Transcript
@NoConfForOldMen: Welcome folks to another special off season edition, episode number 83 of the No Conference f for Old Men podcast today. And thrilled guys have a very special guest in University of Houston men's basketball head coach in waiting in front of the podcast, Kellen Sampson joining us for a bit of Q and A. Since Kellen was on the podcast just last off season, and we want to be sensitive with this time, I'm not going to go through coaches bio again, but needless to say, he's both the present and future of Cougars men's basketball that has led us to our current elite Heights. Welcome the podcast, Kellen. And thanks so much for taking the time out from your busy schedule to join us once again.
Kellen Sampson: I appreciate you guys. It's always good to talk. hoops you know and in in football, they call July talking season. how So it's good to throw a little round ball in there. And believe me, when you're talking about my resume, you can get through my playing resume really quick.
Kellen Sampson: I've been fortunate enough that that I've been able to maybe get it find a few players better than me that allow us to win maybe some games. But my my playing career resume goes real quick.
@NoConfForOldMen: Well, fortunately, we've got you as head coach and waiting, and that's that's the important piece that we care about.
Kellen Sampson: I
@NoConfForOldMen: So we're grateful that you're part of the program and everything you and your family do.
Kellen Sampson: appreciate it.
@NoConfForOldMen: So thanks so much.
Kellen Sampson: always was Always good to have you guys.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
.0Bill Walker: you know it's It's funny. Steve refers to me as you're he's the analytics guy. Tom's the the coach. And I'm referred to as the player. i can I can not only guarantee you, but I would bet you any amount of money that that talking about my career would be about one one millionth as long as talking about yours.
.0Bill Walker: I could assure you that.
Tom Lidiak: Thank you.
Kellen Sampson: That's right. That's right. they they They say if you if you're if you're the best player in your gym, you need to find a new gym. i don't want to find new
@NoConfForOldMen: yeah
Kellen Sampson: I'll you the best player my gym. That sounds pretty funny.
@NoConfForOldMen: yeah
@NoConfForOldMen: That's great.
.0Bill Walker: What if you're one of the worst?
Kellen Sampson: You need to think that maybe you need to get new hobby.
@NoConfForOldMen: It's tough.
@NoConfForOldMen: Exactly.
.0Bill Walker: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
@NoConfForOldMen: Exactly.
Kellen Sampson: Although I didn't say that. That would be me and golf. So I'm not touching that one.
.0Bill Walker: Yeah, that's why I just talk about basketball now.
Kellen Sampson: There we go. There we go.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay, why don't we get right into it? And coach, really congrats on another stellar season than by any measure. I mean, number two in the Big 12 and another Sweet 16 run, but probably ended a little bit earlier than you expected.
@NoConfForOldMen: But then you head into this offseason, and though you were on the podcast last offseason as well, a lot has changed again in college basketball around player eli eligibility and n NIL.
Tom Lidiak: Thank you.
@NoConfForOldMen: You know, how do these continued shifts impact how you go into an off season and assemble a team and and retain players nowadays?
Kellen Sampson: It is, sometimes it's like lot landing a plane in the fog.
Kellen Sampson: that And then you got to trust your instruments, but but you got to trust your instincts in a lot of ways that you're you're're you're navigating things based off of.
Kellen Sampson: And I think we're we're blessed in that we've we've got a really strong identity. We've got a strong culture. in a very uncertain time, we we we we do have some constants and some certainties that we've created about about yeah how how we want to peel our orange.
Kellen Sampson: And I think continuing to to lean all the way into to who we are You know, we've we found maybe a little light in in in the darkness here. But, you know, it's we're at a period in college basketball where it's it's never easy it's never been easier to get good players.
Kellen Sampson: It's just never been harder to keep them.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, I'll bet. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And, you know, we're we're we're in a spot where you can get good overnight,
.0Bill Walker: Right.
Kellen Sampson: it's harder to stay good over a longer period of time. and And it's almost impossible if you don't know who you are and and where are you what what what what are you willing to put your feet in concrete about.
Kellen Sampson: And I think what we're finding more and more is that in in in uncertain times, the people you want to be around are going to gravitate and are and are going to run to stability.
Kellen Sampson: And it' it's a huge bonus on us to stay true to who we are.
@NoConfForOldMen: Mm-hmm.
Kellen Sampson: the but's Let's that let's it's not rationalize or or make excuses for who we are. At the same time, being completely willing to evolve on a moment's notice and and continue to keep our ship moving forward.
.0Bill Walker: Nice. Well, let me ask you let me ask you about something that lauren your sister said that, that, uh, when, when we interviewed her about a week ago, she said that, uh, even with everything that she has to do, that she basically eats, sleeps and breathes.
.0Bill Walker: And and those are the, the three most prominent letters in, in college sports right now, NIL, uh, and revenue sharing.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
.0Bill Walker: And, know, the dollars continue to rise, uh, every year, you know, the, the, the, the paradigm shifts.
Kellen Sampson: Thank you.
.0Bill Walker: And i guess we're just interested in getting your, your input on, you know, how everything's basically how everything's going, you know, how, how you guys are adjusting to the paradigm shifts and, uh, and,
.0Bill Walker: Yeah, we we know that you're you're obviously heavily involved in in all of that, especially when it comes to recruiting and and keeping the players. And so I'll just shut up and let you talk.
Kellen Sampson: No, all good, man. I think, again, you just gotta be rooted in in in the right stuff and and know who you are as a program, because if not, you can get taken on a ride in this climate and and end up, you know, things can can can get away from you in a hurry.
Kellen Sampson: If you're not able to make hard hard decisions, based off of of of of a constant.
Kellen Sampson: And I think that there there are there are times that and I don't have to guess, I'm right, i'm right I know I'm right. And then there are certainly some times where making I'm making the best decision based off the information I've got in front of me. yeah and And that gets tricky and that gets a little scary at times.
Kellen Sampson: help one thing about One thing I've learned about NIL in this life, nobody has figured out.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: you And so wow wow some have while some schools have figured out how to generate larger pockets or more money, but but that doesn't mean that they've got it figured out.
