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True Flex in the workplace - Possibilities and pitfalls
40 Plays1 year ago
This month Leanne and Tanita are joined by Lorna Reeves to discuss the importance of True Flex in the workplace, what it means and how both organisations and employees can benefit from its implementation.
Lorna Reeves is a multi-award winning business owner. After 15 years as a CSI, Lorna made the leap to pursue her passion for creating experiential, game changing business events, elevating her clients’ brands. In her campaign for #NoMoreBoringConferences, she works to create 4D experiences to maximise engagement and immersion for attendees.
Now working with the incredible team at Office Christmas Party, Lorna looks to create next level experiences, whist continuing to elevate and advocate for women in the events industry as a front runner for practical flexible working and true flex in the workplace.
Resource mentioned in podcast - https://www.jamespicklescoaching.co.uk/post/power-your-yeses-with-nos
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Transcript
Introductions and Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Eventful Encounters. Anthony is the marketing manager here at the Eastside rooms in the Loughburn and Gummyside. Hello and I'm Leanne, the director of sales and marketing at the Loughburn and Gummyside and the Eastside rooms. Forgot to get you jumped over there. So welcome everybody to our latest episode.
00:00:20
Speaker
which is with the lovely Lorna Reeves from Office Christmas where we're talking about TrueFlex. So interesting fact, did you know that over 70% of event professionals are rethinking their work models um with TrueFlex at the forefront of this transformation? So we thought we'd delve into the topic today to get a better understanding of what TrueFlex is. So over to you,
Introducing TrueFlex: Benefits and Impact
00:00:45
Speaker
Lorna. The first thing to say is that TrueFlex is way more than just allowing people to work from home um and it is is really the enabler that allows people to be retained in their work role that really accelerates growth of women particularly um and
00:01:10
Speaker
It's something that when done properly means that people can, people, men and women can actually maximise their true potential. They work better, they live better um and ultimately stay with your company for longer. It's how that you get return on investment for that amazing training that you've given people. And how does TrueFlex differ from traditional flexible working arrangements?
00:01:33
Speaker
Good question. I think flexible working massively changed obviously during the pandemic. We all got chucked into this whole different space and having to do things differently. And I think it's creeping back towards that era of presenteeism. Those people that that are in the office seem to be working in inverted commas and those that are still at home are not. When actually True Flex is about allowing people to work as adults, allowing to people to work in a way that suits their lives, that suits their body, that suits their um their own makeup. It allows people to take control of what is their working day um and do it to the best of their ability.
00:02:21
Speaker
It might well be that it suits you to log on at five in the morning and work for a couple of hours really intensively and then take the kids to school and then come back and do some more hours. It might well be that you are your most creative and dazzling self at nine o'clock at night and actually giving people permission to do that and explore that creativity um and work in that way is how we get the most out of our workforce. It's moving away from this. You have to be attached to your laptop from nine until five in order to be a productive person. It's just not the way that we work anymore. And with so many companies now being global companies or people working
00:03:04
Speaker
not in the same place that they used to work, it's how do we adapt and overcome to allow people to work in their best way whilst still obviously you've got a business to run, still maintaining your business output. and It's a lot more than you're allowed to work from home two days a week, and that's for sure.
TrueFlex vs Traditional Models
00:03:25
Speaker
The thing is, I feel like with the events industry, it is known for being high energy, known for being fast paced. It is a 24 hour industry actually, isn't it? So quite often, you know, events will be happening outside of the nine to five parameters. So I feel like, you know,
00:03:44
Speaker
if because of the nature of the industry, it can become quite easy but to become burnt out in the industry as well, and because of the demands of it. So I feel like this concept of TruFlex is actually really refreshing and probably a shift in the industry that's needed. 100%. And events industry is the prime place to try it out. If you've got an event that's running from 6pm to set up,
00:04:12
Speaker
until all through the night and it finishes takedown at 2am. why haven't we got people that that suits to work those hours and give them permission to do that and then not expect them to come in at eight o'clock the next morning. at nine of this morning yeah Exactly and and there's some people that it will really suit to work. They are night owls naturally. They will be amazing at that time of night. I am definitely a morning person so by nine ten o'clock at night I'm on my chin straps. I've got nothing left to give. I am not productive.
00:04:44
Speaker
But I'd be happy to be in the office at five in the morning doing the set time for all of your conferences or, you know, using people in the best way that they work and giving them permission to do that. It's making use of their strengths, isn't it? 100%, 100% and trusting people. That's I think the fundamental thing is is trusting that they've got a job to do, they know how to do it and they know the best way for themselves to get that done um and not expecting everyone to fit in these square boxes is really critical.
