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Won't You Sing With Me, Daria?
61 Plays1 year ago
In the first episode of Season 2, Camille talks with multi-cultural children's musician and polyglot, Daria, about her life, her travels, her music, and how she helps kids to "just be kids." We listen to her song "Assalam Aleykum."
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Won't You Sing With Me'
00:00:08
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Won't You Sing With Me, a podcast by me, Camille Harris from the Silly Jazz Band. Join me as I talk to fellow children's musicians about their work. Why do they make children's music? What's important about it? What makes a good children's song? What is different between a kid's song versus an adult's song? And why do they do what they do?
00:00:29
Speaker
This is a podcast for fellow children's musicians, as well as educators and parents, but little ones can listen as well. Thanks so much for tuning in and enjoy the conversation.
Meet Daria: Promoting Cultural Diversity
00:00:43
Speaker
Hello, today we're talking with world music children's performer Daria. Her full name is Daria Marmalu Cassiano. She spent four decades performing in the USA and around the world, creating music to inspire all of the world's children. Along with numerous national awards for her culturally diverse music, Daria is a published author of multicultural teaching resources that introduces children to world cultures through music, world music, instruments, and musical play. Along with bilingual versions of popular world music songs, Daria's Have a Dream song is used widely to celebrate Martin Luther King Day.
00:01:19
Speaker
Her Earth Day anthem is used in over a dozen different countries around the world. Her Beautiful Rainbow World song is used in Australia as part of Respecting Others curriculum in South African schools as part of a Teach Tolerance initiative and in a recent book, Beautiful Rainbow World, that features dazzling images of multicultural and mixed-race children from around the world.
Purpose of the Podcast
00:01:38
Speaker
Welcome Daria. Thanks for coming. Oh, it's it's excellent to be here and nice to meet you Camille. I hear you're interviewing some amazing folks and people should subscribe to the podcast. Yeah, I hope people do. I i'm really appreciate it. It's a kind of a gift of love for me to the children's music musician community.
00:01:57
Speaker
you know to say, hey, you know there's not as many resources with this type of topic. So I think it's something that we all talk day to day when we're just talking with each other. Whenever I meet a troll musician, we talk about these things. So I just wanted to create a platform for that. I'm really happy that you're here. It's a great idea too, because when I was growing up in the 1960s, for a while in the United States and for a while in Peru,
00:02:20
Speaker
And you didn't see anything like this. You know, anything for children was very dumbed down. And it was by people who didn't love kids. They were just kind of trying to fill a market niche. And even books, books never had characters that looked like me or had or came from different countries. And now I think we live in a it's wonderful that we live in a new world where we can find children's musicians that are bilingual, multilingual,
00:02:47
Speaker
that are gay, that are straight, that are, you know, they really reflect the diversity of who we are and they help us grow up. And that's just so beautiful. it I think it is too. I think it's really important. You know, I um remember growing up, we would listen to the Raffi Christmas album.
00:03:05
Speaker
And we still do. And he sings Petit Papa Noel, the like French version, because he's French-Canadian. And so he speaks French. And I always thought that was really cool. So when I was learning French and then Spanish, I i honestly, Raffi could do it, so so could I.
Role of Music in Language and Culture
00:03:21
Speaker
but Camille, you pointed to something that I learned decades ago is that music is a great way to learn to kind of become a part of another culture. Because once you repeat a song, there's always things in there that you recognize. Then when you start speaking the language, whether it's I love you or or this or that, all of a sudden the language starts to be understandable. So anyone interested in having bilingual or multilingual children start with music.
00:03:49
Speaker
Learn the songs together, have fun with them, do music and movement with them because then your child will say, I recognize that's the word for mom. That's the word for flower. That's the word for I love you. And all of a sudden you've like turned the key in the lock and you've opened the learning. Otherwise it's really, it can be difficult in the beginning before it becomes easy.
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah. I noticed that you have your, you released it. I thought it was really smart to release the easy songs for English learners album that you released. Um, that has such an interesting history because I had had it all finished. But when the Ukrainian war started and I found that so many families, including families we knew cause my grandfather was from east of Kiev, um, when they started to come all of a sudden, I mean, aside from the horror of war, they're here.