Kellen Sampson: It just means that in in this in that particular moment or in that particular time, we're flush. but But again, and so we're we're no different than a lot of schools in that we're consistently continually trying to find the best path forward for for our institution and for our school.
Kellen Sampson: We're always constantly trying to mine and and and farm out new revenue streams, new opportunities. yeah I think that that you know the if we can how quickly we can get to the point that NCAA rules are upheld in the judicial system would would aid all of us that have a vested interest in collegiate athletics.
Kellen Sampson: But the good news is, is that we're all subject to it. There's no there's nobody that has an an advantage or a disadvantage, you know, right now as it as it relates to to to the the the playing rules. were We're all simply in an and an absolute warfare to to try to generate as much revenue as we possibly can and and and continue to to keep our trajectory with our programs.
@NoConfForOldMen: and you know if if you turn that question on from a fan perspective so fans that would want to contribute and help in any way possible. What's the best way to do that? Right? I mean, our our perspective is that things have shifted where maybe, you know, that type of funding is more important than building facilities and things like that. But, you know, for those that don't have small businesses and things like that, how can they get engaged and help help with contributing to the basketball program?
Kellen Sampson: Yeah, I think that there's, there's there's it and I think just like any good coach, is you you want to create multiple pathways to victory.
.0Bill Walker: Thank
Kellen Sampson: if you're If you're coaching a team and you only have a couple different ways that you could win, your margins are really thin.
@NoConfForOldMen: right.
Kellen Sampson: think in this arms race that we're in, or whether it's like Austin Elrod, Troy Randall, and and link and Landon Gosling's group with Linkin Cougs, or it's our athletics department the University of Houston, Alvin Franklin, Eddie Nunez, and and Dave Williams.
Kellen Sampson: we've We've created a lot of buckets that allow... that have improved our catch radius for all of Cougar fans. Yes, we need NIL at the, it's the like like a farmer needs rain.
Kellen Sampson: and Our athletics department also still needs some contributions and still needs a healthy amount of of of donors and new donors and and and and an active ability to to raise money. and So, help.
Kellen Sampson: There are ways to participate in NIL at an entry level through Lincoln Cougs and they're always in a continual and perpetual motion at trying to make that as as as fan friendly and as user friendly for for for everyone. from They offer a number of services from, Lincoln Cougs has developed a travel website.
Kellen Sampson: And if you're coming to watch us apply, you can book your travel through a travel travel service that through Linkin Cooks, and we get a piece of that.
@NoConfForOldMen: Oh, interesting. OK. Did I know?
Kellen Sampson: going buy memorabilia or you're going to buy paraphernalia if you're going to buy, you know, have an opportunity to buy it through Lincoln Cooks. there's There's a number of wonderful things to that, that you you know, you can support us with through their broad range. i They've done an awesome job at at creating a number of buckets to improve you know their catch radius. And then, know,
Kellen Sampson: We still benefit greatly from contributions to Cougar Pride. I think that's one of the things that's lost in this whole sauce is, is, uh, we very much need a large, active, loud, participating amount of, of Cougar Nation, yeah you know, keeping Cougar Pride in a place where, where they're able to, uh, keep facilitating our needs and, and things of that nature.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay.
Kellen Sampson: So, uh, you know Landon and Austin and those guys, that they they're doing a terrific job at getting out a lot of their services that they have created.
Kellen Sampson: yeah They took over our basketball camps this summer. and we had more We had more kids than we've ever had before participate in University of Houston men's basketball basketball camps.
.0Bill Walker: Thank
Kellen Sampson: and And that was an awesome new avenue that we've created. So I think this this current time we're in it's the the more creative and the more outside the box thinking you you can do, you you're going to get you know rewarded kind of with those lines of of thought.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay.
Kellen Sampson: and If you don't want to spend the band the mental bandwidth on on being outside the box and creative, Cougar Pride absolutely will take your money.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay, no, that's awesome. Thanks for providing that perspective. And, you know, when we look at men's basketball, right at the University of Houston, obviously it continues to be a family affair for the Sampson's with all of you intimately involved in all aspects of the program. And we're lucky that that's the case, quite honestly. it, everything that goes into building this program has become even more extensive and exhaustive, right. it is represented by our, our preceding questions around NIL, uh, and at all the other new things that are coming down. Has it become more difficult to kind of separate for you or compartmentalize work from family life at this point? mean, is it just, is there enough time in the day, quite honestly? Right.
Kellen Sampson: Yeah, we were really, my sister and I were super fortunate growing up that,
Kellen Sampson: our our our our, you know, my dad's profession was our hobby.
@NoConfForOldMen: Hmm.
Kellen Sampson: It's what we wanted to do. It's what we ran to do. It it was, you know, we were so fortunate that in our most transformative years, our most years which you really, really remember, going be honest, I don't remember much of Washington State.
@NoConfForOldMen: Uh,
Kellen Sampson: You know, I was eight years old when we left.
@NoConfForOldMen: okay.
Kellen Sampson: The last team he had there, they went to the NCAA tournament.
@NoConfForOldMen: Was really good. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And so that that, you know, and so I don't remember, you know, he speaks about they lost 17 consecutive games at one time and in some of these early struggles.
Kellen Sampson: I don't remember that. I'm going to be honest. It was there, obviously. I've seen the pictures and heard stories, you know, but I –
@NoConfForOldMen: yeah
Tom Lidiak: Mm-hmm.
Kellen Sampson: We were really fortunate in that when when when our real core memories and and and and our most impressionable moments was when, you know, our dad had it going in oklama at Oklahoma, and we got totally swept up in the magic of college basketball.
Kellen Sampson: And we couldn't, both of us couldn't get enough of it.
@NoConfForOldMen: yeah
Kellen Sampson: And it's it's easy to to to become inebriated with the success that they were having and in and everything. so, and and so Work, family, leisure, man, it's all one.
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
Kellen Sampson: It's always. And so 30 years ago, there were industry challenges and we rode the wave of that and, and and you know, learned about it and heard about it and and and worked through it.
