Transcript
Speaker: Welcome everybody to the, uh, distant echoes podcast episode nine today. It's, uh, me, Alan and my cohost Adrian, and we have special guest Brett from, uh, accurate tomb and dark watcher.
Speaker: How's it going, Brett? going great. Well, thanks for being on. Uh, this is my first time seeing you face to face. So that's always fun. You know, working with people over the internet on music and whatnot, just talking over discord. Yep.
Speaker: But we're real people. We exist. Here we are. And you got your Ulcerate shirt on, which is definitely like tickling my fancy. I love that band. Yes, sir. You got a favorite album of theirs?
Speaker: um Usually tied up between Everything's Fire Staring to Death, probably. Oh, yeah. Dude, Staring to Death, the whole thing is such a mood. like I think they used like and a special tuning for that album. It's like E-flat.
Speaker: But it just has such a dark vibe. is so just i mean They're an impressive band in general. All their albums are, but that one really sucks you in.
Speaker: I really like the new one a lot, too. I'm a big fan. and so And as much as I love Ulster 8, I actually haven't checked out the first couple albums like all the way through, so I've still got to do that.
Speaker: Yeah, Everything's Fire is complete classic. It really breaks the bounds of like, well, it just like breaks beyond like what you think of as tech death. Because lot of people don't even think of them as tech death really. But it's just this really awesome middle ground of atmospheric and like post and just extremely chaotic technical death metal.
Speaker: Yeah, my bandmate Gabe was telling me like, he thinks of them as more of like a post metal band than a, than like a straight death metal band. And I was like, I totally see that. They do a lot of atmospheric stuff for sure.
Speaker: Awesome band, big inspiration to me for sure. Um, so yeah, I mean, i mean, that's a good segue right there. So you've got a couple of projects that I know about, maybe some I don't know about, but let's just talk about those first and then we'll get into like how you got there later on. yeah,
Speaker: I mean, Akritomb, that's how we met. um I think you found me from Reddit. Is that right? yeah So I guess I posted on Reddit that I was a vocalist looking for a project or something like that.
Speaker: And you hit me up like, I think it was like six or eight months later, something like that. And I was free. So I was like, yeah, send me some stuff over and we'll see. And the tracks you sent me over were just crushing. They were awesome. So I was immediately interested.
Speaker: and working together and had a lot of fun writing and recording for that split that we did, um which go ahead and just plug it right now. What's it called and and where can people find it?
Speaker: um Yeah, the split we did was Acrid Tomb and Tomb of Annihilation. They're a great band from Virginia. um And the split was called Hermetic Invocations, I believe.
Speaker: And you can get it on Bandcamp. I think there's a YouTube stream. um so on spotify yeah it's on Spotify um yep yeah Bandcamp is where you can get it if you want to support and you can get it either from the label or directly from Akritomb as well actually I think you if you try to get it from the label it's physical only right yeah okay yeah they ship from like Germany i think right and then there are think do you still have any copies physical for that
Speaker: Yeah, I got CDs. Okay, so you can buy them in the US. Shipping would be better there too. Awesome. um So tell me about Acrytum. I was not the first vocalist for that. So tell me about the origins of that.
Speaker: Um, well, like all my projects except for Dark Watcher, I always start off wanting to like do like a kind of a tribute attitude. Like I want to do like suffocation. I wanted to have like the first couple tracks. I want to do like a suffocation style.
Speaker: And then usually after the first, whatever first releases, I start figuring out how to do make it, make little more unique. Um, so we did a, but just a self-titled demo in this 2021.
Speaker: It was two track demo. twotra demo And I worked with um Andrew from Invultation and the Wake Dead Gathering. And he's an awesome dude.
Speaker: But he had a kid around the time of the split, so he couldn't commit to recording for that one. Yeah. Awesome vocalist as well, for sure. I would say really unique style um fits the music really well. And I really liked that first ah demo you guys did a lot.
Speaker: So check that one out to everybody. um So yeah, you how'd how you find out or how'd you meet him? We were in a mutual discord server and,
Speaker: I remember, so i had I already had some material out for, it wasn't Dark Watcher. It was for my other band, Kinocephalus or Sinocephalus. It's a war metal style band.
Speaker: And I remember him, remember posting that I saw that he bought my demo. And I thought that was so cool because I'd already heard like the Wake Dead gathering. i was like, oh, this is an established guy. It's like supporting my music.
Speaker: And then somebody tagged him. I didn't realize he was in the Discord server where I was posting about it. And i don't know, we just like, you know, we interacted there. And then eventually I think I asked him to record on the Accra Tune demo, basically.
Speaker: Yeah. You also had live drums on that first demo. Can you talk about that? For Accra Tune? On the first demo. Yeah. Let's see, it was Jared Moran, I think. um Yeah, he's a he's a cool dude. we didn't We didn't really work out for the the next one.
Speaker: ah Just some stuff kind of um like we were tied up in different ways. I needed to get it out, but yeah, he recorded live, live drums for that. And the cynocephalus, I did a split cynocephalus for that. They recorded for, he's a, he's good drummer.
