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Discovering Ikigai: Navigating Life with the Ikigai Venn Diagram
15 Plays9 months ago
In Episode 4 of "Capital and Code," we delve into the concept of Ikigai through the lens of the Ikigai Venn Diagram, a powerful framework stemming from the Japanese word meaning "a reason for being.". This episode was inspired by a thought-provoking post created by Sonja, which sparked a deeper exploration into how we can all find our purpose.
Join us as we summarise the key points and encourage you to actively engage with the ideas discussed to explore your own Ikigai Venn Diagram, leading to a more fulfilled and purposeful life.
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Transcript
00:00:01
johnkattenhorn
Hello, everybody.
Introduction to Episode Four and Hosts
00:00:03
johnkattenhorn
This is John Catanhorn, and this is episode four of Capitorm Code. I'm here today with my co-host, Sonia. Sonia, how are you doing?
00:00:13
Sonja
Great. John, it's great to be here as usual. How are you?
00:00:16
johnkattenhorn
I'm good, thank you. Yeah, I'm good.
What is the Ikigai Venn Diagram?
00:00:18
johnkattenhorn
So today we're going to be exploring theIkigai Venn diagram, right? This was a subject you and I started talking about after you did a post, right? Do you want to do an introduction into what this is all about?
Origins and Etymology of Ikigai
00:00:32
Sonja
Exactly, so theIkigai Venn diagram, I think we should start with what it is in its origins and just for the listeners.
00:00:38
johnkattenhorn
Yes, yes.
00:00:40
Sonja
We'll be putting a copy of that Venn diagram into the show notes so you can reference it.
00:00:43
johnkattenhorn
OK, great.
00:00:46
Sonja
So basically what it is is a framework that translates and is used often in kind of career advisory and you know thinking about kind of your career journey, career coaching around what's your reason really translating your reason for being also in finding the right work and and focus of your time and energy that you want to be that you want to be doing so it's effectively got four circles and the idea is that the intersection of those four circles is your ikigai so and let me take a step back maybe first it comes from the Japanese word
00:01:19
johnkattenhorn
Okay.
How the Ikigai Framework Works
00:01:26
Sonja
or two words iki which means to live and gai which means reason yeah so your reason for being your reason for living and originally it was that word comes out of i mean that word is over a thousand years old out of japan but the venn diagram is actually only 10 years old it was created by a gentleman in gernsey called uh mark win in 2014 who who was basically 45 minute blog post that it took him to write went viral where he took the principles kind of behind icky guy and he created the spend diagram with it.
00:02:00
Sonja
which has been and has found its way into a lot of coaching conversations actually about career, which I find very, very interesting. And the idea is that there's also different intersections in the Ikigai Venn diagram that have different
Exploring Intersections: Passion, Mission, Vocation, Profession
00:02:16
Sonja
elements. For instance, at the intersection of what I'm good at and what I love is of course my passion. And if I look at the intersection of the circles, what I love and what the world needs, that might be my mission. as an individual. If I look at the intersection between what the world needs and what I can get paid for, that might be my vocation. And then the intersection, the final one, between what I can get paid for and what I'm good at, that is likely going to be or that should be hopefully my profession. And the idea is how can I merge those four circles to get somewhere that's more powerful and more meaningful.
00:02:52
johnkattenhorn
OK, so that's so this is a way of helping people sort of navigate their life and kind of, you know, bring together things they find interesting, things that they, you know, motivates them. You know, this is like combining elements of happiness as well. Right. So this is is this used just for careers or or can you use this kind of in your personal life as well?
00:03:17
Sonja
Absolutely not just careers. I think the important thing and the background to the emergence of the diagram was about kind of finding your reason for being your life purpose and all the more power to you if you're able to find that in association of what you're getting paid for. But with the whole concept being,
Adapting Ikigai to Life's Stages
00:03:40
Sonja
it may be you're at a point in your life or in your career, depending where you are, potentially you're just starting out, where it's more important for you to think about, hey, what can I get paid for? Because that's a critical element also for survival. And what am I maybe skilled at or good at? And so focusing on finding a profession that can adequately pay you, where as you potentially as you progress over time, even when it comes to what you're doing for work, you can integrate more aspects of what you love. There's not a lot of people who from day one out the door are able to, for instance, merge
00:04:17
Sonja
their love and their passions together with what they're able to get paid for. So the idea being that we're on a continuum here and even if in a work context we're not able to find specifically or be in our icky guy that we have ways to do that outside of our working life with respect to what we're doing or how we're managing family aspects or volunteer aspects or hobbies or other things that make sure that we're touching on each of these circles.
