Transcript
RJ Caswell: All right, we're back and Cereal for Dinner is here. You might not be at the dinner table, but we're hoping you're at the table to listen to this. And I'm here. with a friend of mine, Gabe Smith. Welcome, Gabe.
Gabe Smith: Hey, so good to be here RJ
RJ Caswell: So Gabe and I go back. I've known Gabe for quite a while. um And there's a lot of probably professional titles. Gabe has had over.
RJ Caswell: his career. from officer and missionary. Pastor. consultants. There's so many, and we'll probably get to some of those.
RJ Caswell: But Gabe, share a little bit about who you are and what you're doing right now.
Gabe Smith: Yeah, so I'm a native Charlottean, which is, you know. Kind of a rare thing these days.
RJ Caswell: here
Gabe Smith: Third generation, grew up here. um Yeah, I'm... ah married Been married 27 years and my wife, Janet, we have a 20 -year -old daughter who's a sophomore at UNCW.
Gabe Smith: So I think, you know, those are those are my most important roles. The only ones that I'm sure that I'm so i'm supposed to.
RJ Caswell: Love it.
Gabe Smith: Have the rest.
RJ Caswell: Well, first of all, I love that you started there.
Gabe Smith: Not sure.
RJ Caswell: That's the game I know.
Gabe Smith: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: You're really starting with the... the people closest to you. And I love that about you.
Gabe Smith: Yeah. Oh, man. Well, it's true. I'm leaning into that in this season. Just turned 49. So, you know, I started the 50th revolution around the sun. So that's ah I guess that's something. um Yeah, professionally, what's interesting is...
Gabe Smith: I think. I've started to think of like what I do and who I am as is really one in the same in this season of my life or at least like that's a goal of like not having kind of my work over here and then like but this is who I am and I'm truly think The last season has been a season of. trying to figure out like.
Gabe Smith: You know, how does that? converge. So I'll answer the question really around like, what am I passionate about and what I'm passionate about? is Helping leaders not walk alone.
Gabe Smith: If I had to say it.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: in in one statement because i think you know out of my story and some of that. you know you and I have shared together, RJ, leadership can just be super lonely and confusing. um i think we all struggle with this idea that we're faking it that we're imposters that we don't have what it takes and that especially in the professional world like you know,
Gabe Smith: we We have to. We have to fake it till we make it. We have to pretend. And that can just be so isolating. And I think out of that. personal experience, my desire is to walk beside leaders.
Gabe Smith: So the the metaphor I give for what I now do, which the the title on LinkedIn that I've given myself, which I totally made up, is that... Which isn't a surprise.
RJ Caswell: Well, most of linked most of LinkedIn is kind of made up. And I love LinkedIn. If anybody knows me at all, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Gabe Smith: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: I'm active. And yeah, there's always a little bit of made up stuff on LinkedIn. And that's okay.
Gabe Smith: Ah! It's what makes it fun, you know?
RJ Caswell: ah Yeah.
Gabe Smith: It's like... But ah I call myself a growth advisor. And because i really because I really come alongside. uh leaders and organizations.
Gabe Smith: who are in a growth season. and partner with them to help them in that journey of growth. And I don't really distinguish between. like personal and professional organization team individual to me it's all ah walking the road and all those are just facets of like walking the journey with different leaders. The metaphor uh I've used to describe what I do is because I was a former army infantry officer.
Gabe Smith: So if you hang around with me long enough, everything we'll come back to that at some point uh but is that i think like All leaders are in a foxhole.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Gabe Smith: And they're in a gunfight. you know it's it's
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: that you're taking incoming rounds you know and that's what it feels like when when you're leading is that you're Sometimes it feels like you're getting assaulted from all sides and you're by yourself in your foxhole. So what I do is I jump in the foxhole with you.
Gabe Smith: And. um I have a backpack as we all do full of my own experiences and tools. And my desire is to to be able to leverage my tools, my experiences, even my failures to assist.
Gabe Smith: others when i jump in the foxhole and part of that is so you're not alone part of it is i can come in with fresh eyes and see things you you can't see and help you point out like where problems are and difficulties but help you find solutions too and It's what I love, man. I just I love it so much that at this stage, like it doesn't. feel like work 90 of the time it feel i just like how am i getting paid to do this this is so fun
Gabe Smith: And so, yeah, that's that's that's what I'm doing right now.
