Transcript
Speaker: I am the night rider. You're terrible Muriel. Talk to me. You gonna do that, Pogger Pogger? You've been talking the cop. Today is a brand new day. No, that's it. It's the vibe.
Speaker: G'day fellow Aussie film lovers and welcome to another episode of Under Southern Screens, the most haunted Australian cinema. Nope, that's not what I wrote. I didn't write that. Oh, we're backtracking, we're going around. I actually didn't write that. I saw him reading it as he was doing and then I was like, I don't like this one. So I switched to Haunted. I'm going to flip the script right now. What podcast is it, Mitch? What's on the southern screen? What podcast is it? The most ghost-filled Australian cinema podcast. I'm Mitch.
Speaker: And I'm Matthew and I'm a little spooky specter in your room. I'm hovering around. you get out? I'm a little guy. Get out of your house. See, that would make the movie Ghostbusters a lot faster. Yeah, if you could just be like, get out. Get out, get out. Like a dog. Get out. You like shake a little chew toy at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember Ghostbusters 2016? What movie.
Speaker: Who are you going to call? Answer the Call. Oh, Answer the Call. Answer the Call. That's right. But it's like, is it Ghostbusters or Ghostbusters Answer the i think they did a edge of tomorrow and kind of switched the name because edge tomorrow is now live die repeat isn't i haven't seen but it's also been like i also see it in like bargain bin dvd things and i'm not sure if it's the same movie or a different movie it's actually such a good movie though which is really good reminds me of real steel remember that movie um it's nothing like real steel don't know, it just reminds me of that era of movies, I guess. I don't Anyway. Sure. And we're talking about a movie this week that is in that era of movies. came out around the same time. Yeah, but it's nothing to do with what we were talking about. No, it's nothing to do with it. I just thought of the female Ghostbusters movie and I was like, let's start this episode with it. It's a classic Vine. It's like, four female Ghostbusters, the feminists are taking over. I'm an adult virgin. Oh, okay. You ever seen that? I've not seen that, but given the backlash towards Ghostbusters 2016, it checks out. He's making a joke, but yeah. Today we're talking about The Dark Side. The Dark Side. The second Warwick Thornton film?
Speaker: we call film? Yeah, I guess a feature film. Yeah, it's 94 minutes. You watch it in one, it's not a TV show. That's damn sure. In and out, mate. That's how we do this around here. It's the shortest Warwick Thornton movies we've watched so far. It's quite strange. it's the most strange oddity it's the black sheep of the warwick thorns and oeuvre that we have witnessed we'll get into it definitely we will it's interesting spoilers for the dark side by the way we need a spoiler alert this movie well you know i don't think you can spoil this movie honestly i think this movie is not spoilable i'll find a way But I guess just in case, it is indeed spoiler alert for Warwick Thornton's film, The Dark Side. Lock in. Let's get this intro underway, Mitch. Not to be confused with the popular Gary Larson comic strip, The Far Side. thought you were about to say The Fart Side and I was about to laugh really hard. It's called The Fart Side. It's called The Fart Side. Surely you know the comic strip, The Fart Side. know The Fart Side now.
Speaker: It is a collection of personal anecdotes from First Nations people detailing their brushes with spirits and other denizens of the non-living variety. It was released in 2013 and contains 13 separate stories that Warwick Thornton picked out over 150 submissions after he had asked the public to provide their Indigenous ghost stories.
Speaker: The film is almost entirely shot with a locked off frame, like an interview. Oh, but it is an interview. It's almost. 13 different interviews there is however some variety including footage of the sound and film archive which compliments the story that's being told over that a man painting a haunting looking young girl and a black spot surrounded by white that is the intro that's the film that was probably the most factual intro that we've done for this i don't want to i don't want to like joke about this one yeah very very it's a lot more personal very anecdotal film that's it it's all anecdotes Oh, no, there was that one sequence as well. Matthew, thoughts on ghosts?
