with Simona Scarpaleggia



In the last episode of the season, I talk with Simona Scarpaleggia, an international business leader, author, board member and former global CEO.

It was under her leadership that IKEA Switzerland has achieved worldwide recognition for reaching gender equality, both overall and in management. In just 9 years, the company has increased the proportion of women in management positions from approximately 4% to 50%.

In this conversation with Simona, we delve into the topic of how to create sustainable change in the workplace, why she thinks part-time shouldn’t be a career killer, and whether the DEI policies she advocates for are harder to implement in smaller companies.

This episode is gold for both high-level insight and incredibly practical advice. Simona highlights specific areas of action, common setbacks you’re likely to encounter on your DEI journey, and how you as a leader can become a role model for your team.

Learning Points:

 * Diversity, equity and inclusion policies are key to creating change, but it won’t last if the policies only rely on certain individuals to make them work. They need to have systems built around them that are independent from leadership.
 * A workplace with general equity not only gives you better reputation as an employer, it can also be a competitive advantage because you become a representation of the diversity in the market, meaning you  can understand and serve your clients better.
 * The winners of tomorrow will be those who can effectively utilize the potential of a hybrid work environment. This requires challenging  deep-rooted assumptions about the role of leadership and what you think of as the key traits of a great employee.

Tips:

 * Use role models and success stories to show your employees they won’t get penalized for taking advantage of policies like paternity leave and part-time work.
 * Don’t use the same leadership style with all of your employees. Learn to distinguish between situations where clear direction is needed versus ones where your role is to inspire, then just let your team do their job.
 * When considering someone for a promotion, focus on the results of the person and what they bring to the table rather than their  availability to be physically present all the time.
   

Find Simona on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sscarpaleggia/

#28 Simona, why do you challenge the notion of Availability equaling Results?

with Gilles Crettenand

Note: The interview was recorded in French.



Research has proven without a doubt that having an engaged, nurturing father can provide huge benefits for children’s physical, social and psychological well-being. But the cultural frameworks and systemic support for men to be able to fully embrace this role is largely missing in Switzerland today.

Gilles Crettenand is the head of MenCare Suisse Romande, a national program promoting fathers’ involvement in everyday childcare and men’s participation in the care sector in general.

In previous episodes, we’ve talked about how men being more present with their families is key for gender equality inside and outside the workplace. (Listen to episode 16 [https://fishintheboardroom.ch/16-what-men-gain-from-a-parental-leave-with-dario-cristiano/] with Dario Christiano and episode 25 [https://fishintheboardroom.ch/25-reto-why-are-fathers-key-for-a-family-friendly-company-culture/] with Reto Kessler in particular.)

Today’s discussion with Gilles goes deeper into the often invisible struggles men can face on their journey to becoming the fathers and partners they want to be.

We talk about the ways the system fails men from an early age and the consequences this has for all of us. Gilles also shares his experiences of leading transformative workshops on fatherhood, and offers a thoughtful perspective on how we can support men in becoming more aware caregivers of themselves and their families.

What you will learn:

 * When men are socialized not to express their feelings or be vulnerable, it becomes difficult to connect on a deeper level with themselves and others, including their partners and children. Education plays a major role in reproducing this pattern, and increasing one’s capacity for empathy is key to changing it.
 * The hospital environment and the attitude of birth professionals can play a major role in reinforcing (or undermining) the legitimacy of men as capable caregivers. When fathers are involved from the start, the whole family is strengthened.
 * Although their issues can be different from those of women, men also suffer under a patriarchal system. At the same time, self-aware, actively engaged fathers can become role models for social change that benefits everyone.

Tips:

 * Create dedicated spaces where new and experienced fathers can safely talk about their experiences, questions and concerns.
 * Start training programs for developing soft skills like empathy and non-violent communication. Make sure male employees can see the benefit of participating.
 * Get involved with initiatives that help couples consciously plan and prepare for parenthood. Make this support available to employees who would benefit from it.
   

