Transcript
Speaker: And I get to do things like. fly around the country and speak to the FBI and speak to law enforcement all across the country and tell them. the perspective on kindness. Tell them how important it is to... see that kid in the dark who's hating himself and thinks that everybody hates him and thinks that the only thing left in their world is darkness. It's our job to tell them that they're wrong.
Speaker: Welcome to Repair. Making space for more. a podcast from the power project. And now I am. I'm Christy Grace Provene. founder of the Empower Project and creative director for Now I Am, which you can find at nowiam .co.
Speaker: Before we begin, I just want to say. Thank you for being here. Today is September 8th, and this is our very first episode. Honestly, it feels a little like we've just moved into a new home. The furniture isn't all in place yet.
Speaker: We're still figuring out where things belong and some things will evolve as we settle in. That's okay. This space was never meant to be perfect on day one. It's meant to be human.
Speaker: Through Now I Am, we believe stories have the power to repair. We're interested in curiosity over certainty. complexity over easy answers, and the messy, often nonlinear journeys that make us human.
Speaker: where we've been, what changed us, and who we're still becoming. Because none of us arrived fully formed. And Making Space for More is about people whose stories remind us that we are more.
Speaker: than the worst thing we've ever done. the worst thing that's happened to us or the labels that others have placed upon us. Guiding these conversations is our host, Sammy Rangel. He's a social worker, advocate, co -founder, and former executive director of Life After Hate.
Speaker: Sammy brings professional expertise. lived experience and a deep understanding of what it means to move through pain with accountability. Compassion. and hope. And that brings us to our first guest.
Speaker: Erin Stark. As a teenager, after years of abuse, instability, homelessness, and profound isolation, Aaron reached a point where he began planning a mass shooting.
Speaker: He had even arranged to get a gun and was waiting for it to be delivered. Before that happened, Aaron went to see his friend Mike. partly to say goodbye. Mike listened.
Speaker: He gave Aaron a place to stay. And he treated Aaron like a human being at a moment when Aaron says, He didn't feel human at all. Aaron never went back for the gun.
Speaker: Years later, after the Parkland school shooting. Aaron began telling his story publicly. Since then, millions of people have heard him speak about what can drive someone toward that kind of violence.
Speaker: and what human connection can do. to interrupt that trajectory. I've known Aaron for about 10 years. And one of the things I've come to admire most about him.
Speaker: is that he doesn't treat his story as something finished. He keeps examining it. and allowing others to examine it. He always asks the difficult questions of himself and the rest of us.
Speaker: And he's willing to live in the uncomfortable space between accountability for the choices we make. and compassion for the human being making them. That to me is what making space for more is all about.
Speaker: And it's why Aaron felt like exactly the right person for our very first conversation. So welcome to Making Space for More. Thank you. for making space for us. We don't have everything figured out yet.
Speaker: but maybe that's the point. I look forward to rejoining you on the other side of this conversation. Cheers. Sammy, and Aaron.
Speaker: Mike enters the story. with you. And I find this part really fascinating because in my work and in my life. This is a theme that I've noticed.
Speaker: Dual. throughout many years where a number and including all the co -founders who helped me launch a non -profit that we're working on to try to help. do interventions. Almost all of us had this idea that someone had reached out to us and talked to us, whether we knew them or not.
Speaker: In a moment when we were at our worst and they... they a process with such gentle humanity. as if they were caring for us in that moment, right? And we didn't expect that. That kind of changed the narrative, right? So when Mike enters the story,
Speaker: What did he see in you that other people seem to miss? i He just always treated me like an equal. I think he saw the and the my intelligence. I think that he saw...
Speaker: My wanting to be. I always loved the arts, and I always loved music, and I think that we bonded over that. the What Mike really did for me.
Speaker: is He was the one bit that never changed. Like he never judged me for how my. my story was where where I would go to. that group of kids and i would say all of my ah the craziness i was going through and it would like entertain them with mike it was Much more.
Speaker: It wasn't really to entertain. It was just kind of my existence and he never judged me for it. like he never it was never expected i had to be on stage with him like i never I never had to perform my pain to be or be his buddy.
