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The Art of the Packaging: A Chat with Jazwares' Chris Metzger
228 Plays8 days ago
You only get one first impression - and that's why Chris' job is so important when it comes to making toys. The packaging is the product before the product, and Chris has spent decades working on some of the most recognizable toy packaging ever; from ToyBiz Marvel and WCW figures, to Hasbro's Incredible Hulk and now all of the incredible AEW and Ring of Honor figures at Jazwares. Chris returns to the show to talk more about his latest innovations and some parts of his past in this action-packed episode.
Follow Chris @c_m_metzger and Jazwares @jazwares on Instagram!
Follow us @aic_podcast on Instagram, Facebook, X, and YouTube
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Intro and other voices by Joe Azzari
https://www.instagram.com/voicesbyjoe/
Theme Music is "Game Boy Horror" by the Zombie Dandies
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Transcript
Introduction to Adventures in Collecting
00:00:03
Speaker
Are you ready, kids? Get your parents' permission, check your mailbox, and grab your shopping cart. It's time for the Adventures in Collecting podcast. I'm Eric. And I'm Dave. Welcome to Adventures in Collecting, where we talk toy news, culture, and halls, along with our journeys as collectors.
Transition to Video Podcasting
00:00:28
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Adventures in Collecting. Hello. I wave now. You you can. wow yeah still Still adjusting to this this wonderful world of video. huh well welcome Welcome back to Adventures in Collecting. I added a new decoration, a New York Liberty pennant. Wow. Look at that. um i i had There's lots of new things in this room that I can't turn the camera on and show right now because ah it would be disturbing and alarming, the amount of boxes.
00:01:02
Speaker
but um Yeah, I figured I'd improve the visuals. There you go. I like it. It's a good move. It's a good look on you, Dave.
Holiday Toy Drive Announcement
00:01:12
Speaker
So we, of course, do have a special guest with us today. It's actually been a couple of weeks since we've had a special guest, but we do have a little bit of housekeeping to take care of right before we introduce our guest here. Our big holiday toy drive is still ongoing. if you are If you are listening to this, there is still time for you to to help brighten the holiday season for a a kid or kids in need. ah We, of course, have partnered with our friends, a local New Jersey toy store, Chubsy Wubsy Toys and Collectibles, based out of Little Falls. um What we're doing is we are incentivizing your your um generosity.
00:01:59
Speaker
So if you are kind enough to donate, um we will enter you in to win a Hazlab Marvel Legends Giant Man. ah These are no longer available. They were they were made to order. So i you are you are getting a very limited run figure. Giant giant Man is like 26 inches tall. It's like having an action figure the size of a small child. It's ah it's it's very it's very interesting. And we've seen on on you know some of the Instagrams, people have been like hanging out with them like small children. Pushing pushing them on a swing. I think yeah think he fits into, I believe it's 18 months. So if you go to Walmart or Target, you could get some you can get some leggings for him. and it'll it's it's really It's really great.
00:02:47
Speaker
but ah In order to participate in this giveaway, you need to do a couple of things. So you need to, first and foremost, make sure you're following us and Chubsy Wubsy Toys on Instagram. And by the way, all of this ah that I'm about to rattle off is available on our Instagram at AIC underscore podcast. It is our pinned post. You'll see it right at the top there. um It's got all the rules, but quick rundown.
00:03:15
Speaker
ah There's a couple things you need to do on Instagram. So you got to follow us, follow Chubsy Wubsy. You got to leave a comment tagging three friends. um Sharing the post is great. Get get the word out there. um And then, of course, you need to actually make your donation. So we've we're we're taking care of all the legwork for you. ah Just go to ChubsyWubsy.com, make any toy donation, $9.99 or larger. i And in the checkout process, there'll be a little window. You can put your Instagram handle and the word donation in there.
00:03:44
Speaker
and set shipping to in-store pickup and we'll take care of the rest. ah So this toy drive is running until December 12th. So you you still have some time to be a part of it and ah potentially win yourself a giant man. But most importantly, um we're making it really easy for you to
Packaging Design with Chris Metzger
00:04:02
Speaker
to donate, um you know,
00:04:04
Speaker
for the holidays, make make the holidays a little special for somebody who- And there's there's no like, you know, if you donate multiple times or anything, you get multiple, year if you're in, you're in. and Everybody's got the same shot. Yep, yep. So um yeah, ah again, at AIC underscore podcast on Instagram, pinned post, all the information's there. ah and let's Let's make our annual Toys for Tots donation ah bigger than it's ever been. Let's- Someone say giant. Giant.
00:04:34
Speaker
That's exactly it. that's that's If you weren't going to go there, I was. so It's a giveaway with a pun and a dad joke. Who doesn't love that? um yeah Yeah. So i definitely ah take a look at that. And then, of course, in December, we have our ah our big annual i giveaway for our our holiday in a box. So tons tons of toys, one winner. i Keep an eye on that. That's another great reason to follow us. We do that every year.
00:05:02
Speaker
ah Every year, that box gets a little bit bigger and a little bit more expensive to ship, and we we love filling it as much as we can, so ah yeah definitely keep an eye out for that. But I am done now bearing the lead, Dave. The the lead, let's- We're long past the lead. Well, housekeeping. We said housekeeping. Yeah, I know. We set expectations. We do. As a packaging designer, the the adage, you only get one first impression.
00:05:32
Speaker
is something this week's guest is all too familiar with. So much so that when he first sat down with us a little over a year ago, he made such a good first impression, we just had to have him back. ah Returning to the show is friend of the pod, Senior Director of Packaging Design at Jazzwares, Chris Metzger. Chris, welcome back to Adventures in Collecting. Appreciate it, fellas. Thanks for having me back on.