Speaker: Yeah, dude. The production was really cool on that one too. Just overall, I'm a big fan. um So yeah that's really cool. And then later on, you know, you needed another vocalist and we connected and we worked on hermetic invocations and,
Speaker: yeah, just a lot of fun to be able to work on some like old school type death metal, something I don't normally get to do. Um, yeah, I think, um, probably my favorite thing about that was, uh, you wrote the lyrics for the first track and then I ended up writing the lyrics for the second one. And I got to, I basically just wrote straight up about dark souls.
Speaker: So that was, it's fine to be a little bit nerdy and get that out. Um, pretty easy to figure out if anybody knows about that, if they read along, but,
Speaker: Yeah, really cool stuff. um So that's what that's that that's basically Acrid Tomb. um And by the way, you're based in Missouri? Yep. Yeah, that's right. ah yeah and then ah So I know about that, obviously. I know about Dark Watcher, which is another project of yours. that's like What would you call that?
Speaker: Like style wise, ah spaghetti, Western, um kind of not really country, kind of a, I usually go for Americana because it's a little more broad term, but yeah, it's like Western inflected black metal, I guess.
Speaker: Right. So you do think of it as black metal. Cause I can hear a little bit of death in there just a little bit, but it definitely leans towards the black side of metal and and That's a really cool project too. I was really curious what your like inspirations for that were, and you can, you can go ahead and correct me if my, if I'm wrong and off base here, but I got this, like, um, I just got, I got an inkling that you might possibly have been a little bit influenced by Stephen King.
Speaker: Tell me if I'm totally off there. like ah Like Dark Tower type? Yeah, yeah. i I read Stephen King. I have not read Dark Tower, though. Okay. Yeah, the gunslinger is what I was thinking of when I was listening to that, for sure. um just gave me those vibes, but there's plenty of different dark Western influences that you could have had, so tell me what you were influenced by.
Speaker: Well, I remember the first thing that kind of spawned the idea was was playing Red Dead Redemption 2 when it came out. It started the band in like spring or winter 2019, the game come out fall before that, 2018.
Speaker: so ah fall before that twenty eighteen Um, and I think I just remember the score because the first game has a very like traditional Getty Western and score.
Speaker: Then the second game has a kind of, um, it bounces around. There's like some weird rock Western kind of stuff going on in places. like think I just remember thinking that I wish there was like a black metal band that did this.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, and I, after that, I mean, and think we, I think our first song, we was written about blood Meridian, the Cormac McCarthy novel.
Speaker: Oh, well, that's cool. um So, I mean, yeah, you're a gamer. We don't normally talk about games on this podcast, but i mean, we definitely can today since we've got an excuse to. So Red Dead Redemption 2 is an influence for Darkwatcher. That's cool.
Speaker: And I haven't ever played it, but i've I've been told by people that I trust their opinions on games that it's, you know, you got to, it's a masterpiece. It's a long game, but it's worth it kind of thing. Yeah, that's great. It looks really good. I think I just can't get over the the having to hold X to sprint thing. Like, come on, rockstar.
Speaker: I don't know, but that's, ah that's neither here nor there. um But what you were saying about, like, I wish there was a black metal band that wrote about this. I totally understand that because I've had that thought many times. In fact, like it'd be so easy to do a Valheim themed one too. Like it'd be pretty kind cheesy, but it'd be easy to do for sure.
Speaker: There's already a lot of Viking themed bands. So you could definitely do something. Yeah, I mean, I just specifically Valheim, like the lore of that game and writing about that would be really, really fun, I think. But I don't know.
Speaker: um Probably won't get around to it. I've got like 12 projects. So...
Speaker: Um, there's actually, I'm speaking of how many projects I have. i actually have so many damn projects that I, of all things decided I might start a black metal slash kind of like high on fire style band about peppers, like spicy peppers.
Speaker: That's, that's how far gone my head is right now. I'm like, I'm going to make a band that's themed around eating pepper pods. I was going to call it pod eater. even have a logo for it. I've got a song written, but I'm just like, I don't know if I should actually commit to this. That's ridiculous. So that's when, you know, if you if you're that far gone, you need to, you need to focus on the money makers and reel it back in, but not that we're making money here, but yeah.
Speaker: So dark watcher, you've got, it looks like two EPs out and then a compilation of those, is those EPs, right? Yep. Yeah. So you had, it looks like two different vocalists on those two different EPs as well.
Speaker: Right. Yeah. It's good stuff, man. I like all of it it. So I'm definitely, you know, i mean, to be totally transparent to the audience and everybody here, I'm broke as hell right now, but I have a growing wishlist on band camp and that's on it. And it should be on yours too.
Speaker: Absolutely. Yeah. we're big we're big We're big fans of experimental black metal here for sure. like different Different styles of black metal that you don't normally hear. That's kind of what we got started with here at the label was different types of post-black metal.
Speaker: Adrian's project, I See Satan Fall Like Lightning is very atmospheric and you know, just shoegazy. And, you know, my, my thing with pull the strings goes all over the place, just depending on the release.
Speaker: But that's kind of our focus is, is like weird black metal. So it's really cool to see somebody doing something interesting with it. It's not just, you know, ah rip off of like, you know, the first wave, which is all too easy to do. And it's so overdone. Yeah. Who would be some of your influences that got you into extreme metal in general?
Speaker: And it's extreme metal. um
Speaker: Well, i my, well, the first band i was really passionate about was Metallica. um But I went through like metal core death core when I was in high school. Same here. Yep. Yeah. I'm trying to think of when I got into like black death doom.
