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C2 Ep 45 Eberron Reviewed 9
251 Plays4 years ago
Come hang out as we take a look at the last arc and answer your questions!
This episode is brought to you by the generous donations of our amazing Show Sponsors: Laura Pickrahn, Darrin Katzska, Irene Viorritto, Ryan Royce, Darrell DeLaney, Jessica Smith, Charles Compton, Danielle Bramhall-Smith, Nastasia Raulerson, The Kamm Family, David Scrams, Elizabeth Clark, Andy Dossett, Rebekah Gowman, deviouspoptart, Eðvarð Arnór Sigurðsson, Michael Clark, Eric Witman, and Shelby Johnson.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Context
00:00:00
Speaker
The following episode is brought to you by the generous donations of Laura Pickron, Darryl Delaney, Darren Katska, Deavius Poptart, Irene Villarito, Ryan Royce, Andy Dossett, Danielle Bramhall-Smith, Elizabeth Clark, Eric Whitman, Jessica Smith, Charles Compton, Natasha Rallerson, Richard Cree, The Cam Family, David Scrams, Dustin Troop, Edvard Arnoff, Michael Clark,
00:00:25
Speaker
Rebecca Gowman, and Shelby Johnson, as well as all of our generous patrons.
00:01:19
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome to Eberron renewed an actual play tabletop RPG podcast where we use the Genesis game and the Eberron campaign setting I am Jeff I'm Philip I'm Trevor I'm Randy
00:01:34
Speaker
And I'm Eric. And since I'm talking at the front of this, you know, and also, you know, counting, this is an episode. You know, OK, a lot of clues. The fact that we requested questions if you're on the Discord.
Review of Previous Episodes
00:01:49
Speaker
A lot of clues. You know, way to go, all of you sleuths. You figured it out. This is Eberron Reviewed. This is where we go back over the last three episodes. We are still mid arc.
00:02:03
Speaker
So again, we have not quite as many questions as I think we will by the time this bad boy wraps up. But we do have a lot to talk about. So yeah, let's just get into it. Again, since I didn't say it super clearly, if you have not listened to the last three episodes, if you are new, this is the worst possible place to start. Outside of the final episode of campaign one, I can't think of a worse place to start listening than this episode. Please go back to the beginning of this campaign and start at this there.
Strategy Discussion in the Cogs
00:02:28
Speaker
So this section of this arc begins with us. We're in the cogs. We are essentially in eyesight of the Mill Hatch lower division warehouse slash factory slash lab slash whatever it is.
00:02:46
Speaker
And we decided that it is time for us to case the area, spend some time looking around, seeing what we can notice. Some things, we obviously rolled some dice. I think we got some triumphs. Raynard found an open window. We were able to make it so that
00:03:04
Speaker
Now, okay, we threw around interchangeable terms throughout this between scrying stones and sending stones. We, all the players, I think had a really good idea of what we were talking about, but for the listener who might have had some confusion, and I know there's a direct question about this that we'll get to, but it's a little more nuanced than this.
00:03:22
Speaker
We were saying there were essentially security cameras and however one wanted to envision those, they could. And we'll get a little more in depth in that when we get to the questions. But basically we were able to disable a portion of those before we even got into, well, we didn't disable them. We prevented the guy who was supposed to keep them running from keeping them running before we even got in.
00:03:47
Speaker
and we feel pretty confident about our plan and then all of a sudden the episode ends with our boy Milo getting kicked in the back which leads to uh uh the bulk of episode two is a fight and then we get into the facility we uh i did i stopped and i asked eric and we got into the facility i said do we need to like um
00:04:10
Speaker
making notes of a map are you about to make a dungeon crawl happen and i saw i could hear philips chest tightened through the airwaves uh but it wasn't that and i'll be perfectly honest this is the episode on the fuzziest on despite the recency bias i should have so if you guys want to help me uh with a final episode any really interesting through some doors we
00:04:31
Speaker
hack into the security system, or Eris hacks into the security system.
Encounter with Reptilian Figure and Mechanics Discussion
00:04:37
Speaker
Raynard gets to be invisible. We sneak through the room and find a hatch in the bottom of the floor where there's screaming coming from. And we descend and are met by the lizard. A reptilian-looking figure of no notable cognizant reference.
00:04:57
Speaker
And that's it. And some shifters hooked up to machines. Yes, presumably the missing shifters hooked up to machines. Certainly some missing shifters. Certainly. What Eris found was just further evidence of what we assumed was happening. They're trying to get certain traits of certain beasts into people or humanoids, sentience, creatures.
00:05:25
Speaker
Um, all right. Well, we were able to rock out about three minutes on that. So, um, no, so let's ask some questions. The first one is from Darren question for Eric Eric's or Darren says that he loves the way that you used the player's input and dice rolls to build out the details of the warehouse right at the table. Um, provide some guidance on how you might be able to do something like that in five E and of course, Phillip and Randy having both also DM'd if you have.
00:05:54
Speaker
some ideas. I'm sure that Darren will be happy for any and all input. Yeah, I in terms of how to port something like that to fifth edition, the inherent difficulty of porting anything from Genesis into fifth edition is the lack of a secondary axis because that's where a lot of that came from was, you know, you pass your check, you do a thing,
Adapting RPG Mechanics to Other Systems
00:06:21
Speaker
you have advantage, you get to establish a thing, you have threats, something else gets established, same with trying to do despair.