RJ Caswell: Well, so so if we... Take that for what you're doing right now is is helping leaders not walk alone, which. Right. I know we've all heard that phrase probably a thousand times if you're in any organization or leadership position I have.
RJ Caswell: yet I still think it's true. So right, sometimes there's phrases out there that I question and go, is that really true? I do believe that one to be true. So as you look back on your... career. with a lot of different organizations you've worked for or started.
RJ Caswell: had different times. titles. um Is there a moment or multiple moments? ah way back when that you go, that really shaped. Now.
RJ Caswell: And obviously I heard the foxhole and the connection to military. But when you were in the military and you were transitioning. Did you think... all these things would hold true and they would... Fast forward or when did that revelation start? Give us a little background on that.
Gabe Smith: Yeah, well, I'll start at a... a pivotal moment and. ah I call these waterfall moments because like my metaphor is like I think we're all made to be. a river that's flowing. um And.
Gabe Smith: in. you know, offering our our gifts and our strengths. um wherever wherever we find ourselves but like along the along the flowing river sometimes there's these waterfall moments where it literally feels like you fall off a cliff and those moments are terrifying but If you keep going, they also become the places where.
Gabe Smith: you really figure things out and you really like have these moments of deep insight and somebody said you know, life is, is lived moving forward and understood looking backward. or something like that. And I think that that's definitely been my.
Gabe Smith: experience. And so One of my waterfall moments was. Around 2016, I was in living in Cape Town, South Africa, started, founded a international nonprofit. There was a missionary, um built a... Pretty sizable team.
Gabe Smith: um And. Had basically the work we were doing was coming alongside young people in their 20s which is still a group of people i'm super passionate about it's not a group i encounter a ton in my life but i just
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Gabe Smith: that's the age my daughter is now and like rj you have
RJ Caswell: Yep.
Gabe Smith: um kids in that same age range and you know it's i think what i love is it's ah it's an age of becoming
RJ Caswell: is
Gabe Smith: you know like where people are just trying to figure themselves out and it's so fun to like walk beside them so anyway we're walking beside young people in their 20s most of whom were coming out of the township communities, which is the shanty town, you know, deep, deep poverty.
Gabe Smith: And. We're trying to figure out how to how to help them grow. and one of the things that we encountered was man this this group of people had been through horrific trauma.
Gabe Smith: you know the the just the overall trauma of of abject poverty but then you know trauma violence and and even sexual abuse and lots of things that i honestly like i didn't have experience or categories to know how to navigate it and so we realized we needed help.
Gabe Smith: And so we ended up getting connected.
RJ Caswell: a
Gabe Smith: with some folks from the Allender Center at the Seattle School of. um theology and psychology. So if you've never heard of Dan Allender, you should check him out. he's
RJ Caswell: hey
Gabe Smith: uh He's a... uh a psychologist who's written prolifically about narrative therapy and so just this idea that we all have a story And that so much healing comes from just.
RJ Caswell: ah
Gabe Smith: telling our story. and creating spaces for people to tell their stories. So at any rate, we got. this group in from the allender center and they came and they did this a week long intensive with our group. And it was wildly successful. i mean for the first time people telling their stories the vulnerability and healing that that emerged from that experience was profound.
Gabe Smith: And I was taking these two. therapist back to the airport. uh this one guy's name is about 5 '5", Vietnam vet.
Gabe Smith: gray hair past his shoulders.
RJ Caswell: oh wow
Gabe Smith: uh and just like a tell it like it is kind of kind of guy and so anyway and his his other partner, Dale. um And. So. We had this routine when I would take people back to the airport, we'd stop at the mug and bean, which is a coffee chain in South Africa. And we'd have like a last coffee before.
Gabe Smith: uh they left so we're at the mug and bean and and we're just like debriefing and i'm i'm like i'm feeling like a big success as a leader like i'm leading this organization and made this great decision to bring in these guys had this awesome week and just a lot of progress and so i'm just raving about it. and like oh yeah like let's play and when can you come back and And then. Gary was like.
Gabe Smith: Well, Gabe, it it was a great success and everybody was incredibly vulnerable and participated. And then he paused and he went. Except for you
RJ Caswell: Wow. help
Gabe Smith: And man, in that moment, I felt. um I felt rage. is what I felt. I felt anger. Because as it turned out, that was the only emotion that I really could feel.
