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We watch "The Cloud" (S1 Ep.6)
42 Plays2 years ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching “The Cloud” in which the crew encounters a living organism in a nebula while searching for energy reserves to power the ship. After accidentally injuring the nebula, the crew must find a way to repair the damage and heal the organism, while also dealing with personal matters such as morale and finding one's animal guide.
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Transcript
Introduction and Initial Amusement
00:00:00
Speaker
And on that tantrum, let's begin. I mean, I do love the fact that we start this podcast with the sentence and on that tantrum without giving any context whatsoever. And that is the way it shall stay. Yes, that's our story and we're sticking to it.
Discussion on Star Trek: Voyager 'The Cloud'
00:00:16
Speaker
Um, but yeah, so I guess this week we watched season one, episode five, The Cloud. Yeah. I was like, when I saw that title, I was like, this doesn't bring back any memories. I guess maybe because of it.
00:00:29
Speaker
I just remember the story. I did not remember that title at all.
00:00:34
Speaker
The title batched the story very much, because at first it was always nebula, then they discovered what it actually was, which I won't say yet, but neither of them were clouds. You guys have just absolutely ruined my sort of one-sentence sum up of the episode, because you've opened up a new and completely different potential line of how to summarise this in Gritius, and
00:01:02
Speaker
totally disrespectful fashion. And you've ruined this for me. I'm sorry. Well, Danny, do you want to give us, I think you already had two summaries before you said before the call. Do you want to give us those two now? You can always bring them away. Give us the final word at the end. Okay.
Episode Humor and Plot Highlights
00:01:17
Speaker
So I think I had about three. So the first one was, Janeway endangers crew and puts health of endangered undiscovered species at risk due to coffee deprivation.
00:01:31
Speaker
The second one was Janeway Hustles. Kim gets corrupted by aging French lady of negotiable affection and Neelik single-handedly makes the case for caffeine dependency. But now given the fact it's the cloud, I'm just like, what the hell? Starfleet sells out and buys sponsorship rights for cloud-based marketing.
00:01:57
Speaker
I'd say your summaries are brilliant. You cover a lot of the, or you capture a lot of me. It's a lot of ground to cover. Of course, you know, 45 minutes and I've got to capture equally and equally disrespectfully. But yeah, I just want to say, I think Neelik says what I said in the last episode, which is like, Janeway will sacrifice the many to save the few. I think what he actually says is Janeway just wants to go and look under every single rock and just put this ship in danger at every opportunity.
Star Trek Books and 'Tricorder' Debate
00:02:27
Speaker
Um, yeah, I just before we begin, actually, sorry, I should have said this before, but my friend bought me these three Star Trek books from a second shop in Embra. Awesome. One is a, um, Deep Space Nine one. Oh, no. Um, and guys.
00:02:45
Speaker
Do you know how tricorder is spelled or pronounced? Because I have been wrong my whole life. C-R-I-C-O-R-D-E-R. I have wondered because they seem to pronounce it differently every time. But yeah, I think I think if I was going to bet, I guess I'd have to go with Jamie's as well. But I really have no idea. That's not where I was leaning. I was leaning to tricorder, not like recorder as in tricorder. But that's what it is.
00:03:14
Speaker
So it's a quarter as in like quarter of an hour. No, no, that's what it's about. Red thought it was. Red thought it was a quarter, but I thought it was a quarter as in, we're gonna record this on three different bandwidths. That makes sense, but they pronounce that D like a T. Yeah, it definitely changes. And that C like a Q, I agree.
00:03:34
Speaker
Um, but yeah, let's, let's start.
Janeway's Leadership Struggles
00:03:36
Speaker
So, um, I think we open with the captain giving a personal log and it's like several weeks into the journey. So I guess time has passed since the last episode. And I have a question already. What do you make of the bit where she says, cause I, I just want to see if this is what I think is as well. If you guys got the same impression when she says, and so I have to be larger than life. And then she says,
00:04:00
Speaker
Delete that last entry. Yes. Well, she says delete the last sentence. And I think the actual sentence she's getting deleted is, I don't know if I can, not, I have to be larger than her. Okay. It's the moment of self-doubt. She's like, I don't doubt. And I'm a bit like, oh, that's a bit of toxic masculinity going in there. You know, the whole not acknowledging your doubt. Yeah.
00:04:26
Speaker
Because I thought I was missing something there. I was like, why is she deleting? Is it because she's embarrassed that she thinks she has to be knowledge and life? But that didn't really make sense. Thank you for clarifying, Jamie. That makes more sense. But then I do think it's the
00:04:42
Speaker
beginning of the episode is every reason why we hate or grudgingly, in my case, are starting to love Neelix, because he starts off his interaction with the captain with some completely inappropriate, frankly- Can we just backtrack?
Coffee Quest and Crew Example
00:04:59
Speaker
I just want to skip over an important moment. So she's having that kind of like personal conversation where she's like feeling, I guess, that she can't be her usual captain self.
00:05:08
Speaker
because they're not in the usual situation. It's more than a crew, she needs to be more than a captain, but she doesn't really know how. She needs to connect. But then also, I guess, other people are grappling, because the next thing we see is like she goes to speak to Tom and Harry in the mess hall or something, and there's that kind of awkward banter. And when she walks away, Harry feels like they should have asked her to sit down, and Tom is like, she doesn't want friends, she wants respect. So he's sticking to like this kind of standard operating procedure. Yeah.