Speaker: Believe them? Don't believe them? Thoughts on ghosts? I have a complex history with believing in ghosts. If you were ask me if I believed in ghosts, I would say... did. did ask if you believed in ghosts. Okay. Well, you've asked me, so I'm going to say no, but I have seen a ghost. Walk me through this. Walk me through this. It's so very weird. The times when I feel like I've seen a ghost or I've seen a little spooky specter have been moments when I'm extremely sleep deprived or like half asleep, half awake in my little days or trance. So I can't 100% for sure say that they're not figments of my mind. Yeah. Which is why I'm going to say, no, I do not believe in ghosts. But you're open to the idea. I'm in a polyamorous believing of ghosts. didn't have to say polyamorous. We didn't have to say that. I could go either way. Bro chose that word. Bisexual believer in ghosts. Yeah, bisexual makes a bit more sense. A pansexual believer in ghosts. I don't know, man. He bats for both teams. Yeah, it's such an interesting concept, though. I should ask you if you believe in Ghostbusters. It's just such an interesting concept to me. Screw that. I'm not asking you. We're talking about me. Yeah, because this is our podcast work. It's just all one directional. I did ask for more than just, do you believe in ghosts? I said, espouncil, please continue. think it's just an interesting idea, right? That ghosts exist in a physical form and not in an emotional, I guess there's different interpretations of what a ghost is, right? don't know. I'm a very sleep deprived boy. And then, and in those moments, I see a lot of ghosts. I don't know, Mitch, what do you think? Ghosts? I am a staunch non-believer in everything. He's a flat ghost. Not just ghosts, religion, vampires. Aren't you a Jewish man though? No, so I'm not Jewish by belief. I'm Jewish by culture and Jewish by how I was brought up. Which to be fair, wasn't actually that Jewish, but half of my family is Jewish. We celebrated some cultural stuff, but overall, the family itself doesn't actually really believe in God. It was more of a way to be close to each other than it was to be a way of living. I see. Well, thank you for clarifying that. No, that makes sense. I'll tell you why. Because the first time I met you back when we first met was the first piece of information I found out about you was that you were Jewish. For like, I made Jew joke. I'm like, oh, okay, you must be a pretty... I'm pretty into it. I mean, look, I did a lot of stuff. Like I've done my bar mitzvah for a little bit. I knew a bit of Hebrew.
Speaker: I blew it from my memory as soon as possible because I didn't enjoy learning it and it was useless information to me. And also you're allowed to believe what you want to believe as an adult. exactly. But I've had my dues. He's paid his dues. Yeah. Sorry, I can't say that. That's really anti-Semitic. No, that was good. That was just a little slight extra onto the trick, I admit. I love that. That was good. But yeah, so no, I don't believe in ghosts. I like horror movies and I get really invested in mythology and all that when I'm watching, you know, a good horror movie that like teach me about the world and world building and all that. Or building a mythology around it. Exactly. But when you start trying to say that this stuff that happened in our world, I do not get on board. When you say you don't get on board, so do you reject it? Are you cynical of it? Are you just like, I have no physical frame of reference. I can't get into this. To put it this way, almost every single story in this, I believe can be chalked up to very easy, like at least three to four of these just sound like sleep paralysis. I've seen silhouettes of people standing in my doorway and it wasn't real. And I feel like what frustrates me is some people might listen to that and be like, oh he's seen ghosts. He's like, no, I haven't. People have sleep paralysis. They see things that aren't there.
Speaker: There's that one lady in this who she had, like it's the one with the the dance over it. um And she talks about how she met these elders and there was a the rainbow serpent that wrapped around her. It's pretty documented that when you meditate, which is what she was doing, you can hallucinate. and Nothing in this was crazy to me. like It was like, no, this is easily explainable.
Speaker: A lot of these just sound like people who are half asleep saw something. Because like, okay, the one that I actually, my favorite of these, sorry, I know I've kind of taken over the conversation. It's interesting listening to your perspective because i' have a very different perspective. Yeah, no and and hopefully we'll and we'll get to yours yeah after I badger you with Mike. No, not badgering. But the one that I liked the most is the one about the a sound and film archive. Yeah, that was great. I loved that. one That one was really good because what was actually spooky was the real history behind There was a setup. There was like a build up. But once the ghost was introduced, <unk> like, no, what happened was you'd been studying this for hours upon hours upon end for days. You hear a point of sleep deprivation and your brain brought this guy forward in your subconscious. And she even said she woke up. Like, I sound so aggravated and I shouldn't because these people are allowed to believe what they believe. They must feel pretty passionately about what they saw. if They handed it in to Warwick Thornton to put it out, to put it on blast. To be fair, a lot of actors were the ones who relayed the story.
