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Mary Ep 30
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Mary Ep 30
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Transcript
Introduction to Mary Matthew and Beyond Cancer LA
00:00:01
Dr Colin Goodwin
Mary Matthew is a licensed psychotherapist and founder of Beyond Cancer LA, a ah private practice dedicated to serving those affected by cancer. Her private practice offers counseling services to cancer patients, survivors, and caregivers, focusing on issues such as depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress.
Mary's Personal Cancer Journey
00:00:20
Dr Colin Goodwin
Thank you so much for being a guest and welcome.
00:00:22
Mary Mathew, LMFT
and me Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:25
Dr Colin Goodwin
We, are always so interested in how ah then those in the cancer field then get into the profession. I wanted to ask what brought you into the cancer field?
00:00:37
Mary Mathew, LMFT
So I was actually a psychotherapist before I started the cancer journey. And the age of 30, I was diagnosed with cancer and really threw me off guard.
The Power of Shared Experiences in Cancer Care
00:00:51
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um
00:00:54
Mary Mathew, LMFT
The moment that i realized that I'm going to be doing this for sure is during my second chemotherapy session, I was sitting in the chemo chair. at Cedar Sinai and there was a very nice, very friendly psychotherapist that came up to me and introduced herself as a therapist and wanted to initiate therapy right then and there.
00:01:14
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And at the time I had steroids coming in, getting pumped into me. i don't know what's going on. I'm terrified. i have one-year-old at home and I just, I very, very foolishly, i asked her,
00:01:29
Mary Mathew, LMFT
have you ever had cancer? And she said, no. And so I thought to myself, and like I said, this is very foolish. There's a lot of psychotherapists out there that are highly qualified to do this work. I just thought, nope, not happening. Like I need, I need to talk to somebody who understands what's going on.
00:01:45
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And as that chemotherapy session was progressing, there were, there were all these volunteers that were coming and they had a basket in their hand with fruits and, and snacks and beverages. And They introduced themselves as volunteers who were also cancer survivors.
00:02:05
Mary Mathew, LMFT
and And then all of a sudden I had all these questions for them. How long did it take for your hair to grow back? How long were you sick? How could I, did you have a child at the time? how am I going to go home to my one-year-old and parent?
00:02:17
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And i just, I knew right then and there that first of all, ah cancer patients want to speak to other cancer patients. And, and that was my quest to start looking for a therapist that was also a cancer survivor. And I really struggled to find one.
00:02:33
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um And so I, I actually didn't find one. i settled for somebody who wasn't, she's still my therapist. She's excellent. um But that was, that's how I knew that I was going to get out of this situation first, give myself some time to heal, and then eventually start working with cancer patients.
Mental Health Challenges in Cancer Patients
00:02:52
Dr Colin Goodwin
It sounds like you really saw that need and it was something that you wanted to have that connection and and understanding from a therapeutic standpoint to then really have that um be a ah way to feel like you could then heal and be understood.
00:03:10
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
00:03:13
Dr Colin Goodwin
Well, I understand that you recently presented on mental health and cancer at the Cholangial Carcinoma Foundation Conference. Can you walk us through some of those those talking points from that presentation?
00:03:24
Mary Mathew, LMFT
It was an hour long presentation. So I'll try my, my bed. It started off at like all most psychotherapy sessions that I have usually start off with very common themes.
00:03:36
Mary Mathew, LMFT
People come in and they are confused. The population that i work with um usually ah come in and report the same things. I don't understand how this can happen to me.
00:03:48
Mary Mathew, LMFT
I'm young. I'm healthy. I did all the right things. ah Why me? I don't smoke. I don't drink. I have been on the organic bandwagon for, you know, 10, 20 years.
00:04:00
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And how could something like this happen to me? And so I addressed that in the conference. That's how I started off because most people come in and they're really shocked and confused and want questions, have all these questions and don't have answers. And unfortunately medicine, we're not there yet. So we don't, for some cancers, we have some idea, not for every cancer, definitely not specific to the individual.
