This week we tried (unsuccessfully, messily, hauntingly) to mate a canary with a cockerel – all in a bid to impress our guest, former Norwich and Tottenham footballer, turned performance psychologist, Paul McVeigh. 

Having played more than 270 professional games, as well as earning 20 caps for Northern Ireland, Paul kicked ball with and against some legendary players, earning a few trophies, a few promotions and, perhaps the ultimate honour, his own song.

But rather than go off and do the sort of generic post-playing jobs many ex-pros go for (like moaning about stuff on the tv. Or moaning about stuff on the radio. Or moaning about stuff on a podcast etc.) Paul has bottled up all his remarkable experiences in sport and used them to help all kinds of leaders to perform when it matters most.

As a highly respected performance psychologist, Paul has built a super-successful second career out of helping to dismantle the old narratives about shouty, macho, ego-driven leadership, through his coaching and his two excellent books: ‘The Stupid Footballer is Dead’ and ‘It’s Not About You: The Psychology of Leadership.

 In a chat where Giles tries really, really hard not to dribble ‘Spurs’ all over the conversation, we ponder the most common mistakes, and misunderstanding, when it comes to ‘being the boss’, and some of the most influential sporting figures who inspired Paul’s philosophies on leadership. 

 This episode is proudly dedicated to Paul’s Aunt Jean – proof that it’s never too late to reinvent yourself and that anything is possible.

Follow Paul [https://www.linkedin.com/in/the-paul-mcveigh/] on LinkedIn

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Timestamps

1:32 – Quick Fire Questions
5:37 – Leaving Belfast for Tottenham Hotspur
10:05 – Inside a High-Performance Environment
16:03 – Leadership Styles in Football
19:12 – It’s Not About You and Modern Leadership
24:21 – Leadership Beyond Football
27:25 – Humility and Misconceptions About Leadership
33:18 – Ahead-of-the-Curve Professional Habits
39:58 – Transformational Habits That Stick
42:52 – Advice to His Younger Self

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Paul’s book recommendations are:

Awaken The Giant Within [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Awaken-Giant-Within-Immediate-Emotional/dp/0743409388] by Anthony Robbins
Money Master the Game [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Money-Master-Game-Financial-Freedom/dp/147114335X/ref=asc_df_147114335X?mcid=0481de9f3c9b329c9d99b213af6b19ea&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697264028800&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3914958329491935457&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046121&hvtargid=pla-404289630190&psc=1&hvocijid=3914958329491935457-147114335X-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1] by Anthony Robbins

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173: Paul McVeigh on football, psychology and leading without ego

This week we made our way through twenty rolls of ‘Word a Day’ toilet paper – not (entirely) because of tummy trouble, but in order to impress one of the world’s greatest wielders of words, copywriting legend Tim Delaney.

An advertiser who made all of advertising try harder with their adverts, Tim is of course the founder of the famous Leagas Delaney agency as well as being one of the all-time great copywriters. 

You’ll no doubt have spent much time gawping at and/or weeping over some of his most iconic work – including some extraordinary campaigns for Harrods, Adidas and Nationwide. He’s also the creative brain behind the unforgettable ‘Perfect Day’ film for the BBC – giving the world the briefest sniff of what a Bowie/Boyzone collaboration might have been.

Wildly successful in both the building of an agency and the writing of copy, Tim is also one of advertising’s most compelling talkers of sense – with a philosophy built around strategic thinking, disciplined work and a healthy appreciation for the value of intuition.

In a chat where we skid quickly and wildly away from what we laughably called ‘the agenda’, Tim takes us on an entertaining and eye-opening journey through one of the most remarkable lives in the creativity game.
 
This episode is proudly dedicated to Tom Harrington.