00:06:28
Speaker
I think you could do it with degrees of success. Yeah, you set a DC for just accomplishing what you were trying to do and then You know in increments of five above that DC you get to tack on Some way in which it is advantageous to you. Yeah, you just don't get the good but or no and
00:06:51
Speaker
I mean, yeah, no, I mean, that's true. I mean, you could you could do it where you set the DC and then if it's within five of the DC You do succeed with a cost with the cost and then and if you're below You fail with an advantage so you could do something like that. It's not elegant in any way another way that you could do it is have them roll like a
00:07:17
Speaker
This is just as an elegant, but have a secondary die that represents the secondary conditions. So like a D12 or a D6 or whatever alongside the D20. But once again, you're dealing with inelegant solutions, trying to do a mechanic that doesn't really. But I think the meat of Darren's question is how do you how do you let the players roles flesh out the situation? And you can certainly do that without needing the
00:07:45
Speaker
the very specific scenario of fail but or succeed but yeah it could be as much as one to five there's no way up five to ten there's a rope 10 to 15 there's stairs yeah yeah i mean and and if you roll a 15 to 20 it or maybe 1520 is it's stairs so everyone gets up easily there's your extra boom and the important
00:08:07
Speaker
aspect of it that uh that was in the episode is I mean save yourself some troubles at DM and don't come up with what those are like just if they if they pass with a certain level of condition just ask them okay what what's true about this scenario
00:08:24
Speaker
Or even if they just pass. I've run a game where every knowledge check where I didn't create a detailed setting and every knowledge check I made the player answer whatever question they had just asked and wrote it down in my notebook. Yeah. So yeah, I think there's a lot of ways to do that and just be fluid, be flexible, and much like with Genesis, allow your players to
00:08:51
Speaker
provide the input and the insight of what they want. And if they can't come up with anything, then obviously you can step in and say, OK, well, is this good enough? Do you like this? And so and if you've never done that, I think if something sounds reasonable like that probably would be, then I don't even know that I would necessarily make them even roll. If it just sounds like, yeah, that place would have that.
00:09:17
Speaker
Yeah. And if you've never done that with your players or they've never done that with another DM or GM, don't expect it to be real good the first few times you ask them. Yeah. Everybody learned to get like, I mean, it wasn't for us. If you go back and listen to, well, I mean, certainly the Star Wars with me who'd never played anything or the Dusters and Dragons thing.
00:09:39
Speaker
I would argue, I'm still not very good at it. But there's some sea legs to be built with telling the DM or GM what his world looks like. Yeah. And that's one of the biggest growing pains, I think, from early games in any D20 system, whether it's D&D, Pathfinder, what have you, either trying to make your D20 game more narrative or transferring over to a more narrative system like Genesis.
00:10:07
Speaker
is early on at most tables, the DM is the pack mule. They have everything on their back, and they're trying to carry that load. And trying to get the players involved in that does take a lot of work, I guess. Not at the fault of the players, just you establish a certain dynamic, and when you start to shift that, it just takes time. So yeah.
00:10:31
Speaker
I would not be able to live with myself if I didn't point out the fact that at some point during all of that, Eric did say, if you don't play Genesis, you don't get that good butt. And that feels important to me.
00:10:45
Speaker
He might have followed it with order the no and, but that's lost to the sands of time. I just thought of this. Wow. At one point, it was after we had cased the place and we said we were going to go to the whatever local bar and Eris and Hob got milkshakes. At some point, Eric goes, and there are other people in there, and they are consuming drink and food. And I was like, Eric is a human, right?
00:11:15
Speaker
My TM and dear friend for years is not in fact an alien is Listen, sometimes like my brain gets tired and it just says words in in in an order that is passable to be fair I did tell my son that his chair was on the chair about 12 times before I got shirked out properly earlier this evening. So
00:11:35
Speaker
Okay. Why was his chair on the shirt, Joe? Nice. Well, the kid's got to get big somehow and he won't go to the gym. I put his necessities under heavy things and he'll either get it or he'll be cold. All right. I promise I'm a loving father. Tough loving. All right. Arnor wrote a very... I almost said very long. That sounds derogatory.
00:12:05
Speaker
It is accurate. It's a lengthy question. Arnor wrote a well-considered, lengthy question and comment thing, and I'm going to do my best to distill it to the couple of questions that I think are at the crux of it. And I apologize, Arnor, if I don't do a good job, please give me a couple more for the next time, okay? The crux of it all is, the first portion of it is talking about
00:12:31
Speaker
At some point, I flipped a story point, and it was just like, yep. And at one point, Randy flipped a story point, and then was made to roll on top of the story point flipped. Also, so there's part of the question is, Eric, what is your decision on story points, word versus story points plus roll? And also, when you choose to flip a story point, it has been noticed that it is almost not, almost exclusively. Sometimes it feels that way when you're playing it.
00:13:00
Speaker
It is more often than not during combat to upgrade a check for us. So when do you decide when it's appropriate to flip a story point? When do you decide it's appropriate what we get to do with ours? And then also the throwing in the blue dice thing. And that is a bit for us as well. So start with the first part first.
Role of Players in Storytelling
00:13:18
Speaker
Yeah, so the thing with Milo having the badge, that was pinged off of a species ability called Trixie, because Trixie hobbitses, where Milo could produce a small item at the cost of a story point. And so he did that.
00:13:39
Speaker
But then he was attempting to use that to have an impact on his surroundings. I mean, another way of thinking of it is if Milo had flipped that to say, I have a knife, he doesn't just get to stab somebody. Like, he would have to roll to actually stab. And so, yeah, it was very clever and very well thought out by Randy.
00:14:03
Speaker
But you all were up against the ropes in that room. You all had come in hot, and things were not going super at that point. And the conversation had been going a long time. Like, there's none of us who, upon meeting someone who really is trying to get into our house, and then suddenly they go, oh. By the way, I'm a cop. I'm a cop. There's none of us who would just go, oh. Let me back up. And so, yeah, try to get into my house for a half hour, and then tell me you're a cop, and see if it's true.
00:14:34
Speaker
And then using the story point to upgrade the difficulty of the check was reflective of how bad things had been going. I mean, that guy was in a worse mindset than when you all had walked in the room in terms of believing you and wanting to give you information or cooperate with you. And so, yeah, I mean, the check got upgraded because
00:14:57
Speaker
because of that reason. And generally speaking, I try to avoid just arbitrarily upgrading a check without spinning a story point. Just saying, yeah, and it's a red. Unless the enemy has adversary, in which case that is just the mechanics. Whereas, and honestly, I don't remember what story point flip Arnor is referencing in terms of Jeff.
00:15:22
Speaker
Uh, but I mean, it's, it's very similar to the last episode of this arc where, uh, I think something was used to establish a window above the door. Um, but that window was not just open and free for the party to utilize.
