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Ep 24: Doctor Sleep & The Shining
9 Plays5 years ago
We're back baby! Today's episode is about our experience of seeing Doctor Sleep in the context of The Shining.
If you want to watch the video version of this podcast head over to www.youtube.com/girlygore
If you have requests for future episodes or just want to hang out follow us on Instagram @sinistersisterspodcast
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Transcript
Return of Sinister Sisters Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
What's up, Weirdos? Welcome back to the Sinister Sisters podcast. I'm Felicia. And I'm Lauren. And we're best friends. And we talk about scary movies. It's true. And we took a month off. We took a month off and we're back. And we're back. We needed some resting time, some thinking time. October? October is crazy. October takes it out of us, I'll say. It does. That's why we had to take November off. That's right.
Discussing Dr. Sleep and The Shining
00:00:32
Speaker
And today we're talking about, so we both saw doctors sleep. Yes we did. That is what happened. Separately. Separately and also weeks after it came out.
00:00:43
Speaker
So personally, I was like, I don't want to do a review on it on my channel normally because it felt like I was too far behind. And so what we decided instead was to have a discussion about Dr. Sleep with the context of The Shining included and talk about both movies and all that. So that's what's happening. Yes. That is exactly what's happening. I was like, do I have anything to add? No. I should pull up also the doc. OK.
00:01:13
Speaker
So. Also, I'm gonna give us a hot fact to start out that I don't know. Oh, give us a hot fact. It is. The Shining was 1980, baby. 1980. Big year for movies. Big decade for movies. Big decade for movies. Shall I start? Yeah, just start. Okay, so we're gonna start with the fact that, okay, so we're not really gonna give plot with The Shining, right? I don't think we need to. I think everyone knows it. If you don't know it,
00:01:42
Speaker
maybe you shouldn't listen to this episode so the movie was notoriously hated by Stephen King yes we know this yes we feel differently some of us okay it's the shining is a lot of people's like top horror film yes like a lot of people because it is freaking beautiful it's shot amazing all the imagery is amazing the performances are iconic
00:02:07
Speaker
and sad, we'll get into that.
Stephen King's Views on The Shining
00:02:10
Speaker
But I think understandably so, Stephen King originally wrote a screenplay of The Shining and apparently Stanley Kubrick didn't even read it.
00:02:24
Speaker
didn't want to strike one strike one didn't want to be influenced no it's so he brought in I wrote her name Diane Johnson to write it with him and a lady a lady and so they really they went in and sort of did their own version of The Shining and Stephen King was very not involved there's some story about like
00:02:49
Speaker
Like Stanley Cooper called like asked him a question or something and like just the whole relationship between the two was Distant and bad throughout the past even King publicly talked and yes still talks about how much he doesn't like that movie Yes, and the main reason is because our main character Jack Torrance and the movie played by Jack Nicholson is supposed to be in the book a slow descent into madness and
00:03:13
Speaker
Alcoholism. Well, I don't know if that's the right grammar, but... No, yes, absolutely. Right? He is an alcoholic and has had trouble in the past. Yeah. And these problems resurface. Got trouble, my friends. Trouble right here. Right here in River City.
00:03:29
Speaker
Thank you
Behind the Scenes of The Shining
00:03:30
Speaker
But yes, so and then of course it when you watch the shining or watch anything basically that Jack Nicholson is in his face He's untrustworthy from the beginning. It's it's true Like not only does he already seem a little off and a little crazy, but he also is a dick like to start. Yes
00:03:48
Speaker
And he's supposed to be like a loving father that is going through a hard time and then slowly descends into this horrible thing. But it feels like from the beginning Jack Nicholson could snap at any moment from the first shot. I always think in that scene where he's being interviewed for the job, it's like how would this person hire him? Oh yeah, he's acting so crazy. He's actually crazy. I was listening to somebody with his eyebrows. The middle of his eyebrows go up.
00:04:13
Speaker
in a way that no one should. It's true. Well, do you know who has his eyebrows? Who? Travis has his eyebrows. Oh my god, no. I've heard Travis has very archy eyebrows and so he always looks a little evil or like a little bit like, if he's like this, it's like really crazy anyways, I'm sorry. Side note, Travis will play Jack Nicholson, a young Jack Nicholson. So, shall I share this next little tidbit? Please do, please do.
00:04:41
Speaker
In the book, the spooky room is actually 217, not room 237 as we know it from the Stanley Kubrick movie. And the weird documentary about conspiracy theories. Well, yes. I have not seen that. Me neither, but I know it exists. From what we know. If you've seen it, tell if it's worth watching.
00:05:02
Speaker
Anyway, so Oregon's Timberland Lodge, which is what it was based on, or not, I mean where it was shot. I'm so sorry, the hotel's exterior for some of the shots are to blame for that swap. So they said we do not want the number to be 217
The Shining's Iconic Performances
00:05:21
Speaker
because they actually have a room in the hotel called, or number 217.
00:05:26
Speaker
So they were worried that people weren't going to want to stay in this room. Stupid. So there is no room 237 in that hotel. So that felt like a safe number for them to pick. Yes. But curiously.