Speaker: I guess it was, guess it was around the time graduated. remember I was posting on, um, like online forums and like rating aggregate websites and just like talking to other music nerds. And I think I probably made some lists on these sites, like a recommend me like black metal. I'm trying get into this. And I probably just went down the list there. What was the first thing I really,
Speaker: um I remember thinking stuff like Dark Throne. I didn't like Dark Throne at first that much, but then like there were favorite bands now. yeah Mayhem, lot of second wave stuff was a little bit abrasive for me. I got into the atmospheric stuff first. like ah Kaladin Brood, I really loved them for like the summoning, dungeon synth-y black metal thing.
Speaker: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool stuff. I liked post black a lot. That was easier for me to transition to, um, uh, land loss.
Speaker: I love them.
Speaker: Yeah. um I know that you know both of us got into the extreme metal genres with streaming available to us. So you just dive in and it's all there and it just floods you. and it's like So it's hard to remember the very first couple of things that you listened to. i know that feeling.
Speaker: um Luckily, I do still have all my playlists on Spotify from when I was getting into like black metal and stuff. So I can go back and look at like the artist I was checking out and everything. But yeah, it's hard for me to pinpoint, a but like I said on a couple episodes ago, like it's a whole lot easier for me to pinpoint the post black artists that inspired me because those have directly inspired my writing. You know, the, the straightforward black metal bands that I've listened to have definitely inspired the way I write drums more than anything, but the actual chords and stuff like that's mostly from the post black influence.
Speaker: So, I mean, it's a lot easier for me to just be like, yeah, so, you know, Deaf Heaven and Wolves in the throne Throne Room and all that kind of stuff is like what really influences me personally.
Speaker: That's, you know, just because what I do is post-black metal in a way. So, oh, so what about death metal on that side of things? Any, any major inspirations there?
Speaker: Uh, like, uh, just current ones or like when I was getting into extreme metal again? ah let's do both. Starting with when you got got into it. What were the first death metal bands I was into? I know I stretched into like tech death, like prog death first. Yeah. um A little bit.
Speaker: And then, you know, I did a lot of working backwards, you know, like metalcore, deathcore to like kind of modern-y bands to like, and then going back to 90s, thrash, death, black.
Speaker: I'm trying to think. and air Everybody hears Cannibal Corpse pretty quick. Oh, yeah. Yep. Big influence on me for sure. that's sorry Yeah. Cannibal Corpse.
Speaker: And, um, what was that other band? Um, not DSI, but the one that Glenn Benton was in vital remains, big influence on me too.
Speaker: um but yeah, I listened to so much now, but as far as like, probably maybe for like accurate tomb influences, I'm, I listened to a lot of death doom for the the split. Yeah. You were telling me about like demolition.
Speaker: Yeah, there's a little demolish. I was trying, there's a one one riff I was trying to do a demolish ripoff. don't know if it worked or not, but. That's a sick riff. Incantation. So I choose for the demo.
Speaker: I really like, I really like ah obliteration. They're one my favorites. Yeah. Incantation is like responsible for so much of the new wave of old school, you know, everybody's ripping them off.
Speaker: Some people do it better than others, but very, very influential band. and I'm sure they didn't realize how influential they were going to be. Yeah, that's cool. So you're into like, um, different types of death metal now, like any specific sub genres of it you really favor or anything like that?
Speaker: I try to dabble in everything if I can. Right now I've been on a pretty big Floridian kick. I've been going back listening to lot of the early, early stuff. was listening to Chuck Shouldiners.
Speaker: I think he was in, he's Mantis. I think I was listening to the Mantis demos that from like way even before death started kind of shit. I've never heard that stuff. Yeah, it's real, real. Well,
Speaker: that's cool. So you're saying you you got you got into metal like through like metalcore, nu metal, right? Or is it? I mean, think I got into Metallica from Guitar Hero when it came out. Again, all this stuff goes back to video games, but yeah, I went from Metallica to Disturb to Metalcore, basically. Yeah, so I'm guessing you're probably around the same age as I'm 35. I'll be 30 this year. Yeah, so it seems kind of yeah so like it seems like kind of like a
Speaker: People in their 30s, their first like time experiencing like all like ah American metal and stuff was ah kind of those same bands. um I remember like for me, like Lamb of God was kind of a gateway into heavier music for me.
Speaker: um But yeah like my my first experience for with like death metal was cattle decapitation. Yeah. Yeah. So, ah yeah, what were some of the metalcore and, like, bands that you listened to?
Speaker: ah the first one was Killswitch Engage. They were my favorite band from lot of my teens. Yeah. Yeah, basically i went through the new wave of American metal thing. Yeah.
Speaker: Killswitch, All That Remains, As I Lay Dying, Lame of God, those. Yeah. Killswitch was my first concert I went to. They opened for Lame of God. It was...
Speaker: Kill Switch and Shadows Fall, opening for Lamb of God. so that was 2006. I was like 15 or 16. Yeah. yeah To tie this all back into video games and Guitar Hero, the very first time I was introduced to Kill Switch and Gage was actually ah my cousin's ah husband. was ah He came into the room when I was playing Guitar Hero 3.
