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From School Ratings to Budgetary Challenges: A Principal's Perspective | All Roads LTR | Ep. 34
31 Plays8 months ago
Join Matt and his son Charlie in a candid conversation with Sean McComb, named the 2014 National Teacher of the Year, and who is now principal at Lutherville Lab in Maryland as they navigate the complexities of evaluating schools beyond mere ratings. They delve into the intricacies of Maryland's star rating system, and uncover the real factors that shape a child's educational journey. From diverse learning needs to community engagement, Mr. McComb shares insights from his 18 years of experience in public education, highlighting the profound impact of dedicated teachers and the challenges they face amid budget constraints. Discover how parents and policymakers alike can better understand the true measures of a school's success beyond the numbers.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'All Roads Lead to Real Estate'
00:00:10
Speaker
All right. Hello and welcome, everyone, to the next episode here of All Roads Lead to Real Estate. I'm your host, Matt Rine. And I have two guests with me today. It's not that often I have the privilege of two. And one of you, well, I should say both of you, see each other almost every day, which is interesting. And the first is probably in frame right here if you're watching this on video.
Importance of Schools in Real Estate Decisions
00:00:35
Speaker
It's Sir Charles Ellis Rine, my son. You're in What Create?
00:00:39
Speaker
Second grade. He's in second grade. And how old are you, buddy? Seven. You're seven and you want to set up. Tell me who is sitting next to you. Who is our special guest today? Mr. McComb. What? So his name is Mr. McComb. And what does Mr. McComb do? What's his title? Principal. Yes, he's principal. And what school do you go to? Winterville lab.
00:01:07
Speaker
Lutherville lab here in Lutherville, Maryland. And so I am privileged to have you. So thank you first of all for taking the time out of your day. I stole you literally from school laptop in hand. I carried him out the door practically to get in to show up. So thank you so much. Happy to be here. Thank you for the invite. Well, wonderful. So I am so excited to have this because I just mentioned to this to you a moment ago before we started shooting what you do with
00:01:33
Speaker
the school at large and everyone else in Baltimore County that has your role has just an outstanding tremendous effect in what I do for my living. And so one of the very first things that many people consider, whether they have children or they don't have children, the schools. And so I'm just having a million questions because I now am almost a spokesperson for our local schools because they ask me.
00:02:00
Speaker
right? Especially if you're not from the area and the gentleman here that's doing our podcast, the sound studio engineer, bought this particular home we're in right now as a result of the school. We're in West house in elementary school. And so, I mean, first off, is it something that even enters your mind or are you so busy with your day to day that you kind of forget about us here in the real estate world?
Role of a Principal in the Community
00:02:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's an important point to realize that and think about schools are part of the community and they're embedded in the community. And when I think about my role as a principal, I'm the steward of this place that a community trust to send their children. We're both fathers, our most
00:02:43
Speaker
precious entities, we didn't trust a school to take care of them, and in the elementary world, it set a foundation. So really thinking about those first six years that educational foundation experience that we're giving, helping them, not just academically, but thinking as little human beings, being able to be together, to work together, to solve problems together.
00:03:05
Speaker
that that's the work and that mindful parents and non-parents alike know the value of a good school into a community. And so in that role as a steward entrusted with that, that is present in my mind all the time because the little people are connected to the big people and we wanna make sure we're doing right by them every day.
00:03:28
Speaker
Well and I as someone that obviously I'm gonna have three children that are going through your system. Charlie here is my oldest and I have another one that's gonna be coming your way just next year named Henry. He has yet to make a podcast debut but he's coming. It would be very fascinating to hear him on here as a five-year-old but he's coming and so we'll have June who's following up in another two years so you'll be seeing a lot of me.
00:03:53
Speaker
And so we are just so pleased with what we've experienced so far in Lutherville. And so is it considered a smaller elementary school than some in terms of the student population?
00:04:05
Speaker
Yeah, fairly small. So we're about 415 students at Lutherville lab. Elementary schools can range from some get slightly over 700 to some that are on the smaller side that around 300. So we're on the smaller end of schools, but like, you know, I think that's a nice size to me. We still have three classrooms at each grade level. So there's enough opportunity for kids to be with different groups of children over the course of their six years.
00:04:30
Speaker
small enough though where I know basically every student by name and Charlie would tell you I play rock, paper, scissors in the cafeteria in the hallways with kids and have that connection where I know them in a way they know me and other adults in a way that's small enough to feel like a close community. Well and I'll tell you from Charlie here, Charlie who do you want to dress up as when you go to school sometimes?
00:04:53
Speaker
Mr. McComb yes, he does and so you'll see those of you that are watching if this is on YouTube or one of those entity one of those platforms You always have the tie on you're always looking presentable. And so he has his own mr. McComb outfit that he occasionally wears Yeah, that's right. And we were twinning sometimes, right? Yeah. Yeah, so he just loves it So I thought that's a that's a nice compliment to give you you're obviously doing something right if a little guy wants to emulate you
Mr. McComb's Educational Background
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate that
00:05:19
Speaker
And so I wanted to give some credentials of yours, so I did a little bit of digging just before the podcast here, and so it looks like you've been, and this might be dated, that's why I wanted to ask you, it says you've been doing in public service in the school systems for about 15 years now, does that sound right? I think a few more now, I think I'm around 18. Okay, so about 18, and you started, was it originally in Patapsco High School? That's right, yeah.
00:05:42
Speaker
So yeah, so I'm from Southeast PA went to school in Pittsburgh and then Graduating college needed needed a job in a job fair Baltimore County was handing out advanced contracts drove down visited eight schools in two days Wow
00:05:57
Speaker
All high schools at the time, I had great high school English teachers and not like, talk about emulating somebody, a mentor figure, and I wanted to be like them. And so I was looking at the high school English classroom and landed at a great place, Patapsco High School, Center for the Arts, really diverse kids, diverse interests because of those arts programs that would bring kids from all over the county. Coach tennis track and worked in a college program for first generation college students to help them meet their dreams and had a wonderful experience.
00:06:27
Speaker
That's incredible. And so I think was it there that you were able to earn a teacher of the year? Correct. Yeah, that was back in what about 10 years ago now, actually, right? It'll be 10 years on May 1st. I mean, was that an incredible honor? It sounds like an incredible honor. Did it mean something to you at the time? Was it?
00:06:43
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, to be in a profession of three million people and identified as the one to represent the profession for the years is overwhelming and there's the imposter syndrome that goes along with that. But it was a process. So I was my school's teacher of the year nominee and then the school system for Baltimore County, then the state of Maryland, and then selected by the national teacher of the year committee.
00:07:08
Speaker
And, you know, ironically, it means that you spend a year outside of the classroom. Oh, really? So you spend the year traveling the country and internationally and speaking and representing the profession to a wider audience, talking to teachers, visiting classrooms. A wonderful experience that really made me think pretty broadly about what
00:07:27
Speaker
What I want to do in my career, what's possible in schools just really helps broaden my mind and perspective and maybe want to come back to the classroom and do some work in my own classroom. But I think also made me think about school leadership as well. Well, and it sounds like so after you were with Patapsco High School, you transitioned over to Pleasant Plains
Transition from High School to Elementary Education
00:07:47
Speaker
Elementary. Was that your next stop?
