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S04 Episode 03: Neurodiversity in the Orchestral World
1.2k Plays11 months ago
There are many neurodiverse musicians working professionally in the classical music world, but are orchestras and universities doing enough to make auditioning and playing in an orchestra accessible? Two musicians with autism, Emelyne Bingham and Ryan Fox, as well as conductor Edwin Outwater, share their thoughts.
Cadence is the podcast where we talk about what music can tell us about the mind. Hosted by neuroscientist and musician Dr. Indre Viskontas, the fourth season will bring you the stories of people who experience music outside the bounds of the average listener, and who use music as a tool to be heard in a society in which they are often ignored.
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Transcript
The Timpanist's Unique Skills
00:00:02
Speaker
Someone once said, a timpanist must have the ears of a bat, the timing of an atomic clock, and nerves of steel. I love that scene because it's me.
Music and the Mind with Andrei Viscontis
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome back to Cadence, the podcast where we explore what music can tell us about the mind. I'm Andrei Viscontis. I'm a neuroscientist and musician curious about how music can illuminate what makes us human.
00:00:36
Speaker
This season on Cadence, we're telling the stories of people who experience music differently than the rest of us. Those who use music as a form of not only expression, but of communication. Of a way to be heard by a society that ignores or outright silences them.
Autism in Classical Music
00:00:54
Speaker
In this episode, we're going to talk about neurodiversity, and in particular, how two people with autism have navigated the classical music world, and how those of us who fall more into the average of the spectrum can help them. First, we'll hear from Dr. Emmeline Bingham. She's a conductor and bass player and the principal senior lecturer in music theory and cognition at the Blair School of Music at Vanderbilt University.
00:01:22
Speaker
Later in the episode, we'll also talk to conductor Edwin Outwater, who works really hard to make music accessible to all performers and listeners. And we'll also hear from Ryan Fox, a professional percussionist and one of my former students at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music, whose self-advocacy and self-awareness is truly impressive.
Childhood Music Discovery and Absolute Pitch
00:01:44
Speaker
For the most part, I'm going to let Lynn and Ryan speak without my interruption so that we can all listen, while Edwin and I will chat about what symphonies and large arts organizations can do to be more aware of and accommodating of people whose brains are quite different from the average.
00:02:12
Speaker
My mother was an amateur pianist and loved to practice and spent hours and hours practicing when I was a young child and I was just completely captivated by the piano and by her music making.
00:02:27
Speaker
And I was not the kind of kid, which I think most kids are this way too, but just listening and sitting there quietly was not an option. So for me it was a constant state of motion, of moving around and getting the full sensory experience of lying under the piano and putting my hands up on the sound board or embracing the instrument in some kind of way.
00:02:51
Speaker
Instead of being bored while my mom was doing something else, I actually embraced that opportunity to be fully involved with all of this possible senses simultaneously. One of the things my mom noticed at one time when she finished one of her practice sessions
00:03:09
Speaker
And she went into the kitchen to cook dinner. She heard snippets of the Beethoven sonata she'd just been practicing, coming from the room, even in the same key, the same pitches. And it turned out to be me practicing and playing what I had heard her play in the same key. And so I learned then that I had absolute pitch.
Musical Training and College Challenges
00:03:33
Speaker
We do know that that is actually the higher incidence of absolute pitch in the autism community than it is in the neurotypical population. So I thought I wanted to take lessons when I was three and my parents made me wait until I was six. I did finally take some lessons, but the structure was really different than what I was used to. I enjoyed it, but it was a lot of change for me. I had never had something so strict and structured as those piano lessons were.
00:03:59
Speaker
And when we moved to Tennessee, there was no option for me to study music. So I didn't really have the opportunity until I was in high school and more importantly in college. So as a bass player, I started playing when I was a sophomore in college and I was an engineering student.
00:04:18
Speaker
So there was this huge gap. I knew one of the things that my folks had were some recordings that were laying around and so I really logged onto this one set of recordings of all the Beethoven 9th symphonies and by the time I was eight or nine years old you could drop the needle.
00:04:33
Speaker
on any of the records, and I could tell you the symphony, and the movement, and the key, and all those kind of things. I was really captivated by this scherzo trio of the fifth, which has this big, fantastic double bass soli section, and I just absolutely loved that. But I didn't know what the instrument was that made that glorious sound, but I was able to get some PBS recordings and video footage of Arthur Fielder and the Boston Symphony.
