Transcript
Speaker: Hello, welcome to the Script Mistress podcast, where we dive into the world of screenwriting.
Speaker: I'm your host, Amber Bosworth.
Speaker: In this episode, I sat down with the winner of our first ever short feature challenge in November, Shirley Nichol.
Speaker: Now,
Speaker: To keep yourself informed about podcasts, events, and challenges, please join my mailing list at thescriptmistress.com.
Speaker: Sign up there.
Speaker: Additionally, you can find this entire episode on video at thescriptmistress.com forward slash scene 53, where you'll also find a delightful download to help you along your screenwriting journey.
Speaker: I did start a YouTube channel a while ago, so if you're watching on that, I have the link in the show notes if you're listening to the podcast and would like to watch the video, but you don't have to.
Speaker: Well, we launched, or I launched, the first short feature challenge in November.
Speaker: Over 20 writers were challenged to write a complete feature within 30 to 60 pages, right?
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: They had 30 days to complete a full feature with a beginning, middle and end.
Speaker: This challenge also came with a prompt.
Speaker: Actually, in this, we set the challenge on three different prompts from three different areas.
Speaker: And it was, they had to be used in their script, all three prompts.
Speaker: Her script, titled Untethered, is about a troubled middle schooler who travels through a wormhole into a fantastical world where she will discover the true meaning of family.
Speaker: Shirley expertly blended fantasy with reality and created a script that will be incredible on the screen.
Speaker: Now, please, it's so such a good script.
Speaker: You can read the whole thing at the scriptmistress.com forward slash ink winners.
Speaker: I have her and the other two finalists there where you can download their scripts and read them if you would like.
Speaker: I really loved this script.
Speaker: It was so amazing.
Speaker: And when they submit the scripts, I don't know who it is.
Speaker: They submit them anonymously.
Speaker: And then I go back and then I look later after the winner has already been chosen and
Speaker: And I know Shirley will talk about it, but she has been wanting to write this for a very long time.
Speaker: And this provided her with the opportunity to do that.
Speaker: So let's hear her talk all about it.
Speaker: Enjoy.
Speaker: All right, everyone, I am here with Shirley Nichol, who won our first ever short feature screenplay challenge where you guys had to go from, what, five pages to up to 60 pages.
Speaker: It was so incredible to read everybody's script.
Speaker: So let's just get right in there.
Speaker: Shirley, I know you're not a stranger to this interview.
Speaker: So tell us a little bit about the script.
Speaker: Okay, well, I've never written a fantasy before, but I attempted to once.
Speaker: I tried to write this script one time.
Speaker: many, many, many years ago in a narrative form, and it just didn't work.
Speaker: But when I saw the images, the three images that you posted, I thought, oh, that would fit perfectly in with this fantasy that I've always wanted to write.
Speaker: So, yeah, so it's about a young girl who, you know, her life is fractured, and she falls in a hole, and she ends up in another world, and
Speaker: kind of based on like a Wizard of Oz or the Narnia series that I loved as a kid.
Speaker: So anyhow, I've always loved, you know, using my imagination and it was a way to express myself.
Speaker: So it was fun.
Speaker: It was fun to write.
Speaker: Yes, yes.
Speaker: No, I loved it.
Speaker: And I mean, I know we you had talked a little bit about being doing a fantasy.
Speaker: So, you know, me reading it, I'm like, OK, so I could kind of tell whose it was.
Speaker: But, you know, that never that never really sways me either way.
Speaker: But did you when you were writing this, did you envision it as like an animation or somewhat animation or did you see it as full real?
Speaker: Well, I wrote it.
Speaker: I saw it as full reel, but I'm realistic and I know that in order to make a movie like that, it would cost a gazillion dollars.
Speaker: That's why I was actually surprised that I was picked.
Speaker: I was like, oh, no, she'll never pick up fantasy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah, it was...
Speaker: Yeah, I could see it.
Speaker: I could see it animated for sure.
Speaker: Yeah, it could definitely be animated.
Speaker: And yeah, that's like, I don't have a little thing on there that says budget.
Speaker: Thank God.
Speaker: Like, I mean, for these, it's like, I think, you know, if we did a budget, or if it's like, you know, keeping it under a certain budget, I think that would just pigeonhole people too much.
