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One on One - Tucker Redding, S. J.
169 Plays2 years ago
In this episode, Gretchen Crowder interviews Tucker Redding, S.J.
Fr. Tucker Redding, SJ, is a recently ordained priest of the Central and Southern Province of the Society of Jesus. Tucker grew up on a ranch in central Texas. He attended Texas A&M University, where he grew in his faith through St. Mary's Catholic Center. There, he was also introduced to the Jesuits and started to discern religious life. He worked for four years at a parish in Houston as a youth minister before entering the Jesuits novitiate in Grand Coteau, Louisiana. As a Jesuit, Tucker has lived/studied/worked in Dallas, New York, Boston, Jamaica, and St. Louis. He earned a Master's Degree in Communication at Saint Louis University and a Master's of Divinity at Boston College. He also worked at America Magazine in video production and continues to work on video projects to promote faith, Ignatian Spirituality, and the work of the Jesuits. He currently serves as the Associate Pastor of St. Francis Xavier (College) Church in St. Louis and works in the UCS Province Communication Office.
You can find him on social media @treddingsj.
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If this episode hits home and you feel you have your own story to share, email Gretchen at lovedasyouarepod@gmail.com.
Follow along and contribute to the conversation @lovedasyouarepod on Instagram.
Find more from Gretchen Crowder @gdcrowder as well as at gretchencrowder.com.
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Conversation with Father Tucker Redding
00:03:04
Speaker
Hello, and welcome back to Loved As You Are in Ignatian Podcast with me, Gretchen Crowder. I'm so glad you are here. For this episode, I'm pleased to say I finally interviewed a Jesuit priest. Jesuits, of course, have an intimate knowledge of Ignatian spirituality. It's a large part of their formation and a large part of their lives as priests.
00:03:27
Speaker
So this week, on Sunday's Feast of the Transfiguration, I got the chance to interview my friend, former colleague, and as of two months ago, Jesuit priest, Father Tucker Redding, S.J. Father Tucker Redding, S.J., is a recently ordained priest of the Central and Southern Province of the Society of Jesus. He grew up on a ranch in Central Texas and attended Texas A&M University, where he grew in his faith through St. Mary's Catholic Center.
00:03:53
Speaker
There, he was also introduced to the Jesuits and started to discern religious life. He worked for four years at a parish in Houston as a youth minister before entering the Jesuit novitiate in Grand Coteau, Louisiana. As a Jesuit, Tucker has lived, studied, worked in Dallas, New York, Boston, Jamaica, and St. Louis.
00:04:11
Speaker
He earned a master's degree in communication at St. Louis University and a master's of divinity at Boston College. He also worked in America Magazine in video production and continues to work on video projects to promote faith, Ignatian spirituality, and the work of the Jesuits. He currently serves as the associate pastor of St. Francis Xavier College Church in St. Louis and works in the UCS Province Communication Office.
00:04:36
Speaker
Tucker is active on Instagram. The platform formerly noticed Twitter, threads, and Facebook, and can be found at treddingsj. He also has a podcast he started while working at America Magazine on Ignatian Contemplation.
Redding's Pilgrimage & Cooking
00:04:50
Speaker
It's called Imagine, a Guide to Jesuit Prayer, and it can be found on all major podcast platforms.
00:04:57
Speaker
This was a fun conversation. Tucker and I spoke about everything from his pilgrimage experience to his love of cooking. Tucker and I always enjoyed having conversations when we worked together that would usually result in us having a bunch of really big and awesome ideas that neither of us had any time to actually implement. Still, sometimes the fun is in the dreaming, isn't it? This was such a good conversation with my friend, Father Tucker Redding S.J.
00:05:26
Speaker
I'm sure you won't want to miss a minute. So here we go.
00:05:59
Speaker
So welcome Tucker, I just introduced you to my listeners and let them know that you and I were colleagues back during your Regency. I also let them know that you were key in helping me learn and understand some things with regards to social media and video editing back in the day because those are definitely your specialty. And I continue to be impressed by your talents in this area.
00:06:20
Speaker
And I also let them know that you were recently ordained to the priesthood. So it's truly a blessing to be able to say welcome now, Father Tucker Redding to the podcast.
00:06:30
Speaker
Thank you so much. And to be honest, I keep getting used to that. Even today, I was at mass and people were asking, well, do I call you Father Tucker or Father Redding? And my initial response, it's just Tucker. I thought, okay, no, I guess, I guess, yes, I'm still getting used to that myself, but it is great to be here. It's wonderful to be able to see you, but it's also wonderful just to be a part of this great program that you've started. So thank you very much.
00:06:54
Speaker
Thank you. And I wanted to point out to our listeners, I told them about your social media handles, but one thing I noticed you started doing in the last few weeks is like short little homily videos every once in a while on the daily readings. Can you tell them how often you do those or is that just whenever you get a chance to do it?
