Transcript
Speaker: Two nerds went to college and found each other in the English department basement and became instant friends. Eight years and three degrees later, they're reunited. You're listening to Book Club, the movie, the podcast.
Speaker: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Book Club, the movie, the podcast, where we read, watch, and discuss books and their film adaptations. I'm your host, Jen. And i'm your other host, Em.
Speaker: We hope you read the book. But if you didn't, here's the summary. Caution, spoilers ahead.
Speaker: Published in 1995, Practical Magic tells the story of Sally and Jillian Owens, orphaned sisters raised by their two eccentric and witchy aunts. For more than two centuries, the Owens women have been blamed for nearly every misfortune in their small Massachusetts town, leaving Sally and Jillian to grow up as outsiders, taunted by their classmates and feared by their neighbors.
Speaker: Meanwhile, women from all over town secretly visit the Owens' house after dark, seeking the ants' help with spells, especially love spells. As they grow up, Sally and Jillian take very different paths in their attempts to escape their family's reputation.
Speaker: Sally longs for an ordinary life while Jillian runs wild, leaving home as soon as she can. Years later, a dangerous relationship brings Jillian back into Sally's life, forcing the sisters to confront their family history, their relationship with love and with magic, and the bond that has always connected them.
Speaker: Alice Hoffman was born in New York City in 1952 and received her Master of Arts in Creative Writing from Stanford University. Her career as a novelist began almost by accident.
Speaker: After publishing her first short story, At the Drive-In, in Fiction Magazine in 1974, The editor asked her if she had a novel. She did not, but she began writing it.
Speaker: Hoffman's first novel, Property Of, was published a few years later in 1977 when she was just 25 years old. Since then, Alice Hoffman has written more than 30 works of fiction, often blending the ordinary with the extraordinary through magical realism. Her stories frequently explore love, loss, family, relationships, and the ways the past can follow us into the present,
Speaker: all themes that come together in practical magic. You know, a lot of people watch practical magic as their official start to spooky season. What is the first thing you do every year that officially feels like fall?
Speaker: That is a hard, hard question. I don't know that I necessarily have, like, a ritual for welcoming in the fall season. I have a home, so, like, I changed out my wreath on my door, And this year I added fall-themed doormat.
Speaker: So what about you? it is still too warm down here in order for it to, like, truly feel like fall. um But today I did wear jeans to the doctor's appointment that I had at 2 o'clock. And that made me feel like, ooh, I'm wearing a t-shirt and a lot of sunscreen. But...
Speaker: My legs are covered. Nobody can see how hairy they are. And that kind of feels like fall. It's a new form of fall down south. Yeah.
Speaker: Practical Magic was directed by Griffin Dunn, who was born in New York in 1955 and grew up in a family deeply connected to writing and film. His father, Dominic Dunn, was a writer, producer, and journalist, and his mother, Ellen Griffin Dunn, became a victim's right advocate after the murder of their daughter, Griffin's younger sister, Dominique, in 1982.
Speaker: Griffin began his career primarily as an actor and is most recognizable for his roles in An American Werewolf in London, After Hours, Dallas Buyers Club, and This Is Us. He eventually took on the role of director as well, directing several feature films, including Practical Magic in 1998.
Speaker: Fun fact, Joan Didion is his aunt, and he directed the documentary Joan Didion, The Center Will Not Hold, about her life and work. Both the book and the movie opened with nearly identical language. Quote, for more than 200 years, the Owens women have been blamed for everything that has gone wrong in town. End quote.
Speaker: Yeah, right away the Owens women are established as outsiders and specifically as women the town uses as scapegoats. The Owens House on Magnolia Street is also a big part of the beginning of the book. Its appearance, atmosphere, and its reputation around town almost make it a character within the story. The book gives the Owens House a dark, strange, like secretive vibe. um Pulling a direct quote here, ah "'Inside the house there were no clocks and no mirrors and three lock locks on each and every door. It was dark in every room, even at noon and cool all throughout the heat of July.'" And meanwhile, the Owens house in the movie feels like a cottage fairytale home, complete with midnight margaritas.
Speaker: And that difference carries over into how we learn about the Owens family itself. The book allows the Owens family history to unfold gradually, keeping some mystery around exactly why the town fears these women. Meanwhile, the movie immediately shows the Owens matriarch and her struggles that led to the curse on the Owens woman, opening with a scene of the Puritan-dressed townspeople gathered to hang Maria Owens as a witch. And that that all works to establish the curse that will ultimately drive Sally's entire romantic storyline.
