In this episode of Catching Up, Nate McClennen and Mason Pashia explore the ideas shaping the future of learning and work—from the link between school innovation and enrollment demand to the rise of student influencers as a new form of district storytelling. They also dig into AI's growing role in education, including bias in feedback systems, the homogenizing effect of generative tools, and how AI may free teachers to spend more time on uniquely human work. The conversation also highlights the importance of agency, internships, and real-world learning, while ending with reflections on poetry, humility, and the power of noticing the world around us.

Outline
 * (0:00) Intro & Episode Preview
 * (10:14) Student Influencers
 * (12:51) AI Bias & Homogenization
 * (27:01) Deep Dive: Agency & AI's Role in Education
 * (50:17) What's That Song?

Links
 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdO0h_To9z8]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/catching-up-student-influencers-ais-mirror-problem-the-power-of-early-work-experience/]
 * Can Student Influencers Help This District Rebuild Enrollment? [https://www.edweek.org/leadership/can-student-influencers-help-this-district-rebuild-enrollment/2026/04?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
 * Personalized Bias in AI Writing Feedback [https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3785022.3785113?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
 * Percentage of High School and College Students Ages 16 Through 24 Who Were Employed [https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d21/tables/dt21_503.10.asp?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
 * Shut Out: High School Students Learn About Careers but Can't Try One That Pays [https://www.the74million.org/article/shut-out-high-school-students-learn-about-careers-but-cant-try-one-that-pays/?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
 * Student Agency Boosts Engagement and Readiness [https://news.gallup.com/poll/660503/student-agency-boost-engagement-readiness.aspx?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
 * Agency in America [https://www.archbridgeinstitute.org/agency-in-america/?utm_source=chatgpt.com]
 * We're About to Get Agency Wrong [https://bseducation.substack.com/p/were-about-to-get-agency-wrong-the?utm_source=chatgpt.com]



Catching Up: Student Influencers, AI's Mirror Problem & The Power of Early Work Experience

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen talks with Liza Garoznik, founder and CEO of Real Discussion, about one of the biggest questions in education today: how do we teach and assess durable skills like communication, listening, and collaboration? Framed by the rise of AI and growing concern about a "conversation crisis," the discussion explores why authentic interaction must be developed alongside artificial intelligence. Liza shares the origin story behind Real Discussion, explains the REAL framework—Relate, Excerpt, Ask, Listen—and offers practical insight into how schools can embed conversation skills into core academics while also measuring student growth, belonging, and engagement.

Outline
 * (0:00) Introduction & Durable Skills Framework
 * (3:40) Liza's Story & Real Discussion Origins
 * (11:23) The Conversation Crisis & Authentic Interaction
 * (21:36) The REAL Framework & Teaching Discussion Skills
 * (26:22) Assessment & Measuring Student Growth
 * (34:19) Practical Tools & Future of Real Discussion

Links
 * Watch the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/liza-garonzik-on/]
 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ChB95c5H5g]
 * LinkedIn [https://me.sh/profile/liza-cowan-garonzik]
 * R.E.A.L. Discussion [https://realdiscussion.org/]
 * Liza Garonzik on Teaching Tomorrow's Human Skills [https://realdiscussion.org/liza-garonzik-on-teaching-tomorrows-human-skills-in-todays-classrooms/]
 * Grade Discussion Skills, Not Discussions [https://intrepidednews.com/grade-discussion-skills-not-discussions/]



How Do We Teach Conversation? | Liza Garonzik

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Mason Pashia sits down with Joana Ponce and Catherine Alves, featured in Roadtrip Nation's Explore Your Interests, for a thoughtful conversation about passion, purpose, and the messy reality of career exploration. Together, they reflect on how exposure to new people and possibilities helped them rethink the idea of a single "right" path, and why learning to navigate uncertainty may be one of the most important skills young people can build. From journalism and activism to climate work and community-based learning, this episode is a powerful reminder that fulfilling futures are rarely linear—and that sometimes the most important step is simply staying open to what comes next.