00:07:12
Speaker
Well, I'm so glad that you brought that up. To be honest, I would like to be much more intentional. So I would love to be able to do that daily and that would be my intention. And so now I'm trying to do a little bit of re-planning and focusing and having a little more of an intentional social media presence so far. It's been
00:07:29
Speaker
when I've had the time or remembered to do it, but I'd like to be much more intentional. So hopefully, once people hear this, I'll be making much more of a daily effort to put up those homilies and little tidbits about life in ministry as a new priest.
God as a Friend & Ignatian Spirituality
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's really great, especially when you don't always access the daily readings as a lay person. But when somebody mentions them, you're like, oh, yeah, OK. Thank you for telling me a little bit about what's going on in the church today. As we speak, the church is celebrating the transfiguration of Jesus, the moment where in the gospels where Jesus was transfigured and became radiant in glory upon a mountain before Peter, James, and John. It's probably an appropriate feast day for us to have a conversation like this to talk about God's magnanimous love for us.
00:08:14
Speaker
So I'm going to start as I do with all of my guests and ask you, who is God to you and how did you come to that understanding? I really love this question because I think for me it points to very much an evolution in how really I've seen God. And I think it's very appropriate to this question of how do we see ourselves as loved by God and loved as we are.
00:08:37
Speaker
I would say that my image of God is that of a constant companion. And sometimes when I hear myself say that, it sounds, I feel like, wow, that sounds very pious. But at the same time, I've taken a while to try to sort of struggle with this idea of God, and especially for me,
00:09:00
Speaker
trying to see Jesus in particular as a friend. And I think that that's taken some different turns. I think especially thanks to Ignatian spirituality, which I know we've been able to share and talk a lot about before, but I think that idea of especially imaginative prayer to be able to
00:09:18
Speaker
imagine God and again for me very specifically Jesus as that person who is with me and well I feel like a lot of us might have this idea of like okay we're supposed to be friends with Jesus it can take a while and I think a lot of effort to try to allow that to sink in this idea of actually being friends with God and to try to bridge
00:09:42
Speaker
as much as we can, maybe that gap that we might feel is present as much as I think we intellectually know that God loves us and desires to be with us. I think so often on our end, we have to try to bridge that gap. And I feel like a few years ago on retreats, I guess just a little bit of background, Jesuits tend to do an eight-day annual retreat every single year. And one of the best retreats that I had in the past few years, my director,
00:10:09
Speaker
invited me to think of Jesus as this constant companion. Taking that notion of Jesus as friend, but just thinking of someone who's always with you, not just in moments of prayer, but really as you go about daily activities. I remember from here at one point, it was going on a hike and I had spent hours by myself.
00:10:29
Speaker
And all of a sudden, I'm thinking, wow, I've spent hours literally, maybe physically alone, but I'd never felt lonely because I was doing a lot of work and a lot of effort sort of mentally and through that imaginative prayer to imagine Jesus with me. So I know that's kind of a long answer. And part of it is because of this evolution. But I think seeing God and again, Jesus as constant companion for me
00:10:57
Speaker
has really helped me to accept myself as loved as I am. Yeah. And you say it's God as friend is something that maybe a lot of people experience, but I think it is very much a uniquely Ignatian idea. And I think sometimes when you present it to people who aren't familiar with Ignatian spirituality, it's like, no, I think God's supposed to be father or God's supposed to be mentor or guide. And it's hard to kind of wrap their minds about around this concept and this idea.
00:11:26
Speaker
But then once you've been kind of immersed in Ignatian spirituality and the exercises, then you start to see that element of friendship and relationship with God, which is so wonderful. I hope that more people get exposed to that idea because I know it's not always an idea that comes up in every different type of spirituality or every conversation about God.
00:11:48
Speaker
I think that that is a really good point. And I think even when I thought I had accepted this idea of God as friend, I had realized I was still putting a bit of distance. And for me, I don't know if there was something internal or maybe something I brought in before. As you said, I think this very much is a result of years of diving into Ignatian spirituality. But there was something where I realized that my image of God was still very much
00:12:17
Speaker
Somehow distant and that wasn't really on God's part. It was I was sort of saying no No, you're you're up there or over there and I'm over here But but I think you're you're spot-on that that is something that can be very difficult to to imagine ourselves as as close to God Which I think this might be jumping ahead. I know but
00:12:39
Speaker
As I'm thinking of some of the different questions that I know you've asked on the podcast, this idea of that difficulty of seeing ourselves close to God, I think could be part of that problem of seeing ourselves as ultimately very much loved by God as we are if we constantly see God as more of a distant figure. Yeah. I don't know if sometimes it's a question of, are we worthy enough to be God's friend? Because when you think about
00:13:06
Speaker
God bringing His three friends up on the mountain today in the gospel, it's like He chose these people specifically. So to wrap our minds around the fact that we are also chosen specifically by God to be God's friends is kind of a hard concept. And I think that's where
00:13:23
Speaker
Can you say a little bit more about that? I know that you did a podcast for America Magazine on imaginative prayer and this idea of putting yourself in the gospels to maybe make yourself be able to see that friendship with God, that closeness with God.