00:04:25
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Sometimes it just doesn't make sense. um So there's usually fear over the new diagnosis. There's fear over the treatment plan and the side effects. I think oftentimes we come into this journey and we hear cancer psychotherapy and automatically we think we're going to die.
00:04:42
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And, um, you know, a lot of it has been dictated by the media. I've never really watched a movie where there's a cancer patient that survives and has a happily ever after. And so that's, that's, you know, the first and foremost is that we address these things.
00:04:58
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Um, there's usually a whole lot of anxiety that comes and into the picture. And so that's something that's heavily
Understanding Anxiety in Cancer Treatment
00:05:06
Mary Mathew, LMFT
discussed. That's that was actually, I'm going to pause right here because anxiety is something that I spent a great deal talking about at the conference and just understanding anxiety, I think through a healthier, more humanistic perspective.
00:05:20
Mary Mathew, LMFT
A lot of us come in with a lot of anxiety and we might report it to the doctor and I love doctors and everything. So don't get me wrong. And There's a time and place for medications and everything.
00:05:31
Mary Mathew, LMFT
But we come into this diagnosis and we're reporting things like depression and anxiety and the inability to fall asleep. And we leave usually with a handful of medications and prescriptions.
00:05:43
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And I spent a great deal normalizing anxiety and truly dissecting it and and offering a healthier perspective on it. and that our brains are wired for survival.
00:05:56
Mary Mathew, LMFT
We want to survive. And so when we hear of a life-threatening disease, ah we automatically go into the state of anxiety and it's there to so protect us, honestly.
00:06:08
Mary Mathew, LMFT
It's that anxiety sometimes that drives us to go into the next chemotherapy session, knowing that we're gonna leave really in bad shape. It's that anxiety that pushes us to go into that next PET scan or scan.
00:06:20
Mary Mathew, LMFT
ct scan um and and do the things that we need to do to get on the other side. And so developing a healthy understanding of what anxiety is will then allow us to manage it a little bit better without the overuse of medications that we often see now.
00:06:38
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um And so that there was is a a great deal of time understanding that and the root of that. ah There's always fear of relapse and reoccurrence, I think, and I'll share this story from my own experience,
00:06:51
Mary Mathew, LMFT
I remember the first time I went into a support group for lymphoma and I was at the halfway mark and I had my midway PET scan and the doctor came in and he said, there's a significant, you know, improvement over 50%. We can't really tell you. I don't know. I had 14 by 10 size, you know, metastinal mass in my chest cavity. And so he said, there's just significant improvement. We're on the right treatment plan.
00:07:16
Mary Mathew, LMFT
This is what this lets us know. um And I was so happy. I was elated, like, okay, whatever this was, and however bad this chemotherapy is, it is medicine. I really learned then that, you know, you you might walk in thinking, oh, this is toxic, and this is poison.
00:07:33
Mary Mathew, LMFT
But I learned then that chemotherapy is medicine, and it is a real medicine. And it puts people in remission, and it saves lives. And so I started to develop a healthier mindset around chemotherapy.
00:07:44
Mary Mathew, LMFT
But I'll never forget when I walked into the support group, And I sat there with my amazing news. And the girl right next to me had the same exact cancer, same exact, eight I mean, same profile, but she had relapsed.
00:07:57
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And prior to it, I knew nothing about cancer. I knew nothing about the possibility of relapse. And I freaked out. I totally freaked out. was like wait a minute, I could be doing all of this just to relapse. And it was something that I'll never forget just really um struck me.
00:08:14
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And so the fear of relapses is always going to be there with any cancer diagnosis. And these are things that come up in every single chemotherapy session.
00:08:25
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um I also spent a great deal talking about maladaptive coping skills that can happen with this diagnosis and post this diagnosis.
