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Repentance & Baptism with John Welnick (Charistmatic Calvinist)
90 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, John Welnick (Charismatic Calvinist) walk through Matthew Chapter 3 to unpack what repentance and baptism really is.
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Transcript
John the Baptist: Birth and Cultural Context
00:00:06
Speaker
So let's just dive in right from the beginning. um Let's talk about who is John. John the Baptist. Tell me sure me about him. Let's go for it. So yeah John the Baptist, um he it's interesting his life. ah He kind of gets his own his own backstory. right he has his own His own lore. And his his birth is miraculous. His birth is...
00:00:31
Speaker
It's fantastic. And it's, it's, it's Holy Spirit, you know, given, um, yeah it's, it's almost kind of mirrors the, the birth of, or the, the conception of Isaac with Abraham and Sarah. and You know, it starts with his father's a priest, uh, um, and, you know, angel visits him and says, Hey, your wife's going to bear a child. And he sees it's this is interesting. It's like it's happening while he's in, uh, what's called the Holy of Holies. Um, and I believe I could be wrong here. This is just what I was always taught growing up was that they would tie a rope around the priest.
00:01:00
Speaker
when he would go in to offer syp worship or whatever in case he died, and then they could drag his body out because you were in the literal presence of God. So if there was anything unclean, anything, I mean, I'm sure if you even had ah an unclean thought in that moment, it would just be, you know,
00:01:16
Speaker
instant death, and then you have to pull your body out.
Origins and Symbolism of Baptism
00:01:19
Speaker
The bells stop moving, which signifies that they died. Yeah, exactly. So it's crazy. So he's in here offering worship and all that, and the angel visits him and his wife's super old. So it's very, very similar to the story of Abraham and Sarah. And the response, thankfully, was a little different.
00:01:36
Speaker
um So you know your't your wife's going to have have a child, his wife's super old. He's like, ah I don't think that's going to happen. And then so he's he's mute. god God takes his voice until the birth of the child. um And it's interesting. It says when he came out, they could tell. I think I should have i should have bad prep on my part. I should have reread this passage in particular. But I believe it says when he comes out,
00:02:00
Speaker
He like motioned through hand signals to to communicate he'd received a prophecy. and world like Okay, that's going on. And it's it's so interesting, I think, as a brief aside, the culture that they were in, where it's totally normal, oh, this guy this guy got a prophecy. Oh, cool, right on.
00:02:17
Speaker
Like yeah it's like, okay, like that was something you could communicate non-verbally is that I saw an angel in the God of prophecy. It's like, okay, this is, they had this expected culture of of, you know, you go into God's presence,
Role of John in Baptism and Repentance
00:02:28
Speaker
God talks to you. That's just kind of cool. yeah So anyways, you know, his wife gets pregnant, has the kid, kid comes out and she's like, we're going to name him John. And all of the relatives were like,
00:02:38
Speaker
You don't have any Johns in your family. And keep in mind, this is a day and age where you know you don't name your kid like Paisley or Navey or Jim Quay or whatever. ah you know you don't All the the Nashville ah yeah yaheville moms. Exactly. yeah you know there There were no wide-brimmed Stetsons on white chicks with their orange cardigans. With their Ashley's. Yeah, Ashley with the G-H. right um Just like cursing your child to have to correct everyone's spelling for the rest of their life.
00:03:06
Speaker
oh and Not throwing shade if someone's an Ashley, but hey. Yeah, I just want to say sorry, Ashley. Yeah. um So anyways, and she's like, no, we're naming him John and family is like, what? Cause you would always name your children. They're basically after their father or cousin or uncle's always the family.
00:03:22
Speaker
And that tradition actually has lasted in a lot of cultures. So she needs to have her name on him, John, and and everyone's like, so they all they all look at at her husband, at John's dad, and they're like, are you sure about this? And he writes on a tablet, his name is John. And it's kind of this beautiful moment of this recognition that this is from God. like i'm yeah So like kind of it started with a little bit of doubting God, and then the kid comes out, and he's like, nope, nope. This is it. This is it. Yeah. And then he gets his voice back, because he he obviously he God gives him his voice back. So ah we don't really have a lot, kind of like Jesus of his of his formative years, his childbirth, his his upbringing, all that. We kind of fast forward now to ah where he's in the wilderness and it says, it's ah he fulfills the prophecy that's given in Isaiah of this prophetic voice calling out in the wilderness, preparing the way, I think it's like the New King James says like the highways for our Lord or something. I grew up on New King James, so a lot of my memory verses are like, yeah
00:04:19
Speaker
in the New King James. So anyways, so he's he's crying out in the wilderness and and he's baptizing people and his message is, you know, repent. The kingdom of heaven is near.
Modern and Historical Context of Repentance
00:04:30
Speaker
That's verse two.
00:04:31
Speaker
ah ye Now, this is interesting. so like I don't want to fast forward here, but like you good people talk about like you know where does baptism come from? you know Did John the Baptist like invent baptism? And he didn't, because the the the process of ritual washing is as old as Leviticus, where the priests would would go into a pool and wash themselves. And it was part of the the rituals of ascent as you were coming to the temple to offer your sacrifice. There'd be like the songs of ascent that you would sing. It's in Psalms.
00:05:00
Speaker
And part of that was a ritual washing. So this idea that there is a kind of like a symbolic bath that that cleanses you of your sins, that's a very old ah thing. It's not a new thing. John didn't invent that. um It's just when we first start calling it baptism, where you are washed for the forgiveness and the cleansing of your sins. So that's kind of where we meet, where we meet John and we meet him as, well, we don't meet him, but we re-meet John as he's baptizing people and Jesus meets him and and Jesus is going to get baptized.
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah. Well, what's interesting about John the Baptist real quick is his backstories in Luke one and and not in Matthew. Um, if I'm correct, I believe the X I believe that's correct. Yeah.
00:05:41
Speaker
Yep. Cause it's just a wise man flight to Egypt, Herod kills the children, return to Nazareth. And then it's John the Baptist. He's here. Yeah. And so I hopped over to Luke one as you were, you were chatting and you nailed it. Good job. You know your Bible. I want to serve me well. What'd he go on it? I grew up Mormon. I was memorizing heresies. So it's fine. There you go. Um, different podcasts, different day. Um, yeah. So John the Baptist, he,
00:06:08
Speaker
I love a couple of things about him, his his fulfillment of prophecy with Isaiah, and the message that he was sent to say, prepare the way of the Lord.
00:06:19
Speaker
like His entire purpose was not about him, as we know later on when we read more about him. But his entire purpose was to literally be a voice of the wilderness, to prepare the way for the Lord's coming.
Repentance and Cultural Individualism
00:06:35
Speaker
And I love this so much, I got a tattooed on me. I have old English tattoo on me, prepare the way for the Lord. And where's the where's a new hip place to put it? Right above your knees. So, it's pretty cool.
00:06:48
Speaker
um anyway so he he introduces this word repentance he says repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand um I know I have way more of a mixed bag of upbringing as far as um, church background, if you will. ah Um, but my first kind of introduction with the word repents was downtown somewhere with someone at the sign that said repent or perish. Right. And people just yelling angry through this megaphone. Right. And so it's funny that my first introduction to the word repent was in that context. And the more people that I talked to, the more people, um,
00:07:37
Speaker
I would say outside of the church or new Christians, they don't really like the word repent because they have the same connotation, right? So um what do you think are some of the baggage I share a little bit that people have with the word repent?