Follow Tim [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-delaney-8812ab40/] on LinkedIn
 
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Timestamps
 
04:40 - First Job in Advertising
06:45 - Transitioning to Copywriting
09:40 - Early Days in Advertising
12:49 - The Band Experience
14:03 - From Music to Advertising
19:07 - Climbing the Advertising Ladder
22:11 - The Role of Creativity in Advertising
29:03 - Challenges at BNP
30:41 - Understanding Advertising's Mystique
34:08 - The Impact of Technology on Advertising
39:39 - Enthusiasm for Newcomers
43:53 - Advice for Junior Copywriters



172: Tim Delaney on building one of ad-land’s most brilliant careers

This week we’ve been out every night, committing crimes (twocking Nokias, cussing at ducklings, stealing the dust caps off your dad’s tyres) all to attract the attention of South-London Batman himself – and this week’s guest – Kazeem Jama. 

A comedian so entertaining he almost makes you hate yourself slightly less for being on Instagram all the goddam time, Kazeem has been liberally lubricating the amusement pipes on the BBC, Comedy Central and the Mobo Awards.

Before comedy grabbed him by the earlobe and dragged him over to the funny side, Kazeem spent decades working in the education sector, primarily with children with special needs and in alternative education – making him humorous and kind-hearted enough to make us all feel really bad about our own decisions, especially the terrible stuff we said to those ducklings. 

This episode is proudly dedicated to the people who shaped Kazeem: his mum, his dad, his kids, and all the doubters along the way.

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Follow Kazeem on Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/kazeem.jamal/] and Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/kazeemjamalcomedy/?ref=_xav_ig_profile_page_web]
Watch the videos that has us cracking up: Frozen [https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFcfZ3xoIZh/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link] and Waze [https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHwJhO0o5xu/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link]
Sign up to the mailing list [https://gmail.us10.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=2e6688d6f42b182e3d460c14a&id=d840020c81]
To go see him live: tickets here [https://linktr.ee/kazeemjamal?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAacFWDQ03S0vXyRXCT3XgmcbqBbULl_-MlcFg8vafe-2cYSvAUuFK5NAx05fHg_aem_k6LXRzFldRDompHoUxfdWw].

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Timestamps

02:50 - Kazim's Uncommon Path: From Rugby to Comedy
07:51 - Ownership: The Key to Kazim's Comedy Journey
11:26 - Drama Class: The Shy Comedian's Dilemma
12:52 - Channelling Frustration: The Sports Outlet
18:30 - Stage vs. Socials: The Comedy Landscape
21:26 - Navigating Tough Topics: Kazim's Approach
27:06 - The Unexpected Funeral Laugh
31:03 - Nine-to-Five vs. Comedy Dreams: The Struggle
34:08 - Attention, Skill, Monetizing: The Comedy Cycle
39:03 - The Art of Not Giving a Damn: Embracing the Process
42:48 - Comedy Contracts: The Safe Space Agreement



171: Kazeem Jamal on the importance of finding the funny side

This week we rented the top 3 maths movies of all time – A Beautiful Mind, The Imitation Game and 3 Men and a Baby – all in order to be mathematically competent enough to share a pod with one of the world’s greatest number nibblers, Marcus du Sautoy.

So highly acclaimed and awarded, we could have filled the entire podcast by listing out his many achievements, Marcus is perhaps best known as a Professor in Mathematics, Fellow of the Royal Society and Simonyi Professor for the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University.

But, as well as being one of the very smartest people on the planet, he’s also one of the most engaging and enlightening speakers on the unexpected stories to be found in numbers, having written for several national newspapers and appeared on a number of mathematically-inclined TV shows including Mind Games, The Story of Maths and The Code (not to be confused with The Cube).

By now you’ve probably run out of fingers to tally up all the brilliant things he’s done, so we shall just wrap up by saying he’s also the author of a series of superb books examining the relationship between maths, creativity, music, games and more – including Blue Prints, The Music of Primes and The Creativity Code. 

(Basically, the fact that it took us all this time to mention he’s also an OBE tells you all you need to know. He’s an impressive dude.)

In an episode where Giles wears his disappointing GCSE results like a hi-vis vest of inadequacy, we ponder the search for meaning in numbers and how the stories behind them can help shape ideas and solve problems. 
 
 This episode is proudly dedicated to Mr Baleson. 

