Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to Trials and Tribulations, a podcast sponsored by the Clinical Research Alliance at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine.
Speaker: I'm Michael Sledge. I am your co-host and I am the Chief Business Officer for the CRA. And I'm John Buse, your other co-host. I'm a diabetes clinical trialist and a professor of medicine.
Speaker: And we're very fortunate today to have as a guest, Ms. Susie Moist. ah And maybe I could start off by asking Susie, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us how you got to be guest on this ah on this program?
Speaker: Sure. It's great to be here. I am Susie Moist. I am currently the Director of Clinical Trial Operations at the Center for Gastrointestinal Biology and Diseases at UNC.
Speaker: How I got here, I started my career research in Florida in the early 2000s as a study coordinator. i worked at a pediatric epidemiology center after being a study coordinator as a clinical research administrator.
Speaker: And then I moved back here to North Carolina and was recruited by both UNC and Duke 2010 and decided to go with UNC and have been here happily ever since. So for the past 16 years, I've been here in the GI group. So I have worked up from being a study coordinator to a project manager and project director to now directing our entire portfolio of projects.
Speaker: So as, and then I guess I've just become known around the UNC world and I've been the chair of the network for research professionals for the past two years at UNC.
Speaker: And I'm also helping with other UNC initiatives. So you said that you started out as a clinical research coordinator. well You started in high school as a clinical research coordinator, in elementary school, did you go to college? Yeah. What was the stuff before that?
Speaker: Sure. So I went to Penn State, and which is a massive research institution as well. Surprisingly, I did not know much about research in undergrad.
Speaker: I think I did the minimum necessary to graduate. I think I did one project, maybe two. You had to participate in a couple studies and then you had to um have your own. But research was not at all on my radar of a career choice. um So I just happened upon it when I moved to Florida and got a job.
Speaker: I actually wasn't even considered a clinical research coordinator. was a research assistant. at a substance abuse treatment facility. So really I was just kind of thrown into this role of figuring out how to do the things in a small organization working on investigational drug studies for treating substance abuse conditions. So that really opened my eyes to research and I worked my way up and in that job and I realized that it really could be a career
Speaker: So yeah, i didn' it was not on the radar for me in undergrad. It was after graduating that life happened to put in my lap. This story, I think, will keep coming up as we interview other people. I think people who stumble to clinical research all of a sudden can get super excited about it because you know as a as someone that doesn't have a lot of skills and a lot of experience,
Speaker: you can really make a difference in the world and a difference in people's lives, you know, which is and really inspiring, i think, uh, in young people starting out in clinical research. And as you so well have demonstrated, there is clearly a career trajectory, uh, for the clinical research coordinators.
Speaker: Yeah. And it never gets old. It it's exciting. Things are constantly changing and yeah, it's a great, it's been so exciting. And just seeing the, um, the patient experience as well.
Speaker: I'm not a doctor, i have no desire to be a doctor or in the clinician of any kind, but to be part of that team and to see the positive impact that research can have on people's lives, it it really is, it's the bigger picture and getting to live that every day is is phenomenal.
Speaker: Well, shout out to the Nittany Lions, Susie. They won their first big one on Saturday under the Matt Campbell era. you You might remember this or not.
Speaker: We'll be watching every Penn State game at our house because when that beautiful young lady runs out on the field because a Penn State player is down, that's my daughter because she's an athletic trainer with the team. Yeah.
Speaker: Very good. So a quick framing. In this episode, we're going to have a field guide to the terms that decide or the forces at play that eventually determine whether a trial starts or stalls. And the ground rules for this episode is that as we talk about each one of these acronyms, ah we want a one sentence plain description ah before ah we we talk about anything else ah again.
Speaker: All right. This is the part where I do our disclaimer. So the show is for informational purposes only. We are not dispensing medical advice. You should seek that from your medical professionals. um So as we start this segment, maybe just a moment for me about why the vocabulary matters. but You know, we're going to talk about these acronyms and what they mean and what they stand for.
Speaker: um You know, one of the practical things we've seen, Susie, know you've seen this a lot more probably than either one of us, is the cost of confusion, right? When people don't know where to go or who to see or what's next.
Speaker: um And a study can get routed to the wrong place or it can start in the wrong place and all that equates to delays. And we've talked in prior episodes about the cost of delays. So we want to get rid of confusion here.
Speaker: and help people understand what these acronyms are. And a lot of these acronyms are sort of in the common parlance. I mean, it's a word that doctors throw around when they're talking to each other or that you'll even see in the newspaper, but its implications and importance can be very different in the clinical research ah workspace.
