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Lauren Cannell: From running marathons to struggling to get to her front gate.
89 Plays5 months ago
Lauren Cannell is a story of hope for the 3.6 million Australians living with chronic pain.
Lauren shares her journey from being an active, high-achieving individual to facing daily struggles with pain that shrank her world. She discusses the emotional and physical toll of her experience with pain and challenges within the healthcare system. Lauren's turning point towards recovery was learning about the science of pain.
As a TEDx speaker with a talk titled "A New Way To Think About Pain" and the recipient of the Consumer Advocate of the Year at the Pinnacles Pain Sector Awards in 2024, Lauren offers invaluable insights and encouragement for anyone navigating similar struggles with pain.
DISCLAIMER - This podcast is for educational purposes only. The views expressed in this podcast do not constitute medical advice and are general in nature. You should obtain specific advice from a qualified health professional before acting on any of the information within this podcast.
Resources:
Why Things Hurt | TEDxAdelaide | Lorimer Moseley
A new way to think about pain | Lauren Cannell | TEDxHobart
Book a free clarity call with Lachlan Townend
Follow Lachlan on LinkedIn or Instagram
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Transcript
Transition from Athlete to Pain Struggles
00:00:00
Speaker
I really went from running marathons to struggling to get to my front
00:00:58
Speaker
magic pill or or the magic procedure that's just going to make it stop. Were there times when you felt like a little bit exploited? I can look at it and see, gee, I'm not.
00:01:12
Speaker
what What really kicked things off was that I i went to see it. And he did the whole thing where he talked to me for a long time. And I was thinking, come on, mate. But he heard from me and fixed me. But at the end of it, he said, I want you to go and have a look at this TED Talk. A much happier,
00:01:42
Speaker
might you might have no value right now, but there's always hope and and just start taking steps forward.
Lauren Canell: Advocate for Pain Awareness
00:01:52
Speaker
Today's guest is Lauren Canell, TEDx speaker, Ironman and ultramarathon finisher and consumer advocate of the year at the Pinnacle's Pain Sector Awards. Her story is a story of hope for the 3.6 million people in Australia living with pain.
00:02:12
Speaker
This podcast is for educational purposes only. The views expressed in this podcast do not constitute medical advice and are general in nature. You should obtain specific advice from a qualified health professional before acting on any of the information within this podcast.
00:02:29
Speaker
ah Lauren, one thing that I've discussed with you is that I believe that people that have experienced pain are experts in their own right and that's why I want to do you as a guest on the show and you've also done a TED Talk and the theoretical side of things you know also very well better than many health professionals. So thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you for yeah giving up your time and and sharing your experience so that we can bring hope to other people that ah were in a similar situation as you. I thought, what better way to start a show like this than having a story of recovery and hope for the people that are listening. So I would like you to take us back first, like any good story, back to paint the picture of your life prior to pain, if you can for us.
Embracing Endurance: Ironman and Ultra-Running
00:03:24
Speaker
Sure. Well, I was a relatively active person, always have been, so I was involved in a lot of things like triathlon and running events and, you know, I've kind of thrown my hat in the ring with with anything that came up that my friends wanted to do, go and run marathons together and that kind of stuff. um I was a police officer. I've been a police officer since I was 22.
00:03:54
Speaker
um and and been an operational police officer working in a lot of different areas. And I was a mother as well. So I had a fairly active and social life prior to this. Yeah, cool. tell it Tell us how many kids do you have? I have a daughter and she's she's actually now 28 years old. so yeah Yeah, wow.
00:04:20
Speaker
So you were juggling obviously your career, your daughter and all these like active pursuits that you had. How, what's the, what's your biggest feat in the um active pursuits?
00:04:35
Speaker
I've competed in a couple of Ironman events in Australia and New Zealand. And I guess the one I'm most proud of is that I did a hundred kilometer run which was to raise money for legacy for tasma the families of um police officers who'd passed. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, that's, look, I struggled to do 10 kilometres, so um hats off to you. um And so, an Iron Man, so have you got the little Iron Man tattoo on your leg?
00:05:10
Speaker
No, I didn't go that far. I only went as far as having an Ironman sticker on my car. Yeah, cool.
00:05:21
Speaker
Now that's, look, it's something that's, yeah, i would I would love to think that I'd be capable of doing that and and to see that I have a friend that's sort of badgering me into doing a half Ironman and that scares, the sort the thought of it scares me.
00:05:36
Speaker
It's an amazing effort um and thanks for that because it gives us a bit of an idea of you know what life was like prior um because pain can have some really devastating effects and it's nice to have a bit of a snapshot of of where you've come from um and and nothing sort of paints a picture more than the physical pursuits um and how that can be taken away when you have pain.
00:06:05
Speaker
so Tell us, how did you develop pain?