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, so teach me your experience. And it's funny, you said about 10 years and I'll just tell a little quick anecdote from there. So the award is given almost every year at the White House. So my son just turned 10. So I got the call that I was selected three days home from the hospital for his birth. So you know, you have children, you can imagine that with that first child, your home, home from GBMC around the corner. And we're,
00:08:18
Speaker
holding a newborn baby, we get the call that life life's gonna change. Do you say yes? And we're like, sure, we have no idea. I mean, has anyone said no to that? I assume not, but I can can't imagine harder circumstances. So then you're traveling, you know,
00:08:37
Speaker
Um, quite a bit, uh, for the year, but, um, we also found out the day that we're going to be at the white house and like needed to move vaccines up. So my son could be in public. It was his first public appearance was, was in the white house. He was held by president Obama, um, before, uh, before pictures, um, his, his first party. So he likes us to tell that story on president's day when they, when they come back in after missing the day for president's day.
00:09:01
Speaker
So I had that experience for the year, went back into the classroom for three years, and during those three years, I was teaching on A days and then on B days, and that's a high school calendar, it's like every other day, a different schedule. B days, I was supporting teacher coaches in all different buildings, and that's when I got exposed to elementary school.
00:09:20
Speaker
And at that time I was seeing the joy and energy that exists in elementary schools, the deep belief in children, the impact that you can have foundationally when they're young and really build skills for them to be successful the rest of their career. And that's when I started to feel the draw that I needed to get to an elementary school. And that's what led me to Pleasant Plains and then Lutherville. So, and then, I mean, that sounds incredible. So it's, it seems like that would be uncommon for someone to be in high school and then choose elementary. Or is it more common than I might think?
00:09:50
Speaker
There's a cohort of us principals who have had that journey. And it is generally around the draw is we see a challenge at the high school level that we can't see a solution to once kids are already there. And then we want to come lower. And for me, it was in my high school English classroom, students coming on reading levels where I couldn't teach them how to read. Once they could read, I could teach them how to interpret, how to write.
00:10:15
Speaker
But if they didn't come with those foundational skills and we didn't catch them early enough, we had to go earlier. And so that's what drove me. And so the next opportunity that you were able to take was right here in Towson area, which is Pleasant Plains. And so what was that role? So it sounded like it just seems like a school leader, the way it was worded. I'm not familiar with that term. So I was sitting there as I'm reading that, what does a school leader mean?
00:10:42
Speaker
So it was by title and assistant principal. But I also, because of my experiences and background, the principal let me run the leadership team, run the school improvement process. So I was doing more than a typical assistant principal would do in that role and really putting some structures and systems in place for that school. So it really was a little bit broader as a school leader than a typical assistant principal. There's also learning IP process, discipline, and doing those typical roles.
00:11:10
Speaker
And so I guess that allowed you because the first comment, I'm sure you used to it by now, you look awfully young to be a principal, right? So I'm sure that's the first thing. It's the first thing I hear about you. And as a man who occasionally I'm getting a little too old now, I think we're the exact same age as funny as that is. But we're we're getting a little out of that. Like we're right on the edge, right? The grazers are showing.
00:11:32
Speaker
Exactly. So we're getting there, but you still get it occasionally. So is it the teacher of the year that allowed you that opportunity? What allowed you to start and be given this opportunity to run a school at the age in which you were able to do it? Do you believe it was that?
00:11:49
Speaker
I certainly think I had experiences that prepared me. So speaking with secretaries of education and navigating a lot of different audiences, being able to think I did a fellowship at the US Department of Education. So being able to think about things from a bigger lens in a classroom and even think about how school and arts with a community, a network of schools,
00:12:11
Speaker
Those did certainly help me prepare, as did the experience of Pleasant Plains. That is a pretty traditional route to go classroom assistant principal into leadership. I do think some of those broader experiences though have helped me be successful in the role because I feel pretty confident to be in the place where I am, not that I need to prove myself or strive or feel the unnecessary sense of control. I'm able to trust myself and trust the wonderful people I work with because I feel comfortable doing what I do.
00:12:42
Speaker
That's incredible. So do you still feel that you're the young guy on the block or is that over with at this point? Only with my buddies at principals meetings when they want to volunteer me for things and tease me and give me a hard time about it. I will say it's also
00:13:01
Speaker
helpful in that I feel like I have a beginner's mindset. I work with a very veteran staff at Lutherville lab. So, um, they average almost, and this is across the whole staff. We have a couple of new teachers, almost, almost 20 years of experience teaching and more than 10 years at the school. This is remarkable in this era of public education to have folks with such deep roots and such veteran teachers, um, somewhere. So, you know, some of those teachers have forgotten more about teaching kids to read than I've learned. Um, and, and I respect that.
00:13:28
Speaker
And so, you know, from that I'll keep that beginner's mind that we're walking together. I have things to learn from them. I also have perspective and questioning just coaching skills that I can use to help them learn in their experience. And we're really taking that walk together. So I do, I am reminded even in my own building that I'm new to this relative to people who are in 20 plus years in elementary education. And we have things to give each other.
00:13:55
Speaker
Right. And so I guess I had some bigger questions and it sounds like now that I've heard a little bit more about your background, you might be the perfect person to ask.
Public vs. Private Schools in Maryland
00:14:05
Speaker
But when I when people ask me about not just our local schools, but public schools in general, we're in a hotbed here in Maryland and more specifically this Baltimore County region with private schools. I mean, there's wonderful private schools here and we have public schools. And so some public schools have
00:14:22
Speaker
better rankings than others. And I would like to know as a parent and as someone who is in the real estate profession, how much do you see these ratings? How much does it really affect your day to day? Do you have to schedule and plan? I just get these questions like, Matt, is a six out of 10 considered good? It's a real concern for a parent because we wanna do well to our students. Is that something top of mind with all of these principles?
00:14:50
Speaker
I mean, what can you actually do about it? I have a million questions. So I'll let you start off this conversation and I'll because I know I know it's something you're at least cognizant of. Yeah. And we can get I am cognizant of it as any good school leader is because it is, as you mentioned, it is the way that a snapshot of the school is communicated to the community. You know, it's almost unfair. It's a number. It's like a singular number now represents everything you've just discussed.
00:15:14
Speaker
And there is certainly that sense of it doesn't tell the full story, not nearly enough. So right now, Maryland has a star rating system. That system is pretty new. It's been around for only a few years. Even within those few years, the assessments that they've used are not apples to apples. And so one year was an assessment given in the fall and then the spring and that comparison point. And then after that, it was year over year.
00:15:37
Speaker
So there are some challenges there. There are other elements that go into it. And aside from test scores are attendance, student survey, a staff survey, course grades, course enrollment. They do try to get multiple data points in there. You hope your fifth graders are feeling good the day they take a survey. So you're sweating it more than they are probably. Certainly.
00:16:02
Speaker
You do the best you can while also recognizing that what matters to me most is that kids like Charlie come in the building. They want to be there. They feel safe and supported while they're there. They feel like they have friends, a teacher who cares about them. And then as parents, you see that they're growing. He's learning skills. His academic skills are growing. He's also learning to be a good person and navigate people. And it's hard to reproduce some of those pieces into an algorithm that is a data point.