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so especially in our kind of postmodern Jesus culture, you know, where Jesus just loves you you and he, so people say all the time, you know, you know, God loves you and accepts you just the way you are. And it's like, well, yes and no, like he, God loves you and you can come into, you know, ah repent or I don't want to use the word of the definition. So,
00:08:18
Speaker
well let's' let's say something Calvinist here, right? It's like, ah you're so, not you, you know, you objectively, us before we meet Jesus, we're so ugly. that we you know we killed God, our sin killed God. or Jesus went to the cross for what we did. So like God doesn't love that. ah he He died for that. So he accepts you ah not ah because of the way you are, but in spite of the way you are. So you you are accepted with your sin nature, but it's immediately reject it's immediately gone. So repentance is this idea. ah you know The words in Greek is metanoia. menoia I didn't go to college, um but it's basically, it's two words, it's a compound word, meta, which means, I believe it means turn, and then noi, which means think, or maybe I got those backwards, but the the literal translation is to basically change your mind, right? yeah And in our postmodern culture, nobody wants to change their mind. Nobody wants to be told they're wrong.
00:09:17
Speaker
um it's it's it's very it's you know It's very difficult to change somebody's mind nowadays. So if you come up to them, it's crazy. So when you come up to somebody and say, hey, what you're doing is wrong. You need to change your mind. The way you're thinking is wrong. You need to change your mind. ah It's very offensive. And we don't want that kind of Jesus. We want a Jesus that loves us the way we are. It doesn't ask us to change.
00:09:38
Speaker
Because again, when Jesus loves us, he's not loving us because of who
Cultural Christianity and Authentic Discipleship
00:09:41
Speaker
we are. He's loving us in spite of who we are. So it's not when we sit, we have to be careful when we say God accepts us the way we are. Because like, yeah, but he demands that we change. Jesus says that, you know, be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect. Like, that's the standard perfection. It's nuts. yeah and People like hearing that. So Jesus said the well, speaking to the woman, he says, you know, ah go forth and sin no more. Like, yeah, you're forgiven, but stop sinning.
00:10:05
Speaker
And yeah people don't wanna hear that second half. They want the love and the acceptance and the, and the, the you're amazing, you're beautiful, you're a snowflake. They don't want the, hey, you've gotta change, man. yeah And I think that the the church hurt and the trauma and the bag, I should say traumas, it's an abused word, but the the the misuse of this is when people, especially and you know church leadership will misuse that and they'll say, hey, you need to start kind of micromanaging their congregants' lives. And what they'll start doing is, is as Landon McDonald will say, they'll moralize their preferences.
00:10:37
Speaker
And we talked, we talked before we went on the air here about like some churches will, you know, say you can't wear shorts unless you're doing sports or something, or like the the old school Pentecostals will see women can't cut their hair or crazy stuff like that. And what you're doing is like, that's your personal theological preference. It's not a close handed primary doctrine.
00:10:56
Speaker
But you're moralizing that, and you're saying that this is good. when it say what i What I mean by when i say moralize is there are, like in in the old laws, right the old covenant laws, there's there's civil laws.
00:11:09
Speaker
ah There are ceremonial laws and there's moral laws. And I will get into the details because it's it's too, you know, I don't want to be distracting here. Just just take Landon's course on Leviticus and Theosia. It's great. yeah Yeah. And the idea is essentially that moral laws are things that never change. When God says don't kill, don't murder people, that's a moral law. That will never change. It's always wrong to to murder people. yeah When God says don't cut your sideburns, that's not a moral law. There's nothing wrong. Or don't mix two fabrics. Yeah. that's not a more There's nothing morally right or wrong about mixing fabrics. That was given to the certain people at a certain time for a certain reason. um yeah So anyways, all that being said is when people take ah their preferences and they start moralizing them and adding them to the moral law and telling people, hey, you got to repent for your your shorts. I mean, I've got some pretty some pretty pasty skin, man. So that that could be applicable to me.
00:12:00
Speaker
But yeah other people, no, it's not a sin to wear shorts. And you can't tell somebody to repent of that. So perhaps, I don't know if that's where you're going with it, but perhaps there's a lot of misuse of of telling people, hey, you've got to repent for something. But I think naturally there's a pride in not wanting to be told you're thinking the wrong way. You need to change.
00:12:18
Speaker
Yeah, I would, I would definitely echo everything you said. And I think a big thing I see as well as the cultural conversation is your truth is your truth and your, your belief is your belief and no one can tell you that you're wrong. Yeah. And so when that gets, when we try to bring the word repentance into that cultural climate or thought that we've been told that we need, that the way that you are is okay. Yeah.
00:12:46
Speaker
um It's subjective. awesome Exactly. And then all of a sudden, if I'm okay and Jesus loves me the way that I am, then all of a sudden, I don't need to change the
Objective Truth and Repentance
00:12:58
Speaker
way that I am. Right. And I think for me, that's a piece um where I see it's a conflict of following Jesus more now than ever yeah is when people are confronted, they meet the grace of God that he is so good and so faithful and so loving to he who became, ah he who knew no sin became sin so that we could become the righteousness of God, right? I see that I'm like, yes, thank you God for that. It's that whole savior and Lord conversation. yeah I love Jesus's savior. I don't like him as Lord. yeah And I don't know if people would say it that clearly, but I think
00:13:41
Speaker
There's a kick to that, if I'm being honest, even in my heart at times too. Probably more often than I'd like to admit. right But the reality is repentance is being faced with that there is, he said, the kingdom of heaven's at hand. So why am I repenting? Not because I'm bad or just because I should. It's because I'm in the presence of something greater that demands my repentance.
00:14:01
Speaker
ye Yeah, and I think that's that that motivator is far greater than you're just doing bad things. Yeah, well, you'll see a lot of like cultural not as many as I think he probably once did and in the unit know in the United States, but you still see a lot of cultural Christians, especially within like conservatism.
00:14:19
Speaker
um political conservatism, you'll you'll see these people who call themselves Christians and you you know you go to like a Trump rally and there's all these people and they all say, you know, oh, I love Jesus. and you so So what I would I go for with those folks, whatever I interact with them is, okay, you know, would you say Jesus is your Lord? And I'm like, of course Jesus is my Lord and savior. I'm like, okay, how does he exercise lordship over your life? and that And that question usually gets people to kind of like, what does that even mean? Like lordship is your Lord.
00:14:46
Speaker
okay Think, what does that word mean? you know Back to like the medieval times, your Lord, you're you know the master of the house, the the landlord, whatever. you know How does the exercise lordship, which is authority, which is superiority, how does the exercise out of your life, what does that look like in your life? Well, it should look like he tells you to do something and you do it. And if you don't, he's not your Lord.
00:15:07
Speaker
Yeah. Oh yeah. And Jesus, he makes this a ah a line in the sand when we like to make it great. If you love me, you'll what? You'll keep my commandments. Yeah. And it's not like if you love me, then you'll philosophize. I'll think about your commandments. I'll oh preach about your commandments. I'll talk about them, but it's you'll keep them. You'll obey them. yeah And so I think that's a piece that absolutely um flies in the face of of the current climate in the in the Christian world. And I also think that another thing that repentance attacks us in a good way is the pride of like individualism.