00:04:42
Speaker
many with minimal english so i found a way to um a sponsor that sponsored this so i could create the whole album and i do have a version with all ukrainian ah translations so that you can learn english.
00:04:57
Speaker
with basic songs like I Have a Dream or Beautiful Rainbow World or You Are My Sunshine. You start with that and you it makes that language journey easier. And I was just asked to do a version of that in Spanish for that that is going free out to anyone at the border to several charities that you know for the families that are incoming. you know that that And the most interesting thing is I hear from parents saying,
00:05:26
Speaker
my child in spanish my child brought this home and now we're singing it together and my child is becoming my teacher so i can speak more english and i can do what i want to do and that's awesome you know yes it really is i mean i think that i find that even just as a teacher with children how much i learn from being around them. you know And also, or speaking of Spanish, i when I'm talking to little kids in Spanish, I know my Spanish isn't perfect. And so when I talk to little kids, it's easier to be corrected by a kid because they know how to, that they're being corrected all the time so they have this ability to give you a constructive correction. you know And it's really fascinating sometimes I've said something wrong and they're just like, no
00:06:09
Speaker
Or, yeah, I have
Cultural Lessons and Language Learning
00:06:10
Speaker
so many memories. that I could talk for hours about all the interactions with little kids I've had in French and Spanish. And just this always like, oh, yeah, I've learned more from them. I remind of the song where it was like, yo me llamo paco, paco, yo, paco, yo me llamo paco y kin el esto. And that's how I learned that. Me llamo camil because of that song. And I always i keep it in my head still. That's from when I was like in sixth grade.
00:06:36
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that's perfect. Yeah. So you are a musician, you are multilingual, you're multicultural as a person. So you wanted to bring that into your music and kind of give that to the world. How did you get into children's music specifically? Well, it was kind of a strange journey, you know, having lived in so many different countries. i and You know how some people understand the world through books?
00:06:59
Speaker
Some understand it through numbers, some understand it through other things. And for me, it was always music. Wherever I landed, music was home. you know And there was just this natural love for the music around me. And when I came back to the United States from Peru, I didn't know what I would do because people didn't want to listen to Peruvian music. And um I had grown up a little in the United States as part of a folk song group. So I thought, well, I'll do folk songs.
00:07:29
Speaker
And I ended up doing that, youre trying to fish around and find where I belong, I ended up doing it in a library. And what I did was I brought lots of instruments the kids could try. And that was how music was made in South America. you know It wasn't like, I am the performer, I am so wonderful, love me. it was Music is is that community thing and it nobody's there with the sign saying, I give you a two, you're terrible. Everyone's there.
00:07:57
Speaker
Everyone joins in everyone makes a kind of magic that's bigger than a recorded version of what you just did. So that's what i tried to create here at this library and the kids love that you're bringing spoons you're bringing and and i didn't have a lot of instruments so i made them from recycled like containers like maracas and rattles and and kids go oh i can do that and Of course, I added songs I knew from around the world you know that that I knew they would know and I knew their parents would know and I knew their grandparents would know, and that was the start of it. they really They said, we've never had anything like that. We love music. We love music for family audiences. But this was great. You like you made a jam band. So it was kind of one of those wonderful accident happy accidents.
00:08:47
Speaker
and from there she recommended me to someone else and someone else and I just want to recreate not just a performance but that sense that everyone belongs that you know what if you want to clap if you want to sign if you want to move if you want to get up and dance it it's for you it's for us you know it's that's you that music has kind of turned into a um a very commercial thing, I find sad.
Concerns About Mature Themes in Music
00:09:16
Speaker
Often find, I don't know if you agree with me too, when you look at
00:09:21
Speaker
a lot of the pop music and children singing it, they're very it's very mature themes. you know And I really want our eight-year-old to be an eight-year-old. I really want our 12-year-old to be a 12-year-old. And i it's a little sad to me to go places and have kids now sing, can I sing you a song? And it's this involved kind of love, romance, kick you, you know kind of They're kind of deeper emotions that just don't belong in our 12-year-old world or 11-year-old world. That just happened to me yesterday afternoon. An eight-year-old came up and said, can I sing a song? I always let them sing into the microphone, play a piano. It's always so adorable. Beautiful. And I said, yeah. And so she said, I'm going to sing Work by Rihanna and Drake.