00:05:38
Speaker
And then, but Harry's like, I like his length. He's like, I think you're working from an old rule book, old rule book, Paris. So yeah. And then I think for me, this was kind of like the theme of the, the episode is like how to act now, but there's like lots of little points where that comes up. And I think the next one is with Neelix, as you say, Jamie. So she enters the kitchen trying to look for coffee and he gives her like a talking to.
00:06:05
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's, it starts off with like some casuals. Um, I don't know, physical objectification of, you know, captain, you look beautiful today. It's lipstick. I may, I mean, maybe that's him trying to put her off the center of the fact that there's no longer any coffee, which frankly, if I was in his shoes, I would try and do, but also sounds like more subtlety than I give him credit for on this podcast. I mean, I have to agree, but, um,
00:06:33
Speaker
thoroughly channeling the Janeway vibe in this scene though, because I think if someone started trying to compliment me first thing in the morning before I had my coffee, that would do the opposite of help. I get more and more frustrated at the lack of coffee. I'm not sure news excuses.
00:06:48
Speaker
she hasn't had her coffee he denies it to her he tries to mansplain to oh you'll love this substitute which is blatantly brewed from some weird tilaxian tree root that is clearly going to give her intense gastrointestinal distress
00:07:07
Speaker
And then when she tries to do what any reasonable human would do of pulling rank and allowing themself a privilege that the rest of their crew can't have so that she can have her coffee, he tries to say, you have to set an example, Captain. How do you expect everyone to get used to life-grown
00:07:27
Speaker
have food if you don't and I mean he's the worst because he's right and the fact he's right actually makes him even more the worst because he's just been a total tool up to that point. Especially after in the last episode was it where he was a massive liability? I mean I think he's a bit of a liability this one. Jamie you are quite soft. I don't know if you're soft with Jamie is there anything you can I mean it's probably fine for the recording I'm just striving to
00:07:56
Speaker
Turn up the volume. Oh, I'm turning down the volume on my. Yeah, I'm sure it's fine. I just want to let you know, just maybe Jamie, maybe it's not the case with Jamie. So maybe it's just my side. Um, am I audible or too loud still? No, you're perfect. You're very clear. But yes.
00:08:22
Speaker
I think I kind of was, you know, I love Jane Lee, let's not get me wrong, but I'm not a hierarchical person. So when she just assumes that she can use, as you describe, her highest status to, that gives her the right to like replicate some coffee. I'm like, no, it doesn't. I'm in half agreement with Neelix here.
00:08:46
Speaker
But then that scene also does finish with a very funny line where she's like, okay fine, give me your even better than coffee substitute or whatever. And she takes it and he pours that gloopy coffee up the market. Looks pretty bad. It does, doesn't it? But luckily she's summoned to the bridge. Yes, there's an umbrella.
00:09:10
Speaker
Yeah.
Nebula Exploration Decision
00:09:11
Speaker
And there's a fantastic line there, which, you know, summarizes the reason for all command decisions in this entire episode. Oh, yes, I think we know you had because they found jacortes says they found a nebula. Hmm. With Omicron particles in it. High concentration flashbacks of PTSD when they said Omicron. No, no, no, no, no, I can understand why they are the variant that prevents you from going to South Africa. So
00:09:40
Speaker
I was thinking it was some kind of reference to some kind of Transformers movie. Yeah, it sounded like a hostile Decepticon. And then your sister started calling it shouldn't we, you know, personified a bit cuddly Omicron. Oh, yeah, she thought it sounded cuddly. I think I'm with new Jenny, like the trance. I was like, why are they like making it sound? I mean,
00:10:07
Speaker
Like a terrifying Transformer. Yes, exactly. Why does it sound like a terrifying Transformer? This thing is a Decepticon that transforms into a Putinist Russian stealth bomber.
00:10:19
Speaker
It's probably like a Greek alphabet letter or something, isn't it? I don't know. I'm just randomly guessing. And in this case, the Omicron particles can help with their depleted energy reserves. That's my main takeaway. And so what does Janeway say? Janeway takes the decision to go in and mine it with the immortal line, there's coffee in that nebula.
00:10:41
Speaker
I made a notion of are we taking command decisions because Captain Pooze hasn't had her morning coffee there. And then I decided that that was disrespectful. So I tried to delete it, but it wouldn't go. So it's not my fault. I said it here. You don't know how to delete a note from your... Not when it's that good a comment. Just not capable. I think I wanted to take your side and explain to you my feelings around jokes to do with human stuff.
00:11:08
Speaker
Really? To do with humaning. Humaning. But then we have, yeah, we have the theme tune, and then we're back on the bridge. She's having a little private conversation on the bridge. She's worried about the crew. It's sort of weird, because she sort of comes to optimistically, and there's this counterpoint of, that should raise some spirits. And she's like, there's no way to go but up, like, oh my goodness, are things even worse than they seem at the start?
00:11:39
Speaker
I think the segue here is a bit weird as well, because then they veer off into a conversation about his spirit animal, and he's going to help her find her spirit animal. I kind of news the track of the story a little bit here. I'm like, oh, no, we're back to the nebula. There's a lot of story going on.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah. I know. It's
Janeway's Spiritual Journey
00:12:00
Speaker
kind of cool, though, because she's sort of complimenting, she compliments Chiquote on, well, she says, we need a counsellor, and we didn't think that we'd have one for the social mission, so we didn't bring one. She says, oh, I talk to animals. We talk to animals instead. That's how we deal with it. And it transpires that this is a Native American practice that Chiquote indulges in.
