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The American Craftsman Podcast Ep. 34 | New Digs
41 Plays4 years ago
On Episode 34 of The American Craftsman Podcast, hosted by Greene Street Joinery, we come at you from our new podcast studio.
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Beer of the Week (Mikkeller Burst! West Coast IPA): https://shop.mikkellersd.com/products/burst
Tool of the Week: (Knipex 12" Cobra Plier) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X4J2HU/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=greenestreetj-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B000X4J2HU&linkId=117dcd797e9b2bade2ed408ea025a8a4
Greene Street Joinery is a custom design & build shop located in Monmouth County, New Jersey. We build multigenerational furniture with an eco-friendly and sustainable mindset.
Inspired and guided by the ideals of the Arts and Crafts movement, we believe in the use of traditional craftsmanship and simple, well-proportioned forms; sustainability and ethical practices; and importantly, taking pleasure in our work as craftsmen to create quality pieces of enduring value.
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Transcript
Partnership with Montana Brand Tools
00:00:16
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a change
00:00:22
Speaker
The American Craftsman Podcast is proud to partner with Montana Brand Tools. The West was built by people with strength and great pride in their workmanship. It was a necessity that early settlers of Montana have a strong will, a resilient character, and great determination to tame the rugged landscape while adapting to its dramatic climate. That spirit made in the USA pride and craftsmanship is alive today, both in how Montana Brand Tools are manufactured and how they perform.
00:00:48
Speaker
Montana Brand Power Tool accessories are manufactured utilizing proprietary state-of-the-art CNC machining equipment and the highest quality materials available. Montana Brand tools are guaranteed for life to be free of defects in material and workmanship because we build these tools with pride and determination.
00:01:05
Speaker
Montana Brand Tools are manufactured by Rocky Mountain Twist, located in Ronin, Montana. Montana Brand's heritage comes from a long line of innovative power tool accessories. Use coupon code American Craftsman for 10% off your order at MontanaBrandTools.com.
New Podcast Studio Setup
00:01:20
Speaker
Well, it feels a little strange down here. I know. Down here in the doldrums, that's not even the right word. In the dungeon? In the dungeon of my basement.
00:01:32
Speaker
Yeah, a Studio B coming at you live. Yeah, Hollywood, New Jersey. Leonardo, really? Yeah. If you're watching, you can see quite a difference in the. Here goes the email. Quite a difference in the set, we'll call it. Yeah, this is our set. This is our studio. The new podcasting location.
00:01:56
Speaker
Yeah, we were moving on up because we moved out of the shop, which is really a huge benefit. We don't have to, you know, break down every day and set up and clean up and stuff, mitigate dust with the equipment and everything. So although it may not look as much like a woodshop, certainly more comfortable for us. Yeah, we got these chairs. So if we nod off during
00:02:24
Speaker
During the podcast, you'll know why because we got these comfy lazy boys. We're sitting in now. Yeah, don't take offense tonight you guys Well, I guess well, let's get into it so we don't We don't overthink this the new digs here So you have a fine cooler.
West vs. East Coast IPAs
00:02:45
Speaker
We're gonna start it off with the beer that week like we always do. That's right
00:02:50
Speaker
So this week we have from McKellar, West Coast style, West Coast style, India pale ale. Nice. Yeah, I like McKellar. What's the difference between a West Coast and an East Coast? I think East Coast is usually a little more sweet. West Coast is a little more dry.
00:03:13
Speaker
Ingredients, water, barley, malt, hops, and yeast. The four ingredients to beer. I see it comes from San Diego. Yeah, McKeller is a Danish brewer, I believe. Well, there's some sound effects there.
00:03:48
Speaker
There's a fly in the studio. You almost got him. Yeah, there's a big fat fly flying around. Because this is my basement after all. This is an exceptionally clear beer. Yeah. And very light in color.
00:04:12
Speaker
guess maybe my fridge isn't the coldest up there hence the the new fridge coming next week yeah you really are moving up in the world yeah at your own basement the uh the bar has been set pretty low listen we're working we're working class dudes you know what can we do we did get these snazzy new mic stands yeah yeah
00:04:41
Speaker
Well, looks like we're having some foam, uh, foam issues.
Tool of the Week: NYPEX Cobra Pliers
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to let mine settle a little bit. Well, I might as well get into the tool of the week. Yeah. There you go. That's the one, the way to keep things moving. So this week, I have the, uh, NYPEX Cobra pliers. See if I can get us.
00:05:08
Speaker
These are the 12 inch made in Germany and self-locking so they have a little button here that you push and there's a bunch of different teeth so you can lock into incremental positions about every 16th of an inch. It's like the Cadillac of
00:05:27
Speaker
What would you call those pliers? Like channel locks? Yeah, I think they call them slip joint pliers. Is that what they're called? Yeah, I grew up calling them channel locks. Even these, you know, say, hey, grab the channel locks. Right. But those things are another level up the chain. Yeah, these are nice. So the beauty of these is that, you know, you can put the top half on whatever you're working on and then just slide the bottom up and you get a, you get a,
00:05:53
Speaker
Because there's so much adjustment, you always get a good purchase on the handle. Sometimes with the channel locks, you end up with the handle being way open. There's only like six slots there. Yeah, so I like them for that. And just a nice tool. Even as woodworkers, we always keep a pair of channel locks around, adjustable wrenches, that kind of stuff. So good for the shop, good for installs in case you need to do something with plumbing.
A Plumbing Mishap Story
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, that happens quite a bit, actually, more than we'd like. Yeah, I like the 12-inch version. I have an I Love Lucy story that goes like that. Oh, yeah.
00:06:37
Speaker
doing doing a kitchen install and the plumber he left us, you know the stubs where the Sink base was going but he only put left like the little plastic caps on there that are sort of like just friction fit Oh Lord
00:06:55
Speaker
And it was holding the water pressure back. And me and my helper, who happened to be John Vitolo on that job, were in the house alone. It's an old house.
00:07:09
Speaker
And so we're wrangling the kitchen base into its spot and we knocked off the plastic cap and water comes shooting out like an Isle of Lucy episode straight into the room.
00:07:28
Speaker
I put my hand over it and water's spraying out. Now I tell John run down to the basement and you know, find a shut off. Of course he goes down to the basement. It's like, uh, you know, it looks like one of those American pickers episode stuff everywhere. Water is still streaming out into the house.
00:07:55
Speaker
Eventually I stretched myself out. I grabbed a plastic cap and shoved it back on there and it held. That's why you use, you know, copper, copper stub outs with right. Right. Sweated caps. Yeah. So.
00:08:14
Speaker
Not that those pliers would have helped in that instance, but those probably squeeze the pipe. That's right. Yeah. Those have that nice, that sort of diamond half diamond shape. I don't know. Those are good for grabbing round pieces. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're heavy duty. Yeah. And the grip is, uh, you know, that channel lock grip. Excuse me.
00:08:37
Speaker
The, uh, surprise. His chair's got a squeak to him. Yeah. The, um, the blue channel locks are, uh, they're slippery, the grips. They're not. I think, yeah, your chair squeaks more than mine.
