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FTMB Episode #7 - Chad Hermansen
48 Plays1 year ago
David Talks with former Major Leaguer & Scout, and current Mental Edge Life Coach for Athletes & Parents Chad Hermansen
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Transcript
Introduction to Follow the Money Ball
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to Follow the Money Ball, a podcast at the intersection of sports and business. Here's your host, David Sloan.
David Sloan's Career as an MLB Agent
00:00:09
Speaker
I'm David Sloan and I have opinions. I also have 44 years of experience as an agent for MLB players to back those opinions up.
Guest Introduction: Chad Hermanson
00:00:19
Speaker
I would like to welcome my guest today, Chad Hermanson. Chad is a former professional player and a man of many varied talents and experiences in the world of sport. How are you doing today, Chad?
Chad's Early Life and Move to Las Vegas
00:00:34
Speaker
I'm doing fantastic, David. How are you? Excellent. Thank you. Excellent. So you live in Las Vegas currently. Is that where you always live? So I grew up initially in Salt Lake until I was about 11 years old. So grew up in the mountains. And yeah, my dad brought us out here to Las Vegas back in 1989, 11 years old and Henderson, Nevada. So just a few minutes away from the strip.
00:00:59
Speaker
So there's kind of two places in Vegas. There's like Henderson and then Summerlin when kind of the two big names and where you figure out where to live out here. And yeah, so I've been in Henderson since I was 11. So it's been my home for a long time. Well, I imagine when you first moved to Henderson, there wasn't a whole lot there.
00:01:18
Speaker
Yeah, that was basically the dam. Coming up from Arizona where I went to college and going to Las Vegas the first several times I went there, you know, you hit the dam and then when I first went there, which was back in the 70s, it was like, oh, there's a sign saying Henderson.
Las Vegas Growth and Chad's Childhood
00:01:35
Speaker
You drive past the gas station or two and then, you know, a few minutes later you're in Las Vegas. But
00:01:40
Speaker
And Anderson just blew up. Yeah, it was, uh, we, we now have the, the 15 that goes through Las Vegas has always been there. And now you got the two 15, which used to be called Lake me drive, um, just a street essentially. And so that's, that's turned into a whole freeway that really wraps around the whole city. And, um, so there was nothing like when we have a train track that goes through, you know, at least to where I'm at anyway. And there was really nothing.
00:02:06
Speaker
south of that track. And now there's homes all the way up the mountain. So it's expanded big time in the last 20 years.
Chad's High School Baseball Journey
00:02:15
Speaker
I reached out to you when you were a senior at Green Valley High School. That was the name of the school, if I recall correctly.
00:02:24
Speaker
And we got together and talked about what I brought to the table as potentially an agent for you because you were one of the best prospects in the country. And that was borne out by the position where you were drafted. You were what, ninth pick in the country? Tenth pick that year. Tenth pick. I was close. I was close. I was only off by one. Okay. You were tenth pick in the country, drafted by the Pirates. Now you were an outfielder.
00:02:50
Speaker
Fortunately for you, you were the 10th pick in the country. Unfortunately for you, it was the Pirates because they were a shit show back then and were a shit show for many years after they drafted you.
00:03:04
Speaker
And no doubt that had an impact on your career. I won't ask you to comment on it because I don't want to put you in a position where you're perceived as saying anything negative about the organization that signed you out of high school or anything.
Pittsburgh Pirates and Player Development
00:03:21
Speaker
But again, having been in the business myself and followed their player development, and I used that term very loosely because they didn't develop many players.
00:03:30
Speaker
their player development program back then, it was in fact a shit show. So talk to us about what it's like to be a high school prospect.
00:03:43
Speaker
and have many scouts at a time. There were a bunch of them. I know the game that I came out there to see you play. I can't imagine that was the peak. You probably had even more at some other games because the team you were playing the day I was there was not the greatest team. And I imagine when
00:04:02
Speaker
You played other teams in the city that had better prospects on it. You drew even more scouts and college teams that were all over you as well, I imagine. What's that experience like as a 17, 18 year old kid?
00:04:17
Speaker
Because they probably didn't just show up your senior year, right? When were you first cognizant of Scouts being present at your games and that they were there to see you as opposed to see someone else?
High School Scouting and Achievements
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's so Green Valley when I was my freshman year is when Green Valley opened. So that was around like the 91, 92. So it was about 92. Right. OK. So we already had, you know, in Las Vegas, we had nobody was really
00:04:45
Speaker
Well, there were some scouts there like three or four guys Manny Guerra was probably the main one who was always around Met Scout and then Carl kind of like old old-school Scouts We didn't know if they were full-time Scouts bird dogs But they were they were there because we had we actually didn't have a senior senior year class my freshman year So the big school before that was Valley High School, right? That's where Greg Maddox came from Tyler Houston
00:05:16
Speaker
Maramelli, Steve Rodriguez, all these guys. So Roger Fairless was the head coach of Valley High School and coached all those guys. He came to the new school, Green Valley, and was the baseball coach there. And so he came with a big reputation of developing players, extremely hard on them.
00:05:38
Speaker
You're going to work, right? I'm building champions here and we're going to work and get this thing done. It worked. My second year, my sophomore year was the first year of six straight state championships.
00:05:54
Speaker
That's impressive. Built a powerhouse. So if anyone's in the Las Vegas area, kind of west coast in a way, knows about the 1990s, mid-90s Green Valley teams, they just kind of, they were really good. They brought out a lot of players, a lot of kids went to college, you know, a few got drafted and all these things.
00:06:17
Speaker
As far as the scouts go, they were there starting my freshman year. I was 14, you know, I was 17 when I got, when I was drafted. So still pretty young, but it really, the big, where it really all started was the area code games. Um, the summer of going into my, my senior year, my junior year, uh,
00:06:39
Speaker
So we had very, very successful Little League teams that, you know, we got Little League World Series happening in Williamsport, Pennsylvania right now. So that 12 year old is the big like, oh, I got to get to the 12 year old Little League World Series.
00:06:54
Speaker
That didn't happen that year, but we knew we had a really good team. So the next year, the 13-year-old team, we went to the Little League World Series in Taylor, Michigan and took it all the way and lost to spring Texas in the championship. So we took second in the world and we were like, we got something here. The next year is 14-year-olds. We lost in the Western Regional Final.
00:07:19
Speaker
that were that close to going to the next year's World Series so we missed that by one game.
00:07:25
Speaker
the 15 year olds, we got, we won. We got back to the world series in Kissimmee, Florida, that kind of closer to your area back down there. So that was big back then, right? Kids still played the little league up until I was, I was a sophomore in high school playing there. That's kind of probably unheard of. I don't even know if it's still around anymore, but, um, but that whole nucleus
00:07:50
Speaker
created all the kids that went to Green Valley and then just we had played really well. You know, became a national, national rain team, you know, pretty quickly. And so, but that junior year when I got to the area code games, I was an outfielder my freshman sophomore year.
00:08:07
Speaker
And Coach Fairless said, hey, he came to me prior to the junior year starting. He's like, hey, our shortstop graduated. He's going to, you know, V, you're going to be my shortstop next year. Like you're the man for the job. Do you want it?
00:08:23
Speaker
And I'm kind of like, you know, you don't say no to coach, right? Like, let's go, let's do this, right? And he would scare you to death, you know, because he had this big intimidating look with the cowboy flu man shoe mustache, and he'd just stare into your soul and try to intimidate you.
00:08:43
Speaker
made you tough, right? And so he, you know, played a little, played shortstop in little league and then kind of infield, outfield a little bit back and forth there. I'm like, okay, it looks like I'm going back to shortstop. And so just working my butt off there, he taught me how to play short again and I could, you know, I had the tools, you know, and I could really hit.
00:09:03
Speaker
I hit for power, I could hit it all over the place, ran well, could throw hard. My accuracy was terrible, right? You probably remember that. I really kind of had the yips from shortstop.