00:12:26
Speaker
which he calls the equivalent of Carl Jung's act of imagination technique to basically substitute for that with a spirit guide. And then I think Janeway immediately says, yours is a bear. I can't tell you my animal guide name or what it is because it would get offended. And then they decide to basically have a date in or not a date. But would you find out there's animal guide as a woman and that she guides him very well?
00:12:56
Speaker
we do. Yes, female. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, I love the line there. Because it's so like, I don't know, it's almost like there's a starting to be sexual tension between them where he's sort of talking very closely, you know, leaning in towards are talking about how his spiritual guide is, is a woman, you know, who's female, and she's obviously the
00:13:21
Speaker
captain of the starship leading them. She's female too. And then she's complimenting him how he's a bear to her and it's all getting a bit, ooh, what's going on here? I'm so glad you said that because when he offers to help her determine or find her, she says, you've got a date. Or you've got whatever, you've got a date. And have you heard of a concept, JC Shippers? No.
00:13:50
Speaker
I think that's what it stands for. Those are all the people that either really wanted them to get together or believe that they actually were together. Like, yeah, there's always people that obviously were rooting for the Janeway-Chicote relationship. There was definitely a sort of storyline there in the first few seasons before, you know, certain other characters came along where you thought they might get together, didn't you? But I think, I don't know, there was, I mean, it's way in the future, but then there's this whole episode where
00:14:18
Speaker
it sort of starts to become a sort of, it's almost like they're suggesting that, no, that can't ever happen because of their positions and because they're such good friends and, you know, it sort of gets shut down. I mean, all of those things are telling me exactly why it could happen. Also, it would be like mummy and daddy fighting sort of thing.
00:14:39
Speaker
Omicron is in fact the 15th letter of the Greek alphabet. I looked it up because I was like, I have to know now how I've thought about it. I did actually look up a Nicole Young Act of Imagination thing but then didn't read the article so I cannot contribute. I'm intrigued by that as well. I don't know what that is.
00:15:01
Speaker
I gather that it was a technique pioneered by the Austrian School of Psychology, which effectively used the act of imagination of a counsellor or of some sort in order to aid in the psychological calming of the patient.
00:15:26
Speaker
Okay. I didn't really tell you what it was. Yeah, I just made it up. It's a guided meditation where you imagine someone... Anyway, another... I'm not sure that Jung was really into guided meditation. Anyway, it was all a bit eatable back then. Imagination. Okay, so back... Sorry, Jenny, back to the... So, they're approaching the nebula and everything kind of seems fine.
00:15:51
Speaker
And they set the course for the concentration of Omicron particles. Yeah, but there's a wonderful moment, isn't there? Because Harry Kim gives voice to a comment and there's some very un-Starfleet-like discipline going. Harry Kim says something along the lines, wow, I've not seen anything. Tuvant goes, that is a comment I would prefer not to hear said publicly. It will distract and disturb the junior staff.
00:16:15
Speaker
Yes, not said by a senior staff member. I thought this might be a bit that you loved, Red, because the sort of packaging to book your favourite character. Yeah, it's my favourite. But I did like that kind of the effect of this like private through the through the comm link conversation. I was like, I've never thought it like, that's probably happening all the time. I mean, that was like, interesting. Probably so much side on the bridge. It's ridiculous.
00:16:42
Speaker
Uh, and then I think, again, I made a note here because I was like, I think this is like, everyone trying to figure out what is the right way to behave now on this, like new normal, because Janie was trying to figure it out. Neelix knows how she's supposed to behave, but she's going to figure it out. Tuvok is like, oh, you should behave like that. And Harry's just like, uh, I mean, I would say what's wrong with expressing wonder, you know, like something, you know, it's like, no, you should be disciplined adoption.
Adapting to New Social Norms
00:17:06
Speaker
Um, and you know, Harry wanted to include,
00:17:12
Speaker
Um, Jamie, uh, you know, in their kind of social gathering. So it was like trying to figure this out and doesn't quite know how to act. And they can't act like a, I think if they, what I realized is like, I would hate it on a standard star ship because I hate hierarchy, but I like Voyager because they become more like, you know, a family or like friends, but Jamie, we can hear you typing. Sorry.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, I know. I'm just saying something that's incredibly wanky about how they should deal with the situation, which I'd like someone else to read out. But yeah, so I just thought that was like another interesting moment. And then I kind of, it's funny later on when Harry gets to slap back or whatever the term is, clap back. Yeah. Yeah. Never seen anything like it. I wouldn't tell the staff.
00:18:00
Speaker
Yeah. But then basically they hit like an energy barrier of some kind, which I just described as they punch through. So they get this whole force themselves through. And once they are through on the other side, that hole that they created poses behind them, which I guess they were not expecting.
00:18:21
Speaker
Then they segway onto Neelix, don't they? Neelix and Kez, because Neelix realises they're in the middle of a nebula and is basically smart enough to go around nebulas. They're natural born idiots.
00:18:38
Speaker
Yeah, when kids are like, they're natural born explorers. And the way he delivers that line, these people are natural born idiots. It's just very, very funny. And he does, and I put here in my notes, to be honest, he does have a point about them trying to engage the specter of death at every opportunity. And then, I mean, I can tell you what I've written down in my notes about what happens next, but it's it's a bit crude.
