Eve Maler, founder of Venn Factory and author of Mastering Digital Identity, joins Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman for her tenth appearance on Identity at the Center. Eve shares what she has learned since the book came out, from writing for non-technical executives (and keeping AI out of the manuscript) to the strange places identity ends up on the org chart. The conversation covers treating identity as a product, why identity can be a business model in disguise, how CISOs can influence CIAM when they are not the boss of it, and the identity debt that AI is now calling due. Eve also explains why intent looks more like purpose of use than finer-grained authorization, how contract language can help frame agent mandates, what trust means to humans versus security teams, and the early work on UMA for Agents (U4A) to govern third-party agents through a resource-centric, protect surface mindset. The episode wraps with travel tips from all three frequent flyers.







Connect with Eve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evemaler/



Eve's book "Mastering Digital Identity" - https://masteringdigitalidentity.com/



MyTerms: https://myterms.info/



UMA for Agents: https://u4a.ai/



Kwaai AI Lab - https://www.kwaai.ai/







Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com







00:00 Introduction and Eve's tenth appearance

02:40 Life since publishing Mastering Digital Identity

04:49 Writing for non-technical executives

06:36 AI and the book writing process

09:00 Identity as a product: feedback from leaders

10:29 The strangest places identity lives on the org chart

11:46 Metrics that work across functions

13:40 Identity as a business model in disguise

15:14 Identity's unhoused problem

16:56 Who is accountable for identity?

18:33 Security versus usability

20:43 Is identity the product or part of the product?

24:04 Normalizing product replacement

25:53 CISOs, CIAM, and "You're Not the Boss of Them"

28:03 Defining identity debt

29:27 How AI exposes identity debt

31:38 The organizational roots of identity debt

32:52 What intent means for AI agents

34:23 Poisoned intent and contracts as a model

36:15 Laws of robotics and the policy stack

39:21 MyTerms and IEEE 7012

40:04 Trust as a human word

43:29 UMA for Agents and third-party agents

47:27 The protect surface and what practitioners should consider

51:10 U4A maturity and how to get involved

53:43 Travel tips from frequent flyers

1:02:10 Wrap up





IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Eve Maler, Venn Factory, Mastering Digital Identity, identity as a product, identity product management, identity debt, technical debt, CIAM, customer identity, CISO, identity ownership, identity metrics, board-level identity, AI agents, agentic AI, non-human identity, NHI, intent, purpose of use, trust, zero trust, protect surface, UMA, User-Managed Access, UMA for Agents, U4A, third-party agents, MyTerms, IEEE 7012, Kwaai, consent phishing, phishing-resistant authentication, passkeys, NIST 800-63, IAM, identity and access management, travel tips

#453 - Treating Identity Like a Product with Eve Maler

Shea McGrew, Chief Technology Officer at Maricopa County, returns to Identity at the Center one year after episode 376 to take on a question she first raised at our Identity After Dark session: when does digital identity become critical infrastructure? Jeff and Jim talk with Shea about how a county broadband and digital equity project led her to see digital trust as the thread running through every digital government service, and why that trust depends on identity. The conversation covers building an external identity portal for residents, designing for consent and privacy from the start, why residents extend trust to private platforms more readily than to government, the right to be forgotten, data governance across departments, and where decentralized identity and verifiable credentials might fit. Shea also shares her view on access reviews as a learning journey, what it would take to trust AI agents with certifications, and whether an agent could ever be considered a citizen. Plus, potatoes and the proper way to cut a sandwich.





Connect with Shea: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shea-mcgrew-6b82a36/



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com





00:00 Welcome to Identity at the Center (or AI at the Center)

02:19 How Jim and Jeff met, and how the podcast started

04:09 Jeff's fall conference schedule

06:39 Do you want IDAC content over the holidays?