Speaker: And I think I was playing like devil down to Georgia or whatever that song is. And then he was like telling me about kill switch engage and how I had check them out and how all their songs were so good. And I was like, okay, whatever. But then I went home and checked them out and i was like, okay, this is amazing.
Speaker: And I think that was right after I had just discovered metal core. I think the first thing I discovered in the metal core scene was a parkway drive. I actually found them on a, it was on the Walmart MP3 website. If you guys remember that,
Speaker: And I was i found the ah found a Warped Tour sample CD on there. And Parkway Drive was the heaviest thing I'd ever heard in my life. And I remember immediately after hearing like 10 seconds of it, I like turned my speakers almost all the way up and just let it rip.
Speaker: I was like, this is just how this is supposed to be listened to, you know? But yeah, I was a big metalcore kid as well. You know, my favorite band for the longest time was the Devil Wears Prada.
Speaker: um I was into that whole... you know, just, uh, I don't know what you'd call it. Rise core thing with mice admin and, uh, Memphis may fire and the devil wears Prada and all those bands, um, was my jam asking Alexandria big time back in the day.
Speaker: And, ah of all those bands, the only one that I still like is actually the devil wears Prada. So props to them. Um, but yeah, I mean, it was, that was the thing was they had the shirts with the crazy graphics and everything. And it was just, it was like,
Speaker: It was just fun. i don't know. I enjoyed it. Warped tour was awesome. Did you ever get to go to a warped tour? Yeah, but I went to at least four times, I think. I remember I saw Delworth Prada. They were but like the last act. and It was like first or second Warped Tour That was a really great show.
Speaker: Yeah. I saw them in 2014. They were the last band and it was raining and they were like, only the survivors shall remain or something like that. It was so heavy. ah loved it.
Speaker: Um, but yeah, I mean, August Burns read like all that stuff, especially like for a long time, like all the, like, um, what would you call them? All the like, you know, Christian and and Christian adjacent metal core bands. I was into all that stuff a lot and, you know, it's definitely influenced me.
Speaker: I did go back and check out where they got their ideas for riffs from, from, from, you know, like, you know, at the gates and stuff like that. But, I don't know. it's It's part of me. like There's a little bit of core on some of the stuff that I'm doing to this day. Just a little bit, not too much.
Speaker: like i don't I don't want to make music that's in metalcore, deathcore specifically, but there's a little bit of that influence. Maybe more like Meshuggah core, but I don't know.
Speaker: Well, that's really cool, dude. I didn't know that about you. I did know that you knew about some post-hardcore, because with I think we've briefly talked about Dance Gavin Dance and how you like one of their albums, yeah which was which was surprising to me. because we obviously Obviously, I know you through a death metal project, but but that's cool. you know that's That's probably still my favorite band. Yeah.
Speaker: That's one thing I want to do. Speaking of black metal versions of things, I really want to do a black metal cover of something from Dance Gavin Dance, but like make it completely unrecognizable. you know Sure, why not?
Speaker: Just for fun. I might end up doing that with Pull the Strings. We'll see. Yeah, i don't i don't like i don't I don't think I've ever heard a song from them. so It doesn't surprise me. there They're not your cup of tea, I wouldn't say. Oh, okay.
Speaker: Especially the vocals. you You would probably just be like, this is a little gaudy, at the least. But, I mean, i don't know. Adrian here, he he tends to find the really underground stuff, and he's got he's got good death metal recommendations and black metal recommendations for sure.
Speaker: Like you were telling me about March, ray right? Yeah. Yeah. That's some sick stuff, dude. Yeah. He just came out. He just released a record like a couple days ago. Nice.
Speaker: Yeah. And then ah I guess that's another thing we could talk about is for for sure is just any, any cool shit you found on band camp recently, Brett. What was I just listening to?
Speaker: listening to the Skagos record. They're are like a Cascadian black metal type band. um They've been quiet for like a decade and they just dropped an album but last year that was really good. me pull up my bank, actually. Skagos, never heard of them.
Speaker: So where are these guys from? i assume they're northeastern or northwestern US. That's where most Cascadian bands are.
Speaker: Yeah, it was recorded in Olympia, Washington. It doesn't say where they're from. Oh, yeah, they're from Olympia, Washington. Okay, cool. yeah I guess the biggest one I listened to was Titan Blood. That's been mainstay for this month.
Speaker: That's a good band. I haven't listened to them since probably 2016, but that's a good band.
Speaker: Titan Blood. So they got anything new out? Yep, just dropped an album a couple weeks ago. i think it was couple weeks ago. Oh, nice. there tighttan you tight Titan blood. Yeah. T E i T A N blood.
Speaker: Yeah. Both of those are going in my wishlist for sure, which is ever growing and I have no way to afford, but Oh, well it's, it's the thought that counts sometimes. so
Speaker: Sweet. ye You got any plans ah for actually before we talk about future plans, you got any other projects that I don't know about? Now, I know you mentioned one, a war metal band, right?
Speaker: Yep. So what was that one all about? um It was it's like the same deal as i was talking about with Acro Tomb. I always want to just like rip somebody off on my first demo. ah It's just like I just want to make some music in style and then eventually it kind of turns into its own thing.
