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Negative & Positive Punishment?
53 Plays10 months ago
You will leave this episode with a solid understanding of what Positive & Negative punishment are, you will find out if you are using it in your classroom or home, and you will know how to tell when it is an effective reinforcement strategy.
Also very exciting news: We have created a new section on my website where you can access cheat sheets and different templates for the information I provide on each episode! These will certainly help keep everyone on the same page.
Check them out at: www.uncomplicatebehaviorpodcast.com/resources
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Transcript
Introduction to Behavior Analysis Podcast
00:00:17
Speaker
Hey there, I'm Crystal. I'm a behavior analyst and I'm here to help you uncomplicate the complicated world of behavior. We are going to get into all things behavior here. Strategies, interventions, support, data, assessments, the good, the frustrating, and especially the complicated. I'm a behavior analyst who loves to educate, be positive, and most importantly, be proactive.
00:00:40
Speaker
This podcast is your place to learn more about behavior analysis and the beautiful benefits that come with being positive and proactive. This is your uninterrupted time to talk behavior with your bestie. So grab your headphones, your walking shoes, or pull up that comfy chair and get ready to learn.
Is Punishment Misunderstood in Behavior Management?
00:01:02
Speaker
In this episode, I am covering the controversial topic of the use of punishment. Now, I'm not exactly sure how controversial it is, but I do know that whenever I say punishment, I get the big eyes and the head shakes to let me know that there's no way punishment is being used or has ever been used in their parenting style or in their classroom.
00:01:23
Speaker
And I'm just going to give you a spoiler alert right here. We have all used a form of punishment. Whether you're a teacher, practitioner, nanny, parent, you are likely using punishment procedures without even knowing you're doing it. And you may be using it more than you think.
00:01:39
Speaker
That's why I'm so excited to share this information with you today. I want you to learn exactly what negative and positive punishment is so you can recognize when it's being done and if it's an appropriate form of reinforcement for your client, child, or student.
00:01:55
Speaker
Understanding this will help you determine if what you're doing is the best way to solve that behavioral challenge you're facing. There is a powerful change that happens when we understand what effect our response has on behavior. I say that a lot. I think I've said it almost every episode because when challenging behaviors occur, it can place us in this really tricky position. It can be frustrating and unnerving to be the one in charge.
00:02:21
Speaker
especially as a practitioner or a teacher because you have all eyes on you to solve that challenge.
Feedback on Behavior Management Challenges
00:02:29
Speaker
Feedback that I've received when I am training or doing a consultation is that it's embarrassing. It's frustrating and it's confusing when challenging behaviors occur and there's no clear plan on what to do or maybe that nothing has been effective with that child.
00:02:45
Speaker
It's hard to be that person in charge. And believe me, I get it because that is my job. I come into these situations. But understanding behavior, uncomplicating it, it gives us that pause in our reaction that helps us question, is this a positive intervention or is this a punishment procedure? And what effect will that have on the behavior and the emotional well-being of that child and everyone around?
00:03:13
Speaker
What you will learn today is how to identify just that. When we respond to behavior, we have that opportunity to teach a new behavior and reinforce it, or we have the opportunity to apply a punishment that will most likely decrease the probability of that behavior occurring again, but typically only under those same conditions.
Why is Positive Reinforcement More Effective?
00:03:33
Speaker
And I'll get into what that means in just a little bit.
00:03:36
Speaker
Understanding what negative and positive reinforcement is and what negative and positive punishment is gives us the power to better control our response to challenging behaviors. We won't be bound by the frustration of what the behavior is doing to the environment. We give ourselves an alternate choice to choose how that behavioral episode or how that behavioral instance will end.
00:03:58
Speaker
And I want to tell you right now, positive reinforcement is more powerful than any form of punishment. I want to say that again. Positive reinforcement is more powerful than any form of punishment, negative or positive. More than me telling you this, you have to understand why. I started this podcast because I want you to learn more than just strategies. I want you to learn why they are effective and when to apply them.