00:15:51
Speaker
like I am me and there's no one else like me and I think the way that I think and what repentance doesn't do though is strip you of how you the uniqueness that God has made you. right That's not what it's doing. But repentance will strip you of individualism that I'm my own person, right that I have my own thoughts and then my my way is right and my truth is right right. Because if there's only one truth and there's only one way as Jesus claims then Either he's right or I'm right and there's no yeah, well, I mean it says in John, you know John one is that you know The word is truth. um The word is logos, right? um And it's it's this idea of I've mentioned subject subjectivism ah but ah the kind of the
00:16:36
Speaker
the antonym of that is objectivism, which is this idea that there is an objective truth. And the truth is that which corresponds to reality, which is correspondence theory, but but not to get into the weeds here, but Jesus is the objective truth. The word, the logos is the objective truth. And like you've mentioned, everyone wants to live their own truth now when you say, no, there's one objective truth, there's not multiple objective truths. you know I got into this three times. We'll mention Landa now on one podcast. I got into this Landa last week um because I said on his podcast that there was, I don't think that beauty is subjective. I think beauty is objective. I think there is a a root standard somewhere that runs under the ground that we all point to, okay, that's the standard of beauty. And then, you know, the further you deviate from that, the less beautiful things become. yeah Because this is what God's established. He's established truth all over the world. And when we start saying, no, it's in the eye of the beholder or it's subjective, it seems like, oh, you know, it's just, you know,
00:17:38
Speaker
What's the big deal, man? I like this music. You like that music. But when it gets down to it, it's this pervasive idea of of individualism and and this destructive subjectivity where all of a sudden we can start declaring things as truth that are not truth. And it's dangerous. ah yes God did not create you know He created us with individual peculiarities, but he did not create us as individuals in the sense that, look at what Paul talks about with the church. He says that we're multiple members of one body and that yeah the hand can't say to the head, I don't need
Living a Life of Continual Repentance
00:18:10
Speaker
you. So this isn't like an individualistic kind of thing. this is we all We're all part of one body. ah yeah But all that being said is that the the importance is understanding that there is an objective truth, the truth corresponds to reality, and there's no such thing as your own truth. There might be your own experience
00:18:27
Speaker
Hey, there it is. There might be your own. And I'll give you that. So when people are, we talked about, you know, the goofy, or I mentioned how trauma is like an abused word. um I don't ever want to say like, I look at a video where, you know, ah you know,
00:18:43
Speaker
Well, let me let me put it this way. you you We make fun of like Gen Z and and you know how everything's trauma to them. And I don't want to downplay that they might have experienced something that felt traumatic. They might have experienced something that affected them emotionally in a significant way. But the thing is, because we're all in the subjective world now, what might be traumatic for one person is like the death of a loved one. But another person might feel that same level of trauma when they're Favorite TV show gets canceled or when an author writes off their favorite character in a book. And yeah what's crazy is that because we've allowed ourselves into the subjectivity, we've lost our minds. Everything is just senseless now. And you've got these people crying over these things that they shouldn't be crying over. They are calling their pets kids and things like that. So I don't want to get on a rant here, but it all it can be traced back to this loss of an objective baseline that we all have to operate from and return to.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yes, which is repentance. And that's why I love, we said, there's and there is an objective truth. like There is a standard for what it is. And that's where I think this word repentance comes from. Because when we meet that capital T objective truth, all the truths that we have created, or I love how you said, truth versus experience. Your experience may be what you're calling truth, but it's actually not truth at all. yeah And so when we meet that objective truth, that is Jesus, the kingdom of heaven that is at hand, the response should be repentance, a returning yeah back to that objective truth. And anything in my life that is out of alignment of that objective truth is the things that I need to repent and return back to him.
00:20:23
Speaker
Yeah. you know And to land the plane back on your initial question, you know, what's the baggage with this? The problem is when people experience things, the the validity, the the visceralness, if that's a word, the the the tangibility of your experience does not correspond with its validity.
00:20:43
Speaker
So just because something feels intense or feels really real does not necessarily correspond to its validity. Because like I mentioned, yeah some people will ah receive the news of the death of a pet the same way that others will receive the news at the death of of a loved one.
00:20:58
Speaker
And so, just because they're both feeling it to the same extent does not mean they are both validly traumatic experiences. So, back again, back to the question, when you tell somebody, hey, what you're doing is incorrect, you need to change your mind, it might feel like you're to them like you're hitting a brick wall. Like, no, this is... yeah concrete truth for me. This is concrete evidence for me. There's nothing wrong with sleeping with as many people as I want or with you know living this lifestyle. And that's as real to them as as the sky is blue. And that's why there's this repulsion, right? Because because the it says the you know the enemy of the world has, or rather the ah the the prince of this world has has clouded their eyes, has clouded their judgment. They can't see the truth. They're physically unable until God removes the scales from their eyes.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, dude, you hit on something that is ah so good. And I think this is some of the issue that we run into with the word repent is um people kick back at it because they've built their entire life off of something that is not the truth. And so when that foundation for everything that they've built their security on is starting to get poked at and exposed for what it is, it creates a natural reaction, fight or flight, right? yeah So whenever I talk to LDS,
00:22:17
Speaker
missionaries or different things like that. Like people like, why are they so defensive? I'm like, cause it makes sense. Their entire life is built off of everything they've been told through seminary and the ceiling rituals and the baptism of the dead. Like yeah all of these things is what they've built their life on. So for me to come and simply say, you're wrong. Look at all these different reasons why you're wrong. I'm like, I'm not surprised that they kicked back. You're saying your entire epistemology is false.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yes. It's cardboard. It's a lie. and Yeah. and and This is why it's like, so how does this look like for like the everyday life of the believer? ah like Make this
Consequences of Ignoring Repentance
00:22:51
Speaker
practical, right? Instead of had these heady philosophical terms, what does this look like practically? It's Oswald Chambers. He wrote an amazing devotional. He didn't write the devotional, but it was a list of his thoughts were compiled into this devotional called Myos for His Highest. I read it this morning. Oh, I would recommend it for yeah every believing Christian, it's a tremendous blessing every single day. And it's very convicting. It's a roast every single day. It is. Just prepare. It's yeah it's so convicting. And so I'll say this, i'm not I didn't coin this phrase, but it's been said before, is that the the most miserable person in the world is the disobedient, unrepentant Christian, because they've been given a new heart, they've been given the Holy Spirit, and they're they're operating in ways that are contrary to their nature, their new nature. So the problem with this is,
00:23:35
Speaker
the the longer you disobey, and I'll loop this background with Oswald Chambers in a second, the longer you disobey, the more miserable you become, the more, you know, sin is missing the mark, the more off the mark you become, and the harder it is to get back to it, because you've just you've started you started with yourself on this new life path that's contrary to God, and it's contrary to your nature and your spirit. And the longer you do that, eventually the Holy Spirit stops convicting you. It says, you know, you can smother the spirit, you can suppress the spirit. So There'll be that hardcore, like, hey, you're doing the wrong, the conviction, and eventually it's going to go away. But that doesn't that doesn't mean that what you're doing is okay. It just means you know the Holy Spirit stopped bothering. um Yes. And where so this, you talk about like Mormons in the LDS ah cult is that
00:24:21
Speaker
they are so off the mark. To get them back onto the mark requires an entire fundamental life change. like Imagine a guy who owns like a porn website. like You're asking him to give up his entire livelihood. or We see this actually realistically with like ah only fans, ah girls who who who recently that one chick got saved, I can't remember her name, um but she gets saved. and okay Now you've got to like, what do you do for a living now?
00:24:44
Speaker
like how do you pay your your mortgage? So it's yeah it's a fundamental shift and it's gonna break everything in your world. So Oswald Chambers talks about in in many of his his devotions is listen for that. Like if you stop feeling the spirit, if you stop feeling the anointing, you have to go back to the last thing God told you to do that you didn't do. yep Go all the way back however long ago that was. If it's years, go back to that because you're not going to progress any further past that point and And you might not even feel it. And this has happened in my life. or Like I don't feel the conviction for something because I've just ignored it for so long. I have to go back. Oh man, I made a decision years ago that I was going to be okay with this thing. And that was sinful. And and i've I've shipwrecked that growth and that part of my life because I haven't gone back and repented for that. And the longer you maintain that,
00:25:30
Speaker
the more life patterns, the more practical things you're going to establish in your life that will make it far more difficult to change. Imagine if you get into a homosexual marriage and you adopt a kid with your homosexual partner. Think of all these things, how difficult it would be to return to a Christ. Undo all of that. Undo all of that. And then collateral from it as well. Oh, man, how do you undo all that? Because now you have a child that you're responsible for. How do you undo this in a Christ-like way?
00:25:58
Speaker
ah i don't I don't know the answer to that, and that's why I'm not a pastor, um because that's that's a problem for you to figure out. um But it's that it all got it it's already figured out yeah good but it all it all starts with this tiny deviation and this tiny, you're not going to repent for this. I'm not. No, no, no, no. And you talk yourself out of it. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. And then eventually you're so far off target, of course, that it's just catastrophic to fix the thing.