Speaker: I did think it was a little silly that the aunts, so Aunt Jet, she was played by Diane Wiest, and Aunt Frances, played by Stockard Channing, who we love, said the woman... said the woman on the hanging committee wanted to hang Maria because of her gift and not the fact that, quote, most of her lovers had wives on the hanging committee. Yeah, I thought that was funny, too.
Speaker: um the movie absolutely had fun with the family lore. Um, but I'm curious which version does a better job, which version of the beginning of the story does a better job pulling you into the Practical Magic story world?
Speaker: They were both very similar, but the visuals were so different. um I think that watching Aunt Maria jump down from the gallows and then the rope snapping was really interesting. But still, I kind of think that the book drew me in a little bit better. Like I had more of a what's going to happen next kind of feeling at the beginning of the book, whereas how the movie, it just it didn't do as much for me. Yeah, that makes sense. How about you?
Speaker: I think the movie beginning was, I don't know, a little more engaging, but also that's coming from, like, I definitely saw this movie first before I read the book. I've seen the movie many times. I've only read the book once.
Speaker: um So I think my expectations were primed for what the movie covers and not necessarily the book. But of course, I tried to ah i tried to read it with an open mind. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: know that makes sense. I think it's interesting how the movie opening very blatantly calls out the Owens women as a family of witches. In the book, the magic is a lot more subtle.
Speaker: The book opening sets us up for that generational story about the Owens family, but then the movie opening sets us up for, you know, something completely different. By focusing on Maria being abandoned by the man that she loves and then creating the curse, followed by Sally, played by Sandra Bullock in the movie, and Jillian, played by Nicole Kidman, Their parents die from the curse, and that causes Sally to create her spell for the impossible man, so she'll never fall in love.
Speaker: The movie's setting us up for a romance dramedy-type movie. Do you think the movie improves the story by giving this clear romantic through line, or do you think it changes what practical magic is supposed to be about?
Speaker: The book and the movie are different kinds of stories. They come from the same story world, the same story universe, but the movie is definitely like a ah romance. Whereas the book definitely is more of like the generational family story, you know, and I think the book's really about like sisterhood. Ultimately, I think they're kind of different stories.
Speaker: We have another book structured in four parts, Superstition, Premonitions, Clairvoyance, and Levitation. Superstition, the first section, is doing a lot of work when it comes to background and character development. But I think Superstition is a really fitting title because so much of it is about what people believe, which isn't always actually true.
Speaker: We start with the townspeople and their superstitions about the Owens women, their home on Magnolia Street, and Sally and Jillian's challenging upbringing as a result of being one of the Owens women.
Speaker: But we also get all the smaller superstitions and signs woven into everyday life. Omens, plants, animals, weather, things that supposedly predict love or death or bad luck. And I think the subtlety of the book is something that's very interesting in the story world. We're not always clear where superstition ends and actual magic begins.
Speaker: And mostly, I think that it establishes the magical rules of the book as well as the beliefs of the townspeople, which caused Sally and Jillian to form beliefs about themselves.
Speaker: The second section, premonitions, actually begins with a premonition, quote, crossed knives set out on the dinner table means there's bound to be a quarrel, end quote. And that feels like a heavy dose of foreshadowing considering this section is where the stability Sally has built for herself really starts to wobble. Jillian reenters Sally's life and brings along her sordid boyfriend Jimmy, played by Goran Viznic. The third section, clairvoyance, begins with instruction, quote, if a woman is in trouble, she should always wear blue for protection, end quote. And by this point, the Owens women could probably use all the protection they could get.
Speaker: This section of the book starts to shift from the warnings of the previous sections to actually seeing and understanding what's already there. Kylie especially seems attuned to the strange things happening around the house, and Sally can no longer totally ignore the supernatural world she's always tried to avoid. Then the fourth and final section, Levitation, begins with, Always keep mint on your windowsill in August to ensure that buzzing flies will stay outside where they belong. Never presume August is a safe and reliable time of the year.
Speaker: Which is basically the book telling us not to be lulled into thinking things are okay because they are definitely not okay. um I think levitation is actually a pretty interesting title for the final section because there's this sense of things finally being lifted and resolved. And looking at all four sections together, there almost seems to be this emotional progression underscoring the titles, like superstition is belief, premonitions are warnings, clairvoyance is finally seeing what's happening, and levitation is release. It's interesting because the book sounds really structured, but I don't think it actually feels that way when you're reading it.
Speaker: The writing style was really lovely, very pleasant to read. it was definitely in line with the kind of thing that my therapist says that I need to be reading. But I also thought it meandered a little bit. In our last episode, we were talking about how Stephen King tends to get lost in the finer details sauce and not zoom out enough. This wasn't exactly that, but it felt like it could have been edited down way more.