00:15:39
Speaker
I either spent a story point or I know you rolled a bunch of advantage. You rolled a triumph and I asked if I could use your triumph to make a transom above the door. Yeah, that's what it was. And so, yeah, I mean, the story points being flipped or triumphs and advantages having an impact on the world that can benefit the players is totally reasonable. And obviously the way the game is intended to be role are utilized, but
00:16:04
Speaker
The other people in this world have agency and their opinions can change about the player characters and that's going to be reflected in social roles and stuff like that. And while Randy being very clever, and this is something that I'm reconciling in my own brain over the past couple of days with some discussions that's been going on in our Discord, but
00:16:28
Speaker
You know, people at the table being very clever or very good with their words or very inherently charismatic having an innate advantage over other players that maybe don't possess those traits when it comes to social skills.
00:16:42
Speaker
is a dubious, like, for the past six months, I've been lifting weights and working out a lot. Can I have advantage on all my athletics checks because I've been working really hard at becoming physically stronger? No. See? So just because I can use words well, do I get advantage on all my charisma checks? And so, yeah. Anyway, that's just something that I'm reconciling in my own brain. But no, I mean, absolutely if, with the blue dice thing,
00:17:12
Speaker
Well, hang on. I actually did. I realized after I said that I didn't articulate the blue dice portion of this. Yeah. Why don't you give up more blue dice for good clever ideas or good role playing? And also, why don't we and the other side of that, which is fair, why don't we petition you for more blue dice for clever? And see, my my thing is the the school of thought that I was kind of raised in as a Genesis GM and the tables that I played at and ran really early on.
00:17:42
Speaker
Um, the GM tended to very much put it on the players to ask for a blue dye. Like if you can justify a blue dye, you can have one, but they weren't as quick to just toss them out, I guess. And so that's just something in my own style where if you all were to ask for blue dyes, I am very rarely going to say no.
00:18:05
Speaker
But I tend to not do the best job of keeping in the back of my mind to give them out I also don't administer as many black dice as I should either to be fair, but I I need to be better I'll say this I know myself well enough to know that if I if I got it in my head that I have to petition for my own blue dice I would become insufferable however given the opportunity to petition for blue dice for the other three I
00:18:31
Speaker
I would be sufferable, there would still be suffering, but it would be better. You would suffer, but it would be endurable suffering. Yeah, exactly. I kind of like that idea. I might employ that personally going forward as being like, okay, but did you hear the way that Trevor said that? That's very Kids on Bike.
00:18:50
Speaker
Uh, I think it's, I think it's a little bit kids on bikes. What it is, it's, it's very free-form universal. You, I meant that positively. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I know. I know. There's only one part of kids on bikes you absolutely disliked. And it is not a part of that. Free-form universal is a kind of, you know,
00:19:07
Speaker
ephemeral RPG is the best way to say it. And one of the things they do, they call them food points. If you freeform universal that you can pass out to you or you can you can petition to be given to your other players so that they can enact magical abilities. I kind of like that idea. For my part with this. Eric very rarely sets very high DC's.
Character Development and Narrative Failure
00:19:33
Speaker
And frankly, I have Aeris pretty darn tricked out.
00:19:39
Speaker
with all of her gadgets. So Eris is usually rolling at least one bonus die on any roll just from all the gadgetry that she's got going. And frankly, I really like there being... I really like feeling that there is a real chance of failure because I find failure in most situations to be very interesting. You know, unless we're rolling something dumb, which we're not usually. We've gotten pretty good about not rolling over things that will have no consequence if they fail. Yeah.
00:20:09
Speaker
and I'm interested in seeing which way the story goes, and so I'm not really inclined to stack my roles to just try and guarantee, to try and do more to guarantee success. I realize that the way Genesis works, you can't guarantee perfect success, and that's a good element of design. But that's my thinking on it, is I'm not
00:20:38
Speaker
I'm not unaware that I could ask for blue dice. I'm just... I feel that I've got a good hand, and I'm, you know... When I have a hand that I'm worried about, I will sometimes try and think if I can justify asking for one, and if I can, I will. But if I feel okay about the hand that I'm rolling, then I won't, because I want to see what the dice tell me.
00:21:01
Speaker
And I'll be honest, it never occurred to me to try to ask for a blue dice, partially because I didn't...
00:21:10
Speaker
Honestly, you know, mainly because I'm... I really am a kind of a rules person. And the fact that there is already a mechanic in place for establishing blue dice made me think, well, that's how you get them. It would be silly to ask for something outside of the rules. You get them by passing an advantage on to somebody else. And so it's never even entered my... I mean, I'm a dumb, like, that's established. So it shouldn't be surprising to anybody that was unable to think outside the box.
00:21:42
Speaker
I hope we got to the core of what you were asking, Arnor. And I do want to say, I did not paraphrase it because of the criticisms within it. They are fair. I think we asked the questions that addressed them. I don't want you to think that we are trying to censor or soften your questions. And please let me know if this was okay.
00:22:07
Speaker
That real quick to you know when my back to the badge You know when Milo did that I mean and Eric had me make the rules I mean it didn't even occur to me like well how come he didn't have Jeff make I mean, you know that just didn't enter my mind and
00:22:28
Speaker
I thought and based on when Milo had come up with the idea I'm like you know this guy's my thought is this guy's not gonna believe me I'm gonna have to make a roll I mean that was just in my head so anyway Milo did not feel slighted in any way good well and one last one last piece before we want to finish this question because the the frequency with which I flipped story points was something that was also brought up
00:22:53
Speaker
And the reason I do that is because from a design standpoint, turning a purple into a red does not actually make it less likely that the players will succeed.
00:23:06
Speaker
Um, adding purples does that, um, and making the red just increases the likelihood that something interesting will happen and with a despair. And that's like my preferred world, uh, like is, is with you all succeeding, but with something interesting happening on top of that. Like I want to see you all succeed and leave devastation in your wake. Uh,
00:23:35
Speaker
We have rolled remarkably few despairs. Like I don't feel like we roll a ton of red dice. I don't feel like we roll a ton of red dice, especially considering the amount of yellow dice that we are able to throw at most problems. But even for the amount we have rolled, I feel like we've rolled remarkably few despairs over the course of the campaign. Obviously, I have just awakened the dice gods.