Speaker: And I'm like, if you ever did work with a producer, you could work on that with them instead of a challenge where you're using this to help your creativity and to make it better as a writer, not so much worrying about like how much it's going to cost.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So this is now your second win with Ink to Screen.
Speaker: Yay!
Speaker: So like through this, I know, like, has your process changed at all with writing for Ink to Screen?
Speaker: I know it was a little bit of a longer time than just five days, but.
Speaker: Yeah, and I think with this challenge, this challenge was so much fun for me because I think you know I've been frustrated in the past with five pages because it's very hard to develop character and plot and wrap it all up in five pages.
Speaker: But it really has taught me, it's tremendous exercise to do because it's taught me how to write lean.
Speaker: And I'm a retired interior decorator, so I love writing description.
Speaker: I could go on and on and on.
Speaker: And it's like, oh my gosh, one page is already and I got to go cut things off.
Speaker: And that's usually what I cut is the description.
Speaker: And it forces you to pick one or two words that describe something rather than a whole paragraph.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that's, that was, but it was so much fun to write the 60 pages because I was like, uh, I was trying to write really lean and then it was, oh, I don't have to, I can, you know, take my time and stretch the scene out a bit more and develop, put another character in.
Speaker: And that was so much fun.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I just want to tell.
Speaker: Oh yeah, I, there will be another one.
Speaker: I promise.
Speaker: Cause that was, I have a lot, a lot of people really liked it.
Speaker: So yeah, I forgot what I was going to say.
Speaker: So I really liked all of your characters, even though you had the 60 pages, all of your characters, I think this was something, all of your characters had a purpose.
Speaker: They weren't just in there just to be there.
Speaker: They actually had a purpose and they moved the plot along.
Speaker: That was really great.
Speaker: So that's one thing that, especially in a five-page script, where people have, I'm like, why is that person in there in five pages?
Speaker: You can do so much more with it.
Speaker: So we kind of touched a little bit on that, how it was different writing from a five-page to a 60-page script.
Speaker: And we had some people that even had a little, that could barely make the 30 pages.
Speaker: I had a couple of people that wrote that were still kind of in the 20 pages, but I mean, they still got feedback, but you and a couple others got right up to that 60.
Speaker: And I'm like, yeah.
Speaker: I couldn't believe I ended right at 60.
Speaker: That was kind of, you know what I would love to do?
Speaker: I would love to expand it.
Speaker: I would love to take this and just, there's so much more I would love to do with this.
Speaker: And yeah, and it's forcing me to, you know, to do that because otherwise if it were, if it weren't for you, I would never have done this.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Well, do you feel like because I know you had talked about before like wanting the challenge to write a little bit of a longer did this kind of give you more confidence in your ability to write a longer script.
Speaker: Well, definitely.
Speaker: And Wing is like, wow, that's, that's very nice.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I actually, I went back and looked at some of my other old writing and there is another script that I would love to write.
Speaker: And I wrote an outline for it and never wrote it.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's spurring me on to do this again, for sure.
Speaker: Good, good.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: I love hearing that.
Speaker: So what was your biggest challenge while writing this screenplay?
Speaker: There were quite a few.
Speaker: Well, first of all, the ending, I didn't know how it was going to end.
Speaker: I kind of thought she would go back to her world.
Speaker: I knew that right from the very beginning, that that's what was going to happen.
Speaker: And as I was writing it, it just came to me at the very end, the last few days, that Declan goes back with her and then the, I think his name's Cyrus, the bad guy.
Speaker: And then I thought, well, that's kind of cool because they go back and maybe there could be like a sequel because now, you know,
Speaker: there could be other things that happen with them going back and you know maybe she could go back to that world go in that fantasy world yeah so how so you the ending was the trouble so did you just kind of outline it or I outlined it to that she would go back but then it wasn't until I started writing it as you know that can happen it's you know you get
Speaker: you're sitting in, it's like, wow, you know, it just kind of came to me.
Speaker: I think he's going to have to go back.
Speaker: And I couldn't figure out how that would work because there was just the one stone.
Speaker: And then the whole idea with the slingshot, with the slingshot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And my daughter, she always helps me with, she likes to edit.
Speaker: She's really good at editing.
Speaker: Oh, that's good.
Speaker: And her nickname growing up, my oldest son,
Speaker: named her Pookie.
Speaker: Her nickname was Pookie.