Follow Marcus [https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcus-du-sautoy/] on LinkedIn

/////


Timestamps

04:17 - The Influence of a Great Teacher
 06:03 - Mathematics as a Language and Creative Outlet
 08:44 - The Intersection of Mathematics and the Arts
 12:08 - Exploring Creativity in Mathematics
 15:17 - The Relationship Between Structure and Artistic Expression
 21:10 - The Cicada's Prime Number Life Cycle
 30:51 - Patterns and Expectations in Art and Comedy
 33:09 - The Role of Mathematics in Problem Solving
 43:15 - The Importance of Storytelling in Science
 46:25 - The Search for Meaning in Numbers
 48:13 - The Dual Nature of Scientific Thinking

 Marcus’ Book recommendations are:

A Mathematician’s Apology [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mathematicians-Apology-G-H-Hardy/dp/9388318145/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1VP64COGBBNRW&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.U3eet2EYyvX5oe7ZL7iQ9gFz0B_waBUI8oJC79nD7o-yojGozrRmFnSBVgqXXCisKFLMzM4KeoTFhIV0eBz-pGhtHq9L1V-BdUV_yLisYD0YGWNyBO9rUAJOtB4xX19kk2OGnDFIBXrPfz2CmQJOJORJO4WbhSjpQdlNa_NG7mK4Hsjzd4tkN6ksD-5m9_5mZZjL1cukP7T3cWqoAGFUO8oR8NqzIFWEhlp1nKhkZDM.4iz8iB3N83igeKR1lyhsiYzoq6Bq9RJF8gb2leYIcOw&dib_tag=se&keywords=A+Mathematician%27s+Apology&qid=1757409507&sprefix=a+mathematician%27s+apology%2Caps%2C105&sr=8-3] by G.H. Hardy
 
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170: Marcus du Sautoy on how to see the stories in numbers

This week we broke a golden rule and crossed podcast streams with a pair of excellent guests, Richard Shotton and MichaelAaron Flicker, hosts of the Behavioural Science for Brands podcast and co-authors of the soon-to-be released (and definitely-to-be brilliant) Hacking The Human Mind.

Richard is, of course, returning for a record third appearance on Call To Action® although we have respectfully honoured his request to not be left alone with Giles. Responsible for opening industry eyes to the potential of behavioural science, Richard is the author of two books that serious marketing types like you and I could not do without – The Choice Factory and The Illusion of Choice.

Alongside him today, as is so often the case, is MichaelAaron Flicker, founder and president of (Zeeenno-Sigh) XenoPsi Ventures, a brand incubator firm that helps out all kinds of companies with financial, marketing and intellectual capital. As well as co-hosting their pod, and co-authoring their book, they’ve completed a hattrick of Co’s by co-founding the Consumer Behaviour Lab, where they apply their considerable collective knowledge to help make marketing smarter, better and less stinky.

In an episode where we open the sunroof on the human mind and reveal there’s much more to it than day dreams, crippling doubt and song lyrics from 1996, we hear from two of the field’s most compelling experts on what it really takes for a brand to be chosen.

This episode is proudly dedicated to Rory Sutherland.
 
 Follow Richard [https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-shotton/] and MichaelAaron [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelaaron-flicker/] on LinkedIn.
 
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Timestamps

08:27 - Reflections on Career Path and Pivots
10:09 - Richard's Tribute to Ozzy Osbourne
12:39 - How Richard and Michael Met
14:22 - The Concept Behind Their New Book
16:01 - Writing Process and Collaboration Insights
20:21 - Discussion on Haagen-Dazs and Country of Origin Effect
25:04 - The Power of Naming: Patagonian Toothfish vs. Chilean Sea Bass
30:07 - Marketing Confusion Between Marketing and Sales

Their Book Recommendations are:

Alchemy [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alchemy-Original-Thinking-Mind-Numbing-Conformity/dp/0753556529/ref=sr_1_1?crid=HEVXE46J6S5&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.yuIt7AXfDuRfCAVlniNUxlIq3UXOhQEMQIyV9ivJpHvtsOhOc9_46f4EZiLgiBcBcfBNEuYe3k17TN4SSOXTaYJ5XNXtvgOa5cVGGwt7UVkrXp8Z1eWWYXwFHBIJse7G8oxE2PFL5jZEczlJ4WUT8ymQGS21IzpVipHWy2q-ZQ4eL05vgZLt9uGyfsQCOlwrXvJ-lxUffTNjBOjYK3_ezA.4URjjzY69y2qHnJEFD5vN1znAdmmYTE3lajEkDNKQg8&dib_tag=se&keywords=alchemy+rory+sutherland&qid=1755874902&sprefix=alchemy%2Caps%2C86&sr=8-1] by Rory Sutherland
Tiny Habits [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiny-Habits-Changes-Change-Everything/dp/0753553244/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3BR9W98Q19SC1&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.8a0zBJW0wTJ93-cEchRf5z7T3889nDFc-aGf91NxfO9r1tY3fuXBAvk_zkElddo1_8vxDnGgRarU_fp9QzELsssJXNu2OulrYSpOhklk07hNbqUHwXMEHhlENqavAUoPDHb_KkYDSrxfm8hKji96D4HnAFHFZrrHUiT6SoDQgjYIzNaH4iIAaV6Q0Ud1zp_MqtLbWA-RoYDbEOmXEe5KZAutbJ3d5jkagUWQwc4XZn0.Rzr0RBw15JE5dBNS7ysg4T1QgmFYzF9DB08WtxDRk5A&dib_tag=se&keywords=tiny+habits+bj+fogg+book&qid=1755874919&sprefix=tiny+habits%2Caps%2C79&sr=8-1] by BJ Fogg

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169: Richard Shotton and MichaelAaron Flicker on hacking the human mind.

This week we tucked in our shirt, straightened our tie and resisted the temptation to nip off for a quick vape behind the pickle-ball court, all in order to suitably impress our guest, one of the world’s greatest marketing academics, Professor Byron Sharp. 

A man who would need no introduction (if we weren’t contractually obliged to provide all our pod guests with one) Prof Byron is one of the world’s most respected thinkers in the field of brands and consumer behaviour.

Unless you’re deliberately trying to get yourself fired from your marketing role, you’ll no doubt have read his seminal book ‘How Brands Grow’ and, if you’re especially lucky, you may well have learned directly from the man himself in one of his globally prestigious academic roles. 

A speaker, a teacher, a thinker and a pioneering researcher, Byron still has the time to be a thoroughly entertaining podcast guest, and is famously happy to share the kind of knee-buckling market truth that the industry fears but also really, really needs.

In an episode where Byron jabs a scholarly finger into the flabby thinking that holds brands back, we ponder the many different disciplines a proper marketer should be able to wrap their heads around if they want a consumer to care.

This episode is proudly dedicated to John Scriven. 

Follow Byron [https://www.linkedin.com/in/professorbyronsharp/] on LinkedIn

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Timestamps

03:27 - Early Jobs and Academia
04:38 - The Importance of Real-World Experience
06:09 - Working with Andrew Ehrenberg
08:28 - The Intent Behind "How Brands Grow"
09:41 - Marketing Blind Spots and Unexplored Areas
10:30 - Cognitive Biases and Behavioral Science
11:48 - The Role of Heuristics in Consumer Behavior
12:43 - Understanding Double Jeopardy Law
14:08 - Consumer Efficiency vs. Laziness
15:26 - Predictive Power of Marketing Science
16:06 - The Weirdness of the Real World
17:37 - Misconceptions About Marketing Science
19:40 - The Role of Synthetic Research
32:58 - B2B Marketing and Growth Strategies
35:22 - The Value of Awards in Marketing

Byron's Book recommendations are:

The Halo Effect [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Halo-Effect-Managers-Themselves-Deceived/dp/1471137163/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1ZCX33QMWVQ2O&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.W5fq8_npkqitt5mdkO4_AfAeGifvMdgBjXVxQzB8Mrr9Fi2qvAZyoBpIwnoVnTP1ShisQozKKNHdVAFOCvPqGrftAZjDNzyktSWSeYQGR62CoJTgVqdCmgqVh5Ss7cxeZzUDXsssttk-0CtPTSbygx5LMBME76kM5tHjDpkMwrBy2FOtVqHm8twEHYxkrK2Pp1mS2EGqkpDkbNqqveDfRy0xLIFyl62MGboHVMg_tbQ.aAQezhVXc3axq0eORoXeXM4lV7iQ0qU44XrGEzT_Vbs&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+halo+effect&qid=1754921643&sprefix=the+halo+effect%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-2] by Phil Rosenzweig
Everything is Obvious [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-Obvious-Common-Sense-Nonsense/dp/184887216X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=38WVP8DQ0CDDZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1TZ4bhep_c_hB_TsQsiYqJrmE5mQlqljOK17y9MLyLJy2c2IEday1NrLdZUFHqsX2KDB4yS8YhUICUr-l60_gO7NA2ZtjUpGCNDuMboI0B_494_SWrVm3HD1JotsHFD03xTn9UgqTuQM8futuSXj5KwhE3rMSXjGUvO8_KrQqk5VqVeLGvOVQGqawxdpmu24kQSpHrreItR_TBU0uSnnZ7DXRm_5ijWI36yNMGZSPwE.vBFmFxZZZu_Exdw25-KEy5P8FYxFn0kw0fmy7t1Ml2w&dib_tag=se&keywords=duncan+watts&qid=1754921715&sprefix=duncan+watts%2Caps%2C85&sr=8-1] by Duncan Watts


168: Professor Byron Sharp on a lifetime of learning in the marketing world

This week we’re pushing our withered hamstrings way beyond their wretched limits, all in order to win the attention of our guest, sport and brand marketing super-baller Lisa Parfitt. 

In a career that has been, figuratively, one top bin after the other, Lisa has done more than most to give women’s sport a serious platform, particularly when it comes to those all-important commercial relationships. 

A star player in the efforts to land the Women’s FA Cup their first brand sponsorship, Lisa can be found on the prestigious pages of PR Week’s Power 100 for her work in pushing for greater representation for women in the sports business. 

Having gone toe-to-toe with the inequalities in the game in her time as both a Level 1 coach and director, she now devotes her considerable skills and stamina to creating better, fairer and more sustainable partnerships, sponsorships and culture in the game.

In an episode with absolutely no time wasting, even for the occasional glug of branded energy pop, we ponder everything from the unique brand value of fans of women sport, to how the game is changing, in both sporting and commercial ways.

This episode is proudly dedicated to Karen Earl.
 
Follow Lisa [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-parfitt-7929076/?original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo%2Ecom%2F&originalSubdomain=uk]on LinkedIn.

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Timestamps

04:34 - Transitioning to the Sports Industry
10:31 - First Job in Women's Sport
12:18 - The Shift to Sponsorship and Commercial Focus
15:32 - The Role of Brands in Women's Sport
20:10 - Securing the First Women's FA Cup Partnership
26:32 - The Impact of COVID on Women's Sport
30:35 - Research on Women's Sports Fans Engagement
36:59 - The Future of Women's Sport and Upcoming Events
42:06 - Changing Perceptions in Women's Sport

Lisa's Book Recommendations are:

Eat Sweat Play [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eat-Sweat-Play-Sport-Change/dp/1509808108/ref=sr_1_1?crid=U347Y2HQ537L&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.xCbEF0Pr5a6qPIVCijQiXMUt6yAcVIJTRU9-CKM1KeXGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps.rEBpq8FdwgmW-0pk3LzEhhqIaJ9hfpr3xvI3u85jWkA&dib_tag=se&keywords=Eat+Sweat+Play&qid=1753788376&sprefix=eat+sweat+play%2Caps%2C74&sr=8-1] - Anna Kessel
Why She Buys [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-She-Buys-Strategy-Consumers-ebook/dp/B002FQOHVK/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3A6JJD219SL01&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qVfEUgi5ME_IcX6_MbQ89f2l7dwCJ9Fk146XH3FlQs2M3fKGfBjNB7n6uEwkCkI7zebEjpwL_gpcgMX7_v10-fZseOWXlGtjpI1hKAMYoqZWyaKojL5RExsmErBcJQCXh7voa6OBMUKNPIXXumwtknVj_-Sm6xoIms6UkJP7-3YL1FK_hREiLGU3QrFDGHaOmEIMymcAZTsBXky8kdvurA.Q1iXYqVnlpa7Yl4qZpyfFO8g9xqf-y4hqVOiIqMvcF8&dib_tag=se&keywords=why+she+buys&qid=1753788414&sprefix=why+she+buys%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-1] - Bridget Brennan
Game On [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Game-Unstoppable-Rise-Womens-Sport/dp/1800180624/ref=sr_1_1?crid=41GMM2NHSSG3&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hV7V5TzPwIy8ZJ83o6jzPA8sDTXovS9PE7AhW8592V4.8xV65Ft8sThJYXNYy8PWvpW2OefpgKef7LhStG8Bfa0&dib_tag=se&keywords=game+on+sue+anstiss&qid=1753788441&sprefix=game+on+s%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-1] - Sue Anstiss