Speaker: And. A lot of times he would. He was around a friend group that was a lot more... um stuck up for lack of a better term he was up went to art school and so we went to a bunch we had a bunch of art school friends and they weren't really mostly happy with having the little dirtball buddy coming around hanging out mess up with everything you know and so A lot of his friends just didn't really like me.
Speaker: And he never wants. He never made me feel like I didn't belong. He never made me feel like I wasn't part of the group. In fact, he would outwardly say, if someone would get up like, oh, Aaron, you smell, you need to get out of here. Mike would jump up and say, no, if you need, if you think he needs to go, you need to leave because he's going to stay here.
Speaker: And i I never saw. like what he was doing at the time. But if you ask him now, he just says he was doing what a friend's supposed to do. Oh. like that's That's his only answer. If I ask him today what what he did back then, he just did what a friend's supposed to do.
Speaker: And at my absolute worst, what he was really there for was like not. Wasn't even really so much the friendship. As it was. reminding me that I could be human.
Speaker: And I don't know how he did that when no one else could. But. The guy's amazing. like Well, let's unpack that a little bit because I think that's going to be... really important to our listeners, right? Because at some point, this this change started to happen.
Speaker: Right. This impact that he had, the the new kind of. Um, way that you were starting to experience the world around you, right? Like things were changing your global. story your global narrative was starting to shift.
Speaker: And obviously because... You were thinking about doing something horrific. but because of Mike's interaction with you and the way he interacted with you, right? And my life is, I've always said that I...
Speaker: I didn't get here by myself Like if it wasn't for the people. that got me through. my worst times by being them about treating me as my best version at that time, I wouldn't be here, right? My my success has to be laid at the feet of all the people that that impacted me when I was at my worst. And i I feel like I relate to you as seeing Mike as this.
Speaker: natural mentor, right? He just kind of took this role into our lives, right? And started to change because of the way he changed. us by the way he was treating us right so At that party, you were describing.
Speaker: having this birthday party and being celebrated. When that chain started to hit you, did it? happen immediately or did that just create a crack and start it start it really created a crack because it was That birthday party, when I walked in, when we left Mike's house on my 19th birthday and I was planning on killing myself.
Speaker: And instead. We show up to his friend's house and my friend's house too, but his friend, Amber, we show up there and I walk into a surprise birthday party for me. that wasn't even supposed to be there when we left Mike's house. like He called ahead and he was like, hey, I got Aaron in the car and he's on his way and it's his birthday today. So literally my buddy, he's in like five minutes time, threw up all the decorations and made a birthday party for me. that i that changed me to my core. Like I walked into it and it really was. Like immediate. It was like.
Speaker: Mike. walking into the light when you're sitting in the dark. like that's that's the best way to describe it like it was that immediate like you go from dark to light pretty quickly but it was it didn't take right away like it wasn't It wasn't like, oh, everything shifted.
Speaker: Because again, everything's a process. So that was the biggest crack. That was the biggest crack that sent me. on like a self -reflective Hmm. kind of like recovery for better lack of a better term like how ah how am i managed to get finally get out of that dark And it was a couple months after that.
Speaker: That. I started. a process what I call acknowledgement. which was like the mechanics of how I did that, how I got out. when i was It was like five or six months after that birthday party and I'm bartending at a bar.
Speaker: My mom is the manager at the bar. and it's a Veterans and Foreign Wars bar. My family is chilling on the other side. My stepdad's... sisters partying. And.
Speaker: She looks over to me. and I'm not part of the conversation, but she looks over to me and says, oh, you know you love me. And I said, no, I don't. And she said, what? And I didn't mean to say that. That wasn't. Like I wasn't intending to say all it just came out. And she said, what? I said, no, you don't love you don't love me. I mean, I don't love you. i You tried to kill yourself in front of me. You smoked crack in front of me. I don't actually love you.
Speaker: And she blew up. She started screaming. And for me, it was like white noise. It was like. Like a static. Because. But it was like immediate, like an anvil jumped off my chest. Like, i I didn't care what she was saying. But I could tell that something huge happened inside of me.