Gabe Smith: At all in that season in my life. And. So he said, I was silent. I didn't know how to respond. And so he continued. He was like, so what I want to offer you is that. I believe.
Gabe Smith: You know, I believe in you. I believe in what you're trying to do. He's like, and I want to help. He said, I want to come back in three weeks time. And I want to spend a week just with you. unpacking your story.
RJ Caswell: wow
Gabe Smith: And. um I was still feeling anger, but also like there was a realization that.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: I was being offered something that had never been offered me before. Of. Somebody saying to me. Gabe, I don't want you to walk alone. um And.
Gabe Smith: So i I reluctantly accepted and he came back and he and Dale came back in three weeks. And sure enough, we rented Airbnb at the beach. and For the first time, i I told my story. And what I that began a journey that would unravel my life. um And I realized I had never.
Gabe Smith: processed anything because I had developed this. ah skill of the i think a lot of people are familiar with of compartmentalization of just going through hard things and then just putting it in a drawer in your soul
RJ Caswell: ye
Gabe Smith: And so. That's what I had done. And when I began to tell my story. All of it. Started to. come out, leak out. um And.
Gabe Smith: it was ah It was a moment to answer your question. It was an awakening moment of realizing a whole bunch of things, of realizing. i don't have it all together realizing. I need help.
Gabe Smith: Um, realizing I've got a lot of growing to do. and realizing I have limitations. And so that, that led to me. um Actually stepping down for my.
Gabe Smith: role in moving back to the United States. Um, And honestly feeling completely lost. Like I had no plan.
RJ Caswell: you
Gabe Smith: I had an 11 -year -old daughter. I had a mortgage. i ahead And I felt depleted.
RJ Caswell: all the life All the life things that are still there.
Gabe Smith: All the life things.
RJ Caswell: Right. All the life things are...
Gabe Smith: Absolutely. and So I took three months um and was just really. trying to figure out like what to do and praying about that and Seeking. wisdom from others about that. And at any rate, that was when I started what I'm doing now. That's when I started. That's when I decided to start doing. um leadership coaching and it really came out of Um,
Gabe Smith: it It didn't come out of strength. It came out of my brokenness.
RJ Caswell: and
Gabe Smith: It came out of my desperation, if I'm being honest. that i i didn't know what to do and i just started to think like well what skills do i have like who can I help? How can I honestly, how can I make. of a living.
Gabe Smith: And. longer story for a different episode probably but like that's uh Yeah, that that was, I mean, there's many since, but that one really comes to mind is this waterfall moment.
Gabe Smith: that like changed the course of my life. and really launched me into what I'm doing now.
RJ Caswell: That's powerful to actually hear. I, of course, knew some of those pieces. I don't think I knew the intensity. of that. So um thank you, honestly, for for sharing just vulnerably right now on this.
Gabe Smith: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: it Similar question looking back. um It... it It might have started with the question Gary asked you, but it could be somebody else. But who who's somebody...
RJ Caswell: that you look back on now who actually believed in you. before you believed in yourself. like truly invested and believed in you. And you look back and go.
RJ Caswell: Yeah. That. I need to thank that person. And maybe you have. So, but if not, like.
Gabe Smith: Mm -hmm
RJ Caswell: um who who would Who would that person or persons be to go, man, we believed in Gabe before Gabe even had a clue who he was?
Gabe Smith: Wow. Man, that's a... That's an awesome question. it's it's a There's been... many. people. um I would.
Gabe Smith: Two come to mind immediately. One. just... Goes without saying, my wife, Janet. you know she's been
RJ Caswell: and
Gabe Smith: ah We started dating when I was 19, which now... you know, you and I like.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: We share in having kids that age.
RJ Caswell: um yeah
Gabe Smith: and you're like
RJ Caswell: Yes.
Gabe Smith: What was that?
RJ Caswell: Yeah, we got married young. Yeah, we got married very young.
Gabe Smith: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Gabe Smith: Yeah, and we did too. I was 21, I think. and like started dating when you're 19 and yeah and janet's just always believed in me um even when i didn't deserve it you know and and so and so continues to to to be that for me um But also the person that comes to mind is.