00:08:50
Speaker
You hear that? You hear that squeak? Yeah. Whoa. OK, don't pull on the mic, Stan. The table will fall over. You know, it's different, really. We're used to facing each other more. Now we're kind of sitting side by side. Yeah. I'm used to being in the shop, not my house. Yeah. Oh, the grip. Yeah, the grip on these is nice. It's nice and tacky. Even if it's wet or sort of oily, you know, it has some some texture to it where the channel ones are kind of just super slick.
00:09:20
Speaker
I think I have enough. Got enough room over here now. Let's toast. Cheers. Cheers. There we go. There's the clink. Studio
Setting Goals in Woodworking
00:09:31
Speaker
B. Not bad. Yeah, that's different. That is different. I like it.
00:09:49
Speaker
See if I can hold the can up here. What do you think of their labeling? I get it burst like a pop bubble of bubble gum. Yeah, I just saw that burst. I like the McKellar. Like the look of all the. Yeah.
00:10:16
Speaker
man, I have to grease this chair up. Maybe it's just getting broken in. Do we look like a couple of slouches in our lazy boys? Yeah. Wait till I put the leg out.
00:10:33
Speaker
I was wondering if we were going to be allowed to put our feet on the table. I think it just, it's going to take up the whole foreground. Yeah. Yeah. Because the angle of the camera, everything looks, it's like the message in your rear view mirror objects appear closer. Oh man.
00:10:52
Speaker
Right. Because even our knees appear closer than our heads. Yeah. These chairs are pretty long too. Yeah. So should we get into it? First question of the week? I think we might as well. All right. I'll read it. How important are goals to your shop? You're going to have to move your mic there a little bit. Oh, all right. Here we go. How important are goals to your shop and do they have to be big goals? It comes from our buddy Lou at Alvarez Woodworking.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah. Speaking of Lou, Lou and Manny stopped by on Friday. Oh, yeah. That was a good time reminiscing. You know, we all used to work together, so it was good to see those guys. You know, goals are very important.
00:11:37
Speaker
You have to set goals and even small goals like daily goals and long term goals because you know things don't just sort of manifest on their own. That's true. So if you have something to work towards it's always I think easier to achieve that you know.
00:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, even if it's just a daily goal for the job that we're working on, and sometimes we just come up with those goals in the morning. Like, you know, what would we like to accomplish today? Right. And then, of course, we have a more long term. We're not really like too long term thinkers, although we did play a lottery today. That's right. That's Friday. That's pretty long term.
00:12:20
Speaker
We come up with 100 million. We might have to... We'll never see you guys again. No, I'm just kidding. We're the kind of people we'd be here in the basement next Wednesday. Oh yeah, and Monday and Tuesday.
Jointing Without a Jointer
00:12:33
Speaker
We just do the podcast full time. That's right. We might have a bigger set though. Yeah, that'd be nice.
00:12:44
Speaker
Now this new set, it looked really big when we were laying it all out, right? Yeah. And then we carried the chairs downstairs. And then it was full. One could see we're like way off of the wall because of just the whole, I mean, it was tough. It was tough to jam everything in here. And if we have a guest, we're going to have to figure out. Yeah, they'll have to sit on a milk crate. Or this cooler.
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah, you got to have goals. I think it sounds maybe a little intimidating to people who feel like they want to be more of a free spirit and that sort of thing, but we pretty much fly by the seat of our pants for the most part.
00:13:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean to some degree right well compared to a like a structured nine to five type of existence, but we get in at the same time every day and we put in our our eight hours and all that stuff, but we don't really have
00:13:50
Speaker
You know, everything buttoned up to the nth degree. We just we were workers. So we don't really need to do that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah. I mean, we don't have like, you know, financial strategists, you know, talking about five, which is five years from now. We're going to be. No, I mean, in that sense, no, we do fly by the seat of our pants. But we play lottery. Yeah.
00:14:14
Speaker
which is what you know they'll be a little slice of pie for all our friends. You can do what you want with your half. You got it. You got to dole out a little bit. You know this is the way I always figured if I won like big on the lottery.
00:14:31
Speaker
I'd give it out all at the beginning with the caveat. It's like this is what you're getting. No phone calls, no sob stories, no letters. If you want to go to Atlantic City and blow it all, that's up to you. But this is this. Here's what you're getting from my lottery winnings. I'm not giving anybody anything. Maybe some family. Yes, I'm very close friends. My friends are more likely to get it than my family.
00:15:04
Speaker
Interesting questions.
Woodworker vs. Furniture Maker: Power Tools
00:15:05
Speaker
This is from CT Vader 1977 on Instagram. I like that. I did have your name at one point, but it's got lost somewhere up there in my brain. Any tips for how to joint a board without a jointer? Well, I remember back in the olden days,
00:15:28
Speaker
When I started, I only had a little six inch joiner and those things probably have like a four foot bed. If you're lucky. And I had a joint, I had to joint these big boards and I tried the router method, you know, where the straight edge. Yeah. And I didn't, I wasn't really happy with
00:15:52
Speaker
The result. And did you ever try the method where it's going to sound really crazy? I don't remember where I read it. And I've tried it for about six inches of two boards before I realized I wasn't going to make it work, where you join both boards at the same time so that they'll definitely fit together. What are we talking about? Just skip it.
00:16:22
Speaker
We're talking about how to join a board without a joiner. Yeah. Oh, I met with the router. Oh, yeah. I can't remember where I read it, but it was something where you would you would join both boards at the same time and you they would make a mirror image of one another and.
00:16:42
Speaker
They would definitely fit together in case there were some discrepancies, but either I didn't understand the article or it's not a viable method. Yeah, it doesn't sound like it would work. But I just did like the front of a pair of boards and I said, this isn't going to work. Yeah, because a mirror image doesn't mean that they're going to fit together. Right. Well, you know how it's concave. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:12
Speaker
Hmm. Yeah, I've never even thought about using a router to join a board. Yeah, I think that's like a lot of those like beginner when you only have like a hand saw kind of tips and things like that. Just use a table saw. Yeah. And like we did. What's his name? Use the track saw that time. Yeah. So I'd say if you have a track saw, use that. If not.
00:17:38
Speaker
Just use the table saw, get a piece of plywood that's straight and clamp or screw the piece of wood to it and run it through the table saw. Yeah, I've seen that done too. You just use that as a straight edge. Yeah. Yeah. Is there any other tool that might be used? I mean, we're not... A jointer. Yeah, we're not going to ask about like a jointer plane or anything like that, you know, a hand plane with a fence on it. Even that is...
00:18:06
Speaker
You know, it's hard not to get those little hairline gaps. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you could do like a spring joint where. Yeah, the center is a little bit hollow. Mm hmm. But yeah, I mean, there really is no substitute for a jointer. I think the table saw is going to be your best bet. Yeah. You never heard of somebody trying it with a router? Yeah, that was sounds like way more work than just using the table saw. Yeah.