Speaker: and that might just be because it was told in an omniscient third-person point of view. What do you think? I agree that the narration has this dreamy, wandering quality to it where where in one moment we'll be following Sally and then suddenly we're inside Jillian's head or Kylie's or we're getting this like lovely observation about love or plants or a witchy herbalist pro tip about rosemary, which is the beauty of an omniscient third-person point of view. It allows Hoffman to move freely between characters and generations, which I thought worked beautifully for a story that's ultimately about a family of these women.
Speaker: But unlike Misery, I wasn't like bothered as much with the wandering prose. Maybe because we could move between characters and also maybe because this book did not leave me feeling emotionally unregulated like Misery did. Fair point. even though hoffman gives us access to all the owens women The relationship at the center of the book is really between Sally and Jillian. The aunts describe them as night and day. They're close in age and although they grew up in exactly the same oddball household, they're ostracized in town in the same way and they grew up to be almost completely opposite. Yeah, I see Sally as this archetype of the practical, responsible, self-sacrificing older sister who will do anything for stability and normalcy, while Jillian is the archetype of the reckless younger sister who runs away from home and develops a taste for bad dudes. It's like Sally responds to their unconventional childhood by trying to control everything on the outside, while Jillian responds by refusing to let anyone or anything control her. Right.
Speaker: They had a less than stellar childhood, and they definitely reacted in in in different ways once they reached adulthood. As soon as they got driver's license, cars, and had to pay taxes, they just shot off in different directions. I don't really think Jillian fits into, like, an antagonist role in a traditional sense. Nothing like that.
Speaker: She's messy just like she was as a kid and a teen. Now she's able to find herself in bigger, messier situations, and Sally is still feeling the need to clean up after her, even though they don't really talk that much for a good decade. They're both stuck in the same pattern from their childhood.
Speaker: In their childhood, there was no bedtimes. The aunts never reminded them to brush their teeth and fed them candy and desserts as meals. I'm sure they had cavity breath. Yeah. so Sally was parentified and in charge of dinners and cleaning and all the things that adults taking care of children should do. The aunts do admit that they did the best they could and it probably wasn't very good, but it wasn't it wasn't enough for me for their childhoods. Yeah, I think their childhood is what makes the night and day thing like a little more complicated than just like one sister's good and the other one's bad because they developed these roles as children and they continue to play out the same roles as adults but with much higher stakes like prison. Um, if they were convicted of murder, which I think is important when we get to Jimmy, because it would be really easy to frame him as another example of Jillian's poor taste in men, but he's not just a bad dude, he's actually abusing Jillian and she's actually afraid for her life. Right.
Speaker: Which brings me to a question from my dear friend and writer Mara Lammers, who is published in the New York Times, so people should check her out. I was recently on a weekend getaway with her and I told her we were covering this book and movie and she told me it was one of her favorite books as a child. It was one of the first language-forward novels she read and the details in and vivid imagery throughout inspired her writing from a young age. However, she did admit that she picked it up around like 12 or 13, and now she feels like that was a little young to be reading a novel with so much domestic violence and sexual violence.
Speaker: Personally, i have a niece who's 14 and she's a freshman in high school, which I'm not okay with, and i wouldn't give her this book to read based on the Kylie birthday cake scene alone. I also read books that I was definitely too young for, but I didn't really understand what was going on in them. So i don't know how much it mattered. Or maybe it totally did. And that is what is ah shaped parts of my personality. We'll never know.
Speaker: i mean, sure. i read The Lovely Bones in seventh grade because it was the librarian's pick and it absolutely fucked me up. Um, but But Mara's question more so got me thinking about how the darkness of the book kind of snuck up on me. I think we should probably put like a content warning here before we get any further, but we're going to be talking about domestic violence and sexual violence for the next few minutes. So fast forward if you don't like that, friends. Anyway, so if you read the book, um or if you've seen the movie, really, either way, um Jimmy, he is an abusive, controlling, and physically violent boyfriend. And the book also depicts sexual violence within that relationship. Like, Jillian has to drug him to manage his sexual demands and his violence. Yeah.
Speaker: Um, on top of that, there are threats of sexual violence that recur around most of our main characters. I think especially of that terrifying scene where Kylie is, she's, like carrying the cake and she's pursued through a field.
Speaker: Thankfully, she outruns the two dudes who, like, absolutely intend to sexually assault her. Um, but she's, like... She's not even 16 at that point, right? She's like 13. That's terrifying. She was young. Yeah. She's 13. I mean, it's around her birthday. but um And then even Gary, who is supposed to be like in a character in total contrast to Jimmy, um Gary has an internal moment where he imagines forcing Sally sexually and ignoring a refusal, but of course, he's not that kind of guy.