00:04:27
Speaker
This episode will give you the knowledge to look at a behavior intervention plan and say, hey, that's negative punishment. And I don't think that's appropriate at this time for my child. And it gives you the power to question your team and say, what can we do that is positive and proactive to help?
00:04:44
Speaker
Imagine coming to your team with that kind of statement. That can move things along a lot more quickly, quickly identifying the problem. That's punishment, and it's not as effective as reinforcement. So what can we actually do that's positive, proactive, and reinforcing of the behavior? Okay, we want to move away from those punishment procedures, especially in school, because that's the start of that meaningful conversation with your team.
Explaining Positive and Negative Punishment
00:05:11
Speaker
So today we are covering what is positive punishment, negative punishment, the effect of positive and negative punishment, and what that looks like at school, home, a clinical setting. And then questions you can ask your team to make sure that you are using, and everybody's using, a positive and proactive approach. So let's get into it. Punishment, just straight up punishment, according to the book of Applied Behavior Analysis, occurs when a stimulus change immediately follows a response.
00:05:41
Speaker
and decreases the future frequency of that type of behavior in similar conditions. Meaning, punishment is going to decrease a behavior. So negative or positive, punishment is going to decrease a behavior. Now, determining whether or not the punishment was positive or negative is dependent on what was added or taken away from the environment. Just jumping back real quick to episode six,
00:06:09
Speaker
negative and positive reinforcement, you can see that there's a connection there, right? With negative and positive reinforcement, we are seeking to increase a behavior. We want that behavior to occur again. And with negative and positive punishment,
00:06:26
Speaker
we are looking to decrease a behavior, right? The result is gonna decrease the future occurrence of that behavior. Now, it's important to remember, I know I mentioned this again in episode six, remember that in behavior analysis, the study of behavior, there is no positive and negative that is associated with good or bad. Negative and positive is associated with stimulus changes.
00:06:53
Speaker
Was something added to the environment positive? Was something taken away? Negative. So there's no good or bad. Just stimulus change. What is added? What is taken away? So let's get into positive punishment. Positive punishment occurs when a behavior is immediately followed by the presentation of a stimulus that decreases the future probability of that behavior.
00:07:16
Speaker
Let's break that down. Behavior occurs and the response or reaction includes the presentation of something and the effect of that presentation decreases the future probability of that behavior. And I want to go over some examples to really cement this in. Now keep this in mind again, any form of punishment should decrease a behavior.
00:07:40
Speaker
when a teacher calls out a student for being on their phone during class. That is positive punishment. The student on their phone, so the student is on their phone, teacher presents a reprimand, which most likely embarrasses the student. And the student, based on that reprimand, refrains from using their phone during that class with that teacher. Does that mean that that student will most likely not use their phone in another teacher's classroom?
00:08:09
Speaker
they probably will if that teacher doesn't reprimand them, right? So the reprimand adding something to the environment has decreased the future probability of that behavior. When I first learned this, I remember that aha moment when I realized that adding something to the environment didn't necessarily mean a physical something. Just with the definition alone, how many of you listening have used positive punishment?
00:08:36
Speaker
An interesting way to look at behavior, right? In episode one, I talked, well, I always talk about seeing behavior functionally and objectively. When I learned this concept, things really kicked in for me. When I first got into conducting functional behavior assessments, I worked with a psychologist who told me that I saw things differently through a behavioral lens. And I agreed in the moment and the conversation went on to whatever we're doing.
00:09:03
Speaker
But that was the first time I realized that as a behaviorist learning and studying behavior, I did see behavior differently than anyone else. And that is what I want for you. I'm telling you it brings a calm energy to every situation to really look at behavior and say, what is the function? And then what is that outcome that I want to be? Do I want to do a positive reinforcement? Do I want to do a positive punishment?