Speaker: by doing that. And I spent the night examining that to myself, figuring out like what that was. And over the next couple of days. I went on a process of what I call acknowledgement. where I went to the people that hurt me.
Speaker: And I told them how I feel. But it was extremely important to me in that moment to not do it with retaliation in mind. I never went to somebody and said, you hurt me and you need to pay for it.
Speaker: I went to them and I said, you hurt me and our relationship has fundamentally changed and I don't actually love you and I'm done. And I walked away. because it had nothing to do, mean to me, the retaliation, if I'm asking them, telling them that they need to pay for what they did to me. That just continues this contest. It continues this back and forth and keeps the chaos going. It keeps me engaged in their darkness.
Speaker: But by telling them how I feel and walking away. It gave me the entire power over the relationship. I get to choose if you're in my life from this point on. And I get to decide.
Speaker: whether or not I'm even carrying your damage with me anymore. And some people cried. Some people begged me not to go. And some people yelled at me, but I didn't care. Because it had nothing to do with their response.
Speaker: Excuse me. Boom. It had everything to do. With my ability today of being able to sit confidently and say I never sit and think, man, I wish they knew how I feel.
Speaker: Because they know how I feel. I told them. And then no now I'll tell them again on the most public stage possible. so Well, I want to... I want to go back to... what we're We're about to shift a little bit into...
Speaker: the aspect of repair, right? And then the person that you're becoming and that you are now. Right. How do you live with the knowledge of what almost happened without allowing that moment to define your entire life?
Speaker: Because one of the most fundamental things I had to decide. In my recovery. was that I am not my damage. You know? One of the good, like, again, pardon my language, but it's what what he said to me over and over again, the thing that Mike would tell me, I'm a good kid in a shit world. I'm telling me that over and over again.
Speaker: that it was the fundamental line of that was that. I'm a good kid. in this world of damage. I always thought I was the monster. I'm the broken one. I'm the damage. I'm the i'm the thing that's causing this to happen. Something is wrong with me.
Speaker: And coming to that realization. That. And I say this taking full responsibility for the choices that I made and the decisions that I made and and and the ramifications of those. I take full responsibility for that. especially from age 13 on. I take absolute responsibility for for that.
Speaker: But. Realistically. Looking at it as an adult now. from The age of 13 and before? I had no agency of my life. I had no control over where I was at or who I was around or what I was going to eat or where we're going to sleep. I was at the whim crackheads.
Speaker: Like, I was living in a crack house and surrounded by abuse, surrounded by degradation and violence, and I was trying to survive. And I was making... decisions about myself that were long lasting.
Speaker: But a lot of those decisions were not self -imposed. A lot of those decisions were put onto to me by the damage of other people. They were going through their own hell. And them reflecting onto me. And so I had to come to that realization.
Speaker: that I am not my damage. I am not the badness of my life. I am a good person. And I've done good things. And my past, even though I... I made bad decisions and I planned a horrible attack.
Speaker: The... The fact that. I was able. to step away Reassess my humanity. and continue on with life. Let me be to where I am today, where I sit. I'm a father of four. I have a beautiful family. i have my My two oldest and my youngest are downstairs with my one -year -old grandson and my wife right now. They're playing, watching TV. Like I. I won in my life. I literally used what happened to me.
Speaker: and the parenting that I went through. and the abuse and the insults and all of that. as an example of what to do with my own kids. I just do the reverse. You know, I tell them I love them so much it's annoying. I'm at every game. I'm at every performance. My house is the house where all the friends can come and stay. like That's if all of a sudden at 2 o 'clock in the morning I have a random teenager knocking on my door saying, Mr. Stark, I need somewhere to be.
Speaker: then this is where you're going to be. you know like and And to me, that's the important thing. i learned I'm right there with you, man. I'm right there. I mean, I've got kids of my own. I've got a whole new perspective on life and on parenting. and My past has kind of made me the parent I am today because I have something to measure against what I don't want to be.