John the Baptist's Confrontational Role
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah. And this reminds me of Samson and Delilah, right? Yeah. So he we kept disobeying. And the one, man, this this story, I think about it probably every day, multiple times a day. And it said that Samson was unaware that the Lord had left him. Yeah. He was unaware. Yeah. Because he was in so much, oh my gosh, he was in so much disobedience.
00:26:48
Speaker
just repeated disobedience and unrepentance that eventually, like you said, like he was unaware, like the Lord has left. like He's like, if you're not gonna respond, i mean ah I'm gonna, and I'm trying to be careful with my my next line here, but like if you're gonna be unresponsive, I'm gonna sit here and wait for you to respond to the one thing I've called you to repent of. And that line, I think about every day. I'm like, oh, Lord, please don't do that. yeah but And so that's why repentance is so beautiful though.
00:27:18
Speaker
That's why it's such a gift from God. It is like the most uncomfortable gift he's given us yeah is what it feels like for me personally. ye And so let's, okay, we've we spent solid 20 minutes on the baggage yeah of the word repent. How is it used here? Why is this John's message? Why is he sharing this and what is the importance of the word repent?
00:27:42
Speaker
I mean, think it's it's we see the importance of it when, is it the Sadducees or the Pharisees approach him? I think it's a little bit of both. Yeah. So the the religious, the and I don't use that word religious because pharisees an justes yeahag I hate it when people disparage you know religious people, like there's something wrong with being religious, but the religious leaders um there we go of of the time approach him. And ah this is where, you know, one of my favorite lines of scripture, she calls them a brood of snakes or a brood of vipers. So, you know, shout out all the you know lovely Christian mothers who are like, you know, you shouldn't be mean to people. You should be nice.
00:28:19
Speaker
It's like, well, John just calls them, he basically insults them. He calls them a name. and And he draws it back to Genesis, right? Yeah. I was reading a commentary about draws it back to just like you are being of Satan. Yeah. Well, because the whole idea is you're in a queue, you're an accuser, you're you're a confronter.
00:28:34
Speaker
And that's what the word Satan means. it's It's Satan. It doesn't actually mean devil or demon. In fact, Jesus is referred to as Satan in the Old Testament when he confronts Balaam because he's an accuser. He's he's confronting somebody. So yeah Satan, and this is like, the I think the grand scheme of God's irony is he doesn't actually allow Satan's real name to make it into scripture. So we don't actually know what, it's not Lucifer that just means morning star. We don't know what Satan's name is. So yeah They're coming as this the the Pharisees, notes as as as his accusers, as his confronters. And ah John calls them a name really for no other reason than to insult them. and Because he could have communicated that thought in any other kinder, gentler, softer way. And you just he just insults them. ah So there is a time and a place for righteous insults. And I don't want to mean to give license. Righteous anger. and You've got to be careful because you don't want to give license to people to just be jerks to everyone.
00:29:23
Speaker
I listen to this podcast and these people said I can be mean whenever I want. Pastor said I can drop F bombs. like no don' it's It's righteous. It's righteous anger. If your heart is, who can I insult today? that's ah You've already disqualified yourself from being righteous.
00:29:39
Speaker
But there is there is a time when you know there's a righteous anger to have against certain things or certain people, abortionists, you can have a righteous anger against them and call them names because they're evil and you're confronting these. Anyways, so John calls them a brood of snakes, brood of vipers. And that's the kind of idea is um you see this recurring theme over and over and over in the gospels is Jesus talking about how he's showing up to a people who don't recognize him. He's showing up to people who don't know who he is. And you see it actually a lot in Luke, and I can't remember, I was just reading Luke, I should have a Bible with me, terrible theologian.
00:30:12
Speaker
But I was reading in Luke yesterday, Jesus, all these parables about, you know, people showing up for the party and nobody's there. He's like, I called out. And and and so there this idea that, you know, the gospel is for the Jew first and Jesus is showing up and the Jewish people, they don't see him, they don't recognize him. And he said, Jesus says over and over again, you killed your prophets. Stephen, the martyr says you killed your prophets. I've sent you people and you just kill them. Oh, this is what it was. It was Jesus saying it was the the parable of Lazarus and Father Abraham.
00:30:41
Speaker
And, uh, when he was like, let me just dip like yeah the tip of my tongue and like for relief. Exactly. So Lazarus is different Lazarus. Uh, he's in hell and he's begging father Abraham to save him. And Abraham was like, bro, like, even if I wanted to, I couldn't like, there's a chasm here that I can't cross over and you can't cross over. So he says, well, at least send somebody to my five brothers so that they may see the truth and Abraham's in the parable. He says this, he says,
00:31:04
Speaker
even if somebody were to raise from the dead and go tell them they wouldn't believe. and I've read that my whole life and not understood the the obvious symbolism there. Jesus is is foretelling, I'm going to raise from the dead and you're still not going to get it. yeah and he There's this this constant frustration Jesus has throughout his ministry. He'll even express this like angrily at times, like, oh my God, like how many times do I have to tell this to you people and read it? I still don't understand. Yeah. Which is why I would encourage people to read the gospels in the NLT translation, um, because it it communicates, I think more effectively some of that modern language that you might miss if you're reading like the NASB or something.
00:31:44
Speaker
But Jesus is pissed, and he's like, dude, oh my like truly, oh my God, like how many times do I have to say this? like he At one point he even expresses, like God, like when can I just be done with this? These idiots, they don't get it. So Jesus is frustrated, and John's frustrated, and he's saying, repent and and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins. And he sees these Pharisees and these Sadducees coming, and he's like, you guys are the problem. As as you know, these prophecies are better than anyone, and you're not gonna understand that when you when you see it.
00:32:12
Speaker
Yeah. And so, jesus John is essentially, he's got one foot in the Old Testament, one foot in the New Testament, yeah and he is that bridge, he is that herald of
Symbolism of Jesus's Baptism
00:32:23
Speaker
what's to come. So, he's the prophet, before Jesus, he's the last you know capital P prophet. yeah And if you don't count God himself, he is the last prophet John is.
00:32:33
Speaker
ah So that's that's how he's kind of the bridge from the old to the new, because the Old Testament is all about prophets bringing the word of the Lord. There is one single messenger. There's all these messengers. And John is like the last one saying, hey, I'm the last prophet. I'm saying there's one coming after me who's greater, who's, you know, shoopstrapped. I'm not even worthy to to and um to loosen. And he is that bringing these two, these two ah testaments, covenants together. yeah And then Jesus comes who's prophet, priest and king. And, and you know, we all know that.
00:33:00
Speaker
um But yeah, I forgot, even forgot the question, I think it was how repentance is being used. How is it being used here? Yeah, it was telling people that, hey, there's somebody coming, and he's gonna bring a word, and you better be ready to receive it. John probably didn't know, fortunately Jesus did know, that most of them wouldn't receive it, which is why gospel was later opened to the Gentiles, because the Jews, most of them didn't want it. They didn't see it, they didn't recognize it.
00:33:30
Speaker
Yeah, and he even eludes to that in verse nine, says, ah you do not presume to say to yourself, we have Abraham as our father. Yeah. Like they're that's not gonna save you yeah they're heavily relying on their Jewish tradition and and their father Abraham. Yeah.
00:33:46
Speaker
um And it's interesting, he says, even now the acts of God's judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. The root. And that's where Paul alludes to this the same kind of imagery, a lot of branches and trees. And the idea being that being you know like the root of Jesse, right? Being part of this Abrahamic tree, ah God has given a promise to the ethnic Jewish people that he threw Abraham, that they will be saved and they'll be resurrected.
00:34:16
Speaker
um And then, you know, the the the the apostles come along and say, hey, guess what, guys? So like, you're cut off. um You are natural born pulses, you're natural born branches of this Abrahamic tree, but this acts of judgment has come and has cut you off because of your unbelief.
