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Steve Dunn, Part 2: Waves of change in instrumental music, Getting involved in your church
479 Plays5 days ago
Steve Dunn serves as Associate Professor of Music at the University of Mobile where he also serves as Chair of the Music Department and Director of Instrumental Studies.
University of Mobile, Alabama School of the Arts: https://asota.umobile.edu/
Steve's Website: https://sdunnmusic.com/
Church Orchestra Music: https://www.churchorchestramusic.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Opening: Praise through Music
00:00:00
Speaker
Praise the Lord! Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet. Praise Him with the lupin harp. Praise Him with timbrel and dance.
00:00:11
Speaker
Praise Him with st string instruments and flutes. Praise Him with loud cymbals. Praise Him with clashing cymbals. Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
00:00:24
Speaker
Praise the Lord!
00:00:27
Speaker
Welcome
Introduction to Luton Heart Podcast
00:00:28
Speaker
back to the Luton Heart Podcast and the continuation of our conversation with Steve Dunn. Let's jump back into it.
Evolution of Church Instrumental Music
00:00:36
Speaker
How would you kind of describe some of the the changes to the instrumental music scene that you've seen throughout, you know, kind of the beginning of your career up until this point and how instruments work in church and function? What is your takeaway? Obviously, I think a lot of people have their own experiences seeing in this, but from your view, what what are the changes looked like over the years?
00:00:55
Speaker
Oh, I was,
Steve Dunn's Musical Journey
00:00:57
Speaker
um it was interesting when I was in high school, which back in the 70s, was the era when church instrumental music really began to take off.
00:01:09
Speaker
And that was about the same time that Camp Kirkland became the first person ever to be a full-time staff member at a church doing instrumental music.
00:01:20
Speaker
It was, you know early 70s. So about the same time that I was in high school. So I was kind of there and I got to meet him. Our churches did some things together. And so I kind of got to know him ah little bit at that point in time.
Trends in Southern Baptist Church Music
00:01:34
Speaker
and And I kind of, as I was getting into college, I felt like, you know, my dream position would be to be in a large church where I was doing instrumental music, primarily doing some core stuff, too, because I love that. But So I got to kind of get in on the front front end of that a little bit.
00:01:52
Speaker
know, I went to my first Metro Instrumental Directors Conference in, oh gosh, was it 1986, maybe, something along those lines, which is probably only about the fifth, sixth, one of those things. There were like 20 of us around the table, I think, you know, in those days. Some of the old heroes who helped start this thing.
00:02:13
Speaker
And so that was a day when, you know, everything was being written by hand. A big part of my job at the time, worship pastor the church in Albuquerque hired me because he he really wanted to build the instrumental program. But you had to be able to write music in those days because there was still so much music.
00:02:31
Speaker
choral stuff that didn't have orchestration. And so you were, i was writing constantly, orchestrating music constantly. And then you, course, began to see more and more publishers that are publishing orchestrations along.
Shift to Self-Publishing
00:02:43
Speaker
i think probably in the 90s, maybe mid to late 90s, we really kind of hit the peak of that as far as the growth. You know, there was a season in the 80s going into the 90s when the largest area of ministry growth in Baptist churches, Southern Baptist churches, was in music. That was the fastest growing ministry area.
00:03:04
Speaker
And within music ministry, instrumental music was the fastest growing aspect of that. And the 90s was when things really began began to really see the cultural shift and the and the the worship wars, you know, really...
00:03:18
Speaker
kind of were at their height. And so that was when things we kind of began to shift into the 2000s as we got into
Resurgence in Choirs and Instrumental Music
00:03:26
Speaker
those. you know i I went from publishing half a dozen instrumental pieces a year with publishers, just not stuff that I was submitting, but I was just getting called. you know I knew I was going writing three or four church orchestra pieces and some small ensemble pieces, and then I was going to be orchestrating three or four more pieces a year for different publishers at at their request.
00:03:47
Speaker
And then it just stopped, you know, mid-2000s. You had publishers that began ceasing to print new instrumental stuff because the sales weren't justifying it.
00:04:00
Speaker
Of course, then they started having publishers and distributors going out of business because choral music was really going by the wayside. And so many churches where were doing away with choirs.