00:19:07
Speaker
Maybe I just say they kiss because they're romantic and they're nebula. They kiss and then everything goes to shit. The entire starship starts sort of losing energy and systems. They try and exit and they're sealed inside. They try and blast their way out with phasers and no, not a thing. Is this the point as well where they have the little somethings are attaching themselves to the outside of the ship and they don't know what they are? Yeah, like antibodies.
00:19:37
Speaker
Um, yes, I think also importantly, I feel like I don't know if this is a misremembering, but we learned at this point that they have 38 photon torpedoes, which I think is like the most powerful weapon. They can't, they can't like replicate them. So I have a feeling like as you can watch through the series, you see that number go down and down and then, you know, you realize, oh, they're running out of these photon torpedoes. Um.
00:20:01
Speaker
But I might be misremembering that, but as all this is happening, they're just losing more and more of the power reserves. So I did enjoy Janeway's line again, which is like, this is not what I had in mind. We try to fix a problem and it gets worse. This is not what I've got.
00:20:21
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, Jamie, I think you summarized that well, because I wasn't quite sure what was going on. I mean, they're trying to get out, they're trying to reverse, eventually, like, I guess, fire their way out. That's what it looks like. Yeah, getting sort of blocked in on a Saturday night at the pub in the dark, desperately trying to turn your car around and just being unable to, and people getting in the way and stuff as you get out and all of that. And then someone says, it's as thick as a Torian ice storm out there.
00:20:49
Speaker
Oh, yes, that was Paris. I like that. I always like those lines when they just make it slightly alien. And you're like, you know, as in like from another planet, that's not what it's like. Oh, yes, there is space. I think of them as get your own taunt on lines. But anyway.
00:21:02
Speaker
What does that mean? It's a reference to Star Wars and also Robot Chicken in which they sort of parody the famous scene in which Han Solo saves Luke Skywalker by, you know, cutting open a Tonton and putting him inside it to, you know, keep him warm. In which it's starring cartoon and he cuts open the Tonton and then there's someone already in there who goes, get your own damn Tonton.
00:21:29
Speaker
And I just sort of think about it as a reference to a piece of Indigenous life that is not native to our world, but is used to give referential context as a metaphor in a fantasy universe. Interesting. Just get your own tauntaun moment. Okay, I see. But yeah, so now the ship is like, like it's covered in those globules or things. But we go to
00:21:56
Speaker
This was a bit of a random scene for me. We're like Harry Kim's quarters and he's sleeping. He's very like, you know, sleeping on his back.
00:22:04
Speaker
No, no, no, we've we've missed the most important bit though, because literally just just as they get out, the captain moments herself as an aside, I'm gonna have to give up coffee, aren't I? And then we segue to a sleeping Harry Kim, who has the most incredibly perfect skin imaginable. I mean, I genuinely was like, is this a supermodel lying here as they segue onto his face with a blindfold? I did tell you he was nominated.
00:22:33
Speaker
most beautiful person people magazine one year. So yeah. But that music was very sinister. And then it was just Tom that was there to wait for. I agree. I thought that maybe it was going to be one of these episodes where some alien had
00:22:48
Speaker
presence over Tom and was going to try and don't hurry or sinister but actually i i think given what happens it is a little bit sinister because if you allow me to say what happens next or bread yeah so he's taken from this sleep innocently sleeping under you know his uh eye mask of purity and chastity and he's
00:23:16
Speaker
Tom Paris's hologramatic French house of low repute slash brother. I think it's just a French bar but yeah it's definitely got a sort of house of ill repute vibe about it. I mean he said it's a French bar but he's programmed at least two hologramatic women to basically be
00:23:42
Speaker
just effectively trying to... And one man. And one man to be doing what Lesser Kenny problems would describe as wheeling him. One of whom is a slightly older, more experienced lady, who is Saint-Rien, and then sort of femme fatale, French resistance in a trench coat sort of figure, who they appear to be having an ongoing fight over here, in Paris.
00:24:12
Speaker
Um, and he includes Ricky in all his hollow programs, uh, followed by the line from Ricky, your friend, the gigolo won't leave me alone. Yep. Um, my, the most exciting moment for me was when, um, Sandrine asked Harry if he wants to drink and he asked for tea and Paris is like very upset about this. And then we find out about holographic wine. Does holographic wine not give you a hangover? No, it doesn't give you a hard one. Amazing. Yeah.
00:24:40
Speaker
And we also find out that in the Star Trek universe in Marseille, France, the pickpockets pick your pocket for the touristic experience and normally give the money back. I wish that bit. Oh, yes. And also, I mean, we didn't learn that there was that kind of fitness base or base in Marseille. But I have heard French people say Marseille is terrible. I haven't been.
00:25:08
Speaker
But they also have the world's greatest hustlers there with a pool player with a toothpick constantly stuck in his face. Yes, did you recognise the guy I've gone to Gary? Yes. Genuinely recognised him from. Well, it took me a while, quite a while to work it out. But I think, I think, is he that dude from Friends? Yes! Mr. Heckles! Mr. Heckles, that was it, yeah. Took a while. Mr. Heckles. Trying to work it out.
00:25:36
Speaker
their downstairs neighbor who's like always banging on the ceiling. Oh, yeah. Oh, awesome. Also, I did like that when Tom was explaining why there was this cool pool player. He was saying how Santorino tracked the best pool hustlers of the whatever century. And I was like, oh, that's a little bit foreshadowing to later. But I only realized that when I watched it the second time.