Speaker: That's where Pookie came from.
Speaker: She called me and she was like, Pookie, guys.
Speaker: She couldn't believe it.
Speaker: Then I thought that was a way to tie in that character to the ending and that the stone would split into three so that they could all go back.
Speaker: And yeah, I think another big thing that I am learning through you is present tense.
Speaker: And I thought that I had it because I know how to do it.
Speaker: And I think what I'm going to do now, this will be a tip for me especially, is before I submit it to go through the search and find and replace is the word is.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Because, you know, in the script, I had a couple places where I would write
Speaker: you know, Lila is running rather than Lila runs.
Speaker: That's a challenge for me for sure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, and you can, yeah, that's a lower is, or any ing words, like any, anytime, like any verb, when you put in an ing, it's like, Oh, could I make this more active?
Speaker: It's like, I know it, people like it.
Speaker: Like he, he talked to her while drinking, like,
Speaker: why not he you know he drinks and talks you know yeah that you know kind of stuff so yeah it just it makes it more active and and then because i you know i i do so much feedback i get it's in my head so it's like anytime it's not there i'm like it's like a it's like a stop it's like a speed bump yes it's like a speed bump and and you have to think about like like you know directors and producers and agents
Speaker: that read constant scripts all the time.
Speaker: They have the same, they have the same wiring in their head.
Speaker: So it's kind of like a little bit of a speed bump, like, and you don't, you know, that's an easy fix.
Speaker: That's an easy fix.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The other thing I had was character names.
Speaker: I kept going back and I can't tell you how many times I changed character names.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, I think I tried to write a science fiction romance novel when I was younger and I just I didn't make it past like three chapters because the names of like planets and and races.
Speaker: And I'm like, oh, my God, we didn't have AI, you know, 20 years ago.
Speaker: So I didn't have so names for me are really are really tough.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that's why I think I even told you in your feedback, like all the power to you with the names and you, you, you did a really good job of, because sometimes when you read fantasy, the names kind of blur together.
Speaker: If you don't have like a connection with them and with your script, that didn't happen.
Speaker: Like you, your characters are very singular and very distinct to where they didn't blur together.
Speaker: I was like, who's that again, where I had to go back up and kind of look.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: It might be easier in a fantasy to do that because there's such strange characters to begin with.
Speaker: Yes, exactly.
Speaker: And when you think about names, sometimes when you hear the name Shirley, it's like, oh, I knew a Shirley growing up.
Speaker: You know, you make associations in your head.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, but you hear the name Pook or, you know, other names like that.
Speaker: There's no real association.
Speaker: So it's harder for the brain to memorize or to recognize those.
Speaker: So it's, that's much more important to make the better characters as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Or there was there any of a favorite scene in your script that that?
Speaker: I you know what I what I really enjoyed writing was the cave scene.
Speaker: I had just been to California and and I love caves and I had just toured a cave.
Speaker: And so that came up.
Speaker: And so.
Speaker: the scaries for me, it was scary.
Speaker: The scene where she goes, she tries to run away and she goes into a chamber with the bats.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: Just like orange lights or something on the walls and then they come alive.
Speaker: So that was kind of fun to write.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And then you said like, as I was asking that, I could see this, the, the cave in my head too.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: are there any films or TV shows that influenced your themes or anything, or was there anything that kind of.
Speaker: No, but you know, I love, and of course I could never write anything like a game of Thrones or, you know, just that kind of a fantasy is just, that just blows me away.
Speaker: So I really didn't, you know, base it on that, but yeah,
Speaker: Like I said, it was more of a Wizard of Oz kind of, you know, she goes into this other world and she, you know, because I wanted to, and I think when I do go back, I do want to rewrite this.
Speaker: I will explore her.
Speaker: The other problem I had was that I know in a
Speaker: in a screenplay by page 10, you kind of want the point of no return.
Speaker: You know, it's kind of like something has to happen.
Speaker: And then, and so that had to be where she goes into this other world.
Speaker: So then to develop her character in 10 pages was even, you know, and I think I put, you know, way too much in there.
Speaker: I would, I would definitely cut some things and maybe expand them a bit more.
Speaker: I did when I first wrote it too, I had a scene in school, she's in the cafeteria and,
Speaker: you know, she's being, you know, girls are being mean to her.