00:05:00
Speaker
And so when the camera would pan over to the base section, I was able to identify that. And I used to watch the base section, and simply by watching and having absolute pitch, I understood how the instrument was tuned and how the fingering system worked. And I just kind of held all that knowledge in my head for a decade. And when I finally had an opportunity to actually physically hold and touch a base, that I was able to apply what I'd learned in starting with some study when I was in college there.
00:05:30
Speaker
I thought everyone learned that way. I thought everyone had absolute pitch. It wasn't until when I did my formal study in college that I learned that not everybody heard that way. And I was just completely transfixed with the whole thing. And so I think part of what we know about autism is that we tend to have really intense special interests. And when we lock onto those, it can be like trying to wrestle away a bone from a dog.
00:05:56
Speaker
I'm old enough that autism was not in the DSM until I was in my 30s. I knew I was different and I didn't know how and I didn't know why. I was very fortunate enough to be surrounded by a wonderful group of friends and families in my neighborhood that just treated me as kind of the odd kid.
00:06:17
Speaker
When I was in high school, I don't know if you maybe had this experience, but they had these superlatives, you know, best dressed and friendliest and all that kind of stuff. And so I was voted as most individualistic. And my friends all teased me by saying, what that really means is that you're the weirdest kid in the school, but we like you. Those kind of things were really well handled and were wonderful. But I had grown up with this particular group of people. And so immediately going to college and being in a new situation, it was a whole different ball of wax.
00:06:46
Speaker
Part of me wishes I'd had a diagnosis that would have helped me and understand that it's not a character flaw. It's not a personal fault. I wasn't raised by aliens. It was just a matter that there are differences and that all of us need to be more thoughtful and patient in encountering those differences.
00:07:05
Speaker
when I was in undergraduate school and I started playing, I got this job in an orchestra and my teachers were thinking, wow, this kid's got a lot of talent and she could have a great career ahead of her, but we've got to teach her some basic social things like introducing yourself. So they would say to me, Lynn, you've got to learn how to introduce yourself. So when you meet somebody for the first time, you look them in the eye, you stick out your hand and you say, hi, my name is Lynn and you shake their hand.
00:07:32
Speaker
They would say, now let's practice. And whenever I would encounter one of these faculty members in the hall, they would do that for me. And I slowly learned these types of things. So I wish that I had known also that there were these expectations and that I wish I had had more, I guess, variety in the people that I was around all the time, that they would expect those things and sort of teach me these things as well.
00:07:53
Speaker
One of the things that I feel that's really sort of driven where my career trajectory is partially boredom, because I loved playing the bass and it was great, but orchestras are not great places for people with very active minds, I think, especially playing an instrument where you often count many measures of rest in a row, and so your mind tends to wander in.
Fascination with Conducting
00:08:15
Speaker
One of the things I was always very curious about was we'd be playing a piece that we'd played many, many times and have a brand new conductor. And even from the very first gesture for the downbeat of the work, it sounded like a completely different orchestra. And I was fascinated with this relationship between gesture
00:08:33
Speaker
and sound and so it sort of drove me to want to A, be a conductor and two, also to sort of study that relationship. We know that music is a multimodal stimulus and behavior and it involves the motor system and the auditory system and the visual system and all those things together.
00:08:52
Speaker
When we look at that in young children, we see they don't sit still when they listen either. They tend to sing along or they dance or they move and those kind of things. And I think we tend to sort of school that out of children as they progress through music study. And I think that's one thing that I personally never really lost. So for me, music making is all of those things. It's one simultaneous and glorious process.
00:09:19
Speaker
what sort of led me to study that on a more formal level and to answer some of those questions that I had. That being said, this constant multimodal stimulus and this process that's happening all the time doesn't always lend itself well to the cookie cutter expectations that we have of musicians, particularly in the classical music world.
