Transcript
johngrimsmo: good morning and welcome to the business of machining episode 469 my name is john grimsmo
John Saunders: And my name is John Tunters.
johngrimsmo: And this is our our weekly touch base manufacturing podcast where we talk about, you know, what's going on in our heads running our. multi -person companies that make really cool stuff.
johngrimsmo: And we love what we do and we take a lot of pride in it. And it's really nice to have a private. conversation with a good friend that nobody listens to. And we just get to like.
johngrimsmo: think things through.
John Saunders: Yes. that.
johngrimsmo: dot com.
John Saunders: Yes, yes Yes. Uh... How are you?
johngrimsmo: I'm good
John Saunders: Good.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, things are okay.
John Saunders: Things are okay.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Everything's so everything's fine.
johngrimsmo: Everything's fine. Everything's fine. It's ah funny. ill I'll talk about it later, but I went to a show over the weekend and I would ask people um you know how's business? How are things going? And everybody just has their default.
John Saunders: Yeah. Right.
johngrimsmo: Everything's fine. Everything's good, good, good. Yeah, this it's good, good, good.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And it kind of started to annoy me. And I just did it there. It's like, no, like... What's going on? like I want to know.
John Saunders: Yeah. Right.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: Complaining. i don't think we complain it's more just
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: There is a lot to say for attitude. and All that. And I had. I alluded to it last week. We'll talk about it some today. i had of very I was not my best self last week, for sure.
johngrimsmo: Oh.
John Saunders: really cra Just frankly. crappy week at the shop. um And. you know we talked we talked about it just a second before we hit ah record here but um Yeah, this will we I'll show you a little bit more, like so much better.
John Saunders: this week like i Really, it's almost unbelievable how our mind plays tricks on us. I'm like the lows of the lows and the highs of the highs, right?
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: do You see that?
johngrimsmo: Yeah, that's very interesting. Yep. You don't see it when you're in it. as much as you try and then the fog clears a week to go by you're like oh what was i even worried about like oh i forgot about that already but it's like the worst part of your life like that happens and it's
John Saunders: Right.
johngrimsmo: I don't have any answers. but
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: Right. Yep. Well, that's my list Talk a little bit about that just in the spirit of being candid. I wanted to talk a little bit about the AI stuff that we. talked a smidge about last week and then Um.
John Saunders: just all the awesome stuff that's going on this week with the new machines um shatter home assistant measuring tools the Lex improvements and so forth. That's my list.
johngrimsmo: Nice. My list is... um Fjall button lock material. um The show that I went to. Uh... My note says a deeper desire for a white light interferometer.
John Saunders: even deep I mean, last week you were hot on it.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. even deeper.
John Saunders: even deeper
johngrimsmo: Um, Yeah, that's my list.
John Saunders: Um, Fjall material is the one that we talked about like a year ago, right? When you were buying, you bought some like not custom material, but like really, okay.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: It was called Custom. It was called 465 Custom. because Jeff GPT convinced me to buy.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: you know ah I forget how much I spent, but a few thousand dollars of material is the wrong material.
John Saunders: ah
johngrimsmo: It's bad.
John Saunders: Oh John.
johngrimsmo: It's just the wrong wrong thing for the application. and uh that's kind of like a revelation of the like And I did my research, i even outside of chat. um But.
John Saunders: Okay, yeah.
johngrimsmo: ah But it just was too soft. It ended up like 52 Rockwell at best, and I need 60 plus for this application. um It just didn't work out. It's a great stainless. 465 custom but it's just not hard enough or impact resistant enough for this need. So we started with 440C.
johngrimsmo: which is a good classic blade steel material available in round.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: um I didn't like it because... ah carbide grain clumping.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: causes polishability issues and it was also kind of too soft. um We settled on M2. which is a tool steel.
John Saunders: Ooh. You know, those the old.
johngrimsmo: Good old M2.
John Saunders: If you're going to grind a milling bit or something.
johngrimsmo: Yeah exactly. um it works fantastic we're getting like 64 rockwell out of it um and it's relatively easy to machine. The problem is it is not a stainless. It is a...
johngrimsmo: ferrous steel or whatever. um and so it can tarnish. over time. in customers' hands and due to each individual's little pH levels in their thumbprint.
johngrimsmo: um So I've seen pictures posted online where the button is not the silver it was when it left the factory, but it's darker. And that's unfortunate. it It is something we're trying to alleviate. And we've worked on different finishes versus like polished versus blasted and buffed and things like that. And we've settled on a nice frosted finish that does its best to.
johngrimsmo: maintain. That finished. But I still want to get a stainless in there. but I need a stainless. that is that hard and available and round and there's a lot of caveats that i want right um
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: two that I've settled on that I have been testing with, a variation of D2. which is the... slightly more chromium version of M2.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: And it's not technically a stainless, but it has so much chromium that it's like.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: just under the stainless limit.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: and super solid available in round all day long. So you can get D2, you can get spray form D2, and you can get powdered D2. It's harder to find the powdered stuff.
John Saunders: Oh.
johngrimsmo: And it's basically just better and better grain distribution, smaller particles and more even homogenous matrix kind of thing.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: But the middle one, the spray form D2 is very available. and is... um We bought some from McMaster, except it was this huge diameter that we had to like rip down to to get to the right thing. But they seem to work. They seem to polish well. They seem to get... hard enough they seem to do well and then The other one is 420V or...
johngrimsmo: PM for powdered metallurgy 420 um that is a true stainless and that's working very very well too so it's now it's the decision between the two is like where can i find it and how much is it and i have to get centerless ground bars and has to be available and all that stuff so im
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: finalizing that, rounding the corner. of that which is good
John Saunders: the I have a lot of questions. the Okay. here's a rate weird one though like your average junk or medium quality high speed steel drill bit which i don't know that it's m2 it could be probably open.
johngrimsmo: M2, M4, other stuff. yeah
John Saunders: Yeah. I have found and we've all had stuff rust whether it's the basement tools or you know, the truck tools type thing. Rarely, if ever, have I seen rust spots on.
John Saunders: drill bits.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: Now I'm not saying...
johngrimsmo: I. I think I have.
John Saunders: Yeah, maybe you have.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: i just we We've all had enough things like where it's like, oh man, I left that out, that rusted, this rusted.
johngrimsmo: Eh.
johngrimsmo: Right, like instantly.
John Saunders: Yeah. And I just don't commonly see that on drill bits. It just makes me wonder, is it? with the button is there a way to do true permanent coding or would you
johngrimsmo: There is for sure.