07:32 IDPro membership and introducing Shea McGrew

08:15 Looking back at Identity After Dark

10:44 Zero trust progress one year later

12:04 From device identity to external identity and broadband

16:04 What counts as critical infrastructure?

19:00 External identity requirements in government

21:04 The blast radius of identity failure

23:06 If identity is critical infrastructure, who owns it?

24:26 What other public sector leaders are saying

26:40 One person, many identities

28:40 How government earns resident trust

32:37 Why not just copy Amazon?

35:02 A right to be forgotten in the US?

36:22 Governing data across department boundaries

38:30 Decentralized identity and the ownership problem

41:30 Tokenization and existing blockchains

42:34 The digital trust umbrella

45:56 Park passes versus benefits and courts

49:19 Does an official designation unlock anything?

51:03 Access reviews: security theater or essential?

55:26 Would you trust AI agents with access reviews?

58:36 Can an AI agent be a citizen?

1:02:20 More questions than answers

1:04:24 Lighter note: If you were a potato

1:07:55 Bonus: How do you cut a sandwich?





IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Shea McGrew, Maricopa County, critical infrastructure, digital identity, digital trust, public sector identity, government identity, external identity, CIAM, citizen identity, resident identity, digital services, broadband, digital equity, zero trust, device identity, IGA, access reviews, access certifications, consent, privacy, right to be forgotten, data governance, decentralized identity, verifiable credentials, blockchain, tokenization, identity assurance, AI agents, agentic identity, non-human identity, NHI, human in the loop, Identity After Dark, IAM, identity and access management

#452 - When Identity Becomes Critical Infrastructure with Shea McGrew

Alex Bovee, CEO and co-founder of C1.ai (formerly ConductorOne), returns for his third appearance on Identity at the Center. Alex walks Jim and Jeff through the rebrand to C1.ai and why the .ai matters: identity now covers humans, workloads, and agents. The conversation opens on launch week and the new App Hub, built around a question many CIOs and CISOs are facing. What happens when everyone in the company becomes a builder and vibe-coded apps start running critical workflows?



From there, Alex frames the difference between humans, software, and agents using two dimensions, trustworthiness and determinism, and explains why agents that "goal max" call for runtime enforcement instead of relying only on after-the-fact reviews. He breaks down the Hugging Face breach, where an OpenAI agent under evaluation escaped its sandbox in pursuit of better eval results, and lays out six control points for agent security: identity, the harness, network egress, data and tools, the LLM gateway, and credentials.



The group also covers why IGA fundamentals speed up AI adoption, three buckets of agents (SaaS, enterprise, and personal productivity), agents evaluating other agents, governed swim lanes over shutting things down, and the slept-on problem of credentials sprawling across endpoints. Plus girl dads, boy families, and the return of the Royal Octopus.



Made possible with support from C1. Learn more at c1.ai/idac





Connect with Alex: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbovee/



Learn more about C1: https://www.c1.ai/idac



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com





00:00 Intro

00:33 Welcome back, Alex Bovee

01:28 From ConductorOne to C1 and the .ai rebrand

04:14 Launch week and the App Hub

07:07 Farm-to-table software and the limits of off-the-shelf SaaS

09:56 The real risks of vibe-coded apps

12:52 Humans, software, and agents: trust and determinism

17:10 UARs matter more for agents

17:59 What happened in the Hugging Face breach

21:23 Six control points for securing agents

25:38 Where should teams focus first?

31:33 Meeting customers where they are

33:02 Why IGA basics come before AI adoption

34:27 AI accelerates bad IAM

35:45 Governance versus business speed

37:51 SaaS, enterprise, and personal productivity agents

41:19 Runtime enforcement and agents evaluating agents

44:22 Can you train an agent not to goal max?

