Jim McDonald takes the Identity at the Center podcast on the road to Rome, Italy, for a special two-part episode. The first segment is an IdentiBeer roundup where Jim gathers quick-fire takes from practitioners in the Italian IAM community, including Andrea Rossi and Alessandro Piscopo of IAMONES and Marco Venuti of Thales on the biggest trends shaping identity today. The second segment is a three-course meal where Jim sits down with Alessandro Piscopo, Head of AI and Co-founder at IAMONES, to discuss AI and identity over food and wine.



Across a seafood starter, scialatielli alla pescatora, and tiramisu, the conversation covers the history of AI in identity, why LLMs represent a revolution rather than an evolution, the AI-first product philosophy versus retrofitting AI onto legacy systems, compute and architecture constraints facing large language models, and what life looks like for the IAM practitioner in 2030. Alessandro envisions an identity equivalent of Claude Code, a specialized AI tool that democratizes identity expertise the way coding assistants have transformed software development.



0:00 Intro and IdentiBeer Rome roundup

7:01 Alessandro on AI for IAM vs. IAM for AI

12:00 Three-course dinner begins - Course 1: Seafood starter

14:09 History of AI in identity, from ML models to LLMs

17:51 Course 2: Scialatielli alla pescatora and Falanghina wine

19:56 AI-first products vs. AI layered onto legacy systems

22:00 Transition period and the new world of identity

24:04 The ChatGPT moment vs. the iPhone moment

27:05 Compute constraints, energy costs, and architecture breakthroughs

30:46 Smaller models and cost-efficiency tradeoffs

32:35 Course 3: Tiramisu, baba, and espresso

33:00 Life as an IAM practitioner in 2030

35:19 Claude Code for IAM and democratizing identity tools

37:24 App store ecosystem analogy for AI platforms

43:07 Closing thoughts



Keywords: IAM, identity and access management, AI for IAM, IAM for AI, agentic AI, non-human identity, IGA, LLMs, large language models, AI-first, machine learning, Alessandro Piscopo, IAMONES, Jim McDonald, Jeff Steadman, Identity at the Center, IDAC, IdentiBeer, Rome, Italy, Marco Venuti, Thales, Andrea Rossi, agentic identity, transformer architecture, compute efficiency, identity practitioner 2030, Claude Code for IAM, identity democratization, Identiverse, European Identity Conference

#432 - IdentiBeer Rome and 3 Courses of IAM with Alessandro Piscopo

Recorded live at EIC 2026 in Berlin, Jeff and Jim sit down with Martin Kuppinger, founder and distinguished analyst at KuppingerCole. They dig into the tectonic shifts AI is bringing to identity and security, the AI security fabric framework, why decentralized identity thinking may be essential for governing the agentic mesh, the ongoing debate over NHI terminology, what organizations can do tactically today, and what concerns Martin most about where the industry is heading by 2030.







Connect with Martin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinkuppinger/







Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com







00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:50 What a Distinguished Analyst Does

01:37 EIC 2026: Thought Leadership and Best Practice

04:17 Agentic AI: Non-Directed, Non-Deterministic Identity

08:22 Speed of Change: Tactical Now, Strategic Later

12:34 The AI Security Fabric: Five Capability Blocks

15:10 Identity Fabric Origins and Market Growth

18:27 Discovery as the Foundation for Governance

19:48 Governance, Explainability, and Organizational Gaps

22:00 Agent Lineage and Rethinking NHI Terminology

23:50 LLMs vs. Small Language Models

26:23 Is Agentic Identity a Genuinely New Problem?

32:29 Humanoid Robots and the Limits of AI Reasoning

37:05 Decentralized Identity, Trust Frameworks, and Signals

41:07 Identity Verification and Consent for Agents

48:42 What Concerns Martin About the Future of Identity

50:34 Favorite AI Application: Assisted Driving

55:00 Self-Driving Cars, Data, and Personal Privacy







Keywords: Martin Kuppinger, KuppingerCole, EIC 2026, EIC Berlin, agentic AI, AI security fabric, identity fabric, decentralized identity, AI governance, non-human identity, autonomous identity, dependent identity, agent lineage, explainability, MCP server, small language models, verifiable credentials, risk-based authorization, OT security, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, IAM, identity security