00:18:34
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think it is. I don't know. That was that was some of the bad advice I got when I was starting out. You have to have an awfully, awfully clean and straight, straight edge. Yes. And a very sharp bit. Otherwise, you know, any little. Yeah, this article probably recommends you use the factory edge from a police apply would or something like that, too. So you could probably see the quality that you're going to
00:19:03
Speaker
Yeah. That's like a ton of setup and work holding. Then you got to worry about not tipping the router. Yeah. That's the problem I had because you know, you're sort of inexperienced to begin with, and then you're trying to use this method. That's not really a great method. So you're compounding all of those things. You're destined for some failure there. So what's our recommendation?
00:19:32
Speaker
I recommend the table saw. Yeah, I recommend buying a jointer. Well, yeah. Or just, yeah, buy, try and buy it, buy a straight piece. Yeah, a table saw with a really nice, sharp blade on it. They sell those blades and they call them like glue line, glue line rips, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right.
Challenges in Woodworking Skills
00:19:58
Speaker
Want to read the next one while I take a little drink of beer here? Yeah, sure.
00:20:01
Speaker
Got this one from Hey Good Hardwoods on Instagram. What's been the hardest skill for you to learn and what's something new you want to learn? Well, up to this point, I'm going to say it's the shaper because I haven't really learned it yet. It's more overcoming the fear of that giant, spinning, sharp mass. Yeah.
00:20:28
Speaker
It's you know, once it's once you have that like nice contact with the cutter and you can feel it, but it's that inching up on it where you're not quite sure what's going to happen.
00:20:41
Speaker
I would say that's that's my next, you know, tool to I won't use the word master, but just become proficient with and over. Like, you know what, the way we are with all the other tools, we know what we're doing. We have confidence. That's what I'd like to feel. That's what you want to learn. Yeah. What what's been the hardest, the shaper as well, you're saying?
00:21:01
Speaker
Well, you know, I haven't really had it had much time on the shaper yet, you know, it was probably the hardest was to learn how to Joint well, you know because there's some finesse in jointing like a twist out of the face of a board you have to With nobody to teach you why the board just keeps getting thinner and thinner, you know, you have to figure out and
00:21:26
Speaker
all these things about where you should keep your your pressure and things like that. So that was probably the hardest. I'm trying to think. I don't know. I've never had a hard time with anything. Yeah. You're not. I'm just kidding. I have a hard time like that Redford character. I have a hard time with a lot of things. Hmm.
00:21:55
Speaker
I mean, I'd say design is definitely something I have trouble with. It's hard to sort of think outside of the box and come up with things that are unique. You know what I mean? And I think that's definitely something I want to learn, too. So I'll lump that into both. All right. Yeah. And I think for both of us, it just takes experience, you know, time behind the wheel is what really gets those skills sharpened up. That was a good question.
00:22:27
Speaker
So I'm going to ask this
Respect for Craftsmanship
00:22:30
Speaker
next question. I'm looking and I'm reading ahead a little bit. There's kind of two questions that are similar. It's from Connor at Fallen Oak Custom on Instagram. Where do you guys personally draw the line for woodworker? Does it start or stop at any certain point in your opinion? If so, where? Oh, side question below. It's a two-porter.
00:22:57
Speaker
So did that make sense the way I read it? Where do you guys personally draw the line for woodworker? Does he mean like, you know, like what you're doing in the shop and stuff like that? Um, like if you're pouring fiberglass into molds, are you a woodworker or if you're a CNC guy, are you a woodworker?
00:23:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess maybe you could read the second part and that may clarify it a bit. So do you consider guys who make start to finish furniture pieces using only power equipment, woodworkers? I feel like there's a muddling line now between furniture maker and woodworker. Again, it's from Connor, Fallen Oak Custom on Instagram.
00:23:43
Speaker
I'm not really good with all these labels, you know what I mean? Yeah, and we don't want to be the self-appointed authority on all this stuff, but they're asking for our opinions. Yeah, I don't know if I classify myself as a woodworker or furniture maker. I tend to say furniture maker, but I think furniture makers are woodworkers. Well, unless you were in another medium like steel or fiberglass or something like that,
00:24:12
Speaker
Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're making wood furniture. Yeah. And yeah, I'd say most furniture has at least some wood in it.
00:24:25
Speaker
It's like you said, it's a very muddled line. It's hard to answer. Yeah. Yeah. You want me to take a stab at it? Yeah. Well, yeah, well, because this will come up when you're trying to identify yourself and feel some pride in what you do and what you've accomplished. And when somebody introduces you as a carpenter or something like that,
00:24:51
Speaker
You want to say, no, I'm not a carpenter or I'm not a. Oh, yeah. And I said, well, what do you do? Like, if people ask me what I do, I say, well, I design and build custom furniture, you know, basically have a wood shop.
00:25:07
Speaker
It's not we really can label ourselves with. You know a simple. You know. One word title because I mean we wear so many hats and also because. You really have to include the design elements for us you know because that's such an integral and and big part of what we do here at Green Street.
00:25:34
Speaker
Um, but if we're talking about other people, I would say that there is, I think there should be, not should be, but there, there, for me, there is a defining line, um, only in the respect to how I feel about myself. Like I, I want to have somebody
00:25:55
Speaker
have a little bit of respect for what I do because I think it deserves it as in all vocations and in general the trades probably don't get as much respect as they've earned. People who work hard at their craft and do a good job.
00:26:15
Speaker
I'd like to have some clear understanding between folks who do what we do at the level we do it and the time and energy we've committed to it and then somebody who's, let's
Essential Power Tools in Woodworking
00:26:30
Speaker
see, you know, nailing together an Adirondack chair out of a pallet. Right.
00:26:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, to me, the line is a definitive thing. Yeah, that's why I'm saying. Yeah. Well, you know, you're probably right, then there is no. It's hard. It's nearly impossible to define like what we.
00:26:51
Speaker
Because you don't get a certificate or a degree when you complete a course of study. It's really like a case by case basis. Some people who are doing the same thing, one could be a woodworker and one's not, even though they're doing the same thing. It has a lot to do with just the particulars of the situation. So what do we say?
00:27:17
Speaker
We don't really consider people who just make start to finish furniture pieces only as woodworkers. I mean, you have to use power tools in today's day and age for the most part to make a living. Yeah. Yeah. Like I wouldn't say woodworker is only people who use hand tools only. Right. Because that's like basically no. Right. And that's and it's mostly hobby people, you know.
00:27:39
Speaker
Right. Right. And I think that's another point to differentiate ourselves from others, too, because we don't have the luxury of spending a thousand hours perfecting a piece. Yeah, there's only maybe a few dozen people in the whole U.S. who can spend that amount of time and get paid for it.
00:28:00
Speaker
Right. We have to, you know, balance, you know, our craft with the idea of making a living. I say the idea of making a living. Certainly a challenge sometimes. So, yeah, Connor, sorry we didn't have a more definitive answer for you, but that's a tough one.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah. Does it start or stop at a certain point? It's it's a little it is. He's he's on the money. It's a it's a murky situation. Yeah. Like you give me like a a really call when they want when they do like a lineup of suspects. Just give me a lineup of people I can tell you. Yes. No. But can't put a definition on it. Right. Because it's a moving line, isn't it?