00:05:55
Speaker
I actually like to add to that like one thing that I've always said was the the package is a product before the consumer opens it so It's totally true regardless of kind of yeah like outside of the industry everything else. It's yeah you know, ah it's very very true ah before we dig in here um as a reminder to our our listeners and and our our viewers and Um, what packaging at jazzwares are you currently overseeing? What's, what, what, what are you working on? Oh yeah. So we're working on the, um, a W stuff, which includes, uh, our weight stuff. Um, uh, we've got a couple anime brands now. So we have a, um, a brand called total anime. Um, it's actually in stores now. And that is licensed through crunchy rolls. So it's a pretty vast portfolio of anime.
00:06:51
Speaker
Um, and the challenge there was to come up with, uh, overarching design that you can sort of plug in chainsaw, man, my hero academia, judicious Kaizen, that sort of thing. So it looked like a unifying, uh, uh, brand at retail. So that's one, um, another big, uh, one, uh, anime wise is it was announced that we are actually doing the last air vendor avatar. It's very cool.
00:07:19
Speaker
um We're actually doing five nights at Freddy's There's another video game and a couple other um live-action stuff that we're working on some eternal IP and of course, there's Halo and Call of Duty and Yeah, you're you're a busy man over there. Yeah, a lot of stuff going on. And and and Pokemon too, right? oh hey and Oh, actually, that's been shifted over to another team. Oh, okay. But I forgot to mention Fortnite is another another brand working through. Very cool. Yeah, that's a that's that that is that is quite ah quite a stacked ah quite a stacked roster there that you're... in It sure is.
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah, so since we last spoke, you've continued to push the envelope with packaging designs for ah the Jazzwares vault releases for, um especially like Ring of Honor and some really slick work on the AEW exclusives over at Ringside, um like the Switchblade Jay White, Jay Lethal, the acclaimed three-pack. um Also remember to use code AIC, see 10%. Where do the ideas for these come from?
00:08:31
Speaker
Well, on the ROH stuff, um, that was a bit ah of a challenge upfront, right? Because it was a nod to, uh, some of the guys now that are in AW or, or now in, um, uh, ROH, right. Um, unlike AW, right? Well, so when there was an event for AW during house photography, you know, you know, capture, um, studio shots, so whatever they're wearing in the ring.
00:08:57
Speaker
will get this you know really you know energetic poses or um you know that's indicative of an expression of that particular talent or their persona. ROH, on the other hand, had nothing. right there was so we're like yeah We kind of talked about, hey, do you know so and you know somebody over there or some um you know wrestling photographers that might have an archive of some of these guys that that were wrestling in ROH at the time. And it was hard, we were hard pressed to find some some good photos, right? So we were like, hey, let's come up with this sort of illustrative representation of the talent, right? So um kind of put a mood board together and our inspiration was kind of grungy, punky, um you know, sketchy.
00:09:49
Speaker
maybe a, you know, three colorways, you know, just red, white and black, similar to the ROH logo. Um, and so we, we found this, um, a really talented, super talented illustrator on Instagram. Her name is Mel Coleman. So I reached out to her and like, Hey, Mel, you know, are you interested in doing this? stuff I'd love to whatever.
00:10:08
Speaker
And so that's how we kind of rolled out the whole ROH thing. And, you know, when you I'm sure you've youve seen our releases on the ROH
Ensuring a Full Collector Experience
00:10:16
Speaker
there it has that ROH branding look to it. um And I don't know if you notice the um the actual package of the package structure is actually the O from ROH. Yeah, it's in that shape. Yeah, it is. Yeah.
00:10:36
Speaker
um'm I'm thinking about, i'm i'm I'm actually looking at my, ah I got Brody. It was the most recent one that it that ah that came our way. And yeah, I mean, I love that entire treatment. Like like you said, kind of that. Yeah, because even the ah two packs are like a bigger version of it. It's almost like it's on the side. Yeah. Yeah. It's the wider row. Yeah. <unk> twenty oh ring Ring of honor. Yeah. um No, but it's really, it's, it's interesting to hear you talk about the, kind of the the, the, the mood of that packaging. I didn't really think about it that way, but it does, you know, thinking about it with that context, it it does very much so look like, you know, like a poster that you'd see pasted up at a wall, like in front of like a CBGB's or an old punk club. Like it does have that kind of look to it, but I think something else that's also really unique about the, the ring of honor packaging and kind of jazz where it's vault in general, how,
00:11:30
Speaker
how much reverence is given to the packaging in the way that they're shipped and you know that oh absolutely yeah the slip cover and then the actual shipper within the shipper. It's like the the corners, everything is and so crisp and and and really kind of ah user friendly.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's, I mean, cause I know through other, um, DTC sites who shall remain like nameless, right? So I know, um, some of the guys on our vault side were just like, Hey, you know, what's the competition doing, blah, blah, blah. Let's order some stuff, see what they're offering is, you know, it'd be put in a box, which maybe some tissue paper or some of those bubble wrap, uh, pillows, uh, bubble wrap sheets and some of those air pillows or whatever.
00:12:13
Speaker
And you get it and it's all dinged up and, you know, um, damaged or whatever. So we just wanted to ensure that, you know, that the consumer collector has a full experience, right? A they get a great product, great package, and it, and it comes, um, on damage. Right. So, um, I know other folks are kind of doing that the SiOC ships in his own, uh, cart and type of thing. Right. Um, so we decided to do, like, let's do the.