Kellen Sampson: 30 years later, there there there are new industry challenges.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. Yeah. yeah
Kellen Sampson: We're riding away with it and we're learning and growing and getting better every day. But there's there's never, there's never a time of peace
.0Bill Walker: you
Kellen Sampson: in college athletics.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: there's there's's There's always a war being fought.
@NoConfForOldMen: Uh, but
Kellen Sampson: It just so happens that right now it's NIL and maybe it's a, it's it's a longer war than some other challenges.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: But if you, The reality of it is is is in this in this life that we're all trying to live, oh everything that we want on the other side of competition.
Kellen Sampson: and and and And when you're in a competition, you're in a war. And so if it wasn't NIO, it'd be something else. And if it wasn't that something else, it would be a third. So know you you lace them up tight.
Kellen Sampson: put the eye black underneath your eyes and and and you find a way to to to go to battle every single day with whatever walks through the door.
@NoConfForOldMen: Nice. I love that mentality. So moving on to the team, right? If we look at this past sweet 16 team, it had three five-star recruits on it with two starting and playing really significant minutes and in roles for the team.
@NoConfForOldMen: Probably the youngest team that we've seen the past few years.
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
@NoConfForOldMen: And it showed at times on the defensive side, especially, right?
Kellen Sampson: Sure.
@NoConfForOldMen: you know, as we reflect back on it, probably a pretty tough ass and, you know, your defensive schemes require a level of intensity, physicality, and quite honestly, some familiarity with the, uh, the planning, right?
Kellen Sampson: Sure.
@NoConfForOldMen: So to speak that it's difficult to be reliant on so many true freshmen. But if we fast forward to this upcoming season and we look at what you and the the staff have assembled for this next team, it feels a lot more familiar to us as fans where it's an older team, a bit of grit, maybe some kids that were overlooked early on that have come up through the ranks at at other other schools.
@NoConfForOldMen: Now, Are we making too much out of this or or was this a purposeful move on the on the staff's part and your part?
Kellen Sampson: I thought we were at an interesting time as a program a little bit. that you know When the 25-year ended, it was really the end of a two-year run with a really good core nucleus of guys.
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
Kellen Sampson: yo If you think about the from 24 to 25, we transitioned into the Big
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: We went on a foreign trip with that with that group of guys. And from 24 to 25, you know, the only thing we did was we just flipped Jamal for Milo's, you know, Milo's for Jamal, however that works.
Kellen Sampson: and and and
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
Tom Lidiak: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And we just kind of stayed on stayed on the horse and and we rode it all the way to Monday night. And there was quite a bit, we but we knew there would be quite a bit of turnover after 25.
Kellen Sampson: College basketball was interesting this past season in that college basketball lost two classes in one year because we lost all the COVID kids.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And then you lost all the four-year kids. So think about it. College basketball was a five-class sport, and we lost 40% of it.
Kellen Sampson: And and so so these new guys that were ushering through the door, it was it was almost a perfect storm of that A, the 25 class was special across the landscape. But B, there was there was a lot of runway for them to walk into to to our game and an impact early.
Kellen Sampson: And I think everybody saw the the youth movement that that existed across college basketball.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: oh And it was fun and magical and special. And we were a part of it in in an awesome way. And I think we learned that that there are certain things that, that for us to be what we want to be,
Kellen Sampson: oh we we need to to to to look a certain way. And I think we went about things, but I tell you, in hindsight, we'd done the same thing.
Kellen Sampson: know
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. I mean, those are great tablets.
Kellen Sampson: me and We didn't miss. there
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Tom Lidiak: Thank you.
.0Bill Walker: yeah how Yeah, how could you not?
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And i was I was telling somebody the other day, They were left, right, up there, I just, I'm going be honest with you, we were the number a four ranked defense in the country last year.
Kellen Sampson: And that was supposed to be a down year.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: What's probably not talked about enough is that we weren't quite as good on offense. I thought our defense gave us every opportunity to, we held, even all the way the last game, we held Illinois their season low in points.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
Kellen Sampson: We defended well enough to win. We weren't quite the rebounding team that we've been. And I thought that had a direct effect on our offense, maybe more so than it did our defense and that we weren't quite, we didn't like, like, like I said, you always want to, you know, the best teams have multiple avenues and pathways that they can get to the finish line.
Kellen Sampson: And, you know you're always trying to increase your, I tell you, increase your margins, uh, we couldn't beat the good We couldn't beat the best teams last year on the glass.
Kellen Sampson: We at best could could draw even. But when we got to, i think, I made a presentation the other day. I think we were one in six last year against the Sweet 16.
.0Bill Walker: Right.
Kellen Sampson: And the best thing that last year's team did is that we lost seven times. And only five of them Or excuse me, we we were, yeah, we we we only lost to two non-Sweet 16 teams.
@NoConfForOldMen: Wow.
Kellen Sampson: A healthy Texas Tech, which if Dobbin doesn't get hurt, they got a pretty decent shot.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. They're definitely there. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And we lost to Allen Fieldhouse,
Kellen Sampson: which is always unexplainable loss.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yes.
Kellen Sampson: What last year's team couldn't do was climb the ladder and go and go beat the best teams in college basketball. And I thought that the reason maybe we didn't we we couldn't do that was we we didn't have enough ways to beat you. We had a number of ways to be in the fight.
Kellen Sampson: But when it came down to it, we didn't have enough ways to just flat out go beat you. and And probably the thing that we addressed as much as anything is our ability to beat you on the back the list, which has been a hallmark of who we are for a long time.
.0Bill Walker: Nice.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, absolutely. Nice.
Kellen Sampson: Thought we had it covered before last year, some and that didn't didn't have it covered to the point that we needed. I thought we did a good job of trying to remedy that this offseason.
.0Bill Walker: Well, a little bit about this team. Obviously, a lot of new players. Thomas, Hadnott, Alozi, East, Gillespie, Dion, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, and others who who I imagine will be redshirting.
.0Bill Walker: And I guess you could even say, you know, Jackson because he redshirted last year.
Kellen Sampson: Sure.