00:09:17
Speaker
And so the struggled really mentally with that part of the game, just throwing, um, cause I was always, I always threw hard as I was that hard throw in little league. Right. But I would drill everybody, you know, no clue where it's going. I have no flexibility at all in my shoulder, but just like, you know,
00:09:36
Speaker
Um, which, which led to like, dude, this, I don't know if this shortstop thing's going to work. Um, but yeah, but then went to the area code games. Um, you probably remember the name. I think it, what was his name? Uh,
00:09:49
Speaker
So I would say Doug McMillan, the Giants, he was a giant scout, lived up in Northern California, invited me to come play on his team. Jimmy Rollins was the second baseman and I was a shortstop. So one like defensive player of the whole thing hit pretty well. And they're like, man, who's this?
00:10:10
Speaker
It was a six to 175 pound short stop. That's just killing it. And then became the big name, you know, as far as the top shortstop, it was me and Michael Barrett, right? That, that senior year. Yeah. And Barrett became a catcher and.
00:10:25
Speaker
Uh, there had to be a lot of eyes on Jimmy Rollins as well. And those guys were also on you. Yeah, Jimmy, Jimmy was actually a year younger. So he was, he was a year younger, but, and, and was, so he was kind of an up and coming guy and he was five, eight, 140 pounds. And was he really, that's tiny, but just flew everywhere. Like just, you know, he had it then, but yeah. So then after that, Eric code games, that's when.
00:10:52
Speaker
all the, you know, nothing was happening with college yet. You know, it wasn't as, as not even UNLV, nothing to like, nothing like serious, you know? And then after that, it just blew up. So, um, every, every major team in the country you could think of was sending me letters, trying to get ahold of me. And it was very overwhelming right at the beginning. I'm like, whoa, this is a lot. And then all of a sudden the agents came, right? Right.
00:11:20
Speaker
Like it looks like you're going to be a top guy next year. And, uh, so that all happened really quickly, um, within a matter of months, you know, so my, okay, I guess I'll just soak this in and see what's happening. But I knew I wanted to play pro ball. Like I was, school was fine, but I was like, nah, I'm going to be a big leader. And so that was my mindset and, um, worked, it worked really
MLB Draft Experience and Influences
00:11:43
Speaker
hard. My senior year, uh, got after it in the weight room, you know, did all the things that you're supposed to do and, and, uh,
00:11:50
Speaker
Ended up getting drafted where I was, you know, so it was a quick year That uh, you know, I I tell the story on my podcast too that you know, I had had Greg Maddox in my house, you know my senior year he Scott Boris guy and right right I was courting my services too and Yeah, so he he brought Greg Maddox a future Hall of Famer into my house and I'm 17. I'm like, this is amazing
00:12:18
Speaker
right? What is and what and what is happening? Yeah, well, for an area that really, at that point, didn't have that rate of population, Vegas still doesn't have a ton of people there in the metropolitan area. They had quite a productive baseball
00:12:41
Speaker
Uh, what do you, whatever you want to call it foundation or factory almost, because you mentioned, I recruited Doug Mirabelli. Did you ever play against Anthony Pluto? No, no. You know who he is? I'm not familiar with him. He was a pitcher. I'm trying to remember what high school he went to. Can't remember, but he wound up getting drafted. Um, um,
00:13:08
Speaker
Anthony Bonifacio, he was from there. He wound up getting drafted. Um, there was just a whole, I'm trying to remember. I had a lot of Gorman guys. Yeah. A lot of Gorman blowing up at Gorman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but again, for a place that, that didn't have millions of people in it, they produced a lot of players, a lot of players and, um,
00:13:32
Speaker
I'm surprised that nothing really happened until your junior year, but then again, looking back on it, again, coming from an area that didn't have a huge population and probably wasn't really known quite yet for being that productive. It was that, yeah, probably
00:13:50
Speaker
I would say maybe a year or two before your senior year was when Tommy Boudreaux, that was a guy, I represented a guy by the name of Tommy Boudreaux who was from Las Vegas. I think Centennial High School, there's a Centennial High School there. I remember the name. I don't know much about him, but yeah. Okay. That was the first guy who I ever represented from Las Vegas.
00:14:15
Speaker
you know, him and Daisa came after him. He's the one who referred me to Mirabelli. And it was right around then when the guys in your area first started really getting noticed. And then after you, it just, boom. I mean, a lot of guys, Harper and just all those guys from there, they started getting noticed and getting drafted. And then
00:14:40
Speaker
You mentioned the area code games. Was that the only opportunity that you had at that level in terms of showcase compared to what they're doing now where they're starting showcases at nine years old for kids? Yeah. Yeah. There was no perfect game. There was no PBR. There was, there was no showcase. There was an area scout will, would do a couple of workouts every now and then 60 yard dash, basically what a showcase is, right? Just kind of go through the.
00:15:10
Speaker
Get some BP take your ground balls throw from the outfield run that 60. They're just they're getting some numbers looking at the players in the valley That's all the skills test skills test. Yeah, that's all it was get to know them a little bit That was pretty big back then like when I was an area scout that was I think we did that wasn't really a thing we didn't really do workouts because you it completely changed where you you were gathering all that information and
00:15:36
Speaker
now from, you know, a showcase or an event. But yeah, but that was actually kind of fun, right? As a kid, you're like, yeah, I'm going to the Blue Jays showcase or tryout. I'm a workout. You know, so it was a you were invited to it. It wasn't like a cattle call. Like if you can pay, you show up. It was right. Oh, there's eight kids in the valley. We're going to go work out for an hour and a half type thing. So it was a yeah.
00:16:06
Speaker
Well, and it wasn't like you were trying out for a team either. It was like you're already on a team and they've taken note of you and, and you know, wherever you are, whatever sport you're playing, unless you're brain dead, you kind of know who the other players are in the area that are thought of as being pretty good. Who are some of the other players from that area that you played against that you kind of looked at and, you know, realize, Hey, this guy's pretty good.
00:16:35
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, right after me, we had several that like my best friend, Nick Day, he became my former client, Gatorade Player of the Year. Right. So he, Nick went to Stanford, which is a big deal right out of high school. So he, Nick Day, Taylor Myers was a second round pick the next year. We had a couple of minor leaders that were drafted. They, some of them went to, you know, V were drafted a couple of years later. Um,
00:17:04
Speaker
Ryan Ludwick. Right. He had a big career. Great, great, great career. Kind of a guy that probably.
00:17:14
Speaker
wasn't quite a big prospect right out of high school, but it was really, really good.
College Recruitment and Decision-Making
00:17:19
Speaker
Went to, you know, V and became a star, you know, V and then continue that onto his pro career. Yeah. He grew into it. Yeah. A lot of, a lot of guys probably like a lot of bigger, like Kevin Eberwine. Um, he was my year. He got up to triple A with the Padres. Um, a lot of kids went to college, you know, went to pretty decent San Diego States and Arizona. Um, a lot of guys like that. Um, Dave Krenzel.
00:17:44
Speaker
Came out of Green Valley a few years later. I recruited him. Yeah, he was like the 11th pick by the Brewers one of the fastest guys, you know, yep a 6 to 6 360 guy Yeah, he could run he could run his dad. His dad was I don't know how well you knew mr. Krenzel but Let me be nice and say he was very difficult to deal with I
00:18:10
Speaker
his dad thought that his son was the second coming of Mickey Mantle and Dave was a good player and as you noted about drafted pretty high but again let me just leave it with saying Mr. Krenzel was difficult, difficult to deal with. So at any rate okay so now you mentioned your preference was to sign but
00:18:36
Speaker
You were recruited by all those schools with you. I assume picked a school and said, if I don't sign, that's where I'm going to go. Yeah. And what what school was that? So I might. I committed to Miami. Right. So Ron Treasure, Turtle Thomas, Jim Morris. Oh, Morris was of course was the coach. So Turtle Thomas wowed me out in Miami. I mean, it came down to Miami and Arizona State.