#431 - Tectonic Shifts in Identity Security with Martin Kuppinger

Recorded live at EIC 2026 in Berlin, Jeff and Jim sit down with Martin Sandren, IAM Product Lead at IKEA, for a wide-ranging conversation covering nearly every corner of modern identity security. Martin shares what has changed since his first IDAC appearance on episode 293, including the rise of AI, growing interest in digital sovereignty, and the maturing shared signals framework. The conversation moves through risk-based defense in depth, tiered MFA rollout strategies, session management, and the real challenge of trusting AI to make security decisions. Martin introduces identity dark matter and explains how IVIP can surface the 95-plus percent of applications that never reach an IGA system. The episode also covers shadow AI, MCP server risks, the SaaSpocalypse debate, and the EU AI Act. It closes on a grounded note: solar panels.







Connect with Martin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martinsandren/



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com







TIMESTAMPS



00:00 Welcome and EIC 2026 intro

01:47 What has changed in two years: AI, sovereignty, shared signals

03:06 Martin's EIC presentations: AI for IAM and IAM for AI

04:46 Can you prioritize one direction over the other?

07:13 What would it take to trust AI making identity decisions?

09:32 AI-enhanced detection and risk-based session management

13:07 Session invalidation and the shared signals framework

14:11 Defense in depth and right-sizing privileges

18:25 MFA today: any MFA versus phish-resistant MFA

19:17 AI chatbots, enterprise LLMs, and shadow AI

23:11 MCP servers, NHI risk, and return on risk thinking

27:00 AI configuring IAM systems: how close are we?

31:30 LLM costs, the SaaSpocalypse, and enterprise AI futures

40:10 Identity dark matter and the IVIP concept

44:16 CMDB versus IVIP: do you need both?

46:18 The EU AI Act and building an AI governance registry

49:18 Where to start: get your AI inventory in place first

50:00 Closing thoughts and the solar panel tangent



KEYWORDS



AI for IAM, IAM for AI, identity dark matter, IVIP, IGA, shared signals framework, phish-resistant MFA, defense in depth, session management, MCP servers, NHI, shadow AI, SaaSpocalypse, EU AI Act, AI governance, zero standing privilege, EIC 2026, IKEA, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Martin Sandren







#430 - AI for IAM and IAM for AI with Martin Sandren

This episode is presented courtesy of SailPoint. Rob Sebaugh, Senior Identity Strategist at SailPoint, joins Jeff and Jim for a wide-ranging conversation on the past, present, and future of identity governance. Rob brings more than two decades of practitioner experience to the table, including 16 years running large-scale identity programs before making the move to the vendor side. The conversation covers what identity governance means today, why it must move to the forefront rather than be treated as an afterthought in an agentic world, and how organizations need to think fundamentally differently about non-human identities. Jeff and Jim explore the concept of treating AI as a first-class identity, how AI is beginning to replace rubber-stamp access certifications, the shift toward policy-based access control, and the practical path toward zero standing privilege. The episode wraps with a lighter conversation about Rob's 3D printing hobby.



About SailPoint:

SailPoint (Nasdaq: SAIL) is defining the new era of adaptive identity security. In a world where non-human identities now significantly outnumber humans, our AI-powered platform unifies identity, security, and data intelligence to protect today’s enterprise from advanced identity-based threats. We deliver the identity solution that spans both the breadth of identities and the depth of context needed to drive real-time access with confidence. Built on principles like zero-standing privilege and contextualized risk, our SailPoint platform transforms identity from a point of vulnerability into a powerful security advantage. Trusted by many of the world's leading organizations, SailPoint secures the enterprise with intelligent, autonomous identity security.



Learn more about SailPoint: https://www.sailpoint.com/



Connect with Rob: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-sebaugh-1ba9013/







Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com







Timestamps:



00:00 Introduction

00:48 Rob Sebaugh and the identity strategist role at SailPoint

04:38 Practitioner advice from the field

07:49 What SailPoint does: the hotel key analogy

11:04 Buying identity technology means buying a business process

13:30 What identity governance is and why it still matters

16:47 Risk-appropriate governance and privileged access

19:39 Non-human identities and the scale of the agentic challenge

22:57 Treating AI as a first-class identity

24:28 When AI makes governance decisions: beyond rubber stamping

28:04 Is identity governance a binary decision?

29:58 Securing data inside AI and large language models

34:09 Identity: the field that reinvents itself

35:01 Identity as the new control plane

37:21 Is all access privileged access?