Speaker: Yeah. um So yeah, I just wanted to make a demo with in like the war metal style. And then it kind of we settled on like kind of a Greek, um you know, like Bronze Age theme. So we did like it was about the Trojan War.
Speaker: um then you'd have to ask the vocalist I worked with on this on the second release. cause It was like a some Greek mythology thing. I don't know. But yeah. And what was that fan's name again?
Speaker: Sinocephalus I actually don't know how to pronounce it to be honest but I can tell you if I need to I found it yeah I sounded it out we were just talking about the some of these bands the names are ridiculous ah i would i have trouble telling people like oh find this band like I can't pronounce it but so this this second album here Blood Ran in Torrents Drenched Was All the Earth that's it right?
Speaker: yep that was our first demo oh okay cool Yeah, sweet. Wishlisted as well. i'll check all that out. um That's a really cool idea for a project too.
Speaker: um So that's that's everything you got or you got anything that's like even more hidden? Um, I got something I'm working on that hasn't, you know, it's not for sure yet. I was kind of talking, I was playing around with, uh, some first wave style, black metal, old, real old school raw thrash kind thing with this guy. So we'll see if that, how that goes. I have like a couple riffs, but.
Speaker: Gotcha. It comes out. Yeah. Um, well that leads me into what I wanted to talk about with you next, which is, um, ah Like just guitar and gear talk for a little while because I know that you have your ESP Stephen Carpenter, right?
Speaker: Yep. Yeah, and that's what you recorded the accurate tune with is that seven string, right? Which is a super sick guitar. You've got like the like the emerald green one, right? Yeah, it's it's awesome. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I had the ESP version or the LTD because I had the LTD version. I ended up selling that one. I kind of regret that. Oh, you had that one?
Speaker: Yeah. I sold it like a year or two ago. Gotcha. Those are really cool guitars. Was it a newer one with the, uh, with the fishman pickups? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. He's got like eight strings, nine strings. Like he works with Kiesel now too. ah they're all really cool guitars. I'm not sure if I'm huge on the all white Kiesel, but you know, whatever.
Speaker: Um, I just like telecasters. So it kind of, it's kind of up my alley, especially for like an extended range telecaster, you know? Yeah.
Speaker: But I like kind of all guitars, anything from pointy to round and all, all things in between. What other kinds of guitars that you have? Brett? Um, I have a Gibson Les Paul studio that I think I'm going to break out for that first wave project. It feels like the kind of feels like it would fit that one. Yeah.
Speaker: Um, I usually use my, um but is It's a Schecter Damien Elite 7 with a Floyd Rose. I like to use that one for solos just because I had the Floyd Rose. yeah yeah I've got another Schecter 8-string.
Speaker: have another one? I've got a base.
Speaker: What's the 8-string? is' It's a... might be a Hellraiser. It might be a Hellraiser 8. and Okay. Nice. I think the Hellraiser 8 is like 28 inches long if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker: It's really long, yeah. which is really cool. I really like, I'm a big fan of multi-scale. Like my eight string is fan fret, you know, and um my bases are fan fret as well.
Speaker: It just makes sense to me. But if I, if I was going to go with just regular scale, like straight frets, then I would want the longer scale like that. That would help a lot.
Speaker: Yeah. I love my eight string and I had a Strandberg before as well. A Strandberg Bowden eight string that was amazing, but I had to sell it. Unfortunately. But right now I've got the Ibanez. It's like the cheapest multi-scale eight string that they make. And it's actually so sick. Like I'm so, so happy with it.
Speaker: Do you just record direct to your computer or do you have amps or what do you do for that? Yeah, I've got, know if you can see it behind me. I got a, Oh yeah. I mean sixty five so five mini um i have a some, some, uh, microphone, so I could record live if I want to, but I usually I'd use two direct.
Speaker: Yeah, so much better. I mean, not better, but so much easier for sure. and And it can sound just as good if you do it. if you If you use the right impulse responses and stuff, it can sound really, really good. So, you know, no worries there.
Speaker: That's what I do with all my stuff is direct both guitar and bass. You know, it's easier to edit after the fact if you need to. In my experience, it sounds better because I'm terrible at my king cabs. I don't what's going on. It is a little bit of science. Dude, it's so hard.
Speaker: I can't do it. I gave up Yeah. And plus, I mean, the speaker is the main thing that changes the sound. So you if you only have like one cab, then you're very limited with your guitar tone.
Speaker: So that's the that's another big reason to record direct for sure. and I mean, but everybody does it unless you're going to a studio. And like the point is to have recorded guitar tones because they have every cabin app you could ever want. Then I don't see a reason to really commit to it. It's just locking yourself into something that you can't change after the fact. So,
Speaker: okay. So we talked about guitars. We go direct. So what about amp sims and stuff? You got any favorite tones that you want to, and you can keep things secret if you want, but I mean, I love talking about this stuff.
Speaker: No, the ones I always use is, you can't buy them anymore. It was a Thermionic, or is it Thermionic who makes them, or is that just, I don't know, it's some, they have their own, they have a new amp sim, but I got this, like, pack of, like, Thermionic amp sims, so there was, like, 20 or 25, and they, you know, there's several PVs, Mesas, Marshalls, all that stuff.