47:33 Governed swim lanes, not shutdowns

50:33 Publishing a vibe-coded app through App Hub

53:03 The slept-on credential problem

56:04 Girl dads, boy families, and the Royal Octopus

1:00:54 Wrap-up





IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Alex Bovee, C1, C1.ai, ConductorOne, Sponsor Spotlight, identity and access management, IAM, identity governance, IGA, AI agents, agentic AI, agentic enterprise, non-human identity, NHI, workload identity, machine identity, vibe coding, App Hub, Hugging Face breach, OpenAI, agent evals, goal maxing, runtime enforcement, runtime security, MCP, MCP gateway, LLM gateway, network egress, agent harness, just-in-time credentials, secrets management, shadow AI, user access reviews, UAR, joiner mover leaver, delegated authorization

#451 - Sponsor Spotlight - C1.ai

Jeff flies solo for episode 450, joined by Alexis Bernthal, an associate on RSM's technology risk consulting team who found her way to the podcast through a corporate-wide email and a contact form submission that led to an invitation to Identiverse. They trace how Alexis went from failing a high school computer science class to finishing a CS degree, and how a topic on the show, role-based access, first put identity and access management on her radar. Alexis walks through what technology risk consulting looks like day to day, her first industry conference experience at Identiverse (including Identibeer, sessions on agentic identity and transaction tokens, and a Women in Identity gathering), and the blog she started at AlexisBernthal.com to document her own journey. The conversation turns to what it takes to bring more early-career people into identity: the perceived technical barrier, the value of mentorship and simply introducing yourself at conferences, and whether seniority is really a prerequisite (Jeff's own path started with programming parking lot lighting identities at Walgreens). They close things out with a browser tab hot take and a warning about what not to leave open during a screen share.





Connect with Alexis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexis-bernthal/



Visit her website: AlexisBernthal.com



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com





00:10 - Introduction and upcoming conference schedule

01:48 - Guest introduction: Alexis Bernthal

02:10 - How Jeff and Alexis met and the podcast's origin story

08:12 - How Alexis got into IT and landed at RSM

11:02 - What technology risk consulting actually involves

14:34 - A day in the life, plus RSM's Power of Love campaign

17:15 - How identity first showed up on Alexis's radar

18:48 - Identiverse: Alexis's first-ever conference

21:31 - Enthusiasm, Identibeer, and standout sessions

26:06 - AlexisBernthal.com and her own podcast with her dad

28:35 - What surprised her most about IAM

30:05 - Jeff's identity-as-a-language analogy

37:49 - Breaking into IAM without a technical background

41:21 - Learning by being in the room, plus IDAC's website Easter eggs

46:23 - ID Pro, mentors, and shout-outs to the RSM digital identity team

49:58 - What's holding the next generation back from IAM

54:19 - Introducing yourself at conferences and meeting people where they are

59:30 - Jeff's own accidental start in identity, programming parking lot lights

1:04:00 - Luck, networking, and today's job market

1:08:03 - Advice for new grads breaking into the field

1:10:26 - Where Alexis sees her IAM journey heading

1:12:59 - Lightning round: how many browser tabs is too many

1:17:44 - A cautionary tale about screen sharing

1:20:12 - Wrap-up and thank you's





IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Alexis Bernthal, RSM, technology risk consulting, identity and access management, IAM, role-based access, Identiverse, Identibeer, ID Pro, agentic identity, transaction tokens, career development, mentorship, networking, early career, digital identity, authentication, authorization, single sign-on

#450 - New to Identity with Alexis Bernthal

George Fletcher joins Jeff Steadman and Sean O'Dell for a Decoded deep dive into transaction tokens (Txn-Tokens), the OAuth Working Group specification designed to secure requests as they move across microservices. George explains the problem transaction tokens solve: hop to hop security gaps, replayed access tokens, and the difficulty of tracking a single transaction across a graph of internal services. The conversation covers the anatomy of a transaction token, including the subject, audience, scope, and TXN claims, how a token's time to live should be scoped to the transaction itself, and why immutable parameters prevent tampering mid chain. George and Sean also explore how transaction tokens apply to AI agents and delegated authorization, referencing draft work on agent specific claims and cross domain trust. The episode closes with practical starting points for organizations of any size, including open source options and where to track the specification through the IETF OAuth Working Group.



