What if the biggest risk in deploying AI isn't the technology itself, but how your team is able to understand its most significant benefits?


Agility requires more than just adapting your technology stack; it demands a flexible brand narrative and a creative approach that can evolve with customer sentiment and cultural shifts. This is particularly true when tackling a topic as hyped and misunderstood as artificial intelligence.


Today, we're going to talk about what it takes to break the mold of traditional B2B marketing, particularly in the age of AI. We'll explore how brands can move beyond feature-focused messaging to create genuine emotional resonance and build a brand that feels both innovative and human.


To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Robbie Ferrara, Global Creative Director at monday.com.

About Robbie Ferrara

As Director of Creative at Monday.com, Robbie leads the creative vision for the brand, shaping global marketing strategies, defining messaging, and spearheading mass advertising campaigns that drive brand growth and engagement.
Robbie oversees the in-house creative department and manage relationships with creative agencies and production partners to deliver impactful global campaigns. He also plays a critical part in evolving Monday.com’s creative identity and driving its position as one of the fastest-growing tech brands in the world.
Prior to monday.com, Robbie held creative leadership roles at Prime Video and Amazon.

Robbie Ferrara on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbieferrara/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbieferrara/?originalSubdomain=uk]

Resources

monday.com: www.monday.com [http://www.monday.com/]

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Take a look a the Monday.com marketing campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hkcw_j8js0

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom

Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]

Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]

The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#784: Monday.com Global Creative Director Robbie Ferrara on clarifying the benefits of AI

What happens when your brand has a million different voices speaking to a million different customers? Is that the pinnacle of personalization, or is it just brand chaos?


Agility requires both the speed to personalize content for every individual as well as the control to ensure every one of those interactions faithfully represents the core brand.


Today, we're going to talk about resolving one of the biggest paradoxes in modern marketing: achieving hyper-personalization at massive scale, without sacrificing brand governance and consistency. We’ll explore how generative AI is moving from a creative novelty to a core operational engine for enterprise marketing, enabling brands to craft unique stories for every customer, while ensuring they all sing from the same hymn sheet.


To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Jason Ing, CMO at Typeface.
About Jason Ing

Jason Ing is the Chief Marketing Officer at Typeface, where he leads global marketing and drives the shift toward AI-powered content creation. Over the past two decades, he has built high-performing marketing teams and launched enduring, customer-obsessed campaigns at brands including Procter & Gamble, Xbox, Amazon Prime Video, AWS, and Gusto. Known for systematically scaling teams, programs, and go-to-market motions, Jason has a track record of delivering marketing strategies that not only drive impact in the moment but continue to perform years later. At Typeface, he helps modern marketers rewire how their teams work—so they can move faster, scale smarter, and unlock AI’s full potential.

Jason Ing on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ingjason/

Resources

Typeface: https://www.typeface.ai [https://www.typeface.ai/]

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#783: Typeface CMO Jason Ing on the paradox of hyper personalization and brand consistency

What if the most damaging phrase in your marketing isn't a four-letter word, but three simple ones: "Do Not Reply"?


Agility requires more than just moving fast; it requires breaking down the walls between departments to respond to customer needs in the moment they happen. It’s about empowering every part of the organization to act as one cohesive brand, turning every interaction into a meaningful conversation.


Today, we're going to talk about the end of an era: of one-way, impersonal, "do not reply" marketing. We’ll explore the shift from siloed campaigns to unified, real-time conversations, and what it takes to empower every single employee, from sales to service, to be an extension of the marketing team to build trust and drive growth.


To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Bobby Jania, CMO Marketing Cloud at Salesforce.

About Bobby Jania

Bobby Jania is an experienced marketing professional currently serving as CMO of Marketing Cloud at Salesforce since June 2014, where a focus on building personalized customer journeys has been paramount. Prior to Salesforce, Bobby held multiple strategic roles at Responsys, emphasizing the importance of integrated digital marketing strategies, and spent nearly a decade at Cypress Semiconductor, where responsibilities included leading innovations in programmable system-on-chip solutions and managing global marketing efforts. Bobby's career began with a role as a Teaching Assistant at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, which laid the groundwork for a passion for technology and marketing. Bobby holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Computer Engineering from the same institution.