Coping Mechanisms Post-Cancer
00:08:36
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And that can look like a host of things. Eating disorders, which I'm glad Dustin is it on here, um is something that I often see. And I see it in a lot of women who maybe have a history of it, of an eating disorder, even if they you know had the eating disorder in their adolescence, and now they're in their forty s and 50s.
00:08:57
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And it usually starts from this need to control. um And so they usually come in with a super healthy lifestyle and healthy whatever, but something glitched and something went wrong that caused cancer. And the first thing that they tend to do is is latch on to their eating. That's the one thing I can easily control.
00:09:18
Mary Mathew, LMFT
i can cut out all these things from my diet and then maybe I can control the outcome of whether I'm going to relapse or not. It starts off really cute. It's very subtle. I stopped eating all these highly processed foods. Excellent.
00:09:31
Mary Mathew, LMFT
That's what you're saying. That's awesome. and But then it turns out this causes cancer and that causes cancer. And did you know this causes cancer? And then we're like in full-blown now monitoring every single thing that comes in and out of our our mouth. We're not doing well. It's affecting our mood. It's affecting our sleep.
00:09:49
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And then we're back into like the loop of an eating disorder. um Substance abuse is obviously another thing that can come up post-cancer as people are trying to adjust and adapt to their pre-cancer lives.
00:10:07
Dustin Mesick, RDN
What do the stages of grief and adjustment look like for people with a new cancer diagnosis?
Stages of Grief in Cancer Diagnosis
00:10:14
Mary Mathew, LMFT
So just like everything that we know about the stages of grief, which are, you know, very straightforward denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. So typically people will come in and there's this sense of denial.
00:10:27
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Maybe the doctors got this wrong. Maybe if they rescan, maybe it wasn't my scan. Maybe they messed up. People mess up all the time. And so these things are natural thoughts that happen.
00:10:38
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And then once we come to realize that this is a real thing, this is my diagnosis, my reality. um oftentimes we experience anger. I know for me, i was I was a really angry person when I realized, when I woke up and realized, oh my God, this is a a nightmare.
00:10:55
Mary Mathew, LMFT
It's like I just woke up from this nightmare. um Bargaining. I will do whatever it takes to get out of this. So I did i hear this all the time. i swear, i I'm going to church every single Sunday. If i if i God gets me out of this thing, I am, you know, and there's this bargaining that's happening. I will never eat a chocolate bar again.
00:11:16
Mary Mathew, LMFT
you know i will do all these things. I'm going to bargain my way out of this. And then when you realize that life doesn't work like that, then we're hit with the depression. um and and And then obviously, hopefully we get to a point of acceptance.
00:11:32
Mary Mathew, LMFT
that this is my new reality, that I have to start creating a new life with cancer in it, um that there is really no coming out of it, even in the state of remission, you're always in it.
00:11:43
Mary Mathew, LMFT
mean, I see my oncologist every six months. um I am sure, you know, every every single person that has had this diagnosis realizes that they're never actually out of it.
00:11:55
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um And oftentimes we are led to believe that once you're done with treatment, you are you are done, you are you know you're good to go. And then you realize, oh no, the doctor wants you back in in three months for a follow-up. and you're like, why? you know i'm I'm done. And and no, it doesn't work like that.
00:12:10
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And also wanna make this a point, this is not linear. So we don't just go through these stages of grief and then we're done with them. We're just like cycling through them and and it comes in waves just like any any cycle of grief actually in any context.
00:12:28
Dustin Mesick, RDN
Yeah, i think that acceptance piece is really challenging, because there's just that thought in the back of your mind, like, what if this didn't happen? Or like, and all that, like resistance to, like, what has happened?
00:12:37
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Okay.
00:12:43
Mary Mathew, LMFT
oh absolutely
00:12:46
Dr Colin Goodwin
to think of acceptance as like something that's just ah chipped away at too. So it's not like I'm going to be 100% accepting of, uh, everything that's happened, but maybe it's just being able to then sit with it for, you know, that minute and ah recognize that this is my reality rather than, trying to push it away and say like, I can't feel this or I can't experience this or this thought is too painful, or whatever that might be. That's that pushback from the acceptance.