Speaker: Right. Exactly. so like it's an incredible It's an incredible feeling. It's freedom. I tend to know that... My kids. Don't know that existence so much. Then when I tell them about it, it's like it's a movie. Yeah. i like Like that to me makes me so proud. My 14 year old is the class ambassador. When she, when the new kids come to her class, they sit up next to Isabella because Isabella is the one that could have shown the record. I can't think of a better.
Speaker: ending for that like that to me shows me that I was able to use what happened to me. and and fuel where I am now. And I get to do things like... fly around the country and speak to the FBI and speak to law enforcement all across the country and tell them.
Speaker: the perspective on kindness. Tell them how important it is to... see that kid in the dark who's hating himself and thinks that everybody hates him and thinks that the only thing left in their world is darkness, it's our job to tell them that they're wrong.
Speaker: and that they really do matter and that they can make it out of that dark. Because there's a whole group telling them that they can't. There's a whole group telling them not only that they can't, but they're good if they're if they're a monster. you know I remember when I was going through my master's program for being becoming a social worker, one of the most profound.
Speaker: lines I heard. was It was a line by Freud where he said, the shadow of the parent falls onto the child. Oh absolutely. And so what you're talking about, what I experienced this whole.
Speaker: Like, I became the message that everyone was giving me, even though it wasn't meant for me, right? It wasn't it wasn't about me. It was about whatever they were going through. but pouring into me, but then we take it a step further and we internalize it, right? we We become the message that they've delivered, right? well that make me so When you tell me so much that I'm worthless, I will eventually believe it. And then I'm going to do everything I can to make everybody else agree with me.
Speaker: You know, I'm going to I'm going to make sure that you think that I'm the monster that I know that I am. And that's the most dangerous spot someone can get in. when When you... when when kindness looks so alien that it looks like abuse you know like Like when someone's saying, oh, you're nice, you're the good person. No, you're really wrong.
Speaker: Because if you saw me, you'd see the monster I am. So if you think I'm good, you don't really see who I really am. And that. That right there. is the pivot point, in my opinion. where... We can reach these guys. We can reach people like me.
Speaker: by just... being there with them. Mike didn't... Mike was not the kind of friend that's everything's all rainbow and sunshine. It's not like everything's going to be great. A real friend calls you on your crap and tells you what's wrong and says, no, dude, you can be good. But you you yeah, they were mean to you. That's because you were being rude to them. Stop being rude. They'll be nice to you, too. They call you on your stuff, but they do it with love and compassion and and no insults and no degradation and remembering that.
Speaker: Just because I walk in a different life than you, because I happen to have a different social status than you. came from a different household. It doesn't make me lesser. It doesn't make you better. It doesn't make me better than you either.
Speaker: Like it goes both ways with that. And I like that point, you know, but, you know, I've... I've been in this space for a while and, you know, started a whole nonprofit to help people from. the violent far right.
Speaker: get out of that life and change their lives right and but one of the things and i know maybe some of our audience members will think this too was that, okay, you've healed. But that doesn't exempt you from responsibility for the things that you've done, right?
Speaker: What does accountability look like for you? in this new life for yours. Well, I have the small benefit of never fully going through with any of the attack. so My mind was all planning in my head.
Speaker: Now, even having said that. I have spoken with the... kids who would have been the potential victims from the high school. I have the who are now friends of mine and support me all the way on this journey.
Speaker: I... I've actually even had contact with the the bullies that were bullies of mine when I was growing up, the ones I talk about in my TED Talk about dropping food on my head. you know And the best.
Speaker: My best giving back. is to be able to What I do now. As I go to the federal law enforcement and I stand up in front of... 1 ,500 FBI agents, and with no script, no slides. i i don't go with any kind of prep i go with just me and a microphone And I do a full presentation about my life. And then I take questions live from the audience.
Speaker: and i let them peel and poke back and if they find a scab peel that back and poke some more And by doing that... My goal is to give them the message that we need to give love to the ones you think deserve it the least.
Speaker: Now, I've been able to say. I can confidently say now I've made national impact. by doing that. I've actually changed national policy and had A.
Speaker: A... System -wide effect. when it comes to how people deal with that dark. and I've done it with the highest level of the federal government. And I've done it with.