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167: Lisa Parfitt on doing the business for women’s sport. 

This week we made difficult phone-calls to Ant & Dec, Torvill & Dean and, accidentally, the Neville Brothers, all in order to explain that the nation now has a new favourite double act – the joint chiefs of Pablo, Harriet Knight and Hannah Penn.

Not content with leading Pablo to the very top of the creative charts in agency land – scooping up the Global Campaign Indie of the Year award on two separate occasions – H&H have set about tearing up the dusty old rulebook for agency leadership (especially all those pages about being greedy and horrible). They’ve poured their considerable energies into actually delivering the kind of culture every agency pretends they have, and even launched the Pablo Living Wage, a £30,000 minimum salary for entry level roles that opens up the industry to people who are usually left on the side-lines. 

As well as turning Pablo into the creative, and cultural envy of agency world, Harriet and Hannah are also responsible for one of the most successful agency models around – earning a reputation for being superb to work with that translates into a barely believable 100% client retention rate.  

In an episode that puts us all in the uncomfortable position of listening to agency bosses who are actually likeable and amusing, we ponder everything from how agency cultures are created to the dynamics that make their partnership tick. 

This episode is proudly dedicated to Dan Watts.
 
 Follow Hannah [https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-penn-39295836/] and Harriet [https://www.linkedin.com/in/harriet-knight-08570527/] on LinkedIn.

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Timestamps

03:00 - Early Career Paths: Hannah's Journey
09:00 - Harriet's Background and Transition to Advertising
15:00 - The Importance of Diverse Experiences in Advertising
18:00 - Creative and Commercial Balance in Advertising
22:00 - How Harriet and Hannah Met
25:00 - The Dynamics of Their Partnership
29:00 - Legacy and Impact in the Advertising Industry


Hannah and Harriet’s Book Recommendations are:

Four Thousand Weeks [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Four-Thousand-Weeks-Embrace-limits/dp/1784704008/ref=sr_1_1?crid=ISC4PCL0N667&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.kQeekXDOMx7ZxuzKQlr6Xn7qWu3FA8fuWASIkwPsUQ2U_R8aUG9pamlTSoRWhi9AlPSGz08YE3KVDmDARN2S6aHwLwfk2HHUTBbnb1LnevocV3ttTGIW_1Rz7R5ElWkM46o7034n_9Xa8_UMmR5_xDIi8OnMClCxkRULkVnRy6fH6sKNxSZm5pRxIMhwsjAw3t2Z7BjVx_XIEylYvMPt-Y39FxdakGjY8bdVR9bss0w.AyOLaIrtYe1SGrY50tnGz0M_WDktHkH4SJicLU6E0nA&dib_tag=se&keywords=4000+weeks+oliver+burkeman&qid=1752671986&sprefix=4000+weeks%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-1]– Oliver Burkeman
Cork Dork [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cork-Dork-Wine-Fuelled-Journey-Sommeliers/dp/1760632201/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3D1Z8R1X2HN31&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.3UTd5YPXzmLvlH_CKy0kx3upk9myKD4hccqm8bH3zBN7ivdZ7FnUcKim2D8UvpxC.Tb9oC3Z1cwjcccSJdFvRFdN_3mHzU8LyoynEhYFiOSw&dib_tag=se&keywords=cork+dork+by+bianca+bosker&qid=1752672155&sprefix=Cork+Dork%2Caps%2C99&sr=8-1] – Bianca Bosko
Super Communicators [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Supercommunicators-Unlock-Secret-Language-Connection/dp/1847943640/ref=sr_1_1?crid=N0IOA217P4Z&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.wo5CyVeByqAtmYse9Vr38IxsM1ckA0hXoBcW8XA28onjN5Hgu1HQ9DfggrodY5-V0atd7YGRJn_xPBi4OekMA88GiEVGEN8NqibcXxifiPCQ6XssOfcyP1zQYMbmtiZONZdxkT3KbLxRvN1UdW7X1Q.DBY7k6zc0Q9glS2Fa-9CMaxiIdLGQNCAeo-SBKEwjt0&dib_tag=se&keywords=super+communicators+charles+duhigg&qid=1752672353&sprefix=Super+Communicators+by+Charles+Duhigg%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-1]- Charles Duhigg