From Accident to Chronic Pain
00:06:10
Speaker
um Well, i in 2013, I had a brain hemorrhage. I was at the gym and a sudden movement caused a hemorrhage in my brain and that had quite a long recovery. It took me about six months to sort of get back on deck from that. But around 18 months later, I was actually training for an Ironman event and I was cycling on the highway here in Tassie and got hit from behind by a vehicle. And um that um accident caused quite a few injuries to my body, obviously, and again, quite a long recovery. And initially I thought I'd recovered reasonably well in terms of ah physical recovery. But I noticed that as I was trying to get back into physical activity,
00:07:03
Speaker
Every injury I got seemed to last longer and have a disproportionate level of pain um for what the injury was. yeah And um eventually I got to the point where the pain just didn't go away. So I got to the point where I was having pain in my body every day. And it wasn't always in the same spot, but generally it was in the lower part of my body, sort of from the waist down.
00:07:32
Speaker
and Um, and I guess I didn't understand what was happening. Um, and I couldn't pinpoint where it was all coming from. I just knew that I was in pain that I couldn't control each day. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. The, um, when you have a motor vehicle accident or, or something of a sort, which, I mean, you were on a bike, did you say? Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah, that that can be a very traumatic event in and of itself. What were your injuries if you don't mind me asking? um I had shuddered my right elbow and had several breaks in my lower arm and wrist. And I had quite a few um sort of tissue injuries down my right side because I landed, I was thrown from the bike and landed on that side.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, so I was actually flying to Melbourne for to see a specialist to kind of reconstruct my my arm. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I was in hospital for several weeks. And then, you know, the the sort of recovery continues once you leave hospital. And I've had about five surgeries, I think on my arm now. And I've got permanent impairment there, but I can certainly, you know, I can use it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And where where did you develop the pain? Um, interestingly, it wasn't in my arm. It was mostly down my legs. And, um, the injuries that I was getting in my, you know, through that recovery period were things like, um,
00:09:22
Speaker
pain in my ankles, pain in my knees, problems with my hips and um the occasional stress fracture and that sort of thing. Because I was returning to running and perhaps using that as a bit of an outlet to deal with the trauma that I had been through. So I was running a lot. yeah um and And eventually that was leading to injuries and injuries were leading to more pain.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, so the exercise was like a bit of a coping mechanism for you. Definitely. And then obviously dealing with the underlying issues was probably part of your your your way to recovery, but we'll we'll touch on that later. um Tell us a little bit, if you can, and and paint a little picture about how the impact of pain on your life um because as I said it can be very devastating and many people will be sort of maybe in that position you were when they're listening to this at the low points. So if you could yeah give give us a picture of what that looked like and the effects that it had on your life. Overall I all um mean the accident had quite a significant impact because
00:10:41
Speaker
ah the The injury to my arm meant that I could no longer be an operational police officer because I couldn't use a firearm. It was an injury to my dominant arm. And I just couldn't get back into a position where um I could safely or feel that I could safely operate as an operational police officer. So my career to trajectory changed, which was a huge impact, but also The pain itself impacted my ability to be as social as I was before.
00:11:18
Speaker
to um yeah it my My life revolved around the things that I loved doing outside of work, to be honest. So I was always planning for the next event, the next holiday destination to do a marathon or something like that. And all of that was sort of slowly being shut down.
00:11:40
Speaker
So to me, it just about felt like a big spiral. And I was trying my hardest to claw my way back through it, but it it it was always one step forward, two steps back.
Impact of Pain on Career and Social Life
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, it can be an an awful experience. You know, I often say that, you know, your, your life sort of shrinks in around you and, and at least your perception of, and your expectations of what is possible now start to start to shrink. And obviously that took a big toll on your identity as your career also, but also your, your physical pursuits and your passion. And, um, maybe, I don't know what you, what you would use to describe your,
00:12:23
Speaker
you're eagerness to have these physical pursuits, but I think they're they're pretty crazy. um And and you you got to be quite relentless in that um those pursuits. So I was wondering um if you could go into a little bit more specifics around what it was that you were able to do at the the the very I guess the bottom of this experience, the low of this experience, physical both physically, but also from a day-to-day perspective.
00:13:00
Speaker
and It was a pretty black time. um ah Ultimately, I got to the point where I couldn't do much at all physically. I i mean, I was struggling just to go to work. And um so I was doing a desk job.
00:13:19
Speaker
And I would be incredibly anxious and nervous every day about going into the office because I wasn't sure how much pain I would be in that day. If I could last the day, if I could so tolerate the pain, could I go into this meeting that was going to last an hour because I'm not sure how much pain I'm going to endure just having to sit there.
00:13:44
Speaker
um So that became difficult and and I ended up missing long periods of work and really got to the point where I thought I should probably quit because I'm becoming a burden in the workplace and I felt like I didn't offer any value. At home I struggled to, and I use this phrase a lot, but but i really I really went from running marathons to struggling to get to my front gate, which is about a kilometer from the house. I would struggle to to walk a kilometer and I would actually get nervous trying to do it because I thought, what if I got 500 metres from home and I was in too much pain to get back? So my world became incredibly small. I spent a lot of time
00:14:41
Speaker
just trying to self-diagnose and understand why I was in so much pain. So I was constantly researching on the internet. I couldn't sleep because I was so distressed about it. And I'd be up at three in the morning, Googling symptoms, writing emails to specialists, just trying to get answers about the pain that I was in. Yeah, wow. Yeah.