00:09:41
Speaker
either as an orchestral performer or as a regular stage performer. So I think there are certainly some obstacles that are there. There are some social construct obstacles as well. Classical music has always been sort of a plaything of the wealthy and elite. And so there is a series of expectations that are part of that social construct about personality and behavior and
00:10:05
Speaker
just general personhood that are, I think, sometimes those of us who fall outside of normal or neurotypicality, people find us, I think, sometimes challenging. And so I think there are those kind of obstacles about the social construct of what is expected. And those things include things like race and gender and ethnicity as well. And so it's sort of a very narrow window that I think only encompasses a very special group of people.
00:10:35
Speaker
So I think we have social construct obstacles, and we also have some neurotypicality examples as well.
Classical Music's Cultural Shifts
00:10:45
Speaker
I think we all sort of have these ideas about what a musician is supposed to be, right? And particularly in the Western music model. You think about conducting, for one, is very, very subjective.
00:10:57
Speaker
You'll have two musicians sitting side by side and one person will think the conductor is fabulous and the other person will think completely the opposite, right? So it's very subjective. Symphony orchestras are run largely by boards of people who tend to be wealthy, tend to be that particular profile, and who don't really understand music making, who may have limited experience with someone with a disability because they are large donors and money speaks in that business that they tend to kind of pull the strings.
00:11:30
Speaker
I think just opening people's minds to what the idea of neurodiversity is, which is something that is outside a particular construct and so that there is a variation and it doesn't mean that someone is deficient, it just means difference. So it's sort of adopting this social model of difference as opposed to the medical model of deficit.
00:11:55
Speaker
is a cultural shift that I think has to occur before we can really start penetrating the walls of those boxes. There's so much more work that needs to be done in classical music education and performance spaces when it comes to making things accessible and providing accommodations for people who need them.
00:12:16
Speaker
As I mentioned at the
Blind Auditions and Diversity
00:12:17
Speaker
top of the show, traditionally, classical orchestras are thought to be relatively objective in terms of how they make decisions on who gets to play. But there are still aspects of the audition context that need work. I talked to conductor Edwin Outwater on how orchestras are set up and how the audition process typically works.
00:12:38
Speaker
What is the audition process, at least in the U.S.? Sometime in the 1980s, just in the interest of not discriminating or having any racial or gender bias. And this is actually based on some lawsuits, as I recall, that auditions went behind a screen, at least for the initial rounds. So one thing a lot of your listeners may not know is that for orchestras, when I hear, for instance, an oboe audition, I'm not seeing that person.
00:13:01
Speaker
And I'm only hearing the sound and the visual is behind the screen. In some orchestras, the screen persists all the way until the higher. In some orchestras, the screen comes down in the final round. Though I would say in all cases, there's a step, maybe a trial week in which a player will play with the orchestra either for a week to finalize the process, to see how they interact with colleagues in real time.
00:13:22
Speaker
And then in a professorship, there's a tenure process for a full-time orchestra where the person will play for a year or two years, and there'll be regular meetings about how this person's progress is doing, and then that person will eventually be granted tenure or not. So even though there is an anonymous portion of the audition, certainly it becomes not anonymous eventually. So do you think that these blinded auditions have been successful in terms of decreasing discrimination by gender or race?
00:13:51
Speaker
There's a lot of studies on it, and in fact, it was even used in some business schools as a successful form. So I think certainly I don't want to speak about the facts offhand, where I don't have them, that you can easily find them. There's still plenty of work to go as far as perhaps women in leadership roles and also ethnic diversity throughout the orchestra.
00:14:11
Speaker
And these problems are complicated and they go back to education provided way before the audition process, even from childhood, since these instruments are so hard to play. Like who gets access to classical music education at a certain time early in life so they can prepare to take these auditions for a period of years. So there's been some good work done. There's still plenty of work to do, I would say, as far as that's concerned.
00:14:31
Speaker
What do you think about neurodiversity? What does that mean to you? Do you get a sense that there's something that orchestras could do better or already do better to encourage more neurodiversity among their players?
00:14:44
Speaker
I like the word neurodiversity because there's just so many forms of it. And the word diversity is something that I can really get my head around. And I think any person in orchestra, it's an incredible feat to get in. And I think I've met people who might be described as neurodiverse through my time, especially working in schools. Now that I work at the San Francisco Conservatory, I see more neurodiversity than I have before. I don't know if there's a lot of obvious neurodiversity in orchestras that I've seen.