00:24:01
Speaker
Yeah, we could even cut this out of the episode is dumped in said and that's what really My phone my my phone's gonna have targeted ads for despairs for weeks now
00:24:12
Speaker
Okay, all right. Mark has a question. Welcome, Mark. I think this might be your first question we've addressed on Eberron Review. I know he came through with Kyber Shards, right? Yeah, we had a couple of Kyber Shards, including this one, because it was a crossover. It is, it's a crossover. In fact, first thing, new crossover question.
00:24:31
Speaker
Um, for Eric slash Phillip, respectively, that's from him. No respect for me. When you're running a game with a PC who doesn't seem invested in the adventure you're telling, not the player, the character.
Engaging Uninvested Characters
00:24:43
Speaker
Uh, how do you create plot hooks to try and draw them into the campaign? Have you ever had to handle a situation in a home game where a PC left the campaign because they just didn't fit with the rest of the party?
00:24:53
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, the biggest thing, and this is something I've talked about pretty frequently over on the YouTube channel, is that concept of moving the goalposts. And, you know, if you have a PC or a group of PCs that don't seem invested or whatever in the story that you're trying to tell,
00:25:20
Speaker
then I guess changing the window dressing is a better way to put it. Like you can you can keep the core function of what you're wanting to do. But you know, and Philip mentioned this on the Kyber Chard answers where he spoke to this question. But mind the backstory, like go go into the history of this character and
00:25:44
Speaker
figure out what they care about, what the player cared enough about to put to paper in terms of this character's background in history. And I mean, that should be something like you're striving to do from the outset in the way that I tend to design campaigns. But but yeah, I mean, I think that's that's what you need to do now to answer the second part of your question.
00:26:13
Speaker
Fortunately, I've never had to handle a situation in any game that I've had where a player character left because they didn't fit with the rest of the story when I was DMing. I have withdrawn a character.
00:26:26
Speaker
from a campaign because I didn't think they fit well with the rest of the party or the story being told. It was before we'd learned about session zeros. Yes. And yeah. And yet, ironically, every time Philip and I have tried to do a campaign with a session zero, those have been the ones that have floundered. No, but but yeah. So yeah, I mean, that's that's my thing is I've done it as a player, but never as a DM have I
00:26:56
Speaker
talk to a player and said, hey, I don't I don't think your character is going to work. Let's figure something else out.
00:27:01
Speaker
I've had that conversation at session zero where somebody's pitched a concept and be like, well, can we tweak some things? But I think that's a very different thing. I think most most players, I mean, me, if if I don't feel like my character is, you know, fits the campaign or if I haven't become invested in him, like, you know, like Faradak.
00:27:27
Speaker
It was like, you know, this just didn't work for me. Can, you know, can I get a new character? Can I roll up somebody else? Yeah. You know, and I'd do the same thing if I thought my character just didn't fit the campaign. I'd say, I don't want to just quit. Can I get somebody new? No, you get one, Randy. Your character leaves you out. You're done. Your character dies. You're out. This is D&D hardcore.
00:27:54
Speaker
Hand over your character sheet and tear it out. Yeah, we're gonna melt your dice down. You're you're out of the table Dishonorably discharged Yeah, let's jump back cuz I accidentally skipped one also from mark question for Philip and Trevor
00:28:18
Speaker
Listening to the latest episodes, it feels like your characters don't want to be in an RPG campaign, if that makes sense. Was that intentional on your part to create a character that didn't want to be an adventurer, or have they evolved to become that way? Do you see them ever becoming those types of characters that want to go on adventures, or will they always want to fight against the idea of getting swept up in a story? Trevor, I've talked to you haven't. I think
00:28:45
Speaker
Raynards would be more of just avoiding obligation rather than not wanting to go on adventure. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Raynards got some strong Bartleby the Scrivener vibes. He just doesn't seem to want to do much. So yeah, I mean, I would say he's down to like do what the group is supposed to do, but maybe not necessarily going to be like,
00:29:16
Speaker
Hey, let's do this other thing that you guys don't really have any association with other than me. And Raynard's kind of just, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but he's just kind of out for himself. I mean, he's there, but if he needs to book it, he books it. He's looking after number one. I've said it before, as long as the job gets done. Yeah.
00:29:44
Speaker
and the payment gets where it's supposed to be. Eris very much wants to be an adventurer. Eris is not convinced that she's employed by the right people anymore after one of them threatened to chop off her hand.
00:30:05
Speaker
So, you know, I don't really, she doesn't really want to be employed by these people anymore. And she's deeply unthrilled by the degree to which we're becoming increasingly entangled in the houses. But Eris very much wants to be an adventurer. She's not convinced she wants to be on the specific adventure that the Boromar clan wants her to be on. But
00:30:35
Speaker
I mean, Eris has pitched, let's flee to storm reach. Like, let's go hide in a pirate haven. That's not avoiding adventure. It's a new adventure. So, no, Eris is not fighting against adventure. Eris is not averse to adventure. She would love to go on adventures. She is not convinced that we are currently on a wise adventure.
00:31:04
Speaker
Um, and yeah, but mostly, mostly Daris has had a terrible three or four weeks. Uh, and she's very unhappy. Yeah, I guess, uh, at a lot of people.
00:31:23
Speaker
One thing that I have not considered is how different the last month has been from the rest of Hob's life. And that's on me. Hob has always, or for a while, just been jobbing for the Boromars.
00:31:39
Speaker
I can't imagine it looks like this, so I really should be playing that work. I think it's interesting, and I hope Mark doesn't think I'm pushing back, that he didn't mention, Hobb doesn't feel like anything he's done so far has been particularly adventurous, and the closer it starts to veer to that, I think Hobb might start to get more concerned about it.
00:32:01
Speaker
likes his corner of shard where he cracks heads and makes money and has friends. So I will say he has been very amiable, which I think might have been what colored this, like he's been going along with the things he's been asked to do because he is a loyal person who does his job. But I don't know if he necessarily considers himself adventurous. Yeah, and Milo's having thoughts about can I just be a bookkeeper again?