00:15:08
Speaker
it's such a it It is such a distressing time and it and it gives us a huge picture of ah what what pain can do in a person's life. And you know from going from ultra marathons and Ironmans to struggling to just walk down and the road or to the letterbox and and yeah sitting through meetings and those kinds of things, it must have been very disheartening for you.
00:15:36
Speaker
what kind of Paint a picture of your um your personality type because you know ah it's not everyone that runs ultra marathons. What's your personality? I think I probably can relate to it in many ways, but just give give us a snapshot of like your kind of personality type. Well, I'm definitely a type A personality. I'm sure that probably comes through. but You know, I've always been a high achiever, whether it was academically or, um you know, aiming for for um athletic goals. And um for me, it's always been about, okay, I've achieved that, what can I do next? yeah Like, what's the next level of crazy that I can go to? and And, you know, outside of work, I was doing degrees at university and all that kind of stuff. So I was always trying to achieve.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah. And this experience felt like it stripped all that away from me because I wasn't like i I wasn't achieving anything. I couldn't do anything physically. I was struggling at work. There's no way I could entertain study. I mean, I could hardly just go and visit a friend. I couldn't get answers. Um, and, and I just felt for the first time in my life, I've, I just felt like a burden.
00:17:04
Speaker
And like i my life had no value. Yeah. The reason I asked that question is because, you know, the type A personality and the perfectionist type personality, they the psychological distress that comes along with pain is humongous because that they identify as someone that is is tough and strong and capable and to have that sort of fall around you can be very distressing. And so, and and I find that perhaps they stigmatize it more than other groups. um They don't want to share it. um So the fact that you've come through that and able to share it and to to provide hope for people is is just awesome. So we really, I really appreciate that. And I'm sure everyone listening does as well. Thanks for doing that.
Critiquing the Healthcare System
00:17:58
Speaker
I want to ask a question around
00:18:00
Speaker
the health system at the time. um Hopefully there's some healthcare care providers listening on that can learn how to get, how to treat people like you going through these situations. So yeah, if you could describe the health system um and its role in your care and where it was helpful and where it wasn't, that would be awesome. Sure. Well, I mean, generally the first port of call is to go and see the JP.
00:18:30
Speaker
And shortly before this happened, I'd actually moved. So prior to this, I've had a GP for for many years, but ah I relocated just before the accident. And that meant I didn't have a local GP. So I was visiting whoever I could get into. And what I found was that I didn't have enough time to relay the position. I didn't have enough time to relay my history.
00:18:59
Speaker
I could say, oh, you know, I've had an accident and now this is what's happening. But there wasn't that, you know, extensive background knowledge of who I am as a whole person. yeah And so typically when I would go to GPs with complaints about pain, they would try and treat the particular area of pain. yeah um You know, they might try and look at it as as an issue with um ah ITB friction syndrome, if I had pain in my knee, or, you know, they might look at it as an Achilles problem if I had pain in my ankle, but no one was looking at it as, at me as a whole person. And I say that now in hindsight, but at the time I was on the same page as them. I thought I've got an injury here. I need to treat that. yeah Now I know a lot more about pain, but at the time that they were the steps that I'd go through.
00:20:00
Speaker
And ultimately, you know, I'd get pain relief. I ended up on a number of medications, quite strong medications um that I was taking every day. um ah You know, I was on a particular medication for nerve pain, and then I'd have a breakthrough pain medication when the pain got really bad.
00:20:27
Speaker
um And then they were talking about you knife patches that I'd wear every day to keep the pain at an acceptable level. And ultimately none of it was getting me anywhere. I saw surgeons, I had nerve blocks. um I had a number of procedures done to my body during that time.
00:20:47
Speaker
which none of them, I'd get short term relief, which is probably a placebo um and think, oh, okay, I think that's worked, but I'd spiral back and and end up in the same position. Yeah. And obviously like, I mean, I can imagine that the, the distress grows as failed treatments after failed treatment treatments and broken promises and, um,
00:21:14
Speaker
Yeah, was that your experience? Did you find that that process quite distressing? Absolutely, because you each time you get put onto a different healthcare provider, and and I went to many, um you'd feel a sense of hope that maybe maybe this person's going to be my answer, because you really want you want the the the magic pill or or the magic procedure that's just going to make it stop, right? That's what you're looking for. yeah And you want that to happen pretty quick. Like when you go and have a procedure or you take a new medication or whatever it is, you want it to work pretty quick. yeah um and And like I said, you'd go through this, um you know, in this circle of having hope and having something done and thinking, okay, I think I'm there, I think I'm there. And, you know, you'd drop down again. And and that loop,
00:22:13
Speaker
just continued over and over again for several years um yeah until you until you just start losing faith in the system. Totally. Yeah, I think that the system is broken in in many areas in that regard. And you know you're on the revolving door of healthcare professionals. And look, they they most have really good intentions, but they're in a system where they only have 10 minutes or they're in a system that isn't sort of designed to to work and to see the whole person. And I don't know, I can't say that all have good intentions. I start to doubt that actually. And I just wonder whether you have felt like you were exploited at any time because obviously it's a billion dollar industry pain. And ah were there times when you felt like a little bit exploited um for for personal gain of the the practitioner?