Speaker: The... the people who actually do the work and not just the politicians who are in the response, yeah like the actual social workers. and and agents and that. And to me,
Speaker: Here's my, I'll give you a small story that is my single best. a thing that I've received in one of my talks. that shows to me why how I've given back to this and how I say it when you talk about a recompense for what I've done.
Speaker: So I gave a speech at Quantico. and it was to this big event i spoke to quantico virginia at the fbi training facility and they have invited the top 50 mental health workers in the country to this event.
Speaker: And I was their keynote speaker. And one of the ladies there, I gave my talk, and then afterwards I do my Q and &A. And again, I always do it with no script, no slides, just me and a microphone. and just Do my talk. And then the first lady that stood up. told me that she didn't have a question. She just wanted to tell me a story.
Speaker: She was the head of the U .S. Marshals Service. Okay. Now. She told me. That.
Speaker: a year previous, they had had this guy and he had done something really bad. And he was at this pivot point. If he, if they, if they. Put him in prison. He was going to reoffend and stay in that system. And he was going to be stuck in that system for the rest of his life. But maybe they could reach him and put him into this treatment program. But they couldn't get through to him. He was really toxic. He was really aggressive. And he was really angry. They couldn't reach him. And so they did they did a deep dive on the on the internet trying to figure out. They came across my TED Talk.
Speaker: Okay. Then they did a deep dive on my story. They heard me tell a story, my story about Amber saving me with the blueberry peach pie, the whole surprise birthday party story. All right. So they go to this guy out of the blue with a big tray of brownies, with a bunch of candles in it, with a we're happy you exist day.
Speaker: It's a surprise, and we're happy you're here, party. Okay. Now, fast forward a year. That guy not only completed his treatment program, he now teaches the treatment program with everybody with the administrators and tells them all the time that those brownies saved his life.
Speaker: Wow. Now, I got that from the head of the U .S. Marshal Service. yeah So if I can use my life. and the pain I went through to help that happen or to help, say, Scarlett Lewis. who's a mom from Sandy Hook, who lost her her son in the tragedy of Sandy Hook.
Speaker: And she's now become a close friend of mine. And to help her. And she tells me that me doing this is giving her a little bit of peace. And we've spoken alongside each other on stage. Like if I can help that impact.
Speaker: then it doesn't cost me anything. to face the demons in my life. and to show where I am now. if it helps even one person not become mean. But I'm going to keep on talking until I don't have a voice.
Speaker: And I think that that's a ah really good pivot into this next thought I've been thinking about, right? like I obviously know. Like the system failed both of us. Right. I remember when my sister went to the school and reported that I was being abused.
Speaker: The school took the report and just dropped us off back at home and then told my parents that we actually made this report. Right. So they leave me in the hands of that. Right. So and that's just an example. But many that very similar. We have that.
Speaker: background where the system was just failing. yeah what would what would this What would it have to look like today? Now, I want you to think about this from this perspective, right? What would the system or the culture of repair have to look like?
Speaker: back then in order to have an impact on a ah younger version of you? What would it have to look like? So I think the biggest difficulty I faced and and what happens again, what people face these days. is The adults have indemnified themselves out of effectiveness. there When you're walking into a counseling office, if i'm if I'm in the dark like I was but as a teen, I'm trying to go get help.
Speaker: It's like walking in a room full of spikes that have pointed at my own head. like I don't know what I might say. They're going to cause your jaws of death to slam down and bite my head off. But you know what I can't say. But since I don't know what I can't say, I'm going to have to censor myself to you.
Speaker: And I have to immediately do math in my head. You tell me you're going to help me. Does your help help or does your help hurt? Because that guy ever said he's over there said he's going to help me. He lied to me. That guy over there said he's going to help me even less than me. Does your help help me or does your help hurt me?
Speaker: And then I have to do the math in my head of how honest with you can I be? about the hell of my daily life before you judge me for it. And before you recoil in fear.
Speaker: Do I have to censor my morning? to you. Not about some plan or about some attack or about some suicidal tendencies. Do I have to censor what happened to me today? just to talk to you to keep your fears intact.