00:32:29
Speaker
I mean, you know, if it wasn't for this magic stuff. He wants to retire. If it wasn't for this magic stuff, he's all of a sudden found himself with. That's what he would be doing. Eris was probably happy to be a petty thief for the Boromars, which kind of seemed to be our original job. And Eris is very happy to make things for for them. But Eris has
00:32:59
Speaker
Eris has a very clear idea of what punching her weight looks like. And the more we veer into ticking off yet another dragon marked house and the more Eris is terrified every time we're invited to see Satan. Eris wants three or four degrees of separation between her and the head of a criminal organization.
00:33:25
Speaker
Uh, if she has to, or she wants to break away and be our own criminal organization. Um, but Eris has a very particular idea of what her punching weight is. And she feels that we are currently punching way out of our league to flip and mix sportsmen, of course, punching above our weight class touchdown.
00:33:51
Speaker
All right, Arnor comes back in. Eberron, question, how are you guys liking the change from a single session adventure to a multi-session adventure?
Virtual vs In-Person RPG Sessions
00:34:01
Speaker
Additionally, is it better or worse doing multi-session arcs virtually, as in, do you have a better note-taking system when you do everything in front of the computer? I will say, as far as notes, this might be good to round into Arnor's next question because it is
00:34:17
Speaker
Could we talk about the benefits of the short reduced episodes and the normal one session arcs and then the long adventure? So expanding that into kind of a pros and cons between the two formats. Sure, absolutely. I will say this, my note taking system has changed and then I'm taking notes to this campaign, which has nothing to do with virtual and more to do with me taking this seriously and wanting to be better at it. I also take notes in a notebook, just like I did with Beric.
00:34:47
Speaker
I mean, for one, we're recording at our computer and you guys don't wanna hear me typing notes. For one, I got a quieter keyboard because of all the recording that I do and I occasionally look something up, but me typing all of my notes down would be no good. Plus I like handwriting. I won't go off on a teacher rant about all the benefits of handwriting notes over typed notes, but look it up, it's there.
00:35:17
Speaker
I will say, as far as going from a single session to a multi-session adventure, by and large, we did actually get entire arcs done in one recording session, but it's not every time. So we regularly will be like, okay, we didn't get to start recording until 9pm. We've got two episodes in the can. Can we get back together three days from now and get a third one?
00:35:41
Speaker
I mean it happens and even when we were doing campaign one there were times where Philip couldn't make it in or if I wasn't feeling well I would remote in so we we've been doing variations of this since
00:35:57
Speaker
probably midway through campaign one was when we finally started being like okay we need to keep recording and Philip cannot make it up we'll go virtual for this time and so that actually hasn't been a huge change um we are all champion champing at the bit to get back around the same table together for sure five sure even
00:36:21
Speaker
And then as far as the only con that I have found of not doing interstitial reviews during the middle of an arc if it runs long is people just don't have questions because they like to ask questions about how it ended, how it began, how it ended, and what changed between the two. So it's a lot more a filler from us. We appreciate those of you who do have questions.
00:36:44
Speaker
We also appreciate those of you that don't have questions. I'm down with everybody. But that's the only con that I have in all of this is I think it's more difficult to harvest questions, or honestly, interesting things to say sometimes. It doesn't keep me from talking. I don't know. I like both. This one, we've gotten to be a little more involved.
00:37:11
Speaker
On the other hand, you enjoy the nice, tight, episodic feel of a single session adventure. That's nice. But this one, we've gotten a lot more detailed. We've gotten a lot more development. I will say the only thing I might call a con is something inherent in Genesis is because you earn XP every episode, you get to tweak your character every episode.
00:37:35
Speaker
And technically we're allowed to do that, but I can't bring myself to. And so I've just got XP piling up, waiting for the next time where there are a few days where I can justify Eris learning something new. And so that's bringing a hole in my pocket, and I hate that feeling.
00:37:57
Speaker
But that's not actually inherent in anything that Eric has done or that the campaign is. That's just my idiosyncrasy. And if the obligation keeps piling up, we won't be spending it anyway. Well, that's a different problem. Guys, I'm doing my best.
00:38:16
Speaker
I just want to say, I have reduced my obligation on every occasion that I've been given to do so. You are presented with opportunities to reduce your obligation at every occasion. Hey, you had an opportunity, you just didn't take it. I didn't even know who those twerps were the first time we saw them.
00:38:33
Speaker
Literally, we hadn't established what had been done. We did that in a reduced way. Listen, if we're talking about reducing the obligation and dropping the ball, stop yelling at me and look at the guy in the hat. For the record, everybody Randy's wearing a hat. No, I am not. I'm just here for the drama. I'm just here for the drama. Let's put some theater in it. Come on.
00:39:02
Speaker
Um, for my part is the GM. I, I very much like the longer adventures I've discovered. Um, because from a planning state, like Phillip said, uh, you can have a lot more detail and it feels less rushed. Like I don't feel like I have to push the pace at the table.
00:39:23
Speaker
Uh, and also like, uh, the, the, the evil, uh, the person that they discovered at the end of the last episode, I've had that fight and that encounter written out for like a month and a half now because we haven't gotten to it. So, um, so the planning is a lot easier during the actual arc because I'm not having to plan every single time we're recording. I have the adventure clocked and I will revisit it before we record and tweak stuff.
00:39:53
Speaker
Um, but yeah, you know, I, I like it a lot because I feel like it, it, it allows things to breathe and feel less rushed. Um, cause you know, early on in this campaign, we would have those like third episode of the arc episodes where like the last five minutes was.
00:40:12
Speaker
a lot of stuff because it was like okay and then this happens and this and this and this and now we're done. And so we run into that less with the longer stuff. I will say also even in campaign one we never recorded like we recorded max four episodes in an actual sit-down session and then yeah if there was more to do we would get together again and I think that could stem from well one we're all like
00:40:35
Speaker
Most of us are our parents. All of us have other lives. But by and large, we just know that we're going to sound a lot better doing two hour threes than one hour six.