00:28:51
Speaker
I don't like, I can't put my head back because of the berm of my hat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's annoying. It's going to take a little while to get used to this new setup.
Dream Tools vs. Practicality
00:29:00
Speaker
Yeah, I'm certainly uncomfortable. Yeah. Not in the, not in the comfort sense. No. Just in the... Oh, you know, because we got to turn our heads a different way. Yeah, it's like, I feel like a fish out of water. We used to have that big table, you know, the table's a comfortable setup. You know, you got your arms on it, you can lean back, you can bury in.
00:29:22
Speaker
We're a little vulnerable here. You want to stare at the bottom of my shoes? That's not so bad. No. You have to deal with it. Still trying to figure out how to talk into these mics. Yep. Don't pull that over. I'm trying. It'll be in big trouble. The problem with this is now I really want to lean back and I can't. Let me try this out.
00:29:48
Speaker
Yeah, I got my lips at the table. Can he become more uncomfortable? It's certainly happening. What do we got here next? We got a repeat offender here, Brian from St. John Woodworks. Is there a machine or tool you don't have right now that's on your wish list? Oh, yeah, that's plenty. I mean, always. You know,
00:30:19
Speaker
To work inside the shop, we'd have to have a bigger shop to like really get all the machines we want. Yeah. But you know, the thing I really want and one day hope to have. Is.
Reflections on Past Projects
00:30:33
Speaker
Forklift. Yeah. More like, you know, like a bobcat that has a bucket and forks. That's that's my dream. We can use a bucket for it.
00:30:46
Speaker
Well, the buckets for fun, you know, like just driving around. Yeah, clean, you know, clean up the driveway and stuff like that. Because, you know, with the gravel driveway, the rain, you get ruts and can move snow around in the winter time. That's true. It's snow, you know, and I could you had no rocks left, though, after that. No, no. Well, you got to leave a little skim coat of the snow. And then if I had wheels, I could drive it down, you know, Leonardville Road to your house. Oh, yeah.
00:31:17
Speaker
That's the thing. You have a bobcat, then all of a sudden you fixed everything and then you don't have anything to use it for anymore. I know, but it's just be driving, drive to the store. Oh my God. Couldn't you just see me driving that thing around? Be locked up. You'd be better off with a quad.
00:31:35
Speaker
If a quad could lift up a pallet, I'd get one. But for those few times a year where we could really use a forklift, I mean, that's the problem. We don't really need a forklift on a consistent basis. So it's probably more trouble to store it and maintain it than it's worth. But I just want it.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I can't argue with that logic. Yeah, I'd like one too. It's that logic. Well, again, it's a muddled definition. I'm starting to slouch in my chair already. Yeah, it's not going to end well. Machine or tool.
00:32:23
Speaker
You know, it's such a long list machine. I mean, I still really want to find a line boring head for that Ganymede. Yeah. And I'd like a stand up pocket hole machine.
00:32:38
Speaker
Yeah, we might even be able to like find a space for that. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, that's like an 18 by 18 kind of deal or something like that. And just having it set up all the time, you just run over it, click the foot. Like Dino's got the one with the foot switch. Yeah. So you don't even have like the one with the handles nice to the castle and the port cable, but to have a foot switch would be.
00:33:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, no, we use it all the time. Yeah And those the pocket holes are just the the mortise is way better than a Yeah, great goes pocket hole sucks straight in like that. Yeah, it has a more shallow angle So you get less movement in the boards? Yeah, I think that would be that would serve the shop well
00:33:27
Speaker
I mean, if we saw one of those come up at an auction, I'd be interested in bidding on that. We made some space in the back corner of the shop there. Yeah, there used to be some... A pile of wood. Yeah, a pile of wood. A dead wood. Yeah, it was taking up room, wasn't adding anything. No value added, as they say. Just bringing down the whole vibe. And don't ask me to get coffee.
00:34:02
Speaker
Oh, man. So is there a project that you've both worked on or individually worked on? Is there a project that you've both worked on or individually worked on that just never sat right with you, something you wish you did differently? That's from Manny, one of our patrons, also known as too many mistakes on Instagram and a good friend going to go the most recent.
00:34:20
Speaker
Did you know that those...
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, Manny, every single job at Tom's shop. You have sleepless nights? Not anymore.
00:34:42
Speaker
Yeah. Well, not everyone, you know, you did that curved hood and you were pretty well pleased with the way that came out, given your circumstances. Yeah. Because you had to take it all in context over there. Yeah. You got your hands tied. Yeah. I mean, I'll be honest, I'm not satisfied with 99.99% of the work I've done because, you know, I'm a perfectionist. So if it's not perfect, I'm not satisfied. And perfection rarely happens. So it's a tough, uh,
00:35:11
Speaker
Tough way to try and judge your own work, but you know.
00:35:16
Speaker
It never happens. I mean, sometimes, like I would say, if we just go to the job, one of the more recent ones we did, like the job that we did in Easton. Now, that job came out pretty much the way we planned it. It went pretty smoothly. But still looking at it and building it out, there were things
00:35:44
Speaker
I would have liked to done differently as I'm building. I'm like, ah, maybe these should have been like two and three quarter inches instead of three and a half inches. You're always looking at it sideways. Yeah, it's it's hard to to get perfection on a one time build. Right. Because you only have one shot. Yeah, you have to build it and then tweak it. So you just you have one shot to do it. It's, you know.
00:36:10
Speaker
And we may try and incorporate those things into the next job. And sometimes it doesn't look even though we're drawing in 3D and we have those nice programs.
00:36:23
Speaker
is sometimes in real life it doesn't quite look the same. I kind of got that feeling a little bit myself with that job even though like for all intents and purposes that job went really smoothly and went in.
00:36:40
Speaker
But like you, you know, we're we're our own worst critics. Yeah. And you don't say anything, but you're just looking at it and you're going, hey, you know, I wish I could change this. I mean, why to myself? I think if you if you look at the thing and don't have any critiques and you probably got something wrong with you.
00:37:05
Speaker
You'd have to ask somebody else. Luckily, we're both the same that way. I know Manny's like that, too. Yes, he is. Manny's his own worst critic. You're too hard on yourself, Manny. We're big fans of Manny, actually.
Choosing Reliable Tools
00:37:19
Speaker
He's a talented dude. Oh, absolutely. So the question is, is there? The answer is yes. That's a long list.
00:37:33
Speaker
You want to read the next one? Yeah, you got one from our buddy Matt. I like that name. What features were most important when selecting the power feeder?
00:37:47
Speaker
Oh, well, number one was a non Oliver. Yeah. Yeah, we we did because we started to bark up that tree and then quickly turned around. Yeah, that that that went south in a hurry and we just didn't want to sink any more money into that particular company. Yeah, no, yeah, they deserve a dime of our money. They did get some of our money back today, it seems. Yeah.