00:05:40
Speaker
room 217 at that hotel is requested most frequently. I mean, that's where I would stay. If I was gonna go, I would refuse every other room until I was allowed in 217. A hundred percent. You gotta get in a spooky room. So I think that the things that make The Shining stand out to me besides the blood elevator, which is my favorite shot of the movie. It's amazing. It's amazing. Is the performances of
00:06:06
Speaker
Jack Nicholson, Shelly Duvall, and Danny Lloyd are all so... They all look so breakable. The performances are so... So fragile. Yeah, they're so fragile. It's so realistic and scary. At any moment, Jack Nicholson can snap. At any moment, Shelly Duvall could snap her little twig arm. And even Danny always looks on the cusp of something horrible happening. And those performances all stuff together in this giant hotel.
00:06:36
Speaker
He's so amazing. That's like what always drew me into the movie the most. I think that's true. I think for me it's always been like, I mean, sorry Stephen King, it's always been like the weirdness of how it's shot. Oh yes. All of the like Friday. Oh yeah, yeah. And the like, I will never get over that scene where the guy is, I made
00:06:58
Speaker
Was it you that I showed this to? What? I don't know. The scene where the guy is like giving oral sex to a guy in an animal suit. A scene I had blocked out of my memory. She was scarred. And did I tell you I got the VHS as a shiny? No. I got it. It was unopened. But I watched it the night before I went to see Dr. Sleep. And when that scene came up, I was like, I literally just blocked this shot from my memory. It's horrific. It's so weird. It's a lot. Could I ask, did you see the shining as like a kid or like a teenager? So it's one of the ones that I,
00:07:27
Speaker
I note as like bringing me back to horror after the ring. My dad showed it to me like probably, I don't know, like 9th, 10th grade. Okay, yeah. I feel like I was around-ish the same age. And then I like made all my friends watch it. Yeah. It was like one of the ones that I was like, I know I can handle this now. Yeah. So, ooh, I've got a spooky movie to recommend. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I was always struck by, we always talk about this too, but like how terrible they make Shelly Duvall look. Because she is not
00:07:57
Speaker
I mean, she's interesting looking, but she's not hideous and they make her look hideous. They make her look like a wild woman. But she's never washed her hair. Yeah, absolutely. The clothes are terrible. Poor little thing. She's like so skinny and all these clothes that don't fit her.
00:08:13
Speaker
And like like I was saying like of this character that could like break at any moment This is pretty well known, but she'll I do a lot of pretty terrible time on set Both Stanley Kubrick and Jack Nicholson didn't treat her very well And Kubrick would make her do scenes over and over again to the point of like madness Famously the stare with baseball bat scene. They had made her do it 127 times, but which I would just call like physical abuse. Yeah, it also makes me feel like
00:08:43
Speaker
Like I should have judged her less for how she was swinging the bat. Yeah, because she's so exhausted. And also for me is like, I mean, I love The Shining and I really do. But part of it for me is like, if someone can't get the performance out of an actor,
00:09:01
Speaker
that they want without torturing them, that's either a director problem or an actor problem, or both. And it's like, no one should have to do that 127 times. That feels like torture to me. Especially that scene of that intensity. Yeah. Definitely not. And in
Comparing Book and Movie Endings
00:09:16
Speaker
terms of Danny Lloyd, he didn't do much after this, right? I'm pretty sure I tried to look, yeah. But he apparently was just told he was in a drama, so he didn't see any of the bad stuff. Like they usually just would like kids in horror movies.
00:09:30
Speaker
But I am always amazed by how creepy his Tony voice is. Terrifying. Like that blows my mind because I'm like how did he not know he was in a horror movie? It's so scary. I mean he probably thought he was doing a funny voice and like in the context of... Just don't smile.
00:09:48
Speaker
I know it is scary it's also there's something about his eyes they look very much like old soul eyes absolutely which is what what makes him so such a good little actor and even the moments where it's like the flash the flashes of him like scared his scared face is so sad it's so sad oh my god it's great when he sees the twins
00:10:08
Speaker
Oh yeah, all of the twins. That is a costume we will do for you one day. We shall do. We should have pulled it together for today. And yet, that's so dumb. We don't have time. We didn't think of it in time.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah, those are the things that I love about The Shining. I know I was gonna say I wanted to talk about the end, which is spoilers if you just because it's gonna launch us into talking about Dr. Sleep. Which is why we're really here. We love The Shining, but we gotta move on. But the book version of The Shining ends with Jack Torrance having neglected all of his jobs seemingly, but most importantly
00:10:54
Speaker
Releasing steam from the boiler which I know nothing about boilers, but apparently you got to release that you gotta release that steam Not to be confused with other kinds of steam that we'll talk about later But very good, thank you But so he hasn't been releasing steam from the boiler the boiler explodes he actually has like a moment with his son of whatever of being lucid and
00:11:19
Speaker
And saying like you and your mom need to run. And then the boiler explodes. The whole hotel goes up in flames.
Adapting Dr. Sleep: Challenges and Choices
00:11:26
Speaker
Hotel is no more. This is the book. So not the movie. In the movie, I feel like everyone has seen at least the meme of Jack Nicholson. It's literally one of the things on Instagram, like what are those called? When you scroll up on a store and you can add like a little moving guy. Oh. There's the frozen Jack Nicholson of those.