.0Bill Walker: But, you know, but in terms of the ones that I mentioned, it's a lot of recruiting. You know, what caused you to focus on the group that came in and, know, how challenging was it to land such a deep and and extremely strong class?
.0Bill Walker: and And just from, you practices so far, who of the new players have – have stood out. up Great to hear you say that all of them have, but if are there any any that have particularly stood out so far?
Kellen Sampson: day to day with who stood out.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. Yep.
.0Bill Walker: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: But that, that, uh, no, it, you know, it's been a, it's been a, a terrific group to work with so far. And, uh, you know, we, we lost, obviously we lost some, some noteworthy guys, you to the draft or, or to graduation, but, you know, we also lost some, some guys that had,
.0Bill Walker: Great.
Kellen Sampson: been with us a long time. Seth Lott had been with us a long time. Jacob McFarland had been with us a long time. yeah Isaiah Harwell, maybe not quite as much, but but so it's been, as I look at in our front court, you know we've are we we only have Joe returning.
@NoConfForOldMen: True.
Kellen Sampson: So it's been, you know lot of us, it's been really fun to to to teach again. You know, when you've got guys that are three, four, five years in the program, you're you're not necessarily teaching as much as you're keeping them sharp and using them as an example for the young guys.
.0Bill Walker: Thank
Kellen Sampson: And it's been so it's been so awesome to finally have an offseason with JoJo. And what's been a real thrill is to hear him say, we were in, even today in our position group stuff, it was, I almost got chills today during our workouts because Joe said things Reek and Braden that I heard Jaywon say to him.
.0Bill Walker: Nice.
Tom Lidiak: You
@NoConfForOldMen: Nice. Yep.
Kellen Sampson: and And to see that that that torch being passed means that we're we're we're heading the right direction. and we We talk about last year's summer, and Jacob McFarland couldn't go because of some injuries.
Kellen Sampson: Khalifa Sacco couldn't go because you have of some injuries. Jojo Tugler couldn't go. because of some injuries. And so we we really only had two post guys in the and in the mix every day last year, Chris and Sed.
Kellen Sampson: And so knock on wood, what's been nice is that we've we've we've kind of been able to have a lot more participants every day and taking big steps forward and and learning in big chunks has really helped. you some ways I was able to move faster last year with Chris because he got every rep, but then almost was behind because Khalifa got no reps.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: and And so it was a little bit of and of a of touching, you know, grinding gears at times last year. And so the fact that all of the all of our frontline guys have been available has has allowed all those new guys to progress at a really great rate.
.0Bill Walker: right.
Kellen Sampson: They're all competitive. They're all naturally physical. They look for reasons to hit you in a good way.
@NoConfForOldMen: Nice.
Kellen Sampson: You can tell that Erafon is the youngest of the group and and he's got maybe the he's the largest of the group.
Tom Lidiak: Thank you.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. yeah
Kellen Sampson: But he also has the most maybe freshman moments that he's supposed to. Whereas you can tell that, you know, DeRico Gillespie came from a super high level, well coached, well ran program at Kent State.
Kellen Sampson: And he was a part of a real program. And so so so the summer grind isn't new to him. And so he's actually really kind of starting to hit us a different gear as we've gone from summer one to summer two and that he's you he's getting into better shape.
Kellen Sampson: And, you know, but the the volume, and the intensity and the totality of the work isn't isn't too much for him. And then, you know, cross training Braden East.
Kellen Sampson: He's playing some four and some fives along with Del Rico.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay.
Kellen Sampson: but And so Braden's a little younger that he's only 20. And so it's been, know, his progress is is is steady and it's growing, but but he's in a super, super awesome situation. He gets learn from Rick and JoJo every day.
Kellen Sampson: And, you know, when Braden gets where he's going, I think he's going to raise a lot of eyebrows for a lot of people just like Aerofame will.
.0Bill Walker: Right.
Kellen Sampson: You know, DJ Thomas was so, you know, we we we've known him for so long because we recruited him.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: crazy. Like starting from the time he was 15.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: So his familiarity with us has been obvious and evident. And, you know, what's so cool about DJ is he, well, he's had a lot of individual success,
Kellen Sampson: in college, he he hasn't tasted the NCAA tournament. And there was a there's there's an urgency about him every day that that he's, you know, he's he's he's starving to get there. He's starving to to to to be a part of a of a team that can they that can, you know, that's got a lot of horse underneath the whip.
Kellen Sampson: And he's, he's sort you know, he's a guy that battled has battled some injuries. And so I think his humility and his appreciation for being able to to go at it every day has been incredible for that guards group as far as our new guys. But it's been so awesome to see Mercy Miller starting to find his leadership voice.
Kellen Sampson: A guy who's, who was you know, a walking embodiment of of emotion and and enthusiasm and is now in a place where he gets to to have his ver voice heard a bit more, as Chase McCarty.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And so to see those guys maturing and realizing that their voice carries now is is has been incredible to see, but also all incredibly humbling that that we built something that that guys know when it's their turn.
.0Bill Walker: Got it. Well, I think I may have done a, uh, a poor job of leading into these next two questions because I think I kind of led you down the path of answering both of them. but But I'll ask this one and then Steve's up next nonetheless. yeah The last time we we spoke, last time you were on the podcast, you were your primary focus was on the on the fours and the fives.
.0Bill Walker: And, you know, Lauren, when we spoke with her, we asked her about the the new kids coming in. and And she talked a lot about Arafan's advanced offensive skills and the fact he's got you know just incredibly soft hands and is really good with the ball around the basket. And then you have yeah East's desire to be part of the U of H program. And, you know, that had been the case for a while. obviously Gillespie just being a perfect U of H fit, being just a double-double machine, and and as you mentioned, coming from a great program at Kent State. And then, of course, and you alluded this as well, JoJo's a healthy summer this year, his first healthy summer, being able to you know work on his offense and and it just his entire game.
.0Bill Walker: yeah how How positive do you feel to be working with so much depth in the front court. And, you know, can you maybe expound upon what what Lauren told us about Arafan?
Kellen Sampson: Yeah, I think that it's good quality depth. That's what's exciting and important. And I'm not going to They've been available.