00:12:44
Speaker
the main package, um the out what then we call like with the outer package, and then what we deemed as the collector protectors, which is like the little corner things, and then goes in the shipping box. and but We really had great success with all our transit tests and and then things like that. so But yeah, you know we just want to put in the hands because it's it's for collectors, right? and If you get something and, oh, the corner's a little dinged,
00:13:14
Speaker
The the plastic in the window or the plastic on the blisters a little scuffed, you know, it just It's not pristine. So yeah, I had ah I had a box come from from vault that UPS treated like Ace Ventura in the beginning of in the beginning of that first movie and everything on the inside was still like yeah pristine I think I think I was one of the guinea pig boxes were like UPS was like, Jazzware said to beat these up, let's see how how much we could do. yeah But um no, no, but in all seriousness, it it really, it makes a difference. It's a it's a huge difference. It absolutely does. Especially since it's that like limited to X number product. So if you want to keep it mint in box or mint on card, it it is. But it's also too, even though it's like the AEW um you know relative brand now being under the same umbrella, it's still a different
00:14:07
Speaker
Style than the unrivaled and unmatched though. for sure It's still gonna be its own thing, which I really like. And what we try to do is we try to keep it any of the ROA stuff or even the ringside stuff, um, the same footprint as it might be the main done rival on match or any other exclusive. So if you get, um, you know, ringside single fig, all those dims are the same. So for the collector, it wants to book end them on a shelf or whatever. So there's no variation on the, in the height or the modularity of it as well.
00:14:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's super cool cool. And, and, and, you know, you brought up a ringside there. So the, the, uh, those are also a completely different treatment. And I feel like those are each one of those kind of one-off, um, you know, deliveries, like whether it's the acclaimed with the boombox, which is, yeah yeah I think is honestly one of the coolest it's probably an action figure packaging of like of all time. That boombox is amazing. Um, you know, last time you're on, you took, we talked at length about the Dan housing with the, the Cape. Right. Yeah. come um But tell us a little bit about some of those newer ones, like the the Black Machismo and and and Switchblade. Like, where do those kind of design ideas come from? Tony Storm just hit, too. ah i time going Yeah, to cash it yeah, Yeah, so one of the guys on my team is Steve Deejack, right? Or Jay Jack, rather. um it's like his His name is like 17 letters long. I like a lot of Z's, K's, C's, and I like to buy a vowel, but it's pronounced Deejack.
00:15:41
Speaker
Um, I see a super talented guy, right? So we collaborate on these, these ringside items and like you said, it's a one-off, right? We want to tell a story, um, for each individual character. Um, not only flag, um, you know, the, the talents personality, but backstory, or even a moment in in time as well. Right? So if you look at the boom box,
00:16:06
Speaker
their hip hop guys may seem obvious or whatever, but you know, rather than doing the fifth panel all from the top or from the side, let's fold it down so it can be like, you know, a plane display, you know, dance floor or whatever, right? um You know, timeless Tony storm. Again, it's like one of those things that may seem obvious, but, you know, the whole, you know, silent movie starlet, you know, type of thing, old, old, you know, old school Hollywood.
00:16:36
Speaker
um Kind of pulling pulling in the black and white sepia tone film strips, you know and the pops of color on her on her lip and all that sort of stuff So and I and I think you know, and I think you know, the important part is to have the product compliment the packaging and have the Packaging compliment the product right? So it's a little um Sort of two-way street there, you know a little symbiotic relationship um And you know you pull in the colors, you pull in um you know some of the gear um that that the the the figures are wearing you know into the in the package. um But yeah, you know I think it's just like have that complete total package, you know no pun intended there. Well, how involved, um if at all, are the talent in their packaging or art direction?
00:17:33
Speaker
You know, it it depends, right? So, um, you know, I think as I understand when we, when we submit concepts or whatever. So what we'll do is we'll look to, you know, either some of the, you know, deco on the gear, which is, you know, um, you know, actually what they wear in ring or we'll, we'll take a look at their entrance videos or even some of the, the apparel that's out there. Right. And let's, let's figure out like, Hey,
00:18:04
Speaker
what's ah what's a cool visual story to tell here, right? um I know, you know, some of the talent's very particular. um And then some of the talent is like, cool, I haven't seen this before, but this is amazing, right? So I think those moments where, um you know, there's there's pushback is few and far be few and far between. And, you know, it's,
00:18:30
Speaker
it's It's pretty cool. yeah You know what I mean? It's like the the talent themselves. If we need them to like, Hey, um, you know, we if we need like a particular pose or a particular gear, um, they'll, they'll be happy to, to accommodate us for sure. It's, it's interesting, right? Like, you know, and're we're going to get into this in a moment, you know, as you have somebody who has the experience of being a creative director and like managing all these different brand style guides and, you know, and, and look books and everything.
00:19:00
Speaker
It's almost like when you, you know, at least that's the way, the way, the way that you talk about it, right? Is like, AEW has their own look and feel and has their own style guide and like, you know, the way that they use logo and colors and, you know, kind of that, you know, um, that array, but then almost the talent then have their own like yeah sub style guides that you then have to apply the thinking of that to, you know, like it's, it's just, it's, it's wild, it's wild. And, and one of the things that,
00:19:30
Speaker
that jazzwares has done so well with the AW line or you know since launch, really, is is nailing the um accuracy. like To the point where like you know a lot of times on the box, right like the back image is has a date, a location where that kind of moment in time took place. and like i think you know, a lot of wrestling figure collectors and fans appreciate that attention to detail. And I know we do. know yeah Yeah, absolutely. it's It's it's awesome. Yeah, and it's funny on the very, very, very rare occasion, you know, we may say like, you know what, this is a better photo of so and so and the gear.
00:20:09
Speaker
um that the wrestler was wearing at the time of the match, better reflects of what's in box figure wise. So here, put this photo in. It may have been like, oh, um ah you know, it wasn't dynamite. It was a collision match like the day after or whatever. And then, you know, we get out here on social. That was actually not that day. for the blood Let me adjust my glasses as well. Yeah, well, but it's all good. But I mean, but we we I mean, we totally appreciate that feedback. You know, and it's great to know that the fans are actually paying attention to that sort of stuff. So it makes, you know, ah us want to be even more ah diligent, you know, and and try to get it right. Yeah, that's it's it's really cool. um Very much so. And now a word from our sponsors.
