In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, host Victoria Andrews sits down with educational leaders BB Ntsakey and Kelly Niccolls to explore the transformative power of liberatory assessment. Discover how these innovative approaches move beyond traditional metrics to create personalized, student-centered learning experiences that emphasize growth and empowerment. By reimagining assessment as a tool for learning and liberation, educators can foster environments where students' unique strengths and potential are recognized and nurtured. Tune in to learn how you can implement these practices in your own educational context and the positive impact they can have on student engagement and achievement.

Outline



 * (00:00) Introduction to the Podcast
 * (03:08) Liberatory Assessment Framework
 * (07:45) Innovative Assessment Practices at Misa
 * (15:20) Student-Centered Learning and Continuous Improvement
 * (19:29) Practical Steps for Teachers
 * (27:20)  Actionable Advice for Educators
 * (29:42) Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Links



 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzOg3YuMl1I]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/bb-ntsakey-and-kelly-niccolls-on-assessment-journeys/]
 * Kelly Niccolls LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kniccolls]
 * Bb Ntskaey LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/bbntsakey]
 * Mysa Microschool [https://mysaschool.org/]

How Can we Unlock The True Potential Of School Assessments? | BB Ntsakey & Kelly Niccolls

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, hosts Jordan Luster and Victoria Andrews delve into the critical aspects of sustainability within the microschool movement. They are joined by insightful leaders like Amar Kumar and Andrew Lee, who share their expertise on maintaining financial health, ensuring leadership succession, and prioritizing equity in education. Through candid discussions, the episode highlights how microschools, with their innovative and decentralized models, navigate challenges like budgeting, tuition setting, and creating inclusive environments. It’s a conversation not only about numbers but about sustaining passion and impact in education. Tune in to explore how these small-scale schools are making significant strides in shaping the future of learning.

Outline



 * (00:00) Introduction to the Getting Smart Podcast
 * (02:55) Insights from School Leaders
 * (09:42) Challenges and Future of Micro Schools
 * (15:38) Teacher Compensation and ESA's

Links



 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/voices-of-small-schools-podcast-sustainability/]
 * Andrew Lee | LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewleeofficial/]
 * Vita School of Innovation [https://vitahighschool.com/]
 * Amar Kumar | LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kumaramar/]
 * KaiPod Learning [https://www.kaipodlearning.com/]

 

Voices of Small Schools Podcast: Sustainability

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Tom Vander Ark engages in a thought-provoking discussion with Jamie Merisotis, CEO of the Lumina Foundation, about the evolving landscape of work and education in the age of artificial intelligence. As industries rapidly adopt AI technologies, Jamie shares insights on how human work is transforming and the crucial role of credentialing in ensuring economic prosperity. The conversation highlights the importance of redefining educational goals to include not only degrees but also valuable credentials that align with the demands of the modern workforce. Tune in to explore how AI is reshaping professions, why empathy and human skills remain essential, and how Lumina Foundation's ambitious goal aims to have 75% of the U.S. workforce equipped with meaningful credentials by 2040. This episode is a must-listen for educators, policymakers, and anyone interested in the future of work and education.

Outline 



 * (00:00) Introduction and Key Questions
 * (02:29) AI's Rapid Adoption and Implications
 * (07:38) Future of Work and Job Displacement
 * (10:58) Entrepreneurship in the Age of AI
 * (13:19) Higher Education's Role in the AI Era
 * (18:22) Redesigning Higher Education
 * (23:14) Lumina Foundation's Future Goals
 * (26:38) Conclusion and Acknowledgements

Links:



 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7GG4vLr8oc]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/auto-draft/]
 * Jamie Merisotis LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-merisotis-4799aa9]
 * Lumina Foundation [https://www.luminafoundation.org/]
 * New Lumina Vision [https://www.luminafoundation.org/news-and-views/a-bold-vision-for-a-prosperous-future/]
 * Human Work in the Age of Smart Machines [https://www.amazon.com/Human-Work-Age-Smart-Machines/dp/1948122626]
 * Diverse Teams Smart Tools Blog [https://www.gettingsmart.com/2023/03/30/new-problems-diverse-teams-smart-tools/]
 * National Council for Workforce Education [https://www.ncwe.org/]