@NoConfForOldMen: I'll see.
Kellen Sampson: And I don't know how because it's it's absolute sumo wrestling in there.
@NoConfForOldMen: I love it. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: has
.0Bill Walker: That's great.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: there's a lot of It's been a lot of large human beings banging into me.
Kellen Sampson: We've had some dust-ups and in some emotional moments. But i what what I have enjoyed is they're they're just now getting to the point where they see the value in each other and that they're making each other better.
Kellen Sampson: And we've had such spirited competitions of you know i've putting up the the the old guy Jojo with, with Arafan against Braden and reek and a lot of two on two and a lot of those sorts of things.
Kellen Sampson: And they're now competitive and territorial about the, no, those are the teams and they keep in in organically they're, they're keeping track of what the record is and in who's doing what.
.0Bill Walker: you.
Kellen Sampson: And, know, they don't want to switch teams, you know.
.0Bill Walker: you.
Kellen Sampson: And so it's been it's been cool to watch their competitiveness bring out the best in each other over the duration of of the summer.
@NoConfForOldMen: Interesting. and
Kellen Sampson: You know, one thing about him specifically, his is his self-confidence and his self-esteem
Kellen Sampson: is magical. know, you gravitate to a guy who, you
.0Bill Walker: you
Kellen Sampson: know, kind of didn't have a lot of insecurities necessarily about about his game. You know, he carries himself the way good players, you expect good players to carry themselves.
Kellen Sampson: Yeah. in workout or in competition adversity has no bearing on his next play.
Kellen Sampson: And that's the mark of of all the good ones is they're able to flush bad moments and and and appreciate the next opportunity.
.0Bill Walker: Uh.
Kellen Sampson: What I think Cougar fans are gonna be so excited about this is a emotion and his passion. And, you know, there is nothing like seeing Erafine go unbridled with his just raw energy when he does something.
Kellen Sampson: mean, you can't help but giggle sometimes because his reactions are so authentic and genuine.
@NoConfForOldMen: No. Yeah.
Tom Lidiak: Mm-hmm.
@NoConfForOldMen: Mm-hmm.
.0Bill Walker: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And he he lives for competition. sometimes You know, sometimes can catch him yawning or kind of, if if I get too far down like a a teaching day or an install day and trying to get really, you know, if I'm trying to help somebody else with a technique or something, got to be quick because I'm going to lose a big fellow.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay.
.0Bill Walker: so
Kellen Sampson: The second you put a winner and a loser is involved, everyone wants to win.
.0Bill Walker: Nice.
@NoConfForOldMen: okay
Kellen Sampson: And, you know, he his English is getting better and his communication is getting better.
@NoConfForOldMen: guys
Kellen Sampson: And i think all of us are are learning to hear him better. You know, as more you're around somebody, you you can, your your ear gets better at at picking up things.
Kellen Sampson: But what has always been loud is his passion for winning. And that has certainly stirred the pot.
@NoConfForOldMen: guys.
.0Bill Walker: Good.
Kellen Sampson: quite a bit and and gotten under the skin of some of our guys in the best of ways.
Tom Lidiak: Thank you.
@NoConfForOldMen: Uh-huh.
Kellen Sampson: And it's been a healthy trash talking kind of summer. It's been a lot of, there's been a lot of emotion this summer and that's, that's the markings of a, of, of a really good summer.
@NoConfForOldMen: Wow. No, that's that's incredible. I mean, you've already highlighted or or mentioned, you know, Chase, Mercy, and of course my favorite Coog JoJo, and we're all expecting big things right from them. But of the remaining kind of returning kids and things like that, what have you seen this summer and and who who do you expect to step up and kind of get to that next level in contributing to success?
Kellen Sampson: You know, it's interesting. It's like, you know, Bryce and Cordell been bitten by the injury bug, you know, in their basketball journeys more than anybody deserves.
@NoConfForOldMen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kellen Sampson: And both of those guys yeah had had had injury histories in high school. Bryce was able to put together pretty clean year.
Kellen Sampson: But Cordell's injury woes have followed him to college at times. And it's really unfair because it just it just stalls growth and development when they're not available.
Kellen Sampson: And it's certainly not his fault.
.0Bill Walker: Thank
Kellen Sampson: a lot of times, but
Kellen Sampson: Cordell's a kid that did maybe by the industry of standards, probably shouldn't be here. Maybe it just about any other program across the country, maybe he wouldn't be here.
@NoConfForOldMen: Nice.
Kellen Sampson: But we've always i think we've always valued him and he certainly has valued us. And so I think if that kid can catch some some some breaks with some injuries, he's he's earned the right to put to to have a cougar moment.
Kellen Sampson: and And I think that's that's, you know, his loyalty. he's go He's all set to graduate in December with his Cougar degree. And and he's earned a ride. He certainly has paid his dues. You know, Coug fans haven't seen this. We've seen a lot of them.
Kellen Sampson: But this is year four for him.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And he's doubled down. me He was in the same recruiting class with JoJo Tuggler. And they're the best of friends and they're roommates. and And I think Joe's, his relationship with JoJo is a big reason why he's still here as well.
Kellen Sampson: But, but yeah delli's as as you know, everybody knows about how competitive he is and the way he's pushed guys. And he's he's made a lot of his teammates a lot of money.
Kellen Sampson: because he's helped get them better hi him and and and and it it's high time that his has a cougar moment.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay. Nice. Yep.
Kellen Sampson: Bryce is a competitive player. energetic dude that he he just keeps getting as as his as he's able to put together two month blocks of health he just keeps getting better and better i mean it's unfortunate he lost two years of high school to injuries and so we're we've been in a uh an absolute sprint to try to uh get him caught up but he's he's on an uptick as the summer's gone on about
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: you know, and I think he's, he's starting to bite down on what his role is and what his pathway is to, to, to the floor and and being meaningful. So, you know, I, I think he's, he's going to have more than a couple of moments.
Kellen Sampson: I think, and and in some ways, i think his year will well be similar to chase.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay. Uh-huh.