00:38:18
Speaker
We see I got two emails here. They treated us kind of poorly for the amount of, you know, effort we put into them and the patience we showed with them. So we really they had offered us, you know, a fairly good deal as far as price is concerned on a power feeder. But we we didn't. Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, it was less than
00:38:49
Speaker
Retail we'll call it. Yeah, but it's yeah. Yeah. Well, we want the retail price is very high Yeah, we went with a tried and true European maker. Yeah So I'd say the most important features were single phase Yeah, one horsepower four roller and eight speed
00:39:11
Speaker
And that's exactly what we got with the stuff. You know, made in Italy by Maji. I love those Italians. Yeah, they make a good power feeder. Yeah. The Majis were around for a long time. What's that green one? Shit. Maybe those were Majis.
00:39:34
Speaker
I forget, but there's an older, uh, you know, uh, uh, I mean, they probably still make them, but, uh, a company that used to make these green power feeders was an Italian company, even like the whole ters and stuff. I think remain Italy. Um, and even some of the American brands were like that. Don't quote me on this, but I think maybe some of the Delta's used to be made in Italy. Yeah. Um, I don't know. They got a thing with power feeders.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, if you have a factory set up for like, yeah, like basically all the Taiwanese stuff, you know, all those Taiwanese machines are coming out of the same factory with a different paint job. Yeah, unfortunately.
00:40:14
Speaker
So I think you pretty much nailed that one. You, you know, talked about the specifics. Yeah. I like the way it looks, too. It does look nice. You know, it's got ours did come with a severe blemish on it. So yeah, you know, we've got a 10 percent with us in tools, 10 percent refund coming, apparently. So we can replace it or give you 10 percent. Well, it's going to cost us money to set it back. Yeah, I know. I know. Give us a refund. 10 percent, 150 bucks.
00:40:44
Speaker
Now, man, he's big on big machines and eaters and everything. So he knows his business. He's got more machinery packed into a like a two car garage than we have in the whole shop. Yeah. He's got a lot of stuff in there. Yeah. He knows his power feeder business. Yeah. Yeah. It took a lot of recommendations from Matt and Tyler T. Ernst Berger on Instagram. And a bunch of guys I'm in a group with, um,
00:41:13
Speaker
Freddy, Justin, Tim, Chris, all those guys. Yeah. They all spoke highly of this stuff. And we're not disappointed. No, I mean, we haven't really used it a whole lot. But yeah, we're we're novices in this department, but it's it's still.
00:41:33
Speaker
Yeah, using a power feeder on a shaper is a little more involved than a table. I've only really used it on a table saw, which is just like frickin stick the board in there and it's going to feed through. Yeah, no problems there. I got one from our buddy Alex here.
00:41:49
Speaker
All right, read on. I'm planning a new outfeed table for my table saw and we'll have several drawers for storage. What are your ultimate go to drawer slides? They can be side mount or undermount. What's your top three in the drawer slide department from Alex Mitchell, 84 on Instagram. Alex sent us the beer from Tennessee way back. Oh, and the Google cluster is episode 19 or 15, something like that. Yeah, yeah.
00:42:19
Speaker
I really enjoyed those. T-shirt that's, you know, I got no sleeves now. It's... Yeah, man. Yep. Oh, wow. Live and learn.
00:42:30
Speaker
So we really only use one. I mean, we have experience with several lesser, we'll call them slides in our days working elsewhere. But we like the blooms or if you say bloom. Don't say bloom. I say bloom. Is that how they say it over there in Germany? Bloom. Austria. Austria. Yeah.
00:42:56
Speaker
I think it's pronounced bloom. Good. Good. So yeah, we like the blooms. Bloom tandems. Yeah. Which are actually made in the US. Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. North Carolina.
00:43:08
Speaker
And for the longest time, I used those 71 cent clips in the front. You know, I never felt the need for the more expensive fancy clips, but I was converted.
Designing Affordable Furniture
00:43:25
Speaker
I'm not I'm not so stuck. Yeah. I mean, even if it's a kitchen and there's twenty five drawers and so that's 50 clips, like was it 100 bucks?
00:43:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's $2 difference. That's a 3D, like there's like four levels of clear. Yeah. Yeah. I just like the ease of adjustment. Yeah. Just in case. Yeah. You know, shit happens. They put silverware in there and the drawer sags. You can crank it up a little bit or crank it to the side in and out.
00:43:57
Speaker
Yeah. For those that might not know or be familiar with what we're talking about, the Bloom undermount slides, like all of the copycats, they have these little fixtures that hook to the front of the drawer, and they hook into the sliding mechanism. And that's how you release the drawer so you can take the box out. And in the basic model,
00:44:24
Speaker
There's really not much adjustability in it just up and down. Yeah. And we always do frame inset. Yep. So, you know, you know how that could be tricky. Yeah. We we like to go anywhere between an eighth and a 16th gap around. And so, I mean,
00:44:46
Speaker
that's what we're used to. So that's really not a thing for us. We don't really need the adjustability for that. But we're, what Jeff's talking about is kind of future proofing these things. So when the drawer slide is weighed down with a hundred pounds in it, or it's reaching its maximum, you know, maybe it's, it's rubbing on the bottom or people are abusing it and slamming it.
00:45:10
Speaker
or the wood moves and everything moved up because the screws were towards the bottom. You can bring it down. Or the house settles. All these things happen. The fancier clips have all these ways to adjust the drawer face, the front edge of the box. So they're worth the extra two bucks.
00:45:32
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't even think it's that much. There they might even be less than two dollars apiece. Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:42
Speaker
So, I mean, I can't even think of another drawer slide that I would recommend. I haven't used them all for sure. You know, I'd say, yeah, the bloom tandems or the mauventos, mauventos, just like a nicer version of the tandem. But yeah, the the mauvento allows for like a touch. Oh, that's right. Touch to open, not a servo drive, but like a push.
00:46:10
Speaker
What would you call that? It's like a touch latch. Yeah. So you can add that on to the Maventos and I think they have the Maventos maybe come out even more. Yeah. Are the tandems full extension or are they three quarters? I think they're full extension. Yeah. The Maventos, I don't know. I feel like they come out more or something.
00:46:28
Speaker
That's possible. They have three segments, I think, instead of two. But again, we use the tandem so much that we don't really have, we have some maventos floating around the shop. Yeah. We bought them for something, but the maventos only come in five aces. Right, we use three quarter inch material for our drawer boxes. Yeah, you know, we've used the head itch, we've used the grass, so leachy acuride.
00:46:57
Speaker
I think Bloom Tandem is the best bang for your buck. Right. And most of our exposure with those other brands has been involuntary. It's been involuntary. And it's also been on their cheaper version of that. So I mean, I'm sure they all make a better version than the one we've had to use. Yeah, King's Slide is another one. I'm trying to think of the other brands.
00:47:28
Speaker
There's no, I think sugatsuni makes some side mounts. Did they make under mounts? I don't know. I never used them if they do. I mean, the thing with the bloom clips, the part that clips in is metal. So it's a metal on metal connection. Yeah. I think only those headaches that we were using were totally plastic. Yeah, those things were crap.
00:47:54
Speaker
So, and side mounts like with the ball bearings and stuff there, I would consider them sort of like the cassette tape of the slide.
Quality in American-made Tools
00:48:07
Speaker
I mean, they're just, there's something better now.