00:16:31
Speaker
And so how does a star, that's a first I've heard of a
Impact of School Ratings on Parental Choices
00:16:34
Speaker
star system. Typically, what do you think, when I say a number, what do you think I'm speaking to? Like, are you familiar with- Oh, you're like a niche or good neighbors or- Yeah, it's the simple, it's the zillows of the world that people, as they're reviewing homes, they just look, it's an A minus, or it's a seven out of 10.
00:16:52
Speaker
They do pull a lot of the same publicly available data points, is my understanding, into creating those numbers. And they do provide some information. Not everyone who's looking for a home has the benefit of being able to talk to people who have experiences in the schools reputationally. But there are fantastic teachers in every school. And what really matters, especially elementary, where there's one teacher
00:17:18
Speaker
for a child, at least usually K through three, is does that teacher know kids well, aware of their gaps and where they can grow on their skills? Are they skillful to move them forward? And is that happening? And there are some points that we have, we really rely on MAP scores, which is a test that students take in the fall and then again in the winter, and that shows over those months how much have they grown.
00:17:45
Speaker
And then somebody will say again in the spring. And so that really shows consistency over time for one kid with their teacher over time and other. Well, I can just tell you with little Charlie here, he'll have a score that's fabulous one time and then the next time his percentile can be very different. It can be alarming or you get really excited. Oh my God, he's a genius. I have a genius on my hand. And then the next score is 20 points lower. I'm like, what just happened?
00:18:10
Speaker
And so I get, I don't know how much weight to put in it. And then when we ask the teacher, it's very much, well, he's doing very well in school. Like they, they kind of calm us down, but you don't know it. Should I be putting all, how much weight do you put on these standardized type tests to understand how well your kid is doing?
Standardized Testing: Importance and Limitations
00:18:27
Speaker
Yeah. And so we certainly want to like triangulate data. And so in a second grader, map is important. And we certainly want to see growth over time with that. Same time, they take it one day. And, you know, how's the kid feeling that day? And so we want to connect that with some other data points. And so we have, you know, Phonics and Izzy developing those foundational reading skills. And then
00:18:49
Speaker
when they work on reading something in a unit, how does he do on those assessments? And we're putting those pieces together, we're getting a fuller picture. And over time, when he takes that MAP test twice in kindergarten and three times in first grade, three times in second grade, you do develop a trend. And so when you get some of those points over time, you can really get a sense of how your kid's growing and you do wanna see that growth. Is he, where his percentile rank, is he keeping up with that? Is he starting to move?
00:19:16
Speaker
And as a school, we look at that too. We look at how many students are meeting their growth target, and we're looking at year over year. And how many students are we moving into the 61st percentile, which is a marker that the school system uses, say, like college readiness. And are we moving more kids into that grouping every year? And we do get to the kid level and thinking about who needs what and how do we put some programs in place to help that happen.
00:19:39
Speaker
Well, that that is reassuring to hear someone's paying attention all the way down to that granular granular level. But I mean, as someone who's looking and trying to judge which school to go to, what advice would you have to a parent or a potential parent that's considering which school? I mean, what would you do if you're looking? Do you do you rely on on the score systems that we just discussed? Is that really the only data point we have? Is there another strategy? What what would you say if you were going to give advice?
00:20:07
Speaker
So I think, take the data that you have, and you have to think about what you're really looking for in a schooling experience for your child. And so there is, do students perform well on the tests? That's certainly one piece, right? We want kids to be mastering skills and those skills to be showing when they need to show.
00:20:26
Speaker
I'll say for me as a father, we also wanted a school that had diversity. And we were looking for racial diversity, we were looking for some socioeconomic diversity. We want our kids, our priority was to have our kids go to a place that would look like the world that they would be entering into. And that was important to us, and that's something we were seeking, and that's publicly available as well. Some families, there could be an element of religious education that's very important to them, and so that's something that they're gonna prioritize and think about.
00:20:52
Speaker
And and so, you know, I would say that. And then also, you know, if if you have the opportunity to network and talk to people whose kids are there, what is what is their experience as a family been like going through that school when they had a concern? What was their concern? Heard, supported? Well, I'll say the most challenging.
00:21:12
Speaker
issue with that is I can it's like the squeaky wheel right is what is the loudest it's just like I don't know how to describe it other than I have a handful of parents even in Lutherville that might have had one issue with their child that they feel there was a bully or there was something there was an issue
00:21:27
Speaker
that then states that the whole the whole school is no good. Right. And then you could have someone like myself has had nothing but positive experiences. And it kind of depends on if you're at a cocktail or happy hour and you're talking to someone who did you meet because you're very two different things. And it's it's it's almost a challenge because if you look on forums, for example, what parents might put
00:21:47
Speaker
And I'm sure you get to see this. It's like you see the parent that's had a bad experience. And that's what's the toughest part is that you might be reading. It's like the Yelp reviews for a restaurant. The only ones that post are the ones that have a bug in their soup. And it's like, well, that's happened once out of the last six months. And so I don't know how frustrating that must be as a principal to have one or two little issues that potentially could cloud an otherwise really good job overall.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think the internet is not a place that escalates joy very effectively. I wouldn't put a lot of, to your point, the people who might be motivated to put a Google review for a school are probably motivated by that poor experience. If you're local and looking to relocate,
00:22:36
Speaker
If a school's having an event, we have food truck nights and things that are publicly open and available. If you do know families that you already know that are there or ask your network, do you know anyone at that school two steps away? And maybe it's someone who, because a friend of a friend, you might more trust their insight.
00:23:01
Speaker
that could rise. I will say my experience has been very, very positive, especially with parents. And as a school leader and as a father, I think about it in both perspectives. If a parent's having an experience that's rising to the point where they want to talk to the principal, it means something to them.
00:23:20
Speaker
They're taking time out of their day. There's something happening. They're planning on deciding this on a whim. They've hopefully tried to problem solve with a teacher. And now they really need to feel heard. And I try to remember this as a dad that they're really entrusting us to their kid and they want their kid to thrive. And if they're not feeling that way, I really feel it's my...
00:23:43
Speaker
job to hear them out, to do what I can within the parameters that I have, but do everything I can to help their kid to thrive, to feel supported, to help the family feel heard. And it's my hope that any parent will walk away saying, you know, Mr. McCrone listened, he did what he could, he tried to help us, you know, he doesn't have a magic wand, but he did everything he could for us.
00:24:03
Speaker
Well, and so how much of your job is constrained by budgetary issues? I feel like that's a common thread. Some of the complaints, I'm not talking about Lutherville here, just in some other schools that I've had or people have had to move. It could be, you know, Matt, I'll tell you, if your child is doing well and they don't have any issues and they're at the top of the class,
00:24:22
Speaker
These public schools are fabulous. Like it's fine. They don't need extra care. But God help you if your kid has any learning disabilities or has issues. There's not enough resources. The Mr. McCombs that are the good ones, in my opinion. There's nothing you can do in the sense that you only have so much money. You can't hire 15 aides to help in certain classrooms. And you're kind of constrained by budgets, which we just don't. Clearly we don't pay
00:24:46
Speaker
the profession enough in general. My sister's a school teacher, elementary school teacher. And I just mentioned, shout out to Megan. I had her on the podcast once, but she wanted your job. That's what she wanted to do, her whole life. She's known it since I was way younger than Henry and Charlie. And she got into it and the reality of elementary school was very different than what she was hoping it to be.