Speaker: So, um just kind of like through these examples, like I'm curious what you thought about that and and did it feel like Hoffman was intentionally exploring women's vulnerability to male violence or did this content just kind of like age poorly since we're reading it in 2026 having experienced a lot since it came out 1995?
Speaker: to be perfectly honest, as I was reading this book, I was like, it's fine. It was written in the seventies or eighties. No, it wasn't.
Speaker: Like i just, I forgot to read any of the opening. i was just trying to go into it blind. Right. And so I didn't look up anything beforehand. And, and then like, I did like give myself pause, like, hold on actually. And I looked it up and I'm like, Oh, 1995, I was alive then.
Speaker: and i guess As a society, we were still pretty crummy around these sorts of things ah back then, but also you know a little bit today, too. I mean, a lot today, too, but I i don't know. Yeah.
Speaker: i don't I'm not sure if she was doing it with intention. i think because the women were able to the women and girls were able to like get away and and not like really experience it on the page, I think maybe she was trying to be intentional with it.
Speaker: Yeah, and I would say that um kind of like the writing around around the violence um wasn't like over gratuitous or anything. Yeah. So it it wasn't, it didn't feel like it was glorifying the domestic violence or sexual violence um that our characters were suffering from or like being threatened with. But yeah.
Speaker: but Yeah, I think I didn't read a lot about the book before I started reading it, but all of that just kind of surprised me. And I'm not really sure why, because I've seen the movie so many times. So I know Jimmy was a shitty dude. um But I think just like the Kylie thing and then even like getting since we have that.
Speaker: That omniscient third point of view, we got to see inside Gary's head. And even that's a little bit of a fucked up place. Yeah. And I don't be one of the good ones. Yeah. I don't, I don't think he was supposed to be ah portrayed as like maybe a little bit sus the way that he definitely was reading it from, you know, our current year. I kind of wonder if she put in those like dark-ish thoughts in Gary's head just so that he could be like, but I'm not that kind of guy. Just to like kind of tell us as readers, he's good. Trust me, oink. It just didn't really land super yeah great.
Speaker: The good guy probably probably shouldn't have to be a good dude. You probably shouldn't have that thought at all. Yeah. It shouldn't occur to you that that's an option. Maybe the sexy thought is that she's going to take advantage of you. you know, maybe like maybe like, I don't I don't know. It was just we're supposed to love Gary. We're supposed to be in love with him. Right. That's what makes this a love story um in a way on top of everything else. So I guess, OK, that that begs the question, do you think this is a love story or is it a story about sisterhood or family or sisterhood and family or finally finding a way to accept parts of yourself that you previously tried to deny? What is the story trying to say here?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I think we kind of, like, touched on this earlier, but I think the book's story is more about the Jillian and Sally relationship, like, the sisterhood relationship there. It's about, like, a multi-generational relationship.
Speaker: story of a family, many generations of a family and how they can escape a reputation or not. um And then the movie is like, it's become this like cult classic witchy romance. You know, we've got Sandra Bullock in cutoff shorts running to her first husband, Michael in the street. And they're just drawn to each other. Like, Oh, what a beautiful montage and feels so late nineties. Very much. Um,
Speaker: Yeah. um So I think they're both, I think the book and the movie are telling different stories, but they're using the same, like, backdrop. Universe. Same Yeah. Yeah. Similar bones.
Speaker: And I do feel like in the movie we lose kind of the coming-of-age storylines of Antonia and Kylie. 100%. Because, you know, the primary relationship of the book is definitely Jillian and Sally, but then we also have relationship sisterhood bond between Antonia and Kylie, and there's a period where they are not getting along. um But then by the end of it, like, they're very much...
Speaker: sisters and connected, like the whole Jimmy scene at the end, um you know, Antonia pulls Kylie out of like a sinkhole, essentially. There's this, there is a section in the book where like and Antonia, I always want to say Antonio. There's a section in the book where Antonia is like, everybody's focused on Kylie. I'm a background sister. And then I remember reading that and being like, surely that's not the case. But was Antonia really in that much of the book? I kind of felt like she was.