00:19:06
Speaker
Arizona State had just got Pat Murphy, I believe, well, from Notre Dame. He was like in his first year at Arizona State.
00:19:18
Speaker
So they came down to those two. And if I would have known I was for sure going to go to school, I probably believe would have gone to ASU. Because it was closer. Closer to home. Like it's there. There's a lot of history. But Miami was the number one team at the time. So, you know, that's where my mindset was like, no, I'm going to the number one team. And it was actually really the only visit I went on.
00:19:40
Speaker
Um, I was so keen on like, let's just sign and get this over with like, I'm going pro like, so, um, and guys like, uh, he, I guess he wasn't as big of a prospect than me. Think of like Pat Burrell, right? Pat Burrell was a 95 guy too. Yeah. Went to Miami and became.
00:20:01
Speaker
Pat Burrell, right? Ben Davis, the top catching who went number two overall. So a lot of those top guys were signing with Miami. I'm like, wow, pretty decent. So, well, turtle was a great recruiter. Yeah. Like it was, you know, Miami wows you with their stuff and, and, um,
00:20:21
Speaker
kind of looking back at I laugh a little bit because I'm a pretty laid back guy. Just I say I'm West Coast in a way. So kind of almost the the opposite demeanor. What Miami is is pretty, you know, it's just different, right? Right. So I don't know how well I've even would have fit in there. And so yeah. So yeah, it worked out that way. And draft happened and
00:20:49
Speaker
Here we are, you know, well, we'll get into that in a minute. My relationship with, uh, with coach Morris was, was kind of schizophrenic. Um, there was a player who was there last, it probably would have been right around the time you were recruited by the name of Jason Michaels. And, um, Jason was a prospect and he wasn't getting any.
00:21:13
Speaker
There were no agents interested in it. And I can't remember who it was, but there was somebody else on that team that I was recruiting. And Morris, I went down to Coral Gables to talk to him about somebody else. And Morris said, well, you know, we got this guy, Jason Michaels. Would you take a look at him? Because he's good. He's going to sign with someone.
00:21:34
Speaker
But for whatever reason, agents haven't really taken notice of them. There's, you know, these other players. And again, I can't remember who it was, but there was a guy on the team that was pretty highly touted that I said, Oh yeah, sure. So, you know, took a look at him. He looked like a pretty decent player. I thought he had a chance. So yeah, I talked to him, recruited him. He became my client strictly on the basis of Jim Morris telling him to talk to me and him telling me to talk to him.
00:21:59
Speaker
Fast forward to 99, so a couple of years after you, there was a player out of high school that I represented, second round draft choice of the Royals by the name of Kiki Bengoche, a right handed pitcher from Miami. And Kiki went to Miami and played there for three years and had a pretty decent career. And now it's his junior year, he's getting ready to be drafted and I'm sending him emails and calling him and I'm not getting any response.
00:22:27
Speaker
Well, I wound up getting in touch with his father and his father was just embarrassed. That's the only term that I can use to describe it.
00:22:37
Speaker
His father was embarrassed to even talk to me and tell me what had happened. And what had happened was Jim Morris had gone to him and said, you're a big prospect now. I mean, he was second round prospect out of high school. It doesn't get a whole lot bigger than that. But you're a big prospect now. You need to have a big prospect agent. You should have Scott Boris represent you.
00:22:58
Speaker
And unfortunately, Kiki wound up going with Scott Boris instead of me. And that's what his father was embarrassed about because I had done a great job for him out of high school. Didn't tell him to take the offer that he didn't want just to sign a contract.
00:23:13
Speaker
Um, stayed in touch with him, gave him good advice the whole time he was there. And when push came to shove, um, I still have a small scar in my back from, you know, the knife, but nonetheless, so that was my schizophrenic, uh, uh, relationship with coach Morris.
00:23:29
Speaker
He did produce a lot of players. Miami went to a lot of NCAA playoffs. They hosted a lot of tournaments at Miami, but a different kind of guy, a different kind of guy. So now it's getting down to the point where the draft is coming up for you. You mentioned you just wanted to get it over with and get signed and go out and start playing.
00:23:52
Speaker
The draft comes, you get the call saying, hey, we've taken you. Would you have any idea ahead of the phone call that the pirates were going to draft you? Yeah, they were. They were the team that they were the one team that worked me out. So that was kind of a big thing where they had one of their in Las Vegas, in Las Vegas. Yeah, they had to fly you back to Pittsburgh. Correct. Yeah, it was they came to me and you know, we were just.
00:24:19
Speaker
Kind of a regular Joe family. We couldn't go fly anywhere and spend money to go do that type of stuff too, I think so. They flew out like they're kind of one of their main scouts, Ken Squeaky Parker, if you remember him. Old school guy from Mississippi. So he flew in and
00:24:37
Speaker
kind of, if you remember Matt Williams, of course, Matt Williams. So he kept bringing up his name. He's like, man, you remind me of Matt Williams, because Matt was a shortstop, you know, V moved to third. He's like, I see a lot of Matt Williams in you. And I'm like, and at the time, this is 95. Matt Williams is a superstar in the big box. Yeah. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Thank you. You had a great career. Wow. So that was big.
00:25:04
Speaker
But yeah, so the the Pirates, from my understanding, they they came down, if you remember, Reggie Taylor, yes, outfielder from the South. They were interested in me and Reggie. They wanted to take a high school bat for my understanding. And so.
00:25:20
Speaker
did their due diligence, everything they wanted to do, and they end up taking me. And so, yeah, I had the whole party, had all the news crews were in the house, you know, this wasn't on TV like it is now. And so, yeah, it was a great experience. Jeff Morad is the agent who I ended up going with and who actually represented Matt Williams, ironically.
00:25:45
Speaker
But yeah, it was just, it was pretty smooth sailing and Cam Bonafate was the GM at the time. And, um, you know, who was the director of players of scouting or player development? Do you remember? Player development was Paul Tenelle. Okay. Yeah. And so.
00:26:02
Speaker
17 years old, you know, and they're like, hey, you know, the negotiation part was it went pretty quickly where they're like, you know, Pittsburgh's a small market team. They don't got the most money. And so they're like, hey, we'll give you what the 10th pick out last year. And that was Jarrett Wright. Right. The right handed pitcher pitches for a while in the big leagues. What will you accept that number? And it was.
00:26:27
Speaker
totally fair. I'm like, let's go. You know, let's do this. Um, I wasn't the kind that's like, no, I want, I want a hundred grand more. I want to meet that number. I could care less really. Right. Um, let's just go.
Transition to Professional Baseball
00:26:39
Speaker
And so, yeah, signed it. My parents hugged my parents a couple of days later. He sent me off to, to rookie ball in Bradenton, Florida. And, and, uh, yeah, it was, you know, you're on your own, dude. So now you're in, now you're in beautiful Bradenton.
00:26:57
Speaker
Yeah, which quite a highlight from that had to be big time culture shock going from, well, not so much Las Vegas, but going from Henderson, which is, you know, you flew out of the Las Vegas airport. So going from Las Vegas and landing in Bradenton. That had to be culture shock.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm 17, right? I don't know any better. I'm like, Ooh, I'm just, the first thing you notice is the humidity, right? Cause flew out to Miami and you feel it right away from joy and like, okay, you know, and
00:27:32
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I mean you get to rookie ball and you recognize, okay, we got to wake up early in the morning. We get our breakfast. We go do a workout, you know, kind of the batting practice ground balls, all that stuff. And just the routine. Then you come in for lunch and then you go, you go play your game at one in the afternoon in Florida heat. And you're like, this sucks. This is
00:27:54
Speaker
But this is fun, it's exciting, but man, this is kind of brutal, you know? And they were kind of like, yeah, you want to just play well and you'll get out of a rookie ball pretty quick. And so I ended up playing pretty well. I went like seven for eight in my first two games and got off to a really hot start and got caught up to Erie, to the short season team. They were a few weeks into their season.