Speaker: I don't know about these. Yeah, you can't buy them anymore, but I got them, and they they work really good for me, so I just stick with them. I mean, I know of the company from their studio gear, but I don't know about their plugins. I've never heard of them. Let see if I can find it in my files real quick.
Speaker: Oh, I see them here. Thermionic Suite 5 or something. Kazrog is who makes it. Gotcha. Okay, well, that makes sense. Kazrog does awesome stuff, actually. like they have a um They have a block ladder amp sim that sounds amazing now.
Speaker: I see it here, yeah. Well, that's interesting. that's That's definitely the first time I've ever heard that one come up. How long have you had that? I must have got it in 2019 when i was starting Dark Watcher. and i just you I've tried a bunch of amp sims. I was getting into like ah trying to do some audio engineering myself myself and just like you know cut costs, but I gave up on that.
Speaker: But i so I just stick with those amp sims. They do really good with me. Yeah. I mean, I would have never guessed that's what you use, but they do sound awesome from what I've heard. That's really interesting. I mean, most of the time I'm just using the neural DSP stuff, or if not those, then I use something called tone X, which is, um, not a modeler. It's a capturing thing, kind of like the, um, you know, the, uh, Kemper.
Speaker: That's what I use a lot. Um, when I want a unique amp sound that I don't have in like my plugins, I'll just go there and like search for it on there. Like, you know, they they have like a internet or not internet. They have like a,
Speaker: Tone net thing that you can search for people where people have uploaded their tones and I'll just go find something there can usually find something pretty good pretty quickly there. So I like tone X a lot, but yeah, other than that, just using the neural DSP stuff for all my projects. Most of the time, especially Fort and Cali suite.
Speaker: I use that one a lot for rhythms and then the archetype plenty. I use that one for leads and cleans and everything layers that has just all the effects you could want.
Speaker: Yeah, and then I know Adrian here, he uses, um what is it called? I can't remember. but but my amp, it's the 1111, don't know.
Speaker: Yeah, the 1111. 1111. eleven but What's that company called? ah Auto Audio? Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so that's an interesting one too, the Auto 1111. It's got a very huge wall of sound vibe to it.
Speaker: Yeah. But I think that's a lot to do with the way to mix and master. Yeah. Yeah. I got to really tame the guitars trying to for this next one, but I don't know.
Speaker: You don't got to, man. I mean, it's, it's a thing. It's a, it's a vibe if it's just like all encompassingly loud, you know? Yeah. So that's up to you. I mean, i tend to mix more clean than you for sure, but lot of people like their, their metal to be, you know,
Speaker: I don't know how to describe the way you do things. Just, just huge, you know? And it's kind of like washed, kind washed out sound, like very, and don't know.
Speaker: And that's another thing, like, you know, we could talk about this a little bit if we have like preferences for metal production, because, you know, people can have really strong opinions about that. And we do a little bit of everything here at the label from very clean and modern to very like, just, you know, kind of shitty on purpose. So what, what do you have a preference or is it kind of per band for you, Brett?
Speaker: It's definitely per band. Although I'd probably lean towards generally like raw or organic. sounds Sometimes that's like a loaded word. Um, It's definitely a loaded way to put it. It takes a lot of, um, takes a specific style for me to really get into like some really sleek, modern production styles, like some some like technical or frog death bands. Like I don't mind if the production slicker, yeah um, for most death metal, I want some like grit needs to sound kind of rotten, you know?
Speaker: Yeah. Well, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, I appreciate all shades of the spectrum personally, and it is a per band thing for me. but it can ruin an album for sure. If it's, if it's too much one way or the other for the, for the sound of that album, like I definitely have had, have had that experience where ah really liked the writing of something, but it's like, I'm not to name any names, but there's a specific album I'm thinking of where the writing is like kind of dissonant death metal, but the production is really Meshuggah.
Speaker: And it's just kind of jarring. It doesn't really fit too well. And I'm just like, I wish this was more death metal and I would like it more, but what are you going to do?
Speaker: it's easier than ever to make things sound perfect in the doll, you know, because of all the tutorials on YouTube yeah and it's actually harder than ever to make things sound organic. So I, you know, I definitely respect the organic sound for sure.
Speaker: But with that said, the, the way things are going, I feel like you're going to be able to just open a prompt in your doll and say, mix this in an organic black metal style and it'll AI do everything for you in the next five years.
Speaker: We'll see.
Speaker: ah it's ah It's probably going to be FL Studio that does it first. Those bastards.
Speaker: I have an unreasonable and unnecessary hatred for FL Studio. Sorry, everybody that uses it. Whatever you need to use to make music, if it works for you, that's amazing. That's awesome. ah just Personally, for me, I really can't stand FL Studio.
Speaker: It feels like a toy to me.
Speaker: Well, let's talk about that. What DAW do you use, man? ah Studio One. Okay. Solid choice there. Yeah. Studio one is a good, so, so I think of DAWs and categories like there's ones that are good for multi-check recording audio.
Speaker: There's ones that are good for production, like electronic music or anything that you want to produce, like whether it's symphonic music with VST instruments or electronic music. But I think of DAWs in those two categories. Usually there's ones that cross over in the middle, like Ableton crosses over pretty well, but there's,
Speaker: i I prefer multi-track audio DAWs very strongly because that's what I do. I record audio vocals, guitars, bass. I don't record real drums up very often, but okay but I need to be able to record audio really, really rapidly.