Speaker: Because if I do, then you're not actually helping. And so ah what I believe think that we need to do is we need to find a way. Now, mandatory reporting lines are there for a reason. They're absolutely there for a reason. They're there for a legitimate purpose. They have all the... the the logic behind them, I completely understand.
Speaker: But. there needs to be a way for the kid to be able to see that. What I advise... is shine a bright flashlight. On that tripwire. Shine a bright, flash shiny flashlight. Say okay.
Speaker: I know you can't say these things These are the things. that I know I can't hear. Okay. Tell me what you're feeling in a way that I can hear it. Because every kid these days, or they they deal with language filters all the time on the internet.
Speaker: They deal with language filters all every day. they ah they Like, for instance, that if you you can't say suicide. on the internet. You know what you say instead? On a life. Yeah. so that But they get the same concept out.
Speaker: They just get it in a way to where the language filter can deal with it. So tell the kid, tell him these this is what I cannot hear. I'm on your team with this. I'm not hiding my my penalties from you. Because the penalties are always there. The kid knows the penalties are there when he's walking into the room. He knows that this might happen. It's just where that line is that's the scary part.
Speaker: Like, show me what I can't tell you. And then I'll tell you what's in my head in a way you can hear it. End. we're pull back those teeth a little bit. Give give space for the kids. Remember that if you're If you're coming at it from from a...
Speaker: administrative perspective or a counseling perspective. Remember that sometimes these kids... If you're like I was. And you are. raised in Where anger and violence and degradation is the language of the land and lying is what everybody does and you abuse to get what you want.
Speaker: And then all your friends are anger and lying and abuse because they're going through the same kind of stuff. and you're getting told you're worthless all the time. Your internal monologue hates yourself just as much as your outside monologue does. And then you expect these kids to walk into a counseling office and sit down and say, oh, I was feeling emotionally dysregulated today.
Speaker: like no he's going to try to express himself in the language that he's comfortable with And if you can't take that. Because you've put your lines of protection so far ahead. that it protects even from your offense.
Speaker: then your lines are too far ahead. Yeah, I think we're we're talking about meeting meeting people where they're at, not where we're at, right? Yeah. I think to add to what I think is necessary in that space is our three simple words, nonjudgmental.
Speaker: compassion. Yes. Empathy. Those three things need to be layered into any relationship. Right. And I've also learned that. Before your... skill sets before all your wisdom and knowledge of how to do your job really play a part in this.
Speaker: I think. spending time developing that relationship. with folks right before you get into all of that. And remember that sometimes your internal stereotypes don't apply.
Speaker: And just because you think this person might be angry. It might be a threat. You need to always see the full capacity of the kid and not just the anger and the damage. One of the most eye -opening things I've ever taken a part of, I was part of this really, really, I can't say exactly what department because it was that highest eye level of a thing. I was in this really, really high level thing with the FBI. I can say it was FBI. I got clearance to say that.
Speaker: Um, But. the it was it was the people that do interrogations and it was this big crew of this Really, really high level stuff. And they they had done a workup on me as if I was a suspect. And they along that, the person leading the thing asked the crew. Okay, so tell me something about Aaron. If you're if you're going to deal with him, what are some of his his characteristics? And they started listing off, well, he's angry, he's toxic, he's mean, he insults people.
Speaker: And the guy stopped him and he says, yeah, all that's true. But if you only see the negative in this kid, you're only get to see the only going to see him as a negative. What are some good things? He's into the arts. He's into music. He reads comic books. And I was sitting there with my mind blown.
Speaker: Because that's a normal conversation to have. But it's being had. by the top levels of federal law enforcement. yeah and And, like, if... If. If everybody... is searching for the same thing.
Speaker: Maybe we all need to see that what we're all looking for is some way to be compassionate and connect with the person across from us. and see if the person really isn't as different as we think. And there's a lot more similar than there is different.
Speaker: And the more we can see that. the more that maybe... we can... Stop. this divide that's splitting. And i've've I think one of the... One of the insights I've developed over the last couple of years, more recent insight, is that
Speaker: it It is even less to do with our differences and more to do with how to close the distance between myself and the other person. like if I can concern myself with closing that distance. All those differences, not not that they're not important, not that they don't matter, not that we shouldn't see them.