00:13:37
Speaker
Absolutely. It's probably one of my favorite aspects of Ignatian spirituality. And of course, I always feel like I need to say, Ignatius didn't invent the idea of praying with our imagination. But I do think that he put a spin on it that I believe really was unique. Because I do think part of the concept of the time was, yeah, imagine yourselves in Scripture or seeing these beautiful experiences.
00:14:00
Speaker
But a lot of what I had seen and read in sort of the history of of Imagine of Prayer was more so, here is a meditation or reflection in which the work has kind of already been done for you. And imagine what is on this page or on paper. And Ignatius, though, in so much of his instruction on contemplation and using the imagination in prayer,
00:14:23
Speaker
He sets up a stage for you and then sort of leaves you with it. This idea of really trusting you and God working with you. A great concept in the spiritual exercises is allowing
00:14:39
Speaker
the creature and the creator to interact with one another and a director to sort of help them and guide them, but not get in between them. And so Ignatius himself and his instructions would kind of set the stage. Here's the story we're going to pray with. Here's some things to think about.
00:14:57
Speaker
and then allows you, and again, kind of you initiating and then the Holy Spirit working with you to create these amazing scenes. Because I think before I really knew anything about Ignatian spirituality, I think a lot of us may have tried to imagine what would this story from Scripture look like.
00:15:17
Speaker
I don't think that, you know, that's unique. We probably all try to imagine it or maybe we input in our brain something we've seen in a movie or I don't know, something like that. Now we can have like the great imagery of a show like The Chosen, which I haven't seen a lot of. But some of what I've seen makes me think that it would be great fuel for, you know, contemplative prayer and imaginative prayer. But in this case, to to actually put yourself in it as well to interact and have Jesus interact with you in a beautiful way. And so I think
00:15:47
Speaker
trying to grow in that type of prayer where you are imagining yourself with Jesus, you're imagining the things that he did. And in that way, you're getting to know Jesus. I think that's such a huge part of the second week of the spiritual exercises. And I know you've talked about the spiritual exercise before, so I hope it makes sense for me to sort of dive into that kind of terminology with some of your listeners. I know that you've talked a lot about the different aspects, but that second movement of the spiritual exercise is when you really get into
00:16:17
Speaker
The life of Jesus, I kind of look at it as you're getting to know Jesus, and just as you're getting to know maybe a new friend, maybe you've heard a lot about this person, you've been introduced to them, but now on your own, you are watching the way that he interacts with people.
00:16:33
Speaker
the way that he heals, the way that he loves people. And in a sense, you get an opportunity to form a friendship with this person kind of in the same way that you would build any other friendship. I think that's a gap that Ignatian spirituality, that Ignatian contemplation can help to bridge, is helping us to really see Jesus in that light.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah, and one of the beautiful things, because you're right, Ignatius didn't invent this idea of contemplation of the Gospels. However, I know that I felt like there was a real permission as a lay person who especially maybe didn't at the time when I first heard about it have as much theological studies as I do now.
00:17:18
Speaker
to be able to say, yeah, you can place yourself in the Bible story with just the words that are on the page, and you don't have to know all the history and everything behind it, because really it's about that moment with you and Jesus. And the other thing that it gave me was an opportunity to place myself in scenes where women weren't, right? Like in the particular gospel passages where in the transfiguration, you know, at the top of the mountain,
00:17:41
Speaker
maybe in Ignatian contemplation I can place myself there, but there might have been a hesitation for me to do that in the past when I was looking literally at just what the words were and saying, well, maybe I shouldn't, maybe I'd be back down at the bottom of the mountain and maybe I can't interact with Jesus in this moment. So I think that's one of the beauties of the way that Ignatius presents this type of contemplation and interaction with the Gospels.
00:18:05
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think this points to something you had mentioned earlier. It is wonderful that we're recording this on the Feast of the Transfiguration, because I do think part of this is this idea of worthiness and proximity. Are we worthy to be in such proximity to God, to be friends with God? And to look at these three figures, I tend to focus a lot on Peter. I do like Peter, but I think what I like the most about him is
00:18:32
Speaker
He also very publicly messes up. He's very headstrong and very publicly messes up. And at the time of the transfiguration, he's going through this beautiful experience. And we know where his story will continue to go. He will once again, in a huge way, mess up
00:18:54
Speaker
And Jesus will continue to call him friend, to call him disciple, and call him to continue on. So I love that we are having this beautiful story with him today, because I think it presents this idea of worthiness. And it doesn't mean that we don't mess up from time to time, that we're not still working on ourselves.
00:19:15
Speaker
And maybe there's this tension between we are very much loved as we are and are called to continue to work on certain aspects of ourselves as well.