00:25:09
Speaker
And she wanted to be an administrator, got her master's to do it, and had her second baby and they didn't pay enough for her to be able to continue. And then she backed out and now she's not doing it anymore. And so it like breaks my heart because that was, she was born for it. And you know that you're in this situation, how often do you feel you're constrained by these budgetary issues? And if you had, you know, the Brinks truck roll up, how many problems could you potentially address and or solve?
00:25:39
Speaker
Does that make sense? Sure, yeah. Should we be petitioning our government to stop spending money on all these other things and give you more money? This is your chance to, yeah, to scream from the rafters. Yes. Yeah, I think, you know, any school leader would say we'd benefit from having particularly more people.
00:25:56
Speaker
You know, we're pretty lucky in Baltimore County. We have robust curriculum. Students all have devices. We have a lot of the materials that we need. Lutherville was built in 1954, so there's some ways that we could update the facilities.
00:26:13
Speaker
But people are the difference in schools. And so, sure, staffing is really where the rubber meets the road. And my special educators, my specialist related service providers, would they love to be able to split their caseload? Sure, absolutely.
00:26:28
Speaker
And it's funny you bring up special education, which is near and dear to my heart. It's a big part of what any school leader does. I was telling my team at Lutherville yesterday, that the day before I had been in team
Addressing Special Education Needs
00:26:45
Speaker
for my daughter, and I actually got emotional saying to our staff, I'm just so grateful for how we interact with families.
00:26:53
Speaker
to hear from them, to try to problem solve with them, to walk on a journey with them with their children, no matter what their needs are, that I think our team is very thorough in trying to assess and understand kids' learning profiles, and then what we can do around them, and we really do stretch ourselves to do everything we can for kids, but there are those constraints. But there are only so many people, so many hours in the day, so many hours we can serve as kids, and so,
00:27:19
Speaker
again, pulling back, if we think as a community, as a society, we're investing in our next generation and you're gonna, the more you put in, the better you'll get out if the money's invested well and you have accountability and all those pieces in there and you trust the schools to be doing well with them and I've said, I've worked with some amazing humans in it and to your point about,
00:27:46
Speaker
Unfortunately, your sister who left the profession, I was just listening to the 2024 National Teacher Year who said, in her mind said, we don't have a teacher shortage. There are tons of teachers. A lot of them are not in education anymore, but that's because of conditions that have worked them out of the profession.
00:28:04
Speaker
I don't want to speak on behalf of my sister, but I've heard from her and others. I serve a lot of teachers. I've helped them buy homes and sell homes, and they've changed professions. Some of the best ones that had the heart, had the desire, and yes, financially, it didn't make sense. It's challenging to tell someone. I'll be the first to say I did medical sales right out of college, and I grew up on a dairy farm. I wanted the most pay I can get. I went and I sought a career that could pay.
00:28:30
Speaker
That's what I did and I could have done other things I never considered teaching it wasn't a thought for me because I just hear the pay isn't sufficient and I was from a poor mindset I wanted abundance and wealth and I wanted to have opportunity and I'm just that's the truth and that's what I did at a young age and it's.
00:28:47
Speaker
I just see if we had a starting salary that was so compelling, people were fighting for the opportunity. Maybe it's an outsider's perspective, but I think it would be reflective of how we view. If you have children, that's how you feel. There's not enough money to pay any of these people, and you want to hold them to standards. As an outsider, it's just like I would love to make everybody
00:29:11
Speaker
It's just such a competitive experience to teach my child. I would want it to be. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense for a society that wants to maximize the next generation. And there are, you know, when you hear the American school system prepared, why aren't we like Finland? Why aren't we like Singapore?
00:29:27
Speaker
If you look at the conditions for the profession, it is one of the most prestigious professions. Absolutely. It's very difficult to get into. It pays very well. It pays on par with doctors and lawyers. And it is held in that esteem in that society. And because of that, you're able to retain some of your best talent or attract some of your best talent. I'm into it. At the same time, I work with people who are great.
00:29:54
Speaker
who created their job anyway and make the choice anyway. It's almost like in spite of it, their heart is so big that that's ultimately, it's like what I hear when I hear you speak. It's not the financial piece, it's the other piece, but I'm like, why can't we have both? And then when you hear the statistics about how much we spend per child in this country, we're the most, we spend more than anybody, according to what I've read. Is that accurate?
00:30:25
Speaker
Well, what we spend per child varies greatly state to state. And some of what we spend is relative to, you were seeing a little bit in Baltimore County now where you've had to see in order to retain aides and bus drivers, we've had to have some significant increases in salary and teachers as well. And the majority of people of school digits
00:30:50
Speaker
school districts budgets are spent on the humans who do the work. So while we are spending a lot, it is mostly going to the people, and if we wanted to spend more on the people, it will need to go up. So it's, okay, so I've just heard, and this is why I need to confirm with you, it sounds like we spend more than any country's whatever, the articles I've read, and yet we have some of the lower outcomes in terms of statistically where we fall in terms of the education system, the public education
Educational Approaches in Different Countries
00:31:17
Speaker
system. We're not at the top of the list.
00:31:24
Speaker
There's a number of things that go into that. Some of it is cultural and the emphasis on education. My wife and I had an experience where we chaperoned 27 Baltimore County students to Xi'an, China. We stayed there for seven weeks. We lived with a Chinese family. So a comparison point is often China or some of the more wealthy provinces in China are sometimes what the United States is compared to.
00:31:45
Speaker
We are not. That is true.
00:31:52
Speaker
And a couple of things you learn there. One, in China, they don't educate every child. So children with special needs aren't accounted for in their education system. I didn't know that. They really do have very different expectations of who gets an education or a thorough education in China. It's also very competitive. The public system there
00:32:14
Speaker
really represent looks more like the private system here where there is applications and there are students who are very much at the top but living with Bruce was the American name that our our host brother selected one one day and we're there for seven weeks seven weekends and so on the weekend that we go to the movies we hang out we do things the family does
00:32:34
Speaker
And he didn't do his homework and his mom didn't let him go go with us He didn't do his extra his extra homework from his extra tutoring for math So mom didn't let him go to the movies with us So so he only has seven chances to hang out with his American family and do these fun things and her emphasis on that homework was so important that he wasn't able to participate we had to go with his cousin yeah, and it spoke to just that homework is number one and and and
00:33:03
Speaker
And that's, you know, there's certainly many American families that are that way too, but, you know, there are, you know, many other factors and emphasis that families are balancing with that as well.
00:33:18
Speaker
You don't seem quite as doom and gloom. It seems when I talk to folks, it's kind of nerve wracking that it seems like it's a little frustrating.
Systemic Educational Reforms
00:33:24
Speaker
It's like every administration comes in and tries to throw their version of how we're going to improve it and how we're going to make it. And, you know, it's just.
00:33:34
Speaker
To me it sounds scary a little bit because it's like are we making the steps or the progress that we need or how do we what do we do and so to me I was like do you pay the teachers more do you make it a more attractive opportunity what do you do is it just money or is it other. Do you try to change society in general to place the right emphasis on it.