Find Gilles on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gilles-crettenand-7331691b/

#27 Gilles, what does a committed father need? - Interview with Gilles Crettenand from Swiss national MenCare programme

with Anne Joffre Bonnaillie

Ads that portray women in a professional setting receive significantly less funding than those that portray them in traditional gender roles, found a 2022 research by CreativeX. Data like this show that while the portrayal of women on screen has changed over the last decades, the media and advertising industry still has a long way to go in terms of diversity and representation.

A company that makes a stand for a more equal and inclusive world in advertising is Procter & Gamble, home to brands like Always, Gillette and Pampers. Their two main goals in this field are 100% accurate representation of women on screen, and hiring 50% female directors behind the camera. After five years, they are at more than 80% with the former and 47% with the latter.

And as today’s guest, Anne Joffre will tell you, these results not only create a positive impact for society, they’re also a driver of business growth for P&G.

Anne is Senior Director, Brand Building Integrated Communications at P&G. She is passionate about diversity and inclusion both on a personal and a professional level, and shares openly about these two sides throughout the episode.

You will hear about what the key factors of success were for the company, how Anne developed the case for change internally, and the sound advice she has for organizations who want to combine being a force for good with the business perspective.

This episode was recorded at a Role Model Series event that Fish in the Boardroom organized in cooperation with INSEAD Women in Business Alumni Club. Questions were asked by Kathrin Niederlaender.

“There was also a research company called ADX who had the most prestigious research award that had demonstrated the correlation between gender equality in advertising and business building potential, like a plus 25% for ads that are portraying women in a progressive and positive manner.”

What you will learn:

 * A DE&I initiative will see results faster if top management embeds it into their strategy and prioritizes actively supporting it.
 * If you want people in the organization to embrace the change you are trying to make, you have to help them to see DE&I not only as a force for good, but as a must-have to expand your reach and capture new markets.
 * When you are first starting out with a DE&I initiative, employees will need information and tools to help them adapt to the new perspective. While this internal capability is being built, big change can come from making inclusive representation mandatory.

Tips:

 * Prepare a compelling business case for top management that shows the potential for growth in making DE&I a priority. Getting long-term commitment is easier when you have a few wins you can point to early on, so focus on getting those first.
 * Set a clear expectation of inviting females into the areas of the business where they are traditionally underrepresented. This will let people know they need to plan ahead for finding the right talent.
 * Be clear about your objectives and how you will track them from the start. Communicate that as part of the success drivers of the project and give regular feedback on progress.
   

Find Anne online:
LinkedIn: Anne Joffre Bonnaillie [https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-joffre-bonnaillie-1a72b05/]



#26 Anne, is ensuring diversity in ads, the key to a double bottom line? - Interview with Anne Joffre from Procter & Gamble

with Reto Kessler of Väternetzwerk Schweiz

In a 2019 study by UNICEF, Switzerland ranked last in terms of family-friendly policies among 41 high- and medium-income countries. Balancing family life and work is considered a private matter, and the few existing structures of support are still aimed mainly at mothers. The challenges of working fathers are often overlooked, yet without their higher participation in care and domestic work, nothing can truly change for women either.

Actively addressing these issues comes with great benefits for organizations. Research has shown that the positive effects of initiatives like job-sharing, part-time work or on-site childcare outweigh the cost of implementing them even in the short-term.

In today’s episode, I’m talking with Reto Kessler, head of Väternetzwerk Schweiz, a program that supports fathers and companies in finding effective solutions for reconciling work and parenthood.

This is a truly inspiring conversation full of thought-provoking insights for parents and companies alike. Reto makes a strong case for why parenthood is an organizational matter, shares how it relates to equality in the workplace, and gives lots of actionable tips for building a family-friendly culture in your organization.

What you will learn

 * Unbalanced distribution of paid and unpaid work between mothers and fathers contributes to issues like the gender pay gap. Diversity and equality at work require creating organizational structures that support options outside of traditional gender roles for parenting.
 * Parenthood puts an extra load on employees’ mental and physical health. By fostering a culture that enables parents to perform well without burnout, organizations can benefit from higher levels of employee motivation and commitment in the long run.
 * When your company is family-friendly not only on paper but in practice as well, that can become one of your greatest assets in employer branding.