Speaker: But what becomes more important is the relationship that I can build with you. And I think you were talking about people who might be lying as a part of their defense mechanism. I've learned in my experience, like.
Speaker: they They might do that for now, but I have to work harder to establish trust so that they can feel more comfortable being honest with me. Yeah, well, it's like I said, what you're saying.
Speaker: It's like I say, like, you'll do the test. You're like, OK, you say if you could take me at a 10. Or add a 2. Okay, I'll go up to a 2. Say you take me at a 4. Okay, I'll go up to a 4. Take me to seven. Cool. Good for you. I wake up at a 10 every day.
Speaker: 10 is where I start my day. So if you left at a seven, then leave now. like you have to it To me, it's all about authenticity. It's not about the the differences actually make us better. like It's not about...
Speaker: being part of the team and always being the buddy buddy with the kids and always being part of the crew. its it It's being authentically who you are. all the time when you're dealing with them. Don't come up lying. Don't come up.
Speaker: trying to manipulate don't come up trying and the same thing the more authentic you can be the more they'll come to you authentically. you know i have a big I have a tip. that I found is the most effective from ah ah in ah in a kind of setting. If you have a kid coming up to you in the dark, that's like I was, and you want to connect with them.
Speaker: And there. are Two methods. that I recommend. One of them is not so so not so effective, but very fast. One of them is way more effective, takes a little bit more effort. The not so effective way is do something that makes you a fallible human.
Speaker: in the conversation. Do something that makes you a person with it with ah that can make a mistake. so that you're both humans. You know, like because if I'm if I'm students. and you're a counselor, then I'm not. engaging but if you're sammy And I'm Aaron.
Speaker: And you have the job as counselor and I have job as student because they're both jobs. then we can both at least talk about that. you know like We can both be humans. But if you want to be a little bit better. Take something.
Speaker: And this app works for people who are depressed, for kids who are trying to shut you out, for anybody in your life that's on that dark side that is trying to fall off. Take something that they like. To them.
Speaker: that they didn't bring to you first. and take it to them on purpose. Take something to them. me and be like, okay, this is this is cool. that they didn't first bring to you. Like for me, I was a big comic book nerd. i read I read comic books all the time.
Speaker: If anybody ever sat next to me and said, oh, you like Nightcrawler? I'd be like, holy crap, dude, you know who Nightcrawler is? You know who the X -Men are? You're my buddy. You know, that's entirely different than sitting next to me being like. You know, do you like comic books?
Speaker: Do you like the X -Men? Do you like Nightcrawler? Then you're just breadcrumbing. You're pulling stuff out of me. But if you took it two steps ahead, now I have to ask you if you like comic books. Now, now instead of testing you, now I'm going to you to make sure that that other guy is okay.
Speaker: You know, like, I trust you. Can I trust that guy? Because now you speak my language and I can speak your language about something that I love. And... That's... yeah It's respect and compassion and and connection. it's It's giving the kids the respect they've had.
Speaker: and giving each other. all of us, the respect that we've carried our emotions through our lives our entire time. And that we have the ability to express that. 100%. So Aaron, finally, you know. I'm thinking about someone who might be listening right now.
Speaker: um who might feel invisible. who might feel like nothing. Like, they don't matter. Maybe that nobody sees them. Nobody really understands them.
Speaker: What do you want them to hear right now from who you are right now? The darkness that you're in right now is very temporary. Chaos is not self -sustaining. and the darkness will not last. Eventually there will be light.
Speaker: The only thing, i what I tell my own kids is the only thing absolutely constant in life is change. The only thing certain is that tomorrow is going to be different than today. It might not be better. It might not be worse, but it will be different.
Speaker: And we have choices with that. We can either resist that change. and get worn down by that change and get turned into rebels on the beach. or we can adapt with that change and turn to the water itself.
Speaker: Because that's all we really are is change. that I am not the me of yesterday. And I am not the meat of tomorrow. And... the the more we can realize that. the more we can realize that our past does not create who we are.