Speaker: whenever I have an idea. And so I prefer dolls like studio one. I use Cubase. um You know, I mean, there's plenty of them out there that do it really well. I would hesitate to, to make a list without including Reaper because it's a, it's the goaded choice. And I also use it sometimes.
Speaker: um It's the thinking man's doll, but, and then Adrian uses logic. That's a good choice too. You got anything to say about Logic? love i hope Well, it's the only one I've used other than GarageBand. So I'd say I love it.
Speaker: It's very user friendly. yeah you know I didn't know anything about music production when I started. So it was really easy to just get started right away and make music.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, all the buttons kind of do what they look like they should do. It's got a nice, simple interface. And it works. And the plugins that come with it are pretty good, too. Yeah. yeah I mean, most the stuff I use is just stock. And it's it's very easy to like figure out stuff. like um I don't know. I thought about trying to mess around with some other ones. But I don't know. Maybe in the future.
Speaker: But for now, I think it's pretty good. Yeah, I'll ask you about this too, Brett, but I started out with FL Studio, actually, and that's one of the reasons why I have the right to hate it.
Speaker: um But quickly realized its limitations and that it that it just wasn't designed for metal production. And so I moved on to Cubase. And the reason I use Cubase is because of periphery from sorry for because of Misha Mansour from Periphery.
Speaker: He was a proponent of Cubase. And back in 2015, he made a couple of videos about how to record guitar in Cubase. And so I was like, all right. And then I purchased it. And then I did not learn how to use it for like six years because i its it's it has a huge, steep learning curve. It is complicated. It's a power user software for sure.
Speaker: But when I finally got serious about recording my ideas and writing music, I buckled down and learned it. And now that I know it, it's it's it's just the it's the best feeling ever. just... you know i just Anything I need to do, I can just do very quickly in Cubase now, which is how you want to be with your DAW, of course.
Speaker: um But i will say, yeah, it's better to stick with what you know, Adrian, especially something as capable as logic. Like you don't have any reason to change anytime soon. you If you have a specific need for something that it doesn't do, then sure.
Speaker: But otherwise, i would just say stick with what you know kind of thing. Yeah, for sure. Studio One, I don't know a whole lot about. um Actually, the only person I really have seen on YouTube using Studio One is, um I don't know his name, but there's this guy that does a channel called recording no Mixing Music Analog.
Speaker: And he has he has a big desk, SSL console, and and it works really well for him with that. But, you know, obviously it works really well for just plugging a guitar into an interface too, from what I've seen, you know.
Speaker: But yeah, that's cool, man. Do you have any other thoughts about Studio One or anything? Is that the only doll you've ever used? um I remember when I was in i was in like a metalcore band when i was in high school. And I remember I had a pirated version of Pro Tools I used for a while.
Speaker: yeah And then when I was starting, when I started Darkwatcher for the first couple of years, I used Mixcraft. i Oh yeah. I know about Mixcraft. Yeah, I know a good bit about Mixcraft. And it and it when it works, it's great, but it's kind of a buggy software as what I've seen.
Speaker: um But it, yeah, it it has a bunch of like instruments included with it and stuff like that. So that it's helpful when you get when you're getting started like that. It's kind of a simpler DAW.
Speaker: Yeah, interesting. And Pro Tools, I absolutely cannot. at is It washes over me. It's just like, this is not usable software, as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker: It's like no better than Audacity for making actual music, as far as I'm concerned, because I just don't know how to use it. I'm sure it works great for most people, but... I hate it. Also, it's extremely expensive for what you get.
Speaker: And the free version gives you eight tracks to record on total. So what are you going to do with that? Nothing. Anyways. um yeah interesting to talk about dawes we talked about gear talked about metal um let's see what's about like how you actually ah record your tracks and like write like do you start with like lyrics or do you start with the music if you start with music like guitars bass drums like kind of how do you structure how you
Speaker: Right. So definitely answer that. But in addition, i want to ask you kind of like connected to that. Cause I think you're an author too, right? Yeah. Right. So I want to ask you just when you're writing songs, when you're writing lyrics, you know, how much of that process is like helped or hurt by being an author?
Speaker: Um, I think I just always have a really strong sense of like theme probably, or like i have a I guess, cause I try and stay away from lyrics, even though I write stories and stuff. I really try and stay away from there. Cause I'm, I feel like I'm very bad at it. I don't, it's just that writing a lyric is just totally different. from Writing a a sentence of prose.
Speaker: You know, I've written some lyrics, but usually it's when I have to. Yeah. So you start out with the music then. Yeah. And riffs first. I'm a guitar player first. i always start with a riff yeah or a melody or something.
Speaker: Yeah. And you know, this is something that's came up on the podcast before, but like, it's a big jump to go from just writing a riff to writing a full song, you know, there's a big jump for a lot of people. it It's something that can take 10 years to even figure out how to do, you know?
Speaker: So how'd that go for you? Yeah, it definitely took a long time. I mean, So like when I started Darkwasher, had like stopped playing hardly. I didn't play very much guitar in the years before that because I was in college and I didn't have a lot of time.
Speaker: And like when i started college, I was kind of into the idea of studying music. i was ah My first semester I was going for a music degree and I gave up on it. um So I just wasn't playing that much, but don't know.