00:21:04
Speaker
This segment is brought to you by our friends at Chubsy Wubsy Toys. A traditional mom and pop toy store in Little Falls, New Jersey, Chubsy Wubsy Toys brings you the best new toys from the brands you love without the hassle of pounding the pavement searching for them at larger retail stores.
00:21:21
Speaker
Visit them in person at their brand new home at 101 Newark Pompton Turnpike Suite 1 in Little Falls, New Jersey, or online at ChubsyWubsy.com. That's C-H-U-B-Z-Z-Y-W-U-B-Z-Z-Y dot.com. And tell them that Adventures in Collecting sent you.
00:21:45
Speaker
And now, back to the show. So shifting gears a little bit. um Sure.
Reflecting on Past Marvel Projects
00:21:51
Speaker
diving Diving into your past. Last time we were on we talked about you know some of them. yeah You want the redacted version? Is it you're going to show me something with a bunch of black lines or something? No. i i So i i I found your very well-organized portfolio um that that you have posted. And something jumped out at me that in your in your material that you had.
00:22:14
Speaker
you you ah during during your time, ah previous to jazzwares, did a little work for on on some Marvel products. yeah And one of the things that in your portfolio was very interesting to me. You had packaging designed for Spiderman 4. Yeah. um So the thing is with my online my online portfolio website probably hasn't been maintained in about 10 years.
00:22:44
Speaker
And, um you know, that was a tool that I was using to get freelance and ultimately have a, have a, get a job at Wikicool now, now Jaspers, right? um So it was my personal website. And the funny, like, and when working with Marvel, we, we, I worked on, you know, Spider-Man one, Spider-Man two, packaging, small guys, that sort of thing.
00:23:08
Speaker
um And then when spider-man 4 came around I think they were just like hey you went out to a couple different farms like hey you guys do some concept workforce or whatever um Obviously, we know spider-man 4 never got made right so fast forward 10 years later I get an email from some guys like um ah to a link to an article right like you know, un, you know, unpublished or unproduced Spider-Man 4 packaging found, you know, like, and mean like, like, yeah right's you know, settle down Dick Tracy, like, you type of thing. But, but, um you know, the funniest thing was, it's like, and there was all these online, you'd say posted it, I guess, on X and Insta, right? And, you know, it probably got like,
00:24:02
Speaker
quarter million views or more about this stuff. And people were reaching out to me and I was like, like, dude, it's something I did like 15 years ago or whatever it was 13 years ago. Um, you know, don't read it into it too much. Like they wanted to know like, you know, how close was it being published? Like, can you offer some insights in your design? You know, that Sam Ramey, you know, have any input on it, blah, blah, blah. It was, it was funny.
00:24:31
Speaker
it's It's one of those things, right, where, um you know, and and clearly, you know, a little bit of a rib, but we understand that yeah though the way that it works. yeah But it's it's just one of those things, right, where, like, you know, I i think, and we we were talking a little bit about this but before before we started rolling, but, like, the amount of of runway that exists in like the toy industry. And we you know, we, we talk about this with, with guest guests from all walks of company, whether it's, you know, one man run indie company where the one guy is doing the toy design, the art direction, he's doing everything right to, you know, these bigger, you know, larger companies at the end of the day, a toy still takes like 12 to 18 months. yeah yeah for sure you know So it's just, it's, it but, ah but I, I love the fact that that little,
00:25:25
Speaker
Artifact is out there because at the time right like spider-man 3 was pretty much maligned by the audiences when that when that movie came out and now in in you know, kind of the meme culture and years on, it now has this sort of kind of reverence for it. So the idea that there could have been a Spider-Man 4, you know, like that. Well, the other thing too is if you follow that stuff or followed it at the time, like they were pretty close to like saying, all right, off we go. Yeah, I mean, they made the announcement. There's one account on X that re-shares the tweet every year.
00:26:04
Speaker
It's like we're now 15 years on of the announcement of Spider-Man 4. Yeah, but like that it was almost like that Tim Burton Superman movie where they were like weeks from going into production. And then they're like, use is there nope, Andrew Garfield. Yeah. so it But again, it's just it's awesome. And it's cool too to see, like again, knowing that you worked on yeah the the packaging for the first three films, um seeing kind of the evolution, like where your head was to, or first two, sorry, where where the um the evolution you know was headed, like what where or kind of where your head was at, you know what you were thinking, because you know those those two um those two films had, at the time, some of the best and most iconic Spider-Man figures like to date. Yeah, absolutely. you know and and the And the packaging was awesome for them.
00:26:56
Speaker
And that was still out of time too, you know with Toys R Us and the toy stores where you had the Spiderman section of of the story.
Designing for the 2003 Hulk Film
00:27:06
Speaker
But you were also seeing that stuff for like the first time. So it was, you weren't having this like, oh, I'll see this in a couple months. like You saw it out and that was, yeah you had your reaction there. Yep.
00:27:19
Speaker
yeah yeah i'm seeing that twenty But down just go back to the Spider-Man port thing. It was hiding in plain sight for 10 years. but You know, there's so much stuff on the internet like that, though. that like Yeah, there really is. It's wild. It's it's absolutely wild how how internet culture works. and like Like you said, you know you have you have an armchair Dick Tracy that's like the lost media world where some of it is lost and some of it is just like, oh, no, here it is. It under it was under this rug.