Speaker: Sure. And i I've experienced this firsthand recently with delays from acronym issues. ah And I will say that there are, you know, research wide acronyms, but then UNC has a wonderful way of creating their own acronyms that just add additional layers and more confusion to the process.
Speaker: Do tell. We always like people to dish about recent problems.
Speaker: No. So, all right. So our most recent acronym trouble, it's it's a really deep acronym issue. So when you have an investigator-initiated trial, it has to go through some kind of scientific review.
Speaker: So sometimes that scientific review is handled by the NIH, but if you do not have a federally funded investigator-initiated trial, you need additional scientific review.
Speaker: UNC has two scientific review committees, the SRC, the Scientific Review Committee, and then there is the PRC, the Protocol Review Committee, Both provide scientific reviews for investigator-initiated trials.
Speaker: One handles trials that are considered oncology studies and the other handles non-oncology. Well, we routed our study to the non-oncology group because we did not think it was a cancer study.
Speaker: Turns out we were not correct and it was determined it is a cancer study. And so we lost two weeks Because it was not able to be reviewed by IRB review because we submitted it to the wrong committee, responded to the SRC's committee guidance, got SRC approval and everything. We're ready to go.
Speaker: And then IRB said, no, this is actually needs to go to a different committee because it's a cancer study. And I think we can stop this episode right here because we just got an example of how somebody that's been here for 16 years and it and she is one of those names that like if you're going to do something in the clinical trial space at UNC and you want an expert, her name going to come up every time in the top five of people to talk to. So that's a perfect segue into what we're going to talk about. So thank you, Susie, for that. um
Speaker: So but the sort of through line for all of this for today is sort of that thread that takes us through kind of everything we're going to talk about. And one way to think about the through line, I think, today is to think about these acronyms are sort of a map of responsibilities because you'll go to whatever that acronym is to accomplish whatever it is you want to accomplish. And that's the group that has to help you.
Speaker: So if you're going to get a delay, A lot of times that delay is going to come because you took a wrong turn on the map and you ended up at the SRC or the PRC and you should have been at the other place, right? All right. So let's kick it off and talk a little bit about who does what at UNC. I'll start this before Susie asks you to jump in and start talking about some things.
Speaker: So even that term UNC, right? We use that, many of us just say UNC and we think we're talking about the university, but what is the university? Well, UNC is, there's the UNC system, right? Which in North Carolina encompasses all the 16 or 17 universities. So that's UNC.
Speaker: There is UNC Chapel Hill, which is the university in Chapel Hill that's a part of that system. There's the UNC School of Medicine, which is where all of us work and are a part of what goes on in there. And that's where most of the type of clinical research we're going to be talking about happens.
Speaker: um Then there's UNC Health, right, which is the health system that is part of the UNC system, but it's not part of the university. And, you know, it is also sort of the place where the clinical research happens that we're talking about. So, you know, that's the the the clear line we need to talk about. you were talking about earlier, John, of like, we got to define something.
Speaker: What does UNC mean when we're talking about that? would say UNC probably means we're talking about the university. in Chapel Hill. Right. All right. Can we agree on that one as a group, maybe?
Speaker: So much. so Great. All right. so So there's a bunch of other ones we can talk about in this segment. The the first one I'll come i'll name is CRA. I mentioned that in the the introduction part, the Clinical Research Alliance. You know, that's the part of the School of Medicine that is the coordinating center for the multi-site academic and federally funded trials.
Speaker: that are going to be led by UNC investigators. So we think that one's pretty clear, what the CRA does. um what What about CRP? Tell us about that one, Susie.
Speaker: So the CRP is a joint venture between UNC and UNC Health. So a joint venture between the university and UNC Health. And their real mission and goal is to expand research throughout the entire state.
Speaker: to improve access to our amazing clinical trials and research studies to anyone in the state of North Carolina. So they have projects that are within scope. So most of the studies that they support are going to be industry sponsored clinical trials.
Speaker: All right, thank you. I think that's pretty clear. um Now let's get into some of these other offices at the university at UNC and talk about those.
Speaker: OCR, what the heck is that? Office of Clinical Research. So that one's actually UNC Health office that helps university investigators in studies when they are working at UNC Health sites. So they're going to be collaborating closely with CRP, um but they help with any with getting research studies out to UNC Health sites.