Resources mentioned in this episode:



Transaction Tokens (base draft): https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-oauth-transaction-tokens-11.html



Transaction Token Chaining Profile (Cross Domain Trust): https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-fletcher-transaction-token-chaining-profile-02.html



Transaction Tokens for Agents: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-araut-oauth-transaction-tokens-for-agents-00.html



Tokenetes: https://tokenetes.io/



OAuth Working Group: https://github.com/oauth-wg





Decoded by Identity at the Center:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Sean O'Dell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanodentity/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com



00:15 Introduction and catching up with Sean O'Dell

01:25 Introducing today's topic, transaction tokens and zero trust

02:26 George Fletcher joins the show

02:41 George's path into identity, from AOL to the Liberty Alliance

04:22 The problem that led to transaction tokens at Verizon Media

09:01 What a transaction token is, in plain terms

10:25 The specific problem transaction tokens solve

11:43 Transaction tokens versus a short lived access token

13:48 Delegated authorization, traceability, and the TXN claim

22:04 How long a transaction token should live

27:13 Local AI, vibe coding, and shrinking token lifetimes

28:45 What is inside a transaction token, the core claims

35:39 Call chains and the transaction context claim

39:05 Applying transaction tokens to AI agents

41:08 The transaction tokens for agents draft and the ACT claim

43:37 Getting started with limited resources, open source options

46:32 Scaling transaction tokens at a larger organization

50:38 What transaction token nirvana looks like

53:31 Whether this replaces a standard OAuth server

55:59 Where to learn more, the IETF OAuth Working Group

58:09 Cross domain trust and calling outside the enterprise

1:01:38 Alternatives to transaction tokens and adoption incentives

1:05:16 George's summary of the conversation

1:07:26 Sean's closing thoughts and takeaways

1:09:19 Wrap up and close



IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Sean O'Dell, George Fletcher, Practical Identity, transaction tokens, Txn-Token, OAuth, OAuth Working Group, zero trust, microservices, access tokens, JWT, authorization, delegated authorization, agentic identity, AI agents, call chain, token exchange, TXN claim, scope claim, Verizon Media, IETF, Keycloak, Tokenetties, cross domain trust, Decoded

#449 - Decoded - Transaction Tokens with George Fletcher

Howard Ting, CEO of Opal Security, joins Jeff Steadman for a Sponsor Spotlight covering identity governance for both human and non-human identities. Howard traces his path through RSA Security, Microsoft, Palo Alto Networks, Nutanix, and Cyberhaven before returning to identity to lead Opal. The conversation covers why disabling a departing employee's account rarely ends their access, the orphaned tokens, service accounts, and agents left behind, and why visibility has to come before ownership and risk analysis. Howard and Jeff dig into agent intent and authority: whether an agent can declare its own intent, why permissions should stay a subset of what its human creator holds, and how narrowly scoped, single-task agents make governance easier. They also cover how Opal matches AI decision capacity to a growing volume of access requests, including how the company's Paladin AI supports approvers and campaign creators today. The episode closes with Opal's announcement of a unified platform for governing human, non-human, and agent identities together, extending Paladin's decisioning to agents and introducing Policy Insights to help security teams balance friction against risk. Howard shares his view that identity has to shift from an episodic, event-driven practice to a continuous one, along with a lighthearted detour into 90s video games.



Connect with Howard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/howardting/



Learn more about Opal Security: https://www.opal.dev/



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com



00:10 Intro and welcome

01:01 Howard's identity origin story: RSA, Microsoft, Kim Cameron

02:48 What Opal does: unified control plane for human and non-human identities

04:16 The opal.dev domain and how Opal got its name

06:42 Termination and lifecycle: why access doesn't fully go away

09:33 Session management and orphaned accounts

13:57 Visibility as the first step in identity governance

17:31 Can an agent declare its own intent?