00:13:14
Dr Colin Goodwin
So, um, Understand that you spoke on some you know differentiation between like a internal and external coping skills.
00:13:28
Dr Colin Goodwin
Wanted to just have you speak to that.
00:13:31
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah. so during intake, this is always like a ah challenging exercise for a lot of people. I'll usually ask something along the lines of what are your coping skills? What do you, what do you do What do you do to get out of um these scenarios historically?
00:13:45
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And then I'm hit with like, you know, a list of all of these, what I call external coping skills. I exercise, I like reading, I do, I, you know, I knit, I do all these like things that are physical and it's all wonderful because that's what we were taught. That's like the easy way out of every, like actually that, that's, it's like, it's a healthy way out, but it's like the easy thing to do.
00:14:10
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Go for a walk. um We know that that's, that's like, going to be successful. And then um I always ask, well, what if I took all of those things away from you? The ability to exercise, if you're a runner, what if I took away the ability to go for a run, which happens all the time in my practice, like all the time people come in with this, like, oh, I love that adrenaline that I get from running. Well, what if you couldn't do it anymore? What if you were in the hospital?
00:14:36
Dr Colin Goodwin
Yeah, just yoinked from that.
00:14:38
Mary Mathew, LMFT
What if you lost your legs as a result of this?
00:14:38
Dr Colin Goodwin
um that
00:14:40
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Which I unfortunately see that too. What if you couldn't knit anymore because of neuropathy? what if and And then they're like, well what do you mean? And I'm like, those are your internal coping skills that I'm trying to pull from.
00:14:53
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And most people will respond, well, i don't know if I have that. I don't know, what well, what is that? What is an example of that? And to me, an internal coping skill is a well, first of all, requires a lot more internal work to understand and identify.
00:15:10
Mary Mathew, LMFT
But if I had to break it down like one very simple concept, it's the ability to self um positively self talk. It's like this really healthy mindset of, and and it requires you to let go. There is a loss of control in that.
00:15:26
Mary Mathew, LMFT
I have no idea what's going to come next, but I know that I'm going to have the tools to get out of it. I know that there's going to be an end to it. And it's this just this ability to tell yourself that. And that starts from, i think, from early on in childhood and is something that a lot of people really struggle with, whether their core beliefs are that they're not worthy of it or that they're not good enough, ah you know, or that they can't get themselves out of situations.
00:15:53
Mary Mathew, LMFT
and um And that's something that I spend a great deal working on with people because that is a terrifying thing. What if I couldn't do all the things that I've always been taught to do to self-soothe and to regulate and to cope.
00:16:11
Dr Colin Goodwin
I find that like there's maybe a subset of patients that when there is that you know stressor, and cancer's a big one, um there is like a discount or minimization of like what they are doing. like what have you been doing to cope? It's like, I've been doing nothing.
00:16:29
Dr Colin Goodwin
So it does take some little bit of a and coaxing then to talk about, well, what does it really look like when you have, you know, ah unpleasant thought or unpleasant sensation, or maybe just that that, you know, that denial comes up and and that grief process.
00:16:37
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Absolutely.
00:16:49
Dr Colin Goodwin
What is it that you're actually doing in that moment? Are you just sitting down and resting? That's a coping strategy. I think resting's important. like ah So I always find it interesting and that there are those that just um are able to then articulate what they're doing, or maybe it's that they feel like they're not doing enough. I think that's probably more of the the the thought that like, I'm not doing enough because I still have these feelings, because I still have these thoughts, because it's still here.
00:17:24
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And this is more about allowing yourself to get comfortable in a very uncomfortable space. And that I am coping right now by being still. And I'm allowing myself to feel these things and I'm not going to change them, actually.
