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Lobbing Scorchers Live: Josh Atencio to the Colorado Rapids (Feat. Niko Moreno, Jeremiah Oshan, Tim Foss)
111 Plays1 hour ago
The Colorado Rapids have acquired midfielder Josh Atencio from the Seattle Sounders, per sources. Seattle will receive $1.3m GAM + add-ons. Atencio will remain a U-22 initiative player for Colorado. Source: Tom Bogert of GiveMeSport and Soccerwise.
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Lobbing Scorchers is a Seattle Sounders and MLS focused show brought to you by Sounder at Heart. Hosted by Major League Soccer's Ari Liljenwall and Producer Noah Riffe. Join us as we lob our scorching takes on the American soccer landscape, Seattle Sounders, Major League Soccer, USMNT and more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of lobbing scorchers was previously recorded and streamed live on youtube dot.com slash at lobbing scorchers If you want to listen or catch these episodes live see the video and see all the rest of our content go to youtube dot.com slash at lobbing scorchers or lobbing scorchers.com slash youtube Well, sir, we got a scorcher today. Gonna be a real scorcher today. Why the scorcher today? Well, it's gonna be a scorcher.
Breaking News: Josh Atencio Trade
00:00:43
Speaker
Ari, oh my God, what is happening? This is the first ever emergency stream from Lobbing Scorchers. It's a Saturday. it is it is we We were actually literally just together working on a secret project. And lo and behold, I scroll down on my phone and what do I see? I see a Tom bomb. I see a goddamn Tom bomb, Ari. Phil, was what's happening? This is a Bogue bomb. This is officially a Bogue bomb.
00:01:10
Speaker
Like you said, we were just going about our Saturday, minding our own business. ah Definitely not planning on ah doing a show today. ah But then the man himself, Tom Boggs, he hits us with this. He hits us with this bad boy regarding the Seattle Sounders. Loading. Oops. Tom, it's like it's Saturday, dude. It's not where it goes. There it is. Hold on. Boom. Josh Atencio traded.
00:01:40
Speaker
to the Colorado rapids, according to Tom Bogue sources. Compensation. Seattle will receive $1.3 million dollars in fake money, plus add-ons. Sources say Atencio will hit the rapids roster via the U22 initiative. um So this is a this is a low-key blockbuster, folks. $1.3 million.
00:02:03
Speaker
in fake money. I mean, that's a lot of fake money. um And Noah, this was this was unexpected. like I do not think of Atencio as on the block at all. Craig Wyops had been talking about how excited they were at their prospect of moving him to center back.
00:02:22
Speaker
ah He said he felt like they had the perfect he had the perfect skill set for that position and that they were really bullish on his potential there. We talked extensively, I would say, about how that could increase his value playing a more premium position like that. But I don't think either one of us figured that he was going to get traded. No, not even this season, let alone before this season even started. So, I mean,
00:02:51
Speaker
Not even close, but ah there's just a lot of implications to this. Seattle has a lot more fake money now, and it frees a U-22 spot. Atencio was on a U-22 spot, and they already had one free because Leo Chu got traded.
00:03:09
Speaker
So yeah there are ah there are are things that they can do. I mean, I was just ah talking to the ah to the guys in the Sounder at Heart group chat who were talking about maybe ah moving Obed to a U22 deal before he before he gets transferred. ah They're obviously, Craig Wives already said they were going to sign the chew replacement probably in the next window.
00:03:33
Speaker
Uh, but, uh, I mean, as much as anything right now, what's going through my mind is just, uh, you know, I'd been going into this season thinking of attention as a ah player who was going to get a fair amount of minutes. You know, uh, he was deep on the depth chart, but.
00:03:55
Speaker
In this league, like i don't feel I feel like you're never deep on the depth chart. like He was going to get no run this year. But I think something to ah to consider here is we don't know the player's perspective on this. For all we know, Josh Atencio could have been looking at it and been like, I'm not going to get the run here that I need to progress.
00:04:18
Speaker
the way that I feel like I can and and should in my career and going to a team like the rapids where he, I mean, they are going to give him minutes. He's going to play a lot for them. ah These two teams have already done something similar to this with the Danny Lave alone, remember? Yeah, I do. Now, po I mean, 1.3 million of game The Colorado rapids aren't dropping that unless they're planning on, I mean, that's like a border borderline, like they see him as a cornerstone type money. I'll be interested to see if they keep him switched at CB or if they play him in the midfield. But anyway, big moves. We got Nico ah signing on here. and Let's add Nico. Look at this Nico emergency. We're all here. What's going on? The world's on fire. What's happening?
00:05:10
Speaker
you all emergency stream it It's been a crazy day, man.
Immediate Reactions and Analysis
00:05:15
Speaker
Look, i um I was supposed to be doing some garage stuff, you know, I got like my old manners hat on. I mean, it's terrible. ah But look, I started off the day with, and I'm going to go ahead and break this down because I have to say it, but because Tom is like a big nightmare over my head all the time. Tom Bogart. I mean, man, I not love the guy, but he use scars the the jimmy out of me He's like Ray Lewis coming out and I'm like catching the ball like on a short route and he's just blasting me every time. ah But look, I started the day helping out some guys from El Rey. They wanted me to hop on and talk sounders. So I'm in the middle of this conversation. I'm talking. I'm arguing with these guys because, you know, they think the team is trash and all this on, you know, you know, crazy.
00:05:59
Speaker
And so I get a message and I'm like, there's no way that this happening. So I let him know the head man, I got to go. Uh, let's go ahead and cut it short. There is some news that is developing. I got to go chase down, get off the phone. I'm making sure that I, you know, cross all my T's dot all my eyes, making sure that this stuff is real. Um, and it was, man. Uh, I talked to her boy Jeremiah, of course, cause you know, I always call him to make sure that we get him going in terms of a story for sound or a heart, of course.
00:06:28
Speaker
Uh, but all in all, this is what I've heard so far. There were at least four other teams interested in Josh attention. Uh, they hit phones pretty hard. Uh, two real big contenders, especially, but the best deal for both clap and player resulted in, um, Colorado. Obviously, uh, the team gets $1.3 million dollars in Gamm and, uh,
00:06:55
Speaker
If you're wondering why not just a cash transfer and things, GAM is much better for sounders at this time. It gives them a lot more options. It helps them with the cap. um you know If you were to sell Obit for cash, you know that there's a limitation of $3 million that you can use. so Because of everything that could potentially happen in the summer window, plus what Seattle is looking at right now with the books,
00:07:22
Speaker
1.3 million dollars in gamma. It's a lot of money and it gives him a lot of flexibility. So a big time move. Why is it a win-win? Both you, Ari, and the audience know that Joshua Tensio has been dying to get more time, more play time. He had a really good year. He's had moments with the sounders. There's been times where he's been the guy.
00:07:46
Speaker
But he never really broke through being someone that the coaching staff could really rely on. And, you know, it didn't really seem like he had. Yeah. no hundred percent yeah oh past yeah but But there's always been this conversation, right? Danny, over Josh, and it's always been one that's gotten the ah spotlight, if you will, in in in specific seasons.
00:08:12
Speaker
But after Obed hit his, it seems like that was going to be a constant, right? Because Obed gets hurt, and you know he was going to be this guy, and then you move Josh, and Josh gets his time. But when everything went back to normal, it just seemed like Josh wasn't really a guy that was going to be in the midfield consistently. So what did they do this year? They want to move him a linebacker.
00:08:31
Speaker
They want to put him at center back. He has the frame. He has the IQ. He could do it. But look, man, Josh had a hard time just being a six. He wants the ball. He wants to get forward. He wants to shoot outside of the 18 because he has done those attributes. He could do it. So when a player has this DNA, this chip is really difficult for him to just drop a line and say, hey, now I'm even farther from where I want to be. Could he do it? Sure. I mean, I think he has the talent to do it.
00:08:57
Speaker
But I got a sense that he was definitely struggling with some center back things like ah defending in in in space, depending on the the formation, some timing stuff. When you lose a ball dribbling, when you're trying to break through pressure and you lose it in midfield, it's very differently than when you lose it out in the back, you saw that in preseason.