00:15:12
Speaker
though it may well exist. And whatever that means, that's a subject for further discussion, obviously. But it's more clear to me at the educational level, I've come across it more often. We learn from players who play differently than we do, who approach playing differently than we do. So if we're emotional, we learn from the cerebral player. Or whatever subtle mix, someone has a sense of humor, someone is very laser focused. And I think that could be extended into what you might call the neurodiverse world in a very interesting way, actually.
00:15:39
Speaker
I would say also where I have seen a lot of explicit progress are concerts that are designed for people who might be identified as or self-identify as neurodiverse because also in classical music you have to sit silently and not move and there are also rules of being the audience. So in the last few years I've seen a lot more what we might call relaxed concerts where people can make noise or the rules of behavior for what it's worth are set aside and people can experience music in a way that feels comfortable to them in a relaxed environment.
00:16:09
Speaker
And for classic music, kind of like watching a tennis match or a golf match, the environment, I wouldn't describe it as relaxed because the music kind of functions on silence and silence is important. Just for the concentration of the musicians, just like hitting a golf swing, you don't want to have people yelling and screaming or tennis. They ask the audience to be quiet before the serve. That is an issue in classic music particularly. But that's a shame because music can be so therapeutic and it is so primal.
00:16:35
Speaker
And so there have now and continue to be more and more what we call relaxed concerts where there is a space for people to experience music in any way that they want, which I think is new and wonderful. And it would be interesting to see that applied to an orchestra as well, to the players themselves.
00:16:50
Speaker
So, according to Edwin, there are some concessions being made for accessibility for both players and patrons of the orchestras, like these relaxed concerts. But what else can orchestras do to accommodate neurodiversity in their musicians as well? What does that accessibility look like?
00:17:09
Speaker
I talked to Ryan Fox, who's a percussionist with autism, and who also happened to be a student of mine at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music, about his thoughts on how orchestras, and especially auditions, can be updated.
Ryan Fox: Autism and Percussion
00:17:23
Speaker
Ryan, can you tell us about your background and your journey into music and how you became a percussionist?
00:17:33
Speaker
I started to study music when I was three years old. My mom signed me up for piano lessons. I remember learning about note values, like big round whole note and half note. My teacher let me bang on pots on her floor to get the rhythms.
00:17:57
Speaker
The counting was actually more interesting than the pitches, although I did enjoy my piano recitals because it was fun to be in the spotlight. I also took single lessons for a little while.
00:18:14
Speaker
Then a piano player I knew started giving me basic drum lessons, and I got to play multiple drums at once. That was fun. When I was nine, I signed up for a summer jazz band. All I wanted to do was learn and help out, but after the first rehearsal, the drummer quit.
00:18:39
Speaker
I was in way over my head on a full drum set, but I started taking lessons the next day and caught a pass. My favorite part of lessons was a thing called treating aids, where he could play eight bars and then I played eight. Back and forth four hours. We made things up and jammed. It was so awesome.
00:19:07
Speaker
I played in jazz bands from 4th grade to 10th grade. Then suddenly my teacher cancelled jazz bands. My mom found an orchestra for me to play in at the city near us.
00:19:22
Speaker
I loved it so much that by my senior year I was playing with three youth orchestras, including the top group at Seattle Youth Symphony. I also won first place at State on Tiffany.
00:19:38
Speaker
The more I focused on orchestras, the happier I was. I went to the Chloridev Tempe Masterclass in Kansas City and met real professional tempinists. One of the instructors introduced me to Mike Cuso, Principal Tempinist at Seattle Symphony.
00:19:59
Speaker
and I started taking lessons with him. I knew I wanted to study music in college. I earned my bachelors of music from Central Washington University. There I did the usual marching band
00:20:17
Speaker
orchestra classes and jazz combos. And I also started going to summer orchestra festivals to Jonathan Haase's percussion course on Broadway in New York City and played in musical bits, which was all really great. After graduation, I also joined a community orchestra in Seattle. Then,
00:20:45
Speaker
I decided that if I wanted a real orchestra career, I needed a master's degree. I earned my at the San Francisco Conservatory of Music. There I was surrounded by experts and serious music performers and studying with top percussionists at San Francisco Symphony to learn how to be an orchestra performer. It was amazing.