40:25 Zero standing privilege in practice

44:22 Innovation, continuous identity, and what SailPoint is building

46:28 Identity posture management

50:13 Practitioner advice for the next three to five years

53:00 The future of IGA in ten years

57:44 Lighter note: 3D printing with Rob Sebaugh

1:05:35 Final thoughts on SailPoint







Keywords: Rob Sebaugh, SailPoint, identity governance, identity security, IGA, non-human identities, agentic AI, zero standing privilege, just-in-time access, identity posture management, control plane, zero trust, policy-based access control, AI certification, rubber stamping, sponsor spotlight, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald

#429 - Sponsor Spotlight - SailPoint

Recorded live at EIC 2026 in Berlin, Jeff and Jim sit down with Thomas Zarnhofer, IAM Architect at SPAR-ICS, the IT unit of the SPAR Austria Group, which operates roughly 3,000 retail stores and 32 shopping centers across Central Europe. Thomas shares his experience leading a full IGA transformation from a decade-old on-premise system to a modern cloud-based platform. The conversation covers the shift from a contract-based to a person-based identity model, the importance of cleaning data before migration begins, a three-phase framework of Foundation, Migration, and Adoption, lessons learned from running two systems in parallel, and a look at how AI could make IGA predictive. The episode ends with Thomas's tips for visiting Austria.







Connect with Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tzarnhofer/



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com







Timestamps



00:00 Introduction and EIC 2026 Setting

02:00 Thomas's Identity Origin Story

03:38 What Is SPAR-ICS?

04:21 The Catalyst for IGA Modernization

07:43 Contract-Based vs Person-Based Identity Models

09:22 Consolidating Master Data Sources

11:39 Data Quality and Attribute Ownership

13:34 Partnering with HR for Clean Data

16:43 Data Analysis: Why They Chose Excel Over AI

17:53 Clean Your Data Before You Migrate

18:23 The Three Phases: Foundation, Migration, Adoption

20:12 Driving Adoption Across the Organization

21:10 Running Two Systems in Parallel

22:47 Challenge Everything vs Lift and Shift

27:23 Surprises in the Cloud IGA Journey

29:02 Testing Requirements in the Cloud

29:51 AI and the Future of IGA

32:25 AI Chatbots and Role Discovery

35:30 Scoping Business Role Visibility

36:06 Life Outside IAM: Travel and Austria Tips







IAM, IGA, Identity Governance, IGA Migration, On-Premises to Cloud, Identity Model, Contract-Based Identity, Person-Based Identity, Master Data, Data Quality, HR Integration, Joiner Mover Leaver, Cloud IGA, SPAR-ICS, Retail IAM, EIC 2026, AI in IGA, Predictive IGA, Role Management, Access Governance, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Thomas Zarnhofer





#428 - Modernizing IGA with Thomas Zarnhofer

Jeff and Jim are joined by Heather Flanagan, Content Chair, and Andi Hindle, Conference Chair, for a full preview of Identiverse 2026 at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. They cover the 2026 theme of trust and change, why AI was removed as a standalone track and redistributed across all content areas, the provocative argument that non-human access now dramatically outpaces human access and is reshaping identity system design, whether authentication is truly solved, authorization as the harder unsolved problem, CFP surprises, networking events including Women at Identiverse, and predictions for 2027. Save 30% with code IDV26-IDAC30%. New IDPro members save $25 at idpro.org/idac.





Connect with Heather: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hlflanagan/



Connect with Andi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahindle/



Identiverse 2026: https://events.identiverse.com/2026/begin?code=IDV26-IDAC30%25



Heather's IAM Conference List: https://github.com/fedidcg/meetings/wiki/2026-List-of-Identity-and-Related-Conferences-and-Standards-Development-Events





Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com





TIMESTAMPS

00:00:00 Introduction and SolarWinds breach banter

00:03:27 Identiverse preview and discount codes

00:06:10 Guest introductions

00:06:52 Role of Content Chair

00:08:46 Role of Conference Chair

00:11:16 2026 conference theme

00:15:00 AI as context, not a standalone track

00:16:32 Control plane vs enablement plane debate

00:22:19 What the industry is underestimating

00:24:00 Non-human access outpaces human access

00:26:52 Is authentication solved? Passkeys

00:30:31 Authorization: far from solved

00:36:04 Extensibility in standards and deployments

00:38:22 CFP surprises: fraud and identity proofing

00:41:48 Usability and UX gaps

00:43:18 Agentic AI: identity or governance?