Speaker: They're not including her.
Speaker: And I just thought, you know what, I'm just going to cut that because I think I got the message that she's not really fitting in and she's not really happy in school and she's not really happy at home.
Speaker: And so, yeah, I think that that too is very challenging.
Speaker: How do you, in the first, you know, opening scenes, develop that character where you want to
Speaker: feel for her.
Speaker: Like I wanted, you know, I would want readers to go, you know, oh, I hope something good happens to her.
Speaker: Well, that's, you also have to understand the motivations too, like maybe understanding the reason why she might not want to come back.
Speaker: That's a big thing where people with motivations, I read a lot, like even in the five pages, I'm like,
Speaker: the motivation is not there.
Speaker: Like, I don't understand why this person did such an extreme thing when that motivation wasn't there.
Speaker: So you did a, you know, and that's, that's a good job of making that.
Speaker: And that's like when five pages, you have to make it so extreme that it makes sense in five pages, where 60 pages, you get a little bit more leeway to kind of develop that.
Speaker: But I think you're right.
Speaker: I think you did a good job at describing her in how she didn't fit in her world and that having this other world's
Speaker: kind of show and contrast, I think was perfect.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Now, is there any particular genre that you have yet to try, but haven't yet that you want to?
Speaker: A little nervous about?
Speaker: You know what's so wonderful with the five pages?
Speaker: Is I've really tried a lot of different things.
Speaker: I've tried comedy.
Speaker: I tried a murder, you know, but I would really love to do a detective.
Speaker: I would love to write it.
Speaker: But in five pages, I don't think I could.
Speaker: Maybe I could try.
Speaker: I could try.
Speaker: But yeah, because that really, a detective story is, there's so many different characters that have to be developed and backstories and, you know, and that would be a real challenge.
Speaker: But I love watching detective stories.
Speaker: I love, because one of the reasons why I started to write too,
Speaker: I would watch these shows with my husband and I would tell him what's going to happen.
Speaker: I could figure out who was the killer or who, you know, and sometimes, you know, and even if it didn't work out the way I thought it would, I would think, well, gee, I could, I could write that and I can make it even better.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Of course it's my ego, right?
Speaker: Little did I know how difficult it is.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That would be fun to do.
Speaker: It's just, um,
Speaker: The motivation for me to sit down and write is, that's why I love doing your challenges, because it forces me.
Speaker: The 60 page, I was, every day I would be forced to sit down in the chair and go, okay, today I'm going to, even if I just do five, ten minutes, I had to do something.
Speaker: So when I don't have a challenge, I have other things I like to do.
Speaker: And that's where people sometimes ask me, like, why would I pay for that?
Speaker: Like, but that's where the motivation is.
Speaker: Like some people just need that extra motivation and, um,
Speaker: Yeah, that push and the incentive and the deadline.
Speaker: Because as writers, I mean, unless you have a publisher, you have an impending project, there's not really a deadline for anything.
Speaker: It's all on your own.
Speaker: You know, exactly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that was the biggest thing for it.
Speaker: And I'm like, well.
Speaker: With your challenges, there's always, you know, you may end up winning.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Get some money.
Speaker: Yes, so you can get some money.
Speaker: That's a nice motivation too.
Speaker: Yes, exactly.
Speaker: That's what I try.
Speaker: Were there any new tips that you would like to give out to beginning screenwriters?
Speaker: I think for me, and especially I think for the five page, is...
Speaker: I think put action or a crisis or something at the beginning.
Speaker: And I've had to learn that the hard way.
Speaker: But yeah, just kind of, you know, put your characters right in the middle of something going on.
Speaker: So that draws the attention to the reader.
Speaker: Otherwise, and I think what I used to do in the past was trying to develop a character and
Speaker: okay, they do this and now they're going here and that's boring.
Speaker: So I think that would be definitely one thing.
Speaker: And the is and ing, you know, getting those out.
Speaker: Yeah, it is.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Just the active, activeness.
Speaker: Because I mean, it is, but active.
Speaker: Yes, active voice.
Speaker: It's a hard thing to get.
Speaker: to get used to, especially if you're a prose writer, you write novels and you can write whatever you want.
Speaker: First person, present tense, third person.
Speaker: You know what they're thinking and you can't do that here.
Speaker: You cannot go.