00:34:34
Speaker
yeah So it's it's it's a word of caution, I think, to Gentiles to realize that we are not the natural born branches. We are grafted on. Grafted in Romans. Yeah. And that God, it says in Romans 11, God's actually far more willing to graft back on ethnic Jewish branches than he is to ah to graft on a Gentile branch. So there is some kind of preference God has for the ethnic Jewish people, but not to the point where they'll get some super salvation outside of Christ.
00:35:02
Speaker
And so John warns them of that, like you just said in verse nine, he says, don't yeah rest on your laurels here thinking, I'm fine. I'm from Abraham. That's like, no, that's God's going to cut you off if you don't yeah you know get baptized in belief.
00:35:14
Speaker
Yeah. Woo. Yeah. And I think that's, he's, he's being a, um, very confrontational where I was reading, um, kind of commentary on this as I was prepping, uh, the commentary goes, I love profits, but they're probably uncomfortable people to have at your house. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're just like, they're that's, that's the purpose of them is, yeah is to declare.
00:35:38
Speaker
where like the coming judgment of God is to repent and to come back. It's like, hey hey Ezekiel, we use propane now, bro. we don't What are you doing? yeah you You don't need dung. ah So good. um But yeah, so that's that's that's good. It's being used here, especially for that. I love just the callback.
00:35:59
Speaker
um it's it's recognizing like I said a little while ago that the kingdom of heaven is at hand so it's not just the kingdom of heaven it will seem just second the king himself is at hand yeah and being in the presence of the king being a part of this new kingdom so in the first episode I spent little time talking about, uh, you on gelly on the gospel and how the one of the first markings of that term was actually a nine BC about, uh, Augusta Caesar, about his, him being born, that there's a new King and a new kingdom where someone so significant was born that all calendars need to sink to that. Yes. And you're much more of a history nerd. So if I got it wrong, my bad, but, um,
00:36:51
Speaker
So when when they showed up with the gospel of of Jesus, when they say there's the gospel, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, it's a declaring to the people around that there's a new king and there's a new kingdom. right And not only is there dick are they declaring that there's a new king who is Jesus and a new kingdom, the kingdom of heaven, what's happening is now our lives must require repentance to be a part of that new kingdom with this new king. Right. Right.
Theological Perspectives on Baptism
00:37:22
Speaker
Yeah. And that's where it's, it's you know, we'll get into some of the goofballs who are a little weird about like workspace salvation and kind of some of the the problematic ah customs and beliefs that have risen from the Reformation.
00:37:34
Speaker
is that we go so too far down the sola fide, the faith alone. So for the layman here, sola fide is basically one of the the solas of the Reformation, one of the the calling ah cries, the kind of the themes of the Reformation, which is that salvation is and is is by faith alone.
00:37:51
Speaker
ah And the problem with that is, yes, it's good to say that your good works don't save you. But when we go too far down this rabbit trail logically, we turn into what's called, like I mentioned earlier, free grace theology, where you don't need to do anything.
00:38:08
Speaker
to to so but there's There's a cult called the Independent Fundamental Baptists, and they are some wacky people. They're the ones who are yelling at you for reading anything besides the King James Version, um and they will go crazy on this idea of, they'll call it once saved, always saved. It's basically like a kindergartner's version of perseverance.
00:38:31
Speaker
and And they'll they'll get really mad at people who say, but they'll go as far as even saying that the sinner's prayer is demonic because it's a work. And to say, if you have to tell somebody that that ah you must say the sinner's prayer to be saved, well, then you're working for your salvation in some way. And I don't think the sinner's prayer is even a ah biblical thing, but to say that you can't even ask God for repentance because that's a that's a work.
00:38:56
Speaker
and That's a little crazy and this idea of once saved, always saved. So Calvinists believe that in the doctrines of perseverance, which is that ah God's children, the sheep will persevere in their faith to till the end. They will not fall away and they might have a prodigal season, but they won't they won't fall away.
00:39:12
Speaker
And like I said, that the really double digit IQ version of that is once saved, always saved, which is this idea that once God saves you, literally nothing you can ever do will lose your salvation. And I'm like, in theory, I agree with that. But the the baptist the the IFB, the Independent Fundamental Baptist, which is a cult, they will use that to basically say that, you know, you can say a sinner's prayer or whatever their version of that is, and then go, you know, shoot a heroin. And that's fine because you're good. you're You already made the list. You are A-OK.
00:39:42
Speaker
And it's this this this soup. So back to to the point here is that repentance is a necessary component of salvation. And that if you just write that off and say, no, no, no, it's just faith. Well, hold on. How do you have how do you justify your faith by by repenting, by doing good? How do you show your faith to be true? ja James has something to say about that. Exactly. And so this is the idea. So Catholics, will will they love James. And Luther hates James. And it's all just a misunderstanding of James.
Baptism in Salvation and Symbolism
00:40:10
Speaker
Because you know you you'll read these two passages and it's very confusing if if if you don't really kind of know the context here. Paul says that you know faith ah is is not by works, it's just by faith. And that's where reformers get sola fide. But then James comes along and says that ah faith apart from works is dead. And that yeah he says that you actually James says that you actually justify your faith with works, so that seems like it completely directly contradicts Paul. Like, hold on, wait a minute. Paul literally said almost verbatim the opposite of what James is saying, but then you have to understand, okay, what are they both trying to teach? Paul is saying, he's talking soteriologically, which is so a fancy word that means ah that basically the study of how do people get safe. Paul is trying to explain to people their salvation, and he's saying, your salvation, the the the regeneration of your soul, of your of your nature, that's not based on your works.
00:41:02
Speaker
ah yeah Justify, when Paul uses it, is used in a salvific sense. It's saying, how am I made right with God? Because God has wrath. God hates me right now. How do I go from being hated by God to being a friend of God? And that is the justification Paul is talking about. When James uses the word justify, it's a completely different meaning of the word.
00:41:21
Speaker
yeah James is saying, how do you show your faith that it's real, that it's true? For example, when I get pulled over by a cop because I'm speeding, I justify the fact that I'm a licensed driver by producing a driver's license. I am justifying my ah my legal driving status. You are showing it to be true. I'm not making myself right with the cop. I still get a speeding ticket. I can't make that right by showing him that, but I can justify the fact that I am a driver. So... yes It's two different uses of the word justify and people will get confused because it's just translated the same way as justify. So you justify your faith with your repentance. You show that your faith is real. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that leads perfectly into like this next question is how do we live a life of continued repentance? Because um if repentance is the outworking of a justified life,
00:42:17
Speaker
then how do you live a life of continued repentance? Yeah. Well, that's kind of to bring Oswald Chambers up again. He talks about this all the time. It's like just returning to what was the last thing God told me to do? Am I doing it? What was the last thing God told me to do? Am I doing it? And this is where like, you know, the Pentecostals will get it right because they're always about being in tune with the spirit and and and listening to the spirit. Ultra calls for days. Yeah. And it's like, am I good? Am I okay? And yeah this can get too far into the, I forget there's there's a word for it where you're basically afraid of your sin, afraid of hell. And Luther was like this.
00:42:50
Speaker
ah Gosh, what's there's a word for this. I can't remember what the word is, ah but it's basically constantly being afraid that something's wrong. and and Like insecure in your salvation. Yeah. There's there's actually a ah ah smart person word for it. i just It escapes me because I'm not smart. Not as you said, a double digit IQ version. Did that killed me? Yeah. No, but there is there's an ology word for this. and i can't Yeah, but like I guess I'm not a smart person. So this is why I can't remember, but I always edited in post. There you go. Um, yeah but basically, uh, uh, afraid that you're always doing something wrong. It's this anxiety that you're always separated from God in some way. And that's what Luther had before he, you know, reformed was this fear of, of like, I'm doing something wrong. So we don't want to go too far down that rabbit trail and understand that like we are in, I found it. Oh, it's a group. superocla Yeah, group velocity.
00:43:41
Speaker
That's good. Thanks, Google. Yeah. Screw velocity, this fear of of like something's always wrong. And i've I've had that not as much recently. That's been a ah big journey for me over the last five years as is being terrified that like like, is there something in me that I need to, like, am I instant right now?