Challenges and Trust in TrueFlex
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah I definitely like that and the concept of like working in the best way because you are right as individuals we all have different preferences, we all have different ways that we work better, some people prefer mornings, some people prefer evenings so it's nice to kind of think of a
00:05:33
Speaker
a company where people could work in a way that suits their lifestyle and gives them a little bit of balance back as well. So can, sorry. No, sorry, go ahead. We're just both talking. um So potential drawbacks then, Lorna. So obviously at the moment we've heard lots of positives and why we think that it would be good to have this true flex. But obviously it's a bit of a shift for employers as well. It's a bit of a shift for people that kind of have that traditional mindset of thinking of a working day is nine to five. So um can you think of any potential drawbacks or challenges, you know, to and a company embracing TrueFlex? A hundred percent. This takes investment and training in your managers as a starter for six. I think companies that really struggle to embrace TrueFlex are companies that
00:06:29
Speaker
have done nine to five in the office for 100 years. So it's actually helping and empowering managers to be able to manage those conversations. So I'm actually teaching them how to set clear objectives, like how does Tanita know if she's done a good job? What are her objectives on a day to day basis, on a week by week basis, and on a monthly basis? How do you know if they're not really clearly outlined?
00:06:55
Speaker
and I think that's where the investment needs to be. how did How do managers know if their people are performing well and adequately and then how do individuals know that they're performing and what's expected of them? That is where the investment comes, that's where the challenge comes because then that kind of comforts our managers that are a little bit reticent about this and it says actually I've got a measurable, I know if Tanita's doing her job or not, because these things will be hit or not. And if they're not hit, we can have those conversations and see if we can have the conversation. Yeah, exactly. That underperforming conversation rather than I noticed that Tanita's mouse hasn't moved in the last three hours.
00:07:37
Speaker
and judging that as a way of productivity, she might have been on the phone for three hours scoring a really big deal, or she might have been helping a client with a really difficult problem. Because you're not attached to your computer doesn't mean that you're not productive. And the biggest challenge is changing that mindset. And then the second biggest challenge is then communication, creating a culture within an organization where communication is free and comfortable and open means that I can say, hey, I'm stepping away from my laptop to have a lunch break. Yeah, I've got client calls from two to four in case I'm not available on the phone. And people go, Oh, okay, yeah, that's fine. Not i wonder where she's going online shopping instead of actually doing her job. You know, it's that.
00:08:21
Speaker
comfortable, I trust that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, I trust that you're giving everything when you say you're giving it and you're going to deliver on those things that we've agreed.
00:08:33
Speaker
And having that communication of a team being able to support each other um that maybe says, Leanne doesn't work on Thursdays, or she works every other Thursday because that suits her.
Work-Life Balance and Negotiation Tips
00:08:43
Speaker
And having the rest of the team able to pick that up and understand what flex looks like for everybody in the team and understand how you can work together as a team to support each other's goals is really important as well. And if that's not there, that's where sometimes you get a bit of a rub.
00:08:59
Speaker
fiction Yeah, yeah but people feel that they're getting something that you're not but Yeah, they're a bit hard done by because you're getting that extra day off or you know You're working in when they want to work or what however vice versa 100% I also feel like there's been a culture in the past, you know in in the events industry as well I think because it's been very much a 24-hour business of that kind of ought being always on, you know, responding to people outside business hours or picking up your emails. And I think, you know, the onus of that also has to come on to you as an employee to kind of say, you know, to set your boundaries as well and to say,
00:09:39
Speaker
actually, I'm not going to respond outside the designated working time. And that could be different for different people. But you know I'm quite strict with that with my team as well. like I like to make sure that they switch off, recharge, um and just so that you get that work-life balance and you enjoy your time when you're not at work, so that you do then recharge and you come back feeling refreshed.
00:10:02
Speaker
Perfect example, yesterday, I was thinking of something in my head, and a discussion that Tanita and I had had last year, possibly, I think it was last year, and I was thinking, oh, what was this company? What was this company? and All night, I couldn't think about what company this was that we'd discussed. She did not sleep. And Tonita said, why didn't you message me? And I was like, no, because you were off for the day, Tonita. And I did not want to interrupt her. She went, you could have just messaged me. And I know I could have done. And I know, actually, Tonita wouldn't have taken any offense in receiving that message. But I didn't want to interrupt her day off, because for me, time off is, you know, personally, when I'm off, my time off is precious, and I enjoy it, and I like to spend time
00:10:48
Speaker
I've got a young family, I like to spend time with them. and So I equally respected Tanita's time off. Absolutely, and and that is a really powerful thing to role model, to all of our people that we manage, people that we work alongside, people that we respect as our peers, actually saying I respect your time and your boundaries is as powerful as having them yourself.