00:28:20
Speaker
Now, now I'm playing with college dudes, you know, I'm 17. These guys are 22, 23 years old. Um, yeah, so it was a pretty cool experience to kind of that first summer. It was interesting. What was it like socially? Cause now again, you're, you're going from rookie ball and you're going from high school to rookie ball, where most of the guys are about the same age as you. Although some of the Dominican kids may have been a little older or younger, whatever.
00:28:48
Speaker
Um, cause they signed them pretty young and by the time they brought them up to rookie ball, they might've only been 16 years old or some of them, they keep around a little longer. But in general, most of the guys there were pretty much the same age. So now you're an Erie. And as you say, you're, you're there with high school or excuse me, with college kids who are 22 years old.
00:29:08
Speaker
and what was that like because that must have been an adjustment maybe not so much in terms of the baseball aspect of it because it's still three strikes and you're out but in terms of dealing with these guys who are
00:29:23
Speaker
you know, staying up till two, three, four o'clock in the morning, chasing women, drinking beer or whatever. And I can't imagine that that was your lifestyle at the time. Yeah. No, it's so I went from the, I went from the dorm life right in rookie ball, like you have a roommate and there's bunk beds, um, to now you got it, you're getting the apartment with three or four other guys that are, these are all college dudes. Um,
00:29:47
Speaker
You're 100% right. Like I had to know going in, okay, what are my goals? Like what's my intention? I'm gonna be with older guys that have more experience in that area of going out and I knew I wasn't gonna be a drinker and go be a party guy. I wanted to stay focused on what I wanted to do. So it's actually really easy for me to,
00:30:15
Speaker
I don't know if people could like, I was never really bothered like, Hey, you know, Hermey was kind of my nickname, but let's go. I'm not, I'm not doing any of that stuff. So that, that didn't really, it didn't affect me much. Um, and I, I guess people respected that. Um, but yeah, I was living with college dudes and they, they were, you know, they weren't crazy by any means. So they were all good, good guys. And, um, that kind of continued till next year in a ball lived with a few more guys and, um,
00:30:44
Speaker
So I don't have any of those crazy stories where like guys are going out to bars and getting, um, some of my teammates did, you know, that I didn't live with. They would get in trouble and end up getting released, you know, cause they end up in jail, all that stuff and messing around with alcohol and women. And, um, so that certainly happened. Um, but yeah, I just, I kind of had the blinders on that way. Like, no, let's stay focused on what you want and let's, let's get to the big leagues in three or four years here.
00:31:14
Speaker
How much pushback slash resentment or however you want to term it, did you get particularly going from rookie ball to Erie in terms of you being the number one pick? Because I know starting from my college roommates who played ball one was an
00:31:38
Speaker
picture for the royals and one was an outfielder for the Giants just listening to them after they came back after their first couple of years of pro ball and saying well you know this guy was doing this and this guy was doing this and then they brought in the number one pick and you know they
00:31:53
Speaker
And the bonus boy took his job, that kind of thing. Yeah. Oh, so I dealt with some stuff in regards to, it was maybe more internal for me, but being young and I knew that in the background, like I knew like, yeah, guys are going to be looking at you, like you got this money. So you better play, like you better, but I kind of, you kind of already know that, right? So you kind of just let your play
00:32:19
Speaker
And the way you show up, the way you treat people, um, I'm a very, I guess, low key kind of guy. So I'm not like, I'm not a look at me, dig me kind of guy. So I'm not like, I'm just there to do the job and have fun, but also like, nah, I want to win and get good at this, at this.
00:32:40
Speaker
I think for me, I was 17, 18 years old, you know, playing shortstop. And I was still trying to kind of figure it out. And I was making a ton of errors, right? I was, I could catch everything. I had no really issues with that. But man, throwing that ball to first base accurately was really hard for me. And so I was making throwing errors on routine ground balls.
00:33:03
Speaker
in my mind, I think it was maybe more like the pitchers. They're like, oh, there goes Hermanson making another error, routine ground ball. This guy's our first rounder, you know, so that would get in my head quite a bit. Um, and it was kind of my first taste of the mental game of like how important this is, like believing in yourself, you know, and just kind of
00:33:27
Speaker
not letting the others affect you, but it did big time for me and within the two years of going from that short season to A-ball, high A, double A, multiple errors, multiple amazing plays too. Like it was in there and I think that's why they were like, dude, this guy can really do it if he gets out of his own way.
00:33:47
Speaker
By the time I was 19 in AA, I'm like, get me out of here. Like, this is, this is not fun. You kind of like, remember Derek Jeter when they were saying he was making 56 errors in AA? That was me, right? That was me just throwing the ball all over the place. And so that became to where it was not fun.
00:34:07
Speaker
And I'm like, do I even want to do this anymore? I'm, I'm hitting. Wait, hold on one second. When you say, do I even want to do this? Are you talking throw ball or playing shortstop? Playing, mainly playing shortstop. Yeah. Like, cause it's kind of like, well, let's just be tough, right? And let's just work through it. But I also felt like I wasn't really.
00:34:27
Speaker
Like, is there anybody to help me with this? Like, can I, like, I'm all here and I don't even know, like, how do I get out of this, this thing, the thing, if you will, right? So, of course, I think coaches and stuff could see something was happening going on, but they're like, hey, just don't think about it. You know, just throw it over there. And I'm like, that's what I'm trying to do.
00:34:51
Speaker
It's not working. Right. It's laughing because I can identify with it. Um, when I first started in high school, I was playing third base and I didn't have the yips, but what we called it back then was scatter arm. If I was playing third base, you did not want to sit behind the first base dugout. Yeah. But you're in danger. And yeah, exactly. Um, and, and.
00:35:16
Speaker
You know, pretty soon they moved me the right field because they wanted me to be in the lineup, but didn't want me playing third base.
00:35:31
Speaker
Because, even though, like you said yourself, I could catch most of the balls hit at me. I still have some scars from balls that bounced off my shins. Because at third base, you either catch it or you don't. It's by you. So, I can identify with you in terms of the way, on a much lesser steel, the way that it eats you up mentally.
00:35:57
Speaker
it's just it isn't fun it isn't fun because you know your teammates you're letting your teammates down you're looking foolish in front of you know in my case the seven people that showed up for our high school games i don't imagine you had huge uh numbers of fans in braidenton um i don't know about eerie but nonetheless it's just it's a cascade of
00:36:22
Speaker
shit is the only way I could describe it in terms of my experience. And if it doesn't affect your hitting, you are some sort of superhuman being because there's no way that you can't carry that into the dugout when, you know, the other team scored two runs and both of the guys got on base because you made an error. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. And for some reason I was able to somehow separate it a little bit, right? Where I kind of, okay.
00:36:51
Speaker
That's how I mentalized it. I guess. Right. Without even really knowing what I was doing. Right. But then I knew, like, OK, I made an error getting the dugout. I got to like we call it flushing it. Right. So I got to flush that without even really knowing what I was doing. But then I'm like, OK, I'm going to go rake now. Yeah, there was that switch like now. And that was the fun part. Right. Let's go hit.
00:37:16
Speaker
Um, so you feel like you were making up for your intensive shortcomings for sure.
Challenges in Professional Baseball
00:37:22
Speaker
There were some points like that. Like you in your mind, like you have this phrase, like you better, you better make up for that. Um, and I, I'm such, I was such a people pleaser too, where I was like,
00:37:34
Speaker
I wanted to go hug the pitcher and be like my bad dude, like I'm so sorry. I'm sorry I screwed this up for you. And that doesn't really help too, right? That's in baseball terms, like there's a lot of different words we can utilize for that. But yeah, so like just air after air after air and you're like,
00:37:55
Speaker
okay, maybe I'm not good enough to be here. You know, maybe I'm not good enough to play this level. Then you realize like, dude, you're 17 years old and against 23 year olds, like you're gonna figure it out eventually if you just keep working hard at it.