00:10:05
Speaker
which is this like famous song for like having her grinding up in a sexual way on Drake. And that's what she wanted to sing. I don't know a lot of pop music, so I'm going to take your word for that. Yeah. And so you know I said, OK. And I let her sing it. She doesn't know what she's saying, but she's kind of saying, you know.
00:10:24
Speaker
but I was like, ah okay, great. She said, I've never touched a piano before. She was so happy to be there and to share this music, but the only access I think she's had is her mom's iPhone. And so that's the music that she's listening to. and i and she loved But she, being a eight-year-old, kind of tall eight-year-old, loved Wheels on the Bus. She was participating for all of the call and response songs I did. She did every she was participating fully as a child there with music that's made for her and appropriate yeah for her.
00:10:53
Speaker
And i think she would I think she would crave that, honestly. I think she would love to have access to that type of music. But her mom just dropped her off and left. So I didn't even get to talk to her mom to be like, hey, check out this, you know, or anything like that. And so hopefully she'll come to another show because it's the one I do regularly.
00:11:10
Speaker
But yeah, that exact same thing just i mean does just happened to me. and you know The thing about it is it it's kind of you know it kind of isn't the mom's fault or the dad's fault. I think it's the commercialism. Yeah, I agree. We live in a world we live in a place where where he where profits are over people. So if it sells, if it shocks,
00:11:30
Speaker
you know, then it's there out in front. And there's no thought about about what you know, how do you and and even for me, I thought there's just a lot of over sexualizing, you know, when you're 10 or 11, you should be having a sleepover, you should be having it, you should be doing things that are that are right there, no one should rush you to become I'm I want to avoid that. That's what the girl's like, I want a boyfriend. I need a boyfriend. And I'm looking at her, it's like, you sweetheart, have boys as friends. Don't rush it. it's It goes by so quickly. And all that growth, all that happiness, the friendship, that the memories, you can't get by that time back. you know Please don't rush, especially our girls.
00:12:14
Speaker
into into being grown up women that are, you know, that are into looking away or whatever. but They just people should be able to do, yeah, they should be ah able to just live that, but also they deserve to. Yes. That's, thousands of years of evolution have made children as children. And through your four, you respond certain ways. When you're six, you respond, you know? And even just the whole idea of the constant stimulation with, you know, kids in front of, I used to gripe about kids in front of the television set, but now it's multiple platforms. You know, it's so wonderful when a child can just sit and and watch fireflies and listen to, you know, I think our development is moving just, it there's just too much.
00:13:02
Speaker
And too much is not always better. And, you know, when you're talking about wheels of the bus, songs like that, that repetition, that is age. That is just you've hit them right where the age level is. You hit a concept and you build on it. You make it fun. You add things. You show them they can add things.
00:13:20
Speaker
It's perfect. That's how you teach them to write or teach them how a story sequences. It's just so perfect. Please, let's not move our kids,
Children's Curiosity and Inclusivity in Music
00:13:29
Speaker
you know, to to the grown up world, because sometimes the grown up world really is not so easy. I would love to just go back to being a kid. Come on. And we got to help you to buy the choice and say, OK, yeah, send me back but playing with my little Cabbage Patch dolls in the hallway.
00:13:49
Speaker
I was speaking of Wheels of the Bus. I don't know if you noticed one of my new releases called Wheels on the Wawa. yeah and What I love to do is introduce, you know, you everyone knows Wheels on the Bus and it's one of those perfect songs. But I thought, well, let's set it in Cuba or Puerto Rico where in Among Spanish speakers, we always joke about, what do you call that? What do you call that? Yeah, yeah. I was just reading about popcorn in all the different countries the other day. It's so funny. Agua cate, avocados, call them palta. And everyone's like, what's a palta? You call them palta. I don't want a palta. No, but I'm going to give you my agua cate. What's that? Yeah.