00:21:11
Speaker
I now perform with three orchestras where I get paid to play. Two as a percussionist and one where I'm principal timpani. I am living hell to be a professional musician and moving my way up to my dream job with Seattle Symphony. The reason I decided to devote my life to symphonic percussion is that it's truly a beautiful art.
00:21:39
Speaker
and it pays a livable wage and there is social structure. In fact, the whole symphony environment is really structured, including who you're allowed to talk to and when. The settings are beautiful and the music is spectacular. Can you tell me a little bit about how autism affected your training as a musician?
Autistic Strengths in Music
00:22:06
Speaker
I think percussion must have always been my destiny. Someone once said a timbinist must have the ears of a bat, the timing of an atomic clock, and nerves of steel. I left that saying because it's me. My autism has wired my brain so I do have perfect pitch, which is a long-term memory gift.
00:22:33
Speaker
Autism also somehow gives me a very solid sense of time. I can play something at exactly 76 beats per minute. For example, off the top of my head, without needing a metronome.
00:22:50
Speaker
So, sometimes autism is in strength. In my undergrad years, the ear training and interval training were super easy for me. We had a software program called Magamit with lessons that were hard for lots of students, but I just zoomed through them. In my timpani classes, I finished all the interval skills in two lessons that usually took the other students almost a year.
00:23:20
Speaker
The biggest challenge for me in music and other things is finding the right teacher. Some great teachers are just not great at teaching me. It can take a lot of work to find the best match, but if I don't do it, I won't be able to learn.
00:23:40
Speaker
I need instruction to be organized so I now know where topics are going. I also need the economy of speech. I signal to noise, you might say, or I get lost in the words. And I need things to be concrete.
00:24:00
Speaker
Some of my private teachers would say, Ryan, you just have to relax. Well, what does that mean? I don't know how to relax or I would do it. I needed to be shown how, which muscle groups, posture, and breathing.
00:24:20
Speaker
Finally, I took a yoga class in the PE department where they showed me how to relax inch by inch. That really helped. It's not just the method though, it's also the instructor. In my student years, I kept finding that my teachers were not as structured as I needed in how they taught.
00:24:46
Speaker
They expected me to pick things up by osmosis or with abstract feedback. My brain doesn't do that. By no new me, I found a totally wonderful teacher from Japan with a doctorate in remember. She was super concrete about coaching me and moved my hands to the right positions.
00:25:11
Speaker
I spent three entire summers working six hours every day with her to master my technique on malleable percussion. Still today, those aren't my favorite instruments, but I persevered, and I am super grateful for her caring and help. Another part of learning for an artistic student is the social environment with students.
00:25:36
Speaker
I like a more authoritative style from instructors. I welcome authority when other learners might not. It leads to predictability and helps me feel comfortable. Teaching assistants who want to be cool and pals and who have no training in how to teach can create environments I find stressful.
00:26:03
Speaker
The second critical thing for me as a person with autism is mastering how I learn and helping others understand it. I attended a great summer program where I learned that for people with disabilities, the best instruction comes when the student knows how he learns and asks for what he needs.
00:26:26
Speaker
They taught us how to advocate for ourselves, including reaching out to instructors, explaining our disability, and sharing what things we must do in order to learn. I loved this idea so much that I started using it right away.
00:26:45
Speaker
What you've described is really interesting to me because I feel like a lot of students, even those who are more typical, would actually benefit from the kind of concreteness and clarity that you need. So let's talk a little bit about the audition circuit.
Auditioning vs. Performing
00:27:08
Speaker
Why don't we start with what the difference is between auditioning and performing with an orchestra?
00:27:16
Speaker
Great question. Taking auditions is a unique experience. I first learned this at the Chlorideff Timpani Masterclass. Auditioning is not like performing with the orchestra. It's a weird skill set and really a solo performance. Sort of like how a job interview is different from actually working every day at a company.
00:27:44
Speaker
or percussionists, it's like being a traveling circus without a logistics team. I've learned that every orchestra has its own way of doing auditions. Some orchestras are super organized
00:28:04
Speaker
prompt, friendly, proactive for weeks in advance, great communicators, transparent in sharing information about which excerpts will be requested at which round, and helpful by sending advance lists of exactly which brand-slash-model of percussion instrument will be provided.