00:11:13
Speaker
And it helps. It really does help. And it helps with company culture. It helps with retention. People don't get burnt out. They don't feel like the pressure to be working all the time. It helps when people come for promotion. They don't feel like, oh, I don't want to go for that next role because it's going to be expected that I'm on 24 hours a day. yeah yeah No, that's not what it's about. You know, you could be a group manager and not be on all the time, actually, because you've seen it done before.
00:11:43
Speaker
And that's not what's expected of you, you just need to do a good job in the time that you have. And if you don't have enough time to do your job that you're awake, something's wrong with your job. It's not something that's wrong with you in your time. It's a really powerful thing boundaries and I think it's It says a lot about company culture if those boundaries are expected and respected. Good boundaries, Taneeta. How do we go about setting those boundaries, Dawna? Is it down to the employee themselves? Is it down to the employer? Is it a discussion that needs to be had? How do we get to that point that everybody is happy with the boundaries and knows what they are to be able to respect them?
00:12:20
Speaker
It takes time. If they're not there already, it does take time because it is a huge change in behavior and it's a huge change in culture. I think a powerful part of it needs to come from the top down and it needs you need to be able to see your leadership team saying good night on a Friday or whatever day it is because we're a 24-hour culture, um saying I'm off now for two days.
00:12:46
Speaker
if it and merck If it's important, this is who you should speak to. If it's not, I will pick it up when I come back on. And not doing the, I'm just going to check my email six hours before I want you to go back to work and reply to some, because that's mixed messaging. Actually, yeah having the time off, if you feel the compulsion to look and respond, schedule them for after you come back. You know, make it really clear to your people. And you're equally challenging each other, like saying things like no to nature, I'm not going to message you on your day off.
00:13:16
Speaker
means that she does she does challenge when it's the shoes on the other foot, you can do that for each other as well. Yeah, you can do that for your teams and say, Hey, it's 11 o'clock at night. Are you supposed to be emailing me if that person then says, Oh, actually today I was doing a four till 11 because that's what suits me fine. But it means you can have those conversations. And I think we all need to get used to people saying no.
00:13:41
Speaker
And nobody likes to hear it. But when and and there's a there's a whole, um remember the author, I'll give you the author for the show notes of a book about a guy who says no in corporates for how you say no, be listened to and still be respected. Yeah. And it's about, you know, I know I've given you 27 jobs to do this week. But can you just that question? I know it's five minutes before you do to go home. but Can you just And how you say no to that and somebody if they somebody says to you actually, yeah.
00:14:13
Speaker
I'm not going to be able to get to that today. But if you write it down for me, I can do it first thing tomorrow. Accepting that as, okay, that's somebody employing their boundaries. And that being okay, is is a really powerful thing. And not not going, oh, hang on a minute, I've asked you to do something, you'll you'll get on with it. That is somebody saying, no, but in a helpful and constructive way. And I think that's what we need to embrace more of.
00:14:39
Speaker
100% and I think we kind of in our pre-chat we talked about um how in the events industry we've lost some amazing people from the industry because of exactly that they've not been able to kind of have that time to switch off or to recoup and then they've just decided actually let's just jump into a totally different industry where ah you know where it is perhaps more of a nine till five industry, it's not 24 hours, you're not expected to be always on. So um I think getting that balance and kind of understanding people's boundaries, respecting people's boundaries,
00:15:17
Speaker
Treating others I think as well how you'd like to be treated. You know the fact that I said I enjoy my time off and I wouldn't want people to interrupt that is why I respected Tanita's time off and I didn't want to interrupt that either but I think you know it's we have to be mindful of the fact that we have to be supportive of people working in true flex in our industry to kind of support their careers and to understand that people can still be mothers or have you know, and outside interests, outside of work that they want to pursue and not not constantly being in that always on mode. Yeah, absolutely. And and imagine if you had the most talented person in your industry, and they'd worked for you for 20 years, and all of a sudden, their life circumstances change, which means they can't get into the office for nine o'clock, but they could get in for 11. But
00:16:13
Speaker
the the work environment is so inflexible that it makes it impossible for that person. They could potentially earn your business millions of pounds a year but because it's so inflexible you're going to lose out on that and that person's going to go elsewhere.
00:16:27
Speaker
So we're missing out on those habits. Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, mind boggling, just for being able to adapt. And sometimes true flex means adapting by two hours, or adapting one day every two weeks until we actually have those conversations with individuals. Because some people want to come into the office from nine to five, it suits them brilliantly. They love the team environment.