00:40:45
Speaker
of a session to play. We would get tired. We would get burnt out. And so I think that we also know our own limits for giving you guys quality. It's different. I'll play seven hours with my buddies that know poor people in Michigan have to suffer through. But when it comes to this podcast, we know better than that. In fact, I think we're one of the few podcasts that does bank. I think most of them
00:41:16
Speaker
play an hour a week, and I can't imagine doing that. That would be, for multiple reasons, that would be very difficult for me. Not the least of which is having to stop playing after an hour. Arnor continues. Trevor, he says, I forget, but I think this is your first RPG ever, and it's all been virtual. Do you think doing this face to face will change the experience for you or not?
Transitioning from Virtual to In-Person Play
00:41:48
Speaker
It's not my first RPG, is it? You played the D&D with the Geek Pantheon as a homicidal, as a sociopathic Christmasal. That's true. And we did the one-shots? Yeah, this is your first long-form campaign. This definitely is, yes. You've never sat down to play the same character three times. True.
00:42:10
Speaker
Yeah it is a little weird because I definitely have questions about everything. Who are you people? What do you think? But I feel a little weird stopping the flow virtually to ask about mechanics and things and I feel like I would be like if we were in person I'd be like hold on what is this? What are we doing? Who are we?
00:42:32
Speaker
So, yeah, I am still kind of lost. You can probably tell, but I do try to edit most of it out, Trevor. I try to paint you in the best light you give me. Good. Yeah, I will say I've never once heard about a released episode, Trevor. So. Yeah, so I don't know if it's necessarily difficult, but
00:43:00
Speaker
I'm learning at a different level, I guess, than I would if we were sitting around a table. I will say of all the tabletop RPGs in existence, I don't think there is a short list that goes past Genesis in systems that are not that do not flourish in a virtual environment more like Genesis is so, so much different around a table compared to what we've been doing for this campaign.
00:43:29
Speaker
And so, yeah, I think I know that I had seen you guys play it at the the con. And I mean, you guys would roll a dice, look at it and be like, oh, we got this. And I was like, you do who what? And so I like the virtual, like, not an app, the website where you see. Yeah, that just says, OK, you got two successes and one failure or whatever it was. Yeah.
00:43:53
Speaker
Yeah, but you'll know the rules so much better when you start actually having to interpret the dice. Yeah, that is also true. Plus, it's cheating, Trevor. Stop cheating. I remember my first game or nation con, I sat down with some guys to play something and the fella next to me, really nice guy, I wish I could remember his name, but he, I rolled and I had the, yeah, that's right.
00:44:15
Speaker
I had the Genesis generic system dice and I rolled and I just kind of turned I was like it's been a while since I've looked at these which one's this and he's an ffg guy he goes oh I don't speak those dice I was like all right I guess we'll figure it out together because for those who don't know they have different symbols and they're just alike enough that it could be confusing yeah
00:44:37
Speaker
Well, I'd totally prefer to be around the table as opposed to this, what we're doing here. I just, I don't know. I just like being in close proximity. I like seeing all of the body language when I, you know, when Phillip goes, Oh my God, what did he do?
00:44:55
Speaker
I just like to see it all, not just a face. I have a lot of D&D body language. That's fair. It is easier to know exactly who somebody's looking at when they make a disappointed face as opposed to just down the barrel of the camera and wondering if it's you. I mean, it's just like, I mean, everyone who's listening to this has been on a Zoom call in the last year and has also been in a real in-person workplace, school or meeting.
00:45:22
Speaker
And the engagement is stronger in person. And as long as it's safe to do so, it's obviously preferable to be in person. So we are very much. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing I'm going to hate about being in person is what you chair. That's true. That that's one. But what I was already alluded to is I do like it when the dice answer everything for me. Yeah. Make the world. There's the answer.
00:45:51
Speaker
the feel of dice falling out of your hand and the sound of them hitting the table this is true genesis you get you get the handful like so many dice you just roll nine dice at once yeah so well i know that virtually i'm at a lot uh lower level of being physically assaulted
00:46:07
Speaker
That's also true. If I would have done the Vigo rant and pointed in Jeff's face in person, I might have had to go buy new glasses the next day. I think we all know that if you had done the Vigo rant, you wouldn't have pointed in Jeff's face in person. Not out of any sense of fear of Jeff, but because you knew that was going to upset me and you wouldn't do that to me in person.
00:46:30
Speaker
So anyway. Okay. So in person is better. In person is always better. So leopard asks, she wants to know from Philip, what is Eris's treat to myself day going? This is a great question. Gonna look like in order to recover from the utter soul crushing, terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day she is having today.
00:46:53
Speaker
Well, unsurprisingly, Eris would spend the day making something, and then she would mix it into Viggo's drink. I thought you were going to say implants it under Viggo's desk there.
00:47:09
Speaker
Sometimes I feel like Philip is in is orchestrating that Eris is making us go on the run at some point Like well guys, I mean really there's only one option now, huh, huh, right? I Mean Eris Eris obviously relaxes by making stuff and fiddling with things she Would probably
00:47:39
Speaker
try to... I guess I've established this about Eris. She would probably try to go back down to the cogs and go
00:47:49
Speaker
go hear a band play at a D.A.R. tavern. Because she doesn't get to do that as much as she wants to. So music and making things would probably be a big part of it. Honestly, at this point, it's going to involve solitude. Totally. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, if she could poison Vigo at the end of that day, it would be better.
00:48:19
Speaker
Jerry asks, most important question, no offense to other valid questions.
Character Identity and Humor
00:48:24
Speaker
Jerry, how disappointed is everyone that Posey's name isn't Posey? I said off the air that I painted myself into a real baby Yoda situation.
00:48:41
Speaker
I can't tell you what her name is right now. I'm not disappointed that her name is not Posey. I will probably still have a hard time not referring to her as Posey out of character.
00:48:59
Speaker
I think I would have been disappointed if her name would have been Posey. Yeah. My name's Posey. The biggest thing is I never held any illusions that he was going to have her be named Posey after we had called her to calling her that. Now, I can't remember if we ever called her that in character or if it was only out of character. Because if we ever did in character, I'm not going to look it up either. Or go back and listen. But if we ever did do it in character, I think that we would probably continue to do it when she wasn't around. But yeah.