00:38:08
Speaker
Was that truly your process back then? I mean, I realize you, you recognize it now at your age, but when you were there in that moment, did you recognize that then? Okay. No, I was, I, it was more, cause we, like, even though I was the first round pick as a shortstop in my, I guess, heart, which connected to my mind, I'm like, dude, you're going to end up in the outfield. Right. And so like.
00:38:34
Speaker
just do the best you can. Right. But also like, it was, it was just scary in a way. Yeah. You know, so you're away from home, you're away from home at 17 for the first extended period of your life. Um, so I imagine, you know, every night you're calling home and talking to mom and dad, or I don't know if you had a girlfriend back then. And you know, you're, if so, you're talking to her. I mean, it's a difficult situation at 17. Um,
00:39:03
Speaker
I turned 17 10 days before I graduated high school. And then I started my freshman year college. And I was calling home after about two or three weeks, I was calling home every night. Get me out of here, please. I hate this place. Let me come home, please, please, please. And I wasn't kicking balls around in the infield. So I cannot even begin to imagine what that had to have been like.
00:39:30
Speaker
because you're in a strange place, you're with a bunch of people that you don't know, and even worse than that, that, and please, if I'm wrong, correct me here, that's the sole focus of your life. You're not looking at this as a step to another step. I mean, for me, my original career path was to go to college and get my degree in political science and then go on and become an attorney.
00:39:57
Speaker
For you, that wasn't even close to being the case. This is it. This is your whole focus of your life and has been probably since you were eight, nine years old. This is all you wanted to do in your life. And you're out there kicking balls around the infield. Well, not kicking balls, but you're, you know,
00:40:14
Speaker
You're in this the first time like and you made a good point like in Bradenton. Yeah, there's no fans It's just you're in Florida and rookie ball But now you're you're playing at night and now you got a couple thousand people there a couple hundred people there and you're throwing balls away and For the first time ever you start hearing like boo. You're like how much money did they pay you? You're a bum, you know kind of the negative chatter for the year from people. Yeah, and you're like
00:40:42
Speaker
Oh, like this sucks, right? And you hear it, you know, because I'm like, I don't know how to, I'm focused, but like, quiet and you're like, yeah, of course, everyone heard that. They're like, you're the bonus baby, you know, so, so that, that certainly weighs on you.
00:41:04
Speaker
And at this, but at the same time, you also kind of know, like, this is what you signed up for, dude. Right. This is, this is how are you going to work through it and get through it? I'm like, well, I'm just going to continue to hit and just do the best that I can here. And again, that was your thought process at that time.
00:41:21
Speaker
Because I just felt that my confidence is way higher. Okay. As a hitter, I'm like, okay, I can hit these guys, right? I can do, I was, you know, the first time that somebody wowed me in pro ball, my very first game in Erie was Jose Guillen.
00:41:39
Speaker
Remember Jose Guillen, the right Pirates right fielder, right? He's supposed to be the next Roberto Clemente from a pirate standpoint. He he hit right in front of me. I think he was probably hitting third. I think I was hitting fourth and he hit a ball, caught it deep. Huge booming sound home run to right field. It went off the right field foul pole. And that was like the first sound or crack that was like, whoa, like that was a little different. That was big.
00:42:11
Speaker
But then I was also like, I can do that. Right. Well, how about the adjustment from now? Were you swinging wood bats in high school? No, I practiced with wood. My senior year. Yeah. I was kind of advice given to me, like start, start swinging wood and practice a little bit. Right. So you had swung a little bit, but you still had to adjust. Yeah. Yeah. And it was bomb bats back then. You had to swing a bomb bat. Okay.
00:42:38
Speaker
So what who was the first pitcher that you that you faced that really made you kind of sit up and take notice that it's not because in high school, you know, most high school pitchers that you're facing, either they throw real hard and that's what you got to watch out for. Or they got a good breaking ball and that's what you got to watch out for. But you don't face too many that have both, right? Yeah, they're.
00:43:08
Speaker
So now you're getting to pro ball and it's like, okay, there's his fastball. Oh, he can, he can spin it too. Yeah. Yeah. Who was the first pitcher that you face? If you can recall it really made you say it's a different game now. The first name when you said that's jumping out to me was probably not, I mean, I'm sure there was some guys in a ball, but I probably, I can't remember their names, but double a carry. Right.
00:43:37
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Well, Kerrywood was same draft. I think he was like the fourth pick, but faced him. Um, they were in Orlando and you know, he's, he's throwing 94 to 98.
00:43:49
Speaker
And then has this hammer, this curve ball that just first guy that really ever buckled me. In fact, he, he buckled me. I vividly remember he buckled me. I don't know what a bad it was, but with two strikes, he buckled me with his breaking ball, like broke my back. Whoa. Yeah. What just happened? And even the umpire missed it. Like he must've thought it was up or something. And because I was turning around like, okay, I'm, he got me there. Right.
00:44:19
Speaker
And I'm like, no way. The crowd goes and they're like, what? And I don't know why, but he threw me a next pitch fastball, probably 96, and I got on top of it and smoked it right back up the middle for a hit.
00:44:34
Speaker
And I'm like, what is he doing? Like, dude, just throw the breaking ball. You got me. Yeah. No chance. Yeah. No chance with the hook. And he throws you a fast ball. Like the first guy, like you saw like, dude, that ball is exploding out of his hand. Right. And he's six five. He was still pretty skinny back then. Probably one 90 for six five. Um,
00:44:55
Speaker
But yeah, then you kind of started to face, like, you know, there's more guys like that that kind of, as you go up. Uh, but there were guys that threw hard, like in the, the lower levels that were around 95. Um, but yeah, is it going at your head, right? Is it missing, missing the foot, you know, the bull Durham pitcher, right? It's that guy that's, he has no idea where it's going. So that's how I felt his shortstop.
00:45:23
Speaker
Well, Kerry would buckle a lot of people. Yeah. So 19 of them in one game, if I recall correctly was, yeah, that had to be a, let's call it a learning experience. One other thing I'd like to ask about the period when you first signed, and then I'd like to go on to your experience later on in pro ball. What, if anything,
00:45:47
Speaker
What role in your mind at 17, not looking back on it now, but at 17, what affected the money have on you? Did you look at it and I got all this money now or was it more like, okay, I got this money because I was the 10th pick in the first round and that's there for my future and I'm not going to think about it.
00:46:14
Speaker
What was your mindset in regard to that?
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I was, I don't know. I guess I've never been really money driven. It was more like, I want to achieve these things and then that, I guess the money will come. Right. Um, so yeah, I mean, I, so I got seven figures as a 17 year old and I'm like, holy crap. You know, this is, um, this is pretty cool. I remember, I remember that I told you all these interview people are newscast. People are at the house.
00:46:45
Speaker
And they're like, you know, like, I feel like they're almost a little more excited than I was. Yeah. This is so awesome. This is so cool. Like, did you sleep last night? And I'm like, yeah, I was good, you know. But yeah, I know I made my, you know, I bought my first, I got a Yukon, you know, and Yukon was on pretty big back then before Todos came out.