00:33:53
Speaker
There are big questions and no easy answers. I'll give you like an example. So school, when we were going to school with him in Chinese, a high school student, and he was going to school at nine o'clock, I think is about when their school started. And they were shocked to learn that the first bell rang at Patapsco at 7.30 in the morning. And Bruce was like, how could I ever get up for that? Why does school start so early for high school students in America? Well, it started so early so that we can get out and go play sports.
00:34:20
Speaker
And can you imagine America saying no more high school sports? No, but the physiology of a high school student, they are not ready to learn at 730 in the morning, right? Meet a teenager, ask them if they're ready. See them when they sleep to on the weekends. And so we think about priorities and at the same time, there are some school districts that have tried and gotten a lot of pushback, a lot of difficulty in trying to think about those bell times and how they change.
00:34:47
Speaker
while the science and biology says, if we want kids to be at their best to learn, 730 is not it. Chuck, you don't anticipate that changing anytime soon, huh? I don't, whereas this guy's probably like- Oh, he's wide awake. Wide awake, ready to roll at 730. So, you know, some of it seems so backwards, but at the same time, it's how it always has been, and do we have the will to change?
00:35:11
Speaker
Yeah. Well, do you anticipate, what's the next chapter? I know you're a couple of years into this role. What do you see your vision, I mean, do you want to make an impact even beyond a singular school? It seems like you're pretty ambitious. Do you have any desires to maybe go into, I don't know, politics or to go into the next step, the Board of Education? Or is this what you want? Is this like the end game and you want to get really great at this for 20 years?
00:35:37
Speaker
I am so happy to be where I am. And that's, I think, I was lucky to learn that lesson. You know, I spoke to 10,000 teachers at the National Education Association assembly. It's our first name base of the two Secretaries of Education. I won't forget John King, Secretary of Education,
00:35:58
Speaker
I was one of the fellows, the teachers who come from schools and kind of give him an idea of what it's like on the ground and saying to him, we just need to make these changes. And he said, yeah, I really wish I could make a bigger impact. I really wish I could change, but I'm really limited in this role. This is the Secretary of Education of the United States saying, I'm really limited in this role. I can't make laws, but I can interpret them somewhere. I really need a senator who really wants to pass a new education. That's what he needed because he couldn't do it in his role.
00:36:24
Speaker
For me at Lutherville, I have such a great opportunity to really help 415 or so kids every single day, which is a pretty darn big impact to me.
Fulfillment in Educational Roles
00:36:37
Speaker
And I'm so connected to the work and it's so close. Whereas the higher up you go, the further you are away from those human rewards of seeing progress and the happiness and the joy that is what brought me to education.
00:36:50
Speaker
And at the same time, I'm trying to balance that with the joys of being a father and being present with my kids and my schedule allows me to be home for dinner most nights and really present to them and predictable schedule and not traveling and those things. I am grateful to have found the role where I am and enjoying it early.
00:37:11
Speaker
Well, that's amazing and I can't not ask a couple questions specific because I asked, I told some folks that you were coming in and some other parents and one of the questions that was asked of me to ask you is about bullying because that is something that if you have a child that has been bullied, oh, it's present in your mind and it's one of those things where how do you address
Addressing Bullying in Schools
00:37:34
Speaker
it? What can we do? Has it gotten worse?
00:37:36
Speaker
What, you know, as a principal, how much of your day is spent in that world? Is it every week you hear about it that you're somehow having to address it? What are your thoughts and what has been your experience with bullying?
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah, so from my perspective, bullying is a tough word, right? So it's a word that sometimes we wanna jump to when a kid has had a single bad interaction with another kid, where a kid was mean to them, and they wanna call that bullying. And so we do try to separate, was a kid being mean to you, or is this ongoing, consistent, there's a power dynamic here, you don't feel safe, and we address both, right? Both need to certainly be addressed. Kids being mean to each other is not okay.
00:38:17
Speaker
And if we address those acts of meanness, we find out what's behind them, then we usually don't get to the it happening over and over again. So it's really about, for me, it's about being responsive. So if we, and it first starts with the teacher, here's where it starts. It starts with the child. Does Charlie, does every kid at Lutherville lab feel like they have trusted adults that they can go to if something happens that they were uncomfortable with or didn't make them feel safe?
00:38:43
Speaker
then when they go to that adult, does the adult have the skill or the resources to support? And that is sometimes where I come in, our counselor comes in, and at Lutherville, we use restorative practices, which is an opportunity to talk with both children and have them share their perspectives on what happened, how it made them feel,
00:39:03
Speaker
understand who got impacted and how they got impacted and then talk about how do we heal? How do we improve what happened? It's an opportunity for the aggressor to offer apology if that's appropriate. Other ways, if you think about taking responsibility, we offer, we have resources to offer kids ways to think about this. Do you want to do something kind for them? Do you want to do better next time? Do you want to practice? Do you want to use your words? Do you want to write? How do you want to make this right?
00:39:29
Speaker
so understanding as you know as hopefully we do as adults in the world that we can do harm to one another and then what happens when you've done harm and that is that like skill building in young human beings to go out in the world and not do harm to your or if they do and sometimes unintentionally.
00:39:47
Speaker
Sometimes you have kids who are used to talking one way and a kid is more sensitive to that. And it's just a level of sensitivity. And a kid wasn't aware that they were having the impact they were having. But having a conversation together, facilitated and mediated, we can get to the bottom of that and hopefully solve a problem before it's repetitive, before it escalates, before a kid doesn't feel psychologically safe. Because if they're not feeling safe in the classroom, they are not gonna learn.
00:40:13
Speaker
Well, and that's the people that have asked that question to me, you could tell that they've had an experience with their child that is very disruptive to the child and they just feel that no matter, the talking hasn't worked. We've tried this. That child should be gone, right? In their mind, my child has, you know, it needs to be safe. That child's crazy, right? Their parents not doing anything. Nothing's happening. They need to get rid of that kid.
00:40:39
Speaker
And it's I just imagine your role. It's like it's like most we're not there when these things happen typically and it's their children. And so I don't know how you balance all of that. You can't just expel a child the second they make anyone uncomfortable with that. It's just there. But that's what you as a parent, if I heard that with my daughter or my side, say, get rid of that kid. Yeah.
00:40:58
Speaker
like don't you I'm sure you hear that it's just what do you do in that situation yeah it it's not easy to navigate both kids have rights to an education in America right this is law they have they have rights at the same time we got to make we got to make sure kids feel safe and there are some some tools that we use
00:41:16
Speaker
sometimes in like upper grades we'll do a no contact contract where like for a period of time like like you two are just not getting along and you might have thought it was okay one time and you thought it was okay the other time but it is not working so from this day to this day no contact no intermediaries no visual contact you know we're separating sometimes you know if if if
00:41:37
Speaker
a class change may have to happen. It is rare. I haven't had one this year, maybe one or two last year. So one or two over the last two school years. Pretty rare because we do try to do that problem solving early on, but sometimes we need that space.
00:41:52
Speaker
in a more formal way. Have you ever had to have a child expelled in any of the schools that you've been a part of? Have you seen that process roll out or is that really, really rare? It is really, really rare, but I have seen that process play out. So it is a possibility, a thing that can happen, but there is, you know, progressive discipline needs to happen first. You need to try other measures. You need to try other things in place to try to extinguish the concern.