00:17:39
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And there's actually nothing wrong with that. I know it might make other people around us, especially our or loving family and friends, very uncomfortable when they see us like that. But it is ah as long as you're aware of it and conscious of what you're doing.
00:17:53
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And it's done in a healthy way. i think it's beautiful. I'm self-regulating internally. like I am trying to accept where I am. I accept that there is going to be some level of depression, some level of anxiety.
00:18:08
Mary Mathew, LMFT
I'm not going to be in this space forever. But right now I am, and I'm trying to be okay with that.
00:18:15
Dustin Mesick, RDN
Can you explain a cancer lens and some of the narratives that you've encountered?
Living Through the 'Cancer Lens'
00:18:21
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah, so cancer lens is something that I made up. It's a term that I made up, so no one can Google this one. This is all, you know, but it's it's just based on a lot of observations over the years and and even in my own personal life that sometimes post-cancer life or even in in the middle of treatment when things are going really bad, um sometimes people come in and they report these ah moments of just joy,
00:18:50
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And in a way that they've never experienced before. And usually it's in the context of like being very, very, very aware of where you are in the moment and where you are in space. And that kind of joy will, it just, it pushes you over to the, to the point where everything makes sense and everything is worth it. Even if it's for, even if it lasts for like a few minutes and I'll share, um I'll share one of my stories and maybe ah another one from a client that I've had.
00:19:19
Mary Mathew, LMFT
So I remember, so I had radiation to the chest and I, before cancer, I used to walk seven, eight miles a day with a weighted, you know, 25 pound weight vest.
00:19:30
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And so walking and regular exercise were just part of my life. It was just what I did. And I would never forget this. i was walking with two others and We were going up what I call a big mountain, but it really wasn't. It was just a little hill.
00:19:44
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And I just couldn't do it. I like could not do it. I was wiped out. i was i was still recovering. So I had the fatigue. I had this radiation to the chest would definitely had an impact on me. I was done with chemo and i it was just, it was not me. I was somebody that was used to rigorous, um, exercise, exercise, and I was young.
00:20:05
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And, um, and I just, and I couldn't do it. I just sat there at the bottom of the hill, kind of huffing and puffing thinking, man, why did I, drag these people out here for a walk. I can't even walk. I like, this is ridiculous.
00:20:17
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And, um, and they were really very nice. You know, they were like, we can just head back. Like who we don't have anything to prove to anybody. You don't have to prove it yourself to anybody. And I was like, yeah, I was ready to call it.
00:20:29
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And then all of a sudden I felt this gust of wind and it just, I felt it on my legs. And look and then all of a sudden I was like, energized and And I was like, no, I got this.
00:20:40
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And I did it and we went on and I dragged these poor girls like five more miles. And so something had shifted there. Like what happened? There was the physical sense and there was the physical elements that for sure were there or present. mean, I'm not going to deny that there's fatigue and all of the things that come post-cancer treatment.
00:20:58
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um But there was something else there. And it was this consciousness that I had gained in that moment of where I was in time. of the elements around me, something about that wind. And i and i looked at them and I was like, did you guys feel it?
00:21:13
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And they were like, what? And all was like, that like breeze. And they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we felt it. Whatever. Yeah, of course we felt. But it they didn't feel it the way I did.
00:21:25
Mary Mathew, LMFT
I had this like heightened experience that I was aware of at that moment. Like, oh man, they don't get it. They don't get it there was There was a breeze and ah and it and it just sounded so weird to them, but it gave me this like this different perspective and this ability to go on.
00:21:41
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And I hear it all the time for my patients. One patient went on a cruise post stomach cancer and she she looked out and she said, and she the way that she described it, I was like, oh, that's the cancer lens.