Speaker: relegated to the back or is that just how I remembered it reading it well I think I think we definitely focused a little more on like Kylie yeah like coming of age I'm pretty sure it was like her 13th birthday that they celebrated right and then she got her hair dyed and all that good stuff but I think before that Antonia was kind of pitched as this like she gets all the attention you know yeah Kylie kind of grew up in the background and then now Kylie is like blossoming no And um so she's getting more attention because she's like kind of growing into herself a little bit. So yes, I think Antonia has some like feelings of animosity towards her sister because her sister's starting to sparkle and shine. And she feels like that dulls her shine. Nitpick kind of for later, but also I'm going to mention it now. I'm pretty sure in the movie, the older sister is Kylie um and the younger sister is
Speaker: Kylie's actually supposed to be the younger sister, like, based on the book. Yeah. I honestly don't remember hearing either of their names whenever I watched the movie because they weren't so much characters as they were, like, set pieces. um So if they ever do...
Speaker: a remake of the original movie, which I know they won't. They just came out with a second one. I hope they get a book-accurate actress to play Kylie and make her over six feet tall, because that's hilarious.
Speaker: Yeah, the movie makes it less about the Owens' women and more about Sally finding a true love that can survive the curse. So we see young Jillian and Sally standing at the top of the stairs to spy on the ants while they do a love spell for a client. And Sally says, I hope I never fall in love twice. While Jillian has a mischievous grin and says, I can't wait to fall in love, which totally sets up their two very different paths.
Speaker: Right. Then we see young Sally making her own true love spell to find only the perfect man. And it's one with a green eye and a blue eye, can flip pancakes through the air, and can ride a pony backwards. And in her mind, this is a man who couldn't possibly exist. So other than the heterochromia, don't you think the other requirements are just like a little bit basic?
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, um riding a pony backwards probably takes some skill, but it's kind of like a random, definitely a childhood thing. Yeah,
Speaker: yeah I don't know. I also made, i never made a spell because I wasn't into that kind of thing as a kid, but i I made lists, right? So there's definitely some lists that I have in old journals of like what my perfect guy would be like. Yeah.
Speaker: Which ranged from looks, but then also to like what kinds of books he likes to read or whatever. um Yeah. so I just think she she set the bar a little bit too low. She could have ended up alone. She was probably like seven, eight, you know? Sure. We'll cut her some slack. One thing about the movie that I was kind of like bummed about was that Jillian doesn't get a good guy. She's just, she's just existing. I mean, she's still with her family, which is nice, but there's no like Ben or Ben equivalent character in the movie for Jillian. Right. I really liked how the book gave Jillian a boring man with a regular... I mean, he wasn't boring, but like, comparatively, ah he had a regular job and already got along really well with her sister, and he does stage magic with a pet rabbit.
Speaker: That's perfect. That's so silly and cute, and we didn't get any of that. They took it all away. Yeah. But just like Kylie and Antonia, Jillian just wasn't a main character in the movie. Yeah. movie was more about Sally, Sandra Bullock, and how she experienced the story.
Speaker: how about that soundtrack, though? Yeah. It was a lot of throwbacks on there. Yeah. I watched it snuggled up in my bed with brand new fresh sheets, and I sang along to Faith Hill. And it was it was great. The soundtrack really, more than anything, ah it cemented the movie in the 90s. This is a peak ninety s movie. Oh, yeah. So much nostalgia. Which is funny, because like when it came out, I was three. I wasn't watching it then.
Speaker: Now we're going to dig into the ending of Practical Magic, and unlike Jimmy, we're not going to keep it buried. So beware. Spoilers ahead. So, at the end of the book, Jimmy's spirit is haunting Sally's home, so Sally finally calls the ants for help. When Francis and Jet arrive, they brew up a stinky remedy with lye and lime and pour it over Jimmy's grave in Sally's backyard in the middle of a hurricane. The earth bubbles and everything dissolves, releasing a gray mist followed by a red vapor. Kylie says the vapor is Jimmy, which seems to be confirmed by the smell of beer and boot polish that emanates from the ground. And just like that, Jimmy is really gone. So do you think that the ending of the book is satisfying or is it like a little too neat and tidy?
Speaker: I do not think it was a satisfying ending. ants didn't do a really good job raising Sally and then they swooped in and then they fixed the problem over like just a few pages and and and then they came out as heroes and I didn't like that part, but that's just how I read it. Also just the Jimmy resolution, I think happened a little bit too fast. I was really expecting some kind of like final showdown and it never happened.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, I definitely felt like it was a little too neat and tidy. Um, Like, sure, i think lie is actually used in, like, dissolving bodies, maybe, from, like, the crime shows I've watched. But... So, like, there's something to that. But also, like Yeah, it just all felt a little too convenient. um But I did wonder if maybe the point of the ending of the book is that Sally is finally asking for help, or like maybe just her act of accepting the aunt's help represents an acceptance of her roots. And also, like ultimately, it does take all three generations of Owens women participating in the ritual to get rid of Jimmy.
Speaker: um and I was wondering if that changes how you read it.