00:43:59
Speaker
Is this anxiety or is this just, ah or or is this conviction? And that's a very hard thing to determine. Is this anxiety or is this conviction? And I hear people say, and they're well intentioned, but they'll say, you know you know, if it's guilt, it's demonic. Like, well, no, because guilt is a consequence of sin and God chastises those that he loves. If I yeah get drunk and I run somebody over with the car and kill them, I want to feel pretty darn guilty about that.
00:44:25
Speaker
And that's not demonic yeah and yeah justice. yeah So we don't, I don't like it when people say like, you know, guilt is demonic. Conviction is the Holy Spirit. Like no guilt can come from from the Holy Spirit too. He's part of conviction. oh yeah To use Paul's words, there's difference between worldly sorrow and godly sorrow. One leads to repentance, one leads to death. Exactly. Yeah, so you have to be careful like what is this, you know, what is this guilt or this conviction leading me to do and I think it's when it when it's a hopeless anxiety, and I think the Holy Spirit will usually bring to mind exactly what needs to change. yeah Unless you're suffering sorrow from just I did something bad and I feel bad.
00:45:02
Speaker
that's That's the consequences, buddy. Sorry, feel bad. But if if it's something that you are currently doing that you haven't repented of, I think the Holy Spirit's always going to tell you exactly what needs to change because yeah John 17, 17 sanctify them in the truth. Like the Holy Spirit's job is to sanctify us. So he will always point out what needs to change.
00:45:22
Speaker
yeah Again, unless on yeah so go no no on that, John 16, Jesus telling the purpose of why he's sending the Holy Spirit. yeah Three things, to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.
00:45:37
Speaker
yeah You know, so at our church, our first value as a true Pentecostal church is intimate pursuit of the Holy Spirit. However, um where that comes from is John 16, not Acts 2. Yeah, that's good. And so, I'm kind of stealing a little bit of my thunder from my sermon this Sunday, but this will come out after that sermon, so it's fine.
00:45:58
Speaker
see That's right, that's right. But it's it's the reality of that, an intimate pursuit of the Holy Spirit, if it does not lead us into the truth, it does not lead to conviction of our sin, the righteousness of God and the judgment that he cast on the world and the brokenness, we are not intimately pursuing the Spirit. yeah we cannot The gifts are good.
00:46:20
Speaker
Yeah, great. But what good is the gift if you are unrepentant of sin? right what good is this so what What good is gentleness of the fruit of the Spirit if there is not a conviction of the righteousness of God? yeah Like at the base level,
00:46:36
Speaker
ah Intimate pursuit of the Holy Spirit is the conviction of your sin. yeah It is the repentance and understand that righteousness comes from Jesus, not from myself. Thirdly, that the things that I hold onto in this world are righteously judged by God. yeah And from those, we experience the fruit of the Spirit. From those, we experience a continuation of the gifts of God, if he so chooses. yeah Okay, i'm I'm preaching right now, this is my bad. But that's just such a big thing for me is like,
00:47:06
Speaker
Man, if you are truly pursuing the Holy Spirit and truly pursuing God, then the conviction is comes with the territory. Yeah. And conviction um that leads to repentance is what God has for everybody. And if I resist repentance, then what am I even doing? Yeah. Well, it's like that old... I don't know if you were if you were Mormon when this song came out or not, but it was it's called like Refiner's Fire. I think it's like an old school hill song. song Yeah. Refiner's Fire in my heart's one desire is to be holy. Yes.
00:47:36
Speaker
That's when I came to know the Lord. That was 2007. I was 18 years old. Yeah. And and and so we we pray that, we sing that, like, you know, refine me, God, you be the refiner's fire, but then we don't like it when it comes. It's like, oh, hold on, it's getting hot in here. Like, yeah that's that's the freaking point, dude. Yeah. so it Be careful with, you know, I've heard people call them dangerous prayers. Just like, be careful yeah because you got to mind answering your prayer. so Yeah. And I think those dangerous prayers is like the the, if I could sum up church planting for me is like,
00:48:05
Speaker
God shaped me into who I need to be to see this through. it Oh crap, it sucks. It sucks. But it's so good because it's like, what's the other option? Just a casual approach to Christianity? see my my like My personal prayer is a it's a lot less dangerous. i'm just like I always pray that God just prevent me from screwing up what you have planned.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's it. I mean, that's good. I don't know. I think that's pretty dangerous too. Just different words. I'm just like, don't let me be a bonehead. You're like, turn me into something great. I'm like, just don't let me be an idiot. I don't care if I'm great or not. Yeah. Well, and I think that's, that's the piece, man. And like, there's no way to experience. Uh, I don't know if I want to make it that exclusive, but maybe let's do it. Yeah. There's no way to experience the fullness that Christ has apart from repentance. Yeah. That's true. No way. I don't think that's, I don't, I think that's a safe statement to make.
00:48:58
Speaker
Yeah. That's sanctification. Yeah. And I, and I think my fear is, uh, fear is maybe too strong a word, but a, a weight that I feel, I think for pastoring and I think for myself and my family and, and yeah, like raising two girls is like, bro, how do I.
00:49:26
Speaker
can from Sorry about that. oh You're good. Um, but how do I, how do I help people understand
Historical Significance of Baptism
00:49:35
Speaker
that it's repentance and living this life of constantly and everything before the Lord is like, is worth it. Yeah. And not only is it worth it, but he's worth more than the casual approach. Yeah. That's yeah.
00:49:57
Speaker
That's because you mentioned daughters. That's just like the trigger word. That was it. yeah oh like goes like a ho dead for Yeah. But it's like, that's my biggest like weight in my hope that like, I, I pray that people understand what this like repentance is the most beautiful gift from God yeah because that means I get to become more like him and less like me. And that's a good thing. Yeah. That's a good thing.
00:50:21
Speaker
yeah yeah well we're at 57 minutes so let's keep cruising yeah um any last thoughts on repentance before we go to jesus's baptism and talking about that yeah i think we covered it cool and then some uh jesus's baptism This is always a fun question. Why did Jesus get baptized? He had nothing to repent of. Yeah, and that's where i'veve a tough question. um And I had to do a little research because off the top of my head, i I'm glad you you you sent me that in advance. because i Yeah, like this morning. yeah
00:50:54
Speaker
So I'm like, wait a minute. like I don't know if I have a good answer for that. um yeah And I found it it was is from a Ligonier. It's a great bible teaching Bible study resource. And I loved this. I've never heard this in my life. So this was a blessing that I got to learn this this morning.
00:51:09
Speaker
As I said, ah the water that John was baptizing in was being ah ritually defiled over and over and over again with people's sins. People would come to him. They would sin. The sin, you know, ritually enters the water and and leaves the person. So when Jesus comes in, he's a pure vessel. So his sin isn't coming into the water. He's entering defiled water and being covered in it.
00:51:32
Speaker
o And I was like, holy, what a belief sound here. I was like, holy, that blew my mind. And I was, okay, so it was, well, for starters, it's he's he's setting an example. yeah There's all the easy answers. He's setting an example for believers. He's showing that he's in it with us, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The the the the ah real answer, the deeper answer here.
00:51:54
Speaker
as he's foreshadowing the cross, is that when he gets in and he is covered, had to tell, submerged in the water, he is being submerged in the sins of the people and covered in them, which is what he's going to do on the cross.
00:52:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah and that's and that's everything that I've i've read as well because I've always been like, one ah there's not one thing Jesus asked us to do that he did not do himself. One thing that I was reading and i I'll sum it up but not as eloquent as the commenters that I read was that he, it was essentially what you were saying is mimicking what he is mimics a poor word. He's foreshadowing, if you will, what his entire life is going to be about. Yeah. And especially with
00:52:44
Speaker
the sim um how Matthew wrote the gospel as a Jew to Jews yeah and how Jesus's life is mirroring the journey of the Israelites yeah and how he they went through the Red Sea he is entering into baptism and he's about to go into the wilderness for 40 days as the Israelites went into the wilderness for 40 years And so there's so many aspects, and I think this is the part of why I want to create this hunger ah for people in our church, because our second value is biblical literacy. And that's part of the reason why we teach the way that we do, yeah is that, oh, like this is a cute little gospel. No, this Matthew's doing something very strategic here.