Speaker: Related? I love that. Anyway. I found it really hard. I actually really didn't enjoy this. I found this a really hard movie to get through. It's only 94 minutes and I felt that runtime because- It's so different to everything else we've watched on Yeah, it is. It is. And I am glad it exists, but it's not something I'm not on board for what it's about. I love it. They're like shredding because I'm about to start gushing over this movie. Yeah, go for it. Please go for it. I had the complete opposite reaction. I kind of love this movie. Fair enough. And it's not just because I love Warwick Thornton and I love all of his movies. I didn't come into this movie with a, is this real type of, Sorry, that was so mocking. I'm so sorry. No, it's fair. I love you. I didn't come into it with that mentality. I came into it from a storytelling perspective because Indigenous Australia, inherently in its culture, and I hope I'm not appropriating or misinterpreting, from what I'm able to gather, it's based around age-old stories and storytelling and conveying years and years and decades and centuries of culture. very oral passed down 100 100 and i think it's such a fascinating experiment because i i don't think that this this is on the same level as the other warwick thorns and films that we've discussed but i think it's it's in its own sort of separate bubble in an avant-garde sense you know it's almost unfair to like put up against other movies it's like i think so think so so for this i found this movie a firstly i found it a great piece for showcasing some of these excellent actors and monologue skills and that type of thing i really got a kick out of that but then i also loved the way that they told the stories and the gradual progression of it and then also i think like some of the filming techniques used i mean we'll talk about the film and sound archive thing in more detail yeah So yeah, I think as a narrative film, I think you're absolutely right in that you probably won't get much out of this, especially if you go into it as a cynic of the idea of Ghost. I took a step back, watched it as a piece of art as opposed to piece of storytelling, like an overall overarching storytelling. And I got something out of it, which I'm very happy about. And, you know, don't know. I'm sticking to my guns about it, mate. You can't change my mind. I'm not going to try to. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thanks, man. I think what I found tricky about this beyond the actual subject matter is found it really dry. It is dry. It is dry by design, but it's a, and I can watch a dry movie. We're probably going to watch the dry sometime soon. And then the wet, its sequel. Oh, the wet. I just found the locked off camera, especially because Warwick Thornton's He's got a good eye. He does. He's got good eye. He moves his camera well and he does good shots well. And there's just not a lot of that in here. It's not playing to a extent. Because, I mean, once again, we're reviewing two movies back to back. We are. You guys will get the next episode next week.
Speaker: But at this point in time, Matthew and I have also both watched Samson and Delilah. We have. And even in Samson and Delilah, he's moving that camera around quite a bit more than, so it's not like he developed it after this. He's had it. He had the source. He completely flipped the script this one. And he was trying something new. Like he's a very experimental director, especially working backwards. You can see he's not sticking to what he knows. He's trying new things. And I really respect that.
Speaker: And i so I can't begrudge the attempt in this, but i did find it up. It made it a hard watch. I think a world where he did do that is a world where the film could be better, where he did go back to a traditional style. It could be more, a more engaging watch. I think if he did become more like flamboyant with his camera movements, though, it would maybe take away from the point of the film. which is that it's supposed to be locking in to the specific people and their specific stories. And the only issue is that I just wasn't on board for their stories. And I tried.