Bobby Jania on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobbyjania/

Resources

Salesforce : https://www.salesforce.com/marketing/

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#782: Saleforce Marketing Cloud CMO Bobby Jania on the end of "Do No Reply" marketing

What if the biggest threat to your brand’s profitability isn’t the next tariff or supply chain disruption, but an outdated playbook that forces you to choose between raising prices on loyal customers or sacrificing your margins?
Agility requires more than just reacting quickly to market changes; it requires the intelligence to anticipate them and automate the optimal response.


Today, we're going to talk about how leading retail brands are navigating complex economic pressures like tariffs and inflation—not by resorting to the old tactics of deep discounts or across-the-board price hikes, but by deploying AI to create a more resilient and intelligent operation. We'll explore how AI is helping brands maintain pricing stability, turn insights from major shopping events into real-time strategy, and fundamentally shift teams from staring at dashboards to taking automated, margin-protecting actions.


To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Sai Koppala, CMO at CommerceIQ.

About Sai Koppala

Sai brings over 20 years of marketing and strategy experience. Before CommerceIQ, he was Chief Marketing & Strategy Officer at SheerID and held leadership roles at Apigee (acquired by Google) and SAP. He holds an MBA from the Kellogg School of Management and a Master's in Electrical Engineering from Arizona State University.

Sai Koppala on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/koppala/

Resources

CommerceIQ: https://www.commerceiq.com [https://www.commerceiq.com/]

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#781: CommerceIQ CMO Sai Koppala on retailer resilience through intelligent operations

What if the biggest threat to your brand’s agility and security isn't a competitor, but the welcome mat you lay out for your own partners?


Agility requires not just the ability to move quickly, but the confidence to do so securely. It’s about building a foundation of trust that enables seamless collaboration without introducing unnecessary risk.


Today, we're going to talk about a critical, yet often overlooked, aspect of brand agility: the digital experience we provide to our third-party partners. From marketing agencies to technology vendors, these relationships are essential, but the very processes meant to enable them—like onboarding and system access—can often be the source of massive friction, security risks, and a fundamental breakdown of trust.


To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Haider Iqbal, Director, Identity & Access Management at Thales.
About Haider Iqbal

Haider is a technology leader and strategist with a career that spans consulting, sales, acquisitions, and product marketing across multiple regions. He has guided multimillion-dollar sales efforts, played a key role in a $100 million identity-sector acquisition, and now leads product marketing for Thales’s IAM business. With roots in management consulting and a track record of translating complex technology into business growth, Haider brings both breadth and depth of expertise. Driven by a mindset of constant learning and unlearning, he is passionate about building technology that is inclusive, trustworthy, and safe for future generations. Outside of work, Haider can often be found on a cricket pitch, volleyball court, or golf course, with very occasional success.

Haider Iqbal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haideriqbal/

Resources

Thales: https://www.thales.com [https://www.thales.com/]

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#780: Third-party partner experience and security with Haider Iqbal, Thales

What if the multi-million dollar AI initiative you're championing is being silently sabotaged, not by a competitor, but by your own data infrastructure?
Agility requires more than just fast decision-making; it requires a data foundation that can deliver insights at the speed of business, without the traditional delays of moving and duplicating information. This ability to access and act on real-time, comprehensive data is what separates brands that lead from those that follow.
Today, we're going to talk about the silent killer of AI projects.
While everyone focuses on the glamour of AI models and algorithms, the reality is that most enterprise initiatives stall or fail at the data layer. We’ll be discussing why even modern data warehouses can create new roadblocks, and how a different approach to data management can make your enterprise data truly AI-ready.
To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Ravi Shankar, Senior Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer at Denodo.
About Ravi Shankar

Ravi Shankar is the Senior Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer at Denodo. He is responsible for Denodo’s global marketing efforts, including product marketing, demand generation, field marketing, communications, social marketing, customer advocacy, partner marketing, branding, and solutions marketing.,Yes,This will be completed shortly

Ravi Shankar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ravishankardevaraj/

Resources

Denodo: https://www.denodo.com/en/document/analyst-report/denodo-lakehouse-roi

This episode is brought to you by Denodo. Powered by logical data management, the Denodo Platform accelerates data integration, management, and delivery for all your business’s data needs.