00:09:21
Speaker
So I think that there were some concerns that maybe he wasn't going to be the quick fit for that position. And so they move him. So i'm I'm happy for him. I think he's a very talented player. I think that he's going to go on to be a big contributor for Colorado. And I wish him nothing but the best.
Atencio's Perspective and Career Implications
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, it's this is insane. I mean, I think, you know, when I saw him moving back a line, I was quite surprised, to be honest, that he was going to play in a defensive role. And I think I even noted on the on maybe it was a livestream or a podcast where I said, you know, he's the type of guy who it's kind of nice when you have a center back who can get forward and wants to get forward and push the ball forward, especially in like this pressing form. But I'm interested to know I mean, I don't know how much you know, but like if of this was on his own Pressure or if it was, you know, just kind of deal making but it seems like multiple clubs were interested in this No, I think it was deal making I think that uh Whether you know teams had already been looking at him prior to Marbella or not I mean that that that we can get into and find out a little bit later but I do think that there was an option a possibility and
00:10:32
Speaker
more of the team trying to do right by the player. Maybe they went out and grabbed those phone calls or maybe threw out fillers out there to see how you know that would play it out. But I think that there was a certain sense of that Josh was going to be limited in in minutes. And look, when you have a player like that, you're devaluing him by not playing him, right? So either you sell him now and get him at this cost or you play him and hope that he values himself on the field. so That's why I think that's a, it's a good move. Um, and again, look, this was all going to go into a story, uh, Sandra hard. But again, Tom Boger beat me to the story by like 10 minutes. And ah I had no idea I threw it out there. And then it's like, Oh, he already threw it out. And I knew I feared this guy consistently, but now you get to hear it from us here in Lobbins cultures, of course, part of the Sandra Hart family as well. So, um, fans.
00:11:29
Speaker
From what I'm reading so far, not very happy with the move. A lot of them, of course, seeing Josh Atencio, a local guy, a guy that they thought that he could be really good in the future. but But I really do think that this is a good move for both club and player.
00:11:46
Speaker
I will say yeah not to, uh, not to make you feel bad, but Tom said he broke this scoop while in between touring houses. So he's, he is literally on demon time. Like that dude does not rest. That is insane. That is absolutely insane.
00:12:02
Speaker
so best and Jeremiah was also out of the house. Jeremiah's like, man, I'm out of the house. I'm trying to get back home. You know, we're all, we're all rushing because of Tom. And Tom's just doing his thing yeah on his phone, portable, mobile, you know, office. I mean, does he just walk into this? Is there fumbles anymore? Does he just jump in the bus and come out or is it a closet now? Just you know rips his shirt and turns into the as Superman, bro. You know, I mean, it's crazy, man. I don't know how he does it, man. I i applaud him, man. I'm telling you.
00:12:34
Speaker
yeah So based on what you're saying, Nico, I have kind of a similar read on it it to what Benjamin says here, which is, I think Josh definitely requested this trade. like i I feel like it was a situation where he saw the writing on the wall position change or not that realistically Even if he got some run this year, he was not going to be, ah I don't even know if he was going to see a thousand minutes on this team in league play this year. Colorado, I feel like they might be onto something with this strategy that they started with Danny Leyva of ah pilfering Seattle homegrown midfielders.
00:13:14
Speaker
ah I think 1.3 million. That's a lot of ah a lot of game, but you know, it's fake money and their team that needs they need lynch pins. They need building blocks. So I think it's a good move for them. Like I don't. ah I don't know. Some people might think that's too pricey for a player who's relatively unproven. I've watched Josh attention enough and I watched enough Colorado Rapids last year to know that they can use him for sure. So i I do think there is a. ah a strong likelihood that Josh Atencio himself was was pushing for this move and also I think um
00:13:53
Speaker
This is ultimately part of the utility of the Academy and the youth development system is like part of the reason that you ah are investing so much in that infrastructure is yes, to try and get your O beds and guys who can be stars for the first team for an extended period of time before you sell them on. ah But if you have a situation like this, where you have a player who's developed into a first team talent, but is blocked,
00:14:21
Speaker
uh this is this this is what you can do for me 1.3 million i feel like i don't know if you're craig why it can it it could rise though that's the thing it says there's incentives on top of it yeah yeah know i um predict that that there's a sell-off clause i'm sure that if he was to get so i mean sold seado would would essentially get something of course in return uh so yeah i mean there's still other ways that Seattle can gain
Seattle's Strategy and Future Moves
00:14:51
Speaker
ah out of it. So ah my my concern is, um does this change anything in that ah defensive group? I had heard that, you know, there was possibilities and and things looking into Stuart Hawkins maybe leaving on a loan or something like that. I mean, there's, you know, a lot of ah interesting ah components to the center back position. So, you know, now is it just, are you okay with just Kim Ki-hee?
00:15:17
Speaker
And, you know, Jonathan Bell being those extra guys that sent her back for you. I guess you can still see that later on. It looks like Jeremiah has reported the exact potential add on figures. I'm going to try and pop it up on the screen here so we can, so I don't just like, you know, do it without giving him a little credit here. Niko, do you know or are you able to divulge what other teams were in on the sweepstakes?
00:15:43
Speaker
At this moment, I don't have a great line for it. I do know the teams, but whenever ah I'm very careful with sources and ah this is what you but I'm okay with you sharing, this is what you're not, I'm not okay with you sharing. And that was not part of what, you know, they thought they wanted to share with me. So right now at this time, I won't, but ah maybe later down the line, maybe later down the week.
00:16:04
Speaker
ah We didn't discuss those teams, but yeah, right now I'm just going to say that is at least four teams. I mean, that's a hot commodity in MLS is is four teams, so that's a legitimate sweepstakes and they ended up getting over over a million plus add-ons for him. Safe to assume this means Stu Hawks outplayed him in preseason. I see. I really don't know if it's about anything like that. I think it's about um the fact that he feels like he At this point in his career he feels like he needs to be getting regular first team minutes and that just that wasn't going to happen here it wasn't so it's definitely his presence on the roster was one of the things that contributed to.
00:16:49
Speaker
how much depth we feel like the team has. But I do think there's now an interesting conversation to be had about what exactly they're going to do with ah the flexibility that this gives them. ah Two U22 spots now open. mistaken Three. Three, right? No, so that that's a good one. I was able to get some confirmation on that. There is two spots open, but one is going to be used in Either Obed or Josh is gone now obviously, but you know it's going to be used within the Sounders roster. The other one they're going to use. So yes, there is two, but they're not going to use that other one. Everything I've heard so far is that they're only going to use that one U22 to bring in a player. The other one is going to be a way to handle cap space and things of that nature. So are they going to? Is the idea they're going to mo move Obed onto a U22 deal before they transfer? him
00:17:47
Speaker
I wouldn't call it. That's the plan. But I would say that that is my ah impression. Yeah, my professional. What is it called? Like a hypothesis, right? It's just an educated guess based on everything that I've heard, you know, found out, talked to several people. I think that Look, there's going to be a need to, in my opinion, there's going to be a need to sign over, it perhaps, ah you know, to to more money, right? I mean, he he could potentially force for that, ah even if you're thinking about letting him go in the in in the summer or so. So I don't know. I just the think that there are there are some things in the books that might change from here to the summer. Let's just say that.
00:18:28
Speaker
I will show real quick. If you guys do want your message to be read for sure, you can always drop a super chat and we will make sure that gets read. Nico's time here is limited. So if you guys do have any questions that you really, really want answered by ah the true insider, we're just two podcasters. That's the true insider down there. ah you do you You guys are the popular ones, man. now I love the show, man. I love it, man. People are just digging it, man. I'm i'm excited to be part part of it now. You know what I mean?
00:18:56
Speaker
Oh, there's Super Chat. Here we go. Super Chat from Ian. Think our record sale is still OBA at 2.7 million. I know this trade is not a sale, but 1.3 million Garber Bucks is relatively big deal. it's I think it's the seventh or eighth biggest ah GAM trade ever. If you had asked me how much they could get for him on the trade market within the league like before this, I don't think I would have i don't think i would have said 1.3 Yeah, I mean, would you have even said a million? Like, I don't know. I wouldn't I would have thought, you know, like between seven hundred, seven fifty. in yeah That's And that was my number just based on potential and vest and versatility based on the profile of the player. Yeah, that that's what I would say. But when you're talking about a guy that, again, doesn't have consistent minutes and ah you were going into the season, perhaps not knowing where he was going to play for you and teams are figuring that out as well.