Speaker: i really did. i We on this podcast attempt to lock in as much as we can for each movie. We don't really come into it with preconceived no ideas of what it is. real like like we are like We're not going into this being like, I hate this because no it's on track. tripod the whole I was intrigued what it was. I didn't even know what this was either. Yeah, I didn't know what to expect from this. I just knew was so... Honestly, I thought there was going to be reenactments. And it's not like I found it disappointing that it wasn't. Like, I don't think it being reenactments would have made this better for me. it's just kind of a thing isn't it you know yeah even though i didn't enjoy this i respect the vision a lot i think artistically there's a lot here i think if it was not ghost stories i would have had a better time honestly if it wasn't the core conceit of the film i think you know like if it was indigenous stories story with a different theme i would have had a better time it was just the fact that the movie was asking me to get on board with these people who i just don't believe makes me feel like a bit of a like a bad person There's just so much of it. like There was that part, and I felt horrible during this part too, because it was a devastating story, whether you believe in ghosts or not. But there's that part about the woman who finds a Ouija board in the garbage tip. Yes. And this Ouija board basically cursed her and her whole family, and they just lost people and themselves, removing the fact if it was actually a ghost or not. Horrible. yeah Sounds like a horrible time for this family. They lost sons, they lost fathers, they lost- And the performance is great, I felt i think. I felt a lot for this woman, but then just there's a little shithead in the back of my brain being like, but it probably wasn't a ghost though. It's a tough pill to swallow. her I can't, yeah I can't deny that. This Ouija board is probably just a way for her to rationalize why all these bad things happen. My heart goes out for her. I have so much sympathy for her, but I don't believe her story. it's it's interesting that you've had this rating i just came into this as i would any other movie this is the story i'm gonna ingest this story maybe it's the form the form of the picture it's the fact it's meant to be real i think if they were like this is just ghost stories i would have be more on board if i'm just like this is just a creepy tale yeah the fact that it's meant to be real is what makes me start going no this isn't real yeah well you know what i mean like it's
Speaker: yeah There was one bit that immersion did sort of break for me. I'll preface this by saying I used to be a little bit of an actor in my previous life. What? Oh, you know, just a little bit of lore done for you.
Speaker: Just a little bit of lore. Matt lore. Nothing major at all. It was like for like two years. Through that, I've really gained an appreciation for monologues and seeing a gradual performance come out through a monologue. The grand majority of these performances led by some a lot of quite established Australian actors. Brian Brown makes another return. What a legend. Deborah Mailman. Aaron Pedersen is in this. I was watching these performances and really gravitating towards these performances. And then we get to Aaron Pedersen, who does a bit of a different take. He starts by being like, oh, where do I look? Do I look at the camera? it was the He was more of like a copper type guy. like he was He's the one who like stands up halfway through and goes, did you hear that?
Speaker: like Yeah, that type of thing. yeah he He's very sort of spacey and skittish. As fun as I like that performance, it was just a performance to me. you what mean? It did take me out. The naturalness of it kind of disappeared on that one. like with Because you know Brian Brown's one Debra Melman's one, they're just kind of twerking.
Speaker: That's yeah all they're doing, where he was acting. For me, at least the immersion was broken by that. It was fun. yeah it's not, it wasn't bad breakup of the formula, because a lot of them are very sort of similar in the way they're constructed, where it is like it starts off neutral and then it goes to a particular place, which is most usually sorrow or sadness, know what mean, throughout. There was some happy ones though.
Speaker: That's true. The flower one was nice. um Yeah, yeah. I really loved the film and sound archive story. I thought that was yeah really strong. Like I was saying, the what affected me the most about that was the real history that was there. The fact that the sound and film archive is storing all these sounds and films. Yeah, funny that. Hit the nail nail with that one, Mike. Yeah, in a place that originally was used to store the specimens of dead First Nations people and also yeah animals. It was just that like the whole of anatomy, you know what I mean? I looked this up because they mentioned it really briefly, the idea that the Australian Aboriginal people...