John Saunders: You want... the button head to be impervious to skin oils but the button head isn't what needs to be hard it's the actuating side would you ever do a two -piece like an insert where you push a a metal a metal cap into the button head.
johngrimsmo: You know, I've briefly thought about it, but just kind of dismiss it because it is a very small part.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um, Not to say it's out of the question, because you definitely could either screw together or. a a permanent press.
John Saunders: Yeah, you sure.
johngrimsmo: Where you could you could make it from two totally different materials if you want you can have a titanium head
John Saunders: Right.
johngrimsmo: um And like a whatever. super hard bass. That's interesting. um One of the other features is... machinability of it. because even M2 kind of...
johngrimsmo: Where's the cutting tool? sooner than we'd like and starts to smear some like really critical features
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: and then those have to be polished and if they start to like streak or have weird spirals or something like that then then the knife feels weird and
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, it's it's interesting. so it's like this little challenge we're trying to solve of find the optimal material for this application
John Saunders: Well, that's what's weird.
johngrimsmo: um
John Saunders: It seems like the applications are divergent that what you need for the the contact geometry at the hardness is totally different than the aesthetic yeah polished aesthetic
johngrimsmo: That's true.
johngrimsmo: than the head. Yeah, yeah that's that's a good point.
John Saunders: What a...
johngrimsmo: Yeah, next next time I'll i have it. um section view infusion i'll just like eyeball what a two -piece press fit would look like but they're pretty small Actually. Or you could do it that way. Interesting. Okay.
John Saunders: Hmm. light bulb.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, I was thinking
John Saunders: Would you ever consider making the whole thing out of carbide?
johngrimsmo: ah You've mentioned that before. um
John Saunders: Sorry, I don't remember mentioning it.
johngrimsmo: i I don't know. I don't think it'd be economical.
John Saunders: That is... but I...
johngrimsmo: When does that ever stop?
John Saunders: mean Yeah, I mean, kind of. like Um,
johngrimsmo: I do worry about the the brittleness of it.
John Saunders: I feel like.
johngrimsmo: Um, Because it does get kind of small. It's like the neck is...
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: I don't even know, 75 thou? diameter
John Saunders: Oh, really? Okay.
johngrimsmo: something like that like like the skinny middle part.
John Saunders: Interesting. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um that gets pretty small and there's some impact force and
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: things like that.
John Saunders: Okay. My last question is a little bit random. but I think it's probably... a great sort of question we all struggle with the shop owners so you bought some 465 custom material round bar you spent some money on it sucks lots of costs not going to work What do you do with the material?
johngrimsmo: Right.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know like currently save it for a rainy day kind of thing, but I have 10 bars and I have nine and a half left You know?
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: four, three foot bars or six?
johngrimsmo: Six foot bars.
John Saunders: Yeah, so you get some material.
johngrimsmo: It's like thousands of dollars in material.
John Saunders: Okay.
johngrimsmo: Um, And I know, I think Danny Rudolph was playing with like a used... extra tool configurator that he can sell all of his inserts and end mills and stuff that he's never going to use to other instant machinists.
John Saunders: Oh, that's a good idea, sure.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. And, you know, he was playing around with some app that that allows that and i haven't heard in a few months but it's a neat idea hard to maybe it's not that hard but get people on board and like actually make it useful because you might have a pack of inserts that I need, but you probably don't you know it's like everything's so like weird and segmented
John Saunders: Yeah. I'm not going to look there, but we all see it.
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: Like some people will do the Insta stories where it's like, hey, here's all the stuff we're selling, which. I think if everybody did that all the time, it would make Instagram less fun. Now I'm not trying to throw not trying with throw shade because...
johngrimsmo: That's true.
John Saunders: wondering if we do it ourselves but like
johngrimsmo: Right. but that said like um one of the guys i follow posted a picture of an ultrasonic polishing machine. that he was thinking about buying and he's like anybody you know
John Saunders: o
johngrimsmo: know anything about these. And I was like, I actually have one. It didn't work for what we need and I've been toying with the idea of selling it. and like maybe and he goes dylan from proteum is also looking for one so between the two of us and now i'm like
John Saunders: Someone's gonna buy it.
johngrimsmo: Do I want to get rid of it? because ah I have it. And the... I kinda want it. but I'm not using it. And I don't know, I don't know where it's at, but.
John Saunders: because my I'm predisposed to keeping it under the guise of like rainy day.
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: And I know that that's often not right. I've had to. Trick myself into the default is always you need to get rid of it You need to purge it because otherwise you just won't.
johngrimsmo: Yeah
John Saunders: And so we're quickly coming up on another. iteration of that because we're um bringing the two The two new next two new brothers are really finally coming online now. And so we have the horizontal. in the two old VF6s that had a bunch of tooling that was laid out in racks. Those end mills, collets, holders are getting broken down. and We just don't want that stuff anymore.
johngrimsmo: Do you have any?
John Saunders: And so.
johngrimsmo: Cat 40 stuff you do.
John Saunders: Quite a bit. Yeah, we still do
johngrimsmo: Yeah. like the gene genesis and
John Saunders: We have a VF2, we have two Genesis, we have a Doosan, and we have a VF3.
johngrimsmo: Those are all cut for you.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: They're all still California. um
johngrimsmo: Oh, you have a big deuce on too, right? I forgot about that
John Saunders: Yeah, right in the funny
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um So...
johngrimsmo: madam
John Saunders: That that's more were interesting than material materials. I feel like so hard to sell for.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: You have a round bar, maybe a turn, like, or maybe you do a runoff. I'm not trying trying to tell you what to do. I'm just wondering, like. If it's nine and a half bars and you've got a bar fed lathe, maybe you make a. limited edition you know fun widget thing.
johngrimsmo: thing that needs, yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yep. Yep. or like a full stainless saga or something like that that
John Saunders: Oh interesting.
johngrimsmo: Right, like... Yeah, something.
John Saunders: But like not not so much headache that it's a challenge, more like, hey. It's a Grimsmo. You know, Tyson Blaine does such a good job of this. it's the
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: 40 to $200 products that are.
johngrimsmo: Mm hmm.
John Saunders: that price point that are interesting
johngrimsmo: Eric was really bugging me about that the other day. He's like, I feel like we're we're missing a total. Easy run. you know, potential here.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: and And my argument is, if it's easy, there's not much value in it. um because like anybody could do it but you know in the knife world there's pry bars Everybody makes a pry bar.
johngrimsmo: And I don't know if you're even aware of this.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: you know machine titanium pry bars with a little pocket clip on them and stuff like that and it's just cool a lot of people do them the barrier for entry is pretty low there's not a ton of like specialness to it
John Saunders: Yep. Yeah.