00:53:29
Speaker
but In the middle of Matthew, he mirrors the five books of the Torah. like yeah He's doing things on purpose here. Anyway, so to go back to why did Jesus get baptized, I think it's it's more than just, like I said, yes, it's an observation, but also it's foreshadowing um what he's going to do for all of mankind in the future. Right. so That's good.
00:53:55
Speaker
Um, this is going to be a fun one. Let's keep this like maybe five to eight minutes. What is, and what isn't baptism? Oh, so you prep. That's not fair. Okay. Let's, let's do 10. We're already in it. Let's keep going. So this is an, and you know where I'm at on this. I'll, I'll explain it a little bit is.
00:54:15
Speaker
If you were to ask your average evangelical Christian, and by evangelical, I mean somebody who's not Catholic, who's also not like Presbyterian or Lutheran or Anglican, ah kind of you know your average non-denominational Christian, or we call them Baptists with a cool website. um If you were to ask one of those people, okay, what is baptism? We'll say, well, it's like a public declaration that I'm ah i'm faith in Jesus. It's like, yes, like, is that it? Like, well, yeah, yeah, it's public declaration. And they don't,
00:54:45
Speaker
they don't see it as anything more than that. It's just a public declaration. Okay, well, is that how scripture talks about baptism? Does Jesus at any point say, be baptized for the public declaration of your faith?
00:54:58
Speaker
Well, let's look, let's go to the scripture and briefly I'll go through a few of these, some verses referencing baptism. Mark 16, 16, whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. John 3, 5, Jesus answered, verily I tell you, no one can answer the kingdom of God unless they are born of water, baptism, and of the spirit, which is regeneration. Acts 2, 38, Peter replied, repent and be baptized.
00:55:26
Speaker
in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins. And then you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. um Acts 19, Paul, ah who is Saul at the time, persecuting Christians, when the scales fall from his eyes, the very first thing he does is he goes and he gets baptized. says yeah Scales fell, he could see again, he got up and was baptized. like First thing he did, baptized.
00:55:46
Speaker
yeah um Galatians 3.27, it says that to be clothed in Christ, which is the identity of the believer, you that happens to you when you are baptized. Galatians 3.27, for all of you who are baptized into Christ, have clothed yourselves with Christ. It's a necessary prerequisite. And then lastly, 1 Peter 3.21, the strongest language, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also. Not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience towards God.
00:56:17
Speaker
It saves you, baptism, it
Historical Debates on Baptism
00:56:19
Speaker
saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So there's ah there's a little bit in 1 Peter talking about like a public declaration that says it's a pledge of a clear conscience, but it says very, very point blank, it saves you by the resurrection of Jesus. And this is where you'll get into the whole debate with people of does baptism save or not?
00:56:40
Speaker
So what it's not though is merely and simply a public declaration of faith. There's more to it than that. It's way deeper than that. ah so Let's go back, if I may briefly, to a couple of the church fathers. So this is kind of the Calvin, or not the Calvinists, the Catholic and Protestant debate. Catholics think baptism saves you. Protestants are like, no, it doesn't save you. Like, hold on. What has the church always taught on this? And I'll go so far back in history here. I'm not even talking about like the Catholic church in the 13th century. Let's go all the way back to like the OGs of the OGs. So there's this guidance. Justin Martyr, St. Justin Martyr. So his last name is Martyr, because we don't know his last name, but he was Martyr. Justin studied, he was a contemporary of a guy named Polycarp. Polycarp is nuts, because Polycarp studied under John.
00:57:34
Speaker
So Polycarp knew the Apostle John himself, like yeah they were buddies. And Polycarp goes on and he's a contemporary of Justin. So Justin is like one generation away from John and like two generations away from Jesus himself. So this is yeah super early church. This is not the the you know Roman Catholic popes and bishops and cardinals. This is as always- I've been diving so deep into the early church fathers like that. And it's been,
00:58:03
Speaker
Wonderful to say the least. It's messing me up. And I love it. And so this is what Justin taught. He he had a work called the Apology or Apologies or something. I can't remember the name of it. But he says, ah they are brought by us, talking about new believers. They are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. Speaking of baptism. So he Justin Martyr says, this is the way we've been doing it.
00:58:27
Speaker
like this is the way we were rejected This is the way we were saved just through baptism. And then Irenaeus of Lyon, who brought the the gospel to what we now know as France. um Again, this is like second, third century. This is ancient stuff. Irenaeus says, as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean by the means of sacred water and the invocation of the Lord from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babies. So,
00:58:54
Speaker
the gospel excuse me the The Bible seems to say that baptism is is is hand in hand with salvation and regeneration. And we can clearly see from all the writings of the earliest church fathers that that's how they received the gospels. before we even had Justin Martyr, he's writing before we even have a Bible. like the The canon of scripture has not even been assembled yet. And he's already saying, like this is what we're all doing, guys. In the church, we're all baptized we're all getting baptized for the regeneration, for the forgiveness of our sins.
00:59:22
Speaker
so yeah When we say that, what I say personally, that baptism saves someone, what I don't mean is that baptism, the the ceremony, went and died on the cross for the forgiveness of your sins. Jesus did that. However, Jesus, how does Jesus communicate this salvation to the believer? Because we talked about, well is it a sinner's prayer? No, the sinner's prayer is not in scripture. So it's not a sinner's prayer.
00:59:45
Speaker
yeah you know your average, that that might be kind of your your evangelical sacrament of of how you get saved is through the sinner's prayer. The correct yeah answer is through baptism. Baptism is the washing of your sins off of your body. And and the renewal, you come up, you are reborn out of the water. it's ah It's a judgment of water. So I believe it's ah 1 Peter 3, I think that's where Peter's talking about the flood. no ah yeah Noah, and he's saying that the world was baptized and the sin was removed. That was the whole point of the flood was God was cleansing the earth from its sin. Awakeness, yeah. And we go through that same judgment of water, that same cleansing of water through baptism. The church, not the proto Catholics, before we were ever Catholics as we know it now, has always believed
01:00:32
Speaker
forever, that baptism is the way we receive salvation. Not that it saves us, but actually, as Peter says himself, it saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So the resurrection is still what has the salvific power, but we receive that through baptism.
01:00:49
Speaker
now yeah we don't vehicle if you will it's the vehicle it's that vessel and if god wants to if you want to hand your friend a coffee you don't just you know put the coffee in your hands you put it in a cup and you hand it and that vessel is what contains the coffee so like when you say hey hand me that coffee I'm not like reaching into the mug and like pulling out the coffee. I'm handing you the mug. You're like, hold on. You handed me the mug. You didn't hand me the coffee. like no you And the mug isn't what has caffeine. and It's the coffee. Correct. But when you say hand me the coffee, I'm going to hand you the mug because that, as you understand, is what contains the coffee. So summarizing here. Brilliant analogy.
01:01:27
Speaker
Yeah, actually I just came up with that on the spot. Thank you. Here it is. the The church, the Christian church never had this understanding that we have now or baptism is just this ceremony that didn't exist until the Reformation because then this guy comes along in the Reformation called Zwingli and Zwingli is a humanist. Humanists were like early, what we would know that now as is like Gnostics or philosophers or yeah rationalists.
01:01:56
Speaker
Now Zwingli, to be fair, I think was filled with the Holy Spirit, ah but he was a humanist like Erasmus. he He wanted to be rational. He wanted to explain everything. He didn't like the magical components of Christianity. He wanted to make everything explicable, and he was a product of the Renaissance.