20:29 Authority: should an agent ever exceed its creator's permissions?

22:12 Inside Opal: Risk Center and Policy Insights

25:41 How Opal connects to systems and collects usage data

27:30 Cross-application segregation of duties

29:06 Zero standing privilege and AI managing AI

32:12 Building trust in AI-driven access decisions

39:00 Announcing Opal's unified platform for agents and non-human identities

44:18 Explainability and traceability in Paladin's decisions

48:54 Tuning risk tolerance and autonomy in Paladin

51:20 Proving value: demos, POCs, and industry skepticism

57:47 The shift from episodic to continuous identity

59:50 Lightning round: favorite 90s video games



IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Howard Ting, Opal Security, Sponsor Spotlight, identity governance administration, IGA, non-human identity, NHI, agent identity, agentic AI, access governance, least privilege, just-in-time access, JIT, zero standing privilege, Paladin, Risk Center, Policy Insights, segregation of duties, SOD, RSA Security, Microsoft, Kim Cameron, Palo Alto Networks, Nutanix, Cyberhaven, continuous identity, identity lifecycle management, orphaned accounts, service accounts, API keys, intent-based access control

#448 - Sponsor Spotlight - Opal Security

Jeff Steadman sits down with Andi Hindle, conference chair for Authenticate 2026, for a preview of this year's event. Making his seventh appearance on the show, Andi walks through how Authenticate has evolved since its founding alongside Identiverse and outlines six major topic areas shaping the 2026 agenda, including passkeys in practice, regulatory pressures, security and standards architecture, digital identity wallets, and non-human authentication. The conversation moves into hardware-based identity for retail and industrial settings, age verification challenges, and a detour into 3D printing and supply chain assurance. Jeff and Andi dig into continuous identity and zero standing privilege, the shift toward non-human traffic dominating infrastructure requests, and how agentic AI is forcing organizations to rethink authorization and human-in-the-loop decisions. They close with privacy and consent questions for non-human identities, thoughts on where authentication and authorization standards are headed, and a lighter look at Authenticate team traditions and sci-fi recommendations.



Connect with Andi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahindle/



Impact of GDPR on Identity and Access Management by Andi Hindle: https://bok.idpro.org/article/id/24/



Learn more about FIDO Authenticate 2026: https://authenticatecon.com/event/authenticate-u-s-2026/

Non-FIDO members can use the code IDAC15 to save 15% on their in-person conference pass.