Kellen Sampson: that You know, early in the non-con last year, it was hard for chasing and, yeah He had a lot of rust to bang through off of his sit out year. And he and Ramon had had a really good battle as to who would kind of be able to seize those energy minutes.
.0Bill Walker: Thank
Kellen Sampson: And eventually, as time wore on, it it became Chase. and And I think Bryce will do something similar, that he is his year is just going to be on an upward trajectory yeah know all all all year. you know he's He's too talented and too competitive to not find a way at some point. in When it's his time, Akinah Lozzi is a good player.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And there's a reason we recruited him since he was a sophomore in high school as well.
Kellen Sampson: Talented, tough, competitive. you know He walks through the door in a similar mold to where Jamal Shedd was his freshman year.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: Ikenna's maybe a little better shooter, score. Jamal was a little further along as a point guard at at the same time, but but they both had similar bodies, similar competitiveness, and and hopefully Ikenna is able to to improve in the chunks that Jamal did his freshman year.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, very much.
Kellen Sampson: A guy like DJ Thomas is is is an absolute savior for a guy like Ikenna because DJ's a point guard savant.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And the opportunity to to kind of be around DJ all year is going really fast track I can and when it's time. Thank us, everybody.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, yeah, it's an awesome breakdown of the kids and we're looking forward to it. So we we asked you last off season as well. And you had mentioned previously about having a mindset of continuous improvement in learning from previous seasons. And so with that in mind, you know, what, what tweaks are you considering to put in place that fans should be on the lookout for this upcoming season with this team?
Kellen Sampson: college basketball got bigger all of a sudden.
@NoConfForOldMen: You did. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And I think that what what what what is loud, not that size isn't all of a sudden a novel deal, size matters.
Kellen Sampson: But to dominate college basketball, you got to dominate the the circle. You know, and whereas in the NBA, they've got almost preset slot slot corner corner spacing.
Kellen Sampson: The best teams have terrible stuff compared to what the NBA has.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And the biggest reason for it, i we don't have defensive three seconds. So if the defense is allowed to be there, you better, you you have to find a way to hold that man accountable.
Kellen Sampson: If not, you're gonna be dealing with a goalie all night. And so your ability to manipulate the charge circle is a big part of, you when we we talk about it some, but dominating the charge circle, he the team that dominates the charge circle is the one that's gonna find the finish line quickest.
Kellen Sampson: And I didn't think we did a good job of that last year. We had a little, yeah we it was our best spacing team.
Kellen Sampson: But that doesn't always win in college basketball. i don't know if guys, I mean, it is a car crash watching in Michigan. As good as they were, it was a car crash at the rim.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: I don't even hear it. Morrow is huge.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: Morris Johnson huge.
@NoConfForOldMen: He was blocking everything. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: Axel Lindenborg was massive. Those guys had to go somewhere. you know, Arizona last year, we we got a front row seat to, you know, and their spacing wasn't terrific at the rim, but you know, college basketball is a game that's, you know, that's still won at the front of the rim.
Kellen Sampson: And I think, I think that we, we've put together a team that's going a lot better there. And that's not new for us. We, we,
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, exactly. that That kind of brings us back to kind of the previous two teams.
Kellen Sampson: So we got caught last year with a team that was a bit more space and pace oriented. And and that was fine. We we did good. But I think we're going to be a little more traditional, little more of a traditional Cougar team.
@NoConfForOldMen: Nice.
Tom Lidiak: kind sounds like the quote that's That kind of sounds like the question I wanted to ask Coach about that.
.0Bill Walker: All right.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Tom Lidiak: the qui The question I had was, I wanted to ask you, was you know trends in college basketball. And I thought you know five, seven years ago, it was all about spacing the floor, creating double gaps, driving, kicking.
Kellen Sampson: Mm-hmm.
Tom Lidiak: then And then you come back to the last two national championships, Florida and Michigan, seemed like, you know, traditionally you never saw much high low, you know, five or seven years ago. And I'll see, you know, all sudden you're seeing teams, you know, do a little high low action.
Tom Lidiak: The question I had coaches, you know, is college basketball goes through trends. Now is that analytical driven, data driven? Is it the way the game's officiated?
Tom Lidiak: Because it seems, it seems like old school basketball last couple of years is back.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: Yeah, it's amazing how cyclical.
Tom Lidiak: Uh,
Tom Lidiak: yeah
@NoConfForOldMen: two
Tom Lidiak: That's what i was going to say. I mean, some people, you know, I'm a high school basketball coach. If you ran any kind of high low, they would say, man, he's an old fogey, you know. come on get with Come on, get with the times.
Tom Lidiak: You know, you got to space the floor and, you know, slice and dice and and all this.
Kellen Sampson: Oh, yeah.
Tom Lidiak: So I just want to hear you i just wanted to hear your thoughts on on how the game has trended past couple of years.
Kellen Sampson: Sure.
Kellen Sampson: Well, I think one of the things is college basketball is getting older.
Kellen Sampson: And you're you're getting guys that are with that are yeah the the best players and highest volume of good players in college basketball are bigger, or older, or stronger, physical guys. Whereas, know, the Kentucky team of 2012,
Kellen Sampson: with all those younger guys, the 2015 Duke team had a bunch of younger guys. You You know, it's, you're just dealing with a bit more of an an experienced body.
Kellen Sampson: And that that lending itself to playing to your strengths, which is your brute strength in a lot of instances. And, you know, but but I also think that,
Kellen Sampson: it's been newer teams that have found a way to compete in a slice and dice era. know Michigan was not built in this way during the slice.
Kellen Sampson: And and so how how can they combat what they're what what the best teams were? Well, now we've got to get a little bit more traditional. We've got to get a little bigger.
@NoConfForOldMen: Amen.
Kellen Sampson: we gotta we got if The country is zigging. We've got find a way to zag. You Florida wasn't a national power. And so I think that teams have gone, teams have found found success swimming against the current, and now the current's flowing in their direction.
Kellen Sampson: And so that probably means that the pendulum's getting ready to swing the other way and that, you know, speed's getting ready to maybe be the the trend here in two or three years.
.0Bill Walker: Hmm.