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#779: Denodo CMO Ravi Shankar on why good data is critical to AI success

During the chaos of the holiday season, is it possible for small retailers to turn their fragmented customer data into a perfectly timed, personalized marketing, or are they destined to just add to the noise?


Agility requires not just collecting customer data from every channel, but having the insight and tools to act on it in the moments that matter most. It’s the ability to translate a customer signal into a relevant experience, instantly.
Today, we're going to talk about how small and mid-sized retailers can punch above their weight during the critical holiday season.



We'll explore the challenge of turning fragmented customer data from online browsing, email clicks, and even in-store visits into a cohesive strategy that drives precision-targeted campaigns, creates loyal customers, and, most importantly, delivers measurable ROI in a complex, multi-channel world.


To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Diana Williams, VP of Product Management at Intuit Mailchimp.

About Diana Williams

Diana Williams is VP of Product Management at Intuit Mailchimp. She is a dynamic leader who excels at turning concepts into revenue-generating products in fast-paced environments. Her experience includes launching e-commerce and business platforms, with expertise in product strategy and accelerating high-quality product execution. Previously, she held leadership roles at technology startups and companies like Meta and eBay. She resides in the Bay Area.

Diana Williams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianalwilliams/

Resources

Intuit Mailchimp: https://www.mailchimp.com [https://www.mailchimp.com/]

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#778: Intuit Mailchimp's Diana Williams on moving from fragmentation to holiday sales success 

Is your contact center ready to become a profit center?


Agility requires not just adopting new technologies like AI, but also fundamentally rethinking how we structure our teams, measure success, and interact with customers. It demands a willingness to experiment, learn, and adapt quickly in a constantly evolving landscape.


Today, we're going to talk about how artificial intelligence is revolutionizing the contact center, transforming it from a cost center into a driver of customer loyalty and revenue growth.


To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome Chang Chang, Senior Director, Product, Cloud CX Solutions at Cisco's Webex Customer Experience Solutions.

About Chang Chang

Chang Chang, Senior Director, Product, Cloud CX Solutions, Cisco's Webex Customer Experience Solutions. 


Chang is a senior director of product management in the Webex Customer Experience Solutions business at Cisco. With over 14 years of product leadership experience, Chang has held key roles at Intuit and Mighty Audio (an early-stage startup), as well as a management consultant at PwC. Chang holds an MBA from UCLA Anderson.

Chang Chang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/changjonathanj/

Resources

Cisco's Webex Customer Experience Solutions: https://www.webex.com/

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#777: Cisco's Chang Chang on how AI is fundamentally reshaping the contact center

In a world drowning in data, is the 'big creative idea' for a holiday campaign an endangered species, or is it more critical than ever?


Agility requires not just moving fast, but moving with confidence. It's the ability to validate creative instincts with real-world data, ensuring that your biggest bets are also your smartest ones.


Today, we're going to talk about the high-stakes world of holiday advertising and the delicate balance between creative magic and data-driven methodology. We’re going to talk about one such campaign for John Lewis, a popular British Department store whose holiday ads are a cultural event in the UK, where the stakes can be high.


And they aren’t alone. The holiday season is the equivalent of the Super Bowl for many brands, where a single campaign can define the entire year. Yet, for every heartwarming success story, there are countless others that miss the mark. So how do brands de-risk their biggest creative investments and ensure their message will actually resonate with consumers?

About Nataly Kelly

Nataly Kelly is Chief Marketing Officer at Zappi, based in Boston, MA. Previously she served at HubSpot as Vice President of Marketing, Vice President of International Operations and Strategy, and Vice President of Localization.