00:26:05
Speaker
Is that because they used ancient medical techniques later on? No, no, because they get hustled. The Star Trek crew get hustled later by a certain character. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the final scene. Yeah. Oh, yes, yes. I see where you're going at. She's like one of the greatest hustlers in the world. I summarise that scene quite nicely later on. Okay, good. I look forward to it.
00:26:32
Speaker
So I think there's anything else to say about Sandrine's before we move to engineering? It's a glossy joint. That's great. I've got it. I'm just the end of the proprietor. She seems kind of aggressive. Terrifyingly predatory, I think is the phrase. That's all I have to say. That's all there is to see here. Then the next scene we kind of have
00:26:59
Speaker
Bolana just did some testing engineering. She obviously has some kind of light bulb movement. It takes her sample of the residue to the doctor, but they have a little banter.
The Doctor's Humorous Critique
00:27:10
Speaker
There is. The doctor's very patronising. Why did you think you came up here? And she gives some scientific explanation and she goes up to a certain point and then goes, you were doing so well. Yeah, he's so arrogant. I'm going to say I love him.
00:27:28
Speaker
I love that whole scene. I think the dog is bloody brilliant again in this. And I just, in particular, love the delivery of the line around her saying, well, why don't you change your program? And his sort of comment, hmm, a hologram that can program itself. What would I do with this ability? Raise a family, create an army. It's just a brilliant comeback. It's so good.
00:27:55
Speaker
Uh, but also when he was like, when he finds out they were in a nebula, he's like, what we're in a nebula. Oh, he's like, wait, don't tell me we were exploring or something exploring again. I've talked to them about this bad habit of theirs. But it did make me think about my kind of fear of flying and being like, I wish I could just like get on the plane, fall asleep and then just wake up. You know, be like, Oh, we were flying. That would be awesome. That'd be so good.
00:28:27
Speaker
So despite being super arrogant, he does find something interesting, but we don't find out just yet. We zoom to another interesting moment of Chakotay and Al Capitan. Yes. So he's brought her his medicine bag for their date to help her find her animal guide. And the skipper has taken her back. She goes, now, now.
00:28:52
Speaker
No, but before that, he tells her how he's never shown it to anyone before. So maybe I'm reading too much into it. No, I don't think you are, but also your headset with reading too much interest. Maybe we should go from HR specific focus to a total innuendo focus for the next few episodes. Um, I haven't come to any of my Jamie notes yet. But again, I think it's, um, the scene is okay. Yes, there's obviously, I would agree there's a bit of a,
00:29:25
Speaker
Just to finish my thought. I think it's also when he wishes like, okay, and then he moves to the floor, and she assumes they're going to do it like after, you know, her, her at the desk. And again, it's like a very intimate thing to do. They sitting where they would not normally sit. I think they would not normally do on a normal mission.
00:29:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Well, probably people do get it on on a normal mission. I mean, I assume no one in Star Trek has sex with me. But I felt it was just like, more casual, you know, like moving to the floor, doing this, kind of sharing this intimate ceremony was, yeah, just another bit about this whole adapting to this. Yeah.
00:30:12
Speaker
But then she has. So do you want to explain either one of you what happens with their the animal guide ceremony? Well, Jim? Well, I can think I can remember enough about this one. Yeah, I'll go. So he's getting out his little sort of without sounding too condescending
00:30:32
Speaker
trinkets that help you. That bird's wind, a stone from a river, an acuna, which I have no idea what it is. Well, that was the most interesting one because then you're like, what is that? And he's like, well, they used to use ancient herbs, which are basically like psychedelic drugs from the rainforest, presumably. How dare you. They have a new way to do it now. So it's some kind of electronic device that it
00:30:55
Speaker
Um, gives that same sort of, I guess, hallucinogenic effect, but electronically instead of, um, biologically, which is interesting concept. I guess it's a bit like holographic wine, you know, it can get you drunk, but without any of the actual physical effects. It was quite interesting. And so then he guides her, um, and she starts visualizing being in a place where she can see her animal.
00:31:20
Speaker
And I think I find the incantation that he uses actually quite beautiful in its way. We are far from the places of our ancestors, but perhaps there is some creature that will look favorably upon our quest and lend their aid. And I find that really quite beautiful, actually. Yeah, I think it's nice. And I think it comes up again at the end. So this time it's like, will help her, I think, with her quest.
00:31:45
Speaker
Was anyone surprised by her animal? It doesn't matter. First, before we jump to the animal, let's describe what happens. The incantation is made. The captain enters her spirit quest trance and wakes in a forested cliff, I think, by a seashore. And she looks around and is told by Chakotay, whoever the first animal as you see, speak to it. That is your guide. And she looks around
00:32:16
Speaker
And what does she see, Jenny? A little lizard. Beautiful lizard. It is a beautiful lizard and it's quite big for a lizard, but it is very small for the sort of creature you would have thought was the captain's spirit guide. Well, I had to laugh when I saw it because I had forgotten and then I was like, it's a salamander. Oh, definitely the salamanders then.
00:32:43
Speaker
No, no, no, it's, but it's, um, cause I was like, Oh, great. I mean, obviously, cause also when I listened to adult suppliers, they're like, Oh, it's a salamander. It's like foreshadowing later, but I'm not sure that's actually the case. Cause it's when I looked on like Wikipedia, it's actually a gecko. Um, but I was surprised by the, uh, quite big, aren't they? I think you're thinking of, um, Oh, there's horrible giant lizards that I have nightmares about. Committed dragons. Yes. Alligators.