Speaker: were the missing link between apes and in quotation marks civilized human. It's a very racist theory. It's a theory surrounded in white supremacy. It's from the 1800s. It comes around a similar time with the skull being different shapes mean something and stuff like that. It's it's all eugenics. It's all garbage. I didn't know that that was a theory that people had. It doesn't surprise me, but I didn't know about it And it was interesting, so this doctor, he, a lot of Aboriginal people were being massacred, and this guy was worried about losing evidence of the, in quotation mark, missing link. So he had these First Nation people's bodies that he, first of all, had dissected and cut apart. So I pretty we heard trigger warning on this. Sorry, trigger warning guys. but He's dissected these bodies of Aboriginal people and he's preserved them. And now that same room is, as mentioned before, where the sound and film archive keep a lot of their stuff. And the are recordings and the video of First Nations people as everything. else And there's also the picture, the black and white picture of what the room looked like. Prior to the switchover. Yeah, exactly. and And you see the picture and you see like a very disjointed tour of the Sound and Film Archive as the story is being told. And you also get some of the archival footage. That is haunting. That I found exceedingly haunting. From a yeah structural perspective, that is the most strong ghost story it is as whole. It the best one. I know you think this the last one's the best one. To me, this one was the best one. I think it's the most structurally strong. i think It's just the fact that this is real history. that yeah And that really affected me because that's a horrible story. yeah It's really dark and disturbing. and But do you want to talk about the last one? Yeah, yeah. I think for me, it was the last one was... the strongest performance out of all. I would agree. Yeah. And really saved the best till last. It has the best moment in quotation mark when and she finally turned and looked at the camera. That was actually quite chilling. The final story is performed by Shari Sebbins, whom I did have to look up. So i apologies, Shari, for that. But Yeah, her performance is freaking wild and crazy. And I think it's really effective. Pretty bloody dank. It's really dank. I shouldn't have said that. Her performance is really dank because it's a little twist up of the formula where it's... You can tell me if I missed the mark on this completely, but it's like... The ghost story is not that she saw a ghost, but it's that she lost someone who became a ghost. Right? She had a connection with her grandma, who was already dead by the start of the story, right? Yeah, I believe so. Then the sister's daughter, who was about couple years old, passes away due to complications. Does she then see the daughter again? i think so. I think it is like the channeling of that through. Right, because the grandma ushers the daughter on to the next existence, the next side. then The dark side, as it were. might not sound like it, because I need to paraphrase half of that, but... I got really enraptured with the performance because she does she like looks down throughout the whole thing. She performs with such a a reserve. It's so reserved. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. So everyone's usually looking at the camera as well um in this, and she's looking away. Basically, we mentioned before that there's a part where she looks to the camera yes yeah um at the end, and it coincides with a ghost looking at her, think. Yeah, yeah, believe though... I'm a hater and I don't believe in ghosts. It's still chilling.
Speaker: Still a chilling moment. It's it's just, it's very powerful and and powerful. And the fact that you finally see your eyes properly from the front on and you can see all the emotion in there.
Speaker: It's powerful. It's a very powerful moment. In a film that is so dialogue heavy and you're like, you're listening to what they're saying. And, you know, I think um it's filmmaking. It was proper filmmaking. Which not to say the rest of the film doesn't have proper filmmaking in it, but just, It's its most active filmmaking. There was real direction in that from Warwick where like you kind of get the sense of a bunch of other things. He's like, you know, breed the monologue and you trust the actor. But it feels like in that moment, he and Sherry Sevens worked together to come to this moment and they pulled it off really well. Aside from the narrative, I think this is such a bold move of all we thought to make this film. What an insane second movie. Yeah. I know. It's crazy. It feels like one of those experimental things that you would only show in the underground. you want to be like in the avant-garde scene or whatever? But this is... This is the one after his big one. He kind of got like some sway with his name. I guess so, yeah. you know Samson and Delilah, and then he was like, I want to do this, and I respect it. It's only got about 250 logs, I think, on Letterboxd. And when you look at the Rotten Tomatoes score, it's about 58%. I think it's around a two to low three average on Letterboxd as well. So it's quite divisive. It's not what people were looking for from him at the time, but I think taking a step back... You reckon Revisits? I don't think I'll be watching this again, to be honest with Okay, fair enough. I got the picture from it, to be honest. Even though I think it did i think it's great. You can like something and not want to rewatch it. I do think that taking a step back and looking at this, not as a follow-up to Samson Delilah or as a... continuation of canon. In addition to the Warwick Thornton oeuvre or like making a statement because this is in terms of like subject matter it's linked but not really. Oh the theme there is sort of themes about white oppression and but I think that's almost that's almost like goes hand in hand with modern indigenous stories. It's not trying to make a statement on those either I think it's just a byproduct of the the ghosts you know what mean? And group of people that they decide to take the stories from yeah. So if you don't look at it in any way, shape or form, other than the fact that it is a work of art, I think it's an interesting little thought experiment, you know? Intuigging. But which is better, The Dark Side or Ghostbusters? Answer the call. I probably had more fun watching Ghostbusters, but definitely think that this deserves his existence way more than Ghostbusters does.