00:27:50
Speaker
yeah you know like um So you also got to work on some super unique packaging for um figures sticking in the Marvel world on the 2003 Ang Lee Hulk film. What was the process of pitching like this very unconventional packaging style and other unconventional packaging styles over over the years? Are there retail accommodations that need to be considered for that or is it just like here's what we're going with? um Yeah, so
00:28:22
Speaker
going to the the hulk stuff there and actually some fallout from the spider-man 4 thing so i had i got an email from a guy's like oh i went to your website chris i was so happy to discover you worked on like my favorite movie and i'm doing a hulk man cave now and he showed me this whole 3d rendering on but it was actually pretty slick you know and he's doing like a a full-size you know package type of thing and then he was doing some of the Uh, he also do like a 3d sculptor and some of the Hulk dogs that, you know, of a I think, you know, ah one that wasn't produced and he was going to produce a one-off. It's like, I was hoping you can help me design the package. I'm i'm like, dude, again, that was 13 years ago. I don't have any of the assets, but you know, best of luck with your, your man cave endeavor there. But, uh, but, but getting back to the package, one interesting about not only working on hope, but
00:29:20
Speaker
a bunch of films ah over the years, right? um the you You know, you sign your NDA, confidential agreement. And so it sends you a bunch of watermark stuff of, you know, concept art or set photos or, you know, on on occasion, you know, for other ah films, you know, you go to the studio, you're locked in a room for two hours, you read the script and then give the script back.
00:29:51
Speaker
And then you know you formulate your ideas from there, you're allowed to take notes or whatever. But ah going going back to the Hulk thing, right? So I don't know if you guys remember that scene in Hulk with the containment unit there. you know And so how how do we, you know, try, I mean, it was an iconic shape, iconic moment of movies. So like, how do we create a structure that's, you know, mimics that containment unit? So that's what we ended up doing at the end of the day. um And in terms of retail considerations and, and um you know, packaging footprint, you kind of keep, um if
00:30:28
Speaker
kind of like what the standard is in that action figure aisle because, you know, different retailers have different rules of when there's replenishment and and all that good stuff, right? So you want to get as many, um you know, pegs or as many packages on ah on a peg as you can, right? And then, as you know, with retail, um you know, a buyer, a particular store, comes I'm going to give you two feet in the boys aisle, I'm going to give you a foot in the boys aisle, right? So you want to maximize the amount of product of of you You know of your product in that particular aisle, right? So you have to be mindful of those of those footprint considerations Yeah, I mean it it that was one of those things were you know as I got older I started to kind of think about it like oh, it's like oh that packaging has two J hooks on it like and takes up to like it's like a double way. Yeah, you know yeah like the consideration of like oh that could have been a
00:31:24
Speaker
to Two signals. Yeah, twice as much product, but they ended up you know using a two-pack here. so like I just love thinking about kind of the mental gymnastics of you know that consideration too, because it's not only you know how big are you making this package. Is it a larger figure than usual? Is it something that's a larger scale? Is it something that can fit into the normal package?
00:31:47
Speaker
how do you Position the figure in the package in order to fit, you know a larger figure in the same kind of package and I mean Yeah, yeah absolutely. I mean you do have to look at the the Scale the the scale of the figures, right? So you may have a character like hope for this So you may have like the Bruce Banner then versus the Hulk, right? There's probably an inch and a half difference or more in between ah between those two characters. So You know and you know Banner and and the Hulk and whomever are on the same assortment, right? So you kind of have to figure out determine what that package size is um Funny story about working on the Hulk right so We are developing a package and you know, sometimes they'll send your product so you can kind of figure out like what's the best type of Packaging to put this in right so we got ah you know 10 of
00:32:40
Speaker
Like one of, I don't know, 20 pre-production of the Hulk hands, big Hulk hands, right? ye So I, I, I'd gone to an Eagles game and brought them. Where'd you get those? It was pretty crazy.
00:32:56
Speaker
That's the right color. That's right. Yeah. I feel like that became a trend too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was the ah or early adopter and the originator. I'd like to say because they were not market then Chris Madsker trendsetter. That's that's really, that's really what it boils down to. yeah Um, no, but I, that's, it's one of those things with superheroes. Like you said, like the, the size is so different. I mean, like in wrestling, sure. You have some guys that are, you know, taller than, but For the most part, you're working with guys that are like in that like six foot range in real life, yeah you know, somewhere. But like, I just got a certain action figure that I was, I was shocked that it, you know, taller than average figure in the same bubble as, you know, a normal size and the the way that they did it was like the tray kind of just ended.
00:33:45
Speaker
and then Her legs were just crouched so that way I could fit in there and I was like, oh this is that was clever. Okay, yeah cool Must have been a partial window box then. Yes. Yes. I was blessed. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep It had like a little trying to see if I could no actually, you know what it is. It was a full blister No, it wasn't but it has the little like cutaway thing at the bottom. I don't know what what you call it. So we got like a blister band, right? Yes. So it kind of hides. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. So very, very, very interesting. Again, like that the mental gymnastics of, you know, of dealing with that and um something else that I think is a fun consideration. We kind of alluded to this earlier on when we were talking about the the Ring of Honor ah packaging and kind of Jasper's fault. But like,
00:34:31
Speaker
Ultimately, when it boils down to a rate, you have two types of collectors. You have the the ones that are are leaving things in the box and ones that are opening it. um So as a packaging designer, i is that something, do do you consider both experiences when you're when you're designing packaging or are you kind of focused more on on one or the other?
00:34:52
Speaker
and No, we do. yeah I mean, I would say we probably, first and foremost, keep the collector in mind, right? um So, for example, some of the AEW stuff, right? So, we tried to pose them in a package in one of their iconic, you know, poses or whatever, or, you know, that reflects their in-ring personality.
00:35:15
Speaker
and We also try to, when we put the inner blister, not to have too much covering the figure. um And then even what we do is, is um you know there might be a soft good. um you know So we try to put a buffer between the plastic and the soft good with some you know plastic that's hidden. So there's no marking ah you know on on the figure itself.
00:35:41
Speaker
um But yeah, and then, you know, first and foremost, ah you know, we just try to keep it again ah for the collector. And I remember we did, what was it? Attack on Titan, a San Diego Comic Con thing that we did, right? So with that, which interesting, it would it was a bit of a challenge, right? So it was Aaron, you know, coming off the roof with a sword or whatever, right? ah And they had the sort of wall behind them.