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: sure you can machine it cool and you can make it pretty and you can anodize it and all that stuff but uh i don't know we've gotten really good at making things that move and click and you know flick and bounce and have mechanical action to them which is part of the fun
John Saunders: i Hear you
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: But that. brings it into a price bracket that's not sub $200. Um, so we were spitballing with some ideas because i like the concept of like just keep um a machine running with this kind of stuff you know make it so easy to throw in the tumbler quick assemble and ship it and it doesn't have to be like everything has to be like perfect champ for everything like white light interferometer surface finishes kind of thing but Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I struggle with that.
John Saunders: But John I think you're... selling yourself short. I think as popular as you are, your customer base, I think you could literally do. a run of, okay, so let's hear you have.
John Saunders: Let's say you have 10 bars, nine and a half bars, six foot, 600 inches.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: You could do a 500 edition run. of machined desk. posts. like just a freaking outfixes material diameter.
johngrimsmo: Three eights, probably.
John Saunders: Okay. Yeah. So the aspect ratio probably matters for something, but like turn it, polish it, engrave it, make them addition. and just sell these for 30 bucks.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: is the grim of I mean, this is probably a better version of this than just that. Done.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, there's something.
johngrimsmo: Hmm. I'll play. i'll ah
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Love my brain noodle.
John Saunders: Sure. So you're you're good on the... You think you're good or you need to order new material for the, that you said you're going to deed, you know.
johngrimsmo: Uh. I need to find the source for that material i've bought test pieces that are way the wrong diameter
John Saunders: uh -huh OK.
johngrimsmo: Um, And I emailed um one company that says they stock this material and they do their own centerless grinding. So I'm like, sweet, double win.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um, And I don't need critical type.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: surface finish tolerance kind of on the grinding i just need it Swiss lay the ball. Um,
John Saunders: got it
johngrimsmo: So yeah, they never got back to me. So I need to like bug them again or send it to somebody else at that company.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: get them to get a reply call them something yeah So that's where I'm at with that.
John Saunders: Cool. I am. turning my head a few times because i just like an hour ago hooked up. shatter to home assistant.
John Saunders: which gives me home assistant visibility into each of our three brother machines. And that's really something I was looking forward to doing because um Well, it's easy to get pie in the sky and think of a lot of cool things that you can do.
John Saunders: pointing it back in. It really helps. offer an elegant solution to win. when everything in the shop is no longer running, you can shut the compressors off. um
johngrimsmo: to know that fact. Okay.
John Saunders: To know that. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah, interesting.
John Saunders: And funny enough. them. because it seems like chatter is really like. Not. a thing anymore. I know the toolpath isn't working on it, but it sounds like. some of the server stuff. that new i don' I'm not getting into it, but...
John Saunders: Grant this morning vibe coded his own for the Willamette and the Doosan. He just showed it to me and it's working. I'm like, wait, what? um Now, I don't know if that's just a local. i don't know I don't know more about that.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: I don't think it's truly the same as chatter, but like it's there. And I was like, wait, can you talk to... Ask Claude for on your end what you could do. for like an mqtt protocol to push that into home assistant because if i can have Will them in.
John Saunders: I think. the Doosan, the brothers. And then I need the genos, which I'll come back to. all with visibility and a home assistant, then... it occurred to me i can build this workflow out where we can test it for the next month we don't ever actually shut the compressors off but what i'm going to do is you create I think they're called States in Home Assistance.
John Saunders: And then it states. have all these sub criteria and the sub criteria would be something like all the machines are idle and have been idle for more than 10 minutes or something and no one's in the shop which we can detect that with either motion detectors or if anyone's phones are on the wi -fi
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: um and it would never run this say during working hours or if it does it on the weekend it could even don't really want to email everybody because that feels spammy but you could say hey I'm going to shut the compressors off in 20 minutes.
John Saunders: tell me if you don't want me to um and i can test that oh and then the the real thing that i think is cool is
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: I'm gonna build this test. Sandbox where it will practice dry run that for the next month.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: where every time it thinks it was going to shut the compressors off, it's then also going to send me an email with an attachment. The attachments will be screenshots of every one of our machine cameras.
John Saunders: And that will then help me quickly look and make sure. I didn't get any false positives because I i like can't.
johngrimsmo: Validate. yeah
John Saunders: It would just be so demoralizing if and Automation Run got stopped because of an incorrect flag.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah
John Saunders: Or like. Dr. Phil saying he's going to. like if Lockwood shuts our machines off. through shatter or something, so.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Interesting. That's cool to hear because i've been I haven't played with Home Assistant yet. I've done some research. I have some needs that I would love to have like like machine.
johngrimsmo: usage utilization power consumption things like that and then i got thinking about
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: air air consumption which machines are consuming the most air because we just leave our compressor on like 24 seven and it. due to air leaks or machine spindles that purge air or whatever.
John Saunders: Right.
johngrimsmo: it It bleeds a lot of bear. And I don't think we have a lot of leaks throughout the shop that I'm aware of. But that compressor is running. like way too much.
johngrimsmo: Um,
John Saunders: Yeah, and I like so electricity is going up with prices in the whole
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: data center, et cetera, et cetera. and um it also creates by far the most heat.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: So it's like the one thing where I'm like, no, I really would like to. to say I think we could probably save a hundred bucks a month making this up.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: but Yeah. Because your compressor is running Sunday morning, but like... Unless the current got really... loaded up it's is your current running on average Sunday at 9am.
johngrimsmo: No. No.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: at best it'll stop saturday night which is great but like saturday night to monday morning
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Great.
johngrimsmo: The shop's just quiet and the air compressor's running.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And, you know, if I come in on that Sunday and i the compressor is running, like I hear it running, it's idling or like spooling up or.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: whatever.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And I'm curious where those leaks are. I mentioned this to Amish and he said, don't your machines have like eco mode where they. close off the ball valves when the machine kind of goes into sleep mode.
John Saunders: Oh, interesting.
johngrimsmo: And I got thinking about that. And on the Tornos lathe, there is an eco mode. And I. played with it a little bit and poked around and i set it to like a 15 minute timer and came back 15 minutes later and it didn't seem to shut the air off So.
johngrimsmo: I stopped there, but you know if you read the manual or something like that, it should tell you what that means. um But I know the current doesn't. turn the air off after it like sleeps. Maybe I don't have the sleep mode turned on.
johngrimsmo: um I don't know
John Saunders: My two cents is like... You're going to just have leaks. Like even we've noticed because we've been here 10 years now that a lot of our regulator.
johngrimsmo: Sure.