00:47:07
Speaker
So that was my first big purchase and I guess I was actually probably a little too generous with it. I bought my brother a truck. I bought my dad a truck. So we got all these cars, but it was kind of more like, thank you for all you've done for me. And I guess thankfully that I had that approach because
00:47:34
Speaker
that put my signing bonus in jail. I played 13 years total and I didn't make a whole lot of money when I got to the big leagues. Cause I, it was so up and down spread out over six years that it was net, nothing was really consistent. Um, that my bonus really sustained me in my family through that whole 13 years of the ups and the downs. It was there because when you're playing, you're kind of,
00:48:00
Speaker
first, I don't know, seven months, you're kind of almost spending money on two households. Oh yeah, definitely. You are. You're paying rent at home and rent, which you don't know that right at 17. You're just kind of like, no, but yeah, it was, um, do you have a financial advisor helping you with? Yeah, we, we had the guy at my, my agent set me up with, with the guy they work with and, um, was trying to, so that made it a little easier, did the mutual fund thing. And, um, and it was really like, I was kind of like,
00:48:30
Speaker
Okay, just take care of it. I don't know if you remember this story, but when I was 19, I was a part of that, and I'm trying to... John Gillette.
00:48:45
Speaker
that whole thing that went down in 19, I was in AA 1997 where him and his secretary basically stole millions of dollars from all his clients. 100 grand for myself through fraudulent things.
00:49:04
Speaker
she would sign the athlete's name to certain things and would release funds. And I'm 17, 18, 19. I'm not looking at my money every day. So I don't know what's really happening. And yeah, so he's I think he's still in prison.
00:49:21
Speaker
for a lot of that stuff. So I went through that experience at 19 and I'm just like, you know, these different circumstances that happen that you have no control over. Um, and, and I'm like, I guess I handled that pretty well for a 19 year old. Like it didn't affect me. I'm like, yeah, I just got a bunch of money stolen from me, but I got to go play tonight. Yeah. Well, and that's a hundred thousand after taxes. That's a kick in the balls. Yeah. And you're like, wow, that's a bigger deal than you thought. But, um,
00:49:50
Speaker
But yeah, you know, 17, I just want to play ball. So what year was it where they shifted you back to the outfield? That was in, so that was in 99 in double A when I, and I don't know, we were probably, I don't know, maybe a month in the season. I can't remember how long it was in the season. And, um, and I'm really trying, like I'm really trying, you know, they, and I also kind of felt like I didn't have the help. Um, and I was too scared to ask for help. Like.
00:50:21
Speaker
or even I guess recognize there's something wrong with me. And you remember what I said earlier about the pirates develop. Yeah. And I, and I, I don't know any better. Right. It's just all I know. And, uh, but I'm like totally in my head with all that stuff. And, um,
00:50:35
Speaker
And I think the coaches know it. I think everyone knows it, but they're like, they don't know how to help me. They're not trained in that. You know, they're like, just stop being a P word, you know, stop being soft. That was the answer to everything. So yeah, you just kind of feel like you're on an island. And then I just finally,
00:50:54
Speaker
came to kind of after losing sleep over these things and like just not feeling healthy about it. I'm like, I got to go talk to my coach. You know, like this is killing me. Like I. So wait a minute. You initiated that as opposed to them. Oh, yeah. I went to my manager. His name was Mark Hill, Booter Hill. And I go, I go, Booter, like I I'm done.
00:51:17
Speaker
Like I can't do this anymore. Like you need to stick, you need to call the organization. What have you got to do? Like you need to put me in the outfield. Like I cannot play another game of shortstop. Like I mentally I've checked out.
00:51:32
Speaker
And it had in 19 going to tell your double-a manager like you don't know what is going to happen I was just like was that the mark hill that played in the big leagues. It was a catcher if I recall correctly. Okay, yeah I can't believe it that he's not the one that came to you and and and talked about it But again, that was the inadequacy of what you were dealing with in terms of the way that Nowadays it's almost
00:52:00
Speaker
No, it's not almost. It's, it's way beyond the fact that teams are afraid to let players fail in their development because they believe it'll crush them back then. And particularly in certain organizations like the one that unfortunately for you, you were in, um, they just threw you to the
Player Development Shortcomings
00:52:17
Speaker
wolves. And if you failed, you failed and they let you go eventually. Um, as opposed to now, particularly for the higher drafted kids, they're afraid to let them fail.
00:52:27
Speaker
Yeah, I had a, I had a client out of high school who at 17 went straight, didn't, didn't go to rookie ball, went straight to short season and dominated whatever it was, Northwest league or, or pioneer league, whatever it was, throwing fastball, curve ball. That's all he had. Well, after that, the team that drafted him took him to the instructional league and insisted that he learn a changeup and they changed his arm angle. And for him to be able to throw the changeup.
00:52:56
Speaker
Well, you know, let the batters tell him what he needs to throw a change up. When you're out there, best pitcher in the league at 17, go on two pitches, let the batters tell him you need another pitch. And, and my thinking on that was always that if you go to a guy who's having success and you say, Hey, you're having a success with fast ball curve ball.
00:53:20
Speaker
You need to add another pitch. He's going to be kind of resistant. Well, why I'm killing it. What do I need another pitch for? As opposed to you got a guy who's been successful, fastball, curveball. Now you put him in a league where that's not enough and let him struggle a bit. And now you come to him and say, well, you know, the reason that you're struggling is because you moved up a little bit and these hitters.
00:53:45
Speaker
They can either lay off your curve ball or they can turn your fast ball around. Maybe you need an off speed pitch because there's not enough difference in terms of the velocity between your fast ball and your curve ball to make them recalibrate, you know, their bat speed, so to speak. Um, but it's just it.
00:54:07
Speaker
I don't think it's a good way of doing things, but I didn't think the way that they drew guys like you to the wolves was a good thing either. So, so now you're in double A and you're a month into the season and you're moving to the outfield. Yeah. And did they work with you on it or did they just say, okay, go play the outfield? No, it was, um, no, it was like you're playing center field tomorrow tonight.
00:54:34
Speaker
That's how quick it was. So the last time you had played in the outfield was your junior year in high school, sophomore year, sophomore year in high school. And here you are. Let's see. One, two, three, four years later, five years later. Yeah.
00:54:54
Speaker
You're playing center tonight, Jeff. And that was totally fine. Oh, I'm sure. It was relief, no doubt. And I played some outfield. I played outfield in the airy coats. So I was able to show I could do both. Centerfield to me was just all natural. Yeah, but there's nothing like reps.
00:55:15
Speaker
No, exactly. And so I worked my butt off and when I work with kids nowadays, you know, as far as, you know, when I was in that arena, the best thing you can do is take live balls during batting practice, like bust your tail off in batting practice and go live.
00:55:34
Speaker
because you need to read those balls off the bat. Fungo's getting hit from outfielders, coaches, that's kind of just what you do to get a little bit more reps, but there's nothing that beats that live.
00:55:49
Speaker
knew that I guess right away. And I'm like, I'm going to spend around in every BP and just work my butt off. And so that was my routine that I developed when I was 19 right away. So, um, the kickers starting in center field and that's a huge relief. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I interrupted the kicker. Well, so, so, and I, and I'm doing great. Like I, I'm, I'm the, the, the weight of the world feels like it's off me now. Right. Go play the outfield, go do your thing.
00:56:19
Speaker
I think i made the all-star team that year you know double a doing well i'm in the last month of the season. The coach comes to me i can't remember who is who is marker. Whoever they're like hey what what do you what your thoughts on second base.
00:56:38
Speaker
And I'm like, well, what do you mean? You could maybe possibly be like a Ryan Sandberg at second base. They didn't say that, but they're like, you could be a 2020 guy. They were kind of profiling me like, you got the power, you got the speed. What if we try to get second? And I'm just like, are you freaking kidding me right now?
00:57:02
Speaker
Oh, don't put me on the dirt, man. Don't put me on it. But of course, like be the org guy. Like, well, I, I guess I'll try it, you know, half heartedly. And, um, and, uh, I did a podcast with Tony Beasley, who was the third base coach with the Rangers now spending the big leagues for quite a while. Um,
00:57:25
Speaker
He tells a story about he's in Calgary on like he's, he's in his thirties and his last year to a plane. He doesn't know it yet. And, uh, they call him in, in Calgary, they said, Hey, we need to, we need to send you down to double a, um, Hermanson is where we're going to move Hermanson to second. And we need somebody to coach him and teach him. Um, and.