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166: Harriet Knight and Hannah Penn on an agency world that’s open to all

This week we tried to arrange a VIP brand event for Call To Action® fans in an abandoned toilet brush factory, all just to prove our cool credentials to Charlie Copsey, the founder of Underground Fan Club.

Having conquered the media mountain earlier in her career – working in TV, radio and film with the likes of Johnny Vaughan and her good pal Colin Murray – Charlie realised that her next great mission would be to rescue fan experiences from the desperately dull doldrums they were in at the time. From there Underground Fan Club was born – a studio devoted to producing more memorable, more believable and more exciting experiences between brands, fans and talent. At the heart of the mission is something many marketers bang on about with no clue, or care, about what it means in reality – authentic connections with your most valuable audience, something Charlie is already proving to be much more than the same old brand baloney.  There’s an increasingly long line of brands queuing up for the Underground treatment but luckily for your ears and brains, CTA is nothing if not a queue jumper. 

In an episode that’s all about fans, super-fans, stan-fans and ceiling fans (not that one) we learn what it takes for your brand to actually mean something more to the people you’re doing it all for.

This episode is proudly dedicated to Colin Murray.
 
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 04:09 - Studying Drama at Loughborough
 10:12 - Working with Johnny Vaughan
 12:28 - The Evolution of Fighting Talk and Live Events
 16:38 - Identifying the Gap: Connecting Talent and Fans
 17:52 - Building Underground Fan Club: The First Event
 20:32 - The Importance of Authentic Experiences
 22:21 - Navigating Brand Partnerships
 26:13 - Finding the Right Brand Partners
 28:05 - Balancing Involvement in Events
 32:29 - The Challenges of Running a Business

Charlie’s Book Recommendations are:

Careless People [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Careless-People-Cautionary-Power-Idealism/dp/1250391237/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1RNUTA8RED8R9&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.WU_pyoJakaQGiC0IlbSAlQNxXvyH9ZKmiIk_dgY5lAcP76IJeo9RUMDmUm0WJH9l9WqIeTwtyPc5Fv8U9NZtKAa-0DZQxUm6uKM1srMOdDVjR1-vCV1loK3pqHmveQikYPH_TEW-vUJNK8h0-EZSSsYhpbCnSFi80bSUObsICzcN8KJ7M19KaE-JouiLw434kgY7pzf9tB2iAXS8XRDL3o5_KdXXt7vLqrcjK_XGsGA.xUb4cEi_K2ZNqq67vYVj9xtDDVHqMq70WolhvXlgUKo&dib_tag=se&keywords=careless+people&qid=1751378811&sprefix=careless+people%2Caps%2C74&sr=8-4] - Sarah Wynn-Williams
Shoe Dog [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shoe-Dog-Memoir-Creator-NIKE/dp/1471146723/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3UCRFKI8BV5SO&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Wz2Eqws1Uowq1BcfBHdTrI-U-pmIrEq6syIGAv5xcI05vivOTjZ9imTZwYSeygdtx3Y_rmMhVifNZUcm2LkoAnbvj6RKdPGYDc9RYvsHqFw6GUM6Dc_X9enkEqJnkRh5J5lSpXMyfy1Uz-Al-s_oRR4BgZHQXI2B1LVR9KB41UON_mFsjEmaZ_v7hy-XAXckcBidYmUAMxuxEZO3y3RWRGFbibbw8yezLqBzka2bEEY.MZR8VpYzvWKj2dNx4zmEw5KJnMXvsRukPzoo3byaWL8&dib_tag=se&keywords=shoe+dog+phil+knight&qid=1751378865&sprefix=Shoe+dof%2Caps%2C76&sr=8-1] – Phil Knight 
Losing my Virginity [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Losing-My-Virginity-Survived-Business/dp/0307720748/ref=sr_1_2?crid=37J3T8WC73FFN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.2W9Au6SgCwSpC3nT_rD5aEwJv-MRdf6IKuGba73MikY0ueUO9g32SFQ-jVOJj4ijpbdSDES0OJBg_lCsLEjuyT4ksrSu9P0pz0mzZqm0nN2j84Z2n4VP5E0XwCOgB2Xaig1FVGdOlNlkZ0RTRXdYxp-Sg6PxPyiD6MOEcZsuoZjAtRDNZ8CIwUvuCV4CLbLMQHQH1ONRYdyqHf74vC1jGVcblemzsDKgBiRxYgvirD4.sMTL5EOUpu5eijzEvtRFPECMMx8jXpH0i1rEfVoy6V8&dib_tag=se&keywords=losing+my+virginity+richard+branson&qid=1751378894&sprefix=losing+my+%2Caps%2C73&sr=8-2] – Richard Branson