John Saunders: it's not uncommon for a one of the regulator filter housings that have the class plastic bowls those bowls will get cracks. Some of them are micro cracks.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Some of them are more than micro cracks.
johngrimsmo: Mm hmm.
John Saunders: You could, as a maintenance, I don't go try to check everyone and that'd be great to do, but the reality is. it's gonna happen
johngrimsmo: Yep. have you seen those um i think fluke makes one and others too it's like an ultrasonic or acoustic leak detector where it's like it yeah like directional microphone kind of thing and it can hear or see the leak and it can like even in a loud shop in a noisy environment you can be like oh this airline over here clearly whatever tighten it up gone
John Saunders: Oh really? Remember we talked about this years ago.
John Saunders: That's cool.
johngrimsmo: Sounds expensive, but awesome.
John Saunders: But I think my... All right. a bad leak would suck but like i don't think i care about the leaks because during the normal shop the leak is Point. 1 % of our air consumption. that's It's irrelevant.
johngrimsmo: Is it?
John Saunders: That's a fair point.
johngrimsmo: I don't know.
John Saunders: Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah. what I do care more about is when the leaks cause the cycles, the compressors to cycle.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: after. effort
johngrimsmo: officer.
John Saunders: when they're not being used.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: I'll tell you, part of what we talked about last week was we were... our Our second backup compressor is good.
johngrimsmo: Oh. Last week you you said... Terrible week got covered in oil and then you said I'll tell you next week So I don't know what happened with the surface grinder.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: What happened? Now's your chance.
John Saunders: Yeah. um i I didn't share any of this.
johngrimsmo: Sort of. Not really, no.
John Saunders: so
johngrimsmo: sort of bring back memories but we want to know
John Saunders: No, it's fine are compressor overheated it ends up it was just a stuck thermostat like which is great and in the end it's not a complicated part it's not
johngrimsmo: Mmm.
johngrimsmo: Still a mechanical failure. It's too bad.
John Saunders: yeah and it was hard the c -clip was um difficult to see and get to to it was a there's like a narrow gap to reach it and so when we put the c -clip back in um It wasn't fully seated. That's on me. Full stop. like Not looking to pass the buck, but it's on me. um And so when the compressor.
John Saunders: turned back on and came up to pressure. the cap blew out and blew oil all over me like all over me Probably a solid two hours to clean up. um And you know it was my mistake. I didn't. wasn't going to ask anybody else to do the work but then it was also my wife's birthday so i was like i can't leave i have to leave on time today um and then we were down the compressor I literally threw my clothes away at the shop. I keep an extra.
John Saunders: i keep extra clothes here just mostly if i get really dirty for some reason normally not because i literally had to like take them off and throw them away but like john covered in oil.
johngrimsmo: Cheers.
johngrimsmo: Oh my gosh. gosh
John Saunders: Luckily, it wasn't hot, so it wasn't. an issue there. But um that's stonk. And then... Prior to that happening, I had set up a second batch of parts that we wanted to rework by just just dusting like a fowl off of the top sides of them. We weren't happy with an end mill finish. They were otherwise, this is like the. peril of automation it made.
John Saunders: 50 parts and we were like, man. Nobody would have the right to complain or reject the part. Bye. we would rather be better and we're happy to put the time in to make it better We kind of like won't do rework.
John Saunders: anymore when it comes to like building new fixtures and machining but i was like hey i can put these on the grinder 20 at a time and just kissing that way. It's like easy.
johngrimsmo: What size part? What are we looking at here?
John Saunders: a deck of playing cards.
johngrimsmo: Okay, laying flat
John Saunders: And... No, tipped off.
johngrimsmo: Uh...
John Saunders: And I ran the first set fine. I blocked them in. I was doing very light step downs. I'm not like trying to. claim I was in the right but I also wasn't naive to this.
johngrimsmo: No, like... we We need this context, you know? I need to know.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: So. What I wasn't thinking about was the failure mode, because as soon as a part would in any way in any way tip over, even... 0 .1 degree then you're now taking a...
John Saunders: tenth of a grinding pass and turning it into the hypotenuse. And that's what happened. The first match went fine, which is further. confidence inspiring.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Totally.
John Saunders: um because the the parts were solid, like they were solidly mounted, they were solidly blocked in, but something happened. I don't even know what. And so.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Um, The good news is that Grinding Wheel was literally... on like I was just. i actually ran these because i was like well i might as well run those on this wheel because i'm it needs to be replaced anyways and might as well use this wheel for them and the wheel was I mean, you could have dressed it out, but it would have been a mess.
John Saunders: um through the parts scared me first time i've thrown apart on that grinder which I'm proud to say it's been two years and I never did, but it stinks.
johngrimsmo: Mm.
John Saunders: The worst is. Annoying is that it the way it threw the part it put like four or five actually probably more um skid marks in the chuck And so I Got cutting stones to knock the high spots off. Then I use my PFG stones.
John Saunders: a little bit gently knowing that there was still some something proud of and then i i dressed the chuck it only took five tenths to dress out the chuck and it looks beautiful except
johngrimsmo: Really?
John Saunders: those marks are still there they don't affect
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah.
John Saunders: They're so small, but it bothers me. But I'm like, well, maybe it's a you know it's my reminder.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah.
John Saunders: um
johngrimsmo: yeah
John Saunders: And it was time for the new wheel. Got the new wheel on, balanced it, dressed it, or, you know, mounted it, dressed it. took it off, balanced it, put it back on, and we've been grinding parts since, and it's running great.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: but Man, that stuck.
johngrimsmo: Did you have did you have any downtime where like you just walk away and like i'll deal with that tomorrow kind of thing or did you try to get back into it soon after the the incident
John Saunders: That's a great question. um So the grinder I think Always rule. don't remember the exact timing the grinder i think was set up and running when the compressor Through oil all over me. I think I was cleaning it up when the grinder Grenaded.
johngrimsmo: Oh so you weren't even standing there.
John Saunders: ah No, I wasn't there. Nobody was there.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah
John Saunders: No. Yeah. So... You're right, like I should have walked away. I guess I sort of did in the sense that I just spent the rest of the day trying to clean the oil up from the compressor and then I had to go home.
johngrimsmo: Mm.
John Saunders: Sure. birthday And then the next day I...
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: dove into the grinder.
johngrimsmo: But you come back with a clean head. and you know. I mean, that day you would have assessed the situation. You hear the noise, you go see it kind of thing. and
John Saunders: So that's why it wasn't a great week, was the next day I got the i got the third surprise.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Oh no.
John Saunders: So no, it's okay. This is like the least of the worst ones but We had made a bunch of Slim Duels. Prior to...
johngrimsmo: What is this, Slim Dual?