00:04:12
Speaker
And if you're doing away with choirs, you you probably have already done away with an instrumental
Digital Accessibility and Musical Gifts
00:04:17
Speaker
group, you know orchestra. right And so you had you know some of those hangers-on. was at churches that have hangers-on.
00:04:23
Speaker
And I think what's been interesting is, you know, you got to the point now things have changed in terms of the self-publishing thing became the outlet for a lot of access. And that's been kind of an interesting development because in many ways, there's probably as much or more new instrumental music available as there has ever been that you can, that you can get right now because, you know, you don't, you don't have to, you know, i had camp became a camp Kirkland became sort of a,
00:04:53
Speaker
I'm certainly a mentor, but but became a real proponent of mine and gave me opportunities, opened some doors that I was able to jump through. And then I got to the point where, you know, now publishers are calling me wanting to do stuff or whatever, you know, that kind of farm system, if you will, or whatever it is, is gone. And so, you know, there were a lot of people that they just couldn't quite break in or didn't quite have the, some of the the doors that I had open for them.
Advice for Musicians with Limited Opportunities
00:05:17
Speaker
But now they can. And so you've got sites like churchorchestramusic.com where you can go now and you can look at music from dozens and dozens of different writers, from names that you know really, really well to names that you've have never heard, who are just, they're putting out some really good stuff and worthy stuff. And so in some ways, as far as access to music, there's probably never been better. And you now have some of the music from those older catalogs, you know, LifeWay, Zenovox, that published so much for so long, you can still access that music. And Brentwood Benson, that published a lot of music. And littleness you know some of those catalogs have become more available. So
00:06:00
Speaker
From a music standpoint, it might have never been better, you know, what you can find. And i think that we're seeing a ah bit of a, we've been seeing a renaissance of choirs a little bit, you know, over the last, you know dozen years or more churches that have decided, you know, we're we're going to add ah a worship choir and then maybe that choir does a little bit more whatever.
00:06:22
Speaker
And you're starting to see churches that are adding instrumental stuff. I don't know that it will be back to what it was in the 80s or 90s, but there are opportunities. And I i know in the this Mobile area,
00:06:38
Speaker
You know, I can I can point to, you half a dozen churches that at least that have good opportunities ongoing week to week. And they're perhaps
Diverse Worship Styles and Historical Challenges
00:06:47
Speaker
more than that. But those are the ones that I know of for sure, where people can play instruments if they want to in a worship service. So.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yeah, you know so it's it looks different. And I think there are some places that would be open to it if they had the leadership to do it, but but they don't, and they're not necessarily actively looking looking for it. But if someone came along, I think there would be some churches be like, you know, what hey if you you want to do this, sure, let's do this. Even if it's once a month, you know, you have some folks play or whatever.
00:07:16
Speaker
So the the opportunities are are out there after kind of the nuclear devastation from 15, 20 years ago. you know We're seeing some opportunities and some growth in some of those areas.
00:07:29
Speaker
From a a minimal amount of study of church music history ah that I've done, i learned quite a long time ago not to to panic too greatly over over any trends because some some things seem like maybe modern conversations and things that we are fighting about right now. But as as you look past over the years and years and years of the churches existing,
00:07:51
Speaker
these These fights have been around. these are These arguments of going from music is too complex, we need to make it simpler to do less things, do less things, and then we need to make it grander and do more things. And and and this instrument is unholy and this instrument is holy. and right i mean These things have they have hundreds and thousands of years.
00:08:11
Speaker
ah The same instrument, exactly. So even thousands of years. Oh, yeah. Organ was the devil's instrument
Hope for Future Church Music Trends
00:08:18
Speaker
for so long. And now it's, you know, it's if you're a real church in some places, that's the that's the most sacred of all.
00:08:24
Speaker
Yeah. service I'm on the younger side of some of the Metro instrumental directors, you know, within that conference. I'm on the younger side these things. I have some yet lesser years under my belt. So I don't ever want to diminish the feelings that some people have.
00:08:43
Speaker
They've struggled. They've been hurt. They've lost a lot of things over the past several decades. So I don't want to diminish that. But i yeah, lost jobs, lost positions, lost relationships. Yeah. um So I don't want to ever
Encouragement for Church Instrumentalists
00:08:55
Speaker
diminish any of that. But I also, i appreciate some of the things that you've you've pointed out. I do think there is there is some amount of hope that we can see for some some trends to be you know different. Like you said, we may not ever be back to exactly what something looks like. i mean, history.