00:11:47
Speaker
because that's how everyone feels I guess right now. It's true. But he goes into the maze, which also there isn't a maze in the book. It's really? Yes. It's like topiary animals like Edward Scissorhands. Oh my God. Yeah. So Stanley Kubrick invented the maze. You know, Danny does a nice little trick to get him not to see where his footprints are. And then Jack Nicholson freezes to death. Yeah.
00:12:15
Speaker
So, very different endings. It's salt and styrofoam. I always love to know what they make things out of. That looks so real, because that snow for me looks so real, but salt and styrofoam, baby. It's also crazy, too. I mean, I don't know how cold it was. Was it cold? I doubt it. That's crazy. I feel like rolling in the snow, fine. Just pretending to shiva. Pretending to be cold. So anyway, I just think that's important to know, because then when Mike Flanagan
00:12:42
Speaker
Yes. Started to tackle Dr. Sleep. He had to start with two very different endings and try to merge them. Yeah. What I've heard a lot of people say, which I always support after seeing the movie, is that my plan again, who by the way is one of my favorite directors, and I think you too. Yes. Definitely.
00:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, I just like him so much. That second Ouija movie. I'm so proud of literally everything he's done. But that he did a great job of marrying Stephen King's vision and Kubrick's vision together to make them work together, even though they didn't want to work together. But I think that's definitely the case. And he's such a big Stephen King fan, I know, that I'm sure knowing that Stanley Kubrick's version was not one that Stephen King liked,
00:13:30
Speaker
It would be really difficult to start with like, The Shining is an iconic movie. You can't just ignore that and make your own version of Dr. Sleep that's close to the novel. Exactly. Because people are going in, not having read the book, people are going in loving a particular movie and if you don't like
00:13:49
Speaker
pay homage to those iconic scenes, people will be mad, right? And so I think he did a really good job of having all of those moments. Even if you guys saw the trailer and also in the movie, they've re-shot all these things
00:14:04
Speaker
that look, shot for shot, like The Shining. It's really crazy. It's really crazy. The tricycle scene, I was convinced that it was. Yeah, I absolutely thought that. But something I do really appreciate that he did as well is he hired new actors to play the people in these reenactments, if you will. Which now,
Plot and Characters of Dr. Sleep
00:14:26
Speaker
in the age of
00:14:27
Speaker
CGI and all these things they probably could have yeah, I think made CGI versions of them exactly and I'm sure that was an option But I am so glad it's the same feeling of like practical effects versus CGI. It's like It's gonna feel fake right, but if you have an actor that can like in particularly What is the actress's name that plays? Shall I do ball? We got nothing Alex Esso, there you go
00:14:56
Speaker
Particularly if you hire an actress or an actor that can study the movement and the speech and everything of the actor that played the role previously, it's so much more amazing and organic, which we talked about this already, but Alex Esso's movement is so Wendy Torrance. It's so crazy. It's so specific. And she doesn't look exactly like Shelly Duvall. Exactly.
00:15:21
Speaker
There's just something about her mannerisms and her voice. Her voice is really there. The moment for me is if you guys remember when she comes out of the restaurant, this is after her and Danny have moved to Florida after the events of The Shining, and Danny has left the restaurant, is sitting out by the water, and she starts running towards him in this full-on desperate mom run that Shelly Duvall does so well of just a little bit waving arms. Yes.
00:15:50
Speaker
As she does it and when she's running towards the camera, I'm saying Danny and saying Danny it is Shelly Duvall. It's amazing. It's really crazy Yeah, I also like I wonder if like, I don't know Shelly Duvall or Jack Nicholson were like around at all. I guess not
00:16:05
Speaker
Shelly Duvall is not okay. I know. Shelly Duvall is not okay. You can look up more about that on the internet. I don't want to. She's not okay. But Jack Nicholson, there was a moment when we got to the bartender scene where it was clear it was going to be Jack Torrance becoming the bartender because Jack Torrance died in the hotel.
00:16:24
Speaker
We're really haven't given you any plot yet. So sorry about that, but we'll all come back We won't but that was a moment for me where I was like, oh I haven't heard anything about this But are they just gonna make Jack Nicholson do it? And then I'm like and they didn't and I like did they reach out to Jack Nicholson? Was this an option? It's always that stuff like this is off topic but I just was doing some research on interview with a vampire just for my own benefit and the amount of actors that were almost those parts and
00:16:52
Speaker
It just blows my mind. Oh, Toby. He's yawning. He's coughing. He doesn't know how he feels. But it's like it can become such a different movie with different people. And so it's like whatever choice Mike Flanagan makes with those actors is like the imprint that that movie is going to leave on the world. I know it's like being dramatic. No, that's true, though. Should we talk a little bit about the plot of Dark or Sweet? I think we probably should.