00:04:45
johnkattenhorn
Okay. Okay, so let's see if I've got this right then. So it's not a static thing. So it kind of changes, as you said, over time, depending on your journey, I suppose, your life journey. So this is a tool that can be used continuously. And then when you're identifying perhaps where you are on this diagram, are you using
00:05:05
Sonja
Yeah.
00:05:14
johnkattenhorn
the shift, are you always trying to move to the center? Is that the
Personalization and Fulfillment with Ikigai
00:05:17
johnkattenhorn
goal? Are you kind of like identifying where you are and therefore, you know, making decisions to try and move yourself into the center or is it not well that way?
00:05:28
Sonja
I think that's, first of all, that's a great question. I think the principle behind the Ikkika-Ivan diagram is that you know, we will be our happiest if we can merge all of these things in the center. But I would argue there's never one solution, yeah, or never one place that's right for everybody to be.
00:05:52
johnkattenhorn
I get you.
00:05:52
Sonja
Or that place would be really crowded.
00:05:52
johnkattenhorn
I get you.
00:05:55
Sonja
So I think, and what the principle of the Ikigayevan diagram is to say, okay, maybe, you know, Maybe I know that, for instance, what I can be paid for and what I'm good at will potentially never specifically merge completely with, for instance, something the world needs desperately, which is to reduce our plastic consumption. For example, yeah? But I have ways to give back to the world outside of that.
00:06:17
johnkattenhorn
Gotcha.
00:06:21
Sonja
And I think the focus here is to give give people a framework to think about how might I want to combine these aspects of importance to find a reason for being and you know happiness in my own journey through different ways and you know if you're able to get to that ikigai point, for instance, in your working life, amazing. But if you can't, does that mean you failed? Absolutely not. It means that potentially you can play and you should play in different parts of your life, in different parts of the diagram, and you can feel equally happy going at it from a different perspective.
00:07:04
johnkattenhorn
Excellent. Okay, so this is So this is something that we talked about a little while ago around the pursuit of happiness and the power of giving and stuff like that. So this gives you a framework, right, to be more deliberate about the pursuit of fulfillment and happiness, right, in terms of whether that's, you know, my age, 50, people starting off in, you know, as adults, you know, 18 plus or whatever. Um, this, it's a more deliberate, um, action, I suppose, um, for finding that, that fulfillment either in your career or in your personal life.
00:07:33
Sonja
Yeah.
00:07:38
Sonja
Yeah. Exactly.
00:07:42
johnkattenhorn
Right.
John's Personal Ikigai Journey
00:07:44
Sonja
And, you know, if I were to sort of challenge you now in this conversation to think about, you know, how would you have thought about this framework, thought about your own ikigai and your ability to fulfill it? in your 20s versus how you look at it today.
00:07:57
johnkattenhorn
Hmm.
00:07:59
Sonja
So what's changed for you personally in that journey?
00:08:04
johnkattenhorn
Yeah, it's interesting so I'm one of those rare people who managed to. And it was just by luck my passion and what I'm paid for and stuff are all are all kind of and what the world needs being in technology kind of all sits fairly close to the center but you're right as a. young man, I had children quite early. So it was, you know, the emphasis was definitely on buying a home. And, you know, I changed jobs. For instance, I changed away from jobs I really liked because I could go to another job that paid more money.
00:08:35
johnkattenhorn
And I guess that was so if I was to plot this for my past, then yeah, you could definitely see it moving around, you know, different
00:08:36
Sonja
Yeah.