Speaker: no cool to be very blunt no not really i mean it was it was just fine i just i was expecting just like a little bit more because this was such like a gentle meandering book and i'm not used to that and i was still just very ready for for like at the end of the movie whenever he's like zombie jimmy Um, and, and doing like a cage fight with Sandra Bullock with all the PTA moms. Like I, I just, I wasn't wanting that, but i was just kind of expecting like a little bit more, just a little bit instead of we brew a Porsche, a potion and then we dump it on the ground and now happily ever after.
Speaker: Yeah. He gone. We're done. End of book. At the end of the movie, for example, Jimmy isn't just haunting the Owens women. He actually, like, possesses Jillian. And Sally tries to save her, but realizes that she needs all of those women. And she uses the PTA phone tree to summon a whole bunch of women across town for an impromptu exorcism type thing. don't know.
Speaker: I don't know, does that work for you as far as like the movie ending goes? like Is that satisfying to you? So, late 90s terrible CGI aside, which I love, when I saw this for the first time, i was actually scared by the possession slash exorcism scene. And to be fair, I was probably like nine when I saw the movie for the first time, but it was absolutely scary to me then. But now, rewatching it as an adult, what like stood out to me is the power of sisterhood. And i definitely feel like the movie resolution to the Jimmy problem was like a bit more satisfying than the book's resolution. There's like a little more drama.
Speaker: And it made sense a little more. it felt a little more earned, I guess. Whereas the book is just kind of like, yeah well, we got to get rid of them somehow. How? called the eight I don't know. I mean, I'm a sucker for cheesy CGI. i like it.
Speaker: I've I've always enjoyed it. It's silly. It's fun. um The ending didn't come as easily in the movie as it did in the book, which I did like. I did think the women of the town coming together to form the coven was a nice idea, but I really didn't believe that that's how it happened.
Speaker: The whole movie, we watched these women not trust Sally and not want her to be in charge of the phone tree. And and they didn't like her. They didn't trust her. I don't know how she was able to like keep a business afloat in that town, to be perfectly honest. i just i I did not believe that they would show up...
Speaker: At their house to to practice witchcraft um when they'd been scared of it for so long. It wasn't believable to me. Yeah, it is a little little hard to believe. I don't know. With the genre movie, though, i but there's some some grace there, in my opinion. i It's...
Speaker: A little give and take is fine. um But that does take me to how the very end of the movie gives us this big happy ending trademark um that the book approaches in and a more subtle way. So like at the very end of the movie, we see the same townspeople who have ostracized the Owens women for literal centuries, generations, for being too witchy. The town gathers on Halloween and they watch three generations of Owens women fly off their rooftop, which makes the townspeople cheer um That was, I mean, it's a cute ending, right? But a little hard to believe. um And then meanwhile, at the very end of the book, we jump forward to Thanksgiving and we see all six Owens women plus Ben and Gary gathering for the holiday, which lands a bit differently than the very end of the movie.
Speaker: And so after spending so much of the book running away from the roots and each other, everyone just like comes home and comes together. Um, considering the very ends, not just the Jimmy resolution, but like which ending works better for you? Like the book subtly bringing the family back together or the movie giving the Owens women acceptance from their community? Oh, the book. I thought the ending of the movie was so cheesy and and not in a way that I can appreciate. like like it's...
Speaker: It reminded me. So every year my neighborhood does this like sensory friendly 4th of July celebration. This is just one complaint of it. And this year, instead of doing drones set to nice music, they just had like a crappy projection of what really amounted to like a windows 95 screensaver on a building and it it sucked. It was so lame. I brought my dogs to look at it. Cause I thought there was going to be drones and Raphael really likes drones. There were no drones. Um, and that's kind of how them jumping off their roof felt to me was it's like everybody drove with their coolers and stuff to watch them slowly float off of their roof for five seconds. It was just lame. i don't know. um
Speaker: that and the cheese factor who's driving for that i don't they didn't even to like fly around they literally floated to the ground gently like a paper bag
Speaker: right does that even take actual magic i don't think i i don't think so like where's the wire Yeah, yeah i I don't like how they fixed the Jimmy situation. i don't like how cheesy the, I mean, I didn't like how they fixed the Jimmy situation in the book specifically. and And I didn't like the cheesy ending at the movie. Yeah, it sounds like we need the drama of the movie's resolution to the Jimmy problem.
Speaker: instead of the books. But then we like the soft, sweet, believable ending that the book gives us where our family's coming home for the holidays and, you know, relationships have been repaired and stuff um more so than the movie's cheesy ending of suddenly now the town is cool with the witches. Yeah.