00:09:11
Speaker
repeats itself, but not generally exactly the same way. right I also think the internet has, ah wow, there are so many challenging things that come with the internet for our society. There are many advantages too. And a lot of instruments through social media and some other things, I can think of um ah at least one oboe player. He's a young guy studying at Juilliard right now who has millions of followers on TikTok.
00:09:33
Speaker
And he does oboe content. I mean, and he's not being followed by millions of oboe players. And there are people that are getting exposed to sounds and instruments and other things that may, you know, be bringing awareness and openness, I think, to some things that we may not even and and knowledge about things that we may not even be thinking about that more young people can. maybe more open to some ideas. So I'm hopeful about ah about about that. But also i am aware of, again, where several people feel and not only leadership, but people who are members of churches who were active in certain ministries and those ministries were gone and then how leaving them feeling a lot of mixed emotions, probably where this is the place where they're connected and they have family, maybe they got married, but also
00:10:18
Speaker
ah ministry that meant a lot for them is is no longer there.
Unique Opportunities to Serve in Church
00:10:21
Speaker
And so wanted take a couple minutes now and and ask you to speak to maybe a couple types of people who may be listening to this episode.
00:10:30
Speaker
One, let's there's somebody who plays an instrument, who's instrumentalist of some kind, um and there is opportunity within their church to to be involved, but that is not a step they've they've taken. Maybe there's a small instrumental group or an orchestra or something they play, but they've they have decided for any various reasons that that's not something that they have done yet. But what made you say to encourage them to maybe make that a part of their life and their ministry?
00:10:55
Speaker
When we moved to family down to to this area and had this first time in my life, you know, I'm i'm in my fifties and now for the first time in my um life, I'm looking for a church to attend because every church I've ever attended in my life was where I was hired, you know? So, um,
00:11:14
Speaker
I never had this experience. And so, you know, we had a couple of kids at home and had them involved. in But one of the things i was looking for was where can where can I serve? Where can I be involved in some way?
00:11:25
Speaker
And the most obvious way as far as the things I had to give, which maybe was not the right approach, but was music. Like I have some things, but there were certain churches where I think they're doing great stuff, but I would not have any opportunity to be involved there.
00:11:41
Speaker
But the idea that if God gives you gives you some gifts and some things, he wants you to use those. He doesn't give us gifts to keep them. He gives us gifts so that we can give them. And so if you're in a place where there is an opportunity to do that, prayerfully seek what but the Lord might be leading you to do.
00:12:04
Speaker
ah There might be some comfort zone stuff for you there, especially if it's a smaller group and like, I'm going to be the only flute player or I'm going to be the only trombone player or whatever.
00:12:16
Speaker
And so I can understand that that discomfort, but at the same time, by adding that one instrument, you've just multiplied in a big way ah possibilities for music and for worship there. And so the Lord can use you in some very interesting and exciting ways to do that if you're willing if you're willing to step out
Navigating Different Music Styles in Churches
00:12:37
Speaker
on that.
00:12:37
Speaker
It does take some commitment, does take some time, so does anything else. But I would prayerfully encourage that. I also remember, it was years ago, place where I was working with choir at the time, having this one gentleman who was talking to me.
00:12:53
Speaker
He was talking about choir, but it really applies to instrumental music as well. Because he said you know said, I feel like choir is one of those last places where every person can contribute their part and result is so much greater than just the sum of the parts you know you contribute something it becomes bigger than just your part of it and that's certainly you know that that second flute part if you play it by itself might sound a little odd and weird and lonely and yet that might when you put it all together
00:13:24
Speaker
ah You know, it's that's the secret sauce that that makes a moment shine, you know, because of that one person's contribution. So you can make a ah huge difference in the moment and you can gain can gain some real joy out of that as well.
00:13:41
Speaker
So I would certainly encourage that. Yeah, that's a great word. And for the other person, this is someone who maybe plays an instrument, but within their church context where they are, they don't feel that there's really a place for them to to use that, whether it's, you know, and there's a modern worship band and a modern praise team and you're a flute player or, you know, yeah whatever context you're you're looking at. And maybe there's some desire there to do that, um but you don't maybe feel there's a place.