00:48:12
Speaker
And I don't see any reason to use a cassette tape. It's cheaper. Yeah, it is a little bit cheaper. But, you know, use at your own peril. That's what I'll say.
00:48:36
Speaker
Um, so yeah, sorry there, Alex. We don't have three, three options. We got one. Go get them. Yeah. And they're very easy to use. Yeah. That's the other thing. I mean, there, some people aren't really familiar with the installation methods. And I think that maybe puts a few people off. They don't want to make that transition, but it's, it's pretty simple.
00:49:02
Speaker
And the math to figure out like the drawer size and all that stuff is pretty straightforward. It's no more difficult than side mounts. Just a different couple of fractions. We got another one here from Manny. Manny's always got good questions. What are you guys looking forward to as far as innovations or new products that you would like to see? You got anything off the top of your head?
00:49:31
Speaker
We were talking about this the other day, the idea of some American made machines. Oh, yeah. You know, if somebody like, let's say Powermatic was to just open a factory in Tennessee and sell the machines for a little bit more and, you know, have all the parts made in the U.S. and the, you know, the whole thing, soup to nuts made in the U.S.A. And, you know, charge more. It could be the same design. Right. But just made in the U.S.A. I think people would be receptive to paying, you know,
00:50:02
Speaker
Yeah, they wouldn't have to make any investment in like redesigning the tooling or anything like that. They could basically use the same machinery they're using over there in Taiwan. Yep. Just set up a factory in Tennessee or whatever state they choose. They're still headquartered there, correct? Yeah, yeah. I just figured that seems obvious. Yeah. It'd be strange if they picked somewhere else.
00:50:29
Speaker
and, you know, employ local folks, pay a decent wage and see what the end result was. It's a big risk. They'd have to, you know, purchase the building and set it all up. And then they're going to say, all right, here you go, Jeff and Rob.
00:50:55
Speaker
We just sold you two machines now. How are we going to sell the other how many thousands of machines we need to break even. I mean to be like a boutique kind of. Yeah. The same way with like amplifiers and guitars like.
00:51:11
Speaker
you know, most of the fenders are made in China or Mexico. Yeah, Mexico is the big place now. But they have the custom shop where, the custom shop. But it's really just the stuff that's made in the USA. It's the same exact product just made in the US. Yeah, with maybe slightly better materials. Yeah. They always got to stick something in there too. Yeah, it's the same kind of idea. Like maybe they only make 500 table saws a year. You hear my son running around upstairs.
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah, I would love to see it even as an experiment. You know, I would love to see what the response would be. I'm just so curious. I mean, because we kind of like we wear these 1620 pants and that's sort of like the clothing equivalent of what we're talking about there. All the fabric is made in America and the pants, of course, are assembled and everything in America, even the zippers.
00:52:08
Speaker
So it's 100% American made. And we've gotten into it, not heated, but we've gotten into it with people who say that they're a ripoff and things like that because... Yeah, I don't know if we talked about that on a regular episode or maybe the Patreon. I forget.
00:52:27
Speaker
But you know, because people look at the price and they say they got some nerve charging one hundred and twenty eight dollars for a pair of shorts or two hundred dollars for a pair of pants or something like that. And I would.
00:52:44
Speaker
Guess that whoever says something like that never tried to run a small business on their own right and Doesn't really understand the cost of what it's Takes you know to put together quality product. That's not even just an equivalent product right reliant on You know all this super cheap overseas Yep discount thing yeah the labors would cheaper and the materials yeah, yeah, so
00:53:14
Speaker
I mean, imagine how cheap it is to make a pair of pants in China that they can sell it for a third of the price even after it travels, you know, halfway around the world through how many middlemen for transportation and all this other stuff.
Sweatshop Conditions: Then and Now
00:53:38
Speaker
Yeah, everybody down the line is making money. They got the company that makes the buttons, company that makes the zippers, company that makes the thread that they sew it with, that make the fabric and then the truck making the raw materials. Yeah, the shippers. Yeah, like it was interesting when that whole thing came out with the Suez Canal when the truck got the truck.
00:53:58
Speaker
The ship got caught in there, and I was watching something on TV. Did you know that an average toll to go through the Suez Canal is a million dollars? So that was a cost I never even realized.
00:54:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's. It's insane. So it's still, you know, like think about like buying jeans at Walmart or something. Right. What does that cost? Eight ninety nine twenty dollars. That's unbelievable. What are they making them for, like, 20 cents? Probably less, to be honest.
00:54:36
Speaker
Unbelievable. Gets the blood flowing, doesn't it? It's nice though, those workers get to live in the factory, you know, they share, they get to have bunk mates, it sounds fun. Well, you know, if they're lucky they get sent to an internment camp in the middle of the country.
00:54:51
Speaker
Maybe in another lifetime. We'll get to come back. Wouldn't that be nice? Yeah. Working in a sweatshop. Sweatshop. Yeah. You know my mom actually worked in a sweatshop. Remember you told me that.
00:55:07
Speaker
Yeah, my mom's an immigrant and when she was a kid, you know, that was back and we had good old American sweatshops in in the garment district in New York. You know, immigrants, they went to work. She was a kid and I was, you know, I'm sure the conditions were rough, but probably not. I mean, she didn't have to sleep there and stuff like that.
00:55:30
Speaker
You know, it was that was where the term sweatshop was probably first thought of as far as you know, we're concerned here in America.
00:55:41
Speaker
Oh, they have a yawn in this comfy chair. And now look at me. Business owner. Working in a sweatshop of your own. Got my own sweatshop.
Alternate Career Paths
00:55:55
Speaker
Oh, Lord. That's not true. We have air conditioning. Better move on to the next one before we say some offensive. Too late.
00:56:07
Speaker
Am I not exonerated by being related to somebody who sweated in the shop?
00:56:18
Speaker
Go ahead, read it. No, this is you. I read the last three. Oh, OK. Four. So this is from Lowcountry Modern, one of our patrons. If you guys weren't woodworkers, what would you do? Cheers. I like that. P.S., your live stream was awesome. Thank you, Lowcountry. Yeah. Yeah. You got to tell us your real name, dammit. Or if you're a collective, let's give us a couple of names. Yeah.
00:56:49
Speaker
Thank you for the live stream. It was, you know, another learning experience. Yeah. Yeah. Running an ethernet cable from the ceiling down to my computer here. Yeah, we're going to try it. Yeah. So the next one should hopefully maybe the quality will be a little bit better because we have pretty, pretty fast Internet here will be hardwired in. But looking for it. Oh, we weren't doing. I'd still be working in a restaurant.
00:57:18
Speaker
Yeah, I'd probably be a teacher. I was a teacher before I did this. Good old Kanasi High School. Yeah, if you're just tuning in and haven't caught a... Because, you know, we gave our sort of backstories. Long time ago. You know, I worked in restaurants for 10 years before I ever... I only picked up a hammer in 2012. And that's 10 years is a long time. You're only just turning 32, right?