00:57:52
Speaker
Oh, by the way, you're done playing like we're, we're, we're, they're going to release you or we think you would actually be an amazing coach. So we want to give you a coaching opportunity. So they brought him down, um, to be kind of like a player coach, essentially. And Tony's like, he's in our, in our interview, he's like, yeah, man, they sent me down there to like work with you a second base. He's like, I don't even remember doing any of that. I'm like, yeah, I don't either.
00:58:24
Speaker
So like that, you know, like, I guess we just feel ground balls with each other. So it was just kind of like, again, try second base and nothing's been fixed mentally of what's going on in my head about
00:58:38
Speaker
you know, I guess the fear of throwing the ball away, but the fear of my inaccuracies and all these things and what's happening. So nothing's been addressed there. Um, and so now it's a completely different situation. It's a completely different position. There's almost really even closer, right? Like, how can you not make this 20 foot throw? You know,
00:59:01
Speaker
Well, in the double play, the double play is completely different as a shortstop. When you're making a double play, second base, you're catching the ball and the next thing you know, the guy's on you. And of course, I was money in practice and infield was just good. That game hit and my mind went to a completely fear-based thing.
00:59:27
Speaker
So I, so I, so we finished the double A season, right? And cause, cause their thing was too, like, and I totally get where they were coming from. Like if you can do like an average job at short or second, like you're Jeff Kent, you're Ryan Samberg. Like you're an all-star. If we send you to the outfield, you're just, you're just a guy who knows, who knows, right? Um, I think it might've also been based on,
00:59:56
Speaker
their assessment of what was in the organization. They may have felt that they had more outfield depth than they wanted and they wanted to figure a way to get you into the lineup because they, number one, had given you a lot of money. Number two, saw your potential with the bat and figured if we can have all these guys in the outfield that we like and that
01:00:23
Speaker
when we're a better team than we are trying to squeeze, let's say five guys in the three outfield position. A hundred percent. Yeah. And you're kind of like, and I was still so young, like I didn't know how the org stuff worked, like kind of what they're thinking. And I just want to play. But then you get older, like, OK, what what's the strategy here? And so then I go from that double into the fall league. So I get into the fall league. I'm playing second base.
01:00:50
Speaker
Um, go off hitting wise. Um, I think I still hold the record in the Arizona falling for the most run score. So just killing it, like hitting home runs or something against very good competition against the best, right? The double AAA guys. And I'm 19 years old, just turned 20. Um, and then I going into my 20 year old first year of I get, I make the triple eight team in Nashville, second base.
01:01:21
Speaker
And I'm like, dude, this is like, feels like the big leagues to me. Like I'm holy cow. I'm in triple A at 20. Um, well, when you're playing against guys that have been in the big leagues, these are guys I've seen on TV now and they've been, they've been sent down or they didn't make the team out of spring. And so it was exciting, but it's still scary, you know, and still trying to figure it out.
01:01:45
Speaker
Long story short, again, another, I last three weeks, four weeks, a second, can't figure it out, making errors, you know, and it feels even bigger because now these are, I'm affecting these guys from getting to the big leagues is what it felt like to me, like these pitchers. And so that last four weeks did the same thing. Trent Jewett was my manager. I go, Trent, I go,
01:02:10
Speaker
This is like, I don't even know what I said, but I can't do it anymore. So it felt like, of course, I'm like, am I giving up? Am I giving up too soon? But I also feel like I'm not getting the help to speed this up. And so I was like, I need to get back to the outfield. And so they,
01:02:34
Speaker
they're like, okay, like we'll do what you want to do. And which I was like, where's it? Cause I had no clue where it's going to go. They're like, no, let's just keep battling. Let's keep working. And, um, but I don't know if they just didn't have, they didn't come back to me with that option. You know, like, um, they would bring in the infield coordinator and maybe do some things and Hey, it's your fee that you're set up. Yeah. Just, uh, it was all physical, right? I'm like, this guy here,
01:03:05
Speaker
Can we get some help here? And I didn't know how to do that or ask for it. And I'm like, I'm a mess. Well, Chad, I'm sorry you went through that, but that, I'll tell you what, I can't remember not telling a client of mine ever. And the whole time that I was an agent from very early on, don't even talk to the pirate scouts.
01:03:35
Speaker
Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Don't even, if, if they come up and they want to talk to you or they want to work you out, you've got a dental appointment or whatever it is, because no, I mean, yeah, I had clients that got traded over there and they just told me everything that you've said, everything that you've said that, that, you know, they just, they basically say, here's the bats and balls and go out and play.
01:04:00
Speaker
and the guys that they thought did better moved up and the guys that they thought didn't do well got released or got traded away. And it wasn't the we are family organization anymore because by the time you got there,
01:04:17
Speaker
I remember when they were sold, but it wasn't too far away from where you were drafted by them. But, but even, you know, after sharding Peterson, I think it was left there, things started to go downhill pretty quickly. And the team didn't want to spend money. Um, you know, once free agency came in, they kept up with this, Oh, we're a small market team. We're a small market team. We're a small market team. Well, you know what? So Cincinnati.
01:04:45
Speaker
And they had how many world series champions? So it was Kansas city. They were, even when the teams there weren't championship caliber, they were always competitive. Um, Minnesota twins, they small market team there, but the twins just develop player after player after player after player, who either went on to be successful or them, or, or they used them as trade bait and acquired another player in return.
01:05:11
Speaker
So it just, Pittsburgh was just a black hole. I think, you know, maybe be nice about it. Okay. So now, now you're in double A and they move you to the outfield. Yeah. Yeah. You, you, was it the same sort of reaction as when it happened before the weight of the world came off your shoulders? Yeah, for sure.
01:05:39
Speaker
Yeah, so Tranjua was my manager, went into him, and I kind of say the same story over, right? I can't do this anymore, like give me the outfield. I was back in the outfield that night. He actually hit me some fly balls, hit like 30 fly balls, I think just
01:05:57
Speaker
Can I trust you? Can I trust you? You can catch this ball and, um, I'm like, this is so easy. Just chuck it back into the infield. Right. Um, and went on and hit 28 home runs, you know, I'm the youngest guy from that point forward or for the whole season. Well, just, yeah, cause it was, it was like a few weeks, I think into the season when I said, okay, enough's enough. And you hadn't gone deep too many times before that. Yeah. No, I was, I think I was hitting. Okay. Hitting. Okay.
01:06:27
Speaker
you know, um, but you know, going back into that infield dirt, it was like, uh, like it was anxiety, so much anxiety, which I didn't know. Um, but yes, it was that, um, so yeah, 20 years old, 28 home runs, um, kind of the rest of the story goes, um,
01:06:52
Speaker
after my, after that year, when I was 20, I hate to bring like almost this story up, but I guess it's just part of the story. And so, um, the big league hitting coach after that season, um, he would kind of probably, I'm assuming he would contact the top prospects and like, how did everything go? Um,
01:07:12
Speaker
Hey you did great, had a great year, a lot of strikeouts, 150 something strikeouts, you know which I guess comes with the territory of being young and young hitter right and so we need to
01:07:24
Speaker
You need to figure that out, need to cut down your strikeouts. I remember you kind of have this chicken wing to your swing, which is, you know, that lead elbow working back, which I kind of just had some natural lift in my swing without even doing anything with that. So, hey, let's get you more like direct to the ball. Didn't even really share like how to do that. Like let's just get you more direct to the ball thinking more maybe down and through it.