John Saunders: Sorry, that's our dual station, my advice, the center piece of it.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: Those used to be right on the horizontal. They are not set up yet on the brothers. It's the only part that we haven't. get done. We temporarily made a bunch of them on the UMC 400. They don't need to be five axis, but it was a free spindle. We made a bunch of them. and I thought we were good.
John Saunders: And then Yvonne. On thursday was like we're out of slim jewels and i'm like, are you kidding me? like I thought we made like months worth. um and so we were out and so One of my big things is like, just it's remember how like you had those like.
John Saunders: you like you're allergic to pre -sales because of like that experience you went through i hate being out of stock on stuff. I just think it's such a
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: And I knew. The UMC was now running puck lights, but puck lights have been selling really well. So these are all great problems to have, but I wasn't going to tell the team we're going to stop and go backward and screw up puck truck production on the UMC because of my inventory oversight, blah, blah.
johngrimsmo: Mm hmm.
John Saunders: I took the chance to get the. slim duels up and running on. one of the brothers um which took me all day thursday and friday to truly get it where I like it but there was a bunch of like fixture and tooling testing as I was doing throughout that but it basically meant I was gone all week for IMTS. back friday and then That week after IMTS was a really tough week for me. with the aforementioned events so um
John Saunders: But now we made a bunch of them. They're in stock. They look great. The UMC is still running puck chucks. The grinder is running. Compressors are running great. We're good.
johngrimsmo: Awesome.
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: Yep. I mean, what they say is mo' machines, mo' problems.
John Saunders: but Do they do they
johngrimsmo: I don't know Mo' money? I don't know how it goes.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: but um no it's true stuff will always go wrong machines will always everything mechanical breaks eventually. Um, And these are just facts of life. And we as shop owners and our our friends as well who deal with this on a daily basis, and we all kind of commiserate together in the WhatsApp chat.
johngrimsmo: it It does become normal. Like I remember us, you know, five plus years ago and Dennis would complain about his bigger shop issues. And we're like, man, I couldn't even imagine.
John Saunders: I know right.
johngrimsmo: And now we're like, we're at that level that he was size wise at that time.
John Saunders: you
johngrimsmo: And it's like normal. It still sucks, but it's so much easier to like. wash through it and and move on than in the beginning when it's like the worst thing ever and it things take forever to fix and finish and now it's like you know yeah it was two days of work and i did it and it's over and then i've forgotten about it and on to the next you know
John Saunders: Yeah. Yep.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: For sure.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: Yeah, that was my week.
johngrimsmo: Nice. Well, it's good to hear you are back at it and have an awesome week. It's fantastic. Um, i was looking through my my daily tracker and uh i was proud to see well both I didn't work at all on Saturday and Sunday, like zero, zero logged 15 minute chunks of work at all.
John Saunders: Nice.
johngrimsmo: And it was good. Just tons of family time. um watched a movie with my wife which is nice and we haven't watched movies together in a long time
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And... Just lots of family time. It was great. So. Yep.
John Saunders: Good.
johngrimsmo: And then I also...
John Saunders: Good movie.
johngrimsmo: um it was the um Love Hypothesis.
John Saunders: I don't know.
johngrimsmo: Now it's the new hot rom -com that she read the book and she knows, she actually kind of knows the author through online stuff.
John Saunders: Nice.
John Saunders: Oh that's cool.
johngrimsmo: Um, Yeah, and there's a whole backstory there but um Yeah, it was great. So that's fine.
John Saunders: Good. Hello.
johngrimsmo: And on Sunday, I went to the Toronto...
John Saunders: It's... Can I interrupt you?
johngrimsmo: Yeah, please.
John Saunders: Cause it's like so hard for me to picture the John Grimso that I know, like snuggling on a couch with a blanket and a rom -com up on the screen. I just like, I just, that person doesn't exist to me.
johngrimsmo: I love rom -coms. Yeah. It's a different side of me you don't know yet.
John Saunders: Yeah, right. Oh my God. Okay, sorry you try watch
johngrimsmo: uh yeah on sunday i went to the watch show um the toronto timepiece show which is the third third annual time i've been um it's been great i like watches and it's cool to see both local makers and um
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: kind of people travel from Switzerland to come to this Toronto show and And Texas, there was a guy from Texas. Nashville, a bunch of other places. It was really cool.
John Saunders: Awesome.
johngrimsmo: And. um Nice to see some familiar faces. and had one guy Call me out on my Grimmsmo t -shirt. And he's like, oh. Are you guys with Grimsmo? like He must not have recognized me.
John Saunders: but
johngrimsmo: and I just play along.
John Saunders: You're like...
johngrimsmo: I'm like, yeah, yeah. And.
John Saunders: You're like, I am Grimmsmo.
johngrimsmo: yeah Exactly, but I don't do that. So that's funny.
John Saunders: No, I know. Of course.
johngrimsmo: I wait for them to figure it out Once I start pulling three knives out of my pockets, then he starts to figure it out.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: but um A couple things I i took away from. which is really interesting was. like I literally took a moment and I stood back and I said, who are the people here?
johngrimsmo: What is the crowd like? I've been to Blade Show a dozen times. I've been to IMTS. You got your machine nerds.
John Saunders: mm -hmm
johngrimsmo: You got your knife nerds. These these are watch nerds. But what what is a watch nerd? Some of these watches are a hundred grand.
John Saunders: Crazy, yeah.
johngrimsmo: And, you know, many are $500, but. um What kind of people are here? and and I am not a marketing sales person. I don't have that gene like baked into me, but I'm really trying to observe and things like that. And so I was listening to people's conversations and I'm like.
johngrimsmo: These guys are stats nerds. They're just like asking all these questions. What's the lug to lug with? And what's the material? And how does he screw down the crown? They want to know all the nerdy details, which they've already read online. And they're asking the booth person like to confirm.
johngrimsmo: What?
John Saunders: Interesting.
johngrimsmo: they've read online because it's they just want to talk about it you just want to have fun and like play and this is your you know
John Saunders: Mm -hmm.
johngrimsmo: particular flavor of interest. And it's great. Um, but they're just a bunch of nerds. that just like us you know when we're looking at things look in a new machine you got your cooling capacity you got your spindle rpm you got your whatever rapids all the things you want to care about it's the same in a watch but a watch is a bit more on the jewelry side
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: then you want it, you assume it's a precision timekeeping device. like There's no question there. What you want as a watch collector. is to know all these stats you're buying it because it's green or because it's big or because it's smaller or because it's subtle or because it's a dive watch or all these things and Yeah it was interesting.
johngrimsmo: Um, So seeing that, hearing that, talking to various um makers and companies about um marketing, like the whole show. is. Uh...
johngrimsmo: um like a significant level higher professionalism than all the knife shows i've ever been to
John Saunders: Oh interesting. How so?
johngrimsmo: Every.