00:33:13
Speaker
I mean to be fair Chigote does say early on that your spirit animal is not it's not so to describe your personality in like some kind of buzzfeed quiz or something like what is your animal it's it's just that is the animal that chooses to be your guide. I was expecting that some kind of you know strong you know leadership like animal you know like a lion or something.
00:33:42
Speaker
Ironically, and this maybe proves that red spheres are justified, I put Komodo dragon into YouTube, and five things came up all going how to survive a Komodo dragon attack. Okay, so it's not an irrational fear.
00:33:57
Speaker
And then 15 merciless Komodo dragon swallowing animals. Top five Komodo dragon hunting with a Komodo dragon chasing a deer. Komodo dragons freak Bilbo out. Brutal hunt Komodo dragon swallows wild boar. Okay, okay. Yeah, I can understand. I'm starting some deep dives on these podcasts where we deep dive into the running subject that comes up due to this episode.
00:34:27
Speaker
Red, you're gonna do your spirit quest and you're gonna find your spirit guide is a Komodo dragon, but a really, really gentle one who's all like, you have irrational fears and prejudices around my species. I will choose to speak to you to prove them wrong. You will feel bad every time we talk. That is how I guide you. Sorry? Oh, my spirit guide to be a cat. What? Well, yeah, my cat spirit guide is gone. What's that Jenny? Mine would be an otter.
00:34:56
Speaker
Oh, um, but there, she doesn't get to ask the gecko salamander lizard her question because they're interrupted by Balana who's there to tell them that the, um, residue is organic. So what I thought was kind of interesting is that like, um, well, just a little thing, but Jamie's like, ah, like microscopic organism. She's like, no, small bits of a big organism.
00:35:23
Speaker
And then you're like, oh, it's just like changes everything. Yeah. Yeah. It's like also you find out the code is done the whole medicine bundle thing with the Lana. Yeah. And I think we're really approaching that interaction in the wrong thing. The key thing to me is not that they nearly killed a massive interplanetary sized creature. I think the actual key thing about that is when
00:35:49
Speaker
Balana comes and it's like, why are they both doing sat on the floor together? And then it's like, the captain says really coyly and bashfully, Chakotay was just introducing me to my spirit, to my spirit animal. And Chakotay goes, yeah, yeah. Balana is quite remarkable in that, Balana is the only person I've ever met who tried to kill her spirit guide animal.
00:36:17
Speaker
makes sense for her character. Well, it makes sense in how they're portraying her. So then we're back to the bridge and they're trying to assess the damage to the life form. And there was that funny bit where the dog, she says something like, Jamie's probably going to be able to quote this line, but
00:36:37
Speaker
She's like, oh, I want to know how much damage we did. And the doctor's like, well, I shot it with a torpedo. It's probably just quite damaged. Filed faces, a far torpedo is out of it. I'm going to say it's a probably yes. And so she mutes him and then he's still like in the background though. And that's just so good. Cause he's like, I'm just looking around waiting, waiting. And then when he starts waving his arms, it was very funny. But he, he points out when he's unmuted,
00:37:06
Speaker
that this creature can probably regenerate if it's given some help. That's where he chooses the ancient earth practice of a suture. Not quite yet. Not quite yet. So they realize that they can fire a nucleonic beam. That should help. And then we go back to the mess hall and Niex is finding out that they're heading back into the nebula.
Neelix Challenges Janeway's Authority
00:37:34
Speaker
So he doesn't react that well.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah. No, he doesn't, does he? There's a little bit of outrage and gammoning that he's going to go and put the captain right. He barges into the skipper's office and basically says, I'm not going into that again. And the captain basically
00:38:00
Speaker
says once he's provoked her saying the nebula's a monster you're going back into the belly of that beast um and the captain basically says uh you don't get to jump off and stand on the roadside every time we hit a road bump now if when we're finished you want to leave that's your business but otherwise find yourself a seat because like jonah the well you're going in
00:38:30
Speaker
I had this visual image of him, you know, like a drop and roll out of a moving car, like him to like roll out of Voyager. Yeah. But actually what he wanted was just to wait in his ship and then for them to come back and fetch him when they were done. That's a bit cheeky. On the other hand, he has, well, I don't know, because I
00:38:54
Speaker
with the crew or you're not. You know, you can't just bail when it gets dangerous and then they come fetch you with the dangerous. Anyway. Um, but yeah, that was funny scene when she did just kick him out of her office. Um, so we're back on the bridge and they reentering the nebula, which seems to have like quite some immunity against them because of the reaction is stronger than before. I just realized that now. Yep.
00:39:24
Speaker
So because it's like, it's self defense mechanism is what like harms, harms the ship. Yeah. Yeah. Any mean system. Yeah. Um, and then kind of when everything settles down again, they deeper in the nebula. Um, and they figure out, it seems to react to their propulsion system. So every time they have to figure out how to like maybe move without their engines. And then she has the genius idea of realizing that this creature has a circulatory system. Oh, yeah. So fast.
00:39:54
Speaker
Well, I think Tom Parris uses the word just so that to get to the wound. I have a science question, because of course... Oh, actually, I wonder if you have the same one. Go ahead. Well, they get there and like all their energy sources are depleted, but the creature circulation appears to have, you know, to check the term, loads of the omicron particles that are exactly the thing they were trying to mine for energy. Could they not have, you know, while they were healing the creature,
00:40:23
Speaker
mind its blood for Omicron. Well, I think at that point they realised that it was that creature's nourishment system, so no. Yeah, I don't think when they were going to mind their list of they were planning to mind it by being. I don't think it would have been the astrogeological effect equivalent of a gastric bypass. I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the rulebook that they don't go in and harm heart. Mind space whales.