00:14:25
Speaker
And the joke among many of my friends was that in Peruvian culture, wah-wah is a baby. It's from the case of the word, yo me amo, mi wah-wah. Even if you're speaking Spanish, your baby's a wah-wah. And the other Latinos poking me in the ribs going, that's a bus. Do you like your bus? And it just points to how these little wonderful micro, how each Dialect or area absorbs different things. And that's what makes us rich and fun. and if And if people ask when you're seeing wheels on the wall wall, what's a wall wall? You get the chance to say, I don't know, let's ask a friend. of you know I asked a friend of mine from Puerto Rico and that's what she calls her school bus. It's funny, but it excites curiosity. Yeah, and I listened to that. I should have brought that up. Yeah, it's just delightful.
00:15:15
Speaker
yeah You know, what we want to do is take children's natural curiosity and turn it into the good thing that it is. Because when it gets turned the other way, oh, you're different. You're wearing a yellow shirt. I don't like yellow shirts. Oh, you have an accent. Oh, your name is funny. those These things are kind of prompted upon us. But I think that children naturally have the opposite response. What's your name?
00:15:41
Speaker
That's so cool. How do you say that? You know, like that wonderful book, Your Name is a Song. I don't know if you saw that about a little girl that goes to school and her teacher can't say her name. ah And after a few kind of really, yeah I'm going to call you Alice or, you know, kind of moments, she comes home crying and doesn't want to go back to school. And her mother explains what her name is, how she got it.
00:16:05
Speaker
what it means and and she sings it for her. So she goes back to school and ends up but you know, singing it. And at first it's kind of like, why are why are you teaching me, the the teachers, why are you teaching me this? But after a bit, the the boy in the back goes, can my name be a song? but Wait, wait, wait, can my name be a song? I want my name to be a song. And after the in during the year, all the children discovered that their name has a history, a place, and it can become its own rhythm and song.
00:16:37
Speaker
And these are the kind of ideas, they take that natural curiosity and turn it into something magical. Because that'll serve us the rest of our life, you know, rather than pointing out things that are different and becoming mad at them, or feeling like this group has it right. Who are those people, you know, teach just feed off of that beautiful sense of inclusion that's so natural in our kids, the open eyes, the open heart,
00:17:04
Speaker
Now, I have a question. Did you study childhood development? Did you ever like go to school for that or have you just read about that or did you learn all this stuff in practice from the
Daria's Background in Ethnomusicology
00:17:14
Speaker
children? I would say I have a degree in ethnomusicology. So for me, my interest was always in the linguistics, the the indigenous languages and the music. And I went through kind of a lot of hard knocks there because at that point the school um compared everything to Western music and you just can't compare indigenous music to Western music. They wanted it written down, which made no sense in Quechua, which is not even a written language. you know it it I really went through a lot of stuff and I guess I just kind of learned some um some ways of approaching things on the fly.
00:17:52
Speaker
And then, you know, as I've started to do it over the years, I i just trial and error. I mean, but loving, but ah there's something about loving kids and and loving, especially kids that are special needs, how to find that rapport, how to just be together. And that's, you know, it all really starts with that for me. You know, I think it's it's wonderful to get the degree, but um I didn't have that opportunity. I had more of the opportunity to travel.
00:18:22
Speaker
So i I took that and I'm hopefully have just continued to adapt and, you know, take criticism and get better and do this and do that and and keep going. Yeah, I also didn't get a degree. that Mine's all through practice and also interviewing people and talking to people and and just like just seeing how other people who are really good with kids interact with children. no And a lot of us just, yeah, through practice, through to talking to kids. Once you're around kids for a while, you kind of know how they're going to respond to things.
00:18:52
Speaker
And you see what works and you see what doesn't work. you know you may I may have this beautiful ballad that's so meaningful, but if the kids are are are jumpy, it's just not going to work. I've got to go to something where they're going to that where you're going to be right there with them. Exactly. I want to find more ways to be useful. you know to make to to open this wide world, you know, through my door, which is music, knowing others are working through different doors, but that we're all kind of going to the same place, to this big, wonderful, better structure of world, yeah little by little, step by step.