Kellen Sampson: But, you know, I think it's important to, you know you you You obviously want to evolve, and in in certainly being trendy helps. yeah know I think as as as an old Big 12 guy growing up, the guy who killed Big 12 football more than anybody was Mike Leach.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, that's right.
Kellen Sampson: and He forced every Big 12 team, especially as as an Oklahoma guy, but he his only way to compete against Oklahoma and Texas was to eliminate and neutralize defensive tackles.
.0Bill Walker: Thank
Kellen Sampson: and he'd get the ball out before a defensive tackle that he couldn't get at Texas Tech, could could could impact the quarterback. Well, Oklahoma and Texas and some of those traditional powers couldn't get out of the Big 12 anymore.
Kellen Sampson: they couldn't They couldn't keep up. Oklahoma State followed. you know, Texas Tech and and other schools, that that man, we're just going to be – we're going to get it out super fast. Well, all of a sudden, don't I'm in Texas in order to win the Big 12, 12, had to eliminate – had to get speed defensive tackles to chase things down. Well, when they got to bowl games, they got boat raced.
Kellen Sampson: they were They were stuck in a quandary. I've got to have a team that's that's built and equipped to win the league if I want to have a chance to compete at the national level.
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
Kellen Sampson: But we got no shot when we get there because we're we we're we're built to play nine games in the in the Big 12.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And in a way, you're in a rat race. And so I say all that to say is in order to be, you you've you've got to stay current, but you also have to find what your your own individual ways that make you different and and and be in the margins that makes it hard to play against.
Kellen Sampson: And so it's awesome to have it all.
.0Bill Walker: Yep.
Tom Lidiak: Yeah, Coach, what would more one more question. Is there a Cougar team in the past that you think this team will remind you of, fans will remind you of?
Tom Lidiak: You know, can you go back and
Kellen Sampson: yeah I thought 2022 were the most, were built the most similar way to them. It was Fabian White, Josh Carlton, but it was Reggie Chaney, Joel Roberts.
@NoConfForOldMen: Nice.
Kellen Sampson: was when We had four good post guys that we could throw it to fight. And going to go back to the show.
@NoConfForOldMen: Wow, that'll be nice. That was actually my favorite Cougar team of the same scenario.
Tom Lidiak: Mm-hmm.
Kellen Sampson: I thought if Sasser stays healthy, that was the best team in the country.
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
Kellen Sampson: I thought we've had
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, yeah.
Kellen Sampson: definitively, we've we've had three teams that I thought could definitely win the national championship. I thought 22, if we stay healthy, we could have won the national championship.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: and We go to an Elite Eight. and We go one for 19 from the three-point line.
.0Bill Walker: Yeah, the bad shooting that against Villanova.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah. Yeah. yeah
Kellen Sampson: If Houston could shoot. Well, I got Sasser in a boot.
@NoConfForOldMen: yeah
.0Bill Walker: Yeah. Yeah.
@NoConfForOldMen: yeah
Kellen Sampson: Yeah, Kai. Yeah. I thought our 2014 fully healthy, de you know, we we could have won national championship.
@NoConfForOldMen: her
Kellen Sampson: I don't know if we were better than Connecticut who won it, but I thought we could have beaten them on the right night.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: And then obviously in 25, I thought we were the best team in the country.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, agreed.
Kellen Sampson: And for...
Kellen Sampson: 39 games in 38 minutes we were.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yep.
Kellen Sampson: We just didn't have a good last two minutes. But I think you know what what aided that team and it's what what I think is going to fuel this team in 22 was Jamal came on at the right time and was ready maybe earlier than than i think a lot of people expected.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, it's fantastic.
Kellen Sampson: And his arrival,
Kellen Sampson: allowed Marcus to find his groove. That allowed Kyler Edwards in the first year, who I think is still one of those underrated guys we've had. It allowed him to find a comfortable role for him.
Kellen Sampson: and And then the bigs were them and and we built the team. I mean, how awesome would it have been to see Tajay Moore in a super six-man role?
.0Bill Walker: Right. Yeah.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: just coming in and absolutely, you know, putting gasoline on everybody.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: and so I thought that team, and again, that was the last time we had a team that was transfer heavy. and, uh, you know, but, but we had, we had the right trigger man and we invested in, and when we believed in Jamal, you know, there was a, uh,
@NoConfForOldMen: That's right.
Kellen Sampson: do you Is Jamal going to be ready? Do you need to go get an older point guard because we were losing Dejan Giroux?
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: But all of us inside the program knew Mal was ready. He just needed water, sunshine, and a runway to grow.
.0Bill Walker: Nice.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yep.
Kellen Sampson: I think we all felt the same way this whole season about Mercy and Chase and even Bryce to an extent that we don't need to –
Kellen Sampson: we don't need to top fill on those guys and stunt their growth. We need to backfill and again, give them a healthy dose of water, sunshine, and and a runway to to to to go be what they need to be.
.0Bill Walker: Well, we'll try not, we're trying not to manipulate your entire evening. So we'll start to kind of wind this down. Uh, what What are your expectations for this upcoming team?
.0Bill Walker: And what I know last year, I can't remember if it was you or if it was Hollis that that mentioned that one of the challenges going into last year could be the perimeter shooting.
@NoConfForOldMen: cam.
.0Bill Walker: What do you see as the maybe the group's biggest challenges heading into the season, at least at this point?
Kellen Sampson: think our expectations is always the same. It's just, you want to get better
.0Bill Walker: Great.
Kellen Sampson: you want to get better every month. You know you you you want to be in this, to be a broken record, but this continual state of improvement. And your year is going to reveal different answers for you.
@NoConfForOldMen: absolutely
Kellen Sampson: yeah We've got this idea of who we're going to be right now. But the truth of it is, is that they're gonna end up telling us who they are as we go. And our ability to to pivot and audible and and and course correct as we go is always the strength of our staff. I think we're so blessed in that, you know, Coach Sampson has done this for so years, but he's he's he's he's stubborn and courageous in the same breath.
Kellen Sampson: is we we went to Vegas in 25, right? The 25 year, and we started four and three.