Nataly Kelly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalykelly/

Resources

Zappi: https://www.zappi.io/

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Watch the John Lewis "Where Love Lives" Ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1bRlnyQeDk
Zappi Report: Lessons in Advertising: Christmas 2025
Zappi Report: The Connected Insights Imperative
Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#776: Black Friday Special: Zappi CMO Nataly Kelly on the high-stakes world of holiday advertising

For most entrepreneurs, the exit is the goal, as well as the end of at least that part of their story. But what if the end is actually a new beginning?


Agility requires a deep understanding of your brand's core purpose and the conviction to protect it. This often means having the courage to reverse a decision that was once seen as the ultimate success.


Today, we're going to talk about brand integrity, the founder's paradox of building a company to sell, and what happens when you get a second chance to reclaim the brand you created. We'll explore the delicate balance between corporate scale and entrepreneurial soul, and how a brand's purpose can be its most resilient asset.


To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome, Mark Rampolla, Co-Founder and Managing Partner at Groundforce Capital.

About Mark Rampolla

Mark Rampolla is a visionary entrepreneur and the founder of ZICO Coconut Water, a brand that helped create the now $8 billion global coconut water category. After growing ZICO into one of the fastest-growing beverages worldwide, Mark sold the company to Coca Cola in 2013. He then transitioned into investing, co-founding PowerPlant Partners, where he played a key role in the plant-based food movement, including the success of Beyond Meat.


In 2020, Mark made a bold move by repurchasing ZICO from Coca Cola with a group of investors, including Jesse Itzler and tennis star Naomi Osaka. Now, through GroundForce Capital, Mark manages $500 million in assets, focusing on health, wellness, and sustainability investments. His journey reflects a deep commitment to innovation and positive change in the consumer goods industry.

Mark Rampolla on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marksrampolla/

Resources

Founder Groundforce Capital: https://www.markrampolla.co/

The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by TEKsystems. Learn more here: https://www.teksystems.com/versionnextnow

Catch the future of e-commerce at eTail Palm Springs, Feb 23-26 in Palm Springs, CA. Go here for more details: https://etailwest.wbresearch.com/

Connect with Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregkihlstrom
Don't miss a thing: get the latest episodes, sign up for our newsletter and more: https://www.theagilebrand.show [https://www.theagilebrand.show/]
Check out The Agile Brand Guide website with articles, insights, and Martechipedia, the wiki for marketing technology: https://www.agilebrandguide.com [https://www.agilebrandguide.com/]
The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link—a Latina-owned strategy-driven, creatively fueled production co-op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. https://www.missinglink.company [https://www.missinglink.company/]

#775: ZICO Coconut Water Founder Mark Rampolla on brand integrity and the courage to make tough decisions

Agile brands understand that customer experience, employee experience, and digital transformation all combine to form brand experience. The Agile Brand is hosted by Greg Kihlström, entrepreneur, advisor, speaker, and best-selling author. It features leaders of top organizations around the world and provides a fresh perspective on the continually evolving dynamic between brands and the audiences they serve.

The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlstrom

Welcome to the Innovation Economy podcast, where we look at the factors that drive business growth, including how people, processes, platforms, and places work together to create the future of work.

The Innovation Economy

From the creators and host of the award-winning The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström podcast, comes B2B Agility, a podcast focused on how B2B marketers and the brands they represent become category leaders and drive optimal results.

The show looks at B2B success in a variety of ways, all with a focus on the intersection of sales, marketing & technology. Guests will represent brands, consultancies, and platforms that enable B2B marketers to do their best work.

B2B Agility with Greg Kihlström

According to a Bain Consulting study, 80% of CEO’s believe their companies deliver a superior customer experience but only 8% of their customers agree. I talk to guests with a wide range of expertise, who share meaningful insights and wisdom to help you close that gap.  We give you practical tips, proven frameworks, and share ways to help you delight YOUR customers.

Delighted Customers with Mark Slatin

The Composable Roadmap isn’t just a listen; it’s a journey. It challenges you to rethink how you view your organizational capabilities and equips you with the foresight to build not just for today, but for a future that is perpetually just around the corner. For anyone serious about making agility a core competency of their organization, this podcast s your starting point.

The Composable Roadmap

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