00:14:11
Speaker
However, you still feel very connected to the church, right? There's a lot of difficult things. What what made you might you say to one maybe ah encourage that person just, you know, in where they are or encourage them and finding a way to maybe challenge thought processes that are there? What would what might you say to that person?
00:14:29
Speaker
Well, I would say, and this is, you know, um having to step back, there's no approach to worship music in and of itself is wrong. So I wouldn't say that a church that worships using a worship band and praise team, that they're wrong, or that a ah church that uses big choir and orchestra is wrong, or or a traditional place that uses piano and organ, you know, that they're wrong.
00:14:53
Speaker
So I think that we have to, first of all, come at it with an understanding of, it's not that that that one approach is right and one approach is wrong you know um god want go with what the lord is leading in a particular moment in a particular place and i have been in churches with uh in worship settings with pretty much every conceivable combination of whatever yeah and i felt the lord work in in some mighty ways and so i I always want to be supportive of the leadership where they feel like God is taking them. I think that if you you know if you play an instrument and you feel comfortable saying talking to your worship leader, look, could I play along in one service on a song or something like that? you know Or is there some way that I could be involved once in a while for playing my instrument on those kind of things?
00:15:47
Speaker
Particularly with folks, you know it's it's the same kind of thing. if you you know I grew up with the whole big choir mentality. That was that was the model that I grew up with. and Eventually, it would be choir orchestra. That was that was kind of the base model for for what I grew up in.
00:16:04
Speaker
And so that's going to kind of always be the default of preference for me, even though I can and i can enjoy a small acoustic group or whatever, or a worship band or whatever.
00:16:15
Speaker
And someone who grew up in the model of a worship band and worship team, that's going to be what they're most comfortable with and what they most emotionally as well associate with with worship.
00:16:27
Speaker
And they probably see the use of the other instruments as, i mean, that's kind of cool, but that's not what we're going to do and what we want to do. So it may be just an exercise in frustration and futility for you and everyone involved to try to push that.
00:16:45
Speaker
yeah And don't make it about your agenda or what you want to do, but just pray about what the Lord, what opportunities he might have for you. And, you know it might be occasionally within the context of the church and maybe the Lord opens up some things or it might be like, OK, you know, I'm not going to be in the worship service, but there's an event coming up for senior adults and I can play my instrument for something or I can join Global Missions Project on one of their projects and I can play a part of an orchestra going to Ecuador or whatever.
00:17:13
Speaker
or Romania or you know Brazil or something along those lines. So there are going to be ways, but it may not be in that setting. But if the Lord gave you gift, he does want you to use that. So don't be so focused it's got to be this way. It's got to be at that 10 o'clock hour on Sunday morning on that platform in the context of that service.
00:17:38
Speaker
Maybe it's somewhere else. Maybe it's another way. But don't feel like you're being shut down from ever using that gift or that passion just because that particular door, you know, that's, that's not where your church chooses to go in terms of worship.
Musical Fulfillment vs. Church Service
00:17:51
Speaker
I think there's a lot of wisdom there.
00:17:53
Speaker
I grew up in a very conservative branch of the church and independent Baptist areas and um now in a Southern Baptist context. And so just throughout my life, I think because I've was a musician and was involved in church. I think there was a lot of people who wanted to drag me into worship war conversations, right? About like, which style do you prefer? How do you think it should be done in church? And ah how do you how do you think people really should should do their services, which is the best way? yeah And it was always a conversation that wasn't particularly interesting for me because i think I've had amazing worshipful experiences in so many different contexts of church services with piano and organ, with orchestra and choir, with ah modern you know worship band and all of those settings i feel can be can be done so well. And one thing though that I did find for myself that was important was many years ago, I made a decision that my personal musical fulfillment
00:18:50
Speaker
could never be laid on the shoulders of Sunday morning. When it happens, amazing. When when the music that is that really fulfills my heart and makes me really happy, when I get that on a Sunday morning, that's an amazing thing. But that's not the requirement. The rare requirement is that I'm i'm showing to up to serve. I'm showing up to to worship. And I need to be able to do that you know in any context because it's not about the music. It's about the one I'm worshiping.