00:23:09
Speaker
I think a lot of it, I don't think I felt it at the time, but I think in hindsight, I can look at it and see, gee, I'm not comfortable with what happened in that situation. Because people, yeah um I found numerous times um people were pretty quick to offer me surgery. And I did have um i did have one surgery which was on my knee, which ultimately I hadn't needed.
00:23:41
Speaker
um And, and other sorts of quite invasive interventions, like nerve blocks and things like that, people could be pretty quick to offer that o yeah um without actually knowing a lot when I look at it in hindsight. And now I just think that makes me really nervous. And I'm glad that I didn't get any further down that road because I certainly could have done. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I look, I think like I said, most people are well intentioned, but um obviously there's some biases and some incentives in play um and they can sometimes I feel like guide or put blinkers on for certain health care professionals. and And this is across the board. This is not a pack on any particular health profession. I see it.
00:24:35
Speaker
to be honest, in physiotherapy um and that those professions as well as the specialists and and surgeons like that you've discussed. So yeah, it's not a not exclusive to one um profession, but unfortunately where where there's money to be made, people will exploit that. um And what's so sad is that people are in the crossfire of that. um And yeah, it can be,
00:25:05
Speaker
And they're desperate. For sure, yeah. And they're signing up for these things. They're so desperate for an answer. Yeah, the idea of informed consent to me is a little, it's not often informed enough. Yeah, absolutely. Because you want the answer so bad, you know, and if you've got the money, people will absolutely give you what they think is the answer.
00:25:33
Speaker
Yeah, totally. But I could go to, I could go to, you know, three or four different healthcare providers in a week and get three or four different answers about what they thought was going on. Yeah. And so how am I supposed to navigate that when I, you know, I'm just a consumer? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What would you say to people that are navigating that right now?
00:25:59
Speaker
and I know it's hard because, yeah, but you might have some suggestions. It's tricky. And I guess along the way, I did find some people within the system that I trusted and I valued their opinion and they were very honest about what they could and could not tell me um or or confirm one way or another. yeah and i and And so I stuck with those people.
00:26:28
Speaker
and they became like my healthcare team. yeah um yeah And so I guess I just got into a position where I found a level of comfort that you know they I'm comfortable dealing with this physio and this GP and this psychologist because they know me now yeah and and they're not trying to sell me anything. um So I'm gonna stick with those people as my team.
00:26:58
Speaker
yeah And I think that's that's probably a really good starting point. I think one of the big things with when it comes to consumers or people that are in pain going and seeking care is that they feel like ah advice or, sorry, I don't think that this is the best approach for you and and leaving it at that. They're not satisfied with that. They don't see that as treatment or care, but sometimes that that is exactly what they need. And so there is pressure on specialists to provide something. And that something isn't seen as something for people with pain when their advice is, sorry, I don't think surgery is the best option for you. That doesn't mean like- And I was definitely guilty of that. I wanted, when I went to see someone,
00:27:56
Speaker
I wanted them to do something to me that worked. I wanted to walk out of that room feeling better after that visit. yeah And if i went to you know if I went to see an exercise physiologist, for example, when and they just spoke to me for a while, I'd get really antsy because I'd think, just put your hands on me and fix it. Do you know what I mean? And and what what what they were doing were were they were actually trying to get my story and trying to understand my position, but I didn't understand that at the time because I just wanted them to fix the problem. yeah Like stop talking and get on with it mate. Like that's how I felt. Yeah. And on the on the other side of it, um I feel that all the time. Like when I have i have clients that come in to me and and if it's not
00:28:51
Speaker
if they don't get hands-on treatment like a massage or manipulation or whatever it may be, dry needles or they feel like I i didn't treat them that day. um yeah if it If it's just a conversation um and advice and education and look in an ideal world, the desire to be fixed in an instant is one that we all would have. and i And I often joke with people that if I had that, I would i'd give it to you and I'd also be very wealthy. yeah absolutely Because if we could do that, it would be amazing. um And, you know, people would obviously, I'd want to give that and people would find value in that. But it's just not the way that it is. And it can be hard for, yeah, for consumers to sort of
00:29:44
Speaker
understand that and grapple with that and understand what good care is. um And sometimes so the absence of certain things that they have perceived as the appropriate thing to do. Sure. And like I said, I was guilty of that. I can say it now. I absolutely see the value in it now. And I and advocate for it. Didn't say it then. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And, and it's hard, like, we, you know, we can talk about this, but it's it's They're probably going to have to go on their own journey if they're they're listening to this and they're thinking, oh, that's interesting. But oftentimes we do have to go on our own journey and learn the lessons along the way um that you've learned and been able to look back on. Tell me, in your TED Talk, you mentioned that um you mentioned that curiosity was your way out.