00:09:31
Speaker
Okay, let's move on to some more examples of what positive punishment looks like. At home, positive punishment is like adding more chores when one was neglected. So child forgets to take out the trash. Parent now adds all the trash in the house. The presentation of more chores because one was forgotten may decrease the forgetting behavior in the future.
What are the Effects of Negative Punishment?
00:09:52
Speaker
They don't want to take out all the trash cans, so they will likely remember to take the one out so they don't have to take them all out.
00:10:00
Speaker
And there's a classic that may or may not happen anymore, but the student that writes on his desk has to clean all the desks in the class during lunch. Adding to the environment to reduce the likelihood of a behavior is positive punishment. Adding yelling, adding reprimands, adding increased tasks, minute by minute reminders, that snooze button going off until it drives you crazy and you finally get out of bed, all positive punishment.
00:10:29
Speaker
And on a personal note, just think, when we add a positive punishment and it does decrease the behavior, what effect does that have on the relationship? It's important to consider because while yelling or reprimands or long drawn out speeches about why the behavior was wrong, it may decrease the likelihood of that behavior in that moment for that day under those conditions. But think about what
00:10:55
Speaker
our behavior, what our response of the use of positive punishment has done to the relationship. And the example that it sets, what are you modeling for your kids? It is definitely something to think about and be aware of because when we are yelling or reprimand, that doesn't feel good to anyone, right? It doesn't feel good to the recipient and it honestly doesn't ultimately feel good for us.
00:11:23
Speaker
And what does that pair you with? Oh, and that brings me to pairing. That makes me think I cannot wait to go over the importance of pairing. I was in an IEP meeting just last week, right before Christmas break, and several staff members on this team told me that they can't build rapport with a student.
00:11:42
Speaker
And one that broke my heart because report is the first thing that we need to establish always and it's gotta be pretty frustrating for those practitioners to not be able to build report. It mainly write down in my podcasting notebook that I have to do an episode on building report because it's so important and it's also fun.
00:12:00
Speaker
Okay, back on track. Let's get into negative punishment. Negative punishment involves the termination of an already present stimulus immediately following a behavior. And that removal of a stimulus results in a decrease in probability of that behavior occurring again
00:12:20
Speaker
under those same conditions. Negative punishment is when we remove a preferred stimulus in efforts to decrease the future probability of a challenging behavior. Has your child ever misbehaved and you took away their favorite toy? The goal here is reduction, right? So we are removing something highly preferred, something pleasant to decrease the occurrence of a particular behavior.
00:12:47
Speaker
Here are some key examples that may sound familiar to you in your practice or parenting style. Child that hits, he loses access to a preferred item or token. And loss of token is called a response cost. Students that work off a token economy, star chart, basically any system where they're earning tokens or items for access to information.
00:13:11
Speaker
preferred reinforcers or stimuli. That's considered a type of token economy. And when a student or child loses an earned token or stock or whatever you may be calling it, that's called response cost. And this is a behavioral technique where a token or specific privilege is removed.
00:13:29
Speaker
immediately following the occurrence of a challenging behavior or behavior that's currently being targeted for decrease. I do want to say that if you recognize that you're doing this, you should know that it needs to be paired with a higher level of positive reinforcement to be effective. But also, and most importantly, you should seek consult with a board certified behavior analyst because there are negative outcomes that may come with a response cost. I was in an observation
00:13:58
Speaker
I don't know, maybe a month ago or so, where every time a child hit, they lost these dots that earned them access to preferred items, preferred locations on campus. And every time that child lost those dots, there was just extreme escalations in behavior. So he would hit, he would cry, and it really made the situation
00:14:28
Speaker
that much worse and it broke my heart for everybody involved because the child wasn't learning anything and what the staff members were doing was completely ineffective and it was ruining
00:14:40
Speaker
instructional control and rapport. And it was pairing these negative experiences in the classroom. So if you're going to be using a response cost system, I highly recommend that you seek consult from a behavior analyst so that we can do it right. And it can be effective if that is the last resort or if that is how the team has decided to work on that behavior. Because
00:15:05
Speaker
A behavior analyst can come in and say these are the positive and proactive ways that we should do this first and foremost before we start using negative punishment. Other examples of negative punishment include timeouts when a child engages in challenging behavior and is removed from the area, removing recess for inappropriate behavior that occurred during class, charging a fee,
00:15:30
Speaker
right? So we're taking money for parking violations or late payments. A good one when a dog jumps on you and you immediately turn around to remove attention, taking away a child's phone or access to technology. The fine that we pay for speeding
00:15:48
Speaker
It doesn't eliminate our speeding and this is where it's really important because I've said it a couple times where when we utilize negative punishment, it decreases the likelihood of that behavior again.