00:19:32
Speaker
Exactly. I guess ah another question I have is, can you talk a little bit about your travels and when you perform around the world for different people? Because I saw the map on your website. When you travel to different countries, what is that like? and how do you um well exactly like How did you get into traveling around to perform for people and children? and What has that been like for you? and What do you try to achieve when you're doing that?
00:20:00
Speaker
Well, um I usually go where I'm not doing that now because I'm caregiver for my husband and we're just kind of we've decided to just settle in where we are. You know, I was asked to play in one of my dream locations, which is the capital of of Siberia in Novosibirsk.
00:20:17
Speaker
and I just like I couldn't do it. ah The last one I did was Iceland and I love that there's a library there with a super active group of women that are multicultural and Iceland's kind of mono culture but you would not believe the number of women that go there and how um amazingly empowered women are there so they do this very active program at the main library of Reykjavik And they invited me one day for a workshop to talk about instruments and the next day for just like a concert sing-along. Wow. it well Oh, it's just you meet the most, um i you meet, I met people who had emigrated from the Middle East, from Africa, from all over and to really just be able to be in that kind of a wonderful place with people who who valued diversity. It was
00:21:09
Speaker
Pretty amazing. That's amazing. And do you perform for adults or children? There were mainly adults, but they brought there were a lot of family ah you know women that brought their children or grandchildren. Oh, that's good. you know it kind of yeah My repertoire kind of fits all ages.
00:21:27
Speaker
um and so that just kind of works out. you know it's It's things that are um kind of suited for for all. I love when the grandparent in the room says, I love that song. I remember that. And my grandkid does too. Yeah. yeah To finding that sweet spot that everyone finds entertaining and and happy and brings back memories and then builds new memories for our little ones. So I remember singing that. And I remember grandma you tapping my my feet to that song.
00:21:59
Speaker
It's neat. And one year I did have a really wonderful, um I had a mentor named Artith Rodale. ah She started Rodale Inc. and she allowed my band from South America to travel to my cousin's um Pueblo, the Jemez Pueblo.
Cultural Exchange and Prejudice Experiences
00:22:15
Speaker
It's the Toa speaking Pueblo in and New Mexico. ah And she allowed us to take our music in Spanish and Quechua and take it onto the reservation.
00:22:25
Speaker
Wow. and It was just such a cool and at the end, one of the things we did is um my cousin who was an Eagle dancer. He picked one of our songs and they videotaped the Eagle dance with with our with us playing behind him. Wow. That just felt like that you know the the connection yeah when they say the Eagle and the Condor will fly together, meaning we will we'll be able to be together respecting each other, building each other up.
00:22:54
Speaker
So, I mean, God bless Arteth Rodeo for we' stepping up and sponsoring and, you know, saying this is important. Here you go. You know, so a lot of times I'll get invited by someone and then I have to go knocking on doors for a grant or or whatever. But it really, honestly, it's Sadly, it's part of the work. you know we Again, we live in a country that's more commercial. So unless you're on that upper echelon where money is coming in, you have to knock on doors and you have to write grants and you have to do all this not particularly fun stuff in order to get to the cherry on top of the cake.
00:23:31
Speaker
on top of the know ah solemn aleum That's a song you wrote in 2015. Oh, I wrote that actually after the 2006 war because the women were sharing how much they were insulted. And I just, you know, it just came home when people were saying, you know, repeating the rude things said to them by strangers in the street because they were Arabic or Muslim or wearing hijab.
00:23:59
Speaker
no one No one should, you know, but's just let people be. We're all different. some of some of it's Some of it you can see, some of it you can't. So let's let every, you know, let every flower bloom. Yeah. Well, let's go ahead and listen to Azzam Alekhum by Daria.
Podcast Production and Contacts
00:29:05
Speaker
This podcast is produced, mixed, and mastered by me, Camille Harris from the Silly Jazz Band. We're under at the Silly Jazz Band on Instagram. And if you want to send us an email, our email is sillyjazzband at gmail dot.com. Have a great day. Bye.