00:42:22
Speaker
And you do your best to make sure that kids are safe and that kids are learning and doing better. But it is a puzzle to solve. That's the way we approach it. We have a puzzle here and let's try this and that didn't work. Does this piece fit and how do we put it together? I think what I hear out of what you've described, which would make me feel a little better, is that I feel sometimes, and I think
00:42:46
Speaker
I think the reason we like you as parents is because I think you mean what you say and you're sincere, and I think some of the sincerity with maybe some other of your colleagues around might not necessarily be there. I know you can't speak to that. In fact, you listen to the top five principles that are horrible, and let's tell everybody that would really get this podcast on. You'd be out of a job soon, but it'd be great. See you later, Charlie. Good knowing you.
00:43:11
Speaker
But it's just the reality is I don't know if everyone feels like they're being heard equally and it has to be immensely frustrating and I think that's why it's such a hot topic for people in general.
Boundary Changes and School Assignments
00:43:23
Speaker
So going to another super hot topic would be the boundaries because as a realtor I like to make the joke when people change boundaries I get phone calls.
00:43:33
Speaker
So it's great for business, so thank you guys for doing that. But it really impacts people in a meaningful way. In my world, in the real estate world, you could buy a home and it is very possible in a couple years when you go to use the school that you bought within that school district, it's gone. You're now assigned to the school you did not want to go to.
00:43:53
Speaker
And how I know we just were impacted with Lutherville Lab and thankfully your email two weeks ago stated we were not impacted. Correct. And so first off, why were we not impacted and others were? And just what is that like from your perspective? And I mean, that's got to be miserable for principals in general to have to deal with.
00:44:14
Speaker
It is a very challenging process to be a part of. And the reality in Baltimore County is, and I learned this, so I've been a part of a boundary study at both schools that I've been at, both elementary schools. And the reality is if a developer builds and there isn't space within that current zoning, but there is one over, then it's incumbent on the school district to have a boundary study and figure it out.
00:44:38
Speaker
So this is part of what impacts and this is the county councils. So it's really real estate in the real estate world. I represent a builder right down the street here. So we're part of the problem, I suppose. But but we need to build. Right. So but you're saying it's really the new construction that creates the issues. If no new construction were in our area, would boundary surveys still exist?
00:44:58
Speaker
in general? Well, the change would be far less often, right. So if there aren't huge shifts in where people are living, then it's pretty consistent. You might have an older neighborhood turnover and some younger families move in, but it would be pretty consistent.
00:45:16
Speaker
To answer your question about why Lutherville wasn't impacted in this central area boundary study, one of the superintendents, so there's two kind of guiding principles in the boundary study. One is maximize utilization. So are we using all the spaces we have as much as possible? Makes sense. And are we maintaining or increasing diversity?
00:45:35
Speaker
And it's a decision of the boundary study as a whole and the committee as a whole. So there's a committee with four representatives, principal, staff, and two parents from every school that was involved, 19 schools. So there's a large group of people who are making this collective decision on behalf of the community.
00:45:52
Speaker
But going into that, there's 19 schools and Lutherville within one percentage point represented that 19 school group with the number of racial demographics. So within one percentage point in terms of our white population, black population, we were in one percentage. Is there a goal that's a stated goal? What's the diversity goal?
00:46:13
Speaker
There's a goal, but if the goal is to maintain increased diversity, changing Luthervilles and what was proposed, right, would not lead to schools that better represent the diversity of the region. So the representatives from our school kept saying, if this is the goal and we are like 103% utilization. So we are pretty well utilized. We don't need to, it's not like we're at 140% and we're bursting at the seams. It's not like we're at 80% and have a ton of room to bring in.
00:46:40
Speaker
and we're representative of the region, we should not be impacted. Why would we be shifting our families around if not necessary? And the committee was able to get to some maps that really targeted movement to the schools that needed relief to schools that had room. So there are some schools that will be dramatically affected.
00:47:01
Speaker
There are schools that are affected and that's what it saw at some schools. The Hampton community spoke to needing relief because they have some spaces in their school, cafeteria, bathrooms, where they felt they had too many students and they needed some relief and there were some other schools where there was space and so they were able to see how they could kind of shift boundaries to move communities in a way that would help that utilization goal.
00:47:27
Speaker
Right. Well, we were grateful. I saw the first draft of this potential boundary map and we'd live in walking distance to our school and they were going to take us out of the school. That's what I was told. And I was just like, oh my lord. I walked Charlie to school a couple days a week and that would have been miserable for me. I got my steps in.
00:47:47
Speaker
And there are some communities that say, I watch my neighbors across the street walk to school, but my kids get on the bus and drive 20 minutes that way. And they try to solve for that as much as possible. It is a complex and difficult process. And understandably, and I'd say for the Lutherville families, and there's some maps where there was movement for our community, when parents were aware of that, just shocked and sad. And we love our school and we feel a home there and we're, you know,
00:48:16
Speaker
and families feel that way and so it is going to be a raw topic anytime it comes up. And a question my sister had, and so this is a shout out for her, she wanted to understand what the role is here in Carroll County where she was, you know, all of her experiences in Carroll County in Maryland.
Roles of Principals vs. Vice Principals
00:48:33
Speaker
She said the vice principal was more the disciplinarian, the person that did a lot of that
00:48:39
Speaker
I don't know, the day to day stuff, whereas the principal was more involved in the politics a little bit at the higher level. They were fighting for budget. They were. It was just more of that back and forth. And they weren't in the school nearly as often as the vice principal. Is that been your experience or is she saying something that's not the way that you've seen it here?
00:49:00
Speaker
I would say that the principal is responsible for some of the more big picture thinking. So school progress planning, school improvement, data, thinking really about what are our initiatives, what are our big rocks, a little bit more the leader in terms of instruction and observing teachers and are we implementing curriculum the way that it should be.
00:49:20
Speaker
Assistant principal in Baltimore County. To this point, this is starting to become less of the role as we have some dedicated facilitators, but the IP team process has been a big chunk of their work traditionally. We're excited that they're bringing people dedicated to look at that process and that role because it is, as we've discussed, such an important piece for families and any school.
00:49:42
Speaker
but also like transportation day-to-day operations coverage and those kind of pieces. So it is a little bit more nuts and bolts for the AP and a little bit more big picture for the principle.
00:49:52
Speaker
Well, that's interesting. I think that's in line with what you said, I believe. At the same time, we'll say, you know, Miss Hart, ours as a principal, and I think we have a really good relationship. We're in slightly different life places. She just recently became a grandmother. She has tons of experience. She was in special education for 26 years before going to school administration. All elementary, some middle. I'm coming from mostly the high school world, instructionally.
00:50:21
Speaker
And so in our role, we're kind of this odd couple that are until she retires. There is the role for principal also to think about building leadership. And so a lot of APs are coming out of classrooms and how do we build them as leaders and give them opportunities so that they're the next role of principals. And so you do try to give them some pieces of those big picture items.
00:50:41
Speaker
There we go. Well, and so this is a question directly from a client that's under contract now to buy a home in our area actually in Sparks community.
Pre-K in Public Schools: Upcoming Changes
00:50:50
Speaker
They're coming in from Oregon and they have children that are in like the pre-k age range that will be going into elementary school. She was completely floored that she found out that this area does not have pre-k included publicly.