Speaker: She thought she should.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You just can't, you know?
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So like, you know, shameless plug, but what is your favorite part about writing for ink, especially ink to screen, especially for the 60 page?
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: I do love getting the images.
Speaker: I can't wait, you know, because Wednesday is coming and I can't wait to get that image.
Speaker: And then usually I go, you know, I
Speaker: I take my dog for a walk most mornings.
Speaker: And that's usually when I do my best thinking, you know, so then, you know, so, and I love that.
Speaker: I love being creative and thinking, how am I going to work this scene or this image into, into, you know, a storyline.
Speaker: So yeah, that's one of my, my most favorite things.
Speaker: And I love getting your feedback, you know, that's, you know, you give excellent feedback and, and I've learned, I've learned a lot.
Speaker: Yes, I've been doing this for, I don't know, probably about a year and a half now.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Wow, you came right on board when I restarted.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, and I did it before too.
Speaker: So yeah, it's been great.
Speaker: It's been wonderful.
Speaker: Well, in the winnings from the short feature, you got another year.
Speaker: So I'm like, I'm going to have to go all the way into 2025.
Speaker: Who knows what I'll be writing, right?
Speaker: I'll be doing some sci-fi thing.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: It's one thing I've never really written.
Speaker: Yeah, that would be.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That would be cool.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for doing this interview again, Shirley.
Speaker: Well, thank you, Amber.
Speaker: It's been a pleasure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: How amazing was that?
Speaker: It was really hard for me not to kind of tear up a little bit or think about how she was able to really build on her confidence as a writer.
Speaker: And that is literally the entire reason I started Ink to Screen, the short screenwriting challenge, the five-page challenge, and now my short feature challenge.
Speaker: I'm so happy that Shirley was able to find that confidence and create a story that I hope we get to see on the screen because it's incredible.
Speaker: Now, Shirley, like I mentioned, has also won one of our monthly short screenwriting challenges.
Speaker: And you can read her short feature and the other two finalists and all of the past winners of our challenges if you want to see some really amazing scripts, read some really amazing scripts.
Speaker: Again, thescriptmistress.com forward slash ink winners.
Speaker: And stay tuned.
Speaker: We will have another chance at the short feature challenge again this year, I promise, coming up very soon.
Speaker: So just pay attention to that.
Speaker: The January short screenwriting challenge is finishing today.
Speaker: It is Sunday.
Speaker: They're finishing their writing today.
Speaker: But check out the fun for February.
Speaker: February is open for registration.
Speaker: You just can head over there and get ready and get registered to start writing in February.
Speaker: You never know what you'll learn about your own writing.
Speaker: Now, my writing action, again, I made a great download for beginning writers.
Speaker: Review the formatting basics guide I provided for free.
Speaker: You can download it on this page, on the page of the scriptmistress.com forward slash scene 53.
Speaker: Use this guide to go over any scripts you've already started.
Speaker: We all started from the beginning at some point.
Speaker: Feel free to share some of your thoughts or ask questions on the Facebook page at Ink to Screen on Facebook or email me at amber at the scriptmistress.com to get extra help.
Speaker: I really hope you go back and listen to my series that I've started.
Speaker: If you're a beginning screenwriter, the past two episodes, I talked about beginning...
Speaker: screenwriting and then formatting.
Speaker: And I've provided this guide to really help you out in the next episodes when I'm not interviewing winners.
Speaker: We'll really be going over that.
Speaker: I really hope that helps you out as a new writer.
Speaker: It's something I never had starting from scratch.
Speaker: And a lot of these writers that I interviewed really didn't have that either.
Speaker: So I really hope you enjoy that.
Speaker: So sign up for the February five-page short screenplay challenge at thescriptmistress.com forward slash ink to screen.
Speaker: Thank you so much for tuning into this episode.
Speaker: Thank you, Shirley.
Speaker: So glad I got to interview you again.
Speaker: You are a delight.
Speaker: I love reading your scripts.
Speaker: I can't read more.
Speaker: I can't wait to read more.
Speaker: And again, your guys' feedback means the world to me.
Speaker: So if you have any podcast ideas that could be helpful, feel free again to email me at amber at the scriptmistress.com.
Speaker: Remember to like and follow this page, show wherever you are watching or listening.
Speaker: And until that next time, happy writing.
Speaker: Thank you.