What is Human Work in the Age of Smart Machines? | Jamie Merisotis

In this enlightening episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Tom Vander Ark and Dr. Kaleb Rashad engage in a thought-provoking dialogue with Dr. Michael Fullan, an internationally acclaimed advocate for deeper learning. Together, they explore whether deeper learning is the key to addressing the challenges and opportunities presented by the new age of AI. Dr. Fullan introduces the concept of "systemness," emphasizing the need for systemic change over isolated educational initiatives. The conversation covers the transformative progress in Anaheim, driven by the integration of systemness and the five Cs of compassionate learning. Tune in to discover how AI can be a powerful accelerator for education when underpinned by a strong pedagogical and cultural foundation, and what it means to cultivate spirit work in learning environments. This episode is a must-listen for educators, administrators, and anyone interested in the future of education and AI's role in it.

Outline



 * (00:00) Introduction to Deep Learning and AI
 * (02:30) Systemness: The Key to Educational Transformation
 * (05:55) Challenges and Successes in Anaheim
 * (08:52) The Impact of PISA and System Change
 * (10:13) Bottom-Up Change: Building Capacity from the Ground Up
 * (14:45) The Five Elements of Systemness
 * (17:30) AI in Education: Opportunities and Cautions
 * (21:14) Spirit Work and Collaboration
 * (31:35) Nuance in Leadership

Links



 * Watch the video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdv-ORjDBFQ]
 * Read the full blog [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/michael-fullan-on-leading-in-a-culture-of-change-2/]
 * Kaleb Rashad Linked In [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-kaleb-%E2%80%9Ckofi%E2%80%9D-rashad-78923471/]
 * Michael Fullan Press Kit [https://michaelfullan.ca/press-kit/]
 * Michael's Books Mentioned In This Episode
   * Leading in a Culture of Change [https://www.amazon.com/Leading-Culture-Change-Michael-Fullan/dp/1119595843/ref=asc_df_1119595843/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385709422286&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14519246674267445430&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033283&hvtargid=pla-853329594361&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=77500929254&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385709422286&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14519246674267445430&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033283&hvtargid=pla-853329594361]
   * The New Meaning of Educational Change 6th Edition [https://michaelfullan.ca/books/the-new-meaning-of-educational-change-6th-edition/]
   * Nuance: Why Some Leaders Succeed and Others Fail [https://www.amazon.com/Nuance-Some-Leaders-Succeed-Others/dp/1544309929/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0dTWuajp6gIVkYbACh0R8w9LEAAYASAAEgKCRPD_BwE&hvadid=410040995708&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9033250&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=17700625145006210983&hvtargid=kwd-298908651543&hydadcr=9333_11539890&keywords=michael+fullan&qid=1595711477&sr=8-4&tag=googhydr-20]
   * Coherence [https://www.amazon.com/Coherence-Drivers-Schools-Districts-Systems/dp/148336495X]
 * eKadence [https://auhsd.ekadence.com/]
 * Education Reima [https://edudownloads.azureedge.net/msdownloads/Microsoft-EducationReimagined-Paper.pdf]

Is Deeper Learning the Answer Uncertainty in the Age of AI? | Michael Fullan

In this episode of "Catching Up!", Mason and Nate dive into a vibrant discussion on the evolving landscape of education, focusing on how vibe coding, curiosity, and judgment are poised to redefine learning priorities. They explore the shifting dynamics of computer science education in the age of AI and highlight the importance of fostering experience-based learning opportunities across diverse educational geographies. From the intriguing concept of "Italian brain rot" to the challenges of expanding CTE programs in rural areas, this episode covers an array of thought-provoking topics. The hosts also discuss the role of curation in both digital and physical spaces, emphasizing its growing significance in the modern world. Tune in to discover insights and strategies for preparing students for a future where curiosity and creativity drive learning and innovation.