Gabe Smith: a guy named eric kale and eric was my uh tactical officer when i was at west point as a cadet so each cadet company has an officer kind of assigned over them just to make sure you know you're not doing any shenanigans in the barracks and stuff like that.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: But they're really a mentor assigned to like. 100 cadets. And Eric was that for me when I was a cadet. And then. uh When I left the academy and went to the army eric went back, you know left west point went back to the army. He was a field artillery officer and we ended up at fort benning together and went to the same church and kind of stayed connected through the years. And then when I was going to South Africa,
Gabe Smith: And I was raising support. i sent I sent him a support letter, he and his wife, Gigi. and uh didn't get a response and like we went to south africa and we were there for i think the first year and all out of the blue i get an email from from eric and he's like hey i'm sorry i just i'm just now responding he's like the week that We got your letter in the mail. I was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
RJ Caswell: Wow.
Gabe Smith: Okay. And he was 46 years old. And. um And he's like, but here's the deal. he's like um I want to support you. And.
Gabe Smith: I remember he goes, how's 500 bucks a month? Which at the time like meant he was our biggest per individual. supporter at the time like unbelievable generosity right and he said on top of that like i'd love to spend time with you He said, ah because Eric had a PhD in leadership development.
Gabe Smith: um and was in charge of that department at west point at the time and so he's like i'd love to have a weekly meeting and just help you Like with your program that you're doing there in South Africa. blown away. and So at any rate. Eric.
Gabe Smith: chose in what turned out to be the last year of his life. Uh,
RJ Caswell: a
Gabe Smith: Every Thursday, we had a Skype call. If you remember Skype back then, that's before.
RJ Caswell: I do. Of course I remember Skype.
Gabe Smith: Zoom and all that.
RJ Caswell: Yes.
Gabe Smith: Yeah. So we would have a Skype call and.
RJ Caswell: Yes.
Gabe Smith: um Man, every week and he. he coached me and mentored me and Um, man taught me And. um I remember the last text I got from him was he's like.
Gabe Smith: hey He's like, hey, bro, head it heading to hospice, pray for me. And he died to two days later. um And so I think about. I've had a lot of people believe in me and invest in me, but for somebody to take.
Gabe Smith: Man, if you knew like this is the last, probably the last year of your life, like. How would you spend your time? right because like time is always so precious and valuable but like when you know And I just I.
Gabe Smith: to this day it doesn't make any sense to me like i don't feel like i just deserved
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: That gift. um but man i learned so much from eric and the number one thing i learned is like how i want to die Like if I. If I ever you know get a diagnosis like that, man, the first guy I'm going to be thinking about is Eric.
Gabe Smith: And like how he lived. Um, that last year of his life
RJ Caswell: Man, that that is... um Good night. Credibly. Powerful. testimony and and story of impact. and in mentorship. And what's fascinating from what I heard from...
RJ Caswell: Both of... ah The age you met Janet and being at West Point and getting connected with ended up being a. a mentor. um maybe not as long as you and I. both would want it after hearing that for his life. But obviously it's continued on now, even at your age. is Do you think that's part of why you're drawn to?
RJ Caswell: early stage career. 20 year olds.
Gabe Smith: Hmm.
RJ Caswell: Um, from that perspective.
Gabe Smith: Wow. Man. That's fascinating. I've never thought about that. To be honest, never thought about that. um Yeah.
Gabe Smith: Probably. You know? I'm sure that had ah a great deal, and you know, and I think ah that was such a formative time in my life for sure. Just being that age.
RJ Caswell: in two very into formative relationships that...
Gabe Smith: and
Gabe Smith: That's right.
RJ Caswell: shape that. One older and mentoring, and one obviously a life partner. um
Gabe Smith: Yes. Yeah.
RJ Caswell: So.
Gabe Smith: No, I never made that connection.
RJ Caswell: Anyway.
Gabe Smith: That's a great connection you're making. I'm going to have to i'm have to journal about that one.
RJ Caswell: Yes. Yeah. And I do know you journal, that's right. well Um, So, all right, let's let's kind of, we've... Starting where you are now in the work. Some of the work you're doing with... um leaders and organizations and and kind of a ah theme of relationships back in your past up till now. but
RJ Caswell: ah What do you see a year out or two years out in either the work you're doing, your life you're you're leading? um What are some of your your hopes with that?