Speaker: I guess it was just like having a really interesting idea of like the Western black metal thing. I just started, i had to relearn a lot of stuff. I started, I sorry um went on my way to like learn a lot of theory over again. And it just went from there. I mean, you gotta to spend a lot of time figuring out drums. I'm still figuring out how to write drums from a guitar player's perspective. yeahp I still look up videos sometimes like how to, what does this beat look like when you're punching it in MIDI, you know, um, other instruments like dark watcher, because it's like that, um, grandiose Western thing. I gotta use like trumpets sometimes or, um, I gotta learn how that looks in a MIDI, in a MIDI setting.
Speaker: Yeah. um I mean, for me, it took probably about a decade to to go from just playing riffs to be able to write a song. It's it's just a new muscle to exercise, you know? And when you when you let it atrophy, that that can be you know it could be a pain in the ass for sure. and um But like anything, you just keep working on it and you get better at it.
Speaker: You get more creative with it. I know for me, it's been so easy and it's been hard for me to let me go back to the first way I was phrasing that. It's been easy for me to get stuck in really rigid song structures because of the fact that I use easy drummer and easy drummer puts patterns into song structures. It's like intro verse, chorus, chorus, and then bridge, you know?
Speaker: And so I've always written drums that way. And so my songs have always been very basic usually. And sometimes I try to switch it up, but, yeah it's just It's been a long process getting from writing riffs to writing very basic song structures to getting actually creative with just writing whatever comes to my mind.
Speaker: And I'm not a theory guy. I don't really know too much theory. I know the names of some scales. That's about it. um you know i know how to communicate in a band setting, but very barbarian-like.
Speaker: So it's still a struggle for me, but you know I've found what works for me with metal, at least, and pop and other things. like I've kind of done a little bit of everything at this point.
Speaker: um Yeah, I mean, writing is such a deep topic, but I just, no matter what, I feel like this is everybody, even even our idols.
Speaker: I feel like you're always going to write something and then come back six months or earlier a year later and be like, man, I can do that so much better. You know, that feeling of just like, if I had known what I know now, then kind of thing, or even just if I could hear what i can hear now, then because your ear for mixing and writing and all of those things just continually, continuously evolves and it never stops till the day you die.
Speaker: But thankfully I have noticed that over time, you know, after you've done it for and enough years, you start to be a little bit more okay with the things that you put out because you've just gotten pretty good, you know?
Speaker: Which, by the way, I don't know how you feel about the stuff you've put out. You're free to talk about it if you want. But I would definitely be proud of it. It doesn't sound like you cut corners with any of it to me. Yeah, I mean, there's there's plenty. i'm not I'm not really mad at anything i wrote I've put out there. There's like stuff I'm like, I wish I did that differently. like...
Speaker: but like And you always get like reaffirmed when somebody likes it. I've got an album coming out this year for Dark Watcher, by the way. um so like I've been sitting on these demos for a couple of years and I start thinking, man, this sucks, actually. Am I really going to put this out?
Speaker: And then yeah I show it to some people and they're like they they're glowing. I was like, oh, well, yeah i'm I'm doing pretty good, actually. I guess I should keep pursuing this. Yeah, man, that that is you know kind of what we're after as studio musicians. you know it's We're after just one person really liking it, maybe once every like three months, and we're good.
Speaker: That keeps us going. yeah Yeah. And it it's that, and then also coming back to something that you wrote like a year later and being like, oh yeah, that was pretty cool. Both of those feelings are kind of what sustained me, at least, as a studio musician.
Speaker: Well, heck yeah, man. I'm excited about the Dark Watcher album. but ah I'm following you on Bandcamp and everybody listening should go do the same. Definitely follow Acrid Tomb as well. um And then ah can't pronounce it. Sinus Cephalus.
Speaker: Yeah, that one too, which is ah also out there on Bandcamp as well. um Definitely keep an eye on what Brett's up to. It's really cool stuff. It's got just a ton of vibe, a ton of character to it.
Speaker: Um, he admitted that he likes to start by ripping things off, but I think it all sounds ah original in its own way. So, you know, it's good. It's good shit. And I'm definitely happy to have been a part of the accurate tomb split that came out last year.
Speaker: So thanks again, man, for hitting me up for that. Yeah, that's great. Very cool experience. You got any, uh, any more questions, Adrian? ah covered I think we covered everything, man. that was pretty good.
Speaker: Hell yeah. I think the only thing that we have new to announce for the label is that there is a new Pull the Strings EP coming out June 27th. So you can go check out the pull the strings dot bandcamp.com if you want to follow and stay tuned for that.
Speaker: But other than that, we don't have anything else. And that'll wrap us up for this episode of Dissonant Echoes number nine. We're going to keep trucking along, folks. We've got some more interviews lined up.
Speaker: Some more friendship simulator with just me and Adrian. Bullshittery, that kind of thing. And we'll see you next time. Thanks for stopping by. Thanks for listening to Dissonant Echoes Episode 9 with Brett Tharp.
Speaker: To roll you on out of here, I'm going to finish the episode with a track from Hermetic Invocations, which is the split EP that Acrid Tomb and Tomb of Annihilation put out last year. going to roll the track Feast of the Black Archons. Enjoy.
Speaker: I get this