00:49:29
Speaker
Uh, Posey was very, very funny. Posey was a really funny, serendipitous moment that I'm glad we all got to have together, uh, including all of you wonderful listeners. But yes, her name is Aransas. Dis-um-think. And...
00:49:47
Speaker
Yeah, we all heard me say it, and that is great. Okay, leopard. I like this one, leopard. Fire in all cylinders. If Eris accidentally lacerated her arm, would she think about replacing it with a robotic arm before going to a healer?
00:50:06
Speaker
So I will answer this question in the spirit it was given. Yes, of course, Eris would consider making her own prosthetic. And now I will answer it more literally than it's probably intended. No, Eris is not going to self-amputate. Like, Eris is not competent to amputate her own arm before and then make a prosthetic to install. Eris would need to go to a healer
00:50:31
Speaker
before she could think about doing that. But I mean, yes, if Eris lost her arm, I mean, honestly, just yes, Eris would think of after the horrible trauma that would be involved in that, Eris would think of all the cool things she could make as a prosthesis. But
00:50:52
Speaker
In addition to her interest in that area of an artifice, I have no idea what the cost is, but the cost of getting House Gerasco to regrow an arm. I mean, that's a restoration. No, it's not. It's shoot. It's like regrowth or something or regeneration or something like that.
00:51:20
Speaker
Anyway, it's a very high level spell that would be super expensive. Uh, and that regenerate, that's the name of the spell. And it is indeed D terms, uh, seventh level.
00:51:35
Speaker
Which would require some real components too. Dust for 12 diamonds or whatever. A handful of people on the continent capable of doing that. And they're all off fighting dragons, not repairing one.
00:51:51
Speaker
Not having the heal spell on Eris, I'm not deeply familiar with its intricacies. I'm sure there is some level of the heal spell that would allow you to regenerate a lost body part, or probably there is, but I assume that, like regenerate, it would be pretty intense in the difficulty. I wonder, has Eris ever thought
00:52:15
Speaker
While certainly not impossible, it would be much more difficult to create a prosthetic arm with only one arm. I should probably go ahead and get started on this preemptively, just in case. I don't think she has, but she's probably had that thought. I'm sure that Eris has all sorts of interesting thoughts about Olive's rig and the immense usefulness of that.
00:52:46
Speaker
And so Eris would probably require some assistance in building a new hand for herself. The built-in knife blade of which she would use to kill Viggo. Man. I mean, I appreciate that you stand in her truth whether anybody asked or not.
00:53:10
Speaker
Well, just don't get a one hundred and one to one hundred and five on a critical injury. You don't got to worry about it. Fair enough. That's all right. Lose the limb. So. Oh, wow. That's that's not. That's surprisingly. That's surprisingly reachable. You only have to have one critical injury already to have that or vicious or vicious. Oh, my gosh. I'm much more concerned about this now.
00:53:38
Speaker
Richard asks, he says, I may have missed it, but was the group that jumped Milo part of House Thrash, or were they security for the warehouse? Or did Eric not say, and it's a mystery for another time. I think I said their desk, which is the rival, one of the rival gangs to Boromar. Yeah. I mean, the beef going on with House Deneth and House Thrash, it's that but the criminal underworld of the
00:54:05
Speaker
Proper criminal organization and then the monstrous criminal organization. So yeah, although they are I Don't know. Maybe we don't know this I'm never sure how much we know because we have we're a part of a gang that has a beef with them. Yeah, they are also out of They do also deal with with quote-unquote monstrous races. Yeah, which is probably where the I
00:54:33
Speaker
mix up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, so yeah, they, they just saw Milo is a known associate of Boromar and has been for a long time. So they saw a Boromar boy wandering around in their turf and kicked him in the back. So, all right.
00:54:47
Speaker
Okay, Richard has another question and an Irene follow up that I need to pull up. Okay, so Richard has another question. I always thought that sending stones were rocks with magic runes, but Eris was essentially trying to hack the stone. Could you explain how this would work? Does a sending stone have circuitry or was hack more of a metaphor for messing with the
Magic Items and Technology Interpretation
00:55:07
Speaker
runes? And Irene kind of follows up on that. In fact, she begins continuing from Richard's question.
00:55:14
Speaker
It sounds like you and the players were envisioning those stones functioning more like video security camera system. She actually asked this question after I had said that during this recording. Where are you, Irene? Your Google target marketing. Did you consider creating a different magical item crystal shard or doohickey to do that? And I would like to start off by saying, criminal lack of doohickey so far in this campaign.
00:55:42
Speaker
Excuse me. Oh, those are Aeris's entire wheelhouse is doohickeys. How dare you sell Aeris short. Those are not doohickeys. Those are apparati. Who's the what's-its? So, I mean, once again, the terminology got flipped. I did use the term scrying stones because I did want to distinguish them from a sending stone, which is auditory, and make it something that was visual and
00:56:08
Speaker
auditory. So it was something different from a sending stone. And yeah, I mean, Richard, if I'm being perfectly honest, when I described them, I thought they were rocks with runes on them also. But then Philip rolled really well and said, hey, can I pull a component out of it? Yeah. So then the the appearance of them shifted based on the dice, which is is Genesis. I mean, that like
00:56:37
Speaker
And you know, we went back and forth on what that looked like, obviously. Sure. Well, and any product of I mean, they're a product of artifice. So inevitably, because what we've got is a magic item that perpetually scribes. So this is like a artifact level magic item. This is an awesome thing. And.
00:56:59
Speaker
The sort of Eberron assumption that I work off of with Eris is anything that is a complex magic item, especially if it's made by a house, is made up with schema. And so I was imagining how I was accessing it, which I tend to imagine Eris
00:57:24
Speaker
When she's trying to mess with magic, Eris sees the matrix, essentially, like Eris sees the magic of the spell and fiddles with the spell itself. But we had the triumph, I wanted a component, so we decided there was a panel. Yeah.
00:57:43
Speaker
And in terms of Irene's question of why not just make something else, I like the idea of magic rocks being stuck everywhere. And I like the idea of the simplicity of it. So that's why I went with what I did.