00:51:04
Speaker
She just didn't budget for that originally because that's a big part. She thought she had more budget for her home than she does. And as someone who has three kids, you have two kids, it's we have to pay. That's expensive. It is expensive to have children. Anybody with children out there listening to this, you know how expensive this is. So why is that something that is just simply not in the budget? We're never going to experience it here in Maryland. Is it something that's on the table coming?
00:51:30
Speaker
Coming soon. Part of the blueprint for progress. Look at this. Raoul's asked this, the sound in studio engineer here is the same question. Yeah. So part of the blueprint for progress for Maryland Kerwin Commission, the state legislature passed like a pretty ambitious bill in order to increase funding and hopefully increase outcomes for students and pre-K is a big part of that. And so Baltimore County is expanding many elementary schools getting pre-K
00:51:58
Speaker
Next year, I remember walking through with facilities and they were like, show me any space you have, see if you can fit a pre-K. And I was like, we're using the closets. So not at Lutherville Lab next year, but many schools are gaining pre-K programs and Baltimore County is expanding because Maryland as a state is committing to universal pre-K. Interesting, how do I know these things? I have not heard of this. These are the articles I'm not reading. Yeah, it's coming. Wow, that's incredible. Good news for your Oregon client.
00:52:24
Speaker
Well, Ben, Ben is for us. We've already paid, but, you know, for the right. I mean, it's just it is preventing and I know population growth. This is like the big picture stuff. I'm sure you've read this. But, you know, Elon Musk is is a pretty smart guy, I think, controversial at this point. But he describes the biggest risk we have in this country is is the population not growing fast enough to support us as we age.
Impact of Declining Birth Rates on Society
00:52:48
Speaker
And that's a real concern being felt in China and these other places. These are number one concern they have, not number three or four or five, like number one. And so I believe when I talk to people that are younger than us, it's so darn expensive. And they just, how can I support two or three kids? I don't know how to do it. And everything's expensive. Everything goes, it's so, when I hear this, I think it's fabulous because it might give someone who's on the fence of having children or only have one, maybe now they'll have two or three, I don't know.
00:53:15
Speaker
Yeah, well, and I think about how imperative to education early intervention is. And so thinking about a kid in kindergarten or in pre-K starting to learn letters and letter sounds and being exposed to someone in the routines of school and socialization and so many pieces that are so important to a good kindergarten experience and moving on. I think we'll start to see a lot of dividends instead of trying to fill gaps after they've already formed, having kids with a good foundational experience coming in.
00:53:44
Speaker
Do you see a gap in your experience when someone, let's just say, spent the first couple of years of their life just at home, just hanging out, just with the family versus if they went to pre-K going into elementary school because there's a curriculum, there's more structure, there's another adult in charge? Do you see a benefit to that structure for pre-K versus the average person that's just being cared for at home?
00:54:09
Speaker
So it is all dependent. And so there are plenty of parents who have their kids at home who are doing a lot of imposing them to a lot of things, taking trips and doing all kinds of wonderful things there. The difference might be just the socialization around other kids and navigating other kids and interactions and things along those lines. That is a lot of kindergarten is
00:54:30
Speaker
And we do have like specific curriculum around that and routines around that. And how do we use our voice when we don't like what happens instead of using our hands. I don't like what happened as a five-year-old. And so that is a huge benefit of pre-K. And then there is also, you know, pre-Ks do,
00:54:48
Speaker
are certified by MSDE and they do have to have to have some academic components and and you know we just had kindergarten roundup yesterday and we're meeting some kindergartners and looking at readiness and so we are saying like do you know letters how many numbers can you count to that that there's pre-exposure will help them when they do see a difference in on average you do see some better outcomes or
00:55:10
Speaker
Couldn't tell you like I don't know from our kindergartners who was in pre-k and not a good sign Then if it's not if your answer was absolutely yeah, it's night and day. That's one thing Yeah, it's not it's not as though we see a kid struggle. We are first thought is they didn't go to pre-k But we do know that generally pre-k is is advantageous got it and my friend that was homeschooled wanted me to ask are all homeschooled kids weird and
00:55:35
Speaker
Some of my best friends are homeschooled. I'd say there's a kid on my son's lacrosse team who's homeschooled right now, and soccer team, we love him. He's a great kid, and that's just their families on a farm, and that's the life they're living. And the mom was talking at soccer, he wants to go to high school when he gets there. And I'm like, that's great, and we support him. Well, my friend that said that is weird, but he thinks that, no, I'm like, you're weird. It's not just the homeschooling. You would have been weird no matter what. I hate to break it to you.
00:56:04
Speaker
Well, Charlie, you had an amazing experience here talking to your principal. You've been listening and I listen. You've smiled occasionally. I think you've listened to some of this. Have we bored you to tears or no? No. What have you got all this? Anything? No, not really. I don't think so. Can I ask Charlie a question? Sure. Charlie, tell me what is your favorite part of being a student at Lutherville Lab? Um. Um.
00:56:35
Speaker
Um... Pins and needles over here, buddy. What do you think? What do you like about school?
00:56:41
Speaker
recess and lunch. Our recess lunch is very popular, I have to tell you. I think he gets nervous. He doesn't stop talking to him. And so if I see his microphones turn off, he's going to be a mile a minute. I can tell you what he tells me. And I think he likes the kids. He likes the interaction. And the best thing I can say, and the reason I like the school is because he doesn't dislike the idea of going to school. When I say it's schools tomorrow, he goes, yay.
00:57:11
Speaker
I'm like, that is not my experience as a kid, but maybe that'll change with time. You never know, he's still young, but it's such a good thing to not dread going back to school. And does that make sense? That to me as a parent, yes, we can have score outcomes and we can look at all the statistics and ratings, but just that to me says a lot. It means the people in school supporting him
00:57:34
Speaker
He must feel nurtured. He must feel cared for. It has to be a positive environment in general. If there's a test that that could reflect yay or no yay. I would say part of that is in attendance. Maybe it's different at the higher level.
00:57:54
Speaker
You know, kids want to come to school, your tennis is going to be higher. And that's part of why, you know, I think that why that measure is in there. It's it's it's great to hear. And I'd say like, as the principal, I have adults who want to come to school, you know, the staff, you know, when they have to miss, they're they're sad to miss, they're disappointed to miss because they want to show up for kids like this and and to go like anybody, whatever they do, you know, when you get to go to work and be around.
00:58:16
Speaker
People you want to be around and and do things that you like doing and are supported in the effort to do them That makes for a good place to work or go to school or anything and you're looking to do Yeah, and Charlie you had a question that I thought was really cute. What did you want to ask? Mr. McComb That you wanted in school. You were very curious as to what the cafeteria might have You remember the question you asked me? Well, you wanted to know about Chipotle and he was very curious you want to ask now I
00:58:45
Speaker
I don't know what I thought. Oh, he's too nervous. I forgot. He can't even look at you. I forgot. I can understand from a child's perspective, he just wants to know why in the world the cafeteria doesn't have like Chipotle or these other really good foods, right? Like Towson Hot Bagel, you know, you just serve like lunch food, cafeteria food. That was his question.
00:59:06
Speaker
And so what's the answer? Well, Charlie, I would love to be able to offer all those items. But one, the price of lunch would just skyrocket. And that would be that would be tough. And I'm not sure that we would have quite enough. There probably be a lot of people buying it first first few days.