00:47:55 Networking and newcomer programming

00:51:45 Women at Identiverse

00:52:46 AI-generated CFP submissions

00:55:00 Predictions for Identiverse 2027

00:58:04 Theme songs for Identiverse 2026

01:02:58 Heather's identity conference list on GitHub

01:04:47 Swag culture at identity conferences

01:12:25 Wrap-up



KEYWORDS

Identiverse 2026, Heather Flanagan, Andi Hindle, identity conference, NHI, non-human identity, agentic AI, passkeys, authentication, authorization, IAM, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, digital identity, continuous identity architecture, zero standing privilege, verifiable credentials, identity governance

#427 - Identiverse 2026 Preview with Heather Flanagan and Andi Hindle

This episode and the Identity at the Center podcast is supported by CrowdStrike. Learn more at crowdstrike.com.



Jeff Steadman and Jim McDonald sit down with Scott Kriz, GM of Continuous Identity at CrowdStrike, for a deep dive into continuous identity, zero standing access, and the convergence of identity and security. Scott traces his path from co-founding Bitium, to selling it to Google Cloud, to building SGNL and ultimately joining CrowdStrike. The conversation covers how continuous identity works in practice, why traditional PAM and IGA fall short in a real-time world, and what the rise of agentic AI means for identity governance at scale.







Connect with Scott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottkriz/



Learn more about Crowdstrike: https://www.crowdstrike.com/en-us/platform/next-gen-identity-security/caep/?idac









Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com









00:00:00 Introduction and welcome

00:01:21 How Scott got into identity and co-founded Bitium

00:03:55 Selling to Google Cloud and the inspiration for SGNL

00:05:02 Continuous identity and zero standing access explained

00:09:13 Defining continuous identity at CrowdStrike

00:10:20 How continuous identity differs from PAM and IGA

00:15:06 Data as the foundation for continuous identity

00:19:29 Open ecosystems, Shared Signals Framework, and CAEP

00:25:26 Agents, identity chaining, SPIFFE, SPIRE, and MCP gateways

00:33:02 Identity inside CrowdStrike's broader security strategy

00:37:27 Identity security budgets and ROI-driven purchasing

00:40:04 Agentic scale and the need for automated identity controls

00:43:39 The SGNL acquisition: what it means for both companies

00:50:25 Zero trust as a real architectural framework

00:54:00 Helicopter skiing, avalanches, and staying present







Keywords: IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Scott Kriz, CrowdStrike, SGNL, continuous identity, zero standing access, PAM, IGA, zero trust, agentic AI, non-human identity, NHI, SPIFFE, SPIRE, MCP, identity security, real-time authorization, cybersecurity

#426 - Sponsor Spotlight - Crowdstrike

Jeff and Jim recap their week at KuppingerCole's EIC 2026 in Berlin, covering standout keynotes, hallway conversations, and sessions on securing AI agents, CIAM, and AI versus nuclear regulation. They announce a giveaway of Eve Maler's signed copy of Mastering Digital Identity for YouTube commenters by June 12th. The episode also features live footage and a full interview with Espen Bago, founder of IdentiBeer, recorded at the Berlin event. Jeff, Jim, and Espen discuss the rapid global growth of the IdentiBeer community, terminology challenges around NHI and IAM concepts, the gap between conference talk and real client needs, and why the industry keeps bypassing foundational data work in the rush toward AI and agentic identity.







Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com







00:00:10 Welcome and EIC 2026 Setup

00:03:57 Eve Maler Book Giveaway Details

00:05:00 Conference Highlights: Keynotes and Hallway Con

00:06:07 Elizabeth Garber's Standing Ovation Keynote

00:07:02 Brazil Invitation and Securing AI Agents

00:09:10 Nuclear Regulation vs. AI Regulation

00:11:07 Upcoming EIC Episode Preview

00:14:16 IdentiBeer Berlin Live Event

00:14:29 Interview with Espen Bago Begins

00:15:14 IdentiBeer Growth and Global Expansion

00:17:23 The IdentiBeer Name Debate

00:23:26 Data Quality Gaps in NHI and IAM

00:26:31 Who Owns IAM Terminology?