00:16:01
Speaker
under those same conditions. And I want to talk about speeding because it's funny and it's relevant, right? So when we are speeding and we get a speeding ticket and we have to pay money for that, and then ultimately we're more late than we would have been if we weren't speeding, it doesn't mean that we're never going to speed again. It just means that under those same conditions,
00:16:26
Speaker
maybe every time we pass that street where we did get a ticket and we know that the police officers like to hang out or every time we see a police officer, we will reduce our speed or we won't speed in that certain area. But that doesn't mean we're never going to speed again, right? So it's an important concept to keep in mind as we're learning about negative punishment and punishment procedures. They typically only change behavior under those circumstances or under
00:16:56
Speaker
those same stimuluses when those are present. If we're looking for long-term behavior change, we need to go back and look at positive reinforcement.
00:17:06
Speaker
When we punish a behavior, the punished learns to avoid those consequences only under those conditions. So we must consider that as adults, we are punished for speeding, for parking in places we shouldn't, paying bills late, but those behaviors don't necessarily go away forever, right?
00:17:27
Speaker
So now that we've covered a little bit of what negative punishment is, here are some drawbacks and some main points to keep in mind when using punishment procedures. Punishment procedures may teach a fear-based response. And what happens when we are fearful of something?
00:17:45
Speaker
It creates pathways to all of these other types of behaviors. I have seen punishment procedures in school lead to school-based refusal, teacher and staff avoidance, kids may become fearful of the parent removing preferred items, and it could really be damaging to the parent-child-student-teacher relationship, and it could also elicit some sneaky or lying behavior to avoid that particular punishment.
00:18:12
Speaker
any behaviorist, any experienced behaviorist will tell you that when using punishment, the benefits must be weighed against the negative effects. BF Skinner is quoted to say, a person who has been punished is not less inclined to behave in a given way. At best, he learns how to avoid punishment.
00:18:35
Speaker
So we have to think, is that what we want to teach? Is that the way we want to teach a new behavior? Is that the way we want to lessen the occurrence of this behavior? I want to wrap this up for you and say that punishment appears to be the go-to method for responding to maladaptive or challenging behavior. I have seen it used in testing for assessments. I've seen it used in classrooms, day cares,
00:19:00
Speaker
And just in life in general, it seems to be kind of the common consequence. When the child does this, I take away this or they don't have access to this anymore. And my goal here, the reason why I started this is to teach that we can be more effective with positive reinforcement. Just to let you know, I have done this in my own household and it is like a go-to and I really work on changing this
00:19:30
Speaker
But just the other day, I was with my family and my son who is seven. He's currently in the phase of life where he doesn't want to take any pictures. Friends, family, it doesn't matter who it is. He does not want to take pictures. And we just spent the last couple of days at Universal Studios and we never buy our kids gifts like the day we're there. So we always try to wait right before we'll leave. They can pick something out at one of the stores. One thing.
00:19:56
Speaker
Well, we were taking pictures on our last day, but my son just flat out refused. And for some reason, nothing makes me more upset than when he won't take a picture. And my immediate go-to response to just solve that behavioral problem, in that instance, I said, hey, if you're not going to take pictures, you're not going to be able to get something today before we leave.
