efforts, right? Because people that aren't organized don't have this. But he didn't recognize at the time. he was He was literally going off of exactly what he read out of the experts book, right? And so that would have been 20 years ago. ye And so it's interesting to see that evolution sort of happen and how we're able to see certain things now versus um him relying on certain things then. it's It's
Reflections on the Case and Future Coverage
01:48:28
Speaker
so fascinating to me. This was a lot of information. I think that it's... Well, I was being boiled down into these news bites and I really wanted to go through the whole thing so people understood that like behavioral science just changed forever.
01:48:43
Speaker
it It really did. and In fact, it contradicts a lot of what's been said, but you know i I still don't fault the experts in that because they were really trying to make something that's really hard for most people to understand more understandable. yeahp and The interest that's been generated in it was worthwhile right because you know you have all this these other elements to this fascinating part of true crime and serial killers, right? And Rex Huerman is a genuine, predatory, sexual, sadist, serial killer. He absolutely is. And he um got away with it for a really long time. And after reading through these documents and sort of imagining what the larger picture of the situation is, which I i never do,
01:49:42
Speaker
These victims were tortured and it's horrifying. Yep. And I never think about that. And you know, I have a lot of sympathy for the victims in the position that they ended up being. But this just takes it to this whole new level. And, you know, when you hear about this ogre, of a man making notes about next time how he needs to take him down faster and it doesn't need to take as many hits to knock him out or whatever he was saying. Like, what kind of man is that? What kind of person is that? um Right? Yeah. Well, I don't, I don't have a lot more on this right now. I wanted to share this document and I wanted to get your thoughts on it.
01:50:31
Speaker
You asked me what kind of man and what kind of a person this is. ah This is a very, very, very rare instance of us seeing what is essentially a Golden Age serial killer caught in modern times and what it would look like in terms of if they did get away with it long enough to do some damage. The other thing that's interesting about him is we don't know the extent to which like the victim list looks like. But I can tell you this, from this document, what he was doing was extremely complicated. And that makes the victim list shorter, which is good. Unfortunately, it makes what was done to the victims that are confirmed pretty horrible.
01:51:17
Speaker
Right, because we're talking about him having them in his house for an extended period of time. Correct. Yeah, this is um this is a situation where you are dealing with a man with basically a dungeon. Even if it's not a dungeon per se, like all the things that horror movies and crime stories and true crime has taught us over the years can happen, where someone is genuinely caught by a sexual status, which is a 0.001% of people who kill more than one person. It's very, very rare. i One of the things that stuck out with all the information that was given was to use thumbtacks instead of tape. yeah And I actually had this horrifying visualization of
01:52:06
Speaker
what I see is Rex Huerman with his victim and like the towels that he has up over the windows falling down because the tape's not holding and him like freaking out trying to get it to stick. That's what's going through my mind. Yeah, you know I can see, unfortunately, my middle capacity for visualization is unboundless. and so These documents, I think, I think some people see them in kind of black and white and and have some images. um I see them in like rolling like 35 millimeter Kodachrome. So I do know what he did to these victims at this point, and it is horrible. Right. And i I get, I don't think quite as much visualization, but like that's stuff I've never thought of before, but just like the ridiculousness of all of it.
01:53:01
Speaker
He took away these young girls' lives for absolutely no reason. And he got away with it, which I feel like is one of the driving forces beyond behind the reason I am always so interested to look into cases where justice hasn't been served because I feel like that's just icing on the cake for one of these people. yeah When they just continue to get away with it. and I'm so glad that ah he's not going to anymore. Yeah. So if you stuck it at this long, I'm glad that you guys heard us out. Do you have anything else on Rex today? No, I'm definitely done with him for today. Yeah. We have, um, I'd say by the end of the year, we'll have covered 10 to 12 more serial killers and a bunch of missing persons cases. Um, Meg and I have been looking into, uh,
01:53:55
Speaker
a cold case, it's going to be a series at some point in the coming months here, and it'll be its own standalone feed as well. um I don't have a lot more on Rex Huerman right now, but I will be watching that one a lot more closely. like I'm listening to all of the true crime stuff that's going on. You and I have covered recently like a lot of stuff related to judges. We've been looking at things related to a variety of people um that were going on trial for really old crimes, like smaller trials and stuff. and i am I am covering the true crime news, but I do have to say that for some reason I keep coming back to Rex Huerman because I'm so fascinated by him. And I'm serious when I say this guy has had an effect on behavioral science for the next 50 years with how this case is unfolding.