Speaker: Okay. And then what's this OSP? What is that one? Oh, OSP. That's our Office of Sponsored Projects. It also, the other thing I'll say is some of these offices change their name over time.
Speaker: So that's always exciting to keep up with as well. I think OSP used to be OSR, Office of Sponsored Research, but now they are the Office of Sponsored Projects. ah So they handle pre-award support um and contract and agreement negotiations and subawards and federally funded trials.
Speaker: And so they've were the only game in town for contracting until CRP came along. So CRP now handles some contracting, whereas OSP handles everything else.
Speaker: Okay, and then how does OSP relate to this one, OVCR? I would consider OSP within OVCR. I feel like OVCR is the Office of Vice Chancellor for Research, and they oversee all of the various offices supporting research at UNC. So there's also...
Speaker: ah You mentioned OCR, Office of Clinical Research. There's also the ORC, which is the Office of Research Compliance, which is within the OVCR umbrella.
Speaker: um So yeah, there's a lot of ah lot of players, a lot of offices, a lot of acronyms. it It can get pretty confusing. All another one we often talk about is NC Tracks. We've talked about that in prior episodes. John probably knows more about that than anybody. John, what's what's NC Tracks? Just a briefer for people.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a federally funded ah institute, the North Carolina Translational and Clinical Sciences Institute, ah that's charged with ah creating infrastructure that makes things better, makes clinical research better, cheaper, faster at UNC. And the way I think about it,
Speaker: is for the more naive investigator, they can provide everything you need. Space, study coordinators, um um grant writing capabilities. and So if you have a good idea, but you don't really have the tools to get it done, TRACS can often help.
Speaker: Great. All right, Susie, let's wrap up this section on who does what at UNC. Did we miss any big pieces that you have to deal with?
Speaker: OHRE? oh good catch. What's that one? i just i call They're synonymous with IRB, Office of Human Research and Ethics. They run the IRB.
Speaker: Great, great. That's a good one. Yeah. Well, think the importance in that sort of the framing concept that you brought up earlier, ah Michael, is, ah and this is true, I suspect, at almost every institution, you need to know these acronyms to decide where do you go ah when you either have a a potential sponsor come to you and say, hey, you know we'd like you to do this trial.
Speaker: You need to go to the right office. um And basically at UNC, if it's an industry-sponsored trial, that would be to go to CRP. If it's federally funded, that would definitely be to go to OSP. um If you need help putting together a multicenter trial, you would go to CRA. And if you don't really have much in the way of resources, ah but you have a good idea, then you could go to TRAX.
Speaker: um But if you don't understand the language and you get advice, it's it's just bewildering. It probably still is after our conversation. Perfect. That's a great summary.
Speaker: all right, John, take us through what's next. Yeah, I get to grill Susie in round two on the gates a study passes through. So first, the IRB. What's that?
Speaker: The Institutional Review Board, and they review all research involving human subjects to ensure that the safety and welfare of participants is protected.
Speaker: Fantastic. So there's often, particularly with industry trials, ah multicenter trials, a single IRB and reliance agreements.
Speaker: Tell us about that. So a single IRB means that all participating sites in a trial rely on the same IRB. Long ago, it was every site had their own IRB approval. And so you had 50, 100 plus various IRBs reviewing a study.
Speaker: But now with single site and central IRBs, you can have one IRB reviewing the study of every site. They receive all of the study materials from each site. They review all of the promptly reportable information or you persons that might happen at each site.
Speaker: um It streamlines the process and it just involves, it allows for better oversight of the trial. Very good. The reliance agreement part is what you have to have in place in order for when you have an IRB, like we do UNC IRB, we have to have a reliance agreement in place in order to rely to c seed that ah that review of that study or that project to an external IRB. And the the good news about single IRBs, and we talked in a prior episode, that you need everybody on the team across all sites doing exactly the same thing. Having one single IRB instead of every site having their own IRB makes it a little bit ah easier to have that happen.
Speaker: How about IND and IDE? And those things come from the FDA. They're all fun things. The U.S., folks should likely be familiar with the FDA, the US Food and Drug Administration.
Speaker: So the FDA can approve an IND application, which is an application for an investigational new drug. It's required in order to study a drug in humans that has not been approved for that type of use. So you need, if you're going to study a new drug for a new indication in patients or humans, then you need to have an IND approved by the FDA.
Speaker: An IDE is an investigational device exemption, which allows you to test a new medical device on human subjects. So you need an IDE or an IDE exemption from the FDA before you can ship a medical device or use it or test it in humans.