00:16:51
Speaker
Great, if that's what works for them. And a couple of individuals might just need some small adjustments. And as long as that's open to everybody, we don't miss out on amazing talent. We don't look at skewing the gender bias in the industry because, let's face it, most of the time parenting responsibilities does come down to women statistically. um We are going to miss out on that talent. We're going to miss out on elevating those people.
00:17:19
Speaker
um And it's it's a really powerful thing to do to be able to stand up as a company and say, we support everybody as individuals. Whatever your uniqueness is, whenever if you know you've just suddenly fallen into the menopause and suddenly you need to start working differently. You didn't ask for it. It just smacked you in the face one day. yeah And suddenly exactly you don't sleep anymore. And actually you do your best work between three in the afternoon and nine o'clock at night because that's when your body has decided with no control from you, but that's when it works. You wouldn't want to kick those people out of the office. And that's what is happening. Those women are feeling like, I can't do this anymore. I can't live by the straight line standards, I'm going to have to leave. And we're we're just losing that talent and those years worth of experience. And that's something we did discuss in our last episode as well, how we yeah
00:18:14
Speaker
losing so many and wonderful ladies that are so good at their job, but they just cannot cope anymore once they get to that certain point in life. And it's it's a real shame. Yeah, it is. I feel like queen we definitely need to be more supportive and also, I like that kind of bespoken, you know, to different individuals because people do have different needs or wants outside of their workspace and then, you know,
00:18:42
Speaker
Like you said, that kind of cookie cutter nine till five doesn't work for everybody. So next question then, Lorna, if somebody thought is listening and thinks, oh, TreeFlex, I never knew this was a thing. This sounds very interesting. and How would you say that they would then, you know, or how could they approach their employer to strike up the conversation about TreeFlex or about their workplace embracing this new way of working?
00:19:11
Speaker
So I think first of all, you need to have a think about what it is that you are asking for. um I think some if then if an employer is not offering flex as a standard, or you can't see it being done elsewhere in the business, you really need to have a think about what that tangibly looks like. If you walk into an employer's office and says, I want to work flexibly, it's too big a concept. It justice too it feels too hard. If you walked in and said,
00:19:41
Speaker
I'm really struggling to get to start work by nine o'clock. What would really help me is X, Y and Z, a later start time, a slight shift in timings or the ability to um arrange my work around drop off and pick up or arrange my work around doggy daycare or have an actual thing that you want to ask for. Can you help me with this?
00:20:06
Speaker
I really want to stay in the organisation because of X, Y and Z and don't be backwards in coming forwards and telling people why you want to stay and you don't actually don't want to go anywhere else. um But ask for the thing. um And I think, well, in terms of legislation, you have an entitlement to ask for flex regardless of how long you've been employed in an organisation now.
00:20:30
Speaker
um But I think most employers will be open to that suggestion. But I always say start with the anticipation of a trial. You can try something for a month, for three months and see how it goes. Don't chuck in the towel in the first week because all this is a bit weird and a bit difficult and a few people are asking questions. Roll with it for at least a month, preferably three, and then review it regularly. Keep those channels of communication open.
00:20:59
Speaker
and talk about, the employer might will say, I'm on board with this, but, Tanita, it would really help if you were in the morning meeting on a Tuesday. We're really struggling to progress things. And there's a bit of give and take. You know, there's a bit of the business needs X from me, so I can make allowances and get to that meeting. Or I can make an impression. Absolutely. We do still need to take that into account. We do still need to take business needs into account. But then equally, the business needs to take I suppose, employees needs into account. And that's where you'll meet that happy medium. yeahdri going Absolutely. And looking at people as individuals rather than well, but the other 1000 people manage this, well, maybe the other 1000 people would be happier if they didn't have to manage it.
00:21:42
Speaker
And it does take one brave person to put their hand up and say, can we do this differently? And there's so much support everywhere. If employers were approached and didn't know what to do with it, and I would say get help, get help from a culture change person, get help from somebody that's already doing it, get help help from your ah HR specialists, and have a look at what other industry other people in the industry are doing around true flexible working and how you can support people.
00:22:11
Speaker
I mean, we've always had the argument with sort of at home working. Certain departments can do it and certain departments obviously can't with where we work in. But I suppose in true flex, all departments could benefit from this because all departments could start that little bit earlier or finish that little bit later or, you know, adapt things to their needs. So it's actually more, what's the word I'm looking for?