00:19:52
Speaker
i i have no I had no idea he could go this high to be honest. so i'm I'm surprised at the number that they sold them on. i I rate him personally as that level of player, but like when I was thinking about what his value would be,
00:20:08
Speaker
League wide he to me. It's a situation where he really He played he played a fair a fair amount like he made 111 appearances ah But it was mostly in spot duty He was playing a lot for a while and then ah like we were talking about Obed passed him so I think if we're if we're looking at it purely on the financial terms 1.3 million game plus add-ons um I understand it's tough, like he's a homegrown guy, popular player, had looked legitimately good to very good at times when he had played. I do think when you have that much money on the table with the depth at to in at both position groups, really, i I see the logic for why Craig Wybbs took it, I do.
00:21:00
Speaker
No, 100%. I mean, any of us would have taken it. And look, Josh is a guy that he does a little bit of the dirty work, right? He does a lot of the stuff that's not intangible in stats, not intangible in so many ways where you know, gambling goes attributed to. So man, I think this is great business by the Sounders again. ah And again, I think Colorado is also going to benefit a lot out of having a guy like him and, you know, the potential and essentially the the future of your franchise is, you know, but pretty well out there. If you think that he's a guy that's going to be able to come in and not just be a starter, but maybe be a starter for years to come. But what about midfield though? Right now, midfield,
00:21:43
Speaker
that depth, you know, are we as excited? Are we as confident there right now? I mean, everybody, ah you know, you heard my Nico ideas. I don't know if that's foreseeable or not. I mean, I think that they're, they talked to Oscar Pereja last week and he mentioned, yeah, you know, the MLS ah windows open. He's a guy that's getting a lot of looks, a lot of teams they are interested. So, you know,
00:22:08
Speaker
I would love for it to be Seattle, but I don't know if they would go ahead and bring him. And if they don't, he's definitely going to go somewhere within MLS because there's a lot of interest for him. But right now, I mean, obviously Obed and Christian are your guys, but if you're going to get rid of Christian here coming forward,
00:22:25
Speaker
Now, are you obligated to go get a U-22 center midfielder? I don't know, man. I still would love to go for the striker. And that's why maybe bringing in a guy that would just help you there. I know Bernal, they're very high on IQ wise, positioning wise. Sebastian Gomez, they didn't really see enough of, but I know that they were high on him as well. So there could be also a possibility of one of those guys just being brought up.
00:22:51
Speaker
Let's talk about the CB group. Cameron says, if you've got four start-up quality CBs and Yymoye, Regan, Bell, Kim, 1.6 plus 20% salon for depth, CB is great. Get a nice deal for a tensio, do right by the player and get a fifth CB cheaply.
00:23:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean so. Yeah, more Reagan Bell Kim and then you've got Stu Hawks and Leo Bernie as your developmental players there. So that's why like when they were talking about moving him to CB kind of my first question was where where do the minutes
Colorado Rapids' Plans for Atencio
00:23:24
Speaker
come from? Like I understood what Craig wives was saying about his skill set and range of passing and like physical profile like making sense and all that. um But it just.
00:23:36
Speaker
it felt It felt like there wasn't going to be a lot of opportunity for him to get run. And I think it's pretty clear that that's the way he saw it too. Someone said, knew who's in that group as well. In this 3-5-2, they've been running, yeah. So it's just the log jams group. But I definitely like, ah I understand the ah sentiment of surprise.
00:23:59
Speaker
because i If you'd asked me any player on the roster that was likely to go on an interleague trade before the season started, I guess I probably would have said him because there's not a lot of like or yeah he would be among the candidates because there's not like that many logical candidates. But ah still, I was I was surprised to see it. Yeah, 100 percent. I because there had been such an emphasis on like working with him and making sure that he, you know, got in some sort of way on the field for you.
00:24:31
Speaker
That's why I was a little bit surprised at first, but now after getting out the context on it and all the background information and even as much as this week when again I had heard that. He was struggling a bit with the move to center back. You know it makes sense to just do right by the player where he can go out there play where he wants to play and I'm sure that they threw out those fillers and when those numbers started popping up and that many teams were interested. I mean it was just a no brainer.
00:25:00
Speaker
We got Jeremiah. We got Jeremiah in here. Should we make this? Let's let's add him all up. Are you ready, Jeremiah? Give us a thumbs up. All right. Oh, four quad box. It's a quad box. This is not a quad box. This is called a quad pod. Quad pod. Jeremiah O'Shan, sounder at heart, overlord. bachman How are you? Josh attention to the Colorado Rapids. One point three million plus add ons. What do you think, Jeremiah? How are you feeling?
00:25:30
Speaker
I mean, i I like Josh a lot, both as a player and as a person, frankly. i so And it's always tough. you know This is the guy who's been at the with the Academy since he was 14. So someone who really, literally grew up in the Academy. And so I think from that level, it's it's tough.
00:25:49
Speaker
And I really like him as a player. I think he has a lot of potential. But I think the reality is that, for better or for worse, I don't know if the coaching staff rated him as highly as, well, I think there was maybe some disagreement in the coaching staff as to where he he belonged on the depth chart. And you can see that in just the decision to try to move him to to center back, right? Like if he was, if they saw him as an elite, a potentially elite,
00:26:18
Speaker
number eight, they wouldn't move them to move them back on the field. And, you know, I think he showcased some of his potential at center back. But like Nico was saying, I think there was a reality setting in that it was going to be a transition period and that he wasn't, you know, right now he's probably the fifth, maybe even the sixth guy on the totem pole when it comes to center back depth. And he was the guy who's 23 years old. He's already made his US national team debut.
00:26:52
Speaker
you know He needs to be playing. you know If you're Josh Atencio, you need to be getting on the field. You can't be you know spending a year at this point in your career just developing. and In as many minutes as the Sounders had to go around this year, if they want to be competitive, they were gonna probably they were facing a reality where they were going to have to deal with growing pains. right they were This is a player who hasn't played a lot of center back throughout his career you know he i think he had you know he's he had like six starts there as a 19 year old as an 18 year old with defiance you know he maybe had a half dozen appearances there in mls
00:27:33
Speaker
i And there was a reality that he just probably wasn't gonna get a lot of MLS minutes or first team minutes right now. So you add that all together and if they're getting a, this is a good offer. you know they're They're getting 1.3 million in GAM. My understanding is they're getting like another $300,000 in add potential add-ons, which might not hit right away. It might not hit for a year or two. and And then they also have a 20% sell on percentage.
00:28:03
Speaker
So you know you add that off, that's a lot of money. And I and i think one of the maybe you guys have already gotten into this. But one of the nuances here is that if they had sold him for, let's just say, $2 or $3 million dollars in cash within the league, that any money that you convert from cash to GAM counts against your $3 million dollar total that you can convert in a year. And this doesn't count against that conversion.
00:28:29
Speaker
So they can actually go out and sell Obed Vargas for $10 million dollars and they can still convert all $3 million of that into Gamm. Jeremiah, before this deal went down, if someone had asked you what you felt like Atencio's market value would be within MLS on the in the trade market, like where where roughly would you have
Trade Comparisons and League Impact
00:28:52
Speaker
landed? We were talking about it and ah kind of came to the conclusion that 1.3 is quite a bit higher than we would have pegged it.
00:29:01
Speaker
Uh, I, I think it's hard. I think it's hard to say right now what the market is because the cash market is really messing with, like, I don't think we, we have a real good understanding of the conversion of cash to gam and how that, and like the opportunity cost and everything else. And so I think it's tough because, you know, you look at what the rapids paid for, uh, the Pietro, uh,
00:29:28
Speaker
I can't remember the guy, the good guy they just picked up from DC. And I think they paid something like 1.2 million in cash for him. And attention was a more accomplished player than DPHO is. And they got as much GAM as they got, you know, cash. So that that feels, you know, it feels about right. I wouldn't say it's it's way beyond what I'm trying to think of recent, you know, ah New England paid something like 2.3 million to get ah Leo Campana. This is obviously a different, you know, he plays a very different position. It's a different equation. The Sounders paid 1.3 million for Jesus Ferreira. So in that sense, it seems like a, I mean, that seems like a really good deal when you compare it to that, right? Yeah. Yeah. yeah and oh Go for it. No, no.