Tips

 * Create internal parent networks where parents can meet, learn from and support each other.
 * Before creating initiatives for parents within the company, ask them what they actually need. Let them be directly involved in the process and be open for proposals.
 * Offer a few different benefit options parents can choose from. Experiment with solutions like job sharing, top sharing and leading in part-time.

Find Reto  online

Homepage: vaeternetzwerk.ch [http://vaeternetzwerk.ch/]
Linkedin: Reto Kessler [https://www.linkedin.com/in/reto-kessler-%F0%9F%94%A5-462a495b/]

#25 Reto, why are fathers key for a family-friendly company culture? - Interview with Reto Kessler of Väternetzwerk Schweiz

with Gerhard Andrey

As an answer to rapidly changing business environments and employee expectations in the last two decades, new models of organizational structures have been emerging. One of these models is Holacracy, a decentralized approach to governing and operating organizations that is celebrated by its advocates for its agility, effectiveness, and ability to adapt.

According to HolacracyOne, a company helping organizations implement this structure, Switzerland is one of the countries with the highest number of organizations using Holacracy. While interest in the model continues to grow, discussions have also started around its limitations and relation to concepts like authority, culture, and diversity.

My guest today is Gerhard Andrey, co-founder of the digital agency Liip, one of the earliest adopters of Holacracy in Switzerland.

In our conversation we go deep into why their decision to shift from a hierarchical structure was made, what challenges they faced both on a personal level and as a company during the process, and what organizations should expect if they wish to start on a similar path.

Gerhard also shares how practicing Holacracy at Liip has created more equal opportunities for women, and how this structure can become a vehicle for diversity and personal flourishing at work.

What you will learn

 * Traditional hierarchies in organizations weren’t created for the world we live in today. Even if you don’t adapt all aspects of Holacracy, assessing where structural change is necessary can help your organization stay relevant.
 * The strict structures of Holacracy make it more difficult for personal relationships and biases to affect the decision-making process. This can lead to safer spaces for people with different identities.
 * Holacracy can support diversity, but it can’t create it on its own. You still need the right mindset and organizational culture if you want to foster DE&I.

Tips

 * Holacracy is not a quick fix for all your organizational problems. Examine your reasons for wanting to adapt it and make sure the top management is ready for the change of power dynamics.
 * When hiring new talent, don’t just look at how someone fits a narrowly defined role. Take the whole human into account and consider all the ways they could contribute to the organization.
 * Instead of changing the structure of the whole company all at once, start with one team or one set of approaches, then evolve from there.

Resources

 * Open Source und eigentlich alles, was es braucht wenn man das ohne Hilfe anwenden will : https://www.holacracy.org/constitution/5
 * Liip Blogpost: The 5 Most Common Questions I Hear About Self-Organization : https://www.liip.ch/de/blog/5-common-questions-hear-self-organization
 * Liip culture : https://www.liip.ch/en/culture

Find Gerhard online

Twitter [https://twitter.com/anderageru] : https://twitter.com/anderageru
LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerhard-andrey-aa57a820/] : https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerhard-andrey-aa57a820/

#24 Holacracy - the universal answer to the challenges of tomorrow´s working world - hype or myth?! - with Gerhard Andrey

Aptar is a global leader in designing and manufacturing consumer dispensing and drug delivery solutions, with 13 000 employees in 20 countries. In 2021, only four years after the launch of their diversity, equity and inclusion initiative, Forbes named Aptar one of the top 10 female-friendly companies in the world.

How did Aptar set up such a successful DE&I initiative in such a short time, especially in an industry where women are generally underrepresented? What were the key factors that helped the program take root and become an integral part of the company’s core values?

In this episode, Amira Ghozali and Bas van Buijtenen talk about how they first launched the Aptar DE&I initiative at a single division with minimal resources. They share their personal experiences and most important learnings from the process, and give advice to people who also want to start on a journey of transforming their workplace.

This episode was recorded at a Role Model Series event that Fish in the Boardroom organized in cooperation with INSEAD Women in Business Alumni Club.