00:30:38
Speaker
um And I find that really fascinating and and I love the idea and the concept. What was it that you were curious about? And and yeah, just explain how that helped you. There are a couple of things that stood out to me about my pain that made me question what was going on. And they were that If I was distracted by something, if I had something that took my attention for a period of time, during that time, I could not feel pain. It wasn't often that something could distract me because I was so wrapped up in pain. But there were times like my sister-in-law took me to a concert um during this time that really didn't want to go. And she persuaded me to go. And I thought it was going to be terrible.
00:31:32
Speaker
The concert was amazing and I was there for a couple of hours. And I even danced at the concert. yeah and and And I didn't feel pain during that time. And I couldn't understand why that was.
00:31:48
Speaker
um And, you know, if unless i were unless my brain was active and at night and I was up Googling, um I could actually sleep. Once I went to sleep, I could sleep, still get, you know, i six, seven hours sleep.
00:32:02
Speaker
And I thought, how am I in so much pain every day that I can sleep at night once my brain switches off? Yeah. So I ah found those things really unusual and um quite a diversion from other people's experiences of being woken up in the night in intense pain and all that kind of stuff. That wasn't happening. So I guess ah I was trying to understand why my pain seemed a little bit different to a normal experience of pain. Yeah, yeah. um And you know, you you aren I understand it now that I know much more about what was going on, but at the time it didn't make a lot of sense. Yeah, for sure. No, it wouldn't. um and And because that the common-held view and understanding of pain is it doesn't make sense in that paradigm.
00:33:02
Speaker
um Yeah, so the curiosity around pain um was a big part of your recovery, is that correct? Well, it it it caused me to question the process I was going through in in just being having a medical approach.
Exploring Psychological Aspects of Pain
00:33:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:28
Speaker
and what What really kicked things off was that i I went to see an exercise physiologist, and he did the whole thing where he talked to me for a long time, and I was thinking, come on, mate, just put your hands on me and fix me. But at the end of it, he said, I want you to go and have a look at this TED Talk. And it was a TED Talk by Laura Momosely. And I think it's called Why Things Hurt or something like that. Have a look at this TED Talk, and he gave me a ah and YouTube clip to look up called um Taming the Pain or something like that. And he said, go away and watch these and then come back to the next appointment and we'll talk about them at the next appointment. And he said, you don't have a specific injury. You have chronic pain. That's your diagnosis.
00:34:22
Speaker
I wanted to diagnose this. I wanted them to be able to say, hey, look at this. You know, you've got a new stress fracture or you've got this problem with your ligaments or whatever it was. I wanted to point to it on a on a scan and say, this is what it is and this is how you fix it. And he said, that's not what it is. It's this, it's crying pain. Go and learn about it and come back. And he kind gave me homework and it was the most empowering thing anyone had done because they gave me the ability to start understanding it on my own and doing my own research and acknowledging that I had some power in this situation, that I could actually do things that would make my pain better. I just needed to understand it. yeah And no one had sold it to me like that before.
00:35:21
Speaker
Did that feel, because I mean, i I have these conversations on a daily basis, did that um land with you straight away? Or did you feel like a little invalidated and it was a bit of a struggle and it was a process? It sounds like it was like a light bulb moment, but um yeah, was it a bit of a process to wrap your head around those concepts? ah was um It it didn't land straight away.
00:35:51
Speaker
but there were parts of it that rang true to me when i when I think about what I mentioned that sometimes the pain wouldn't be there. And so I thought, well, you know what? I've gone through down every other rabbit hole. I like this person. I connect with them. I trust their judgment. I'm going to go down this rabbit hole too. And so I just started doing the research and what really resonated more than anything was listening to other people's recovery stories and what other people had gone through. And I'd, you know, they'd talk about the experiences that had with their pain. And I'd think, yeah, that's what happens with me. That, you know, my pain moves too. And, you know, yes, if I read that, sometimes it can change my pain and all that kind of stuff. So,
00:36:52
Speaker
It was other people's other, other consumers' stories that really got me over the line in terms of, yep, this is where I'm at. Like, this is what I'm dealing with. And so now I'm ready to to start taking steps to accept that this is what ah what I'm dealing with. And what do I have to do now to improve my situation? Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:19
Speaker
Can you, can you unpack what it was that you learned in that TED talk and how that shifted your approach? I had never previously been aware that pain can have a psychological aspect to it. Yeah. To me, pain was always about injury. Yeah. um you know, injury to the skeletal system, injury to tissue, whatever it is, it had to be related to that. I didn't understand that um trauma and, you know, psychosocial factors, they call them, um can actually either cause or elevate pain. Yeah. um And kind of get stuck in a cycle. So that, it you know, with all of the people that I'd been seeing,
00:38:14
Speaker
for for a couple of years, up until that time, no one had mentioned that possibility to me. So it just didn't ever cross my mind. Yeah. So that was, and, and Laura must had talked kind of explained how that works, you know, in a really simple way, but from someone that you knew was, um, a reliable source. Yeah.