00:08:46
johnkattenhorn
But I didn't come to this or even a version of this until literally probably, probably about five or six years ago, it's slightly different. And someone introduced me to defining your why I think it is by, by Simon Sinek. And it was sort of a similar awakening for want of a better word or, or, or a sort of, you know, have a proper look at your life and kind of, you know, in a slightly different way, but it's, it's a really interesting, framework that you've got here for sure.
00:09:19
Sonja
And I can say also from my side, it's, you know, I'll call it even for me if you want to, you know, if you're a visual person, which I very much also am, you can think about also the relevance of the size of certain circles. change over time and also what you have to offer. For instance, obviously you have certain shifts potentially over time in what you love. So it is important to keep coming back to a framework like this to think about, hey, what's maybe changed in what I love and also what am I good at? So I would argue our skills are always evolving over time and particularly people who are committed to ongoing
00:10:00
Sonja
development and learning you're consistently going to be adding to those skills to be adding to those things that you're good at that you identify as being good at you know and in the language in in the language of strengths yeah you talk about your signature strengths so how are your signature strengths and your skills evolving over time and how can you bring those in to
00:10:15
johnkattenhorn
Mm-hmm.
00:10:22
Sonja
to new roles and new challenges. And I think arguably this is the more we as kind of people look and act within these frameworks. I think it speaks to the fact that no wonder people aren't happy anymore having one career for life.
00:10:37
johnkattenhorn
Mm.
00:10:39
johnkattenhorn
Yes. Yes.
00:10:40
Sonja
Because our circles are changing, are moving.
00:10:42
Sonja
Also what the world needs and what the world is willing to pay for certain things changes over time.
00:10:43
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:10:47
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:10:48
Sonja
And if we're not adapting to that, We're gonna have a hard time keeping up, yeah?
00:10:52
johnkattenhorn
Yeah. Yeah. We always, you know, as we live longer, we have to work longer. You know, you can say, you know, you could have multiple careers and like you say, or you, what you want is different. I really like this idea because I'm quite a visual person too. The size of these circles changing over time, you know, because I guess like your, you know, one of the things that me and you have both had to get used to, I suppose, as our careers have progressed is that our experience counts
Value of Experience and Strengths in Careers
00:11:20
johnkattenhorn
for more and more. So it's not kind of like the ability you have, necessarily, although that's still there, and you're acquiring these skills, it's actually what you know, what you've experienced has becomes the most valuable thing, or increasingly valuable to companies.
00:11:33
johnkattenhorn
And that, for me,
00:11:34
Sonja
you
00:11:36
johnkattenhorn
sort of took a little while to appreciate, you know, in terms of, you know, that that was really valuable stuff. And how could I use that to the best, because I was just used to being very good at a particular thing. And, you know, and it wasn't really until I sort of got into my forties, probably, that I suddenly realized that things work in patterns and patterns repeatable and therefore if you've experienced these patterns before, you can speed things up and stuff like that. So how would you advise people to go and learn more about
00:12:11
johnkattenhorn
about IKEA or IKEA Venn diagrams in particular. Is there any resources? Is there any kind of, is Google our friend in terms of, how do people get started with this, do you think?
00:12:26
Sonja
Yeah, I think, I mean, Google is your friend and so is Copilot. And, you know, there's a lot of resources out there that can get you. I think the best starting point is actually just taking time for reflection and having a framework within which to reflect.
00:12:45
Sonja
Beyond this Venn diagram, and that's what I find is the beauty of this Venn diagram, it gives you all you need, except for the time that you need to carve out yourself, to kind of sit down and think about, just with a pen and paper and say, hey, what are those things that I love? What are the things that I'm good at? And when we talk about good at, again, I want to emphasize here, it's not just skills.
00:13:06
johnkattenhorn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:10
Sonja
It's also strengths. It's character strengths, as we call them.
00:13:14
Sonja
and you know maybe even a step there beyond and to help you in this what you're good at is taking a look at better identifying what your strengths are and there are a number of tools out there one of which I personally love is the via strengths survey which anyone can do it's kind of free online and it's backed by decades of research.
Tools and Surveys for Understanding Ikigai
00:13:37
Sonja
Millions of people globally have taken this survey and it identifies basically your top five character strengths and that's another great way to kind of dig into one of these circles. you know, what the world needs. I think we all have, there is no absolute truth here either.