00:36:12
Speaker
And the challenge there was how we don't, we didn't want anything heat sealed to any of the paper, right? Because we wanted the whole top to come off. ye Um, and then also with the, the inner blister was holding Aaron in the action pose on top of the roof, again, not heat sealed. So everything was either tabbed in or tucked under. So you take all the plastic components off. And if you were, you know, so desired to do the whole playing display thing.
00:36:42
Speaker
you had this great roof and the wall behind it that was unmarred from any of the heat sealing tape or any of that sort of thing. So yeah. and and And that's one of the things that I love about the ring of honor figures and some of the you know ringside exclusive ones is because I i open everything. yeah Um, but I like when I can save certain packaging, like packaging that's, that's more than just kind of like your, like,
00:37:07
Speaker
Like the unrivaled and unmatched figures, like there's no way to get those figures out without really, yeah you know, destroying the packaging and in yeah the process, which is, you know, cathartic. And it brings us back to our childhood, you know, childhoods, right? Like opening up toys. Like it's, it, there is a fun element to that. But at the same time, like.
00:37:24
Speaker
You know, I have Switchblade, you know, Jay White right here, but I i saved the box with the, you know, with the slip cover because it's such a cool design. And like that's, you know, at some point I would love to have that out on display with some other, you know, packaging examples that I, you know, that I i really love. So like... Or even going back to the original, like Jericho with the champagne bottle. Yeah, bubbly. You know, that's another one that like, you can open that, enjoy everything inside of it, seal that thing back up and... leave it on display. it's like and i As somebody who opens everything, I love when packaging gives me that option. um you know just because Again, like I appreciate the entire package, pun intended this time.
Balancing Creativity and Mass Production
00:38:06
Speaker
yeah um you know I appreciate the whole thing, but at the end of the day, you know like I want to get to the toy.
00:38:10
Speaker
so Yeah, especially with those window boxes like, like, you know, switch plate or whatever, all you gotta do is just cut the little wafer seal at the top, pop it on and then slide out the yeah inner tray and you're good to go. yeah Yeah, I think one of my favorite ones were the two TNT championship ones. Oh, yeah. Have that like entrance.
00:38:30
Speaker
yeah Yeah, that would and then light it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With the printed acetate in the back, you know, kind of easter egg and put your iPhone light behind it and kind of light up the stage and e even the Supremes have that, that, you know, yeah a factor to them too. Or if you, if you're careful enough when you're opening them, you kind of have a little bit of a.
00:38:51
Speaker
built-in display with them. Or if you don't open it, you have the extra stuff on the side. It's funny. Every once in a while, I'll be like, let's see what the reviews are, influencers or the YouTube guys and do their unboxing.
00:39:11
Speaker
and i'm like No, no, do not open it from that side. nothing like I think it opens up from here. it's like oh ah okay No, you missed the point. Yeah, yes it's one of those things. that's it's It's interesting. i do From an unboxing standpoint, I love watching people Like, even as somebody who does this stuff, I love watching other people open Unmatched and Unrivaled figures, so I'm like, how do you open it? Like, like how do you open it? Which part of the packaging do you mangle first? Like, have you figured it out? ah So now I do it from the bottom. Yes. is Is how I open them. Yeah, and then you can slide out the... You can slide the tray out and you leave the... But like, I love when people go for the the top.
00:39:58
Speaker
or just chaos like pure purer there's card where there's a little like strips of cardwood that are coming off there's it's yeah but i yeah i go from the bottom now he's got it i remember the first time i opened the dust I remember the first time I opened up the ring of honor and Ring of Honor figure. I'm like, okay, I see tape, I see tape. Oh wait, this is a slipcover.
00:40:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's there's something to be said about the chaos of opening like a classic like blister card where she's like, you know, rip it off yeah and then and something to the, you know, the the alternative. um I think it's it's a little bit a little bit for for everyone.
00:40:39
Speaker
um But ah you know with with that in mind, like everything that we've kind of discussed, um you know you've talked a lot about this the successes, right the things that have gone right, the things that, you know that the the kind of how smooth the process generally is. But um you know what what are some of the challenges that you know you've kind of faced over the years ah and things you've encountered you know while while designing packaging? Yeah. i mean um I would say some of the challenges are if you want to sort of come up um with a design that uses like um an unconventional structure or material or or printing technique, you know, you have it in your mind and sometimes it's just not achievable in mass production, right? So you kind of have to
00:41:30
Speaker
ah tone it down a little bit or modify it so it can meet um efficient production standards, right? Because as you know, you know, these things are whipping off of assembly line and there's a couple people just like folding them up, hand it to the next person. But if it takes a little bit too long for that to fold up, you know, the fact of like, no, no, yeah. So, um,
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's some things that, you know, you think are, oh, it's the greatest, you know, idea or whatever. And in practice, it's just like, well, it's just not going to happen. Right. So. Well, like for, for example, like the, the, the, the unrivaled and unmatched packaging, like how long did it take for you to kind of.
00:42:20
Speaker
land on that design for for those those two kind of like mainline I mean I know like um some of the a couple other people were working out prior to I jumped on the line it's just really Kevin Tully and um If you know you know jemy Jeremy Padilla, of course he was um ah over at Jax when they did the classic. group yeah yeah definite So you can see our packaging packaging is kind of an homage to that type of thing. right and And that was very, very specific and very intentional.
00:42:55
Speaker
Um, but yeah, you know, just coming through like the dye line and how it figures out, right? So like, I think some of the challenges are like, you've got to figure this out and yeah, yeah, you can do your drawing of how it appears in 3d or whatever, but like ultimately it's going to be printed flat and die cut, right? So how do you translate that 3d to 2d in, um, so it could be, um, uh, produced in an efficient manner, right?