Speaker: And the FDA? The Food and Drug Administration, they oversee... all the foods and drugs, and they are heavily involved in our trials. You actually need your, if your study is subject to an IND or IDE regulations, and you actually need those in place before you can go to IRB.
Speaker: And, you know, just as a practical matter, ah what I would say is that as an investigator at UNC, ah if you, ah you know, if you put together an IND, you may have to have a meeting with the FDA before. ah and or a meeting with the FDA after, or they might just send you a letter and say proceed.
Speaker: and So it can be ah a variable experience depending on the nature of the research that you do. And then what we all have ah experiences. If you do an FDA regulated trial, they can come visit your site and ask to see every piece of paper that you've generated um um and spend several days with you and your staff and making sure that everything is done right.
Speaker: i How about the DSMB? The Data and Safety Monitoring Board can also be called a DSMC, the Data and Safety Monitoring Committee. But they review trial data to ensure the safety of the study and also potentially efficacy so they can decide if a study should continue to keep running or not.
Speaker: And I will mention regarding the FDA, the the visits that they can just come knock on your door whenever. They don't give you a heads up when they want to come check out your records. And then if you are submitting an IND to the FDA, they do have 30 days to respond. um Just make sure you don't do that before you go on vacation because throughout that 30 days, they will be emailing you and asking you for responses within 24 to 48 hours.
Speaker: So keep that in mind as well. And then, you know, the other thing about DSMBs, sometimes just for kicks, is instead of calling them a DSMB or a DSMC, they might call them an IDMC, an independent data monitoring committee. so And not every study needs to have a DSMB or IDMC or DSMC.
Speaker: Every study needs to have a monitoring plan, ah but sometimes that's done internally. i And then... um Not an acronym, but in general, ah as far as the gates the study passes through, ah what we've talked about on prior episodes is really the contracting is the most, ah you know, in many ways, the rate limiting step of getting these projects going.
Speaker: ah Any comments on that process, Susie? Yeah, it's it. I feel like it used to be a very straightforward process, but it has gotten more and more complicated, but you you do need a sub-award and contract in place with relevant parties before you can begin your trial, before you can share data.
Speaker: if They outline not just, you know, contractual obligations about publication rules and data sharing and data access and confidentiality, but also the financial obligations of the trial.
Speaker: So we've had, I would There's a lot of language in these agreements and it's very important to review them to ensure that you agree to all of the terms of them, but also that they cover everything that you want to do with that study data and ensuring that everybody's in agreement with all of the language used in those.
Speaker: All right, before we go to segment three, what about this 1572 thing? We didn't touch on that one That's not a letter acronym, but it's not, what the heck is that document?
Speaker: it's It's a document that's that that outlines all of the locations. i don't want to call them sites. That gets more confusing. But all the the relevant locations involved in the study.
Speaker: um It will you list what the IVA of record is, any locations where you're going to be seeing research patients and conducting the study, any laboratories that are going to be used.
Speaker: So, yeah, so it it it details where the trial is going to happen. and the investigators agreement to do the trial. Okay, let's talk about the money and the networks and some of these places have actually fund us. So the a NIH, what's that one National Institutes of Health. They are probably our biggest federal funder of our clinical trials and research studies.
Speaker: I'm not even gonna get into all the various institutes within the and NIH. I know our big one is NIDDK, which is a lot of digestive disease trial funding. So they They're a ah ah huge funder of of research studies um at in academia.
Speaker: Yeah. And within typically the NIH, we'll talk about networks. So one that we have at the cr CRA, for example, is the ACTG, which is one of the very large sort of HIV trial networks that the NIH has been funding for years. Also happens to be the network that they put a lot put the COVID vaccine trials through. So What can you think of another network within the and NIH that you guys are a part of, maybe?
Speaker: Or John, if you can think of one. Well, I've worked with a group called TrialNet, ah funded by NIDDK, and in in part by the NIAID, the National Institutes of Allergy Immunology,
Speaker: um And they, TrialNet is a consortium that runs trials in the type 1 diabetes prevention and cure space.
Speaker: um But, know, almost every disease state has several of these ah clinical trial ah networks involved. I know, fun fact, I used to be a CRA on TrialNet, Dr. V. It's back in Fulton.
Speaker: I worked at the epidemiology center that helped coordinate large network. But yeah, we work on a number of them. We have Beacon, BetterNet, Seeger. These are all and NIH funded large network groups that are em investing certain kinds of GI conditions.