00:21:55
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Her dad was a physician and he had her in treatment very quickly. And she was on a cruise with her whole family. And she looked over and she said, I saw my dad and and the sun was just like setting and his silhouette. And I just,
00:22:09
Mary Mathew, LMFT
felt so emotional. And I cried. And I thought, Oh, my God, I'm so thankful for that man. I couldn't have gotten here without him. And that feeling I just I never want it to go away. Is this going to fade?
00:22:20
Mary Mathew, LMFT
People always ask that, is this going to fade? Or is this and and and I'm like, Oh, man, like this is that's the cancer lens. That's this cancer perspective. And sometimes it just hits us when we're not really expecting it's not like we're going out and looking for it.
00:22:34
Mary Mathew, LMFT
But sometimes we're just moved by where we are and what is happening around us and this like, huh, I'm alive and I'm alive to see this and witness this and feel this. And it's that awareness of it.
00:22:47
Mary Mathew, LMFT
That's the cancer lens.
00:22:58
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Oh, I can't, I don't know.
00:22:59
Dustin Mesick, RDN
Colin, we can't hear anything you're saying.
00:23:04
Dr Colin Goodwin
One thing I was ah ah thinking about as I was listening to talk about your care, your personal experience with that cancer lens was that like, like having an afterburner or of getting that second wind or, ah you know, the way you described then having some of that clarity, it just made me think of like the movie, the matrix where, you know, Neil has finally been seeing everything for what it is.
00:23:14
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah. Yes.
00:23:17
Mary Mathew, LMFT
yeah
00:23:29
Dr Colin Goodwin
You know, he's having that clarity, ah powerful moment. um And maybe even the epiphany of ah where they are and where and you know where you are or whatever, where we're going to refer this as like being in that that present moment.
00:23:46
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah, that's exactly. the and we And the matrix often comes up in therapy. And that's exactly what it is. It's just being very aware of where you are and the reality of everything. And this veil that's like lifted over your eye and you can see very clearly, I'm not in the hospital right now. I am walking.
00:24:05
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And I just felt that breeze. And when you have experienced something like cancer, it, you know, you're very much aware that you're not, when you're not in it, you're not in it. And we're thankful for that.
00:24:20
Dustin Mesick, RDN
Yeah, this this part, part of our part of the discussion actually it kind of reminds me of after, you know, I was doing chemo in in the hospital for a month, was there for a month.
00:24:33
Dustin Mesick, RDN
And it was ah one day i just looked out the window, and there's these beautiful mountains out the window.
00:24:38
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Mm-hmm.
00:24:39
Dustin Mesick, RDN
And I was like, wow, there's like an outside
00:24:44
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah.
00:24:44
Dustin Mesick, RDN
look at There's this like big world out there and it's like endless.
00:24:46
Mary Mathew, LMFT
and Yeah.
00:24:48
Dustin Mesick, RDN
And it was like this big, expansive feeling. It was like almost I forgot about the world outside because was just like trying to survive.
00:24:56
Dr Colin Goodwin
Oh yeah, that's good of putting it. You become so like um you know blinded by the ah the process that you're not necessarily open to those other things that are around you.
00:25:08
Dr Colin Goodwin
and And even just being able to seem like the ah the mountains or the nature, you're like blown away by it.
00:25:14
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:16
Dr Colin Goodwin
You turned into Keanu Reeves right there.
00:25:20
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And that's exactly what it is. it's It's like really realizing what's in front of you. and You might talk to a nurse and be like, do you see those mountains? There's a world outside. And they're like, yeah, all right. and But they don't see it the way that you do. And that is the cancer lens a very unique and very special.
00:25:39
Dustin Mesick, RDN
Yeah, or eating food outside of the hospital after being in there for a long time. You're like, Oh my gosh, this bean dip is incredible. Are you guys tasting this? And everyone's like, it's bean dip.
00:25:52
Dustin Mesick, RDN
Chill.
00:25:54
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Exactly.
00:25:54
Dr Colin Goodwin
Don't get Dustin started on being dipped.