00:19:14
Speaker
Absolutely. so And so I have found if it's about musical fulfillment, at times I need to find that that part of me, the purely musical, maybe not so much spiritual, but purely musical side of me, I can find some of those types outside the church or within the church in a different context. I love what you said about playing for maybe playing for a dinner or doing something that you know would be outside the context of Sunday morning, but would still give you some opportunity. so I think there's a lot of wisdom to be gained there. We sometimes I think put too much on the shoulders of Sunday morning that doesn't necessarily belong there.
00:19:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. It's not the purpose of that, of that time on Sunday
Composing Beyond a Job
00:19:51
Speaker
morning. Well, I appreciate that. I think that's going to be really encouraging as we wrap up. I just want to talk a little bit about your arranging and composing. You're quite well known inside the church and outside the church for your arrangements and compositions. And, and you've been doing, you said you've been doing that since you were an elementary age student. So yeah,
00:20:10
Speaker
I know it may not, it may be hard to put into words, but what is the thing that drives your, that desire to be creative in that way? This is usually something you're doing on top of everything else you're doing in your life. So yeah what's, what's driving you to do that?
00:20:23
Speaker
Well, and, and, and that's true. You know, it's, it's been something that has always been and important part of my life, but it's never been my job. It's always been and part, you know, if you go far enough down the the job description list, you'll find, you know, you'll find that there as part of the job.
00:20:39
Speaker
So there's always a there's part of me, if im if I go a while without creating something, I will hear something or I will see something or whatever, and I'll get you know just get the itch. like you know' I've got some um got some feelings, got some ideas and thoughts, and I i need to get to it.
00:20:59
Speaker
Fortunately, I've almost always had ah reason to write. Of the 300-plus publications, 1,500-plus pieces I've written over the years, Very, very few of those were things where I just decided I just need to sit down and write something.
00:21:13
Speaker
Okay. The overwhelming majority that was, you know, we need something for a Sunday service or we need something for this group or a special event or, you know, publisher's like, hey, can you do such and such or there's
Creative Opportunities in Band Music
00:21:24
Speaker
a commission.
00:21:24
Speaker
So that is that's been the the driving force primarily is I've been in situations, thankfully, over the years where people That was a needed aspect. And sometimes I can help i help create that for my own my own sense. We host, like many universities that have band programs, we host ah an honor band for high school students every February on our campus.
00:21:47
Speaker
And if you know somebody's listening and they want to take a look at that, go to umobile.edu slash honor band, and you can find out all about how to be a part of that.
00:21:58
Speaker
We talked about we're a small school and we I know that we are a a small fish in a big pond when it comes to that kind of thing. So we're all looking for what are the extra little things that we can do to make this appealing for students to attend our honor band instead of just going to University of Alabama or Southern Mississippi or something along those lines.
00:22:15
Speaker
And so I started, gosh, a dozen years ago after coming to UM of composing a piece of music for that group to premiere as part of Honor Man. And so that is something that like, okay, I can do this. I don't have to pay anybody because I haven't got a budget. You know, it's for free sort of.
00:22:33
Speaker
But it also creates an opportunity and a pressure for me to to write a ah concert band piece at least once a year for for that group. And in fact, I'm in sketch mode right now for you know what the next piece is going to be.
00:22:48
Speaker
What's been interesting is that now in recent years, a number of those pieces, Carl Fisher's now published, and there's another one coming out in the spring. And it's fantastic. ah satisfying moment because when I started first started submitting music, band music, it's like, okay, I'm starting all over again. you know that way They don't know who I am and I'm submitting music for their consideration.
00:23:07
Speaker
And so there was some satisfaction that I could could do that and get accepted you in the in the
Inspiration from Creative Environments
00:23:12
Speaker
concert band world. and And they're liking it and it's getting some attention. And now I'm walking into high school band rooms and we're going to games. I was at a game recently and the band director yelled at the band you know Do you remember this piece that we played last spring?
00:23:26
Speaker
That was your favorite piece ever that you love so much. And they cheered and they said, well, this is the guy who wrote it. you know And um so that's given me some new opportunities and it's recruiting. I'm trying to yeah be able to talk to those folks as well.
00:23:39
Speaker
So, you know, it's it's always been kind of a sideline, but I kind of need the deadline. I need the pressure. I need the reason. And that's really helpful, you know, to to have those moments. And then there are moments of inspiration. Every time I go to Disney, I come away wanting to write music just because there's so much creativity there.