Speaker: Good answer. That was a wild comparison to make. I just wanted to throw you for a loop. Yeah, and I handed it like a champion. He's done his media training. Yeah, I've done media training. Now, don't get me to ever ask someone. Don't say that to me ever again. No, was going to say, don't get me to ask someone where to find them online, because I'll just ask them to dox them. still on that i still think about it every day that was so funny shout out xavier man yeah sorry xavier i have a most australian thing do you now oh i actually got two might sound them off go nuts so in the fourth story it's shot in a bar and there's this part where when the guy who's in the bar is wrapping up he starts pouring himself a pint because the bar isn't manned and i thought that was pretty bloody aussie Yeah, that is true. That is true. And then the other one is in the fifth story, which was the one about the Ouija board. She went for a sticky beak. Oh, yes. Yeah. And was like, oh, yeah, that's good. That's good stuff. Do you want to explain what that is to the layman? The layman.
Speaker: It's like to have a peruse, but like a cheeky peruse, though. Like, you're not really supposed to be having a look, but you're snooping. You're sticking your nose where you shouldn't be. Your beak is sticky, you know? Yeah. That's a vague one. Yeah, I haven't heard Sticky Beacon a while and I went, oh, I like that. But the guy pouring his own beer because the bar wasn't manned was also quite amusing. I mean, I know that was the setup of the shot and was probably asked to do that, but I thought it was just amusing. very Aussie. Yeah. Also, shout out to Jack Charles. He is an Indigenous actor. He's been in the game a very long time. He is the man pouring the beer. Yes, yes. Yeah, he is a titan in the Australian acting game. He's in Mystery Road. He's in a bunch of other Australian films. Was he Mystery Road? He was. We should do that too. I like Mystery Road. He passed away a couple of years ago, but he's a very, very prolific Australian Indigenous actor. Mystery Road's really good. I really like Mystery Road. I did an assignment on it in uni. I did like a video essay on it, which was pretty cool. just watched it. That's what you do. That's what you do in life, isn't didn't watch the show though. Tell you what, Warwick Thornton directed the Mystery Road show. He really? He did. Maybe it was the second season of it or something like that. Well, you can tell us your own ghost stories that I won't believe at TikTok, Instagram, threads, and YouTube at UndersouthernScreensPod. And you can send us those exact same unbelievable ghost stories. Just send the exact same Send the exact same thing to UndersouthernScreensPod at gmail.com. Matthew, what else they If you send enough times, Mitch might believe you. If three times, I'll appear in your mirror. In the mirror. Right. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, you were going to ask me something. What else can they do to help the pod?
Speaker: They can rate it five stars on your podcast streamer of choice. would be crazy if they did that. Just send it to a friend. Just send an ep to a friend and be like, hey, look at these funny men. Oh, you're gonna say a slur why would i say a slur why when i ever said a slur haven't it was that's why was that's why i was like this is gonna be unpod which implies you say oh no oh no when have i ever said a slur in general i'm sorry i really dug you a hole to get in um but yeah no please rate us review us rate us good review us nice yeah that'd be good that'd be really really awesome it really does help
Speaker: I tell you what, we're getting to the good one next week. under Which implies the rest of these aren't good ones. I'm hitting you with so many Twitter-ass replies. I called you out on that in the chat. You did, and now I'm hitting you back. I'm just so excited because next week we're going to be watching my favourite Australian film of all time. We're peaking pretty early in our podcasting careers, but we are watching... For you, not for me. Oh, no. No, just like because because it's your favorite, right?
Speaker: It's your favorite. Yeah, that's all I'm saying. i We don't know my opinion on this. Well, you'll have to find out what Mitch thought next week because we're watching. It did sound like I hated it. Yeah, I got so scared. We're watching Samson and Delilah 2009. This is the episode to tune in for next Tuesday on but and when next Wednesday. it's like the Fury Road of Mad Max. It's like the Fury Road of Wargas actually. Yeah, it is the Fury Road of Wargas. Tune in next week for WrestleMania. The fight is on.
Speaker: And keep an eye on those sudden screens. Thanks for listening to another episode of Under Southern Screens. We'll be back next week to talk more films down under. we just want to attribute that our opening title is Heavy Duty by Zoo and our closing title is Heavy Weight by Fell Creek. Thanks so much for listening and Mitch and I will see you in the next episode. See you next time.
Speaker: Under Southern Screens would like to acknowledge the stolen lands on which this podcast is recorded and produced and pay tribute to the Wurundjeri and Woiwurrung people of the Kulin Nation and Kamaragal people of the Eora Nation.
Speaker: Sovereignty was never ceded and we pay respect to all Indigenous Elders past, present and emerging. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.