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165: Charlie Copsey on bringing fans experiences that aren’t f*ing boring

This week we kept shouting things like HIT ME! TWIST! GO FISH! WHAT’S A SPADE? In order to win the professional attention, and personal sympathy, of Jo Living – founder of ‘poker for business’ consultancy Aces High.

Having noticed that poker was less about bluff and bravado and more about strategy, empathy and teamwork, Jo realised it could be the perfect game for teaching people how to make smarter business decisions. From there she went on to run workshops teaching everything from communication and negotiation, to assertiveness and risk management, all done eye-to-eye through what she calls the ‘contact’ sport of poker.

It’s an episode where we try very hard not to say things about ‘laying the cards on the table’ (but probably won’t succeed) covering everything from the real-world value of a poker face to the power of a timely pause.
 
This episode is proudly dedicated to Adam Living.
 
 Follow Jo on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/joliving/].

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Timestamps

07:33 - Investment Banking Experience
10:32 - Quarter Life Crisis
15:47 - The Poker Environment
18:15 - Poker as a Game of Strategy
19:50 - Women in Poker
22:39 - Parallels Between Poker and Business
26:02 - Skills Developed Through Poker
29:02 - The Power of the Pause
31:37 - Identifying Leadership Traits
37:13 - Getting More Women at the Table
39:12 - Subtle Tells for Leadership

 Jo’s Book Recommendations are:

Thinking in Bets [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thinking-Bets-Making-Smarter-Decisions/dp/B078SFLXSX/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1P5GOSPLY51A4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9ha1IdV1YRlAzSNsI1kasC0q66FH9wwOrqKq58hK2IGz4lGT8xYkx9JoyyGjhrFwJPabqAUGdIaGxxqOhfWEK6Cvw2INsyABIL6LPzi6shCgqAMw2zg11mOTzh78N-fjM_rdBkUsx9JfFi1lzOs9UESI_n1gE_kYNnXqdGLiFjXzLW4B9-d547yPhT3ukjpU.hKkqJfTKKdO4LxcTAwvHEbocpdvfeWcpoAw5VMgdpto&dib_tag=se&keywords=thinking+in+bets+annie+duke&qid=1750239796&sprefix=thinking+in+bets+annie+duke%2Caps%2C69&sr=8-1] by Annie Duke

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164: Jo Living on how poker can make you better at business 

The go-to podcast for anyone trying to make sense of the world of Marketing, Advertising and beyond. In an industry that is a minefield of utter bollocks, we aim to capture our heroes and allies from the front line to have a chin-wag with. It’s like Pokémon Go, with the single but vital exception that it’s not a short-term bandwagon of shite. UK TOP 5 CHARTS | US TOP 200 CHARTS | RELEASED FORTNIGHTLY

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