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, I didn't even get into like any type of cabinet building until two thousand and eighteen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I built cabinets on site as a finished carpenter, but it's not the same. Yeah. And a shop. It's different. Yeah. Yeah. I taught history at the Kenosse High School. Mm hmm. Your alma mater. Yeah. You know, Kenosse is no more. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They shut the school down. Now it's like a beard oil Emporium.
00:58:19
Speaker
flannel shirts and beard oil. That's what they sell. It's a store. Now, Kenosse has not been gentrified yet. I haven't been, I haven't been back to Brooklyn in a while, but, uh, my old neighborhood is it's, it's hipster town. Yeah. Um, that's what I mean. Yeah. Hipsters are there, beard oil and flannel shirts. But, uh,
00:58:42
Speaker
Some of them are probably claiming to be woodworkers, going back to Connor's question. They're found items on the streets of New York. Did you ever see the movie Hello? My name is Doris with Sally Fields.
00:58:57
Speaker
No, that does not sound like something I watch. Yeah, it is actually a good movie. She plays like this. You know, it's somewhat current movie, so she's playing her age, which is probably 70 or something like that, maybe late 60s. And she's kind of like this idiosyncratic woman and
00:59:20
Speaker
She finds herself in this job with all these hipsters in Brooklyn and they all think she's cool because she's, you know, so so odd. Yeah. And, you know, they're putting on all these airs and it really kind of takes the.
00:59:36
Speaker
the wind out of the sails of all that stuff because they go, Oh yeah, I'm, I make these individual chocolates with sea salt from Madagascar. You know, so they make fun of all that. And she's Orlandia skit.
00:59:54
Speaker
Not like Jeff Goldblum owns that store where it's just a bunch of not. Yeah. Like doilies. But it's actually a movie worth watching, you know, especially if you want to watch it with the group, you know, you could because there's something in it for everybody. Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:16
Speaker
So yeah, I'd be teaching or maybe I would have been in Brooklyn.
Sanding Techniques and Preferences
01:00:23
Speaker
They had this thing called the rubber room. Yeah, we talked about that.
01:00:27
Speaker
I might be in the rough room. That was where if you did something wrong but the union protected you from getting fired. I routinely got called into the office for stuff but it's only fair you gotta push the boundaries as a teacher.
01:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's not something that you know, I still have friends and family teaching it's not something that I would go into now that the rigidity of it is just insane and it seems that the kids learning is Going, you know lower and lower as far as the bar. I
01:01:16
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so there you go. That's what we'd be doing. You want me to read the next one? I keep losing my spot. I got it. All right. Got another one here from CT Vader in 1977. How long do you typically sand a piece for? About 20 minutes. You knew that was coming.
01:01:40
Speaker
One guy, five minutes, 10 minutes. Yeah. Well, for the most part, we like to go to 220, you know, with our oil finishes. Yeah. Or 150 if you're not following along. Yeah. The Rubio calls for a little bit coarser, but we kind of get better results for our own purposes, going a little bit finer. Yeah. We sand it until it's done. Yeah. That's kind of the only that's the answer.
01:02:08
Speaker
You know, I remember a story that Lou told me when he was starting out. The the old guy teach them. I know this one said. Go over there and sand those pieces and Lou says, well, how long? And the old guy tells them till you start to smell garlic. So they smell like garlic. Of course, that never happened. Right.
01:02:36
Speaker
But I mean, I was surprised when I heard that people didn't sand to 220 or at least 180.
Investments for Business Growth
01:02:45
Speaker
Talking about our ex-partner? That, yeah. And just in general, you know, the people I ran into, I guess I didn't know that paint worked better with a little bit coarser. What about the over sanders? Because there's plenty of those too.
01:03:03
Speaker
Well, you mean that people like want to polish it up to a thousand? Yeah, I don't think there's much benefit to it. No. Even with an oil finish, I mean, because once you buff, you'll get more clarity out of the grain, I think, the higher you go. But there's definitely a like law of diminishing, not diminishing returns, but like at some point it stops.
01:03:30
Speaker
doing anything like it doesn't get any better. What can only get so fine. I mean you could polish it but then once the finish goes on it's gonna kind of revert back to some sort of like let's say you sand it to 2,000 and you put finish on well it might look the same as sanding to 600 yeah and again I don't know these exacts I'm sure it varies by species and stuff too
01:03:54
Speaker
That's the thing. It depends on the piece, the species, the finish. Yeah, we're not really making polished museum pieces. No, it's just not really. We're making furniture for people. There's maker's marks on our stuff and things like that. Yeah, I mean, so you got my feet on the table here.
01:04:16
Speaker
So I hope that answers C.T. Vader's question. I think you got it there. What's the next investment for the business? Speak of the Devil comes from Lou at Alvarez Woodwork.
Custom Furniture for Mass Market
01:04:31
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know.
01:04:39
Speaker
No forklift yet. We had to be moving in a lot of woods to justify a forklift. I think it's going to be small. We did a couple of big purchases. Yeah, that worked out great for us. No risk it, no biscuit. I wish I could have the last couple of months of my life back. Yeah, I don't know.
01:05:10
Speaker
We're we're set up pretty pretty good. I mean, we talk about like and this would probably be another tool that we'd only use maybe once or twice a year. But we were thinking about getting one of those little portable edge banders. Yeah. But when do you when would we use it? Like, you know, we have an edge banded. I mean, it's like a kitchen thing.
01:05:36
Speaker
right that's what it's for like doing we like to put a nice thick solid edge on the shelves but it's great for the other three sides of a shelf using solid wood edge banding it's it's it's a nice thing yeah I mean those machines will run a pretty thick edge too yeah you know then there's the the whole boring attachment for the
01:06:05
Speaker
What do you call that machine? The hinge boring machine? I'd say like some shaper tooling. Some probably get into some door profiles and stuff. Nothing big I don't think. Not unless we get a job that maybe like a vacuum bag or something like that. It all depends on what comes through the door.
01:06:28
Speaker
I think I agree with that. It's like with the Shaper. I mean, it's one of those tools you think about it. Oh, we need a shape. We need. Oh, here comes a job. Yeah. So get a shaper. Yeah, there you go. Are we on the page too? Yeah. I think this one's all you. It's a longer one came in from one of our patrons, David Shoemaker.
01:06:55
Speaker
he said to edit it, but I didn't edit it. You got it. You wrote it out nice and, uh,
01:07:06
Speaker
I agree with you that today's consumer has been trained to undervalue craftsmanship due to the plethora of cheap mass-produced furniture cabinets, etc. However, if the masses put an appropriate value on custom woodwork, the average family still wouldn't be able to afford your work. 2019 median family income was about $70,000.
01:07:27
Speaker
So here's my question. If Green Street Joinery made a line of furniture for the average family, what would it look like? Let's take a kitchen table. What would it be made of? How would it be finished? What type of joinery would be used and how much would it cost? Well, I would say my first impulse for what would it be made of is cherry or maple.