00:30:25
Speaker
I just wanted to say that I am going to have to be leaving here in a second, but I actually got a message right now. I might be able to drop something again tomorrow for another move, not sound related, but just one that ah that I'm kind of that I've been working on there. I might know which one I'm talking about. But yeah, we we will be continuing to just.
00:30:48
Speaker
Talk to obviously the the fans will be out here. We love his courtiers, of course, with Jeremiah and Azarietes. I'm always just happy to hop on with you guys consistently and being part of this wonderful center of our family. But hope everybody has a good Saturday. I'm Addy here and I'll see you guys later on this week. Make sure to go follow, make sure to go follow Nico. We dropped his links in the chat. Nico Moreno.
00:31:14
Speaker
Shout out as always. Appreciate his time. um All right, I had a depth that depth that a defensive midfield look like now with this move. Let's talk about that a little bit, because I do think there ah is going to be. I think right now that position group is looking solid, but. um I mean, Obed is getting transferred in the summer in all likelihood. So, I mean, and now with this move, it might be thinning out a little bit, but I mean, as it stands. Jeremiah will be back, everyone. Don't worry. Jeremiah's coming back. um As it stands, there's a Obed and Christian as your first choice, double pivot. Then you got JP, I think, first off the ah first on the list as ah rotating in. And then you got Danny Leyva.
00:32:07
Speaker
um is there like what Is there much more to the crew right now as we go into the season, Noah? i don't I don't know. I don't know. So that's where it becomes like an interesting candidate for when we're talking about how they're going to use this U22 slot. Jeremiah, let's bring you back in here. I guess what are your thoughts on the ah on the new roster flexibility that this gives them as far as U22 spots?
00:32:40
Speaker
and ah Is your understanding similar to Nico in that ah his impression is that Obed Vargas is going to be used for one of those U22 spots and then the other one for someone? Yeah, that that seems to be, so I mean, technically they have three U20, I'm sure Nico said this, but they they technically have three open U22 spots. If I were to guess, one of those is earmarked for an international They only have one international roster spot right now. although you know one point They essentially have 1.5 million in Gamm flexibility or roster flexibility now because it's 1.3 in Gamm, which I don't know if it's all coming this year or not. But either way, like they have some and then they have $200,000 of his cap hit that they they pull off their cap.
00:33:28
Speaker
ah so One of those spots is going to be used on an international, I'm sure. Danny Leyva technically could use be put onto to one of those spots because he makes more than $200,000. That's not a huge savings, but they, you know, it's something that they could, they could add in if they wanted to. And then Obed Vargas does make a lot of sense. I don't have any.
00:33:51
Speaker
particular insight in beyond like logic and and sort of like reading the tea leaves. I haven't heard anything about like a contract offer being on the table for them, but it makes a lot of sense. right like Whether or not they are planning on transferring them, it makes sense to pay them to get them under contract now. i mean Maybe it's like a $500,000 or $600,000 contract,
00:34:14
Speaker
and that you know And that sort of does him a solid of raising the bar for what he can expect with his next contract. It puts some money in his pocket, obviously, and it doesn't really hurt the sounders from a cap perspective. Obviously, they got to come up with some cash to pay them. But ah they you know it's it makes I think it makes a lot of sense for them to assign OBED to ah to a U-22.
00:34:38
Speaker
And it also gives him the flexibility where, you know, Reed Baker Whiting right now probably doesn't need a U22 contract. He's hurt, but he is in the last he's in the last year of his contract. And yeah the the worst thing the sounders could do is let him run his contract out until the summer. And and then he's free to go where he can essentially sign a pre contract anywhere he wants. And then you risk losing him for basically nothing at that point.
00:35:07
Speaker
So, ah but again, they might not have to give him a full U-22 contract, but they do need to get him re-signed one way or the other. I mean, even if, you know, he's 19, yes, he's hurt. Yes, this has been a constant struggle for him to stay healthy, but he's still a player who has really high potential and who foreign scouts- Man City's scouted.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah, Liverpool's got outed. I mean, like he's liverpool training with ah with a team with a team in Germany just last ah or yeah, I guess that's been a while ago now. But I mean, this is a player that foreign scouts are aware of and that they like. And you know if he's available on a free, I guarantee someone's going to pick him up. So.
00:35:47
Speaker
you know These are all things that I'm sure they're considering. I don't have any great insight into an impending move like tomorrow. But again, I think the i saw the question about there being a the short-term depth. I don't know how big of a deal it is from that perspective because the reality was the Sounders weren't putting them in their defensive midfield depth chart. They had essentially j JP and Danny Leyva ahead of him for now because they were going through this position conversion. And then at center back,
00:36:16
Speaker
It goes, you know, there are three starting center backs are obviously new who Reagan and Yemar. And then after him, it goes, you know, John Bell is in there. ah Kim Kihei is probably in there. Stuart Hawkins is probably in there.
Depth Chart and Development Views
00:36:30
Speaker
I mean, he might he might have been seventh, frankly, on the on the depth chart at center back. Now, I think there is the the potential that he could have been second, you know,
00:36:40
Speaker
soon, ah potentially, if things went well. But I think what this was an indication was, is that a realization that the that he wasn't going to get to second like in the next month or two.
00:36:53
Speaker
We have another Sounder at Heart special guest appearance. We've got Tim Foss, Tim Foss in the queue. We're gonna bring him in right now. join Make this a quad pod. we were ah We were firing off on the group chat about our reactions to the trade. Tim had some takes. I said, you should come ah you should come dish these on stream. There he is, everybody. This is Tim Foss, Sounder at Heart writer, Sounder's cover extraordinaire.
00:37:20
Speaker
Tim, thanks for jumping on. Let's jump right into this. Why don't you ah go ahead and just give us the first reaction that popped into your head when you saw this Josh Atencio trade and um how you're feeling about it now that you've had a few minutes to process it.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, first of all, just excited to make my loving scorcher's debut. It's a lifelong dream, long time, first time, you know. ah i I think I skidded something of all along the lines of no, no, God, no, fuck, no. um Letting it cook a little bit longer, you know, I love Josh. i think he's a great player really good personality um to Jeremiah's points unfortunately at this point at the moment he was buried on the depth chart with certainly potential to climb that depth chart over the course of the season but
00:38:24
Speaker
I get it, that return in GAM with it potentially escalating to a little over 1.5 million in GAM and a salon, that's certainly not a not a small chunk of change to be able to augment the roster and add to the team going forward with you know the possibility for immediate impact signings.
00:38:53
Speaker
um i I think looking at the rapids, it seems like he could reasonably jump straight into their starting lineup. I think he's probably better than at least one, if not both, of the guys who were starting in the you know double pivot to the extent that that's what they used last year. He seems like a player who would fit great under Chris Armist.
00:39:23
Speaker
Ultimately, as much as it hurts personally, I think it's a ah deal that works well for just about everybody involved potentially. regarding matt I was going to say Matt Doyle ah posted a little thread here. I thought that we could do a little reaction because I thought sure it was it was some good takes. Real quick, I was going to ask him, you and Mark were going back and forth on ah on this idea of making an Obed a U22. He was saying he didn't like the idea. You were saying you did like the idea. what are Where's your head at there? i I think making Obed a U22
00:40:02
Speaker
solidifies their position in negotiations going into this summer. Obed's current deal as far as I can tell is only guaranteed through 2025 with club options for 26 and 27. It's also I think similar to making Josh a U-22 when they made him a U-22, giving Jackson Reagan his extension and raise this offseason. Like, Hobed's played well enough to deserve that recognition from the club. I think it sends a good message to other guys coming through the pipeline that, like,
00:40:43
Speaker
If you work hard and you do your job when you get your opportunity, you are going to be rewarded for that. You're going to be set up for success going forward. I think, you know, if you are looking at it as like, okay, well, if they absolutely max out what they could give him, which basically would be like a 10 times increase on what he's currently making. Yeah, maybe that creates a barrier when it comes time to sell him. But realistically, they're not going to give him a 10 X raise. They're probably going to, you know, maybe even if they go nuts and they
00:41:27
Speaker
make him five times what he's getting now. That's still like a little under $500,000. A team who is capable and willing to pay a $10 million dollars transfer fee probably isn't going to balk at meeting a $500,000 salary. Like sure it's possible, but the teams who actually have the money to pay that kind of transfer fee have the money to pay that salary.