What you will learn

 * Building a community of ambassadors from different parts of the organization can help the message spread faster.
 * You don’t need to have everything figured out from the start. It’s more important to set your vision, start small, and keep learning as you go.
 * A survey can be a great starting tool from which a DE&I strategy can emerge.
 * Men tend to underestimate the challenges women face in the workplace. It is a different experience to work in a company whether you are a man or a woman.
   

Tips

 * Make sure that everyone in the organization clearly understands the objective and the intention behind the initiative. Adapt your messages and communication channels to the target group.
 * Include the topic of DE&I in the agenda of meetings whenever you can to demonstrate your commitment to it and keep it at the forefront of people’s minds.
 * Research benchmarks and best practices from different industries. Leverage existing solutions, but always adjust them to the needs of your own company.
   

Resources

Aptar DE&I
https://www.aptar.com/careers/diversity-equity-inclusion/

Aptar Named a Global Top 10 Female-Friendly Company by Forbes
https://www.aptar.com/news-events/aptar-named-a-global-top-10-female-friendly-company-by-forbes/

Aptar Press Release 07.04.2021 Launch Align, Female Employee Resource Group
https://www.aptar.com/news-events/aptar-announces-the-launch-of-its-first-employee-resource-group-align/


Find Amira & Bas on LinkedIn

Amira Ghozali: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amiraghozali/
Bas van Buijtenen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/basvanbuijtenen/

#23 How do you start a DE&I initiative with no resources? - with Amira Ghozali & Bas van Buijtenen from Aptar Pharma Group

With Marilen Schwald & Stefanie Fehr

There is a long line of research showing that women face greater barriers than men when it comes to finding professional opportunities through networking. We also know that women need different approaches than those long-established by men to successfully build and utilize their networks.

womenmatter/s is a career guidance program that helps ambitious women in the beginning stages of their careers navigate these challenges. Stefanie Fehr and Marilen Schwald founded womenmatter/s so that others can benefit from their knowledge and experience in what it means to stay true to yourself as a woman while advancing your career.

In today’s episode, Stef and Mary shed light on why we might find it hard to engage in networking, and how this relates to inequality in the workplace. The insights they provide help to understand the role of all-female networks in the career development of women, and how companies can proactively utilize them to support their employees.

They also talk about how diverse professional relationships helped them in their own careers, and share practical and broadly applicable tools for strategic networking.


What you will learn

 * Networking is a skill that you can develop. Being strategic about your efforts is key whether you are an extrovert or an introvert.
 * The four aspects of a successful network and why they are important.
 * Building and maintaining a network that can help you achieve your goals requires knowing the value you bring to the table.


Tips

 * Build female network groups inside and outside of your company.
 * Build your own personal boardroom where you include people to whom you can attribute different roles (e.g. information, power, mentor).
 * Set regular reminders to keep in touch with your network. Combine talking to your contacts with activities you are already doing to maximize your impact.



Resources:
Research: Men and Women Need Different Kinds of Networks to Succeed:
https://hbr.org/2019/02/research-men-and-women-need-different-kinds-of-networks-to-succeed

Step by step guide to strategic networking:
https://www.womenmatters.ch/blog/willst-du-wissen-wie-du-am-besten-auf-leute-zugehst-und-netzwerkst

Icebreaker questions : https://www.womenmatters.ch/blog/lade-dir-jetzt-die-aufwaermfragen-herunter

Networking opportunity:
Join the womenmatter/s Circle: https://www.womenmatters.ch/warteliste-circle

Books on strategic networking:
Adam Grant :Give and Take: Why Helping Others Drives Our Success [https://www.amazon.de/Give-Take-Helping-Others-Success/dp/1780224729/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=2T7CABTCOZS0D&keywords=Give+and+Take+Adam+Grant&qid=1664548916&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjU2IiwicXNhIjoiMS4yNSIsInFzcCI6IjEuNDQifQ==&sprefix=give+and+take+adam+ga,aps,185&sr=8-1]
Zella King & Amanda Scott: Who is in your personal boardroom?