00:40:51
Speaker
to get exactly here. They're not gonna try to cure this creature. They're trying to help it out. They're not trying to like steal it for their own coffee. And now at this point, I have to admit the next is very irritating.
00:41:12
Speaker
He's quite, he's very good at being irritated. He's got a lot of irritations throughout the whole episode. He makes a big type of snacks on the bridge and he self-appointed himself. I don't know if anybody can say that. Yeah, crew morale for certain. He sort of comes in with a little platter of canapes. Sorry, canapes. Not on its tray. I just, I just want to
00:41:35
Speaker
that stage and then a Y to break into a northern accent and go, anyone like any knieps or something like that? And then he wants to sing, at which point Janeway is like, no. Yeah, I've got some morale boosting sing songs for the crew. And this is me channeling my frustration in a positive way, being in danger as opposed to just moping about it. Also, I was like a little bit annoyed with Kes, which is like, yeah, I need a slice to cook when he's stressed. I was like,
00:42:01
Speaker
Well, that's not an excuse. We have to just walk onto the bridge. I also have to ask, what sort of security do they have on that bridge that some random cook can just walk in in the middle of a tense moment trying to heal an interplanetary creature?
00:42:15
Speaker
There's a real open-door policy with Jamie, isn't she? I feel like if I was... She's very patient. If I was in her shoes, I would have closed the door to the fridge, to her ready room, especially on Neelix by this point. I've got to be honest, the things he was serving looked like some sort of courgette wrap, which didn't look that appealing.
00:42:34
Speaker
Oh, you know, I thought they looked like, um, those Greek or they don't. Yes. Yeah. Actually quite tasty. Yeah, but I dunno, there's a lot of gastrointestinal distress when the elixir is good and he's concerned. That's what I said right in the beginning.
00:42:52
Speaker
When they said there's an ancient Chinese saying, they live in interesting times. Interesting times. It's interesting to eat Rolex's food, basically. So they began to fire the beam at the wound, and this is the point where it's not working as expected, and the doctor's like, show me back on screen. Well, not like that at all, but he's, you know.
00:43:18
Speaker
And then he has the idea to use the Starship to use Voyager. Sorry. So they move into position and it works. And the whole starts to repair. Um, Oh, but they do need that little diversion. Cause then they have that whole chat about dogs and how I think, you know, distract her. Um,
00:43:45
Speaker
And my only comment here was that I would say, and that's also what they said on the Delta Fliers, good shaking. Because I think the ship was shaking at that point. Was it there? Hmm. I noticed that as well, actually, that it was... I wondered if they'd had those shaking training lessons at that stage. Those lessons were paying off. They looked far more realistic as the inertial dampeners shorted out and they were being thrown around the place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they looked quite convincing to me.
00:44:16
Speaker
And then we have a little bit of the captain's log where we find out that they've, after all that, lost 20% of the energy reserves. Having healed the creature by bridging the wound with the ship. Yes, but having wounded the creature. It felt as though we'd skipped over the bit where we told our intrepid listeners how they actually managed to heal the creatures. Because originally the nucleonic radiation beam that Velana came up with...
00:44:45
Speaker
I am having weird memory blanks. I'm so sorry. You mean using the Voyager as a suture? Yes. I did say that, right? Yep. Yep. I have fading consciousness span. Ignore me. It's the ADHD. I'm so sorry. So yes, it did work. It all worked out when they managed to navigate out of the nebula.
00:45:12
Speaker
And then we see Harry and Janeway in the, in a turbo lift, I think.
00:45:17
Speaker
having a little conversation. So I put here, as my summary of what happens next, is Kim drags Janeway to a French brothel, which is probably a little bit harsh, but he takes her, doesn't he, to Tom Paris's Chaisentrine hologram, where then, yeah, the foreshadowing that happened earlier foreshadows
00:45:44
Speaker
Oh, yes. It happens. It manifests. So, yeah, they take Janie Wade to St. Dreen's and she's all acting where she sees a pool table. Koi and a gigolo comes onto her. Is this pool or billiards? Or what is she saying? She says pass the stick. Pass the stick. It's a cue. A cue? Oh, really? Oh, OK. Yeah, go ahead, Janie.
00:46:12
Speaker
Well, no, I was just going to say, she exchanges banter with the Jiglo, falls in love with her. Paris separates them and the Jiglo sort of, when he's not able to be heard, turns to Paris and breathes into his ear. She's beautiful. Does she have money? It's so awkward. Oh, yeah. And then when the gaunt Gary is hitting on Belana and he says something like,
00:46:39
Speaker
His life philosophy is treat a tramp like a lady and a lady like a tramp. Always works, apparently. And Bolana's like, Paris, did you program this guy? You're a pig. And he's a pig. And so are you. Oh, she's so good. And then they get hustled by Janeway, who like sinks three solids or four solids on her break. She's like, solids? And then and then Kim gets
00:47:06
Speaker
I don't think you could quite say molested, but certainly accosted by Sondrine. And then for Janeway Hustles, Kim gets corrupted by aging French lady of negotiable affection. Yes. And then there is a chakote right at the end where he's saying that incantation again, but for the crew. Yes. Kind of, I call it praying. I'm not sure that's the right word, but you know, the right animal guide for them on their journey, which was a nice
00:47:35
Speaker
Do we ever find out what the crew's animal guide is? I don't think we ever talk about animal guides ever again. That makes me really sad. No, I could be wrong. No, I think I'm sure I can't remember. Honestly, I don't know. But maybe he goes, he has a couple of spiritual journeys, I think. Like there's a planet, his dad, stuff like that. Interesting. Okay.