Speaker: Okay. Now, while it's not an acronym, when we say industry, who is who are we referring to there? Pharma, mostly. Yeah. Any non-federal um non federal funders, mostly pharma, but there are others like Sometimes PCORI is considered industry, but it's one of those. It's not federal, but it's not industry, but it's in the middle.
Speaker: So, yeah. So but typically when we're talking industry, we're talking non-federal. And then also, we've seen trials and and different types of clinical research get funded by technology companies right home as well. You mentioned PCORI. That's a good one.
Speaker: we used to call it the DOD, the Department of Defense. Now it's the Department of War. All kinds of foundations out there. So lot of acronyms in that space.
Speaker: um John, take us to take us home here on segment four. Lundgren- Yeah, and so what we're going to talk about now is the people. So my role in the clinical research ah space is generally as PI or site PI, and PI stands for principal investigator. And then site PI just means the principal investigator at a site.
Speaker: So there might be a trial that has dozens or hundreds of sites. There's one PI, but then there'll be a site PI at each of those a locations.
Speaker: um And, you know, the important thing to realize that we we talked about a bit in some of the prior episodes is that the the big PI, the PI of the whole trial, can ah sometimes be a very daunting job depending on how the duties are spread around. In some ways, the site PI is even more daunting because usually there isn't a whole team surrounding you to to make sure that you get everything done the right way. And particularly with small teams, site PI and a single study coordinator, there is a whole lot of acronyms you have to be familiar with if you're going to pull it off without getting into trouble when the FDA visits town.
Speaker: um So Susie, you mentioned that you started as a CRC. Right. now Yeah. So CRCs, they, first, there's so many different terms used for the person that does the boots on the ground and is running that trial. I'd say CRC is the most commonly used term for a clinical research coordinator. They also might be called a study coordinator.
Speaker: Some groups have different org charts where they'll have a research assistant. clinical research coordinator, research manager, but these are all the people that are actually making the trial run ah at the patient-facing level.
Speaker: So they're recruiting the patients, they're obtaining informed consent, they're collecting the data, they're collecting the samples, they're processing the samples, they're shipping them, they're entering the data, they're responding to queries. So that's really, that's ah what we in my group call the the quarterback of the show.
Speaker: They handle everything for the trial. Now some groups might have somebody who focuses on patient facing recruitment, like a patient coordinator, and then another person who handles data entry.
Speaker: But typically CRC is really referring to the person who is making sure the protocol is being run in accordance with how it was written and ensuring that the patients are recruited, the data entered is accurate, and IRB is approved and updated and maintained throughout the course of the study.
Speaker: Yeah, and as teams get bigger and more complicated, it allows people to sort of work at the top of their ah their training and skill level.
Speaker: and So you have a manager that's running a group of 10 investigators and 100 study coordinators um using all of their management skills. um And then in a small team, you know, maybe the first team Additional person that you get is a research assistant who will do a lot of the data data and ah entry, you know labeling tubes, ah doing things that don't require the same knowledge and training, ah allowing the clinical research coordinator to do what the clinical research coordinator uniquely can do. So ah many layers and big teams ah often create ah efficiency in clinical trials.
Speaker: um So tell us about ah ah about and NRP. You mentioned that before. Yeah. So the UNC NRP is a network for research professionals and it's a peer led group of just research professionals at UNC. It's open to anyone who's involved in human subjects research.
Speaker: And what makes it unique is that it is a peer led group. So it is it has no real org chart. Yes, we have a leadership team and a steering committee, but it is kind of the the safe place to ask the dumb questions at UNC. So a lot of times there are these large meetings and manager meetings, but there are some big names on that Zoom board. And you might be terrified to ask your little question as a new hire at UNC, just got our first study, like step one, where do I go?
Speaker: um So it's it's a great space for people to ask those questions, raise their hand and say, I'm new and totally confused without fear of repercussion, although that would not happen anywhere. But there's that fear that some might have in speaking in a large space with lots of folks present. So we connect each other. We connect with each other. We connect new folks to resources at UNC. We can kind of try and you know answer questions that folks have. But it's really like, mean, I use it all the time with my peers and I've been here for 16 years. They'll say, you know, running into this problem, has anybody else faced this? And how'd you overcome it? Because every week something new is happening. There's some new issue, barrier, complication, a new regulation, an updated clinical practice guideline. And we're all just kind of learning from each other.