Gabe Smith: Man, well. You and I are, I think, have in common that like we're both kind of futurist and we're always thinking about like we have like more ideas than. time. um for sure and can get in trouble with that.
Gabe Smith: Uh,
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Gabe Smith: I think. the line that has been reverberating in, in my mind and my heart. over the last year is that like I think if I had a personal mission statement, it would simply be create more than you consume.
RJ Caswell: Wow. Alright, I'll pack that just for a minute.
Gabe Smith: Yeah.
Gabe Smith: i just I think about like. If you said, well, how like how do you get the worst of me? And like, where have ah have I been my worst? And where have I? Like.
Gabe Smith: had personal failing. It would be in consuming. too much and like You know, and I think consuming can take on so many different.
Gabe Smith: facets there's the consuming that just um you know this year health my health journey you know i've lost 63 pounds this year
RJ Caswell: Mm.
Gabe Smith: And that's a whole different story, but you know, I've struggled with my.
RJ Caswell: Rock on, by the way. Rock on.
Gabe Smith: Yeah. Well, I was inspired by you, RJ, to be honest.
RJ Caswell: Amen.
Gabe Smith: And that's not that's not flattery.
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Gabe Smith: That's we met up.
RJ Caswell: Yes.
Gabe Smith: about a year ago. Um,
RJ Caswell: Yep.
Gabe Smith: And. You had. been on your own journey and i was like whoa rj where'd you go dude like you you're like half the man used to be and i was and you started just sharing and i was inspired by that and
RJ Caswell: Yeah.
Gabe Smith: And so. um you know, There's just been, I think a lifelong theme of consuming food. as a way to to um self -medicate my pain.
Gabe Smith: um and loneliness and things like that.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: And so sort of rejecting that. um But there's other forms of consumption. I think you know I'm prone to consume you know too much TV, just binge.
Gabe Smith: watch things, you know, not for the sake of like. art you know because there can be awesome you know i think i love like a great movie or great show or you know whatever. but there's this cons when we consume things just for the sake of consuming i think it just kills us a little bit slowly over time.
Gabe Smith: at least that's been my experience i also think we can consume people when we think of relationships is transactional. That's a way to consume. people and i think i've definitely been guilty of that in different periods of time through the years and experienced that.
Gabe Smith: you know being on the receiving end of that too feeling consumed used you know and how terrible that feels and so
RJ Caswell: no
Gabe Smith: the opposite of of consuming i think for a long time i thought it was you know discipline it's like stop that you know it's like don't do that discipline yourself you know And I think what I've realized is it's not, it's creating.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: And that like we're made to create and you get the best of me when i'm creating because that's I think when we're modeling you know our heavenly father is a creator you know and things being made in the image of god largely to me means that like we're we're meant to co -create.
Gabe Smith: and it's what i love doing and so for me it's just kind of this macro goal of waking up every day and going hey what what am i being invited in to create today and so as a coach like executive coach growth advisor I view that as like.
Gabe Smith: Um, I'm co -creating transformation with my client. for their life for their business like i get to be a part i'm not responsible for it i'm a co -creator with them
RJ Caswell: and
Gabe Smith: In it. And I think like, and that we get to create beautiful things. for themselves, for others. um I just wrote a book that. comes out. um Hopefully.
RJ Caswell: I was about to ask you about that.
Gabe Smith: Lord willing, next month.
RJ Caswell: You've already taken my question.
Gabe Smith: Yeah. Yeah.
RJ Caswell: So that's awesome. Tell us. Tell us about that book.
Gabe Smith: Yeah.
RJ Caswell: is it Does it have a theme of create in it? Or is that book number two, create more than you consume?
Gabe Smith: I think that might be book number two. um
RJ Caswell: All right.
Gabe Smith: yeah yeah yeah i heard it here first the idea emerged from cereal for dinner um so
RJ Caswell: Heard it here first. Amen. Yeah. Yeah.
Gabe Smith: Yeah, it the book is is um called Congruent. um And it's all about. The power of alignment in your life about when you align your identity and your value system and your behavior you become like that River that that flows and that like you become incongruent which happens in drift slowly over time we drift away and either.
Gabe Smith: Have never really known our identity or drift away from. our true self because always somebody said you know the goal should be
RJ Caswell: oh
Gabe Smith: in life should be you know becoming your true self fully alive and i i think that's true um But like we drift away from who we really are. um We drift away from our value systems over time.