00:17:22
Speaker
Yeah. So it's much more about the shining than the shining. Yes. So it starts off right after the events of the shiny. Yes. Uh, but they've moved to Florida. They moved to Florida. They're studying a new life. Danny seems a little older, but not quite. Yeah. That last year also does a great job by the way. He does a great job, but he's not talking. He's not okay. He's not okay. He's traumatized. And good old Dick,
00:17:49
Speaker
Isn't that his name? I think so. Carolyn. Dick Halloran. Halloran. I'm not sure how you say that and I'm sorry. So Dick comes and if you don't remember, he is the man in the shining who also has a touch of the shining and coins that term. Yeah. But he also dies in the first one. So he is coming back in ghost form.
00:18:17
Speaker
to kind of help Danny deal with what happened at the hotel. So he teaches him how to lock these ghosts into chests. And deal with his shining. Like how to, and he talks about how like his grandmother or something like taught him about how to have a box in his mind that he could put these evil things in so he didn't have to deal with them all the time. So one of the ghosts is like that creepy old woman from room 237. She comes up a lot in Dr. Sleep. Like actually too much I can say. Yeah, but she's, I always thought she was the scariest part so.
00:18:46
Speaker
But isn't it weird that young woman never comes back? Yeah, I guess that was just a trick. I guess that's only Jack Torrance sees that? Yeah, I think so. Because it would be weird if Danny saw a beautiful naked woman. Yeah, because it wouldn't be enticing to a child. No, it would be creepy. So, yeah, so he locks up the ghost into chess. And then I think we pretty much fast forward, right? Yeah. And then Danny grows up. And this is sort of like, um,
00:19:12
Speaker
Danny has to deal with some of the same issues that his father did, such as alcoholism. Which is much more a part of Dr. Sleep than, I would say, the Shining movie. Yes. You mentioned something about that, that Stephen King. Yeah, so Stephen King, at least what I've read about the novel, is that it deals much more with alcoholism than the movie portrays. I mean, we obviously see, like Felicia was reminding me, that there's that scene at the beginning where they talk about
00:19:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah, Jack pulling Danny's arm too hard when he was drunk, and dislocating his shoulder. And there's all the scenes of him drinking with Lloyd at the bar in the hotel. There is definitely mention of it,
Exploring Trauma in Dr. Sleep
00:19:53
Speaker
but Ewan McGregor, as adult Danny, is dealing with alcoholism in a very real way, in Dr. Sleep. And it starts, the first way we see adult Danny is at a very low point in his life. Yeah.
00:20:10
Speaker
it's gets it gets really traumatic really fast yeah um because and is this a spoiler review um maybe we won't go too far let's not go too far i guess um but basically he sleeps with a woman um he leaves her house and he
00:20:33
Speaker
has the Shining tell him what he's left behind? Is that vague enough? I don't know. But it basically prompts him that he needs to get out of here. And he needs to start over, he needs to start his whole life over, which I assume, because at this point I think we're New Jersey, right? It sounds like New Jersey or something. I have a sense that Danny, and this isn't necessarily said in the movie, but that he's used to starting over when things get bad.
00:21:00
Speaker
But at this point he's lost his mother, he's alone, he has no real family or significant other support. And so he just sort of goes somewhere, it says like upstate or somewhere, to just get a fresh start and he meets his new best friend, who is the sweetest man, I love this guy. What's his character name? Billy? Billy, oh, such a good guy. And Billy gets him into AA, gets an apartment, and Danny can sort of start his new life.
00:21:30
Speaker
And
Contrasting The Shining and Dr. Sleep
00:21:31
Speaker
I think through a lot of this, what I think is really great is that it's like looking at Danny as an adult through the lens of what happened to him as a kid. So it's like a movie about trauma, which I think comes up a lot. Which I feel like sometimes is not talked about enough in horror movies. Like I always think about this.
00:21:53
Speaker
With like final girls. Oh, yeah, it's like the Jamie Lee Curtis thing of the new Halloween. Yes It's like right like if you go through this like Near-death experience all your friends all your friends died. You have to fight off your killer You're the only one to survive. Guess what? You're not gonna be okay. You're not gonna be okay I feel like a lot of horror movies either end in like more
00:22:13
Speaker
Scares to come or like she's fine. She's fine now She has the little blanket on her outside the ambulance and that's that she's great And this movie is like no everything that happened to Danny has ruined his whole life afterwards. Yes, and it's like right that makes sense, right?
00:22:30
Speaker
So I like that honesty. And something, so I was listening to, I don't want to say this word without crediting the podcast I heard it on, I was listening to the Shockways podcast when they talked about Dr. Sleep, and they used the word warm, where it's like they, Mike Flanagan made the shining warm, and that is such a good word, because you know what, it's like so blue. And like, same with Hauncey of Hill House, like, Mike Flanagan's work. He loves blue. But it does have this feeling of like making
00:22:57
Speaker
Horrific movies like very inviting. Yeah, and they it seems like I'm moving yes It makes it feel like much more emotional and it's the point where I don't know if you ever felt like this while watching it But there were times where I like didn't remember I was watching a horror movie. Oh, yeah, it's also very supernaturally Yeah, it's like a lot of supernatural stuff in this one because we're much more dealing with the shining itself um
00:23:21
Speaker
but then when there's moments of gore or violence it's like it hits you so much harder because you've been in this like this like warm atmosphere character driven yes character driven movie and that's like so my plan again it's like all of that all of his movies like that um but then he doesn't let up on like the scary stuff right right yeah so plot wise also simultaneously to danny are we're seeing these like soul sucking humans
00:23:51
Speaker
So they also have touches of the shining. They're all super gifted in some way. It seems like the shining in each person, like as every person has a different personality, the shining works with them in a different way. Yes. And I love somebody, I assume Danny, at some point explains it as like some people might just be like,
00:24:14
Speaker
you feel like your partner's having a rough day and you bring them flowers without knowing. That part of it also kind of makes it seem very real world, even though we're dealing with all these crazy supernatural things. So these soul sucking vamps.