00:48:03
Speaker
Julie noted, I really like this episode. To me, it feels more like a proper Star Trek exploration and mission rather than sort of random stuff, sort of scenario. And it also feels a bit more like they're a scientific mission of, you know, exploring and something's gone wrong. We put it right. We're not being sort of attacked by random organ stealers or things that throw us across the galaxy that they're taking control. Ah, good. Glad you enjoyed it. Hmm.
00:48:32
Speaker
Jenny, what did you think overall? Yeah, I don't know. I think I preferred some of the earlier ones, actually, for me, just because I really enjoyed all the crew, the whole theme around how we're going to interact with each other. We can't keep in place this strict job-like hierarchy when we're going to be living together. And we need some kind of human warmth. Poor Janeway doesn't have any other captains that she can... Oh, yes.
00:49:04
Speaker
like, you know, interact a bit more. I love all that element. They're all just trying to like work their way through what to do in this situation. But I mean, I think probably just because there's so much of Neelix being Neelix in it, I just kind of, I kind of just tune out a bit when he comes on with all this stuff. But I think, you know,
00:49:26
Speaker
he's got that comedy value. For me, I like the doctor is his comic timing is just so brilliant that that's he's my like main sort of comedy value. But I can see how Nelix would be entertaining to a lot of people as well. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think, as I said, he does, he's like a complete opposite personality to me anyway. But and it's a kind of personality that can drive me mad. But it is also very endearing.
00:49:55
Speaker
Because at the end of the day, he kind of, well, we'll see, he just really cares about people, I think. But he is, I would struggle, yes, in the early days. Yeah, me too. I have a lot of sympathy for like two Vulcan people. Yes, yes. I definitely, as we know, relate to what I want to do. I like being, ruining my life.
00:50:24
Speaker
Yeah. I like the whole concept of the nebula being an alive animal. And then, you know, they've got to find a way to heal it and the whole sort of, you know, they're going to ride its circulatory system out and all these sort of ideas I quite like. Hmm. I agree. I mean, that is, it's almost, um, well, I guess sometimes when you're taking notes or like watching it in a certain way,
00:50:51
Speaker
Um, it's hard to maintain the big picture, but yeah, that is pretty cool. I mean, how a giant hummus is that creature? It's just floating along in space. And does that exist? And we just don't know. Yeah. Well, that exactly, that's exactly what I was going to say. Like is, you know, it's a big wide open universe out there. Um, I wonder if anything like that can exist. Any other final thoughts on the episode?
00:51:20
Speaker
No, it's left me thoughtful and a bit, I don't know, wistful for childhood. Watching a Star Trek and not really understanding what it was about, but generally feeling a little bit. All is well with the universe at the end. Oh, yes. I have a question for you. What do we call it?
00:51:42
Speaker
I thought Man of the Match was with him. Oh yes! Star of the Star Trek. What have we got? I don't remember Star Player. Star Player. Star Player. Star Player. Star Player. Star Player. Star Player. Star Player of the Match. Sorry, I'm just going to make that note because I forgot about that. Star Player. Who was my Star Player? I think we need to go for an understated maestro who you don't see a lot of but everything functions more because he or she is there.
00:52:13
Speaker
So here's your nomination. The gecko. It's quite clear that the moment she's introduced to the gecko, Janeway's mental equilibrium settles and she's able to make empowered, rationally driven command decisions. Did I keep a straight face? You did. I was trying to assess what that meant. Jenny, do you have a stop here?
00:52:39
Speaker
Well, I'm a bit concerned that mine's just going to keep being the same person because I would actually give the doctor the star player again, just for me, because he was only in its small amounts, but the bits he wanted, it was just brilliant. Like they made the episode for me. It was funny, but I think for me, it was Chakotay. Well, because he had that, what I thought was quite genius revelation of the, the circulatory system. And he also fired that photon that saved them.
00:53:09
Speaker
Um, and... The Doctor did work out how to save the creature. Yeah, it's my star player, not Jenny's star player. I know, I feel... And I like Jenny's. My offering up to now has been the correct star player and no one has endorsed it, so I have to be the power breaker. I think it's a good thing if we have different star players. That's an aim. No. Oh yeah, sorry, I thought we could just pick our own. Uh, and uh, I enjoyed the animal guide.
00:53:39
Speaker
the kind of guided meditation. I felt quite relaxed when I was watching that. I was like, oh, I'm going to close my eyes and imagine myself in like my favorite place. Yeah. You would be my stopper. Yeah. Makes sense.
00:53:55
Speaker
so okay we have jakosho we have the doctor and we have the gecko one day we'll agree on these and no we don't we don't need to agree that's the whole point we've got a you know a bit of diversity and i'm actually surprised that no one's chosen jane wick yet well we only started last week right she's fine she's finding her way she's trying to get away yeah well i feel like there will be a lot later on that i will choose her i'll stop there but
00:54:23
Speaker
She's an empowering leader. She empowers her people to perform. She doesn't perform herself. I'm sure there's going to be plenty of Janeways, so I'm not worried. OK, well, I'm going to hit stop because I think we're done there.