Redding's Jesuit Call & Novitiate Experiences
00:19:27
Speaker
And I think Peter and today's story kind of helps us to see that. And I love what you mentioned too, getting a chance to really preserve the story and be able to see it for yourself, to be able to insert yourself in places where
00:19:42
Speaker
especially like you said, women may not have been in this particular story, but to have yourself there and to really see that in a new light is a beautiful thing. Yeah, it's also great to notice that this was like the one time when Jesus was alive that
00:19:58
Speaker
He really made that I am God, I am divine presence in front of his apostles. But then he walked down the mountain and went back to normal work and ministry with them. So sometimes I think we can see and put God at the top of that mountain. And that's why we can't find that friendship with God, because there's this like, well, here's this glowing being that we can't really see ourselves in. But the majority of Jesus's life was spent
00:20:27
Speaker
at the bottom of the mountain with the apostles, you know, just like one of them. And so that makes it easier to see that friendship that that wasn't always how the apostles saw Jesus.
00:20:38
Speaker
Absolutely. And I do think that holds, again, I love that we're doing this on this piece because I do think that's a huge lesson there that we may have these moments too where we feel that love and maybe sometimes those moments are fleeting, but we actually, you know, we might know that on some level, we know that we're loved by God or that we're supposed to be, but feeling it is something different. And I think that's one of those transfiguration moments
00:21:04
Speaker
those moments where we feel it, where we actually accept it. But sometimes it's hard to stay in those moments and we go back down the mountain into maybe some of the grid of our lives and we still have to look back. But we know too that Jesus is still there with us. He did not stay on the mountain. He stays even in whatever the messiness of our life can be. Jesus is there and did not stay up on the mountain top.
00:21:34
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And so we've mentioned a lot in our conversation so far, nation spirituality and the exercises, and obviously you have been immersed in all of that for a long time because it takes Jesuits. Again, remind us how many years to become a Jesuit.
00:21:49
Speaker
Oh, typically about 11 years. It took me 12 years to at least I guess get to the priesthood. Yeah, so it's a long process and there's a lot of learning involved and also just a lot of experiencing Ignatian spirituality. But what I want to do is go back past those 11 years and tell us when you first came to know about the Society of Jesus Ignatian spirituality, like obviously your vocation was to the priesthood, but you picked a very specific
00:22:19
Speaker
order of priests to join. So can you tell us a little bit about how that came about? Yeah, absolutely. And to me, I always think of it as somewhat random. While in reality, I feel like it's... I don't think it's really random. I think there are some plans and things like that. I guess to step back a little bit more. So I went to college at Texas A&M University. That's where I got my undergrad. New church just opened up there. Just dedicated.
00:22:47
Speaker
I know I actually got an invitation to that because they sort of reach out to people who had graduated there who are new priests. But it was also my first weekend in my new parish, St. Francis Xavier in St. Louis, and I was like, well, I obviously have a job to do here. But yes, and I think that points to just how active that Catholic Center is.
00:23:11
Speaker
That's a church that, while I grew up Catholic, I never felt very involved. And when I was there, I started to grow a lot in my own spirituality. A lot of it all started with just meeting people there who were very welcoming. And then that brought me in. And then I got more and more involved.
00:23:31
Speaker
And that Catholic Center brings in a lot of different religious from different orders, helping out on retreats and things like that. Because the fact of the matter is, as much as I was growing in my faith, I felt no call to priesthood during that time. I know a lot of Jesuits will say there's some people were called to the priesthood and then maybe called to a specific religious order.
00:23:53
Speaker
I felt very much the call to the Jesuits and then the call to the priesthood because as I was growing in my faith, I had no sense that this was for me. I realized later that I didn't know anything about religious orders. I think I knew some of the names. I had no idea what that meant, honestly.
00:24:10
Speaker
But then I was on this, of all places, on a road trip for this Catholic Center. And one of the places that we stopped was Jesuit High School New Orleans. And we visited with some of the Jesuits there. And when they did sort of explain their spirituality, the fact that they live in community,
00:24:28
Speaker
And I think especially for me at the time, and this is still a big part for me, is the fact that Jesuits do all sorts of ministry. I had this very narrow idea of what a priest did. And I respected that, but I just didn't feel a call to that myself. But hearing all the different things that they did, and that part of that was really discerning what are the needs of this particular area that we're in.
00:24:51
Speaker
that really spoke to me. And I left that, again, very random encounter on a road trip, kind of with this spark. And the more that I chased that spark, the more I learned about the Jesuits, the more I wanted to learn more and experience more. And so I had kind of an intellectual knowledge of the Jesuits from doing kind of some of that research and everything.
00:25:14
Speaker
And finally, I went on a discernment retreat with the Jesuits. I was a youth minister in Houston at the time, and I went on this retreat. And what I didn't know, I guess I didn't know much about this retreat when I went on it, which is funny to me now, but I just sort of went there. And the first day or two of it was more information.