Outline
 * (0:00) Introduction & Poetry
 * (2:10) Non-Linear Career Paths
 * (5:14) What Is Roadtrip Nation?
 * (22:09) Passion, Purpose & Career Advice
 * (29:11) What's Next

Links
 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHJmNAz1fAU]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/road-trip-nation-students-on/]
 * Roadtrippers' Journeys [https://roadtripnation.com/roadtrip/explore-your-interests]
 * Roadtrip Nation [https://roadtripnation.com/about]





How Does Roadtrip Nation Help It's Students Find Passion? | Road Trip Nation Students

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen sits down with Dr. Adel DiOrio to explore how school leaders can move from fragmented initiatives to real coherence through knowledge management, transformational leadership, and coaching. Drawing on her research in rural school systems and insights from The Coach's Playbook, Adel shares why documenting what works, building strong relationships, and leading with intention are essential to sustaining improvement over time. From the power of "if you think it, ink it" to the life-changing influence of coaches and leaders, this conversation offers practical wisdom for principals, superintendents, teachers, and anyone working to build stronger, more human-centered schools.

Outline
 * (0:00) Introduction & Guest Welcome
 * (5:56) Adel's Background & Career Path
 * (12:05) Leadership & Building Cohesive Teams
 * (19:07) Knowledge Management Research
 * (24:08) Dissertation Findings & Practical Takeaways
 * (37:51) The Coach's Playbook
 * (47:06) Wrap-Up & Key Takeaways

Links
 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJgoXJ5AV-A]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/adel-diorio-on-leading-away-from-fragmentation-and-towards-coherence/]
 * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/adel-diorio-ed-d-4813a456/]



How Can We Lead Away From Fragmentation and Towards Coherence? | Adel DiOrio

Why do so many promising ideas in education stay stuck in individual classrooms? In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen talks with Rebecca Wolfe about what it takes to turn innovation into lasting system change. From teacher agency and school leadership to accountability and knowledge-sharing, they explore how schools can create the conditions for ideas to spread, scale, and ultimately support learner thriving.

Outline
 * (00:00) Intro & The Problem
 * (12:46) Learning From AVID
 * (24:42) School Leadership & Culture
 * (34:15) The Macro Challenge
 * (41:40) Hope & A Bias Toward Action

Links
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/rebecca-wolfe-on-the-when-of-transformation/]
 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTZY6Ll7n0s]
 * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccaewolfe/]



How Do Schools Turn Innovation Into Systemic Change? | Rebecca Wolfe

Every school that has tried to change and failed has done so for the same reason: the system kept producing exactly the results it was designed to produce, and nobody changed the system. What Lake City Area Schools discovered — through honest self-examination, disciplined sequencing, and a refusal to mistake movement for progress — is that real transformation requires a different kind of courage than most improvement efforts demand. Not the courage to launch something new, but the courage to admit that the old system was working perfectly: producing disengagement on schedule, graduating students unprepared on time, and generating just enough compliance to keep the lights on. This is the story of what happens when a district decides that is not enough.

Join Rebecca Midles, Tim Hejnal and Meghan Utech to learn more.

Transformation Journey: Lake City Area Schools with Tim Hejnal and Meghan Utech

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Tom Vander Ark speaks with Stephanie Reisner and Steph Loeck of GPS Education Partners about how work-based learning can transform student engagement, career readiness, and economic mobility. Drawing on 25 years of experience and their new book, Make School Work, they explore what makes work-based learning truly high quality, why employer preparation matters as much as student preparation, and how regional ecosystems can scale meaningful career-connected learning opportunities for more young people.

Outline
 * (00:00) Introduction
 * (08:53) Defining High-Quality Work-Based Learning
 * (11:26) Make School Work: The Book & Framework
 * (21:58) Employer Partnerships & Regional Ecosystems
 * (29:28) Metrics & Advice for Ed Leaders

Links
 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4RLxERXv-o]
 * Stephanie Reisner [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-reisner-wblforall/]
 * Steph Loeck [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanieloeck/]
 * GPS Education Partners [https://gpsed.org/]
 * Make School Work [https://makeschoolwork.org/]



What Do Meaningful Work Based Learning Experiences Look Like At Scale? | Stephanie Reisner and Steph Loeck

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen sits down with Vriti Saraf, CEO of Ed3, to explore a timely and essential question: How do we move from using AI for efficiency to using AI for human flourishing in education? Drawing on Ed3's new research, The Emerging Role of Teachers in the Age of AI, the conversation examines how artificial intelligence is already reshaping teaching, why the future of education must center human relationships, and what new teacher personas—like learning architect, life navigator, and community connector—might emerge in more adaptive, student-centered systems. Together, Nate and Vriti unpack the risks of automation, the promise of redesigned educator roles, and why this moment demands not just better tools, but a bold rethinking of teaching, learning, and equity.