00:58:01
Speaker
Yep. Yeah. And I think this is a universal thing, especially when you're playing. I mean, if you're playing high fantasy, maybe not so much. But in a setting like this, I think it's kind of a universal thing that you round off to the nearest current object for what a thing does. I mean, sure. Sending stones are a bad example because everybody immediately turns them into walkie talkies, which is essentially what they're designed to be anyway.
00:58:25
Speaker
But yeah, it's crying stone. It's a camcorder now. The little green discs, they're puffer boards. The boats are cars. It's what we do. Big boats are trucks. Big boats are trucks. Dogs are boys. Cats are girls. I don't know what else. OK. And our last question for this one is from Becca, who hits it out of the park again with a totally not related to anything question that she just wants to know.
00:58:55
Speaker
What of the more obscure kitchen utensils would each character use the most? Things for example like a zester or mezzaluna. Does anyone know what a mezzaluna is? I don't know what any obscure utensils are so I don't know that I can even answer that. A mezzaluna is the herb chopper that is the semicircle with multiple blades that you rock.
00:59:23
Speaker
on the counter to cut herbs into strips or whatever, greens. I actually don't like basil in this. I just, I did the first two things that popped into my head and both of them involve eggs and one of them is real and one of them is just dumb. But I think that Hob has, I think Hob eats a lot of eggs. He sees it as reasonably cruelty free and high in protein.
00:59:51
Speaker
but he also finds them boring. So he got Eris to make him a sharon equivalent of, you guys know what a golden scrambler is?
01:00:02
Speaker
Is that the thing that shakes the egg before? It does not shake it for much like much like tinsel versus shearing strength. Centrifugal force is the only way to break an egg yolk inside the shell. It spins that mofo real fast. I used to do it with a long sleeve t-shirt. I would put it in the sleeve and whip it up like hard boiled scrambled eggs, which sounds disgusting to me. No, it's perfect. It's perfect. Golden eggs are the best.
01:00:27
Speaker
But so he got a golden egg scrambler. And then after he hard-boiled them, and this is a real thing, and you can look it up, just for funsies, he takes it and he puts it in an egg cuber.
01:00:39
Speaker
Oh my god. And that is exactly what it sounds like. It is you put a warm hard boiled egg into the egg cuber and it's like you torture rack down a little screw part and it turns it from an ovoid into a cube. Hard boiled eggs are the one of the easiest things to quickly make for a meal and Hob has turned it into the most like difficult
01:01:01
Speaker
Elaborate procedure. Okay, first off the golden scrambler takes seconds. It's on the box All right Secondly, the egg cuber I already said was a joke, but yes, I do have one I have has reduced his meal to protein cubes. Yes. Yes yellow protein and I make a castle and I siege and I eat and
01:01:27
Speaker
Because he, with Hob's size, he needs that many eggs to maintain that muscle mass. Look, when he was a lad, you know, he only ate four dozen eggs. And so this thing that Eris has made is big enough to do a dozen eggs at a time.
01:01:44
Speaker
Yeah. So it's a long, it's, it's long and thin and you can open it up and you can put three or four eggs in at once. Thank you all so much for listening. Uh, I've been here. Hey, this ain't your show, bub. I run this party. Apparently it's Guy Fieri's. You know what? Okay. I'll just stop answering questions. I guess. Harris's obscuring utensils. Harris has
01:02:08
Speaker
Aeris has made one of those things that you could buy on a late night infomercial that slices, dices, and julienne's all at the same time. So Aeris has some sort of contraption that just will do any kitchen function. Nice. I don't know why, but I feel like Raynar just likes to sit back in a chair and peel things.
01:02:39
Speaker
Peeler just just a potato peeler Not if he's asked to If someone needs to peel potatoes, he doesn't even doesn't even eat him himself. He just has a whole bunch of stubby peels
01:02:56
Speaker
Yeah, Milo's got nothing. Milo eats peas off of a knife. I mean, that's... Milo has possession. That's so hard. You do it with honey. Is it Octon Ash or Shel Silverstein? You guys don't know. Why am I saying that?
01:03:16
Speaker
Sorry, I hate to make assumptions. Do you guys know if that's an Ogden Asher self-serve steam poem? You eat your beefs with honey? I've done it all my life. Makes the pace more funny, but it keeps them on the knife. Anyway, Milo actually has possession of a lot of kitchen gadgets, I think. He just has no idea what Kylie used to do with these things. Exactly. Love it. He uses a mezzoluna, but he just uses it to cut butter. That's right.
01:03:43
Speaker
pretty good man uses a zester to grate cheese real finely grated cheese melts before it hits the plate he thinks he has used a splatter screen as a fly swatter and it works fine so if it ain't broke all right well this mother just stands there and watches him with just the saddest eyes
01:04:06
Speaker
As long as Becca keeps sending me questions like this, I will keep asking them at the end of episodes to just absolutely derail everything right before we say goodbye. So thank you, Becca. You provided an invaluable service for my mental health.
01:04:21
Speaker
And that'll do it for us. You will find us on all the social medias at the Geek Pantheon. That's Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok. Eric Streams on Twitch at the Geek Pantheon as well. Eric, tell us the nights and days, the times. Tuesday nights at 8 p.m. Central. Sunday mornings at 8 a.m. Central. And then in the near future, it will also be Thursday nights. All right. At 8 p.m. Central.
01:04:44
Speaker
There you go. In addition, Philip is the DM for Kyber Shards, our YouTube show that is 5th edition D&D set also in Eberron, but in Stormreach.
01:04:57
Speaker
And I believe that's everything. Come get on our Discord. There's a link at geekpantheon.com. There are links on our Facebook pages, and I have to assume the other social medias that we have. It's a blast. And I have a feeling we're going to reach a conclusion in the next set of episodes that we do. So make sure to get your questions in three episodes from now. We got another one of these coming. Here we go. Goodbye. I'm Jeff.
01:05:27
Speaker
I'm Philip. I'm Trevor. I'm Randy. And I'm Eric. Bye. Bye. See you next time.