00:13:56
johnkattenhorn
Okay.
00:13:58
Sonja
The world needs a lot of things and the question is which things that the world needs speaks to you and have you put any thought to what that is, you know, that really moves you and speaks to you in terms of what the world needs.
00:14:00
johnkattenhorn
Yeah, that's true.
00:14:12
Sonja
And then of course thinking about how does that intersect with someone who's going to be willing to pay you something for doing that. And again, the emphasis here being you don't need to get to the icky guy at the middle of the circle all and try to make that, you know, your career or your job or maybe not from the beginning of your career.
00:14:20
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:14:32
Sonja
Maybe that's your ambition, you know, if you think about it in your career trajectory in the long term. But maybe in the short term you start with saying, you know, I've got things that I'm good at and I've got, you know, stuff I can get paid for and get paid well for to kind of get myself set up for success and I'll make sure that I continue volunteering you know to either cover those two circles together which is what I love and what the world needs or I cover what I love with my hobbies and I managed to squeeze in some volunteering you know or
00:15:05
Sonja
or for instance what I think the world needs is great parents and I have kids and you know that's what I'm dedicating that part of my life to.
00:15:08
johnkattenhorn
Hmm.
00:15:12
Sonja
So there is no one way and I think that's important and it's important also to understand what our
00:15:21
johnkattenhorn
Hmm.
00:15:22
Sonja
What does your own diagram look like? And, you know, nothing beats, you know, carving out an hour to just think about this stuff. And in some cases, we've been, you know, working through this with the coach, having someone to force you to speak out loud about the topics. Yeah?
00:15:38
Sonja
And it's often more helpful than anything else because it's one thing to kind of have a dialogue in your mind.
00:15:38
johnkattenhorn
Yeah,
00:15:44
Sonja
It's another thing to, you know, have a structured dialogue out loud.
00:15:47
johnkattenhorn
it's often more powerful to not always use your inner voice and sort of the process of explaining
00:15:49
Sonja
Indeed.
00:15:56
johnkattenhorn
This helps people who are trained in this way to identify things you can't see in terms of because there's something that you live with or whatever. This is sort of a really
Volunteering and Altruism in Ikigai
00:16:10
johnkattenhorn
good thing. So one of the things that you and I talked about, I don't know if it was on one of the episodes or in another conversation, but like the power of giving. So you mentioned volunteering and that kind of thing. And you could be, you know, giving in the workplace, giving, you know, as you said, being a good parent or giving as a volunteer to people in need. Where does that sit again in the in the diagram, do you think?
00:16:36
Sonja
I think it can sit in a few places. On the one hand, it obviously sits in the world needs bit. The world needs more people who are helpful. and helpful without necessarily needing to get something back. It could also be, and here's the intersection between what I'm good at and what I love. And I've been doing a lot of work myself on the topic of character strengths and one of those strengths with respect to being someone who's kind of a giving, helpful, generous person from your nature.
00:17:14
Sonja
It could be that that is really one of your top strengths, so something that you're really good at, as well as then something that you love because you're good at it. These two things often lie in that intersecting plane.
00:17:26
johnkattenhorn
I get it. Yeah, I get it.
00:17:27
Sonja
And so it can come and it can intersect then at three angles for you. And that would make it a topic that absolutely you should be prioritizing.
00:17:40
johnkattenhorn
Hmm.
00:17:43
Sonja
But I think what all of us have learned is that the more we also give in general, there's also research on this. happier we are. I mean a giving culture is generally one that creates more happiness.
00:18:00
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
Encouragement for Using Ikigai Framework
00:18:00
johnkattenhorn
Okay. That's, that's really interesting. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I've always, you know, got a great deal out of giving to others and it's, it's a, it's a really powerful thing. So yeah, this is great. So we're coming sort of towards the end of our show today. What would your sort of closing gambit be for? for this, how would you encourage people to sort of get started? Is it, you know, like you said, carving out that hour, sitting down with the, you know, create four lists or something, you know, take some time to, you know, put something into those boxes and sort of go from there? Is that the right way to go?