00:41:57
Speaker
think that's a great point about rewarding performance. It's kind of similar to the ah discussion about the Jordan Morris incentives. you know A lot of people didn't like it purely because of the raw roster implications that it had. ah But there's an element of these things that's about like, principle, doing right by your players and ah Like you said, like rewarding the guys who put in the work and have it reflected in their performance on the field. ah Noah, why don't you pull up this armchair analyst thread? and I have not seen or read this at all. So why don't you lay down what Doyle's ah talking about and then we can discuss if we think he's right or wrong.
Expert Opinions and Future Projections
00:42:36
Speaker
Matthew Doyle, the armchair analyst, I for some reason, I just, when I speak as him, I speak in Italian, like I'm an Italian man, but I'm not going to do that this time because we have a lot of people watching us and I feel like I'm going to scare them off.
00:42:49
Speaker
so you can doyle sisters though I'll do this, I'll say, hey, this tells me a few things. ah Colorado wanted a defensive midfielder who can stop opposing transition moments and Atencio is probably their man for that role. Two, Atencio probably wasn't going to break into Seattle's rotation in a significant way this year, including its center back. Three, Seattle's got a U-22 defensive mid or center midfielder coming.
00:43:13
Speaker
He also said, I think there's also a chance that Atencio just did not want to convert to center back. So the Sounders did him a solid and traded him somewhere he can be a starting number six. This is another good trade for both teams and significantly changes my preseason perception of Colorado's strength. One other variable, the Sounders have a soon to be 18 year old defensive mid coming from the academy who was awesome in next pro last year. And we know about the Tacoma to first team pipeline and that's Snyder Brunel. So Doyle, laying down his Doyleisms. How are we feeling on that? A lot of good points there. I think the Snyder-Bernal thing is ah is a thing.
00:43:49
Speaker
and also um From how he's interpreting it, someone in chat asked if he's going to play ah midfield or if Colorado is going to keep him at CB. ah Doyle right there, and then also from talking to Nico earlier, it seems like they are going to play him as a midfielder like he played at for aye pretty much all of his career in Seattle, except for when he was with Defiance. um So I don't know, where do you guys want to go with that? Positionally, where he's going to play with the rapids or maybe some... ah Tim, tim how tell us about Snyder Burnell. You watch a lot of ah Defiance. Do you think that his rise was a factor in Seattle feeling empowered to be able to move Josh Atencio?
00:44:41
Speaker
Maybe to some extent, I don't really think they're a super direct comparison. um I think Snyder more naturally does. You know, we have seen an occasional strength of Josh's is carrying the ball forward, getting into the attacking half, if not the final third for the Sounders.
00:45:09
Speaker
um I think Snyder operates a little bit more naturally in those spaces. um He certainly, you know, having a player like that in the pipeline does mean that you don't have to worry as much about your midfield depth if you move a midfielder, especially a midfielder who is probably your like fifth on the depth chart at the moment, like maybe a little bit higher than that, but going from Josh Atencio as somewhere from like third to fifth to Snyder Brunel as your fifth behind.
00:45:51
Speaker
Christian, Obed, Danny, JP, like it's not a bad move if you have a potentially like bigger money or higher ceiling player coming in who is a more direct attention comp, like that especially makes it an easier move to make. I think for Colorado, like Anyone who watched or paid attention to any conversation about Colorado last year knows that moving Moisa Bombito kind of cratered their team. Like they had a unicorn and then they didn't have a unicorn and it's hard to prepare for not having a truly special and elite player. Josh obviously is not a
00:46:39
Speaker
Bumpito clone, but like even if they do play him at CB, I think he provides a lot more mobility, if not the direct like speed that Bumpito does. like Having someone who can cover ground like Josh, whether he's played as one of a group of three centerbacks or in the midfield, obviously helps cover a lot of that like transition threat that was how they got repeatedly cooked after losing Bumpito.
00:47:11
Speaker
Yeah. um Jeremiah, let's get you back in here. Have you heard, I know it's only been a few minutes since this trade took place, but have you heard, and we we alluded to it already, but have you heard anything like concrete to the effect that it was Atencio himself who was pushing for this move and was the impetus behind it, or is that is that speculation at this point?
00:47:35
Speaker
I mean, that's, it feels like speculation at this point. I think, you know, I talked to Josh, you know, I wrote a story yesterday, yesterday talking about his move to center back and sort of like how he was, you how he had the right mindset for it and how he was approaching it as this sort of like growth opportunity.
00:47:56
Speaker
But I think if you read between and I got this vibe from him when I talked to him, especially now and I so sort of was getting this vibe from other people is that I think he was on board with the move. I think there's a very real possibility that he was frustrated with the reality of the move. like he I think he was i he liked the idea of it. I think it was probably pitched to him in a way that made a lot of sense. I think he probably embraced a lot of that. I think the Sounders were being honest when they said that they thought he had elite potential at that position.
00:48:29
Speaker
but his mind, I mean, he, you know, you just go back, you go back to last year and he gave this interview where he was talking about, it was a dream come true to wear the number eight. He sees himself as a midfielder. He sees himself as a number eight. This is how he envisions himself. And I don't think that it's, I think it's notable that he will, I mean, he, he's almost certainly going to the rapids to play midfielder there. They are not,
00:48:56
Speaker
a acquiredre They're not spending this money to put into a project of a player who is already a you a capped US national team midfielder. right So I think that's probably part of it. I don't think he's sitting there banging the table demanding to get traded, but I think he was frustrated that he wasn't plank that he didn't play more last year. i think he was for you know One of the things he said to me was,
00:49:18
Speaker
I, it's frustrating when you don't really know why you're not playing. Like in his mind, he was doing what he had to do to get on the field. I mean, he is by all accounts, one of the best training players. Like he is a beast in training. And for whatever reason, there was a disagreement in the coach. I do know this to be true, that there's a disagreement in the coaching staff as to like what his strengths and weaknesses are. And I think for Brian, at least he, He was not as enamored with his aggressiveness sometimes, and I think that you you know he he would you know he would sometimes overcommit. He would sometimes get out of position because he was so aggressive about covering ground. his passing you know If you look at his passing percentage among his peers, it's not that high, but he is almost off the charts when it comes to
00:50:08
Speaker
progressive passing, right? He's just a much more aggressive player than I think the Sounders saw in that role. And that fits Chris Armist really well. I think he's probably going to excel there. I think this is a ah pretty close to ideal match ah pairing for him. So I don't think he was like demanding to be traded, but I don't think he is upset to be going someplace where they probably see him as a day one starter.
00:50:38
Speaker
What does this mean for Stu Hawkins, Joseph Fass? That was ah the one of the next topics I was i wanted to get to. ah Jeremiah, we've been talking about a Stu Hawkins loan, kind of as if it's a foregone conclusion, just based on the fact that he's also in a situation where he needs run, ah where where mlx next MLS Next Pro not going to cut it for the type of experience that he needs to be getting at this point. Does this move change the way that you view Stu Hawkins situation going into Colorado at all?
00:51:13
Speaker
I think it I definitely think it to me it suggests that the Sounders may like are at least open to the possibility of him being a useful first team player right now. ah I don't you know he could still go so be sent out on loan I don't I don't know that it like secures his short term future with the Sounders but I think that it does speak to the sound, you know, I think the sounders probably look at Stu Hawkins and go, Okay, well, we like we like Josh as a center back someday, but we like Stu better, yeah you know, and so in he's 45 years younger than than
00:51:49
Speaker
Josh is, and he's been a career, so you know, he's been learning this position for, you know, he's got like a five-year head start or whatever on on on Josh. So I think it, it like, I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, this means ah that Stu Hawkins is the number four center back on this team. But I do think it it does speak to their confidence in Stu's developmental path.