John Saunders: how so
johngrimsmo: Every single booth had to eat the identical backdrop. banner like light up printed banner because the show organizer like made them for everybody 80 vendors and they're all the same.
John Saunders: Interesting. Hmm.
johngrimsmo: So it added this level of. professionalism throughout the show that was like oh dang like this place looks legit um because there's this subtle continuity you don't really notice whereas a blade show everybody just does what they want which is fine um
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah
johngrimsmo: Yeah, a bunch of little things like that and then one that stood out to me um So our guy Grayson, who's worked here for over four years, Uh, ended up working for one of the watch brands.
johngrimsmo: ah for the weekend as a volunteer kind of thing.
John Saunders: cool
johngrimsmo: And he is also a customer and he is also like he has one of their watches and he knows all the stuff. He knows all the nerdy stats. He's really good at sales. I've taken him to a bunch of trade shows. like He's good at this. and I was watching him interact with this guy and this guy comes by And Grayson's like, fourth time around.
johngrimsmo: You still want to see that one again? And he's like, yeah, let me see it again.
John Saunders: a Interesting.
johngrimsmo: And he puts it on. And you know Grayson's not pushy, but he's happy to like play with people.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um, And so the guy's got it on and his buddy's egging him on. He's like, you know you want it. And he he kind of messes with his shirt cuff and he goes, how do you think it would look? He asked Grayson directly. How do you think it would look in a green shirt?
johngrimsmo: and And I was like, Interesting. you know, I'm standing back thinking to myself, um My version of a wardrobe is putting on a different t -shirt that day. Like...
John Saunders: Yeah, I'm a green shirt. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Right. But like a green dress shirt with like cuffs and all that stuff and this is what's going through his mind And so I'm just like observing uh playfully to like to see what he's thinking to make this decision clearly he has more than one watch and he wants you know one that works with different shirts.
johngrimsmo: So it was interesting. I don't know. I don't know what the takeaway exactly is, but I'm letting it. percolating.
John Saunders: Do it. did Did he make the sale?
johngrimsmo: He did not, I don't think, but it's very common he could like buy one next week online.
John Saunders: Interesting. Yeah, sure, sure, sure.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: sure
johngrimsmo: And the the shows are a way to see it, feel it, put it on, see how it feels on your wrist, see how it feels to you, see if there's like sharp edges or things you don't like about it.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um That's a big thing. uh And. I wasn't sure if... At this show, like... Are people just bringing demo pieces to take orders online or are they?
John Saunders: Hmm.
johngrimsmo: actually selling moving a lot of volume throughout the show and it's both
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: <unk>s a lot of ah Because some of these watches have so much variety that they can't bring it all. And you want the green one. but Sorry, we didn't bring the green one. But you can buy it next week online. Use the show discount kind of thing.
John Saunders: Did you, i you posted a couple of really nice pieces.
johngrimsmo: Um,
John Saunders: Did you end up? See anything you want to...
johngrimsmo: I didn't see anything that i I needed to spend money on.
John Saunders: pursue further. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Some really stuff I liked a lot. There was one guy that had a dial that was kind of dark gray and it has scratch pattern on it Like literally like you put it on some 240 grit sandpaper and sanded it but it actually looked like group Pretty well done.
John Saunders: Intentionally interesting
johngrimsmo: And so I. pointed it out and I asked him right away and it's like It's like. This... looks surprisingly good. Like... you did a really good job with these scratches like it's not easy there's no squiggles it's just straight lines but in multiple directions and
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: And so he told me all about it and told me how he did it. And they're like, um Certain kind of plating. I forget what it was. I can't remember rhodium plated or something.
John Saunders: reminds me of watching what um like i think nicholas haggo has done on his kern where he's using the single point tool to
johngrimsmo: Mm.
John Saunders: Is that, is that Giosha? Is it describing?
johngrimsmo: Thank you, O'Shea, yeah.
John Saunders: is that it when you're using the machine tool though with like spindle orient commands so to
johngrimsmo: Yep.
johngrimsmo: So what watchmaker Josh Shapiro calls it is CNC O'Shea.
John Saunders: bingo, but like
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: That's a really cool thing to think if you could like see and see a Shay. a fake sandpaper pattern where it looks like there's randomness but it's actually quite deliberate and intentional
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Just with straight lines Yeah, that's a good point.
John Saunders: well or not like
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: It's an interesting thing to me if you go back and study a guy like the Jackson Pollock. artist who most people have heard of or known with his space paintings or the um Pains he did where he would drip paint It's very much a...
John Saunders: For someone who's not into art, of a person that they could ridicule is like, this is ridiculous because you know his paintings have sold for $100 million. dollars
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: um But it's interesting to me that... people tend to not be able to replicate them you know in like a ah
johngrimsmo: Interesting. Yeah.
John Saunders: like an ethical counterfeit way like people can just i don't know what it is about how Pollock did it and he was. raging alcoholic and and so forth but like as much randomness is like that's what i'm thinking about with the cnc shade it's like it looks random, but it's actually so intentional in hell.
johngrimsmo: Right.
John Saunders: these squiggles or lines or whatever went through it.
johngrimsmo: Yep. Yep. and when i was at shapiro's because he's kind of allergic to cnc o'shea even though he's got two currents.
John Saunders: occurrence, yeah.
johngrimsmo: But he's also got the old, you know, 100 -year -old guilloche traditional machines.
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: And that's what he's built his whole reputation on. And and. It's that. you know, it's. on a cnc machine that's just a little bit too perfect
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: and doing it by hand has this slight air of there's just something about it that they love so much.
John Saunders: Sounds like a Python script that takes your G -code and introduces some errant movements into it.
johngrimsmo: Exactly.
John Saunders: ah Um... That's really cool. It was awesome.
johngrimsmo: Yep. And then my favorite watch of the show is the last one that I saw. made by I posted it on on sc Instagram but made by my buddy Bradley Taylor up in North Vancouver and
John Saunders: oh with the
johngrimsmo: with the retrograde second hand that like goes up to 60 and then snaps back to zero, like a fuel gauge kind of thing.