Find Stef & Mary online

Website: www.womenmatters.ch [http://www.womenmatters.ch/]
IG: womenmatters_network
LI: womenmatters
LI: Stefanie Céline Fehr
LI: Marilen Alison Schwald

#22 Strategic Networking - Are you still talking - or are you networking already?! - with Marilen Schwald & Stefanie Fehr of womenmatter/s

With Prof. Dr. Gudrun Sander

Note: this interview is held in German

Companies want to hire the best talent for their company and particularly for their specialist and managerial roles. Yet, the long-term demand for skilled workers in Switzerland and globally is rapidly increasing and the shortage of such talent is becoming more and more evident. Consequently, the hiring, development and retention of employees is becoming a key strategic matter for companies, and DE&I plays an important role in that.

Yet, how do you define who is the best candidate for your company? When is diversity beneficial and when not? What should you be mindful of, when working with diversity? In my discussion with Gudrun Sander, from the University of St. Gallen (HSG), we rely on her 30 year research on DE&I, and offer initial approaches to these issues.

Furthermore, to promote good practices around DE&I, Gudrun hosts every year in September the Diversity week at the University of St Gallen and online. It includes interesting sessions with researchers as well as business leaders and presents the latest Gender Diversity Report that it publishes together with Advance. You can find more about the report also in my interview with the Advance General Manager Alkistis Petropaki - https://fishintheboardroom.ch/6



What you will learn

 * There is no such thing as 100% optimal diversity.
   What matters is how much diversity a manager can lead and in which industry the company is operating and in which development phase the company is currently in.
 * Storytelling can help to ensure that the WHY for DE&I is clear and understood by all,
   so that measures can be implemented consistently and actually have an effect.
 * Every company should define what they mean under "the best employees".
   This should be followed by a review of whether the criteria by which the company recruits and promotes managers are in alignment with this definition.

Tips

 * Instead of making assumptions ABOUT employees, managers should talk WITH their employees - what do they really want and need?
 * In dialogue and exchange, individual solutions - away from standardized process - can be found, which are most useful for both sides - people and company.
 * Have these discussions regularly with your employees throughout the year, not just once a year for your annual review, things can evolve fast and support is needed throughout

Ressources

Competence Centre for Diversity and Inclusion at the HSG [//www.ccdi-unisg.ch] 
Understand where your company stands in DE&I by participating in the St Gallen Diversity Benchmarking [//www.diversitybenchmarking.ch] 
Perform a salary analysis and get certified [//www.we-pay-fair.ch] 
Gender Intelligence Report [//www.advance-hsg-report.ch] 
St Gallen Diversity & Inclusion Week [//www.inclusion-tagung.ch] 


Find Gudrun online

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gudrun-sander
https://www.linkedin.com/company/competence-center-for-diversity-inclusion/


Biography
Gudrun Sander s a Professor for Business Administration with a special emphasis on Diversity Management and a senior lecturer at the University of St. Gallen, Switzerland.


#21 Frau Sander, ist Diversity IMMER gut?  - mit Prof. Dr. Gudrun Sander

With Suat Demokan



Bühler is a Swiss multinational plant and equipment manufacturer, known for plant, equipment, and related services for processing foods and manufacturing advanced materials. It´s a quite pragmatic and operational-driven field with a predominantly male workforce and only 17% share of female employees. What is remarkable, however, is that Bühler`s management includes 14% women – with an increasing tendency.

Even if a diverse community was not a big priority or even an issue in the beginning, this aspect has now been given a strong weight in Bühler's company mission and corporate values.

Today I´m talking to Suat Demokan, Global HR Business Partner – Manufacturing, Logistics & Supply Chain about Bühler’s way to more Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and but also and mainly about his very personal experience with the topic.

Corinne Schneider, D&I Ambassador and former Global D&I Lead also attended the interview and will tell us a bit about Bühler’s specific programs in this field.

What you will learn

 * DE&I is also an investment of trust[AU3] . Until you can measure the effects on KPIs it can take years
 * Creating a diverse and inclusive company culture means continuous work where you constantly must refresh, adapt to new learnings and development!
 * Honest DE&I work means offering strategies on how to deal with insecurity, and tools for a healthy conflict communication. It´s about supporting and accompanying the process of transition from where we are as a company / society to where we want to be.