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com



00:10 - Introduction and discount code rundown for upcoming conferences

01:10 - Andi Hindle returns for his seventh appearance

01:29 - Favorite episode banter and the running Andrew Shikiar joke

03:08 - Origins of Authenticate and its relationship with Identiverse

09:01 - Passkeys are solved, so what comes next

09:53 - Lessons learned building the Authenticate agenda

12:59 - The scale of effort behind running Authenticate

15:29 - Adjacent topics expanding beyond the core passkeys mission

16:09 - Six major topic areas planned for Authenticate 2026

22:13 - Identity as the foundation for everything digital

23:14 - Hardware identity and non-human authentication

24:53 - Retail tokens, badges, and age verification use cases

28:36 - Replacing things only when the replacement is actually better

29:41 - A detour into 3D printing and personal satisfaction

31:39 - 3D printing, supply chain assurance, and identity problems

36:38 - Introducing continuous identity

37:28 - Zero standing privilege and why it matters now

40:46 - The human user as the infrastructure edge case

45:16 - Speed, scale, and the limits of human in the loop

46:11 - Setting red lines for agentic risk

50:56 - Privacy and consent questions for non-human identities

56:51 - Anonymization, data logging, and GDPR parallels

59:51 - A GDPR and IAM resource from the IDPro Body of Knowledge

1:00:26 - What Authenticate topics might look like three years out

1:04:59 - Why accounts may not make sense for agents

1:06:49 - Authorization as the next hard problem to solve

1:08:20 - Inside jokes from the Authenticate organizing team

1:09:30 - The story behind Andi's favorite Britishism

1:10:38 - Book and media recommendations

1:14:39 - Closing thoughts and sign-off



IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Andi Hindle, Authenticate 2026, FIDO Alliance, passkeys, identity verification, identity wallets, continuous identity, zero standing privilege, agentic identity, non-human identity, authorization, shared signals, GDPR, ID

#447 - Authenticate 2026 Preview with Andi Hindle

Rick Scot, Global CIO and CISO at Elevate Textiles, joins Jim and Jeff to talk about how he went from leading a data team to holding both the CIO and CISO seats at a global manufacturing company. Rick shares the moment that pulled him into security, how his tight-knit Charlotte cyber community shapes his thinking, and how he balances speed and control when the two roles pull in different directions. The conversation moves into identity for the age of AI agents: whether an agent is a human or non-human identity (Rick argues it's neither), who should own accountability when something goes wrong, and how session termination has to extend beyond turning off an account. Rick also digs into shadow AI, the real cost of tokens versus flat-rate licenses, and how he evaluates new identity technology against his organization's size and risk appetite. The episode closes with what excites and concerns him most about AI over the next three to five years, his advice for identity practitioners, and a lighter look at hobbies people wouldn't expect.



Connect with Rick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickscot/



Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com



00:00 - Intro and community shoutouts

07:06 - Introducing Rick Scot, Global CIO and CISO at Elevate Textiles

07:46 - How Rick got into cybersecurity

09:22 - Charlotte's tight-knit cyber community

11:18 - The moment that made security the focus

13:06 - Balancing the CIO and CISO roles

16:17 - What "Identity at the Center" means to Rick

19:26 - Where to start when building an IAM program

23:29 - Balancing risk and innovation with AI

27:46 - Who should own accountability for an AI agent

29:38 - A hierarchy for agent identities

33:31 - Terminating access and sessions, not just accounts

36:25 - Dealing with shadow AI

41:37 - Standing up a governance process for new AI projects

43:19 - Evaluating new identity technology and token costs

48:51 - Training and governance around AI usage

52:22 - Established vendors versus disruptive startups

56:56 - Looking three to five years ahead

1:00:20 - Advice for identity practitioners

1:01:41 - Lightning round: hobbies and surprises

1:08:40 - Closing and where to find Rick



IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Rick Scot, Elevate Textiles, CIO, CISO, identity and access management, IAM program, identity governance, AI agents, non-human identity, agentic identity, shadow AI, session management, offboarding, token costs, Charlotte cybersecurity community, identity leadership

#446 - Rethinking Identity for AI Agents with Rick Scot

Jim McDonald hosts this Sponsor Spotlight episode of Identity at the Center, made possible with support from Twine Security. Jim is joined by Benny Porat, co-founder and CEO of Twine Security and previously co-founder and CTO of Claroty. Benny shares how his cybersecurity background led him into identity and explains the concept of the "execution gap," the space where identity teams are accountable for outcomes but lack the full business context to act on their own. The conversation explores Twine Security's AI digital employee, Alex, and how it differs from traditional automation and RPA, where AI-driven execution fits best within identity operations today, and the balance between the parts of a task AI can handle easily versus the harder remaining work. Benny and Jim also dig into governance and trust, including why least privilege matters even more for AI agents and non-human identities, how organizations typically start with read-only access before expanding permissions, and how access reviews and recertification could evolve as AI takes on more of the process. They close with reflections on measuring success, how the identity practitioner's role changes as more execution shifts to AI, and a lighter round on what a personal AI digital employee might look like.