00:25:35
Speaker
about the Jesuits, and you get to know some of the guys who are at the Novishit there, the Novishit being the first two years of Jesuit formation. The other couple of days of this retreat was a silent retreat. And so that was really my first, I think, practical exposure to Ignatian spirituality, and especially the idea of
00:25:57
Speaker
imaginative prayer or nation contemplation. And I took to that very quickly because it just really spoke to, I think, my own personality, my spirituality. And that really started, I think, this very new relationship with God, especially being able to build through my imagination. So
00:26:17
Speaker
Again, I know that's sort of, it's long, there's a lot to it. But after I didn't go to any Jesuit schools or anything like that, and it wasn't until I think my senior year of college that I was finally introduced to the Jesuits. But I fell, I think I fell in love with the order very quickly. And yeah, and that's kind of my introduction both to the Jesuits and Ignatian spirituality.
00:26:40
Speaker
It's one of those which came first, the chicken or the egg, and some stories like people were introduced to the Jesuits first and then Ignatian spirituality like yours and then in others it was Ignatian spirituality first and then got to know really the Jesuits from that. So it's always interesting to hear
00:26:57
Speaker
where it started, where it came from. And as you were talking, I kept remembering the story that you shared about your pilgrimage. One thing that I don't think our listeners know of when you first are in the novitiate, right? You are sent on a pilgrimage and only give, I should let you tell it because I'm going to tell different stories. Would you mind telling us about that journey? Because I think when we're talking about being loved by God, being thrown in the middle of nowhere with like only a couple bucks,
00:27:27
Speaker
kind of gives you the idea of like, does God really love me? Is God going to take care of me and walk with me in this moment? Absolutely. And that's such a great connection. And I'm not sure I would have made that same connection to the pilgrimage experience. So I love so much that you brought that up. So a little bit of the setup. First, just to confirm, you're absolutely right, this is an experience that many Jesuits will go through in their novitiate, but
00:27:50
Speaker
And I say that because it depends on the no bishop. But for for my own, which is kind of the southern part of the country, we'd have this experience pilgrimage where one night before we begin this experience, we were given an envelope with a one way bus ticket to somewhere in the country. We won't know until we open it.
00:28:09
Speaker
We're given a $5 bill, and we have about three weeks. Sometimes the time frame varies, but for me it was three weeks to get from wherever that one-way bus ticket takes us to our next mission. And so for me, that one-way bus ticket took me from Kansas City to Boston, Massachusetts, my first time ever going to Boston.
00:28:31
Speaker
I had three weeks to make it to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, where I was going to help in their parish and just five dollars to do so. So because we know, I mean, even with the prices a decade ago, five dollars was not going to get me to Baton Rouge. So it really is this radical sense of trusting in God, God working in other people, trusting in God's providence to take care of you, to really love you in this particular situation.
00:29:01
Speaker
and bring you to this destination. So there's a great deal of just trusting in God during that kind of experience. Back in April, when I decided to finally hit the ground running and bring this podcast to life,
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:31:12
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Speaker
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00:31:57
Speaker
I remember a part of your story where you ran into another Jesuit. Is that right? That was also on their pilgrimage. So it's so interesting how God works and kind of brings people to encounter even in the most kind of uncertain periods of time that you're in.
00:32:13
Speaker
Absolutely. And that was the biggest thing. I think that remains to be one of the maybe most miraculous things that I think has ever happened to me because part of it was I was also struggling quite a bit at this point in my pilgrimage journey. I was waking up each morning with a great deal of anxiety. I was trying to think my way through it as we know thinking our way out of anxiety works so well.
00:32:39
Speaker
You're trying to think through all the steps and convince ourselves we shouldn't be anxious, does not tend to work very well. In the midst of all of this, I ran into this Jesuit priest who was trying to... I kind of vented a lot to him and we sort of realized the thing that would help me would be to be with one of my other Jesuit brothers, who we'd connected so much.
00:33:03
Speaker
And after thinking that that just wasn't possibility, that's when I ran into him. So running into him in general was and this was in Manhattan. So this was in the middle of lower Manhattan, maybe an hour or less after I told someone that that just wasn't possible. And so I think that was a big part. It would have been amazing on its own had I ran into him. But it was that state that I was in at that point in time. And
00:33:33
Speaker
I don't think anyone convinced me that that just wasn't a God moment because we started in two different cities and we just happened to be walking down the same busy street in lower Manhattan after I just had very much
00:33:46
Speaker
I don't know, a bit of a meltdown, honestly. And what I really needed was a friend. And so in that moment, that's honestly how I felt very much loved by God through what can seem like very random circumstances. There's that word again, random, but through these circumstances, but I don't think anyone can convince me that God wasn't involved in that and had a hand in helping me feel loved. And in this case, like specifically through another person,
00:34:14
Speaker
And so that idea of seeing some of these things going on around us and allowing ourselves to be loved, not just by God, but for God to love us through other people around us too, I think is really special and important.