Speaker: about what the best practices are at UNC. And seeing that's the real goal is just to kind of collaborate and communicate best practices. Yeah, it's ah it's an amazing resource. And i think the thing that is underappreciated in the general public in particular, but even within ah research groups is that, you know, when clinical research coordinators ah are hired on to help with a research project,
Speaker: they really need to know what's going on, everything that we've mentioned so far. The site PI does provide oversight for the study, ah but the you know the critical element is the clinical research coordinator. So this network of research professionals, or and NRP, allows ah you know ah allows for sort of group knowledge to ah to percolate into every team.
Speaker: um And we're going to talk more about the clinical research coordinator role in our next episode ah with Rachel Unger, clinical research coordinator from ah from the Diabetes Clinical Trials Group.
Speaker: And then lastly, I just wanted to mention GLP-1. Everybody has heard about this from the newspaper, ah from ah Instagram, from ah the morning news show, television news.
Speaker: GLP-1 stands for glucagon-like peptide 1. It's an amino acid produced by intestinal cells. epithelial cells, so the lining of the intestine that has profound effects on insulin production and ah and ah controlling appetite and turned into a blockbuster drug.
Speaker: But the only way we got to GLP-1 being one of the most common acronyms in the newspaper magazine every day is from all these other acronyms, the FDA, the CRC, the PI, the IRB, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker: John, that's um that's a great example to close out that segment. So we've got a couple of recurring segments.
Speaker: The first one is called myth versus fact. I'm going to read the myth and our guest is going to call it. So Susie, you're up. All right. Myth, myth or fact, the IRB exists to slow research down.
Speaker: I think the wrong week to ask me that question. No, the IRB is not there. That is a myth. They are not there to slow research down. They actually,
Speaker: are an extremely important element to clinical research. And if you're finding that you are receiving stipulations from the IRB and not just getting approval right away, and you're getting a laundry list of stipulations, it's likely because you did not take the time to either you know complete your application correctly, to really review that informed consent language, and you were just kind of trying to do the least to get this through, and that's never going to fly with IRB. They have great analysts there that are going to review every application, every consent form to make sure things are consistent.
Speaker: And also, you have to make sure that you're going to IRB with you know studies that are feasible and a protocol that's well written. So if, you know, they they might have questions about your protocol. So you have to really ensure that you are putting your best foot forward before you click click that submit button to IRB.
Speaker: All right. That's well said.
Speaker: Okay. Let's go to game time. So game time is where I tie a moment in sports to clinical research. And we're going to try to keep it kind of light as we do this. So every sport has a language that sounds like nonsense from the outside.
Speaker: The nickel package, pick and roll, hit and run. To a fan, it's a shorthand for a decision that has to happen in half a second. Clinical research is the same.
Speaker: IRB, IND, subaward, single IRB reliance. From the outside, it's noise. From the inside, each one is a decision with a name on it. And the whole team knows who makes it And like any sport, the people who know the and the language are able to react instantly and move forward. And the people who don't know the language can end up bobbling the ball, going out of bounds, et cetera, et cetera, to continue the sports analogy.
Speaker: Okay. let's ah Let's wrap it up here. So let's recap that through line we talked about. There's an alphabet suit of acronyms that define who knows what.
Speaker: So think of it like roadmap, and it's an interstate number, or it's a highway number, or whatever. If you know which highway you're going to take and what each acronym stands for, you're probably not going to take that wrong turn, and you'll be able to get your research done faster.
Speaker: um Let's take a minute and thank our guests. Susie, it's been fantastic to have you here. i think people can see why your name comes up so much when the list of experts is mentioned. So thank you for joining us today.
Speaker: Love to be here. Thanks so much for thinking of me and inviting me. It's a good time. um Okay, John, you mentioned earlier, tease us on next episode, episode four. Yeah, episode four is talking to one of the best study coordinators that I have ever worked with. Her name is Rachel Unger, um and she has a story ah a bit like Susie's story, but more focused on the transformation that she was able to do for our team in the endocrine is called another acronym, Endocrinology, Diabetes and Obesity Clinical Research Unit, endocrine.
Speaker: Okay. Again, thanks to Susie. We want to thank our listeners. um Please share this podcast with your friends. We'd like to invite researchers, coordinators, sponsors, partners, community members.
Speaker: If you've got an interest in clinical research or a stakeholder, we'd love to have you listen to us. So we're signing off for now. Again, I'm Michael Sledge. Thanks for joining us. John?
Speaker: It's been a pleasure. And Susie, thanks again. Thank you.