00:34:20 Conference Talk vs. Client Reality

00:40:52 The HR-IAM Gap Nobody Talks About

00:43:17 Fundamentals: The Karate Kid Analogy







Keywords: EIC 2026, European Identity Conference, IdentiBeer, Espen Bago, Eve Maler, Elizabeth Garber, Mastering Digital Identity, Berlin, Identiverse, NHI, non-human identities, IAM fundamentals, AI regulation, agentic identity, IGA, PAM, CIAM, IDPro, identity community, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald







#425 - EIC 2026 Recap & IdentiBeer Berlin

Jeff and Jim are back with the May 2026 mailbag, answering listener questions from Amsterdam, Mumbai, Austin, and Berlin. Topics include navigating IAM vendor acquisitions, defending against AI deepfakes in remote onboarding, governing contractor and third-party identities, fixing the leaver process in IGA, and tackling a decade of IAM technical debt. The episode closes with unpopular industry opinions: why RFPs are procurement theater, why rip and replace should be normalized, and why one-throat-to-choke vendor thinking usually backfires.



IDPro new member discount: https://idpro.org/idac/



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com



CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Intro and SNL nostalgia

03:25 AI model roundup: ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and usage limits

10:16 Identiverse 2026 and IDPro member discount

14:53 Q1: Navigating vendor acquisitions (Isabelle, Amsterdam)

24:00 Q2: AI deepfakes in identity verification (Rajan, Mumbai)

32:32 Q3: Contractor and third-party identity governance (Caleb, Austin)

43:00 Q4: The leaver process and IGA scope gaps (Anonymous)

51:10 Q5: Tackling IAM technical debt (Tomas, Berlin)

57:00 Normalizing rip and replace

01:01:00 RFPs, one throat to choke, and other hot takes

01:08:00 Wrap-up



KEYWORDS

IAM, identity governance, IGA, vendor consolidation, acquisitions, deepfakes, identity verification, contractor management, non-employee identity, technical debt, rip and replace, RFP, joiner mover leaver, leaver process, Identiverse 2026, IDPro, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald

#424 - IDAC Mailbag for May 2026

Jeff and Jim welcome back Robert Snodgrass, Principal at RSM, for a deep dive into the RSM Middle Market Business Index cybersecurity report. The conversation covers the confidence gap facing middle market organizations, why digital identity remains undervalued despite being the primary attack surface, non-human identity governance, flat cybersecurity budgets, risk framework adoption, and what good incident response preparedness actually looks like. The episode wraps with a spirited Bitcoin Pizza Day toppings debate.



Connect with Robert: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-snodgrass-7a199412/



Review the RSM US Middle Market Business Index Special Report on Cybersecurity 2025: https://rsmus.com/middle-market/cybersecurity-mmbi.html?cmpid=ola:45559-idac:bb01





IDPro new member discount: https://idpro.org/idac/





Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com





TIMESTAMPS

00:00:00 Introduction and Scatter Spider social engineering discussion

00:04:00 IDPro discount code and upcoming conferences

00:06:26 Guest intro: Robert Snodgrass and the MMBI report

00:09:05 Defining the modern middle market

00:12:00 The confidence gap: 96% confident, 18% breached

00:15:04 Why attackers log in and top identity investment priorities

00:19:00 Why only 23% of leaders prioritize digital identity

00:22:00 Internal partnerships as the path to identity program success

00:25:10 AI, shadow AI, and non-human identity risks

00:31:00 NHI governance at scale: 45 to 1 ratio

00:34:50 Cybersecurity budget realities in the middle market

00:39:00 EU regulation and top-line cybersecurity drivers

00:42:03 NIST CSF adoption and risk framework value

00:46:00 Incident response planning: the two-minute drill

00:52:16 Bitcoin Pizza Day and closing thoughts



KEYWORDS

identity security, middle market, cybersecurity, MMBI, RSM, Robert Snodgrass, phishing-resistant MFA, non-human identities, NHI, shadow AI, incident response, NIST CSF, IAM, identity governance, ransomware, tabletop exercises, digital identity, cybersecurity budget, identity program, IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald

#423 - The Middle Market Identity Security Gap with Robert Snodgrass

Identity at the Center is a weekly podcast all about identity security in the context of identity and access management (IAM). With decades of real-world IAM experience, hosts Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman bring you conversations with news, topics, and guests from the identity management industry. Do you know who has access to what? Want to join the conversation? Visit IdentityAtTheCenter.com or email us at questions@identityatthecenter.com

Jeff Steadman

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