00:25:56
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Oh man, I think we're there. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it is. It's like such a, such a gift. I'm going to go out and use that word. It's a big loaded word, um but it it is a gift.
00:26:10
Mary Mathew, LMFT
It's a gift to be able to see the world for what it is and to appreciate it. And,
00:26:16
Dustin Mesick, RDN
It's like that appreciation for like the smaller things in life.
00:26:19
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah, absolutely.
Addressing Depression and Anxiety in Cancer Patients
00:26:23
Dr Colin Goodwin
I'm curious if there's maybe some common comorbid diagnoses that you experience in your private practice. I think we talked about that or maybe touched a little bit on ah you know some restrictive eating habits or just how that can um contribute to eating disorders. But I wanted to see if there's ah maybe other themes or other than diagnoses that you commonly see in your private practice.
00:26:48
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um Absolutely. I think the two most that we see right off the bat is going to be depression and anxiety. that There's got to be some acceptance. There's going to be some level of depression and some level of anxiety that comes with this space.
00:27:03
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um Along with that, there's sometimes ah substance abuse. Sometimes we see some sleep disturbances that might really get into the you know sleep disorder category, like diagnosable sleep disorders.
00:27:20
Mary Mathew, LMFT
um Those are some of the most common eating eating disorders.
00:27:27
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yes.
00:27:29
Dr Colin Goodwin
You know, I'm curious now that ah you've had the chance to, you know, pivot and create your own space within Beyond Cancer LA.
Offering Hope and Acceptance to Patients
00:27:41
Dr Colin Goodwin
um What do you find the most perhaps gratifying and offering what you were looking for and a therapist?
00:27:51
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Oh, that's a really good question. um I think just the ability to to get into the space and meet people where they are and not necessarily have like this list of things that we're going to change, but just meet them where they are and then work from there. Like i I see you, I hear you.
00:28:14
Mary Mathew, LMFT
I'm not here to necessarily change everything right now. That's not what we're doing right now. but I'm in this space with you. And sometimes people come in and unfortunately they are terminal. And sometimes um just meeting them there and offering and holding space for them where I think a lot of people are really uncomfortable and um they they don't have that person to talk to their family and their friends.
00:28:43
Mary Mathew, LMFT
The acceptance piece is really difficult. And just allowing them to exist there and sitting with them there, despite the discomfort that might come with that, is probably, i'm going to say, like the most satisfying and rewarding thing.
00:28:58
Mary Mathew, LMFT
and And then also the ones that are moving past that. the treatment phase or in the treatment phase and just holding space for what that looks like, but also offering a sense of hope.
00:29:09
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And for everybody, it doesn't matter where what phase you're at in in this cancer journey, but offering a sense of hope um that things are going to change, that there's a life outside of this that you can create.
00:29:22
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And we have to create it with cancer in it, cancer has to be woven into it, whether that's going to appointments for the rest of your life, or continuing treatment for the rest of your life.
00:29:33
Mary Mathew, LMFT
But it's a space of creation. I often tell people that that this phase of life is where you get to create. And I have this analogy where I say sometimes the building has to come down for you to build, you know, the house that you were born into has to come down for you to build the house that you actually want.
00:29:50
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And so just offering that sense and That's kind of the greatest joy I get out of this work. It's something that I had wished. I mean, I i remember even i come in from the psychology field and I remember a lot of my own therapy friends, therapist friends didn't quite get it. I remember one time I went in and and to work and was speaking to a coworker and I was, I think I was like three years out and I was doing that. They scanned me for for five years.
00:30:21
Mary Mathew, LMFT
and I had all the scans I need. And in real life, you know, you can't just take off of work because you have scans I need for a week, you know, it doesn't work like that. And so I had to go through the whole work thing. And, and, and she used the classic CBT on me, which was just not appropriate for the space. But she said, she's like, well, all your other scans came out clean, what makes you think this one won't be?