00:52:14
Speaker
I have a question here about, um, you know, one of the, my biggest critiques from, well, let's hit this super chat before we even get in there. Cause we just got a 10 bomb 10 bomb super chat here. Thank you so much for soul. Assuming that one U 22 spot is saved for RBW and Obed and another U 22 spot is saved for a CMDM. If the team does go for a second U 22 player, what is a more pressing need, a 10 considering Russ next injury or a nine?
00:52:45
Speaker
We'll toss it. Let's toss it to you, Tim. I think.
00:52:54
Speaker
I think I would say a nine rather like over a 10 just because I think they've got, you know, whether they're playing in the. 3421 or a 4231 like they've got a good.
00:53:13
Speaker
handful of guys who can play in that spot even you know looking at them using like in the 3 4 2 1 that they've been running all preseason they can use a Georgi Minougo they can use Paul Rothrock obviously Pedro Jesus all can play there Danny Leyva looked solid as a 10 subbing in for Rusnak last year like during preseason last year that was where Rothrock made a good number of appearances. um I think they've got decent options and they've got some got like ah Sebastian Gomez is not a direct like
00:54:01
Speaker
air apparent for that 10 spot, but they've got enough guys who can fill in there. And they do like at the nine, they've got Jordan and Jesus and Danny Masovsky, whatever you think of him, he can eat up minutes and he can do a job for you. There's not like, I like Osase de Rosario, his production with the national team,
00:54:27
Speaker
of late has been really great, but I don't think that's like a bankable bet at the nine spot. Like if you're going to drop some cash and go find a high upside young player, I think where they're situated, it makes more sense to do that with a nine than a 10 because you can also like If you really want to, Christian Roldan has cooked in the past as like a pressing 10. There's a lot of ways you can use that spot, what like whatever formation they're using. I think a nine makes a little bit more sense. Ari, what do you think about this? I agree. I would have said number nine for
00:55:08
Speaker
most of the reasons that Tim outlined. And that's something that we've talked about with Nico as well. I think ah i think the debate is exactly what Sol said, like a ah DM or a or a nine. and But they have some time to think about it.
00:55:24
Speaker
They do. And that's part of the reason why they said they were waiting to fill that spot is because they want to see how the team plays. And then they're going to assess that, which I think is actually the exact right way to handle it. I know people want to move now, but yeah. ah no you't ah Go for it, Jeremiah.
00:55:43
Speaker
I'll just say I'm always kind of skeptical of the assumption that the U22 spot is ever being looked at as a, we have a hole that we need filled right now. And this is the player who's going to fill it. Like the best case scenario for U22s are almost never players who come in and start. So you're not looking at a Rusnak backup, you're looking at Rusnak's potential successor two or three years down the road, which I don't know, you might use that spot on a U22. Don't get me wrong, like it's not a it's not a useless way of using that spot. It's just that it's not, like I think we sometimes get caught up in the idea that like, oh, well, they need a backup nine right now, so they better go sign a U22. And it's like, well, like
00:56:31
Speaker
he might not really like the chances of that player being your backup or not real good. Like, it I think it speaks more to like where they see the the need and the organization, you know, like the depth chart wise. And I think at the number nine spot, they don't have a great succession plan. ah You know, they have Jordan and they have Ferreira and and to Tim's point,
00:56:53
Speaker
Mysovsky is is in in that conversation. He exists. Right. But you're not I don't know that you're going to really upgrade on Mysovsky like tomorrow with a U22, I guess is my point. Whereas you you might sign a U22 who's going to be Jordan in a couple of years. Yeah.
00:57:12
Speaker
I think it's because we all saw what the l LA galaxy did with day on yovalitch and we went, why don't the sounders do exactly he that? He needed three. I mean, he that was his third last year was his third year. Like, I think that's some one of the works good from the jump, though. He just got hurt.
00:57:26
Speaker
He was good, but he didn't. I mean, you look good. I mean, he was good. He was fine, but he wasn't. he He was also an older player who had a much better track record than almost any other U-22. I mean, he that's that. is I mean, you're right. He is the he is the a example of what you get out of a U-22. I'm not like that's absolutely true. But even in my point is that even in that scenario where he is doing exactly what you hope he's going to do, it wasn't year until year three where he was actually a starter.
00:57:53
Speaker
Yeah, well, let's you go back up Chicharito when he should have been starting over Chicharito from the jump. But ah yeah, no, I see what you're saying. Noah, what was your take? You had one. Yeah, I was going to say, you know, one of the things that I had brought up a couple of podcasts ago that one of the biggest critiques for me of Craig Weibel had been, you know, the lack of loans and lack of transfers out. And to me, he did some really nice business with this Jesus for error trade. Right. And then this trade specifically is may OK. I'm going to I'm going to put a hot take out there, guys. You know, I love doing this.
00:58:28
Speaker
This is even even better trade than the Jesus for Eric trade. You basically unloaded a guy who you did right by the player who really just wasn't going to get the minutes of the position he wanted. You get a 20 percent sell on fee for a player who you already know has a lot of upside. Give them to the rapids who like, you know, whatever, it's the rapids like they're never really going to be that big of an issue. And you make a good chunk of change that's convertible and really does help you in the short term and semi long term with building your roster. so whoever wants to Whoever wants to hit on that take, the go for it. Well, I would say um depends what you mean by better trade. like If you're talking peer
00:59:14
Speaker
Business I see what you're saying in terms of like impact on the team on the field We'll have to see what they use this attention game for but with Ferreira they got a best 11 attacker Potentially so I think it's hard to like rate this it's gonna be hard to rate them against each other until we see what they do with the attention resources, but I do think it is ah It's pretty undeniably good business. I don't know. i just When I see 1.3, I'm like, that's ah that's more than I thought they would have gotten. It is. Yeah. Not knowing what is going to trigger the add-ons for that deal, i just it took a little bit for it to click. but like
01:00:02
Speaker
Once Josh acclimates to playing at elevation with the rapids, like the way he plays in the system that Armas wants his team to play in, he is going to be a nightmare to play against.
01:00:18
Speaker
like He is going to look so good in that system, and he might not be like the thing that makes the rapids good, but he is going to look so good, which makes that salon a little bit more appealing. like Maybe it doesn't drastically increase his potential asking price, but I like, I think it increases the likelihood that he gets into the national team with, you know, at least some regularity, like is on the bubble at least. It's yeah, it's a good, it's a good move. I see you shaking your head over there, Jeremiah. What are you, what are we feeling?
01:01:09
Speaker
yeah i mean i think it's I do think that it it for a GM who has taken a lot of criticism for failing to be creative and being too conservative, I think this is a step in the direction of more bold moves and more aggressive moves and you know in in that and i do think Again, I know there's a lot of concern over the short-term depth, but the reality is the sounders weren't looking at him as Obed's backup. like if they you know that's That's just for better or for worse. um and I think the sounders essentially took this as an opportunity to to move from a position of strength and
01:01:55
Speaker
it opens up some real possibilities. you know this They had almost no cap space. they By my estimation, they barely had enough cap space to get a ah U-22, and now they have a lot more. you know They can go out and potentially sign a veteran if they need one. I don't expect that player to be here tomorrow, but i i mean i don't I'll tell you, my overall take is I don't love the move because I really like Josh, but I think that you can logically understand it And I think, from the again, from the perspective of we want Craig to just do something, this is definitely doing something.
01:02:34
Speaker
um I wanted to take it back to Stu Hawks for a second. I think that is potentially a key character in all this, at least down the line. Tim, based on the defiance that you've watched, ah just do like like tell us about Stu Hawks. He is rated, as everything I've heard in the last like couple years, is that he is rated within the organization as ah a future starting level and MLS center back like as a baseline and they think his ceiling might be higher than that. Based on what you have seen ah of him with Defiance, do you feel like he's on track to live up to that billing or ah what do you make of his profile and development at this point in his career? I think it's tough watching MLS Next Pro
01:03:27
Speaker
out to really definitively speak to like a player's level unless they're just, well, even if they're absolutely dominating, like Rodilio Rodriguez dominated. It's hard to know how much that actually means, but Stuart Hawkins is an unreal passer of the ball. Like his passing numbers are incredible. He is consistently one of the best passing center backs in MLS next pro. I don't think that's going to like go away as he moves up the levels. He really like
01:04:14
Speaker
Last year, the big task for him was being the guy who sort of organizes the back line. The more experienced center backs we'd played with previously had moved on. The goalkeeping situation behind him was a lot more rotational. ah And he was tasked by the organization with being the guy who organizes things.