00:24:29
Speaker
are traveling mostly after kids, it feels like. Yeah. It sort of feels like that they're on their way to exhausting their resources. So they suck the steam, which is the soul, out of people with a shine. Yes. And that's how they can live for an extremely long time. That's how they stay powerful. And also seemingly signed deals with the devil in some way. Yeah. Or maybe not the devil.
00:24:58
Speaker
But like they signed their life to someone yeah, and it's sort of unclear Actually, I think I don't think there seems to be like a higher power No, but it seems like they're joining some sort of tribe. Yeah, it's like very culty very culty and also like Spoiler but some of them die
00:25:19
Speaker
And the way that they die also feels very specific to like they signed their life to something. Right, that's a good point. Because they just get killed in normal ways. That's true. But the way that they die is pretty intense. Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting that they die that way because when the first death occurs, I assumed they die and adjust.
00:25:43
Speaker
thing. They burst into dust. And when the first person died, I assumed it was because that person was so ancient, but then when someone else has quite young dyes, they die in the same way. So it does seem to be something about the pattern. And the other thing is that their bodies disappear. So it's whether it's like they gave up their body to be pure soul, I'm not sure. Whereas the people that they kill, they just die like normal people.
00:26:09
Speaker
Oh, the most adorable kid ever is in this movie too. Jacob Tremblay. I can't believe he did it. He's a literal star. Well, he was, Mike Flanagan directed him in his first film. So before I wake, maybe. Well, before a week was I like, I can't remember why I know this before I wake was initially Jacob.
00:26:28
Speaker
Tremblay, like film debut, but it got- But the room beat him. But the room beat him because before we got stuck in like distribution hell for two years. Wow. And so they were no longer introducing Jacob, but he was the first director that Jacob worked with. He's such a star. Yeah, he's so great. But I couldn't believe, I mean, I couldn't believe he did such a small part. Yeah, well. It's very intense. Yeah, it's very intense. It's a very good role for him. It's a very good role.
00:26:55
Speaker
But yeah, and so we have these people and then we have our little star. Whose name I forgot? What is it? Abracadabra. Abracadabra. Okay. I want to see what her name is because I know she hasn't done a lot and I want to just make sure I say her name. I feel like it's right here. Oh you have it? I have it right here and her name is Kylie Curran.
00:27:20
Speaker
Kylie Curran. I know you're probably not watching this, but keep doing what you're doing, girl. Shout out. You're a star. She is a star. She's a real star. I felt like I could feel everything she felt in that movie. Yeah. She's so good. Also, her face is very expressive. Yeah.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah, she's not afraid to do anything. She plays a character that has a very strong shine to the point that she sort of becomes friends with adult Danny through
00:27:52
Speaker
their telepathic connection. Like they get to know each other in their brains before they ever meet in person, which I think is so cool. And I don't, at this point in the movie, or at this point in Danny's life, he's extremely resistant to the shine. He's been sort of shutting it out. He's been shutting it out because he doesn't want to see the scary things. And he's basically taught himself to hide. He wants to hide his shine. He also doesn't even briefly mention that
00:28:21
Speaker
those people like he knew about people like the soul suckers oh I can't remember I think he says something that's like that's also like I saw a glimpse of them and now so at this point in the movie Danny has grown up and he has really dimmed his shine not necessarily dim but he's been hiding he's not trying to use his shine he's not trying to look for things he's trying to shut it down as much as he can
00:28:46
Speaker
And somehow this little girl, Abra, starts connecting to him and they become friends through this like telepathic friendship. And I feel like she actually is, I mean later obviously, but she's like a huge help to him.
00:29:03
Speaker
using his shine. Yeah, absolutely. And embracing it more, where he's used to hiding it because of the scary stuff or wanting to stay safe. So is Abra. She has sort of a whole storyline about her hiding her powers from her parents and trying to shut down all that stuff, or at least in front of them, because she doesn't want for them to be concerned. It's so sad. It is really sad. She doesn't want her parents to think she's weird.
00:29:30
Speaker
And I'm just like, I get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So is there more plot stuff we should say, or can we just? Okay, I'll just say this. So, and then the main plot of the movie is basically Danny and Abra teaming up to go against these salt-sucking vampires. Including Rose the Hat. Including Rose the Hat. Who's the leader. I'm assuming everyone's gonna be for Halloween this year because people love her.