@NoConfForOldMen: Mm-hmm.
Kellen Sampson: And he was stubborn enough to realize we're close. We're a lot closer than our record. But he was courageous enough to know that we needed we just needed to to just one degree different on our compass was going to
.0Bill Walker: Thank you.
Kellen Sampson: get us where we needed to go. And maybe the biggest thing was, is we all had to recognize two things. Number one, that year we were asking Milo's to run Jamal's offense and we needed to build, needed to build the car for the driver a little better.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kellen Sampson: and in And in doing that, or or at least having that mentality, we needed to quit playing Jaewon like a five and and embrace that he's a four and and and start using him more as a Swiss Army knife and a little bit harder to find. And so once we kind of, once that team revealed what the so corrections need be made, we're always courageous enough to do it.
Kellen Sampson: This team will keep improving every month. They'll they'll they'll tell us where where where this car needs to go.
@NoConfForOldMen: Nice. Looking forward to it.
.0Bill Walker: Got it. Well, Lauren, we'll conclude this with with typically I try to ask the most important question last. Yeah, lauren Lauren talked about just how incredibly close the family is, vacations together, as you alluded to, the yeah the two of you being involved and in in your father's yeah basketball, attending games, camps, everything. yeah she She also mentioned that the everyone in the family at one point not too long ago lived practically next door to each other, and and you and she were constantly at each other's house.
.0Bill Walker: and But she told us that she recently moved further away. and and so the question is, you know, what what did what did you what did you do that that made her leave?
Kellen Sampson: Oh
.0Bill Walker: Yeah.
@NoConfForOldMen: yeah
Kellen Sampson: oh my gosh. You know, sometimes even little brother, you know, we we might be a little older, but little brothers are still annoying.
.0Bill Walker: Hmm. Hmm.
Kellen Sampson: No. Gosh, what a great gosh what what what a great question. No,
Tom Lidiak: Mm-hmm.
Kellen Sampson: she found a good spot and kind of fit who she she was. And, you know, I think I had him I moved as well.
@NoConfForOldMen: okay
Kellen Sampson: moved because of schools.
@NoConfForOldMen: Okay, yeah, that's important, kids.
Kellen Sampson: My kids, yeah. You know, Maisie was, uh, but maisie was
.0Bill Walker: Perfect.
Kellen Sampson: heading into the second grade, and then we knew we had, you know, Kylan right behind him, right behind her. So I ended up moving a little actually closer to where Coach was.
Kellen Sampson: You know, we were using his address for the school, and I finally, I don't need to cheat the system anymore.
@NoConfForOldMen: There you go.
.0Bill Walker: like
Kellen Sampson: that nothing the The elementary school got a new principal.
@NoConfForOldMen: ha
.0Bill Walker: Nice.
Kellen Sampson: So my my hookup kind of left. So it had become legitimate.
@NoConfForOldMen: yeah there you go
Tom Lidiak: Ha ha. Ha ha.
Kellen Sampson: oh And Lauren saw that we were moving into the burbs and i didn't that didn't dive kind of with what what she was thinking.
Kellen Sampson: So, yeah.
Tom Lidiak: Ha ha.
@NoConfForOldMen: There you go. Okay. With that, i think that's all the questions we had. want to be sensitive to coaches' time. Is there anything that you wanted to say to fans before we kind of conclude the interview, Kellan?
Kellen Sampson: Yeah, no, I think that man engagement is never more important. You know, I was reading something here recently that said, as as and we're all probably aware that a realignment's coming again at some point the next five, seven years.
Kellen Sampson: and And maybe sooner.
@NoConfForOldMen: Maybe sooner.
Kellen Sampson: And the more
@NoConfForOldMen: her
Kellen Sampson: Yes, you want to be in big markets and we were in a terrific one, but, but what, what moves decision makers and in a way is, is, is, banning engagement in the popularity of your athletics department amongst your fans.
Kellen Sampson: And so support, support the Cougs.
Kellen Sampson: Watch podcasts, listen, you know,
@NoConfForOldMen: There you go.
Kellen Sampson: Participate in on-message board chats.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: you know
Kellen Sampson: Don't just watch the games. Come to the games. Get your butt in the we' we're all
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: We're all starving for survival. Every every collegelegate every college athletics department is is fighting for so for its survival, whether fans realize it or not.
Kellen Sampson: You know, we we got the the blessing and gift of of that. This university deserves by being able to compete in the Big 12. home Let's stay there.
Kellen Sampson: know when this when this thing spins we're we're proving that we've got the chops we're proving that that uh this this athletic department can can produce programs that can compete for the highest prizes but we all got to do our part and and keep a vested and loud interest in the kooks and and if we do this together truthfully we're on we're unstoppable
@NoConfForOldMen: Nice.
Kellen Sampson: But one is none. we We can't do this alone. And and the more we the more wind we get behind our sails, the more I think everybody's going to love our destination.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah, that's fantastic. That's awesome close, Cullen. And thank you again so much for your time. We really appreciate it.
.0Bill Walker: Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Kellen Sampson: Appreciate you guys.
@NoConfForOldMen: Yeah.
Kellen Sampson: Talk soon. Go Cougs.
@NoConfForOldMen: All right.
Tom Lidiak: Yep.
@NoConfForOldMen: So that's it.
.0Bill Walker: Go Cougs.
@NoConfForOldMen: Go Cougs. That's it for episode 83 the No Conference for Old Men podcast. Hope you all enjoyed it. And again, would really appreciate it if folks would follow, subscribe, or collect our podcast on whatever your platform of choice is. We're also available via Dave Campbell's College Podcast Network as our only basketball-centric podcast. We're at the gocougs.com YouTube page for those that want to see our special interview with Coach Kellan Samson in person. So, We appreciate the continued support from all. Also, please give us a follow on our Twitter account, No Conference for Old Men.
@NoConfForOldMen: Thank you all again for listening. And again, as a reminder, we're now in our off-season cadence of one episode per month, so please be on the lookout to download and listen as the next episode drops.
@NoConfForOldMen: Take care, everyone.
.0Bill Walker: Thank