Tips

 * Awareness and consciousness is not enough.
   Try to actively challenge the things you think need to change.
 * Think about a personal situation where you directly or indirectly have been affected by bias. Then use that emotion to feel what DE&I really means and convert it into productive energy to advocate for the topic!

Find Suat online

Suat on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/suat-demokan-797a691/] 

Biography

Suat Demokan has started his professional career in consultancy for Software Solution with EY before having become self-employed for 6 years serving customers cross industries on solution for financial consolidation. After having joined Sulzer for a global project in 2004 Suat has decided to change functional direction and started an HR career in 2007 with serving in almost all roles from the basic factory HR manager up to a Global HR Executive. After more than a decade in Sulzer he was seeking for a new challenge and has joined Bühler as Global HR Business Partner for Manufacturing and Supply Chain. In addition to this role Suat has taken on responsibility as HR Business Partner Europe as of 2019.

Suat is a dual citizen (Swiss/Turkish), is married since 26 years and has two grown up children. In his rare spare time he enjoys playing football, golf and hiking with the family and dog.



This Episode is supported by Advance, Gender Equality in Business of which Bühler is a member.

#20 What it means to actively drive the DE&I change - with Suat Demokan

Fleeing your home country, leaving everything behind, family, friends, careers and posessions is a traumatic event. Add to that the integration into a new and foreign country, and one can only imagine the toll such events can have on a refugee’s self-confidence.[AU1]

Today I´m having a very passionate and incredibly inspiring talk with Lucy Antrobus, Entrepreneur, Speaker and „Confidence Catalyst“ as she titles herself.

Lucy works with these refugees to help them find the confidence to better integrate into their new lives in Switzerland, learn the local language, make friends, find work, and become leaders in their community. To achieve this through her program „Refugee Voices“, Lucy believes that it´s essential to access your own resources and uses methods of storytelling to unleash participant’s potential.

And what migrants have to face to the extreme, we can also apply to broader stretches of the population, whenever it comes to daring greatly. As such what migrants teach us about courage, can also be applied to business and Lucy’s methods are one option to reach that.

In this episode Lucy shares insides into her exciting work, and how her own award-winning methodology helps catalyze diversity and inclusion.

What you will learn

 * The importance of regaining a connection to your powerful self to leverage your creativity, resilience and sustainable success
 * How storytelling can be an effective tool to overcome a difficult personal story and unfold an empowering effect on one´s professional life (and even on society at large)
 * The concept of “risk-vulnerability-scaling” and how it can trigger growth mindset

Find Lucy online

Lucy Antrobus on LInkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucyantrobus/

Additional Resources

Refugee Voices

Website: www.refugeeleaders.org [http://www.refugeeleaders.org/]

Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/refugee_voices/]: @refugee_voices

Facebook [http://www.facebook.com/refugeevoices.ch]: @refugeevoices.ch [http://refugeevoices.ch/]

LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/refugeevoices]: @refugeevoices



Aequaland

Website: https://www.aequaland.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aequaland/

Facebook: https://web.facebook.com/aequaland

Twitter: https://twitter.com/aequaland

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/equa-land

Biography

Lucy Antrobus is a confidence catalyst, inclusion warrior, and entrepreneur. She is the Founder of Refugee Voices [http://www.refugeeleaders.org/], an NGO that rebuilds confidence in marginalized communities, and co-founder and Chief Operations Officer of Aequaland [http://www.aequaland.com/], building an educational metaverse that uses games to educate kids on sustainable development and 21st century skills. She is a global citizen and is based between London and Lausanne, having led strategy deployment and community empowerment programs across Europe, Africa, Asia and the Americas.

#19 Find your voice! How to empower confidence - with Lucy Antrobus

Every third week a new podcast episode is released featuring Swiss leaders discussing what organizations and individuals can do to increase the number of people with diverse backgrounds and perspectives in leadership positions.

Andrea Ullmann

Shows