01:54:43
Speaker
and Right. And I will go ahead and say we're going to have a sad sack of Suffolk County episode every single time that he has a new indictment. Yeah. Yeah. Especially as information is revealed in subsequent indictments. I have a feeling if we see Valerie Max indictment or anyone else that we haven't thought of yet, that we'll see a little bit of more information. And I absolutely will be. um I will be following up on that because I ah you know I get behind a lot of cases where I feel like someone has been done wrong, and I get very, very, very like loud and want to work on those cases and do really deep dives and request lots of information, whether it's a victim that like just doesn't have justice yet or a person who's accused of something that I don't believe they did. But I'll tell you, I believe he did this.
01:55:39
Speaker
And not only do I believe he did this, I believe that these victims that are listed so far, these six, seven people, are going to get justice. And I am going to be there to shout about it and to make fun of him and to talk about the ways in which i he goes down. And
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01:55:56
Speaker
um i I hope that he has a very difficult time in prison. And I hope that the state comes at him there in Suffolk County in a way that just puts him under the prison. Thank you so much for listening today. We'll see you next time.
01:56:12
Speaker
um and
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are are
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oh
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02:02:45
Speaker
It's so easy. It's now super easy. You can record a podcast with Zencaster. You can log in using your browser and you start recording a high quality podcast right away. You can record studio quality sound and up to 4K video with your guest. You get to feel a sense of Zen knowing that Zencaster's multi-layered backups ensure you will always have your recordings in the highest quality. even if the connection is unstable. You sound your best. I mean, if you've ever worried about what you sound like, Zincaster's post-production process makes you sound buttery smooth. It automatically removes those ums and ahs in your recordings. It removes those awkward pauses and conversation too. You can set the right podcast loudness and levels while reducing background noise with a click of a button. That's how you don't hear my dogs every ah second of every episode.
02:03:38
Speaker
ZenCaster is all in one. If you've thought about podcasting before and realized that you need a lot of different tools and services, those days are now over. With ZenCaster's all in one podcasting platform, you can create your podcast all in one place. and you can distribute to Spotify, Apple, and other major major destinations. Just go to zencaster.com slash pricing and use my code TRUECRIMEXS. And you're going to get 30% off your first month of any ZNCaster paid plan. You can also check out the other plans they have available. I want you to have the same easy experiences that I do for all my podcasting and content needs. So zencaster.com slash pricing.
02:04:23
Speaker
The offer code is truecrimexs, and it's time for you to share your story today.
02:04:35
Speaker
ah We are also adding New Era as a sponsor for the show. New Era Cap is a headwear and apparel brand founded in 1920 in Buffalo, New York. Now, I actually have some experience with New York Caps. My dad and I have been through multiple iterations of baseball caps through the years. We collect different styles, different eras, and then my teenager has started his own cap collection and has several new eras as the centerpieces. Our favorite teams may not be the same, but our outfits are all topped with the same new era ball caps. We love the quality and the ability to wear what the players are wearing, not to mention new era is the leading headwear manufacturer with quality licensed products. You can support your favorite college or pro team in style from
02:05:23
Speaker
The official headwear provider for the MLB, NFL, and NBA, you can get a stylus accessory for your everyday ensemble and support True Crime XS. Just shop the official headwear and get 15% off when you go to NewEraCap.com. That's N-E-W-E-R-A-C-A-P dot.com slash True Crime XS. You can also use the code TRUECRIMEXS at checkout. That's it. That's all you have to do. And that's 15% off your order using the promo code TRUECRIMEXS.