Gabe Smith: um Or we just don't name them. And so then. We make decisions and choices that are just out of alignment with who we really are and like what we really really think is important. and we lose energy and power and find ourselves stuck and so i just I wrote the book like for the people I'm working with. um Because.
Gabe Smith: I just started to see this theme of like people getting stuck. And like. over the last 10 years, like why, why? you know, with in my experience with what i've seen like why do people get stuck and so i Really, it was a pursuit to try to create.
Gabe Smith: something to help people. um to take. you know. years of experience and observation and put it into. really it's it's a book that has a lot of tools because my goal was like hey if you aren't going to work with me that's fine i still want you to i still want you to live a congruent life and i want to create something that can really help people so that was the idea
Gabe Smith: But it was a. you know matt it took me a year to to write and um so for the last year that was the tangible way that I was like creating something. um you know Literally every day I had a writing assignment for the last year and it was super challenging.
Gabe Smith: um So yeah, but I think like I'm just sort of view things through that lens of like. creating transformation, creating resources, creating opportunities. And there's just something very life -giving about that posture.
Gabe Smith: instead And it feels. like invitation and less like striving or like I have to like have everything figured out. um and more like wow i get to play i guess that's a word i would use and i don't think i'm a very playful person i'm a very serious person
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: But I think I'm being invited into a season. you know As I head into my 50s, where my goal is just to do work every year. that feels more and more like creating and play and So my goal.
Gabe Smith: I don't have I don't want to retire. i don't i want it My goal is every year to do work that feels more congruent, more aligned, more playful, more creating. so that man like with god's help like i hope i hope i'm doing this like the day i you know, go to be with the Lord.
RJ Caswell: yeah
Gabe Smith: um I hope I die on a coaching call. So...
RJ Caswell: Yeah. Well, ah it is a beautiful picture of of your experience. brought up to the present and casting it to the future. um which I think is is just a beautiful. picture of that. um And knowing that book number two is now going to be started. So that's pretty awesome. But for folks to to... Hear more about book number one, Congruent, or find more about your work how would somebody find out about?
RJ Caswell: Gabe Smith.
Gabe Smith: Yeah, the best place is just to go to my website. It's gavesmith .work, W -O -R -K. um And you can find like all the. the links to my my writing and there's, I think there's even a link where you can get time. with me if you'd if you'd like to do that as well.
Gabe Smith: um and i put out a weekly newsletter too that you can
RJ Caswell: well
Gabe Smith: where i'm trying it And the point of that is just creating, trying to create. so something of value for people to help them in their daily life and you can sign up for that there too
RJ Caswell: I used the word create again. I love that. So...
Gabe Smith: There it is.
RJ Caswell: All right, so as we wind this down a little bit, and there'll be ways to get in touch with Gabe in the show notes as well for everybody. Gabe, you know this this is the last question that's coming up. And it's one I know you've prepared for.
RJ Caswell: You've put some thought to maybe even put a poll out with your family. I don't know. because it is a critical place. for the podcast to... to finish and to land.
RJ Caswell: So I ask you. Friend to friend. You're in the grocery store. Janet's out of town. Daughters of college. You don't want to cook anything.
RJ Caswell: until you're going old school. and you're doing cereal. for dinner. What are you picking off the shelves?
Gabe Smith: There's only one answer for me, RJ. It's a... Family -sized box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch. Which.
RJ Caswell: There you go. Only one choice.
Gabe Smith: I... I will eat in a mixing bowl. The entire box.
RJ Caswell: um
Gabe Smith: You know?
RJ Caswell: Cinnamon Toast Crunch. There you have it. That is, um I think, a strong choice. by the way. ah Maybe one day as a podcast continues to grow and develop, we'll we'll put some research out on.
Gabe Smith: Thank you.
RJ Caswell: on this serial choice. And something tells me... Cinnamon Toast Crunch is going to be up there. So, man, thank you.
Gabe Smith: It's a classic. It's a classic.
RJ Caswell: It is. it is It is a classic, and it's good, and it's hard to only have one bowl. And that might be the determining factor on what serial people pick. you know Which are you going back to for that that second bowl? um
Gabe Smith: It's true.
RJ Caswell: But thank you. um Friend to friend, i'm I'm grateful you came on and shared a part of your story. Thank you, and um that's all for now.