Speaker: And the future is taking every single step we take every day. Yeah. Aaron. you know Thank you for trusting us with your story. And you know what I hope people carry away in addition to what you're saying right now.
Speaker: is that Our humanity matters most, not the things that we've done, not the things we've experienced, not the things that we will do, but our humanity. Right. And I think that's where that nonjudgmental piece comes in. Like, if you can still see me as a human, regardless of all the things I have thought or done or tried to do. Right. I think it may be one of the most important things that we can do to prevent.
Speaker: violence that we can do to prevent Someone. unaliving themselves, right? I think those are the thing those are the types of steps that we have to take. If we can see the value in each other, no matter who we are and what what we've done in life. So again, thank you, Aaron, for sharing your story with us.
Speaker: And I'm sure plenty of people are going to get something out of what we talked about today. Thank you, Sammy. Thank you for having me on. um And yeah, I really appreciate you having me on your show. Thank you. Wow. Sammy, what a conversation. What a first episode.
Speaker: I know. um There are so many things like still going through my mind about talking with Aaron and that interview. that that conversation we had One of the biggest... Bye.
Speaker: things that strikes me right now that's still very fresh in me and I find it incredible. as Although me and Aaron have a very different path. of how we got to where we got and how we got to where we're at now.
Speaker: there's so many similarities like as he was telling me about his experiences with his family his experiences with the system uh first of all i had It was just bringing up all the memories I had about the exact same. types of folks.
Speaker: behaving the exact same ways in my life and then having essentially the same outcomes like i felt rejected i felt like i couldn't trust these folks i felt Like, there's no help? coming you know no one's going to be able to help me in this situation And I'm thinking, you know, Aaron and I had this very similar life coming up in that sense. Right. And then as he was talking about.
Speaker: how he was able to relate to Mike. and And Mike helped him relate to the world in a very different way. As I said in the show, like I. There were people like my uncle George, like he was probably the first person.
Speaker: to touch something inside of me. Outside of my knowledge, I didn't even know this was happening. it was it was probably a year or two later. when I realized that's where my change started.
Speaker: Aaron had the exact same situation remember when I asked him you know was it Did it happen suddenly or did it take time? And it was a bit of both, right? Like there was this awareness that came on, but then you still don't understand. the landslide that's coming down towards you. of of what does it mean Yeah, like, what does it mean? and and and how How am I changing? like i I couldn't have told you. I was mad when my process started.
Speaker: You know, I was like, how dare you tinker with my mind like that? you know I didn't know it was for my benefit and that it would like change. And there's, I think that's something we can all relate to in a sense when we're going through change. Right. And for me.
Speaker: I think Aaron's story reson is going to resonate with a lot of folks because it's the human condition that most of us suffer through. we We all go. through these disappointments, through these rejections, through these major letdowns, what I would call like big failures by the world around us, right? You know, and our parents, you know, one of the things I was thinking about when he was talking about his mom.
Speaker: you know. Mother on the lips of a child is God. Like I remember when I read that, right? Like the words they say. are so impactful. like Even though we didn't talk a whole lot about his mom, his mom was central to the story because that's his paradigm. That's where his global narrative came from. It was it started there and it's existed throughout his life. and What? In many ways, me and him are still trying to... recover from that.
Speaker: Mm hmm. Well, and I think that's where the concept of repair is really interesting because you know, there are multiple relationships that in multiple journeys that people will go aaron is a great example you are a great example of of You know, it could be repair with a parent.
Speaker: It could be repair with himself, yourself. It could be repair with... um sometimes it's a more internal experience. Sometimes it's is more external, right? There's like,
Speaker: the journey of how he got to where he is today. That whole journey is a journey of repair. And there were multiple stops. along the way to get to where he is.
Speaker: i mean i think that's an incredible way of putting it right it's like And eventually they became rest stops. Right. but It was a place where you could take a moment and... Yeah. recover and breathe and heal and just Maybe close your eyes in peace for a moment. His story, is I think, is going to resonate with a lot of our listeners. I'm really glad you chose him as one of our ah first guests.
Speaker: Well, amazing. You guys, it was a great conversation and I am. Excited for what's next. will We'll be back soon. But we're back soon.