00:59:26
Speaker
But I am not sure Chipotle would want to continue to kind of send all the people and materials out if they were only getting like 25 burritos or bowls bought a day. So I think next time I'm in Chipotle, I'll ask what it might take. Okay, I will do that for you and see what they have to say. But I think the model's kind of just not there from a business perspective on their end.
00:59:52
Speaker
And I have a chance as a lunch changes to at all. I know when you met the Obama's, I Michelle really, you know, my wife's a dietician. I remember hearing it when it was happening. Did it make a meaningful impact? Did her initiatives about changing schools, school lunches in America, did that did that take hold in any capacity that you saw?
01:00:12
Speaker
Uh, what I'll say, so, you know, I'm coming, I went from a high school where like the cafeteria is the last place I ever wanted to be to now in my role in elementary school. I'm in there every day. Um, and what I, what I'll see is that there are a lot of fruits and vegetables and, and stuff like the other day, I don't know, we had yarmulke.
01:00:29
Speaker
like the white fruit that was crisp and kids were like, what is that? So I started, I had a pack, I was eating it to show it was not a problem. We have mango cups and blueberries and like, you know, it's not just like the apple or the orange every day. There is diversity in it. And there are, you know, there are a lot of options in terms of fruits and vegetables that are in there. And my understanding is that the food meets the nutritional code, I think,
01:00:54
Speaker
There's only so many things you can do with grab and go breakfast to be the healthiest in the world. So there is like the chocolate chip bar. And I always think you need to have food so the kids will actually eat. There is that middle ground of life. It could be all unprocessed, organic broccoli over there. What are you going to do? They're not going to eat it. Right. That's right. They got hungry kids, hungry kids. They have very hungry kids. So I don't know. So I just thought that was interesting. But I think I see, I mean, you eat, right? You don't complain.
01:01:22
Speaker
He comes home happy most days starving always but you know my son needs school lunch every day Yeah, and that's great for the budget because it's free. That's exactly right in Baltimore County Yeah, so well enough to eat. It's fascinating. So I appreciate I don't take up all your day I know you have more things to do than sit here with me, but I just want to tell you I appreciate the efforts that you've done and with all three of our kids gonna go through the school so I'll probably drag you back on here one day here, you know with maybe one of the other kids and
01:01:50
Speaker
Will complain about something i'll wait to bring you on when i have a complaint that way i'm not the happy-go-lucky it'll be a totally different change
01:01:56
Speaker
Well, let's say it's a pleasure and I hope I'm at Lutherville for all three all the way through and speaks to the commitment. You're in like a decade plus commitment to Lutherville Lab and that's why schools are so important to families. I mean, they are. They are the backbone and yes, we have great public schools here. We're fortunate, but not every public school is fantastic and there's real challenges. And it's just, I also serve communities that have just horrendous reputations, really tough situations.
01:02:25
Speaker
And it's tough. And I don't know even, you know, it's like the reason people move out. And it's I mean, it's a very big problem. That could be your next stage after you're done with Lutherville one day. It's like, how do we. But I think it's more of a community issue, more than a school issue, necessarily. It's reflective of the community in which serves, you know, the school serves. Yep. It's not, you know, it's not there is interplay. They're interconnected.
Encouraging Parental Engagement
01:02:48
Speaker
all the way and the more families that are invested and committed in the school, the more the school will thrive and then that will bring in more invested, committed families. And it really is serving that way. And even schools that struggle, if there's investment from the community and good leadership and good people in the classrooms, they can turn around too.
01:03:08
Speaker
Well, and I guess I'll end it with this. Is there anything that you would say or you would ask of parents, you know, is it simply to get involved? I mean, how do we help the school do well? Is it donate? Is it PTA? Like, what do we do to try to do our little part in making a successful school environment?
01:03:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think that I would start by saying everyone can give trust and generous assumptions to your school. If, you know, build a relationship with a teacher, share what you can about your kid, honor them, build that relationship first. I think everyone can invest in that. And then if you have time or treasure you can give to the school, too, that is, of course, always wonderful. We have, you know, PTAs and those organizations are
01:03:54
Speaker
they make the events and the things that kids look forward to and love coming to and do those extra pieces that really do it does help a school feel like a larger family and a larger community. So I think that is important. But at the heart of what we do is really that relationship with families, the problem solving families and that trust that that's all embedded in. So the approach that people take to their schools and the partnerships that we make is really our number one ask.
01:04:18
Speaker
That's amazing and I will end it with this. How do I get involved? I just thought of something. How do I get involved with either teaching about wealth building or money or real estate? I always thought the one thing I never learned in school, and this is not just elementary, it wasn't a middle. I have a finance degree. I didn't learn it in college about just the basics of what money is and homeownership and the value.
01:04:43
Speaker
Does that make sense? I think it's totally 100% absent from the curriculum I experienced. And I'm like with my kids, if I don't teach them, I don't think anyone's gonna teach them these things. It's not in the curriculum. And I don't know why. Is there a reason for this? And subsequently, is there any way that I could be involved to try to help shed light or at least expose children to something they might not be hearing about at all at home?
01:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, so every student in Maryland does take a personal finance class in high school. I do know that from my experience at Patapsco, that that is a graduation requirement. Oh wow, I didn't get that one. And I didn't either, where I grew up, but that is now an element that is required. So that teaches about credit scores and about things like this? Yeah, and like loans and interest and those pieces are part of it. Oh, okay, that's a start. Yeah, it is a start.
01:05:34
Speaker
And, you know, in elementary curriculum, we are at least recognizing money and the differences in coins and things like that and learning some of the foundational math skills and things like that. But the wealth building and things like that are not, you're right, are not a part of that curriculum.
01:05:52
Speaker
There are some optional experiences that some schools do. Like there is something that we did at Pleasant Plains called Biztown where the students in fourth grade prepare over time and then go to a place that I think works with First Financial and they operate the town. They all have roles and they do a little bit about it.
01:06:13
Speaker
There's a stock market game that some schools that they have a teacher sponsor engage in. So there are bits and pieces. I still remember that. I don't know what year it was, but I had stocks to choose and I had to do research. I bought them and we watched it in a fake portfolio online. Just interact them and see how well we did and why. And that was fascinating.
01:06:34
Speaker
So I would say to you, I would invite you to consider maybe partnering with a teacher on the stock market game, if that's what you're interested in. I think we talk about teaching being a profession where there's always more that you could do. And so that's why sometimes some of these optional things don't get picked up. It might also just not be the teacher's background or forte to lean into it. So if there was a parent partner who was happy to work with them on that, that might be a possibility.
01:07:00
Speaker
Or it maybe could exist you know as like as an after-school club or something like that for for kids who are interested Yeah, well one of these days. It might be a middle school topic I don't know how could be easily that'll be absorbed in these minds right Charlie. Yeah, stock market stock market game is fourth grade Okay, at least in Baltimore County. I don't know too much about it, but I do know that that that's where it falls. Oh
01:07:20
Speaker
Oh, there you go. Well, very nice. Well, once again, thank you so much for joining me today. And Charlie, you want to say thank you to your principal for joining us? Thank you. One game for the road. Rock, paper, scissors. See who wins. Oh, Charlie wins. Of course, Charlie had to win. Well, thanks, everybody, for listening. And thank you once again, Mr. McComb, for joining me. Yeah, thanks for having me.