01:04:42
Speaker
i I think he is doing all of the right stuff in the environments he's put in to like continue to progress. It is just like going from a reserve league to and MLS where you are going from largely playing against people who are around your age, maybe a little bit older with some exceptions to playing against guys who are you know competing at the World Cup or Copa America. like That's a big difference, especially for a young center back. He's got to put on some additional bulk. like He's got to get on a Mac diet and bulk up. He's so skinny. Yeah. He looks like me, dude. he does he I was just going to say. wow
01:05:37
Speaker
I'll be remiss if he's gained a lot of weight over the last couple of years, but he's still like it speaks to like how. It speaks to how like the deficit. yeah I mean, he's sick. Listen, don't hit on the metabolism over here. All right, you know, some of us, you know. I mean, he's he's putting on weight. He's he's been putting on weight, but yeah, he's I think there's still doubts about his ability to physically match up with MLS number nines.
01:06:06
Speaker
Yeah. And that's, that's really, I think what I'm getting at. And, you know, there's a pace of play game, like the speed at and MLS is so much faster than MLS next pro. The guys you're playing against are better. They're smarter. Like they're literally messy. Yeah. hi You know, I think going to like, if he goes to a good,
01:06:33
Speaker
usl championship team like if new mexico united want to come calling oh absolutely that's what i've actually already campaigned for that so like i think i think that would be a good next test if they don't feel like he's ready to cook in mls it's you know i can see the vision But I can also see that there's still there's still some ways to go before there they or he are ready for Stu Hawks to be in the middle of that center back group. I still think I want to see him
01:07:12
Speaker
do do a stint on loan in USO. I feel like that makes sense as a next step to ah adapt to a league that is ah faster, more physical, where he's going against grown men, but not at the MLS level for Seattle, where you know there's so much on the line every game. I think that that I still land on that even with this attention trade. Looks like we've got some ah breaking MLS news in chat.
01:07:38
Speaker
Sol says, speaking of trade transfers, just saw that and NYCFC is sending Santi Rodriguez to Bota Fogo for $17 million. dollars So I don't know if that's officially confirmed or happening yet, but that's a good little that's a nice little move that's good that's a good little second most important MLS move behind the Josh Atencio to the rapids for $1.3 million. and That was another Tom bomb.
01:08:04
Speaker
That's another time. Is he like touring houses? Well, we asked him to come on and he said, oh, boys, I would love to. But I'm literally about to go into a comedy show with my wife. And I was like, all right, wife guy, you know, let's be nice over here dropping like the biggest transfer news. You know, now had a Rodriguez. Yeah. Oops. I mean, seven Santi Rodriguez has been really good for NYCFC, 17 million dollars.
01:08:33
Speaker
That is a bag. And is and they're not saying, yeah, people are like trying to compare it to this trip. It's not, let's not even, don't even, don't even go there. I mean, it's a dream move to go from the city football group to the John text or money laundering operation. So it's very, very excited for him to move on a free to OL in nine months time. Yeah, it'll be great.
01:08:59
Speaker
We got Jeremiah O'Shinn, we got Tim Foss from Sounder and Heart joining us on this emergency stream and we've got 164 people in here, which is easily our record. So thank you all for tuning in. If you've got questions about the trade or I guess anything. I'm linked in the Discord, that's why it's so high. Go ahead and drop it in the chat. What did you say, Jeremiah? If you're here from the Discord, which is why it's so high.
01:09:26
Speaker
Oh, okay. that That's what's why there's so many people. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. I think he's i think he's he's ribbing us. Oh, okay. I think this was a bit ah here. i mean It's not a bit in that it's a real thing that happened, but it is. a I am rubbing you. Yes. Where with Danny on the depth chart versus attention before today, Chris asks anyone take it. Go for it. He was ahead of him. I mean, he was I gave up. I've said it. I don't want to like like.
01:09:57
Speaker
be overly repetitive, but like the Sounders had Danny ahead of of Josh in the depth chart just because they were sort of like making the decision to move Josh to center her back. And so, you know, Danny had been had been playing at at defensive mid all preseason. Seems like he's been doing OK there. I don't think he's a better demid than Josh is. I mean, I'm not saying that, but I think he was ahead of I think the plan at least early in the year was the minutes were more likely to go to Leyva than to attention. Danny Leyva was the original sounder to sound her homegrown midfielder to go to the rapids. And ah I don't know, did ah Jeremiah, did you hear anything about like ah how that went from his end or how the sounders felt like that loan went?
01:10:50
Speaker
I don't think anyone was totally ecstatic with how it went. He didn't play as much as I think the sounders had hoped that he would. and you know the rapids i Actually I don't know, the rapids maybe not have had an automatic By option on him none. I think about it I think Craig made a point of saying that they didn't have that but he didn't play as much as the Sounders had hoped he would play ah it is connected in the sense that Chris Little was an assistant at Colorado when Danny was there he remains an assistant while ah now and he
01:11:25
Speaker
coached both Danny and Josh at both the Academy and for Tacoma Defiance. So, Atencio is going someplace where there is a ah clear like connection, like there's ah there's an in there.
01:11:44
Speaker
Yeah. Noah, did you have anything else that you that you wanted to hit here? I feel like we've kind of a you got this has been a good, yeah, we we hit a lot. worse But ah there's anything anything else regarding the team or the offseason or the games coming up, we may as well hit it. We're on this ah emergency stream. And like I said, if you guys have anything that you want us to hit,
01:12:05
Speaker
drop it in chat. But ah yeah, I guess for our panel here, if you get any last takes ah on the trade, thoughts, feelings, rash conclusions. ah Tim, got anything? No, i I think just I would want to sort of echo Jeremiah's ah feelings on the deal. I think removing myself from my own personal fandom and feelings like um you can see that it's it's tough ah but it's you can see that the business of this deal makes sense. You can understand all of the perspectives from
01:12:48
Speaker
a fan perspective, it is tough to see a player like Atencio go. Not only is he a great personality and a good player, but he is a local guy. like Just as always tough to see somebody like that move, I think particularly within the league, but I am you know glad that it's not to a team that I have particularly strong feelings about. and I'm going to, that's going to be a ah season pass team for me now that probably wouldn't have been previously. Like I'm going to watch a lot more rapids games than I would have otherwise. We'll call you in for our rapids coverage. Oh yeah. yeah nice beat reporter I think my favorite part of this deal is that ah Jeremiah went 1.2 K words literally yesterday, like analyzing the fine points of the transition and how he's adapting. And then literally the next day, he so it is money hules right ah You know, it's funny because I was I was struggling with that story a little bit because I wasn't quite sure how to put sort of a boat like this I had done the interviews for it like last week more than a week I guess
01:14:00
Speaker
ah week ago like more than a little week ago. Okay, let's just call it that. but And I had been sort of struggling with putting a spin on this of like trying to explain it. And, and the more people I've been talking to behind the scenes, there was sort of like some, a little bit of, let's not get too excited about this quite yet. He's still got some growing to do. And I don't know if if you go back and you read the end of that story, there's a whole chunk in there about how This might not pay off right away. This is more of a long-term play, blah, blah, blah. And I do think that that speaks a lot to, in hindsight, I now know that some people I talked to were sort of like, the reason they were pumping the brakes a little was because I think they knew this was in the works.