01:07:53
Speaker
Backspin the ball, right? Yeah, I can do that. I'll work on it all off-season. You got it. Show up, make Nashville again, 21 years old, and go out. This was the best year I've ever had, was the thing I hit, like, 270-something, 32 home runs, 97 RBIs I'm hitting in front of, Aramis Ramirez, right, who's a borderline Hall of Famer, turned out to be.
01:08:23
Speaker
Now I'm an outfielder and have been labeled as the best outfield prospect we've had since periphery bonds. That's high praise. So I'm like.
01:08:37
Speaker
Okay. I'm like, I hit 60 home runs in two years. Like it's all there, right? Yeah. So have my best year all star, all that stuff. Um, get called up to the big leagues. Um, have my first game. What part of the season? This is September. So September call. Okay.
01:08:56
Speaker
I had my first game and go 0 for 3, but I smoked a ball the very first game. Reggie Sanders snow coned in and like, I'm feeling good. Like I'm here. Like I've been through all this crap. Um, were you playing center? I was playing left. Okay. Left. Yeah. So we had, at that time there was, uh, Al Martin and Brian Giles. Okay. You know, Giles had just come over. Um,
01:09:25
Speaker
Cleveland, I think, right? Yeah. Jermaine Allensworth, uh, Adrian Brown, I think was in that mix. So there's, so now I'm starting. So second day I go, well, I mean, I need to, let's go work. Let's, I didn't get to do my routine the first day. Let's go to the second day. And so I start hitting with the hitting coach, right?
01:09:44
Speaker
And in order for me to kind of work down through the ball, I over exaggerated in flips and T work. So I'm kind of, I'm getting a little bit steep, you know, hitting turns choppy, but I'm trying to backspin the ball through the back of the cage. Hit down through it pretty hard. So about, I think he was flipping me like 10 balls in a row. And this, what I remember is he stops, he's kind of like, he's like, what the hell are you doing?
01:10:15
Speaker
And I'm like, my eyes go big. And I'm like, well, what do you what are you talking about? What do you mean? He's like, well, you're you're too steep. You're bats in and out of the zone. You're you're chopping your bat. And I'm like. So imagine like now what's happening here. And I'm in my my immediate thought was like.
01:10:35
Speaker
You told me to do this a year ago and I just did it. I just showed that it worked with my best year ever. And now, now you're telling me something different, like to change your approach, like let's get, cause your bat's in and out. Let's get you flatter.
01:10:51
Speaker
And that that's all true. Like you want to keep your bat in the zone longer in the zone. But that translated for me of down, like as I as you turn like that actually gets you flat. Right. That was how I hit. You know, that it worked. And so in a nutshell, that day. He's like, no, let's let's get you like lifting the ball just a little bit. So that's what it felt like to me. So
01:11:19
Speaker
as you can imagine, changed completely my approach and my mindset back to like an old way that didn't feel right to me anymore. So now I'm just like, but I guess the thing that still sticks out to me was he said, you can't hit like that here.
01:11:37
Speaker
Like this was some major stage, some major thing. And so that felt heavy to me. I'm like, oh crap, like now I'm back to, am I even good enough to be here? Like so I'm playing the I'm not good enough game. And so just that little conversation in a matter of like a couple minutes registered with my right now 21 year old brain,
01:12:03
Speaker
Like I'm not good enough to be here. I have to listen to all these people. Yeah now I'm still not trusting my ability of what I can actually do and I'm good right and now with me and my coaching practice I do like that became interference for me and Now I gotta please this guy and do everything he tells me to do Or else I'm gonna get in trouble or something or get sent down. Yep. That's So that
01:12:33
Speaker
set off for me. I was 21 at the time. I played till I was 30. In a way, I felt like a victim, but I also played the victim because now I utilize that as a crutch for me. Every time I struggled, I would go back to like, well, yeah, because you change your swing.
01:12:54
Speaker
I'm laughing because just a moment ago when I was talking about how I used to have my client tell the pirate scouts that they had a dental appointment or whatever, I was thinking,
01:13:11
Speaker
At the end of every episode, I reintroduced my guests and say this is so and so on. I was thinking, oh, should I introduce you as a survivor of the Pittsburgh Pirates organization? I don't think I survived.
01:13:28
Speaker
Oh, you're, you know, you're in one piece, you're not in an institution. Yeah. Um, so, uh, you know, I would say you survived. No question about it. I would say you more than survived. You succeeded. You had a, you, like you said, you played 13 years all told in pro ball. And then you went on to, to other, uh,
01:13:53
Speaker
positions in the game, you were a scout, etc. Yeah, I'll tell you what, we've been going for a while now, and my producer just walked in and showed me a note. So what I'd like to do, I'd like to wind it up. And I want you on again, because I want to talk about from where we are now, at the point where you are
01:14:18
Speaker
being given contradictory information and how that's eating away at you and go from that into the latter portions of your career and how that led you to where you are today imparting the knowledge that you gained from all of this
01:14:37
Speaker
Slat out abuse and neglect that you experienced imparting that knowledge on to other people that you're hoping don't have to go through the same sort of
01:14:50
Speaker
abuse and neglect that you went through. That'd be fantastic, yeah. Seriously, it's- I looked at the time, I'm like, wow, we've been going. I know. I know. Well, look, when I, when I talked to you over the phone, I said, you and I just sit there and talk. Lost in conversation. Exactly. And that's the enjoyable part of it. But you know, it's like, what you went through is very similar in characteristics to
01:15:15
Speaker
an abusive relationship husband and wife sort of thing because you loved the game. You didn't necessarily love the Pittsburgh Pirates. You loved the game. But the part of the game that you loved was abusing you mentally. It was making you doubt yourself as a man. It made you doubt yourself as a player. But yet you kept going back to it.
01:15:42
Speaker
Despite the abuse and you tell me because you've had more training than I in terms of dealing with mental health issues Because of your coaching mental coaching career if that's not the definition of an abusive relationship. I don't know what is Yeah, it's
01:16:02
Speaker
It's so that's been the hardest part, I guess, to like just talk about it and bring it out because like the last thing I ever want to do is like, dude, are you making excuses because you didn't, you know, become you didn't play 10 years in
Reflecting on Career and Coaching Methods
01:16:14
Speaker
the big leagues. You didn't become that star. So that's always weighed heavily on my mind in regards to like, do I even share this story? And then I find out, you know, talking to more of my teammates and players.
01:16:28
Speaker
you know, surrounding that. And I want to be completely frank. Like I don't hate the Pittsburgh organization. I don't hate my coach, you know, that did these things. I do truly believe that they had, they did their best with what they knew and what they had, but there were no tools or there were no coaches to talk to you like what they have now. So I think that's where the game has really progressed.
01:16:53
Speaker
Well, not only that Chad, and again, we're probably going to, but not only that, but, but we were talking about Mark Hill, your, your coach in double a think of how he was developed.
01:17:04
Speaker
Think of what things were like for him when he was 19 or 20. There wasn't anybody telling him, hey, when that guy stole second and you threw the ball in the center field, here's what you did and here's what your thought process was. Forget the physical side of it. Here's what your mental process was. You were thinking about the last time you threw a ball away instead of just letting your mind be blank and letting your body take over and do what your body's capable of doing. That wasn't the mindset then.
01:17:31
Speaker
You know, it really wasn't.
Interview Conclusion and Future Plans
01:17:33
Speaker
So my guest today has been Chad Hermanson, a survivor of the Pittsburgh Pirates organization, who I've known for many years now. We will get back to this because there's a lot of other ground we need to cover. I've enjoyed this tremendously and I hope you will come back.
01:17:53
Speaker
Um, I'll touch base with you in the next week or so and we'll get something on the calendar. All right.
Listener Engagement and Feedback
01:17:58
Speaker
Yeah. Sounds good, David. Thank you. And that's it for another edition of follow the money ball with your host, David Sloan to make a comment or a suggestion for a future guest, reach out to David at follow the money ball.substaff.com. Thanks for listening. See you next time.