00:38:42
Speaker
can you yeah Can you give like maybe a sentence or two on your summary of that, of of what how pain works? Oh, you do well. i'm not I guess pain is about,
00:39:11
Speaker
i've heard I've heard it phrased as pain is about context. So depending on your history and what you're experiencing at that point in time, you can experience pain irrespective of whether you have an injury or whether your injury has already recovered.
00:39:40
Speaker
yeah So the injuries I had were two years old and had well and truly healed yeah from my accident, but I was still experiencing pain long after all of that healing had was over because of the psychological position that I was in at the time. Yeah.
00:40:08
Speaker
No, that's brilliant. Now the contextual factors and then also outlining the fact that the brain has a role to play in pain, I think is key to your story. And, and I think a lot of people when you, when you talk about that, they feel invalidated because they, they think what you're saying is that it's all in your head and pain is not all in your head. It's an embodied experience. You feel it where you feel it, um but it doesn't this, um,
00:40:37
Speaker
ah Doesn't ah disprove the the fact that the brain has a role to play in it. And I think that is that is key and it sounds like it was key to your recovery. Absolutely. And and it it's a really confronting thing um to to understand that that's what's going on and accept it and explain it to other people as well, because it does still feel like there's some sort of stigma to it. And I, you know, I was coming from a very um masculine workplace where people don't even talk about pain, let alone that type of pain. Yeah. um Because it can still be quite stigmatized. So, i so it was hard not only to accept that's where I was at, but also to try and explain it to other people. For sure.
00:41:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it is. It's tough. And I think for for your personality type as well, it can be even harder. But I find it interesting that we accept the the mental health aspect of things and and the stigma has really changed around mental health um in that it's very well accepted. And to be able to get treatment and seek treatment for that is really easy. But when it comes to pain, I don't think we're quite caught up. And Yeah, I think i think that that's sad that that's the reality. um But I think that's the current state of affairs is that the the idea of the brain having a role in pain feels like it's diminishing or um invalidating a person's experience oh and it's not. ah One thing I say to people is that you know we I don't doubt it if someone feels hungry or feels in love or feels some other feeling
00:42:34
Speaker
and And pain is an emotional and ah and a feeling experience in many ways. um You feel pain. So, yeah, it's always real, um even if you can't point to particular evidence like an image, which is what you struggled with on the early in the early days.
00:42:58
Speaker
Yeah, tell us, I mean, you you talked in your TED Talk about, and this comes from obviously your running background and getting some coaching around that, is that, you know, a coach can give you advice and an education, but they can't give you like put in the work for you. um What was your experience with switching from more of a passive approach where people did things to you, which you explained?
Active Pain Management and Recovery
00:43:23
Speaker
to a more active approach where you felt empowered and and had a role to play in your own health? Well, for me, that was the best part of this switch to understanding what was going on, because I could ah could suddenly do something. I wasn't just waiting for the next medical appointment to get an answer.
00:43:49
Speaker
I, in that interim period, I could actually do things that were contributing to my own recovery. And so that was great for me because I, you know, like I'm, I'm the control freak, right? Like i I want to be in control of what's happening. And so, um, and, and no, I mean, these were not difficult things. It was about, it was about, um, self-talk.
00:44:19
Speaker
and reassurance to myself that I was safe. And, you know, i added attitude becomes everything because you have to provide your brain and your body that reassurance that everything's okay to start slowing down those those pain messages, you know, start start those messages that go through all the neural pathways and things like that that, that are sending you pain, you need to slow them down. And so that's a lot of work for you to do. And gradually too, I had to learn to trust my body. So I was taking steps to become more active and I would walk to my driveway, you know, to my front gate and back again
00:45:14
Speaker
and understand that I was okay. And then the next, you know, a couple of days later, I'd walk an extra half a kilometer and learn to trust again that I actually, nothing's broken. um I can do this. my You know, my body can physically do this. I actually just need to trust it. So I had that gradual exposure back to um great back to activity.
00:45:42
Speaker
which was great because it made me feel really good again that I could actually go and do something. I did boom and bust quite a lot because that's me, right? As soon as I think, hey, hey, this is okay. Like I'll i'll go and try and run five Ks yeah and I'd just blow everything up. um And that's my personality. I accept that. So I really had to learn where my threshold was and try to stay under the threshold, but but still gradually improve, like gradually get back to more and more activity. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's huge. And and I thought yeah I was thinking about your personality and and it doesn't surprise me that you're a boombuster. I am too. So I can relate to that.
00:46:34
Speaker
and what because Because of your personality context to paint and you you you outline that paint context is important for the paint experience. Tell me um what were the words that you were saying to yourself during these times? Because I can imagine being being someone that's a high achiever, you probably were beating yourself up a lot. What were some of the self-talk that you mentioned that you told yourself It was really simple stuff. And it was just repetition of, it's okay, you're safe. um Let's keep moving forward and trying to, and I even replaced unhelpful words. So I wouldn't refer to my pain as pain. I'd just call it discomfort. And we we just stopped using the word at home. So even my husband would, instead of saying,
00:47:33
Speaker
Are you in pain today? He would say, how's your comfort level? And just changing up things like that so that it just reframed you know where I was going with things. Instead of everything being limiting, it was about everything, all opportunities being open to me because I was safe and I was comfortable and you know I was strong and nothing's broken. And and I started seeing it as a really positive thing that, hey, yeah, you've got pain, but actually nothing's broken in your body. So that's great. We just have to keep moving through this to try and lower the amount of pain that you're in. So that was the kind of talking that I was doing. Yeah. Was pain was pain a warning for you or your body trying to tell you something?