00:29:57
Speaker
Though it's too simple a costume for us, I would say. I know, I actually thought about it and I was like, eh. I think she has a- wait, did I see that? That might have been a made up Funko Pop. I thought I saw she might be getting a Funko Pop, but it might have just been like a fan made Funko Pop. It's hard to tell these things. Twitter is a wild place. But yeah, and so Rose the Hat is sort of our other big big character of this one.
00:30:21
Speaker
And she is sort of a Stevie Nicks vibe. Totally. Oh my gosh. He's such a Stevie Nicks. But she is the leader of this vampire soul second gang. And she's not the oldest, but she does seem to be somehow the most powerful. Like she can really like astral project. Is that what that's called? That's like, I think that is where you like put your, yeah.
00:30:46
Speaker
Somewhere else somewhere else. Yeah, so she can like go and she can see people in different ways and I Don't know. She's got a lot of power. She can move things. I Love that snakebite girl, too. Yes, and oh my god, the snakebite wasn't even snakebite Audrey. Yeah, I Hope it's Audrey. It's definitely snakebite. Such a Audrey from Little Shop, but I don't think that's actually her name. I
00:31:10
Speaker
snakebite Andy Andy Andy Andy that is such a great character because also this is like whatever I don't care I'm just spoiling things but snakebite Andy is one of the first people we see the cults take in
00:31:24
Speaker
like they already have their people but it's how we see someone get initiated into their cult and how that all works and It's funny because when they come upon her She's like seducing pedophiles basically and then much older gentlemen. Yes
00:31:40
Speaker
And it is so badass and amazing, but when I was watching that scene I thought she was already in the cult and she was doing this for them somehow and then you realize she's just doing this on her own because she can. As like a fun weekend plan. Yeah, as a fun weekend plan. But yeah, it's like so and that actress is like so beautiful. She's really cool looking.
00:32:03
Speaker
She's so cool. She looks like a little fairy elf girl. Yes. But she's great. Oh wait, sorry, I just read one of Lauren's notes and it blew my mind because I haven't read the book, Dr. Sleep. Yeah, right? But here it says, Dan is revealed to be Abra's biological uncle. In the book. Okay, well that's not in the movie. Not in the movie. I just thought it was crazy because she calls him Uncle Dan the whole time, but it's like very much clear that they're not related. Yeah. But in the novel, apparently his, Jack Torrance had an affair.
00:32:33
Speaker
with her grandmother? Oh, I see. So she's... Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or to be her mother. The little girl's grandmother. So that it's her... Oh, I see. Yeah, you're right, you're right. He's like half-brothers with her mother. Whoa. Which is like kind of a stretch. I feel. I agree. I probably didn't need that in the movie. But something else that, I mean, we can talk more about
00:33:02
Speaker
what we loved about the movie, but something that I do think we both find interesting is that it hasn't done very well at the box office. I know. Yeah, and the last few weeks on Twitter, particularly, so many horror people are tweeting and being like, please go see Doctor Sleep, please go see Doctor Sleep. And I'm just like, even I was late to the game on it, but I was always planning on seeing it. Yeah. And you sort of mentioned this, but there's something about the general non-horror audience, though they are seeing more horror movies than ever.
00:33:32
Speaker
there might have been some confusion in terms of like what the head doctor sleep was yes because unless you saw if you just saw the poster it does not seem to be related to the shining if you see the trailer it's sort of like is this a shining remake right that's what I was very confused when I started watching the trailer for the first time because I was like wait are they remaking are they what is this
00:33:54
Speaker
Yeah. And so, and if you know what it is, then it's like, okay, great. I know what it is. But if I can imagine if you didn't know not being as inclined to see it, um, but it was amazing. So I hope more people see it. I hope the box office has done okay. Now. I also don't understand. This is like so random by like no horror movies come out in October. Do you always feel that way? They're like no horror movies come out in October.
00:34:21
Speaker
I feel like they do. Like what? Like what came out in October? Wasn't it October? No, that was September. Yeah. It's like everyone's so scared to release things in October. Maybe that's true. I don't know. Maybe they're worried about competition in October. And then nobody does it. So there are more like fun behind the scenes things that are interesting to me. Yeah. Mostly I was just fascinated because I haven't read the book that so Dick does not die in the book.
00:34:51
Speaker
The Shining, which blows my eye. He doesn't come back to the hotel? No. Oh. Or maybe he does and he lives. You know, that's one reason, that's one annoying thing I have at The Shining. He walks in and gets stabbed. He gets all the way there, the whole freaking journey. They show him in that hotel room. They show him all the way. They show him that beautiful black woman above his bed. Yes. Like topless black woman. You're like, what? They give all this information for him to walk in and die. Yep. But it does, I will say like,
00:35:20
Speaker
watching it back like it does give Danny more time. So it does save him maybe. Sure. I don't know. Maybe. Helps him out. I'm sure so. Because that's how it's framed in Dr. Sleep. It's like he says you need to go help this little girl. Like I helped you. Like I helped you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which like whether that is like he taught him about the Shining, you need to go teach her about the Shining. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like she's gonna die, I saved you, you save her. Yeah.