00:43:24
Speaker
So yeah, you know, it's it's always a challenge to the get something that works the first time. So you've mentioned a couple of times throughout the episode here of like working with other super talented people, artists, you know, that help you kind of bring these packages to life. So little known fact about Adventures in Collecting, we do have a hotline. We often have to dust it off. People,
00:43:52
Speaker
but We will forget that we have a phone number. and We get the air in a can. Yeah, i'm I'm gonna read it off right now because it's been a while since we've said it on air but if you are listening and you want to leave us a message and you want to be heard on the show we do we will accommodate we will accommodate and our our our number is one nine seven three and seven five zero eight two five six and you can call it at any time of the day you will not bother a single person it is nobody's house yeah you're you're not calling us somebody's cell phone a house it will go straight to voicemail every time do not be scared however the the the um
00:44:38
Speaker
robotic AI thing that was answering the phone is now a skeleton. So yeah um yeah just know that, you know, nobody's answering it. Yeah, it's just there's no going to hear it later but anyway, so we have somebody that ah that reached out to us, Chris, ah a familiar, a familiar friend, ah he's going to introduce himself, I think on this voicemail. But he left us a voicemail. So I'm gonna I'm gonna play it. And i And we'll we'll respond to it. So here, let's ah and hold it up to the mic here.
00:45:16
Speaker
Hi, this is Harry Moore. And I just wanted to leave a little message for your podcast that's coming up in Chris Metzger. um You and your fan base may know what I have done in the toy industry for the last few years, but I just wanted to give a shout out because Chris Metzger is the person that gave me my foot in the door to the toy industry. And I don't want to hijack his his podcast. Maybe a good subject for him to talk about would be all of the artists and illustrators that he's kind of dealt with in his role day to day that he has given some people their first start and also you know what it's like to try to manage an illustrator and get you know the desired results. It's not easy and he has a lot of patience to deal with people like me. Good luck.
00:46:10
Speaker
so So Harry Moore, incredible, incredible artist. Harry, thank you for for calling in. Yeah. um Listeners, i you might be most familiar with his most recent work. He he did a lot of work on um on the Marvel Legends VHS box art. He does a lot of the re the art on the um the retro releases. So ah you know you're you're seeing his stuff you know kind of every day recently if you're if you're a Marvel Legends collector. but ah But yeah, he saw you were coming on and and he wanted to wanted to leave you a voicemail. So ah yeah went on go ahead. And and what so what's it like ah getting getting the best out of your your designers and your
Managing Illustrators and Exploring New Designs
00:46:50
Speaker
illustrators? I feel like i like this is your life, Chris Metzger. I was hoping to be my third grade teacher, Sister Mary Anthony. but She's next. I was going to say, we have Sister Mary Anthony on the line. No, I mean, you know,
00:47:07
Speaker
harry Harry's a super talented guy, and I remember when when he when he first came, he's work he was working on some of the X-Men stuff and some of the Avengers stuff. um And it's funny that some of the Spider-Man retro stuff that he's working on now is actually stuff that I had worked on, you know, see, 20 years ago, maybe. So it's cool to see it come full circle that way. but You know, getting back to, you know, managing, um you know, artists, illustrators, that sort of thing, and being patient with them. I don't know, I kind of feel in the same boat sometimes with, ah you know, our my marketing and but and branding counterparts as well, you know, being patient with the creatives, right? um But um
00:47:53
Speaker
you know You just got to respect the talent. right and you know If you're patient with them and respectful to them and and push them, you're you're going to get the very best out of them. Harry, when he first came to work for me, you know he he was just out. He was a younger kid, ah you know full of Talent and energy and you know, and you just got to harness all that and and focus right, you know because we're obviously we're we're creatives, but we're in the we're in the business of toy packaging, right so There's a balance there right, you know to not only be creative but sort of be in line with the overarching business objectives, right? So yeah um Like I said, and there was there was a couple other guys
00:48:43
Speaker
Probably not. i just Mo Moussa, a really talented guy. ah Now he does infographics at someplace in, I don't know, West Coast somewhere. A couple other super talented the illustrators, a guy named Don Cassidy. He used to be out of Kansas. I think he's down in Tennessee now.
00:49:02
Speaker
um but yeah you know and and you know the the one of the most recent illustrators I've been working with, I mentioned before, the ROH stuff, um ah Mel Coleman out out of Toronto and super talented and you know they you just gotta push them and you know and you know get the best out of them.
00:49:25
Speaker
yeah And, and Harry actually gave me, backed me into a question that I was going to kind of throw at you here, which is how, what is it like seeing those designs that you, that you literally, like you pioneered, you put those together. There's some of the most iconic, you know, toy biz era designs, like they're back on shelves. with come back Like them like it's it's crazy. What is that? What is that like for you? No, it's cool. And it's it's just like, you know, what,
00:49:55
Speaker
goes around, comes around. you know what What is old is new is is is is popular again. right And I just appreciate the fact that you know Harry gets to work on him. So it's kind of come full circle, really. you know Very cool.
00:50:10
Speaker
So yeah very awesome this is the part of the show where we we normally have a a Q and&A. and We're going to try something different this time. We got a lot of questions that were like kind of very similar and stuff that we talked about a lot on the last episode. So I was just privately DMing people like, go listen to the last episode. So what we're going to do is, instead of doing a a full Q and&A, we have a featured question of the week. So um Dave.
00:50:38
Speaker
Please remind our listeners, remind our viewers, if you want to have a question featured on Adventures in Collecting and you're you're not calling the hotline, um what is what is the other way that they can submit a question to be featured ah when we have a guest on?
00:50:56
Speaker
So whether we're featuring one question or many, here's what you can do. um What we'll have is when we announce a ah ah guest for the episode, the upcoming episode, we will have a little box in our Instagram story, which is at AIC underscore podcast. And um if you tap on that box, you can type in a question. We see it.