00:20:16
Speaker
Now that solved the problem. He walked right over and he took pictures. Now he didn't have the best smile on his face, but he was in there and I immediately knew that was the wrong thing to do. Not only did I threaten to take something away from him that he wanted and then
00:20:35
Speaker
he had been looking forward to. But I paired the picture taking with kind of a negative experience and I paired myself with that. So instantly when I realized this and he took the picture, I went in and had to go back and positively reinforce him
00:20:51
Speaker
and kind of turn that ship around. And don't get me wrong, this wasn't instant. He was quite grumpy for I think an hour or two after that because it didn't feel good to him to be forced into something and it didn't feel good to me either.
How to Balance Punishment and Positive Reinforcement?
00:21:08
Speaker
And so I had to really work backwards from that situation to use positive reinforcement and to be a little bit more proactive with upcoming pictures.
00:21:17
Speaker
And it definitely worked and it was definitely more effective and he was able to take pictures with his friends and with us. But I had to kind of go back and I think the reason why I'm sharing this with you is because it happens, right? It's our go to and I think
00:21:35
Speaker
as a community and seeing schools and working with families and in my own life, it is kind of this conditioned thing that we do as adults or teachers, practitioners to say, okay, you did this, know that. And there is a more effective way to do it when we learn about behavior. All in all, the use of negative or positive punishment can reduce or eliminate engagement in maladaptive or challenging behaviors.
00:22:04
Speaker
but it has to be planned, thoughtful, and really implemented with integrity. There needs to be more access to positive reinforcement available, and you should be giving more positive reinforcement, encouragement, or mental building than you are giving up any punishment if you want to teach what is correct and what is incorrect. So when we dole out punishments in our own emotionally escalated states, it comes off that way.
00:22:33
Speaker
And we give the impression of being out of control ourselves and at a loss of what to do. And guess who picks up on that? The quickest, the kids. Our kids are incredible behaviorists when it comes to their guardians or whoever's in charge. And they will quickly learn our behavior before we learn theirs. So think about how you want to change behavior in your home.
00:22:57
Speaker
classroom or practice and decide which tools and techniques are best for you. Let me know what you think about this topic and if you've been using positive or negative punishment in your parenting style or classrooms. I want to know because these are the things that drive me to create more educational episodes and to really think about how
00:23:19
Speaker
can we be the most effective in using positive reinforcement? There are ways to turn around the systems that you've been using. If you are relying solely on positive and negative punishment, there are quick and easy and fun ways to turn that ship around. Just like I did with my son with the picture taking, we can quickly
00:23:41
Speaker
Turn that around and be more proactive. And in fact, that's what I had to do later on in that day I had to be really proactive and set him up for success for the next time I wanted him to take a picture with his friends and it was effective so all is not lost if that is the parenting style or your classroom management style if using positive and negative punishment have been your go-tos Let's try to turn that ship around
00:24:08
Speaker
This next episode will be about turning that boat around and taking those punishment procedures we may have been using and finding simple strategies to make our environments more positive and have more embedded reinforcement. So natural opportunities for praise and reinforcement. I'll be choosing three of my favorite strategies to teach during staff and parent trainings that I have gotten the most positive feedback from. So I'm really excited to get that one out there for you. Until next time, to the positive.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:24:38
Speaker
Well, you did it! Another step closer to uncomplicating behavior. I'm so proud of you for taking the time to learn more about behavior analysis. Still interested in learning more? Or have a question or topic that you'd love some answers to? Head over to uncomplicatebehaviorpodcast.com for today's show notes, submit a question or topic you would love to hear about, and subscribe to my email and podcast so you never miss a new episode.
00:25:03
Speaker
I created this podcast for you and I want it to serve you well, so don't be afraid to reach out to me directly.