00:35:48
Speaker
And I was about to reveal a big spoiler and I took it back. Good for you. Good for you. But then, so what I was going to say is that the scene that starts off or towards the beginning of Dr. Slaber, he's teaching him about the chess. In the book, he's actually alive, teaching him that. He comes to Florida and it's like, Hey, I'm going to teach you how to deal with this. So Mike Flanagan in all his wisdom,
00:36:13
Speaker
Brought him back as a ghost presence and to be fair. He does later die in the doctor sleep novel From old age or something and then like continues to come back as a ghost. So it's not like a new yeah theme but I do like that in Stephen King books like having like ghosts that are guardian angels kind of thing. Oh my gosh Sorry, this is another huge huge point So after he passed away due to old age in the book he comes back in the body of someone who's on hospice and
00:36:42
Speaker
that he's visiting. Yeah, so he never appears, I think, in his state again. He doesn't show up just like, hey, what's up? It's also interesting to me that the whole name of this thing is Dr. Sleep. And that's actually such a small subplot of what the Dr. Sleep stuff is about. But it is a very beautiful subplot. I don't want to give it away because I really didn't know what it was. No, I cried a lot a lot. It's very surprising. It's very surprising about what the word is Dr. Sleep actually mean for Danny.
00:37:11
Speaker
But it is also funny to me, and maybe it's bigger in the book, maybe it's not, but it's this small part of it that is the overarching title of the whole thing. Of the whole thing. It's interesting. And it goes along with our feelings that it's like in a more emotional movie than maybe that. So some more tech stuff. Shall I keep going? Let's do it. This is actually yours. That there are only three reused shots
00:37:38
Speaker
from the original Kubrick movie in Dr. Sleep. So I initially, before seeing the movie and before looking it up, I thought they had, I thought the plan was to actually use quite a few of the shots from the original movie. Me too, definitely. I thought I read that somewhere. I don't know. But it's really only like three shots that they heavily doctored that are towards the beginning. If you ever like the beginning of The Shining, it's like all the mountains and the trees and the driving through the mountains.
00:38:03
Speaker
It's like some of those shots that have been heavily doctored to go into the very blue world To sleep yeah, but it's like a nice thing that it's there, but it's it's not something that you would recognize Yeah, I don't think And all the iconic scenes that I assumed were the same from the trailer are all new actors Yes, new and they did such a great job. Oh something fun. I do want to say is that They built
00:38:31
Speaker
the set of the hotel all practically it's amazing they built the whole thing out the only thing that cgi is the ceiling because they had like the theatrical i mean the film lights in the ceiling but everything else is like built to a tee and they even got the blueprints of the original set from kubrick's estate
00:38:50
Speaker
So they could put everything exactly It's so crazy and I was watching somewhere that like literally like people were just walking around with iPads watching the shining and like Looking around the room trying to make sure everything was like in the right spot. I Just like I love the dedication. It's really crazy. Yeah, and it feels really real
00:39:12
Speaker
I think the key to all of this is that Mike Flanagan somehow won over the Kubrick estate and somehow won over Stephen King to be able to like join them in a way that they hadn't been joined. Yeah, exactly. It's like he ended a feud or something. Yeah, I actually, I mean, I can say this now, I guess, but so Mike Flanagan, I read an interview with him where he said like,
00:39:34
Speaker
He, like Stephen King has said to him that Dr. Sleep has like softened his idea of the Shining movie. Oh wow, that's nice. I know, I was like maybe he's just getting old, but. Soft, softening with age. Softening with age. That's very possible. Oh I liked this, I liked this cameo that you included. That Danny. I don't know what I wrote on this video. Danny Lloyd from the original Shining movie. Oh yes. Makes a little cameo in the baseball scene. Yes. Which like, I don't even think I can say cameo really, it's probably an extra.
00:40:04
Speaker
Yeah, he basically, he's listening to the guy who's talking. I did not see it. I didn't see it when I was watching the movie. But it's just a nice little thing. And so I think they had also asked Stephen King to do a cameo, because he does that sometimes. But he apparently was so exhausted from his cameo in It Chapter 2.
00:40:22
Speaker
Which is the full-on roll with lines. It's a roll. It's great. I loved it. Then he was like, I'm gonna sit this one out like I'm tired. I'm just gonna chill in Maine. I love that. But yeah. I will say the biggest difference for me from this movie to The Shining, other than like, yes, like vibe very different,
00:40:41
Speaker
But just the fact that this movie is so much about the supernatural aspects of the Shining and the Shining feels like so much more of a slasher movie. Yeah, it really does. It's like so much about Jet Nicholson chasing people around with an axe. Yes.
00:40:56
Speaker
Dr. Sleep is so much about these people feeding on souls and energy and using their powers, and I love that stuff, especially if you give a little girl powers, I'm gonna watch that movie, because it's very exciting to me. And this little girl, Abra, is so powerful, and it teaches everyone in the movie so much about what it means to have power and shine. It's so good. But then also, going back to what I initially was talking about, trauma,
00:41:26
Speaker
is they, I feel like they also address all of that in a realistic way. This movie is two and a half hours, I forgot to say. It's long. It's long. So long. You know it's like seven minutes longer than The Shining? The Shining feels way shorter than that. I know. I looked it up. I thought The Shining was like under two hours. That's crazy. I'm gonna tell you the hard quote. The hard truth. I'm looking it up right now. I wanna know. I know you do. Cause in my head I was thinking like a hundred minutes.