00:51:22
Speaker
um You may even get responded to by Eric. You don't know. I don't know. Who knows? um But what you may get is your question read on the air. And that's really cool. um So if you're watching this on YouTube, thank you. Make sure to like and subscribe.
00:51:41
Speaker
um And yeah, you can head on over to Instagram. And dave that's exactly what you're going to do right now is you are going to I'm going to read this question. You're going to read the question. So this is our featured question of the week.
00:51:58
Speaker
So there's also the possibility that I will misread your handle. um It has happened many a time. If you misread this one, I'm gonna check on it. I'm gonna get in the car. i Yeah, I think I got this one. I think I got this one. Friend of the Pod at Toyfars asks, what are the three key ingredients for great packaging? Excellent question, right?
00:52:25
Speaker
um And I think we touched on it a little bit before right so I think the packaging has to complement um The product and vice versa right so um You know first and foremost it it has to be on brand right um Secondly, I think it needs to show the the ah figure or product in a good light, meaning that it's it's easily ah viewable if it's ah um a blister card or a window box. um And then third, just great design, right?
00:53:05
Speaker
um But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's ah it's always ah always it's always a challenge. But if you sort of bring those three things together, I think you'll you'll get a successful package, right? There you go. Yeah. And that has been our featured question. I was just going to say brute force force and sheer will. you Also that. but f Five key ingredients. There's more than three.
00:53:30
Speaker
yeah Yeah, persistence. Well, no, they no, there I think there's byproducts, not ingredients, right? So brute force and sheer will. What are the byproducts of that, right? that's Fair.
00:53:43
Speaker
Yeah. So ah this brings us to our our ah our final question for you, Chris. And as you are a returning guest, our um our typical first question, or our typical question, last question that we ask has been amended. ah We have a new question for you to answer. Specific for you. Yes, this is tailored.
00:54:07
Speaker
specifically to you. We have a returning guest. that is a It is a more tailored, curated, nurtured question. yes yes Bespoke, even. Bespoke, yes. Love that word. um So Dave, would you like to fulfill your role as this podcast's James Lipton and ask our amended final question?
00:54:29
Speaker
Why, yes, I would. Chris, your amended final question, as you are a returning guest. If you could design the packaging for any product, toy or otherwise, what would it be and why? Any product. it' Good question.
00:54:53
Speaker
yeah I think I pretty much ran the the toy gamut there, so let's let's think outside of toys here, right? Um, what am I big fan of?
00:55:06
Speaker
Um, good question. yeah i might might You may have s stumped me. I don't know. So, um, but let's look at, um, take something iconic. Like yeah I wear, I wear van sneakers, right? So yeah pack it likes let's, let's rethink the shoe box. You know, that's, that's a great, that's a great one.
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's awesome. Yeah, I don't know why but the first thing I thought of was like a Coke can. I was gonna say is it weird that I thought of food too? Yeah, like i I went like either coke can or for some reason I was thinking a Tide bottle. I don't Yeah, I don't know. but if you You're going to be shocked when I say Chicken McNuggets. Chicken McNuggets. Yeah, not shocked at all. That's very embarrassing. No, not. Yeah, but but if you redesign the shoebox, like how many kids are going to be left out with the materials and resources, do dioramas for their school projects, right? Mm-hmm. Yep, yep. No more dioramas. No no more um ah cotton ball igloos, or no, ah no, ah marshmallow igloos inside. Yeah. inside yeah
00:56:17
Speaker
Cottonball clouds. Yeah, that's the one. i For some reason, that's the diorama that I always remember having to make. Cottonball snow, too. Yeah, like snow with marshmallow igloos. Exactly. Going to the dollar store and getting the little dollar store animals to plug in there. But yeah. so that I would get dinosaurs just for laughs. like Yeah, you'd love that. Or break your wookie, you know, like Ralph Wigg. Yeah, yeah you know fun toys are fun indeed.
00:56:46
Speaker
um so that Chris, that's that's a wrap, man. that's That's all the questions. Before we let you go, um a heartfelt thank you for again for taking the time to chat with us. It is always a pleasure. um We are fascinated by you know the the how the sausage gets made part of the ah the industry. so Hearing you know the ins and outs of the packaging is is always fascinating. yeah Hearing about the art that goes with the art. The art and the art of the art.
00:57:12
Speaker
ah But remind our followers our viewers. Where can they find? um Where can they find you on on Instagram online? And um and where can they get the latest news on ah on all things jazzwares? So I think my Instagram handle is C underscore M underscore Metzger M E T Z G E R um And then follow jazzwares on insta. I think it's just ah jazzwares and if you want to follow the AEW stuff, it's AEW by jazzwares on social. so yeah awesome Have a look. Have a look and follow. Well, thank you again so much for coming on. We'll make sure we put all the links to um those handles in the show notes so that way you can go and tap and you did you nailed your your handle. You had it. It was perfect.
00:58:03
Speaker
yeah um yeah and ah and And with that, I think, Dave, it's time to say ah it's time to say goodbye, so let's send us home. Yeah, just ah make sure to save that packaging. Thank you, dear listener, for hanging out with us today. Subscribe, rate, and review us wherever you listen, and then tell your friends to do it. Thanks also to Joe Azari, the golden voice behind our intro. Our music is Game Boy Horror by the Zombie Dandies. Find more about them both on our show notes. Follow us on social media at AIC underscore podcast on Instagram and Twitter. Stop by and say hi. Show us your toy hauls and share your toy stories. Maybe we'll talk about it in a future episode.
00:58:50
Speaker
don't try this at home voidwa prohibited in some assembly required each sold separately not a flying toy consult a physician if your toy run exceeds more than four hours
00:58:59
Speaker
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