John Saunders: Yes.
johngrimsmo: and it was just so cool and not only that gimmicky feature but it's like the whole rest of it the execution is just flawless and it's like many many many many tens of thousands of dollars for that kind of watch um
John Saunders: Crazy.
johngrimsmo: And. I mentioned... i was like i don't know if you know but i went to shapiro's shop and i he's like yeah i listened to the bomb okay
John Saunders: it's fun it's funny It's awesome. It's awesome.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: Yeah. Very cool. Actually, I'll... ah Add on to anyone who's out there and if the the youtube YouTube algorithm isn't feeding you Grimmsnows content, take a look at the video.
John Saunders: It was nice to see the... summit video just just like
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: you know, good takeaway from it. It's good to bring that energy energy back.
johngrimsmo: Good and hopefully get people excited for the next next one
John Saunders: Yeah, nice job.
johngrimsmo: Coming up not too far away. Yeah, thank you.
John Saunders: Thanks for watching the video. I assume this means we get to see more videos coming out from that trip soon.
johngrimsmo: absolutely yep it's happening now no like the whole plan of we hired the new marketing person
John Saunders: Good.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um She's been here for a month and she's been crushing, absolutely, which has freed up Ryan to really start to flex his media muscles.
John Saunders: Good. Okay.
johngrimsmo: And this video was the first proof of that.
John Saunders: good That's great to hear.
johngrimsmo: Yep. He basically edited that while I was at IMTS filming another video.
John Saunders: sweet
John Saunders: Oh, that's funny Nice.
johngrimsmo: um So like I came back and he's like, yeah, I rough cut that. And i he showed me and I'm like, oh, this is amazing. like
John Saunders: Yeah. Sweet.
johngrimsmo: There's a couple tweaks, but otherwise send it buddy
John Saunders: Awesome. um we have a fun lex update that Just. is going to be a huge quality of improvement life. for certain things that we order in this case raw material for a specific part you know we may not order it again for two or three months but next time we order it i need to do something different on that material it could be the size dimensions quantity like whatever and i want to be i want
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: In this case, me, but really some but anybody, Yvonne, Alex. might say hey next time that's ordered Not only do I want to change it, but I want to be involved in that ordering process to to review the quote.
John Saunders: from the vendor or or just.
johngrimsmo: You do specifically.
John Saunders: In this case, yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah.
John Saunders: It's kind of like that. We talked about the Jay Pearson idea of like. purchasing versus procurement. Like once you have something.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: you know if you're just buying more renishaw batteries that's just Purchasing like you just
johngrimsmo: Exactly.
John Saunders: when anybody needs in the order and procurement is is customized this is like
johngrimsmo: a
John Saunders: purchasing that now needs a little procurement flavor to it.
johngrimsmo: Yeah, yeah
John Saunders: So what Alex added. is we can go into a specific Lex item and we can... flag it for There's a flag button now. and then I can add a note section. We've always had the note section. And so the next time Serena or somebody goes to order that.
John Saunders: when they go to push the ah RFQ, it first has to come through. in this case, my approval.
johngrimsmo: Okay.
John Saunders: So it gives me the chance because this may be. you know it's september 30th now this may be november 7th and it's like oh hey john when you do this you're going to actually ask that the chains are saw cut tolerance. I want to review the quote that they get back.
John Saunders: um and make sure the pricing works, the tolerance the tolerance works, etc. just a nice little quality of life change.
johngrimsmo: Nice. It's interesting. We added a very similar feature, but not as in -depth. Mostly just a little... gate. So that if, because we've had Grayson now. cut our animal ordering POs for one of our vendors.
johngrimsmo: And so he might place a $4 ,000 animal order. And so we just put a little gate in there that says you can create the PO, but then it needs manager approval over $1 ,000 or whatever it was.
John Saunders: yeah
johngrimsmo: And then so we we log the date and the person approved. John approved on this date. And then there's a second one that says order placed and dates because he might. Create the PO. and then it gets approved and then tomorrow or next day he actually like places the order.
johngrimsmo: with the vendor kind of thing.
John Saunders: Got it.
johngrimsmo: So. it's been good Yeah, it's been helpful.
John Saunders: Good. Yeah, that makes sense.
johngrimsmo: and And also in the PO creation process, the way we've got it is is you start a PO for this tooling company and then you start typing in the part number and it auto populates like.
John Saunders: Sure.
johngrimsmo: It finds it in our database, which is great. and then you put a quantity and then it If the current price, if you type in a new price, if it's over than 10 or 15 % more than the...
johngrimsmo: previous.
John Saunders: Oh, yeah.
johngrimsmo: price it it like yells at you with big red letters that says the price is now up 42 percent
John Saunders: move
John Saunders: Yep.
johngrimsmo: you know Just FYI. um And this latest order, literally every single tool of the 20 different end mills we ordered were 40 to 70 % higher.
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: Irony Cruising
johngrimsmo: And, you know, I did get a warning from them a couple months ago that says, look, on April or August 1st, we're going to have to do this.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Sorry, but. um So I'm not surprised, but it was like. Ooh. That's a gut punch of like... our costs just went up like significantly. That $4 ,000 order now became whatever, a $5 ,000 order or so.
John Saunders: Yeah. We're crazy, right?
johngrimsmo: Um, Yeah. so
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: More than that. So yeah.
John Saunders: What else on your list?
johngrimsmo: um Deeper desire for an interferometer.
John Saunders: ha
johngrimsmo: so I asked the team the other day, I said, I actually quoted you And I said, I want us all to. Streamline, get.
johngrimsmo: you know, find little... things that bug us. um And if there's anything that...
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: takes you longer than you feel like it should or that you know it eats up a larger portion of your time, just be aware of it. If there's anything you're reworking or fixing or buffing or blending or cleaning that shouldn't be like like think about it because there are easy time savings to be had here with things like, I know everybody's working hard and I know you're all putting your heads down and like crushing. But there's got to be things that you're like, man, if.
johngrimsmo: If it wasn't like this, it'd be great. Um, And so one of our guys. um I was chatting with him about something else and he showed me his little post -it note list of five or six things. And it was great because these are things that he has to rework or buff or polish or fix like on every.
John Saunders: uh -huh
johngrimsmo: Version of this knife or periodically as the tools get duller um And since he's in finishing, he's not part of machining. He doesn't really see dull tools. He just like sees the result of it.
johngrimsmo: um And. of those six points, like literally five of them, I said to him, You know how I can measure this and know the knowledge I need to be able to solve this properly?
John Saunders: oh my i
johngrimsmo: White light interferometer. Eric's standing there. I like literally said that seven times. I'm like. You know what would tell me the knowledge I need? An interferometer. So. That was interesting.
johngrimsmo: Yeah.