Speaker: I just, I come from a small town. People aren't like that. And like, I know it's a movie and everything and it doesn't have to be like that kind of realistic because that's not fun. But this was a bit much.
Speaker: It's time to pick those k nits. I'll go first. So Gary planting evidence, aka Jimmy's ring, on an unidentifiable skeleton found in the desert does not seem very honest or justice serving to me personally. And I took issue with that in the book.
Speaker: I was like, come on, Gary, you're supposed to be a good dude. I took issue with it, but I was like... whatever at that point. I didn't like how much the movie changed from the book. And normally, i don't really care about this, and I'm able to separate the two. But it really, really bothered me in this instance. It's like we have two completely different stories. And at first, I wondered if some of the plot points came from different books in the series, like going from book to movie. The Family Curse wasn't a major plot point in Practical Magic, but it's heavily discussed in the Rules of Magic, which... Didn't come out until 2017, so I'm not really sure where the movie came up with that, to be perfectly honest. I haven't read The Rules of Magic.
Speaker: I was reading comments on Reddit and other people were having similar issues with how different the two stories were, but they were a little bit meaner than I'm choosing to be about it.
Speaker: They hated the book. Aw, they hated ah the rules of magic? No, they hated practical magic. Oh. Reddit, like, had their pitchforks. Like, they were like, burn this witch. We hate her.
Speaker: oh my gosh. what Sandra Bullock. That was only on one thread. I didn't dig that deep into it. But still, like, people had opinions. Wow. Yeah. Well, another thing that irked me a little bit was that the movie swapped Kylie and Antonia. So in the book, Antonia is Sally's older, redheaded daughter, while Kylie is the younger, dark-haired sister who Jillian takes to dye her hair blonde for her 13th birthday. But in the movie, Kylie is older and with red hair, while Antonia is younger with dark brown hair. And in the book, Jillian has blonde hair, not red. So I'm just like...
Speaker: so confused by all these hair colors and the changes that they made. And I'm like, why does, why does each generation have to be two women and like, like two sisters? And why does one have to have dark hair and like red hair or, you know, cause they're, I just, they're witches.
Speaker: So witches can't have blonde hair. Is that why Jillian's powers are so weak or whatever? I guess not. ah I personally did not like the portrayal of the ants in the book or the movie. They get off really easily in the book because they fix everything in the end and they say, our bad for for Jillian and Sally's crappy childhood. And in the movie, they're the ones that cast a literal love spell on Sally that leads to her falling in love with her first husband, who then dies because of the curse. they're Allegedly. allegedlyed all like they ah Allegedly. allegedly dies either way they are directly responsible for his death and they don't really catch any flack for it like within the span of a couple of minutes like sandra bullock is all like oh i can't believe you do that and then like not even 10 seconds later she's moving into their house with her two young daughters so she must not have been that angry about it and i like it
Speaker: I didn't like how that was handled. Her young daughter, like, she was not functioning, so. Still. Like, I didn't like it. The depression. I still like it. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. they They need to take a little more responsibility, but, like, I think that they raised Sally and Jillian with love.
Speaker: Just. Sure. not necessarily, like, they were definitely, like, supposed to be child-free, you know? Mm-hmm. So um I did find it amusing that this story has been branded as like a fall cozy read and watch. And while the movie definitely feels autumnal because of the witches and like that's an autumn theme, the book takes place mostly in July and August. So to me, it didn't feel very fall at all. And I was just like...
Speaker: Huh. Why is this? Why is the algorithm saying this is like a cozy fall read when it's not? Maybe they had a like ah a cold snap. All right. It's test time Would you pass the English lit quiz if you only watched the movie?
Speaker: Question one. What type of flower grew from Jimmy's grave? Answer. Lilacs, my favorite flower. In the movie, it was roses. Question two, who killed Jimmy? Answer, fate slash we don't freaking know. um Because in the book, the ants disproved that Jillian killed him because she did not give him enough nightshade to kill him unless he were a chipmunk, is what they said. But then, of course, in the movie, Sally is the one who overdoses him with Belladonna. But to be fair, she was driving at the same time and couldn't exactly pull out like a measuring spoon. So...
Speaker: Question three, final question. How did Jillian and Sally's parents die? Answer, together in a fire. in the movie, their father allegedly dies from the curse and their mother dies of a broken heart. Okay.
Speaker: Em, are you a book nerd or a movie buff? i unfortunately really thought this was the most boring movie I have ever seen. i hated it. I hated the movie. I don't ever want to watch it again. um This was not for me. i was just...