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah, and probably when you were in the middle of that pilgrimage, it was harder for you to see what the meaning was of that encounter. But the more that you reflect on it, which is one of the big principles of Ignatian spirituality, right, to continue to reflect daily and monthly and yearly of like what is going on and where did God show up. And so the more that you are able to tell that story and reflect on it, the more you can see God's presence in that moment.
00:34:54
Speaker
Absolutely. I love the idea that you brought up the feast day, but to even bring that up again is this idea of, I mean, did those that experienced it really understand what was going on at the time? Or was that something that later on,
00:35:12
Speaker
they were able to draw back on and really focus on it and take part from it in a new way later on. And I think very much so that the idea of us accepting that we are loved by God means thinking back over our lives, that reflecting and really looking at we actually have some evidence. If we look back and if we look hard enough, we can actually find these tangible signs of love, but we can very easily miss it if we're not looking.
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And even if we don't come to realize it until years after it has happened, it still has an impact on how we move into the future, right? When we're able to see those things, because then we're that much more aware of when it comes later, but we're also aware of the lessons that were happening in that moment and how they can help our future encounters. Absolutely. Yes.
00:36:09
Speaker
So that definitely, that pilgrimage seems to be, especially that moment of finding a fellow Jesuit, seems to be a moment where you can point to this understanding of being loved as you are.
Understanding God's Love
00:36:21
Speaker
Are there any other moments or stories or memories that you can point to of really having that realization, oh God, God really does love me as I am in this moment?
00:36:31
Speaker
Absolutely. I would say that there's this experience. So, I mean, we've talked about the spiritual exercises and we've also talked a little bit about no bishop, but another, you know, experiences that novices will go through would be going through the 30-day version of the spiritual exercises, which is 30 days of silence. That always seems so intimidating, but I really do believe that we'd all be capable of it. It sounds intimidating and I
00:36:58
Speaker
was able to do that. But something that we were prepared for very early on by our novice director, which for me was was Father Mark Thibodeau, a great spirituality writer. He told us, you know, we'll think that spending all this time in prayer, we're going to lead to these
00:37:17
Speaker
big revelations, maybe transfiguration level revelations, but the most important things that we are going to learn in that retreat are things that we learned when we were children, namely that we're loved.
00:37:33
Speaker
And even though he told us that and forewarned us, I still thought, but still, 30 days of prayer, I'm going to see something. I'm going to get some major revelation about my life and what I should be doing with it and all that kind of stuff. And maybe there were moments like that, but I'd still point to one of the most significant moments for me during the spiritual exercises
00:37:54
Speaker
I remember being in prayer, and I don't even remember what my specific focus was, what my passage was that I was trying to reflect on, but I just remember at one point hearing God say, and I suppose not audibly hearing, you know, it was more of a felt hearing, just to clarify for people too, but having that felt sense that God had said to me, I love you. And
00:38:24
Speaker
not feeling like I had just said it, or I was putting it in my own mind, but it felt like God was saying, I love you. And that was such a beautiful moment. Later on, I would go back to doubt that. It's like I was just in my mind, just my imagination. And my novice director said, well, yeah, it was in your imagination.
00:38:47
Speaker
But why can't God use that to give you that message? Why does that somehow discount what you experienced? And as I continued through the retreat, I was trying to grow in a trust of that message. So I sort of knew it intellectually. Like you said, we've been told this since we're children. And then
00:39:09
Speaker
I heard it, but I still needed to feel it. And so for several prayer periods, I still would hear this message of, I love you.
00:39:22
Speaker
And after a while I thought, okay, you know, this is good. I'm hearing this. I'm hearing it. And I'm trying not to doubt it anymore. And at some point after hearing this kind of in repetition through several prayers, I remember thinking or saying something along the lines of, thank you. I love you too. I appreciate that.
00:39:49
Speaker
I was wondering when we're going to move on. You know, I've heard this and I think that, you know, I think that I get it. So, you know, can we move on to some of the other stuff? You know, do you have any specific messages for me in what I do with my life? And the response that I heard from that was we can move on when you actually get it.
00:40:18
Speaker
And that was something, again, it's such an interesting thing in that imaginative prayer to learn to sort of trust some of the responses that you get because that one was really pushing against me. And so it was happening in my imagination. And at the same time, I was challenged that you're trying to brush past this moment. You think that you've got it because you heard the words, but you're still not feeling it.
00:40:46
Speaker
And so that really stands out to me as this powerful moment, because even in that message, you know, we can move on when you get it. There is no moving on from that message. That is the message. That is the epitome of what we can learn, and not just learn, but feel through prayer or spirituality, our relationship with God. That is the pinnacle, that God loves us so much. And all that God does is based in that.
00:41:14
Speaker
and that we are actually loved that much. I think if we could even begin to comprehend it, we just couldn't even stand it. I would hope we wouldn't doubt ourselves as much as we tend to, as much as I know I doubt myself. I don't think we would be capable of it if we just learned, if we could actually grasp, if we could actually get it, so to speak.