Join Mason and Nate as they catch up on these exciting developments and share their vision for fostering collaborative and innovative learning environments.



Outline



 * (00:00) Introduction to Vibe Coding and Curiosity
 * (01:53) Exploring AI and Vibe Coding
 * (07:13) AI's Impact on Research and Accuracy
 * (10:34) The Rise of Curation in Digital and Physical Spaces
 * (17:59) Deep Dive: Humans as Luxury Goods in the Age of AI
 * (29:34) Tracking Fitness and Reflection Practices
 * (33:13) AI and Learning Documentation
 * (41:22) Rural vs. Urban Education Experiences
 * (49:06) What’s That Song?

Links



 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuWDXobaN8U]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/catching-up-vibe-coding-curiosity-and-the-future-of-education/]
 * Gobekli [https://gobekli.io/]
 * Ripen [https://www.riipen.com/]
 * Solutions Journalism Network [https://www.solutionsjournalism.org/]
 * David Bornstein on On Being [https://onbeing.org/programs/david-bornstein-on-our-lives-with-the-news/]
 * Human Flourishing Program [https://hfh.fas.harvard.edu/about]
 * Art Museums and curation [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/22/arts/design/museum-curators-young.html?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email]
 * Humans as "Luxury Goods" in the age of AI [https://platforms.substack.com/p/humans-as-luxury-goods-in-the-age]
 * What is the State of CS Education in 2024? [https://csteachers.org/what-is-the-state-of-cs-education-in-2024/]

Catching Up! | Curation, Vibe Coding and New Priorities for Education

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, we delve into the transformative assessment practices of One Stone, a unique high school that prioritizes student agency and real-world skills. Host Victoria Andrews engages in an enlightening conversation with Celeste Bolin, Executive Director of One Stone, and students Sophie Gunther and Raya Naymik. They discuss the school's innovative approach to assessments, which emphasizes resilience, leadership, and the ability to "fail forward." By integrating students' diverse interests and lived experiences into the learning process, One Stone fosters a supportive environment where effort and growth are valued over traditional grading metrics. This episode offers valuable insights for educators, school leaders, and anyone interested in creating more human-centered, dynamic educational experiences.



Outline



 * (00:00) Introduction to the Getting Smart Podcast
 * (01:33) Sophie’s Athletic Journey and Learning
 * (03:38) Leadership and Learning at One Stone
 * (08:06) Raya’s Diverse Interests and Learning
 * (12:34) Contrasting Traditional and One Stone Assessments
 * (14:44) Celeste on One Stone’s Assessment Journey
 * (18:50) Student Agency in Assessment
 * (25:28) Addressing Student Anxiety in Assessments
 * (31:07) Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Links



 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xahYLiJzodk]
 * Read the full blog [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/celeste-bolin-on-one-stone-assessment/]
 * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/celeste-bolin-phd-999949294]
 * One Stone [https://onestone.org/]
 * Growth Framework [https://onestone.org/high-school#disruption-blob]
 * One Stone Blog [https://onestone.org/one-stone-voice]
 * PBS Brief but Spectacular [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVOsuaVkllA&t=3s]

What Does Rethinking Assessment Look Like? | One Stone

Join Shawnee Caruthers and Carlos Moreno in an enlightening conversation on the Getting Smart Podcast as they delve into the transformative power of leading with love, care, and vulnerability in education. This episode, recorded live at South by Southwest, explores the theme of Humanizing Pathways Leadership. Carlos Moreno, co-director of Big Picture Learning, shares his insights and experiences in empowering students and communities. With heartfelt stories and thought-provoking discussions on emotional intelligence and leadership, this episode is a must-listen for educators, leaders, and anyone passionate about creating impactful educational pathways. Discover how embracing emotional intelligence and community-focused leadership can redefine success in education. Tune in to learn more about how we can all contribute to a more inclusive and supportive learning environment. Read the full blog here: [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/getting-smart-and-carlos-moreno-live-from-sxsw/]