00:28:30
Speaker
They offer snacks and private warm-up spaces, are responsible about giving prompt, helpful feedback after the audition, and basically they're fully committed to helping candidates relax and do their best. Others don't value these things. Auditions for percussion can involve a lot of hauling instruments.
00:28:57
Speaker
I'm not sure audition committees understand the full picture of this. I have to bring a gigantic suitcase with drums, stands, tambourines, triangles, sticks, mallets, and all kinds of supplies, even though the orchestra provides the really large instruments for me.
00:29:21
Speaker
I am routinely charged excessive overweight luggage fees. I'm breathing heavily by the time I get into the audition room just from hauling everything, especially if the stairs are involved. The choreography of setting up my instruments quickly can feel overwhelming, even though I practice it at home. Sometimes the practice help a little, other times they don't.
00:29:50
Speaker
warm-up rooms and on-deck rooms can be crowded. I don't like feeling anxious about competing with the other candidates for who plays the best. That's the whole point.
Inclusivity in Orchestras
00:30:03
Speaker
But there are lots of things about the world in general and people's behaviors that you may not realize are extra hard for people on the spectrum. Sensory inputs can be troublesome.
00:30:18
Speaker
While usually I appreciate why it's space, sometimes all too quiet audition rooms can be unnerving. One room was so quiet that the committee could hear every movement of setting up my now literates in music.
00:30:38
Speaker
They probably also heard me breathing. It was unnerving. As someone with autism, I have a hard time imagining what someone else is thinking. This means I can't imagine what an audition committee is thinking.
00:30:55
Speaker
One thing that has really stayed with me as I audition around the country is memories of those orchestras who demonstrate true caring about neurodiverse auditioners. I will always remember the friendly welcome test team that used my name, invited me to the snack table, and offered to pay for my parking.
00:31:21
Speaker
Another committee handed me a map of the building with my destinations marked in numerical order. One proctor called my entire instrument suitcase across the building for me while I carried only my instrument and its stand. These acts of kindness helped me to relax and play my best.
00:31:45
Speaker
A lot of these things, these accommodations that you're asking for are not burdensome. They're not hard on the people who need to do them, but they present the difference between you being able to do this job well and not. So let's go to the tips. So do you have any tips for orchestras on how their audition processes could improve and become more inclusive?
00:32:09
Speaker
Yes, I do have thoughts. I think orchestras can be great leaders in inclusion for society. They already have preparation programs based on skin color. But I also think
00:32:25
Speaker
Being welcoming to those with disabilities is important. I may not speak for all neurodiverse audition candidates, but for me the audition process is frequently carried out in ways that are not friendly. It feels a little like psych out or gotcha.
00:32:46
Speaker
But I believe thoughtful, intentional preparation could help all candidates feel included and ready to do their best.
00:32:57
Speaker
I am currently serving on the Seattle Tacoma International Airport Accessibility Advisory Committee, which is a model for thinking about ways to welcome diverse visitor terms. I encourage orchestras to visit their website for ideas.
00:33:17
Speaker
Resources on principles of universal design and universal instruction can also be very helpful. Where I would start in welcoming diverse auditioners is with the contact person and initial emails.
00:33:34
Speaker
It's helpful if the orchestra can designate one person from the beginning for continuity in communicating, and answers questions within a day or so, writing in clear sentences without jargon.
00:33:50
Speaker
Some orchestras require me to call someone if I have questions, but I am very uncomfortable talking on the phone with people I don't know. Email is better. While it's not autism-related, I will speak on behalf of percussionists and request a list of exactly which instruments will be provided in the warm-up rooms and audition room.
00:34:17
Speaker
Percussionists may be the only people who have to audition art instruments they've never touched before. Everyone else brings their usual instrument from home. I would appreciate a chance to find identical local instruments for practicing before traveling to the artesian city.
00:34:39
Speaker
Please share information about nearby hotels, transportation and food. If you can let me know from the beginning why these and times the various rounds will be held, I can study ticket options right away.
00:34:55
Speaker
telling me ahead of time which excerpts will be requested in each round helps me focus, organize my music folder ahead of time instead of on audition day, and lets me relax a little. It would be great if orchestras could provide the maps of the buildings, a schedule for my day and good signage.