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah. And in how much maybe easier some of the things, some of the encounters we have with one another and the encounters we have in the world would be if, you know, I knew that I was loved as I was and the person that I was talking to or arguing with or debating with also knew that and knew that each other was loved as we are. You know, I think because we doubt that about ourselves, we tend to doubt that about other people. And then it kind of shades how we interact with others.
00:42:02
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And that kind of triggers another kind of thought in my head a little bit with this intersection between like, imaginative prayer and all this kind of stuff and really growing in a friendship with Jesus is, I think sometimes that maybe a part of ourselves when we're interacting with people when maybe we are experiencing some level of love from other people,
00:42:25
Speaker
I think everyone's one. I know this happens for me, so I don't mean to universalize, but sometimes there's something deep inside that says,
00:42:33
Speaker
Oh, if they just knew a little more about you, if they knew what you were thinking, if they've known some of the things you've done, if they knew these things, they wouldn't love you as much. And I think that could be a very dark thought that I think many of us, we can start to doubt love from other people and love from God. But I think the beauty for me is realizing that this person
00:42:59
Speaker
that I'm developing a friendship with. No, they know more about me. Jesus knows more about me than anyone, even myself. This is the person who does know. All of those thoughts, the straight thoughts, the bad thoughts, the things that maybe I've done, this person who is God knows more about me than anyone.
00:43:20
Speaker
and not despite, not but, but and loves me more than I can imagine, knows more about me than anyone and loves me more than anyone. And that I think is something that has been a beautiful revelation for me.
00:43:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think I wrote the words loved as you are on my website a long, long time ago, but I always had to add no matter what after it. And it was as much a reminder to me as anyone who was reading anything I was writing that I had to remind myself that like there was no thing that I could do that would stop God from loving me. And if I had that foundation,
00:44:01
Speaker
then it would be easier with these human relationships because yes, sometimes humans do stop loving us because of some reason or another or they doubt or are kind of fickle in their love for us. So if we have the foundation of a person who will always love us no matter what, it makes it easier to kind of find those people that also will love us no matter what and to love other people in the same way.
00:44:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
Ministry & Helping Others Feel Loved
00:44:28
Speaker
And I love what you mentioned about like always kind of tacking on that extra statement because I think
00:44:34
Speaker
It could be so easy for us to insert, but, you know, what about this or that? And it always reminds me of something a really good friend of mine in the Jesuits told me that his spiritual director told him, because I think he kept on saying the word, but, you know, it's like, oh, well, you know, I'm loved by God, but, you know, or I'm loved as I am, but, and his director said, every time you think the word, but say and instead.
00:45:02
Speaker
And that, I know sometimes maybe that doesn't work, but for the most part, that's actually very transformative. So that's why even earlier I kind of caught myself in saying like, you know, despite, you know, or something like that. It's like, no, no, you know, God loves us. Whole package all together and replacing our butts with ands.
00:45:23
Speaker
I'm gonna have to write that down because, you know, no school year is starting up and I'm gonna have to figure out if I can replace some butts with ants myself. So I think that's a very good tip. As you start, especially your ministry as a priest, but obviously you've been ministering through being a Jesuit for, you know, 11 years now, 12 years now, how do you try and help other people?
00:45:45
Speaker
understand that they are loved as they are. Is there any particular way that you try to go about that or things that you try to do, or even things that you do in your own prayer practice to help remind you of that mission? There's two things that really come to mind for me, and one I'd say is maybe a bit of a repetition, but I try to verbalize that sense that God
00:46:08
Speaker
knows everything about you and loves you completely. And I try to work through some of those things that I know come up in my mind, you know, if only they knew more about you, all that kind of stuff. I know I mentioned this earlier, but sometimes I try to verbalize it. And I've heard myself say it in multiple talks and homilies, but I do think sometimes it's important to say those things out loud.
00:46:33
Speaker
Because so often we might go through that and think we're kind of alone in having some of those doubts or fears. So I try to run through that, you know, that God knows all of these things, all of these things that we are so fearful of other people knowing about ourselves. God knows those things and loves you. So that's something that's been very important for me. I'm not exactly sure when that really came up, but I just remember that
00:47:02
Speaker
that that's been with me for a while of trying to say that out loud as often as possible. But the other thing that kind of triggers in mind that is very new for me that I love very much is this opportunity to be with people in confession, in reconciliation.
00:47:21
Speaker
And it's something I have looked forward to, I think very much for this idea of trying to help people feel loved as they are, people coming into this space who might feel very much broken, coming with their burdens and worries and hoping to give them this sense of being loved.
00:47:45
Speaker
I noticed when I first started, I'm obviously still very new. I've been a priest for two months. My very first couple of confessions, and this still happens a little bit now. In my new parish, we have daily confessions, so I'm getting a chance to really get some practice in here. Lots of experience. Yes, exactly.