00:48:33
Speaker
about, yeah, like change of lifestyle in any way? do you Did you see it in the different line? It was later on, like I, once I got a handle on it, and you know, it's not a straight line, it still goes up and down, it didn't go like this. Yeah, yeah. You know, so if there were stressful things happening,
00:49:01
Speaker
Um, or if I had elevated anxiety, I'd have an increase in pain. And so eventually I got to a point where if my pain became elevated and there didn't seem to be any physical reason for that to be happening, yeah it would be my warning that something else was going on. So maybe I had too much on my plate or I was actually feeling really anxious about something and hadn't sort of picked up on it.
00:49:31
Speaker
And and i I still get pain from time to time. It's not constant anymore. But when I start getting it now, it's like, oh, something's going on in the background. And I just haven't picked up on it yet. And usually I'll unpack it a bit and think, actually, yeah, I've got ah i've got quite a bit on at the moment. or I'm not dealing with that issue over here terribly well. And it's causing things to to flare up. Yeah, that's huge. Like what you've just explained, especially for people with your personality type, I think it's yeah, it's great self awareness that you've been able to find out that that that is a trigger to your flare ups is the stresses in your life and and how they're mounting up and ah taking a step back and unwinding is
00:50:22
Speaker
It sounds like it's your way to to get that under control quickly. Yeah. And and it's actually quite helpful. and like It's helpful that when I haven't picked up on, you know, consciously picked up on something that's happening in the background, my body will tell me. And and that's a good prompt that I need to take some action over something.
00:50:50
Speaker
It's such a broader view, hey, when you start to pan out. And I think that that's really helpful because there's lots of treatment options for people, but it's also can be a bit daunting because it's like, well, what actually is my trigger? And there's so many things that could factor into this and it becomes very complex and getting some clarity around those things is so important for you to feel back in control.
00:51:14
Speaker
of your pain and sounds like that's been your experiences over the years, you've developed this understanding of what are the triggers. um And so you feel more control over your pain. And it just shows the importance of lifestyle changes within that. Are there any other lifestyle factors that you haven't spoken about that you think are important for you personally?
00:51:43
Speaker
um Look, it's probably an age thing as well, but I definitely, I definitely questioned the need I had to keep pushing beyond where I was. yeah um And, you know, whether there was any benefit to that. So I guess I have not necessarily slowed down, but I've stopped putting pressure on myself.
00:52:12
Speaker
to constantly achieve something, to always be, you know, striving for, um to to win a race or something like that. And I actually don't compete in events or very, very rarely will I compete in physical events anymore. um And I just enjoy what I do. So I get a lot more enjoyment out of going for a run or cycling yeah without that need to to be doing it for the purpose of achieving something. yeah and And I think I'm in a lot healthier place because of it. ah show In a lot of ways, I think it's made me a healthier person, which I'm sure sounds strange, but it just sent me on this journey of understanding some very unhealthy approaches that I was taking to things in my life.
00:53:12
Speaker
and But I didn't need that necessarily. And that actually I'm okay. Just ticking along and enjoying what I do. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, I could take a lesson or two from from that, I'm sure. That sounds like words of wisdom. um Tell me, what does life look like right now for you?
Living an Active, Relaxed Lifestyle
00:53:36
Speaker
Like we painted the picture at the start and and prior to pain and then you painted the picture really nicely and thank you for being vulnerable enough to do that. um The depth of you know the pain experience. What does it look like now for your life? A more relaxed. My life's changed quite a bit in that You know, as I was just talking about, I sort of lost that need to constantly achieve. and And I had, you know, quite a big change where I decided to leave the the police service and I now work with the education department in emergency planning. And and I just work at, you know, a Monday to Friday job. I shouldn't shouldn't say just work. I work a Monday to Friday job. I don't do shift work.
00:54:34
Speaker
i um you know I just work to be able to live, to be able to enjoy um the things that I want to enjoy. And I have a lot less stress because of that. yeah and And it's one of the good things, I think, that came out of all this because it taught me what was important for me. um and you know, those things were a lot simpler than I thought they were. Yeah. Yeah. So I have a much happier, more settled life, because I went through this experience. And I'm still pretty active. ah There wouldn't be many days where I wouldn't do something, even if that was just a walk, but I still, you know, I'll still go out and, and do a 20k run on the weekend sometimes, or
00:55:32
Speaker
I'll, you know, I'll, I'll go on cycle a hundred Ks. Like I still do, um, you know, some people, some people might class that as extreme activity. For me, that's kind of mild pretty moderate compared to what I was doing previously. ah Um, but it's stuff that I enjoy and I don't put pressure on myself and I don't worry about how long things take me. You know, I just enjoy it. Yeah. Awesome.