00:35:21
Speaker
If they have helpers with matching name tags or colored shirts, I will know who to approach for guidance. These steps make orchestras feel friendly to people like me. I have other ideas as well, and I welcome people to reach out to me at variety.fox at sfcm.edu.
00:35:47
Speaker
This leads to a final thought. Heinlein's dream is to perform with an orchestra. I have worked hard for decades to be ready and worthy of the honor to perform beautiful music that makes people's lives better.
00:36:04
Speaker
I have overcome many aspects of my autism to live my dream. Because of my disability though, deep inside there is a little part of me that is somewhat afraid to win an audition because then it would likely mean joining an organization that I not know how to relate to me or offer a warm welcome.
00:36:28
Speaker
The audition process should help me get a sense of how the orchestra would be a good place to work. Anything an orchestra can do to reach out to those who respond differently to the world would be wonderful if we'd left the audition committee, hear competent, relaxed musicians delivering the best.
00:36:56
Speaker
At the Sam Slope Conservatory of Music, Ryan was exceptional in my view, both in terms of his talent and skill and dedication, but also in his ability to advocate for himself. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to him. But I want to make it clear, people who are autistic are incredibly diverse even amongst themselves.
00:37:17
Speaker
There is a ton of variability in terms of the things that autistic people might need or might do well, what kinds of accommodations work best for them. So Ryan is by no means speaking for all autistic people, just like Dr. Bingham wasn't either. From these case studies, we can learn a little bit more about some general accommodations that might help many people.
00:37:40
Speaker
It seems to me that Ryan's accessibility requests are fairly easily accommodated. So sometimes I wonder why orchestras, all of them, don't take those simple extra steps. I imagine it's largely because they just don't know. I would think that orchestras really, as a group, want to be as inclusive as possible. After all, they're trying to find the best players that they can for each position.
00:38:07
Speaker
So excluding anyone from the talent pool for something that can be easily accommodated just isn't in their interest. So my hope with this episode is to help both the public and leaders in the industry understand what are some simple ways that they can make their audition process accessible to all. Here's Lynn with some final words on why orchestras were historically exclusive and why that needs to change.
00:38:34
Speaker
I think organizations that have been largely funded for and by the wealthy elite are realizing that diversity is an important part of what they do. And I think they're trying to stretch those boundaries without changing the model. I think until we see some change in the model, it's going to be very, very difficult.
00:38:54
Speaker
It's difficult, for instance, one of the most important things that we can do for our children is to show them representation in multiple ways. And so if you look at the classical music world now, their efforts to be inclusive pretty much stop at a sensory-friendly performance. So my question is, well, why isn't every performance sensory-friendly so that one might have a choice to which concert they'd like to go to?
00:39:22
Speaker
But it's really hard for children to not see someone like them. I think every child needs to be able to look on a stage or in any kind of job or any situation and be able to visualize themselves there. They should be able to visualize themselves as a conductor or as a dancer or as an oboist.
00:39:42
Speaker
But without that representation, I think that we're sending a subtle message that you're not right for that. You don't fit that mold. And so you need to find something else to do. So I think some of these subconscious messages that we're sending from lack of representation are really holding back any kind of change.
00:40:05
Speaker
I hope that eventually our perception of what it is to be human is broadened and becomes more inclusive, but not inclusive by following just a specific definition that inclusivity is much broader than just saying, oh, we have to make sure that we have representation from one of each of these different categories.
00:40:27
Speaker
in our office or place of employment and that it's beyond that, it's more than that. And that representation is important, but it has to be organic and it has to be not targeted in that way. Thanks for listening, and thank you to Ryan and Emily for sharing their experiences with us.
00:40:54
Speaker
and to Edwin for continuing to advocate for people who find it may be difficult to advocate for themselves. Season 4 of Cadence is created by me, Dr. Indre Viscontis.
00:41:06
Speaker
It is produced by Ireland Meacham and Matthew Rubenstein at Audiation. It is mixed by Matt Noble with music from Rian Sheehan from his album Stories from Elsewhere. You can find us online at cadence.show. You can also get in touch with us at cadencemind at gmail.com. You can find me on Instagram at Dr. Indre Directs. Cadence is generously supported by the Germanicos Foundation.
00:41:37
Speaker
Audiation