Outline
 * (0:00) Introduction & Topic Overview
 * (4:19) Genesis of the Portrait of a Teacher Project
 * (14:57) AI's Impact on Human Connection & Teacher Relationships
 * (22:23) Future Teacher Personas & Role Specialization
 * (39:30) Hopes for the Future of Education

Links
 * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/vriti-saraf/]
 * Ed3 [https://www.ed3global.org/]
 * The Emerging Role of Teachers in the Age of AI [https://www.ed3global.org/the-emerging-role-of-teachers-in-the-age-of-ai]



How Can We Reimagine the Teacher's Role for the AI Age? | Vriti Saraf

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Nate McClennen sits down with Gianna Biaggi, founder and executive director of the Magnolia Project, to explore how schools can treat the community as campus. Together, they discuss how Magnolia Project connects middle and high school students with local mentors through immersive, hands-on learning experiences that build agency, engagement, and career awareness. From rural partnerships to durable skills to the power of reflection, this conversation highlights a compelling model for expanding real-world learning and helping every student imagine a future that fits who they are.

Outline
 * (00:00) Introduction & Expanded Learning
 * (02:01) Gianna's Story: From Teacher to Founder
 * (05:59) Building the Magnolia Project
 * (12:00) The Program Model
 * (21:18) Durable Skills & Student Outcomes
 * (34:06) Lessons Learned & What's Next

Links
 * Watch the full video here [http://youtube.com/watch?v=vzWUQM77Vw8&feature=youtu.be]
 * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gianna-biaggi-2926b223b/]
 * Magnolia Project [https://www.magnolia-project.org/about-us]
 * Magnolia Project's programs in Tomales [https://l.gourl.es/l/c47be8ef7a21d0b4724e0a9b1a625e874df73c0e?w=bWFzb25AZ2V0dGluZ3NtYXJ0LmNvbQ&u=12042186]
 * Dream BIG: The Power of On-Campus Career Exploration [https://l.gourl.es/l/63da83d7544c2d192aa888905dfc13ddad6a925a?w=bWFzb25AZ2V0dGluZ3NtYXJ0LmNvbQ&u=12042186]
 * Middle School Visit Day Teacher and Student Panel [https://l.gourl.es/l/5369b484799634cd5206033d421d89110ee0a2b2?w=bWFzb25AZ2V0dGluZ3NtYXJ0LmNvbQ&u=12042186]



How is The Magnolia Project Changing Education? | Gianna Biaggi

Students at Wellesley High School are helping imagine what learning could look like in 2040. In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Mason Pashia talks with Alty and Anaya, two learners from the school's Evolutions (EVOLS) program, about designing future-ready classrooms, visiting innovative schools, and building skills through hands-on, project-based experiences. From CTE-inspired spaces and collaborative learning environments to student voice and public speaking, this conversation offers a powerful look at what happens when young people are invited to help shape the future of education.

Outline
 * (0:00) Introduction
 * (3:28) What Is Evolutions?
 * (6:54) School Visits & Inspiration
 * (8:40) Designing the Future of Education
 * (23:31) Student Voice & Changing Education

Links
 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7SGhLiDdcA]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/wellesly-high-school-students-on-reimagining-school-for-2040/]
 * Wellesley High School [https://wellesleyps.org/whs/]
 * Student Presentation [https://www.canva.com/design/DAG_whNHomo/CLCAdWq0rBWxbZwhqfT47w/view?utm_content=DAG_whNHomo&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link2&utm_source=uniquelinks&utlId=h6557f62aeb#22]



How Are Wellesley High School Students Designing the Future of School? | Wellsey High Students

This podcast highlights developing trends in K-12 education, postsecondary and
lifelong learning. Each week, Getting Smart team members interview students,
leading authors, experts and practitioners in research, tech, entrepreneurship
and leadership to bring listeners innovative and actionable strategies in
education leadership. This podcast is most frequently hosted by Tom Vander Ark
[https://twitter.com/tvanderark], CEO of Getting Smart
[https://gettingsmart.com]. Be sure to check out the Getting Smart Newsletter
[https://gettingsmart.com/newsletter] and Twitter Feed
[https://twitter.com/Getting_Smart] to stay on the cutting edge of innovations
in learning.

Mason

Shows