00:56:03
Speaker
Do you think your body's capable of doing, I know you don't want to do them and I think that's, yeah, I think that's really, you know, I see your wisdom in that shifting to to more of a, yeah, the stress is not not worth the pursuit. um But do you think your body's capable of those bigger runs now? Do you have that feeling that it's capable or do you feel like your capacity isn't the same as it used to be?
00:56:30
Speaker
a I certainly think the capabilities there, it's a matter of desire. And there are things that I will do, like I went you know on the pain revolution ride last year, where we cycled 800 kilometres in seven days or something like that in in in Northern Queensland. I'll still do those sorts of things that are not races. yeah know I'd do it for fundraising or whatever it is.
00:57:00
Speaker
um So I know the capability is still there. yeah yeah um But I just wonder, do I need, I'm nearly 50, do I need to put my body to the absolute limit? yeah and you know and And the question is usually no, do I want to do it? If I want to do it, yeah, I'll go and do it. If I don't want to do it, I don't follow.
00:57:24
Speaker
Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. I just wanted to get a feel because I think, you know, some people might have been like, oh, but now she's not capable of that. So she, you know, I don't know. um But I think that's probably my type A and my, my driven personality coming out as well. But I think, you know, there's so much wisdom in in what you're saying and The desire, look, I don't have the desire to run that that sort of distance and to do an Ironman in the first place. So um i yeah I think you have a lot of wisdom in that. tell me Tell me about your advocacy work, because I know you do a little bit of advocacy and maybe some mentoring for people in pain. Sure. So I got hooked in with a
00:58:08
Speaker
the Pain Revolution Initiative at the University of South Australia. And that's primarily because of Finding Lorem as Ted Talk and and he um and he started that initiative. And so they um each year do a rural outreach tour where a group of health care professionals and people who lived experience jump on bikes and cycle hundreds of kilometres and deliver free information sessions along the way to consumers and healthcare professionals. And so I got hooked in with them because I received so much benefit from the free online resources that they have. And i I've done a couple of tours now with them where I speak about my experience to consumers and to healthcare professionals.
00:59:03
Speaker
in the hope that it it provides you know some information that that will assist them in whatever their journey is. And that became really important to me because I could see the value in the conversations that I was having. But a lot of it was type of oneon one-on-one or small group stuff. And that's why I decided to do the TED Talk that I did um in in Hobart last year um so that I could reach a lot more people and I do podcasts like this or radio interviews just to to reach out to people and say here's my journey really helped me in listening to other people's journeys ah hopefully listening to me will help you or someone that you know yeah hundred um and and I started doing work within the emergency services as well when I was still with um the the police service
01:00:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. Because a lot of people within emergency services um have a history of exposure to trauma or going through trauma themselves and are quite susceptible to going through chronic pain. Yeah, absolutely. And so I could assist them in terms of providing this sort of information but also providing it from the same context that they were in.
01:00:32
Speaker
because ah you know I've been that that copper who's going through this and feels like they're letting their mates down and that kind of stuff. So I can talk them through that, which I felt was really valuable too. So whenever the opportunity arises to have these discussions, I'll have them. um And I'm sure that they must reach some people. And and funnily enough, my husband was in a cafe not long ago,
01:01:01
Speaker
And he heard people at the table next to him talking about my TED talk yeah and um and actually working through what what I had talked about. And I thought, like, that's just gold. That's exactly what I want people to be doing. Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I do it. Yeah, I'll put a link in the the show notes so hopefully people can go and access that um and also Pain Revolution. i I'm hoping to be a part of it next year. They're coming up to the Gold Coast region. um And so yeah, I'm keen to get involved up here next year if you're going to be on it. I'm not sure whether you'll be on it, but um it yeah, but yeah next year for sure. Yeah, awesome. I'd love to, would love to catch up with you in person there.
01:01:52
Speaker
um Just lastly, you know there will be someone listening to this um that sort of is where you were when you're at your low points in the journey. What would your advice be to them?
01:02:09
Speaker
I guess I've been where you are and where you feel like you might you might have no value right now.
01:02:21
Speaker
but there's always hope and and just start taking steps forward. And it's not always a straight line and you're going to still be taking some steps back, but just keep facing in the right direction and keep moving forward. that Like for me, recovery took, well, I say I'm still recovering because I still get pain occasionally, but um and it really was a good six months before I felt like I could go through a solid week without experiencing pain. So it's not gonna happen next week, but keep facing in the right direction um and and keep working at it because you've you've one you're the one that's got the power.
01:03:13
Speaker
that Yeah, that's amazing. I think it's really important to to empower people that you know they are in the hot seat. They should be in the driver's seat of their own recovery, especially when it comes to chronic illness and and chronic pain. So thank you so much for sharing. It's been a pleasure, Lauren, and I feel like this will be invaluable for many people. So thank you so much for being a part of it.