Speaker: catching things left and right that i really didn't. I'm like, why would, why Why is that part of the movie? And I didn't believe any of the characters. I did not like the movie. Yeah. Like I explained the movie in my like yelly voice at Jason and he was like, yep, sounds like it was made in the nineties. And I'm like, how did you know? I really, really didn't like the movie. The book was better than I thought it was going to be.
Speaker: it was delightful. It was very sweet. It wasn't for me. I'm not the target audience for it, but it was it was sweet. I recommended it to people who like this kind of thing. And I'm like, oh, you like the movie? You want something completely different? You should read the book because it's really pleasant and sweet. so I think I heard you say you're a book nerd. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay. I am a movie buff. Honestly, a little shocked that you hated it. We're gonna have to fight in the field after this. It has, you know, it it has, it's problematic because it's from the late 90s or whatever, but like, I don't know. It's probably a nostalgia factor for me. sure. It's my first time reading the book, and I'm not really necessarily the target audience either, but I just have the nostalgia factor for the movie, so. I don't have the nostalgia factor, and I don't think we mentioned it. This was the first time i had ever watched it.
Speaker: I'd never seen it before this. So there was nothing that was going to like paint the way that I feel about this other than experiencing it for the first time at my big age.
Speaker: Your big age. Big age. And it didn't do it for me.
Speaker: Next month, very excited about this. I bought the tickets and I didn't tell Jason what the tickets are for, but we are going to be at the theater on a specific day because our next episode, we will be reading Ursula Wills-Jones' short story, The Wicker Husband, and watching the brand new film adaptation, Wicker.
Speaker: I'm so excited. I'm really excited, too. I also bought tickets, and Adam doesn't know, so it's going to be a surprise for him, too. All our calendar says is date night. Same. Or mine just says movie in capital letters.
Speaker: But the story of the wicker husband and or wicker follows an ostracized fisherwoman who, after being... Unlucky in Love commissions the local basket maker to make her a husband out of wicker. Read this story. It's online. Watch the movie and join us Thursday, November 19th to talk about love, marriage, and apparently basket weaving.
Speaker: Thank you for listening to book club, the movie, the podcast. Watch for new episodes out the third Thursday of each month. You can find us on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen, follow us on Instagram and Tik TOK at book club, the movie.
Speaker: You can also find us on Patreon, Facebook, or on our website, book club, the movie.com. This podcast was created and produced by Jen Moyer and M Lord. Our music and mixing is by Jason Lord of studio Topaz.
Speaker: Voice acted by Ethan Gallardo. And we just want to give a big thank you to our friends and family for your love and support. And thank you, dear listener, for joining our book club.
Speaker: See you next time, nerds. And buffs. Bye. Bye.
Speaker: Okay, so I was at the River Pretty Writers Retreat over the weekend and I was hosting this like, right now we're calling it the intentional writing circle, but I also kind of like the idea of calling it like a writer support group or something like that. So we all just like sat around in and a circle and I read this little thing about like, here's what we're doing here. And it's all, you can think of it in a mystical spiritual way, or you can think about it in a support group way. And it's very clinical. Whatever works for you is fine. And we all sit around together and and we write for 20 minutes and like kind of discuss in a few words per person, like a couple sentences, like what you're working on to like help you get focused and to get your writing count up for the weekend in whatever way that means for you. And it was during the second round of that. And I heard whispering and somebody was like, is that a cat? Is that a cat? And we turned around to the river behind us and there was a woman in a kayak with a big black cat at the front of the kayak. And we're like, what?
Speaker: That can't be a real cat. I think it's a real cat. That's not a real cat. It's not a real cat. It wasn't a real cat. And we're like, okay, well, that's weird. What a weird thing for somebody to do by themselves on the river. And then another kayak came by and they also had a big fake cat sitting at the front of their kayak. It gets weirder. And then another person showed up and they had a broom and they had a witch's hat on and a fake cat. There are people with inflatable cats, like just a whole bunch of witches, just like ah a kayak coven coming down the river. And so we we were done with the writer's circle at that point because we're like, okay, well, Em and a few other people want to go down down the river. Me and Kristen was there. We're going to go down and we're going to say hi and see what what's the deal with this. And as it turns out, it's like a once a year thing that they do. They didn't say how many years in a row because I had never seen them before. But like in October, they all dress up like witches and they get drunk and and they ride on kayaks doing like the six hour trip down the North Fork.
Speaker: And apparently at the beginning of their float trip, they all had way more to their costumes, but the sun came out and got hot. So they all got kind of naked. Yeah. It was great. ah They invited us to join them next year, but I didn't get any contact information. So I'm not sure. show up Just show up. octoberber Yeah. Just just in case the coven is there. Like, I just know that they're they're waiting for me.