00:22:32
Speaker
um people Yes. Inclusive. Inclusive, that's the word. Thank you, Laura. Inclusive. And flex doesn't just mean you can work from home, you know that's agile working and I think we very often blur the lines between the two. Agile wling from your laer yeah agile working you can work from anywhere that's not the office and for some people that works brilliantly, some people hate it and hate being on their own at home and I completely get that. But if it meant that, I don't know, somebody in security
00:23:06
Speaker
their last train, yes they have to be on their last train at half past 11 at night. Let's stop forcing them to work to 1am and have to get a cab because it just makes them miserable, doesn't make them want to stay. Let's see how we can adjust their shift slightly. Let's see who actually works for them to work a little bit later and adapt the shift work to encompass those people. you know Flex does work for just about every role type, if done carefully, compassionately and with communication.
00:23:36
Speaker
Great advice. now lona yeah I just rustled that up. Yeah. like it ti my head And I know that you said the, you know, your organization really embraces this concept of TruFlex, which is really great and um really transformative and I suppose very forward thinking as well. So can you share with us and as like a little finishing note, you know, a personal experience where TruFlex has kind of given you that um great balance between work life and how it's helped and significantly impacted your life.
TrueFlex Success Stories and Closing Remarks
00:24:13
Speaker
Yeah so when I um started my business I was very careful that I needed a business that worked around me but also I wanted to make sure that I recruited the best talent that I could into and my business as well um and it just so happened that everybody that I interviewed for any position was a parent and needed to work flexibly.
00:24:38
Speaker
um So I just suddenly thought I'm a business owner, I've got enough on my plate, I don't want to be counting annual leave hours, I don't want to be counting and checking that somebody's in work at nine o'clock on the door and finishes at five and they've got 30 minutes toil here and there. So actually allowing people to work flexibly with a really clear job description, um really clear objectives about what we needed them to do daily, weekly, monthly, meant that I could stop worrying. And they just took on all of the roles that I asked them to do and more. The goodwill in the company went through the roof. um we don't didn't We didn't have annual leave at all.
00:25:23
Speaker
um There's no annual leave cap. We just said, if you need holiday, take a week's holiday. If you need two weeks holiday, take two weeks holiday. That actually didn't equate to any more than 22 days. Each individual didn't take any more than 22 days.
00:25:38
Speaker
Which is bonkers, because when you sign a contract that says you get 28 days holiday, you think, oh, that's a winner. But the team just take time off when they need it. They work flexibly around kids and dogs and sports and whatever's important to them. The work still gets done. The work still gets done really well. And everybody's happy. We have yet to lose a person. Nobody has resigned from the company. Nobody has been dismissed from the company in six years.
00:26:07
Speaker
That's amazing. We don't have turnover. of all that is And that's a testament to how TreeFlex has kind of really significantly impacted your business and also had a positive impact on the staff too. And and I've started working with and Office Christmas at the moment and what drew me to them in the first place was I suddenly found the company that do the same sort of thing that we do, that don't expect people to be nailed to their laptops day in day out.
00:26:38
Speaker
They are also an events company that are advocating for women that you know if your dog's important to you, there's a dog in the office. that in it i' It feels like a family. It feels like each person in the office and in the company has a voice, has an opinion and that everybody has everybody's back. If somebody needs to go and do something for the day, they communicate it clearly, everybody else picks up their slack and you know that that's going to be reciprocated as soon as you need it back again. It just means
00:27:11
Speaker
that there's no misery. There's none of that sunday mor Sunday night, oh God, I've got to go to work tomorrow. It just doesn't happen because it's a nice place to be. And who doesn't want to work somewhere that's joyful, somewhere that you are excited to go to and you look forward to seeing the people and you know that you're going to be looked after. I love that. I feel like we're like that too. ah We are. We are. We definitely are. We're a nice little team and and we like to do the same thing. We did.
00:27:42
Speaker
I like that. Amazing. It's definitely good. So thank you so much, Lorna, for your insight into TreeFlex. It's been very refreshing. And I think educational as well, like I said, we and probably saw agile work in as flexible work. And that's what we thought, yeah. We've taken a new approach now. We now know the difference between the two, so thank you. You are very welcome. Thank you very much, Lorna. And as always, to stay up to date with all things CSI Rooms and eventful encounters, follow us on Facebook, Instagram,
00:28:11
Speaker
and LinkedIn at The East Side Rooms. Wonderful. and and And our next podcast episode will be featured in September, so keep your ears to the ground for that one. So thank you very much for joining us, Lorna. Thank you, everyone, for listening. You can catch the eventful encounters on all your usual podcast platforms, which is Spotify, Amazon, and Apple. See you soon. Thank you. Bye. Bye.