01:02:13
Speaker
which the Renaissance in itself was kind of in some ways like a proto so-called enlightenment. um So anyways, Zwingli comes along and he says that you know the Eucharist isn't really Christ's ah presence in any way. It's just a ceremony. There's nothing there. And baptism isn't actually what saves you. There's no self if at grace. It's literally, it's just a ceremony.
01:02:34
Speaker
And then a group called the Anabaptists came along, and the Anabaptists were your first credo-baptists. So the Anabaptists taught that if you were baptized as a baby, that wasn't efficacious and you need to be re-baptized once you have ah a statement of faith, a profession of faith. Now, I would agree with that.
01:02:51
Speaker
Except the Anabaptists curiously and strangely also removed the salvific grace from baptism. So it's like, hold on. Wait a minute. If you don't believe baptism contains any salvific grace, why do you need to be rebaptized? Because if it's if it's just a ceremony, then the baby thing was fine.
01:03:09
Speaker
so that's that One step forward, two steps back. Exactly. It's like, I get where you're going with that, but then why did you add that bit? Because that doesn't make any sense. So Zwingli and the Anabaptists who are unrelated, but the Zwingli and the Anabaptists were the first people in the history of the world to ever introduce this idea that baptism does not contain self-ethic grace. Luther didn't believe that. Martin Luther, the great Protestant reformer, believed wholeheartedly that baptism contains salvific grace. So when you hear somebody say, a Catholic perhaps, or a Lutheran say that baptism saves you, what they don't mean is that, again, baptism went to the cross and died for your sins. What they mean is that Jesus's grace, Jesus's resurrection is communicated to you through baptism. So in the same way that as evangelicals, we have always thought of the sinner's prayer, just kind of use that same category and put baptism in that category. that you say this prayer and be safe. Well, hold on. Be baptized. That's how that works. And if that helps to kind of reframe the whole perspective on baptism. Yeah. And you see in scripture that baptism is
01:04:13
Speaker
I don't know if this is the right word, but within the process of of salvation. Like it's not, it's not a, I'll get around to it. It's not a option. It's not a, oh, you believe, oh, that's good. I love you reference acts too. And that's one of my favorites. And that's something that I think of often is they said, brothers, what shall we do?
01:04:40
Speaker
Like not only are they cut to the heart by the gospel of Jesus, it says repent and be baptized every one of you. yeah Like it's not repent and then get baptized when you have time. It's like they're, they're holding hands. yeah They're as close as they can get without, you know what I mean? So I like the way the the West, you kind of reminded me of this. So the Westminster confession of 1646, which is a Protestant, um,
01:05:07
Speaker
essentially, as the Westminster Confessions, it's like a systematic theology. It's like, here's here's what we believe. So yeah in in the chapter on baptism, I love the way they put it. I don't completely agree with it, but it kind of communicates what you're trying to say. It's chapter, Roman numerals here, chapter 28. Anyway, it's just Google Westminster Confessions, baptism, you'll find it. Section five, it says, although it is a great sin to condemn or neglect this ordinance, yet grace and salvation are so, excuse me,
01:05:36
Speaker
So whatever, yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it as that no person can be regenerated or saved without it or that and all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated. So it's very kind of confusing language. You have to read it if you're not ah an audible listener, but essentially what it's trying to say is that um grace and salvation are so closely intertwined with it that no one can be regenerated or saved without it. But on the other hand, you also just can't say that, oh, I've been baptized, so I'm saved. So they've ah they've the church is even Protestants. We've understood forever that that grace and and and salvation are very, very, very closely intertwined with baptism. Now,
01:06:20
Speaker
to do the Puritan thing here and and kind of preempt the critics, ah many will say, well, what about the thief on the cross? He wasn't baptized. Interestingly enough, this is not a historical explanation, but church tradition has always taught, well, not always, but it's popularly taught that when Jesus' side was pierced and the blood and water came pouring out, that the thief on the cross was actually sprayed by some of this water and, in effect, supernaturally baptized, which is wild. And I actually love that. I think that's beautiful. But I don't think, for for all for the sake of this, I don't think the thief on the cross was baptized with water. I don't think he was baptized at all. And this is where ah we will go back to what the church has always taught, which is this this this phrase, ah God is bigger than the sacraments, but we are not.
01:07:04
Speaker
So if God says do something, that means we've got to do it. But God's bigger than that, and he can do whatever he wants. Short of violating the moral law, which God cannot do because he's he's not immoral. um yeah He can do whatever he wants. He can save whomever he wants. And the Catholic Church has has great teaching on this in that they will say, if you get saved, profession of faith, and you schedule your baptism, but let's say you die in a car accident on the way there, You're not going to hell because God sees the intention and the desire of your heart. is a Hold on, up yeah they were trying to do the right thing. I give them grace for that. um yeah it's there's There's a difference between that though and not having any desire or intention to get baptized. Paul, very first thing he did, let me go get baptized. I got to do this immediately.
Wrap-up on Baptism's Role
01:07:50
Speaker
Now, if if Paul slash Saul had died on the way to that baptism, for whatever reason, he would be saved, of course, because his desire and his intention was there. So yeah we need to not make ah a rule out of the exceptions. So yeah, the thief on the cross, he got a miraculous supernatural exception through his repentance and through the grace of Jesus. But we don't go and make a rule out of that. We don't go say, well, now none of us have to get baptized because scripture does not teach that scripture commands us to get baptized.
01:08:16
Speaker
It overwhelmingly teaches the opposite. Overwhelmingly. So that the thief on the cross is an example of God's amazing grace that God can work however he wants. It's not the standard. Because what does the thief on the cross also do? He did his own thing until the last minute of his life. So if his yeah if if he is an example to us for baptism, then is he an example to us for lifestyle? Should we all just live our own crazy lawless lives and then just repent on our deathbed? Like, no, of course not. So why are we using him as an example for baptism, but not for the rest of his life? You can't pick and choose.
01:08:49
Speaker
Let's just end the podcast there. That was good. Amen. Yeah. I love that. And I think, uh, yeah, I think that was a really helpful explanation because people will buck at this a lot. Like baptism saves. If you say that people will oh yeah will lose their mind. Um, you and I and both know in the meme world, I make memes about it all the time just because to see how people get upset and not upset. I think it's more like, do people actually know why they believe what they do? Yeah.
01:09:18
Speaker
And what I'm discovering more and more and just creates a bigger burden for my heart is like a lot of people mimic their beliefs. They don't know why they believe what they believe.
Understanding Beliefs on Repentance and Baptism
01:09:26
Speaker
Yeah. And so even part of stuff like this, um, uh, why we're walking through Matthew three and talking about repentance and, and baptism and spending an hour and a half on a podcast on these two things is because I want people to be equipped to, to know why they believe what they do, yeah to be challenged, to think about those specific things as well.
Historical Roots of Evangelical Beliefs
01:09:48
Speaker
And understanding where their beliefs come from is a huge thing, because if you understand, yeah why are like most evangelical churches yeah believe the things they do? It's like, well, yeah, most of them came from the Baptists. That's why we say you know most non-denominational churches are just Baptists with a cool website, because this is our theological history. Most of us used to be Baptists. If you go to your church's history back far enough, that's why you don't think baptism saves you. That's why you don't think the Eucharist means anything. but Yes. Yes. And amen. That is good.
Gratitude for Speaker's Insights
01:10:16
Speaker
Um, well, thank you, John. Um, we spent a significant time, like I said, breaking down repentance and baptism. Appreciate you for your time. Um, and always follow John for a good time on social media. It's wild, but it is good and is informative. And I love the prophet style voice that you have. You even said that by yourself. You're like, even have a couple of times in this, you're like, I'm not the pastor. That's your job. Yeah. But you are a prophet through and through. You feel that that call and conviction from God to help people see who Jesus really is and call people to that life. And so you're doing an incredible job, man. Appreciate that. I appreciate you.
Closing Remarks
01:10:52
Speaker
Yeah, I appreciate you taking your time with us and helping us unpack Matthew chapter three on repentance and baptism. Thanks, man. Thank you.