00:41:57
Speaker
It's somewhere down here, right? Yeah 144 minutes, baby. I know I would have said like an hour 45. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. Well you live and you learn things. There you go. Um, but Oh you were talking about supernatural girl it feels like
00:42:16
Speaker
that they, maybe it's the length of the movie that allows them to do this, but they really get through all the trauma stuff, even in the moments that Abra's going through horrible things, it feels like it's all played out in a very realistic timeline, which I feel like is not normal for movies, but I felt like I really went on this very long journey with her, and it's amazing. I will say the big trauma that happens to her, I felt, was a little rushed over.
00:42:46
Speaker
You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Because she's just like meh. She's not even like meh. It's the meh that leads into like her mom being like meh. Yeah. Literally. That's a good point. That just like totally takes away everything I just said. But you're right, you're right. I mean, I think they handle it in a way. They try. Yeah. But it's at that, I mean, the mood got in sometimes.
00:43:14
Speaker
But I was gonna say that I think the biggest difference for me between this and The Shining is that I really enjoy it. It's very fun, The Shining, but I don't remember feeling a ton for the characters, and whether it's because Shelley Duvall looks so crazy, or I even feel like Danny is sort of just a troubled kid.
00:43:36
Speaker
where he doesn't feel like Abra, Abra feels like very level-headed for how much craziness happens here. I have no sympathy for Jack Torrance in The Shining. No. Like, I never am like, he's going through something. Like, I never feel that way. And you, I mean, honestly, from the beginning, you're like, why are you married to him? Yeah, oh my God. He's so scary. And why would you ever agree? He dislocated your son's shoulder, get out of there, Shelly. And why would you agree to go to this big hotel with him for the winter? Yeah, exactly.
00:44:05
Speaker
It feels very dangerous. But in Doctor Sleep, it's like all the characters, even the evil ones, have sympathetic aspects to them where you're just like... Totally. Yeah. It's really good. It's very Mike. It's really good. Very Mike Flanagan. Very emotional. Yeah.
00:44:18
Speaker
That's why you think, is that enough? Yeah, is there anything else you wanna talk about? I think that was it. I think that's it. We really liked it. We did, we did. I was so scared Lauren wasn't gonna like it. So I saw it after you. Cause you saw it after me and also I, we had a conversation on the way to the New Jersey Horicon where I was like, blah blah, the Joker and Lauren was like, I didn't like it. And I was like, I liked parts. I said, do we have different tastes? And then like I saw it and I was like, I loved it. And Lauren was like, what do you think? I was like, I loved it. Do you remember the nun?
00:44:49
Speaker
I had a good time at The Nun. And I fell asleep. And Lauren fell asleep. To be fair, The Nun is not a great movie. She saw that in hindsight. But I did have fun watching it because, I don't know, I thought it was fun.
00:45:02
Speaker
But- So our recommendations for the week are the none. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, I recommend something. Actually that you should watch. Little Monsters on Hulu with Lupita. Oh my god. Playing a kindergarten teacher that has to fight zombies. Wait, that's amazing. It came out in October, got no freaking press. I haven't heard a single- I know. GD thing. I know it, I know it. I don't know why no one's talking about it. Lupita. Lupita is in it and she is a star.
00:45:30
Speaker
I think it's cuz I don't know why it is actually. I don't know why maybe it's just cuz it's on Hulu I'm upset, but you have to watch it. It's adorable and funny and It's great. Am I allowed to give not a horror recommendation, please. I just started watching Succession. What's that? It's an HBO show. Oh, I don't know what it is. It's so good It's I feel like I talked to you about it because it's it like it's unrelated. No, it's unrelated to Anything that we're here for anything that we're here for but
00:45:59
Speaker
a Culkin, isn't it? Which one? I know, that's why I'm like, I don't think it's yours. Is it Rory? I really love Rory Culkin. We're getting there. Did I tell you this story already on this podcast? What? One time I ran into Rory Culkin and I gasped and ran away. Because she wants to marry him. Because he was so beautiful. And then I was like, Travis, you look kind of like Rory Culkin. He was like, don't tell me that.
00:46:23
Speaker
I don't see it. I know. I know. I don't see it either. Why is this not happening? Well, what's the session about? Now we're just chatting. It's Kieran Culkin. Oh, I love Kieran. She loves all the Culkins. I love all the Culkins. I really do love all the Culkins. Even Macaulay has come back. He's come back in a real way. Yeah. So it's about a
00:46:43
Speaker
like a father of this big successful company falling ill and sort of the children all having that. But it's like very funny and very dark and interesting and shot very interestingly. I'm interested.
00:47:02
Speaker
Not horror, but. That's okay. I'm afraid. Hey, I was supposed to move wire. We're all here for different things. But that is that, I guess. Yeah. I hope you see Doctor Sleep, and if you have, please let us know what you thought of it. Unless it's bad, which don't tell us. No, you can tell us. Just be gentle. But that's it. We hope you have some sweet, sweet nightmares. Bye. Bye.