Outline



 * (00:00) Introduction to Storytelling and Change
 * (02:11) Humanizing Pathways Leadership
 * (04:50) Audience Interaction and Icebreakers
 * (08:24) Emotional Intelligence in Education
 * (12:17) Leadership Lessons and Personal Stories
 * (29:58) Building Trust and Respect in Education
 * (30:59) Navigating Emotions and Vulnerability
 * (34:42) The Role of Mentorship in Education
 * (41:24) Living by Your Values as a Leader
 * (47:24) The Importance of Relationships in Schools
 * (50:07) Counseling and Mentoring Educators
 * (56:48) Closing Thoughts and Future Actions

Getting Smart and Carlos Moreno: Live from SXSW

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, host Rebecca Midles delves into the essential competencies of modern-day leadership with Laura Hilger, Senior Director of Teaching and Learning at KnowledgeWorks. Joined by Carmen Coleman and Estrada, the conversation explores the development and impact of the Lead for Learners Network and the Portrait of a Leader. These initiatives aim to guide educational leaders towards sustainable change through personalized, competency-based learning. Discover how collaborative processes and strategic leadership development can drive transformation in educational systems, ensuring leaders are equipped to foster equitable, learner-centered environments. Tune in to learn about upcoming opportunities and insights into building robust leadership pipelines.

Outline



 * (00:00) Introduction to the Getting Smart Podcast
 * (02:36) Overview of the Lead for Learners Network
 * (04:46) Development of the Portrait of a Leader
 * (07:49) Collaborative Process Behind the Portrait
 * (10:58) Impact and Implementation in Local Contexts
 * (14:23) Sustainable Change and Leadership Development
 * (20:37) Reflective Practice and Professional Learning
 * (22:07) Upcoming Events and Opportunities

Links



 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6kvIdJ1rSY]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/what-are-the-key-competencies-of-a-modern-day-leader-laura-hilger/]
 * Laura Hilger LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-hilger-0a563459]
 * KnowledgeWorks [https://knowledgeworks.org/]
 * Laura Hilger X [https://x.com/hilgerl?mx=2]
 * KnowledgeWorks Youtube [https://www.youtube.com/@Knowledgeworks]
 * Lead for Learners [https://leadforlearners.org/about/network-leadership/]
 * Portrait of a Leader Aurora Institute [https://aurora-institute.org/cw_post/leadership-for-personalized-competency-based-learning]

What are The Key Competencies of a Modern Day Leader? | Laura Hilger, Carmen Coleman and Estrada

In this episode of "Catching Up!", hosts Mason and Nate dive into a lively discussion on the future of education, exploring how learning spaces, AI readiness, and global innovations are reshaping the landscape. From the creative redevelopment of community hubs in former malls to the pressing need for media literacy amidst a wave of information overload, this conversation covers a range of critical topics. They touch on the potential impacts of a new executive order on AI in education and the challenges facing early education systems. With insights from recent trips and conferences, including a poetic cultural journey through Ireland, this episode is packed with thoughtful reflections and forward-thinking ideas on how to best prepare students for an AI-driven world.



Join Mason and Nate as they catch up on these exciting developments and share their vision for fostering collaborative and innovative learning environments.



Outline



 * (00:00) Introduction and Catching Up
 * (01:18) Discussion on Music and Education
 * (03:43) Mall Redevelopment and Community Hubs
 * (06:43) Super Bloom and Media Theorist
 * (10:06) Media Literacy and Info Obesity
 * (12:47) America's Promise Alliance Research
 * (14:48) Executive Order on AI and Education
 * (19:57) Enrollment Issues in Public Schools
 * (25:15) Exploring Expanded Learning Ecosystems
 * (28:12) The Future of National Assessments
 * (32:12) Challenges in Early Education
 * (39:06) Cultural Insights from Ireland
 * (46:15) What’s That Song?