John Saunders: to You're still gonna DIY it though. You're not trying to justify buying one now.
johngrimsmo: I'm... 80 -20. Definitely going to DIY one. 20 % still want to buy one.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um, I see. I don't. know That's where I'm at. I want one. Like, bad.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah. yeah
johngrimsmo: Like I would use it. I came home the other day and I told my wife, I was like, I would have used it six times today. Like... literally at work. um
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: So it's it's happening. And Marv has been continuing to upgrade and play with his. Um, And. Because he DIY'd like a full... CNC machine microscope that's Epic.
John Saunders: Yeah, yeah.
johngrimsmo: So beautiful. And so he'll he'll text me little updates and be like, I just got this off eBay. Check this out. I'm like. Bro, slow down. I want to catch up. quick
John Saunders: Was that what is that what's stopping you was just spend time on it?
johngrimsmo: time spending money it'll be thousands many thousands of dollars of like investment which is fine, I think because I need it that bad. Um, And then I kind of. pull myself back and i'm like dude nobody else has one of these like why do you need it so bad when nobody else has one Like, really?
johngrimsmo: I'm like, well... Because I know it would... Tell me what I need to know to solve these problems and to just improve our quality of life and the quality of our product.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: and like It makes sense to me. Maybe nobody else.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: has gotten that far yet. So. I'm i'm stoked. Um, And actually, I talked with Marv, I think I mentioned this last week, for like hours on this at IMDS.
johngrimsmo: And it. It filled in a lot of gaps that I didn't. understand fully of like how to build the next system.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Um, which is awesome.
John Saunders: As I go is a hundred grand.
johngrimsmo: Yeah. Yeah, Zygote or Sensofar.
John Saunders: I mean look
johngrimsmo: Those are the two brands that I would love.
John Saunders: I mean, Zygo's an Amatek company, the same as Kern. I wouldn't say, email them through, get an introduction through Kern and say, hey, would you guys rent me a machine? machine Sorry, okay. I'll show you. write me a speech like the
johngrimsmo: Exactly.
John Saunders: The fuel I'll throw on the fire is that having a... Having one could really help.
johngrimsmo: It could.
John Saunders: parallel process your DIY because it can give you a lot of confirmation.
johngrimsmo: i Totally agree. and And going to IMTS, the value of me being there and seeing literally every microscope.
John Saunders: Yeah
johngrimsmo: on the short floor. show floor was great.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Because then... That gave me a lot of knowledge. But then also, like you said, if I had one. And then I DIY'd one. We'd have. Two. like
John Saunders: there you go
johngrimsmo: We'd use it.
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: um even if I just kept one at home for playing. um You know?
John Saunders: ah Yeah.
johngrimsmo: But yeah, so it's good. It's really interesting. And I'm trying to be conscious of where we as a company spend our money. Um, you know a machine tool makes parts makes money a microscope doesn't make anything, it just makes things better. Or... it kind of yells at you that there's a problem and tells you what that problem is and lets you now measure.
johngrimsmo: very specific height differences.
John Saunders: No, yeah.
johngrimsmo: um to solve the problem so it it has like its weird value i was talking with other people about the value of metrology and they're like you're just pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into machines that only tell you you have bad parts or good parts.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: I'd rather buy nice machines, but it's interesting
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Anything else on yours?
John Saunders: keep working on it
johngrimsmo: Oh, yeah, i'm I'm working on it.
John Saunders: Ah.
johngrimsmo: but I haven't, like since IMTS, I've...
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: i've noodled it in my head for a little bit but i haven't spent any time to like do hard research, buy things like I'm getting there.
John Saunders: Yeah.
John Saunders: We definitely are. um I have... Well... I'm critical of myself that we haven't made more progress, but. it's not that we haven't made progress i just haven't spent time on like our
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: um collimated camera but That's for a good reason because uh we have finished the Mitsu Toyyu linear gauge pinch measurement system.
johngrimsmo: no way
John Saunders: And John, it is.
johngrimsmo: Yeah?
John Saunders: Awesome.
johngrimsmo: Is it everything you ever wanted it to be?
John Saunders: Yes. I mean, yes. i appropriately so handed it off to alex there was a really frustrating part where we couldn't find the right high rows or whatever that brand is called adapters we we found them soldered them together alex put the code together and finish that off. Did a bunch of testing.
John Saunders: with gauge blocks and and stress testing the Just figure out. how and where it could be right or wrong and proving that it repeats and so forth. and he showed me the interface i wanted to grab my phone and put it up on instagram right then and there but didn't make sense to do that but we will share it because This is not a...
John Saunders: complicated hard project like you know, like hand you the two gauges, you could vibe code this in two hours and and have it working, John. it's not It's not like the camera systems and other.
John Saunders: that have more open variables to them. so I'm really happy with that.
johngrimsmo: um
John Saunders: and When we come in in the morning or Garrett comes in and there's 30 or 50 parts to measure now it's by hand he'll stick them in there and we'll use it that way and then we'll phase it in where the robot just does that.
johngrimsmo: That's awesome. Yeah, I've been.
John Saunders: So really...
johngrimsmo: I've been thinking about that system that you've built.
John Saunders: Happy about that.
johngrimsmo: ah both it being horizontal. versus vertical and uh and watching our belay the machine is jeff um
John Saunders: Yeah. Yeah.
johngrimsmo: inspect and measure parts we have an optical comparator with i9 glass scales and a a digital readout and he can use it to measure angles and like Really good stuff.
John Saunders: Mm hmm.
johngrimsmo: but it's only got 10 times zoom and. a lot of the small parts we make i would i just want to pinch zoom and like zoom that thing in so much bigger and be able to measure all these radii and features and stuff so i I could see us building also one of those, what you just built.
John Saunders: Yeah.
johngrimsmo: Yep.
John Saunders: i'll I'll definitely post it up there, though. but it's i'm proud of like okay focus like that we don't need the collimator so focus um and Like I said, last week was such a low point and today.
John Saunders: the b machine which is going to be the aluminum machine grant is Tying up buttoning up some loose ends. So like make the first part on it the seam machine the fixture plate came back That's the bar fed mill. It's getting tooled up um Compressors have been running we actually bought it We bought a new compressor. um i like that's how we're that's that's where i was at with this because i was like Whatever, long story.
John Saunders: But so we'll end up at selling a compressor.
johngrimsmo: Hmm.
John Saunders: um But it's great. It's a really good place now.
johngrimsmo: Good man.
John Saunders: See? See you next week.
johngrimsmo: Yep. Yeah, it should be next week.
John Saunders: Cool.
johngrimsmo: I might... be late, but we'll see.
John Saunders: Come. Sounds good. I'll see you then.
johngrimsmo: All right.
John Saunders: Bye.
johngrimsmo: Sounds good man, bye.