00:23:57
Speaker
And, you know, I'm just, okay, I've got to put something on paper. And you just keep hammering away, keep trying to listen to new things and keep trying to grow and do better, you know, that stuff as well.
Accessing Steve Dunn's Works
00:24:08
Speaker
Well, I'm glad you're doing it. I've always ive found your both your arrangements, compositions, whichever one I'm listening to, um just full of so much inspiration and creativity. I love the how you use rhythm. I think how you use rhythm and harmony, both of those two things are just something that's really unique and very exciting, makes it excellent to listen to.
00:24:27
Speaker
Thank you. Well, how Can folks, one, maybe find if they're interested in hearing some of your arrangements, whether that's for choir, band, orchestra, I think string quartets, you've done quite the array of things.
00:24:40
Speaker
So if they're interested in finding some of your works, where can they go to find some of those things? Well, the ah the easiest place is to go to my website.
00:24:51
Speaker
That's sdunemusic.com. Anything that's available, whether I sell it through my website or whether it's a published thing, that you know there are links to that.
00:25:05
Speaker
You know you can see a lot of things and keep up with anything new that's come out. I do have a page with JWPepper.com. You can just search my name and there are pieces in addition to the things that are published. There are some self-published things there.
00:25:21
Speaker
I do have some music at churchorchestramusic.com. And, you know, you can find actually yeah know some of the same pieces are found in a variety of those places. And then some that are little unique to each to each location or whatever.
00:25:35
Speaker
But if you if you're really are a sucker for listening to Steve Dunn music, now you can go to sdunnmusic.com. There's a ah music player at the bottom of the screen. You press play and then hang on for a couple hours and if you want to. just Perfect. A little of everything music. Yeah, for sure.
00:25:52
Speaker
Great. That'll be my background music this afternoon while I'm working. yeah Well, and right now, of course, it won't by the time you publish this, it won't apply. But the first hour of that is just Christmas music now. So you've got to listen to that for a while. I do that every Christmas season.
00:26:08
Speaker
i love that. That's great. Well, I will include all those links that you mentioned in the show notes so people can easily access those and just follow those if they are interested in getting to know a bit more
Conclusion and Exploring Musical Avenues
00:26:19
Speaker
about you. It's been great to have this conversation.
00:26:21
Speaker
Before I go, I have one fun question that I'm just going to ask a lot of people. I'm going to see as I do the interviews, I'm going to see if there's ah any ah themes or clear winners when it comes to this. But if you could snap your finger and play proficiently any instrument that you don't currently play, what instrument would that be and why?
00:26:40
Speaker
um It kind of goes back and forth. um I probably would, I would love to be a better piano player. I i joke that I play scripturally. I don't let my left hand do what my right hand's doing.
00:26:51
Speaker
You know. but But probably as far as far as instruments that I really have no real background in, cello, probably.
00:27:02
Speaker
I just, I love cello. I love the possibilities there. As ah my background as a trombone player, so I guess probably that low brass register. But I i love writing for cello.
00:27:13
Speaker
and Got to do some nice things for that. And I just really love that instrument. So that would probably be it I'd probably Well, as an orchestral string player, I approve that. I approve of that choice. I think that'd be great. think you'd make a great cello player.
00:27:27
Speaker
ah probably right. know It's hard. It's tiring. It makes you tired to play cello. I'll tell you that. All right. Well, Steve, it has been just such a pleasure talking with you. I hope this conversation is is going to be an encouragement to many who are out there, ah hopefully encourage some people to go get involved and hopefully you so encourage people in their work that they're doing in their churches.
00:27:51
Speaker
And I will wish you all the best as you get have your winter break, get a little bit of rest before you head into the spring semester. Thank you. It's been a treat. It's been a treat getting to to catch up with you too, Victor. really Yes. Again, hopefully next time we'll see each other in person.
00:28:06
Speaker
Hopefully. Take care.
00:28:10
Speaker
I know I said it last episode, but Steve just has so much wisdom and I'm so grateful that he chose to be on this show with us and share a little bit of his heart. Be sure to check the notes in the podcast description for links to where you can purchase Steve's music and also find some music by other arrangers that he mentioned in this episode as well.
00:28:32
Speaker
If you are enjoying this podcast and you believe in the use of instrumental music and church worship, please like, share, and tell other people about this podcast. I look forward to seeing you next time.