Links

 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_sZwdgnn8]
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/catching-up-enrollment-challenges-media-literacy-and-insights-from-masons-trip/]
 * Mall redevelopment - OKC [https://www.yahoo.com/news/crossroads-mall-owners-redevelopment-plans-114028906.html]
 * America’s Abandoned Malls [https://www.ipx1031.com/americas-abandoned-malls-data-2023/]
 * Drop The Slop [http://www.droptheslop.com]
 * AI Executive Order [https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2025/04/22/ai-schools-executive-order-trump-draft/]
 * America’s Promise [https://americaspromise.org/research/]
 * How can we reimagine where learning happens?  [https://www.gettingsmart.com/2025/04/17/reimagining-where-learning-happens-schools-as-community-hubs-within-a-personalized-ecosystem/]
 * Montana Assements  [https://opi.mt.gov/Leadership/Assessment-Accountability/Montana-Aligned-to-Standards-Through-Year]
 * The Limitations of Through-Year Assessments [https://www.future-ed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/The-Limitations-of-Through-Year-Assessments.pdf]

Catching Up! | Shifting Enrollment, Dead Malls, and Community Hubs

In this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast, Tom Vander Ark is joined by Kathleen deLaski, author of "Who Needs College Anymore?" to explore the ever-evolving landscape of higher education. DeLaski challenges traditional views on college education, delving into how the rise of alternative pathways like apprenticeships and dual enrollment are reshaping post-secondary education. They discuss the implications of the Great Recession, the impact of AI, and the role of experience as the new "silver bullet" in career advancement. Tune in to discover why the four-year degree might not be the only or best option for today's learners and how these changes are influencing the future of work and education.

Outline

 * (00:00) Introduction: Who Needs College Anymore?
 * (02:34) The Changing Perception of Higher Education
 * (04:27) The Great Recession's Impact on College Value
 * (07:21) Is College for All Dead?
 * (09:25) Who Needs College? Exploring Different Personas
 * (14:17) The Rise and Fall of Bootcamps and MOOCs
 * (20:45) The Future of Apprenticeships
 * (24:03) The Step Ladder Approach to Higher Education
 * (28:43) AI and the Future of Higher Education

Links
 * Read the full blog here [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/kathleen-delaski-on-who-needs-college-anymore/]
 * Watch the full video here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax68UKic9C4]
 * Who Needs College Anymore? [https://www.whoneedscollegeanymore.org/]
 * LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleen-delaski-1089012b/]
 * Substack [https://kathleendelaski.substack.com/]
 * Education Design Lab [https://eddesignlab.org/]
 * deLaski Family Foundation [https://www.delaskifamilyfoundation.org/]
 * Blog on the Northeastern Co-op Model [https://www.gettingsmart.com/2024/11/19/impact-projects-at-northeastern-university/]
 * Riipen [https://www.riipen.com/]
 * Ryan Craig on Apprenticeships [https://www.gettingsmart.com/podcast/ryan-craig-on-ai-apprenticeships-and-the-experience-gap/]
 * Reach University [https://reach.edu/]

 

Who needs college anymore? | Kathleen DeLaski

This podcast highlights developing trends in K-12 education, postsecondary and
lifelong learning. Each week, Getting Smart team members interview students,
leading authors, experts and practitioners in research, tech, entrepreneurship
and leadership to bring listeners innovative and actionable strategies in
education leadership. This podcast is most frequently hosted by Tom Vander Ark
[https://twitter.com/tvanderark], CEO of Getting Smart
[https://gettingsmart.com]. Be sure to check out the Getting Smart Newsletter
[https://gettingsmart.com/newsletter] and Twitter Feed
[https://twitter.com/Getting_Smart] to stay on the cutting edge of innovations
in learning.

Mason

Shows