00:18:48
Sonja
I would say that'd be a great start. I mean, just to take a look and actually think about yourself. And if you're only gonna, if you only can start with one circle, yeah? and kind of break that down I would really encourage the listeners to think about what you're good at and think about it in a really deep way beyond which skills you're good at and what you might have been trained in and what your degree's in but really think about what you're good at in terms of your character strengths and I know I mentioned it before but I'd like to come back to it because
00:19:02
johnkattenhorn
Oh, great point. Yeah.
00:19:07
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:19:13
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:19:23
Sonja
I was recently reading some research that showed that the most important, the two most important predictors of employee retention and satisfaction were one, using their top strengths in their work, like at their workplace, and point two, that one of their immediate supervisors recognized that these were actually their strengths. So again, these two things are the top
00:19:45
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:19:48
Sonja
to most important predictors of employees being happy in their jobs and staying in their jobs.
00:19:53
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:19:54
johnkattenhorn
Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.
00:19:55
Sonja
And that's powerful and even more powerful almost and scary is that only 20% of employees believe that their supervisors recognize their strengths. Arguably also because probably in some cases the employees themselves have maybe not taken enough time to really think about what those are and how to bring those more into their day-to-day lives.
00:20:21
johnkattenhorn
It's almost like bringing them to the company's attention as well, right?
00:20:25
johnkattenhorn
If they're not necessarily directly related to a skill you need at work, you know, if it's a trait or like I say, a strength, not a skill,
00:20:26
Sonja
Yeah.
00:20:34
Sonja
Exactly.
00:20:34
johnkattenhorn
then some is difficult for people to understand that that is there unless the situation allows you to demonstrate it, right? If that situation isn't there or isn't available to you immediately. So I would definitely encourage, it always comes down to communication, doesn't it? It doesn't matter what kind of relationship in the work, in person or whatever, but that communication needs to flow both ways, both to have some self-awareness, I guess, is what we're saying here in terms of things you enjoy, things you're strong at, things that you love, and then make sure that people are aware of those things, right? That there's active dialogue going on in both directions, either at your college or school or at your workplace.
00:21:21
Sonja
Absolutely, and I think what we should do is link in the show notes a link to the via strengths online survey that anyone can take. For free, you can get the basic listing of the strengths that come out of that. There's 24 character strengths, the concept being all 24 of those are present in everybody, but not to the same extent. So you may identify much less with one strength versus another strength. For example, my highest strength is hope. That means the ability to look at the future being positive.
00:22:00
Sonja
where my lowest strength is spirituality because I'm not a particularly spiritual person but it doesn't mean that I don't have the ability to be for example spiritual at all it just means that that's at the bottom and so by doing the survey you can get a first indication and when and you know if you're more interested as usual these these sites allow you to buy more detailed reports which
00:22:23
Sonja
can also be very helpful. But just to give you some more first level feedback, yeah, and it's about 20 minute time investment to do the survey.
00:22:29
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:22:31
Sonja
And I just think there's so much goodness about having more understanding there.
00:22:32
johnkattenhorn
Yeah.
00:22:37
Sonja
And that's such a great start to dig into the Ikigai Venn diagram that why not start there?
00:22:44
johnkattenhorn
Yeah, that's great.
00:22:44
Sonja
Yeah.
00:22:47
johnkattenhorn
With my techie head or techie speak, that's like doing self-diagnostics, right? I'm definitely going to go and do this.
00:22:54
johnkattenhorn
I promise I'll send you my results and don't hate me for them.
00:22:58
Sonja
Also, we'll have a separate conversation on that. Yeah.
00:23:02
johnkattenhorn
Okay, everyone. Well, that's about it for this episode. Apologies for there being a little bit of a gap. We both had our some of the locations. But if you find or have any questions about Ikivend diagrams or any of the other subjects, please feel free to reach out where you find this podcast or go and find myself or Sonia on LinkedIn or any of the other social channels. But that's it from me. Do you want to say goodbye, Sonia?
00:23:35
Sonja
Yeah, well, thanks everyone for listening and hear you next time.
00:23:39
johnkattenhorn
OK, Goodbye everybody. Goodbye.
00:23:41
Sonja
Bye.