01:14:43
Speaker
Yeah, that would add up. um i get one ah One other kind of random thing, I guess we can hit on with this. I was talking to Nico a few weeks ago and ah I was telling him, I think i I dropped the take that I feel like Leo Bernie might actually play more this year than we think. And he was saying, you know, he disagreed because he's buried on the depth chart. But my point was kind of like,
01:15:07
Speaker
Yeah, he's buried on the depth chart, but the way it works in MLS a lot of the times is that those guys who you think are buried like actually end up playing. So he might play based on that. ah But Jeremiah or Tim, like have you guys what got any read on Leo Bernie or what they like about him, because I'll say from my perspective, I'm intrigued about a like the Chad Marshall of the Ivy League. He's like the three time Ivy League defender of the year. This is Ari's Hill. It's his new Paul Rothrock. Yeah, exactly. He was dominating the Ivy League. But I don't know. I know very little about him other than that. What do you guys think? I mean, I'll just say early on in training, he stood out to me as a player who looked really good.
01:15:53
Speaker
The reality is that he has not played at all, I don't think, in preseason. I don't know if he's logged a single minute, to be honest with you. Really? And the Sounders have played five and a half games. Yeah. So I definitely think that, to me, pumps the brakes a little on what my expectation is for him this year. I think he is a player who has some potential. But if he makes a first-team appearance,
01:16:18
Speaker
uh, outside of, you know, if he breaks a first team appearance, I, I, I honestly would be a like, it, it speaks to like how many, how much depth that would be required of them to dig. I mean, he's the sixth or seventh guy on the depth chart right now. I think that's, that's all right. Well, no one clipped my take then. He's probably not playing with you. You'll look so good if he does though. ah That's kind of why I did it. It was a high risk high reward take. Yeah. I mean,
01:16:49
Speaker
it It strikes me as more likely that he has like a Jackson Reagan-esque path to the first team that he goes and just is, I mean, the guy looks like he's made out of bricks. Like he's, you know, the thing from the Fantastic Four.
01:17:14
Speaker
i I think he could go and be one of the top center backs in MLS Next Pro for a season and then get a real look with the first team next year. I mean, who knows how long Kim Ki-hee is going to stick around. Jay Mar isn't going to get any younger. like I think he's probably, to Jeremiah's point, not going to play much if at all with the first team this season, unless several things go pretty wrong. But I i think he could be in line for real minutes in 2026. He's smart. He's smart to University of Pennsylvania. You guys know how hard it is to get in there. I looked it up. It's like a two point two percent acceptance rate. You know, so I didn't get into any Ivy leagues. Yeah, I wasn't even close. So I'm just I'm just saying, like, when you got brains like that, it helps as a center back.
01:18:03
Speaker
I you know one other thing I don't know if you guys discussed this but I do think it's ah a funny little thing because you had him a guest as a guest on your show but ah sometimes sounder heart contributor ah very rabid Senator Hart discord member, ah Brian McKay wrote, we do love Brian on this pod. know he wrote He wrote a story for backheeled where he identified five players he thought could potentially move ah this. He thought they would be cash trades. So there's an asterisk by the Josh attention one, but now three of the five players he identified have now moved ah because he he's Jack McGlynn was a cash trade player. He called him. Yeah, Dijon Jovalich was another player he thought would move within the league as a cash trade. And then Josh Atencio, he thought would be a cash trade. So it didn't quite hit the the full bar. But that counts. He identified the right type of team that would be looking for him, which is he thought it would be like a DC United or maybe New York Red Bull, but Colorado row Rapids are right there, like they're the same model.
01:19:04
Speaker
Listen, he he didn't come on camera on our stream, so he might actually be Don Garver. Like, we haven't confirmed this. He might just have a voice modulator. Calling the Jack McGlynn trade is kind of Bill Different. that Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if you're if you're Patrick Ajiman or ah who's the other one he has or Facundo Ferrias from Miami, you better you better have your bags packed because he's he's got you get're ready to learn FC Dallas, buddy. Exactly.
01:19:33
Speaker
yeah yeah You get into Ivy League, my nepotism, not qualifications, but i to my research, it wasn't nepotism. I think he got in there on on the merit. I don't know that. Ari went on his LinkedIn. I'm not reporting that. I'm just saying. What are we talking about? Exactly. Why don't you two shift? While we've skewed into how to get into Ivy League programs, i got go braise a pork shoulder. So yoga yeah thanks for having me guys. We'll get you guys out here on that. Jeremiah O'Shan, Tim Foss, both of Sounder at Heart. ah Follow them on ah on everything. Appreciate you guys, given the time on this ah emergency stream. That was some good stuff, good insight. We're going to have you both on again soon. Sounds good. Later, guys. See you all.
01:20:28
Speaker
All right, that was Jeremiah and Tim Foss. They were very kind to stay through all the way to my Leo Bernie takes, which I think the fact that the Leo Bernie takes. um surfaced at all is a sign that ah and we're about wrap. it we're about hard to rep We still got so many people in here though. So I'm going to do what we normally do near the end of the streams and ah fire up a little lo-fi. And then if you guys have any last questions or topics, go ahead and submit them and we will ah stay on for as long as there's still things to talk about. um
01:21:07
Speaker
Also, drop us a super chat if you enjoyed the stream. We really appreciate everyone coming in. ah We took some time out of our weekend to wrangle all of these reporters and whatnot. And if you haven't liked the stream yet, please give us a like on there as well as hit the subscribe button if you're not subscribed because, frankly,
01:21:30
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know what you're doing. We're pumping out more content than ever in 2025. And if you want to become a member, you get some cute emojis you can use in the chat and a bunch of other content. We're going to be working on some members only content here soon. We've got a lot coming for 2025. And I see Brando asks what my new takes on the kit is. I love it. I think it's awesome. I think it's I think it's one of the better kits that they've ever put out. I think the story's cool, I think. I love the blue, I love the deep blue kits. I think that those always looked good. One of my favorite kits of all time was that 2018-2019 kit, I think, that deep blue one. It was kind of heathered. I had an Aussie Alonzo kit for that one, so I loved that. And if you want to get... your own. Go to lobbingscorchers.com slash kit. That's lobbingscorchers dot.com slash K I T. We'll get a percentage of whatever you purchase. So hot take on what the third kit will be now that we've seen the sailor CK. You got anything for that? Oh, it'll probably be like ah a similar template to what everyone else puts out as a third kit. But I don't know. I think the colors have been leaked, but I think that's about it. So we'll see. We'll see. No hot takes.
01:22:47
Speaker
World Cup final hat-trick scorer and Sounders legend Jeff Hurst subbed to the pod. ah I hope so. I
Final Thoughts and Farewell to Atencio
01:22:55
Speaker
don't know. We should. We should. ah We got to check it really. Shout out Jeff Hurst. Yeah. Yo, shout out to IBS treatment center in the chat. Nice work. Just stumbled onto this ah great trade. Having him as a fifth bets, fifth best center back made no sense and he was going to play much in the midfield either. So shout out IBS treatment center.
01:23:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think that right there is pretty much the consensus that ah that we came to on the quad pod stream. I think, i I don't know, to me reading between the lines, it seems pretty clear that he, I think he probably went to them and was like, hey,
01:23:36
Speaker
ah does it does feel it does feel like a mutual thing where he was probably not progressing and I think that's like a good thing like he was like listen this just this shit isn't working I don't want to play here I want to play at you know the defensive midfielder position and what are you gonna do tell the kid no like and then they probably were like okay like let's see what we can do he was probably like that's totally fine they tossed it out and the fact that four clubs four plus around four clubs i think is what nico said bit on that i mean come on come on
01:24:13
Speaker
I had forgotten about the interview that Jeremiah was talking about, where he was talking about how much of a dream come true it was to to wear the eight and stuff. like yeah Kind of thinking back to that, I'm like, yeah, he he just he just doesn't see himself as a CB. And he was a good soldier about their plan to move him. He said all the right things. It sounds like, I don't know, I didn't see that much of him playing it in preseason, because I've been mostly following those games via highlights.
01:24:41
Speaker
but a Yeah, I mean, I'm like Tim was saying I'm low he gonna be watching some rapids games this year just to see how he looks would be curious about that um that. I don't know. There's there's not much of many storylines that would have me locked in on the Colorado rapids but them getting Josh attention. That's one of them and they're like,
01:25:08
Speaker
They're going to play him. There's no way they drop a $1.3 million game bag garber bag on him if they were not going to play him a lot. And I have I have one thing to say to close this out. ari Are you ready? Yeah. Are you sure? Get ready to learn rapids, man, buddy. Get ready to rapids, man, buddy.