00:30:45
Mary Mathew, LMFT
And I'm like, Oh, man, you totally know some more because you know, these doctors, they don't, they don't write you up for a scan just because for fun, you know, you know, we're going in there to confirm continued remission or a relapse. That's the only reason why we're scanning. Right. And um I just remember thinking, oh, okay, she just doesn't get it and miss the mark altogether. And, and so ah one of the greatest joys I get is the, just the knowledge of what not to say and what to say and,
00:31:14
Mary Mathew, LMFT
and just holding space for for whatever the outcome is going to be.
00:31:22
Dr Colin Goodwin
I like that a lot. You know, just being able to then ah maybe recognize, you know, from that other perspective of and kind of what is the maybe more and ah of an appropriate or welcomed than inquiry or question.
00:31:42
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Yeah.
00:31:45
Dr Colin Goodwin
Well, wanted to ask if Dustin has any further questions before we
00:31:50
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Oh.
00:31:51
Dustin Mesick, RDN
I don't have any further questions, but I did want to let you know, Colin, so we don't lose our conversation today. Do you see this quota exceed error message that came up?
00:32:01
Dr Colin Goodwin
No.
00:32:02
Dustin Mesick, RDN
Oh, on my end, it says quota exceeded error. You have run out of free space ah to save a local backup of this data. I recommend that you stop the recording and clear out some disk space to prevent possible data loss.
00:32:16
Dustin Mesick, RDN
Please see the system requirements for more information.
00:32:16
Mary Mathew, LMFT
oh
00:32:19
Dr Colin Goodwin
I wonder if that's just like ah like saving capacities for your computer or?
00:32:24
Dustin Mesick, RDN
i don't know why would it tell us why would it tell me to stop the recording though because i'm not like even logged into zencaster
00:32:37
Dr Colin Goodwin
Well, hopefully that doesn't cause any problems with the record.
00:32:37
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Oh, boom.
00:32:40
Dr Colin Goodwin
I do see like your audio coming through, like when you, when you talk, so.
00:32:44
Dustin Mesick, RDN
yeah i'm let me let me click the system requirements i just i was wondering if you saw that too i was like what what is that
00:32:50
Dr Colin Goodwin
I didn't get into the window here.
00:32:53
Dustin Mesick, RDN
It's weird. did I clicked the link in it it. says, oh, that page doesn't exist.
00:32:57
Mary Mathew, LMFT
ah
00:32:57
Dustin Mesick, RDN
So I just I'm just I wasn't sure if maybe we are out of space on in there or something. i don't know. It's kind of weird. But if you're not seeing that, then I guess maybe we're OK. I just hope we don't have to record like again this last part.
00:33:13
Dr Colin Goodwin
You know, one thing I was is just ah then reflecting on is i like that experience of scansiety is like, oh, well, just being able to challenge it is gonna be able to then take it away. Like that's not necessarily going to be too successful because you know like you did have to have that scan you know for five years after your treatment.
00:33:37
Dr Colin Goodwin
And that you did have those experiences of others that had relapse. And that is a real possibility. And it's not based or rooted in, you know, ah fantasy.
00:33:50
Dr Colin Goodwin
and ah There is that, just to put it simply, of that real component to it. So, gosh, like... I could see how that was just not necessarily to so ah too helpful in that moment just to be like, well, just don't think about it.
00:34:07
Dr Colin Goodwin
Just stop it.
00:34:10
Mary Mathew, LMFT
It hasn't happened already, so you're good, right? And I wish it worked like that.
00:34:13
Dr Colin Goodwin
Yeah.
00:34:17
Dr Colin Goodwin
Well, Mary, wanted to thank you so much for being a guest and to then just share your perspective on you know individual psychotherapy and and how you've been able to treat and those in the cancer field.
00:34:30
Dr Colin Goodwin
But thank you so much.
00:34:32
Mary Mathew, LMFT
Thank you so much for having me.
00:34:36
Dr Colin Goodwin
All right.