01:07:55
Speaker
I'll throw ash in there as well. Just give a different grain. Yeah. Those are three very similar, similarly priced species. We can get those materials pretty cheap. And in, you know, reasonable thicknesses. Right. Which is important for a table. Why don't you take the next
01:08:32
Speaker
you know constructed quickly and easily. So no. Through through. You know why I'm laughing because we would design something that fit this criteria and we get Bill then that first table and and you'd go and you know it would look nice. We put like a wedge 10 in here. This would really set this up.
01:08:37
Speaker
What would it look like
01:09:00
Speaker
We'd have to have some discipline if we did it. That would be number one. And it would have to be a sort of breakdown kind of thing because that's an added layer of accessibility is being able to have it shipped to your home. That would be finished. Well, you know, oil finish.
01:09:23
Speaker
you know to get a good oil finish for a table dining table is takes time. Yeah because you know how to build that up. Yeah. You know you're talking six coats or more really if you want it to be durable and you're going to sell something to people you know under this guise of affordability and convenience it needs to be something that doesn't need to be maintained.
01:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, because people are going to use anything from a sponge with just soap on it to clean it to lemon pledge. Yep. Or yeah, or worse. Those are pretty mild. Yeah. Um, so we might have to go outside of our, our normal comfort zones for finishing. Yeah. It would have to be a sprayed finish. Um, joinery.
01:10:17
Speaker
Domino connectors, something like that, I think. Not a lot of fancy cuts. No. A lot of straight lines. I like the idea of the Domino. What do you think of base style? What would you go with? Legs, trestle? It had to be four legs.
01:10:39
Speaker
with an apron yeah yeah that's probably the not even probably that's by far the easiest fastest yeah because we could make those parts and they could be all just sitting around yeah I mean trestle you get into the weight and the size and glue up you know gluing up stock into the right sizes and milling it back down and that's a whole other thing
01:11:03
Speaker
simple four legs apron and some corner braces and you're good to go. But you know, I don't think we really have any desire to do that.
01:11:16
Speaker
I mean, what could we bring? I don't even want to say the pun. What could we bring to this situation if we're limiting ourselves to a top with four legs and an apron? That's going to. Why would somebody want a table from us if that's all there is? Right.
01:11:36
Speaker
because you can't compete with the Amish or somebody like that who make, you know, real wood furniture, but they they, you know, don't get it twisted. The Amish use pocket holes and they, you know, they do things. They use a machinery. Yeah. Yeah. It's all full machine shop.
01:11:57
Speaker
They got their kids doing the simpler tasks and as you get older you're moving on. So it's a way of life and the overheads lower. I don't think it's possible that we could bring anything
01:12:14
Speaker
to bear that would that would make what we do attractive enough for somebody to opt for.
Episode Wrap-up
01:12:21
Speaker
I mean, we would have the top would be all there is, you know, this really beautiful grain matched top. The fuck those sounds like a jackhammer almost. Anyway.
01:12:41
Speaker
Yeah, I just I don't think it's possible or really I really don't have any desire to To do that it kind of goes against everything that we
01:12:51
Speaker
Without the inventive design and the distinctiveness, we don't really have much to offer somebody in that price range, like the introductory price range. Yeah, I mean, it's nothing better than you could find for the same price. Exactly.
01:13:12
Speaker
It'll just be a solid wood table at that point. That's right. It's just solid versus you might find something that's Whatever a apply wood top When we went out to Pennsylvania we went into this Ama shop they had six
01:13:31
Speaker
chairs and a dining table, solid wood, walnut base, walnut frames on the chairs with spalted maple, you know, spindle backs. I mean, it was beautifully done. Yeah. Twenty five hundred bucks for the whole set. Yeah. I was joking with Jeff. I said one chair is twenty five hundred bucks from us. Yeah. Be twenty five thousand. Maybe more for us to build up. Probably more.
01:14:00
Speaker
And they probably make that set in their sleep. Yeah. But that's you know it's a mass produced. Yeah. But he's right. You know we're we're in niche.
01:14:13
Speaker
niche company. That's it. We bring people's thoughts and ideas to life. Somebody comes to us and says, yeah, I really want something that's all my own that fits here in my house. And it does X, Y and Z. And that's our specialty. Right.
01:14:37
Speaker
So yeah, I mean, we're not marketing towards the masses or, you know, the median, the median family can't compete in that arena. And yeah, they,
01:14:48
Speaker
You're going to have to lift mountains to try and get the average person to sort of appreciate what we do. They're too busy trying to pay the bills like we are. That's it. We don't charge a lot because we want to. This is what it costs. Exactly. We're like 1620 pants. This is how much it costs to make stuff here. You want it? This is how much it costs. We're not rich.
01:15:14
Speaker
No, not even close. I went shopping for I'm starting to shop for a new truck. I can't even really afford it. So that's that. I think this is the end of our first show here. We're going to talk about the beer of the week. Yeah.
01:15:34
Speaker
I'm still sipping on mine. It was okay. I like it. Yeah. It was all right. Nothing special. A letdown for me from a Keller. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's, it's definitely different from the other IPAs that we've had. Um, yeah, I don't know. It just, it wasn't a, we got a visitor in the, in the studio. No, we better not.
01:16:00
Speaker
Don't even invite anybody. Yeah, I don't know. I expected more from McKellar. All right. Well, since I had no expectations, I guess that's the way to go into these things. Well, I'm familiar with McKellar, so that's a distinction. Yeah, I had the boss sit kind of low. What did we have last week? The Kitsuna. Yeah, that was good. Yeah. How would you stack it up against that?
01:16:30
Speaker
That was way better than this. Yeah. Yeah. I think one day we're going to have to have like a little a flight, you know, and bring on like a best of kind of thing. You know, we'll go back. We'll have to go back and do some research. And get four or five of our favorites. And taste them side by side. Sounds like a lot of work. Come on, we could do it.
01:17:00
Speaker
You're OK. You handle it. I can handle it. I would need I probably need just from you the names. You're going to have to go back to all the episodes and figure that out. All right. You know, my memory is I don't have you think I have a list. No, I have to do exactly that. You'd be careful. I'm going to put that on a longboard. Thirty, thirty four episodes. You're going to go back. And then we're going to do a blind taste test.
01:17:30
Speaker
Oh, that's going to be easy with two people and nobody that's not blind. Well, you know, it'll just be. There'll be no names on anything and we'll have to pick who's going to pour them. Oh, yeah. I wasn't thinking ahead, was I? You don't want to drink four beers anyway. No, I can't. They would be like the little the little glasses like they give you at the flights. You know, we'd have to pour out the other half of the beer. Yeah, it would be kind of wasteful.
01:17:59
Speaker
Yeah, I knew a guy that used to drink a lot of beer. We could have him come drink the half-empty ones. He's not into this kind of beer. That's true. He goes to old man bars. Yeah. Schlitz. Paps. Tap only. Does paps make a light beer? I think it's already light.
01:18:23
Speaker
Well, I got to go to the bathroom. So does that mean it's time to go? It is. We're going to say thank you to the gold tier patrons, Jerry Green and David Murphy, Manny Sirianni, Dustin Fair, Adam Pothast, David Shoemaker and Colin Lai. All right. We'll have the tool of the week down in the description, the beer and cheers. Yeah. Cheers.
01:19:05
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a chain