Connect with Benny: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bennyporat/



Learn more about Twine Security: https://www.twinesecurity.com/





Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at idacpodcast.com





00:00 - Introduction and welcoming Benny Porat, co-founder and CEO of Twine Security

00:52 - How Benny found his way into identity and access management

02:21 - The origin of the name Twine

03:28 - Defining the IAM execution gap

05:53 - AI digital employees versus RPA and automation

08:07 - Where AI digital employees are best suited today

09:45 - Why AI is strong at eighty percent and what makes the rest difficult

14:45 - Where a digital employee like Alex fits within identity operations

18:43 - Trust, governance, and giving AI agents the right permissions

21:42 - Applying least privilege to AI agents and non-human identities

25:19 - How organizations start using Alex, from read-only to full execution

30:27 - Rethinking the role of access reviews with AI involved

33:14 - Measuring efficiency gains and revocation rate improvements

36:00 - Addressing concerns about AI replacing IAM practitioners

39:12 - How customers define and measure success

44:15 - How the practitioner's day-to-day role changes with AI agents

47:12 - Closing thoughts and where to learn more

47:37 - Lighter note: imagining a personal AI digital employee





Keywords: IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Benny Porat, Twine Security, Sponsor Spotlight, AI digital employee, Alex, identity and access management, IAM, execution gap, least privilege, access reviews, recertification, agentic AI, non-human identity, NHI, Claroty, IGA, PAM, governance, human in the loop

#445 - Sponsor Spotlight - Twine Security

Jeff and Jim open with the unavoidable topic of AI agents and the tension between enabling innovation and governing agent permissions, then run through a packed fall conference schedule. The August mailbag pulls questions from Singapore, Toronto, Prague, Johannesburg, Helsinki, and Seoul. They discuss when externalized authorization makes sense, why passkey recovery can become the weak link in phishing-resistant authentication, what EU digital identity wallets may mean for enterprises, how continuous access evaluation changes the meaning of terminating access, and how to build resilience around a centralized identity provider without creating a second full-scale IdP. The episode closes with a lighter question: if every IAM product needed a giant warning label, what should it say?





Connect with us on LinkedIn:



Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/



Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/



Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com





00:10 - Welcome and have we talked about AI too much?

01:32 - Governing AI agents without becoming the progress prevention department

03:50 - Fall conference season and IDPro

04:40 - Cybersecurity Summits in Chicago and Atlanta

06:40 - SailPoint Navigate, InfoSec World, FIDO Authenticate, and Identiverse DC

10:40 - 3D printing, challenge coins, and superfan status

11:56 - August mailbag begins

12:19 - Singapore: Is externalized authorization ready for mainstream IAM?

20:30 - Toronto: Passkeys, account recovery, and help desk social engineering

25:55 - Prague: What should enterprises do about EU digital identity wallets?

31:44 - Johannesburg: Continuous session revocation and what “terminate access” really means

38:04 - Helsinki: Designing identity resilience around a centralized IdP

45:23 - Seoul: What warning label should every IAM product have?

48:26 - Wrap-up and how to send future mailbag questions





IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, IAM, identity and access management, August 2026 mailbag, externalized authorization, authorization, policy-based access control, passkeys, account recovery, phishing-resistant authentication, identity verification, EU digital identity wallet, continuous access evaluation, shared signals, session revocation, token revocation, identity resilience, identity provider, disaster recovery, business continuity, AI agents, agentic identity, IDPro, FIDO Authenticate, Identiverse DC, InfoSec World, SailPoint Navigate

#444 - August 2026 Mailbag

Jeff Steadman (@jsteadman) · Zencastr

Jeff Steadman (@jsteadman)

Identity at the Center is a weekly podcast all about identity security in the context of identity and access management (IAM). With decades of real-world IAM experience, hosts Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman bring you conversations with news, topics, and guests from the identity management industry. Do you know who has access to what? Want to join the conversation? Visit IdentityAtTheCenter.com or email us at questions@identityatthecenter.com