00:48:02
Speaker
I think at first I felt so intimidated to be in that space, but every single time that I've heard confessions, when someone starts sharing with me, I am overwhelmed with love for this other person, and I am racking my brain with how can I convey this to them.
00:48:22
Speaker
It really has been a grace, I think, because I just feel this overwhelming love for the other person. And so that's been an area for me in ministry. And now something very new after these 12 years is obviously there are different places. I think especially working in a high school setting, working with teenagers who
00:48:43
Speaker
are very much still struggling with both who they are and being loved for who they are. So I don't think this is just, you know, for someone sitting in a confessional, but I think that has become very acute for me is it's just feeling this overwhelming love for the other person and wanting them to feel that love too and seeing that they are very much loved as they are.
00:49:05
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's an incredible thing to convey because I think often, you know, Catholics go to confession and if we feel like, oh, we're going to be judged when we go there, or we don't feel necessarily or think that the priest listening to us is feeling that way.
00:49:22
Speaker
there could be a hesitation to go and receive the sacrament. So it's beautiful that you explained that and gave us kind of that piece of the other side so that anybody who might be feeling like hesitant to go back into the confessional can see that there are truly people sitting on the other side loving us as we are. And of course you're acting in the person of Jesus who is also loving us as we are.
00:49:48
Speaker
And thank you for that opportunity to share that, too. I think this is the first space I've been able to kind of share, you know, some of those thoughts and, you know, and feelings as a new priest. But I'm very much I'm happy to be able to convey that, especially, you know, like I said, that was my own experience of confession is, you know, am I going to be judged at this moment in time? And
00:50:07
Speaker
And yeah, I would say some of the better confessions are the ones where I did leave feeling that sense of love and feeling the love of God from that. So it's something that I very much hope to be able to convey to others.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, and I also think it's great you say that you try to tell other people this message of being loved as you are as often as possible because, you know, as a priest, you have the homily and the ability to kind of break open the word, but how you break open the word is kind of up to you. Is it going to be a lesson on how we have to live our lives better or is it going to be an idea of being able to show people that Jesus is gazing upon them lovingly? How you go about doing that?
00:50:47
Speaker
is unique to the person and unique to the parish. It's great that you try to think about that concept of being loved as you are, hopefully when you're preparing those homilies as well as talks and other things. It's funny that you mention that because you keep sparking some different thoughts that I've had over time. I remember a year ago, I had the great opportunity when I was a newly ordained deacon to be in this parish in Boston. I was preaching probably every other weekend,
00:51:15
Speaker
And I remember a few homilies in, you know, I'd written, you know, reflections and talks and stuff, but I'm trying to think through, okay, am I conveying something new or unique or, you know, something like that. And at one point I thought to myself, gosh, I'm, I think I'm becoming a little bit of a broken record, you know, because I, I feel like I just, I try to go straight for this idea, you know, you're, you know, you're loved by God. And I had this straight thought. It's like, okay, like maybe, maybe you're just kind of giving that same message over and over again.
00:51:45
Speaker
And then I thought, I'm perfectly fine with that. If people get bored with me because they think that I'm continuing to give this message or something like that, I mean, so be it. I might give that same reaction as what I kind of felt in prayer before. It's like, you know, we can move on when you've actually got the message. It's kind of funny because I think I've struggled a little bit with, and I'm still working and practicing and stuff like that, but oh, you know,
00:52:12
Speaker
Especially now i'm i'm at a paris connected to a university and so i'm thinking i should be a little more intellectual or things like that which which it can be and still try to drive home that message but i think i would like that to remain the core of the message for me.
00:52:29
Speaker
Yeah, I think what a beautiful moment to bring up in one of your homilies when you are conveying that message saying, you know, I remember asking God to stop telling me this over and over again. Because one of the things, and it may just be me, because I know everyone experiences homilies different. But for me, I always enjoy when I feel like even if they didn't tell me their full story and deepest darkest secrets, but I know the priest a little bit better as a human being.
00:52:58
Speaker
when the homily is complete. And there is a understanding that the message that's being given to me is a message that that person is also working on and taking in and trying to figure out. So I think that even two months in, I'm sure you're doing a beautiful job of helping your parishioners get to know you and be able to walk the journey with you, right?
00:53:22
Speaker
I do appreciate that because I think for those of us who are, I mean, you and I both in professional ministry, we can get caught in this idea that we need to present maybe a little more in a little bit better side or something like that. But there is something to sharing our struggles where, yes, I'm ministering in this environment.
00:53:45
Speaker
but doing so as somebody who is on this journey too. And I do think as much as we might be tempted by that desire to maybe present sort of the best face that sometimes revealing the struggles can actually be much more informative.
00:54:04
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like the more that I come to understand where I struggle and where I'm imperfect, I mean, I'm my own worst critic, so I talk about those things all the time in my head, but the more that I say them out loud to other people, the more that I can see where God's loving me in those moments, and also where I can see some of the things that I think are my biggest faults.
00:54:24
Speaker
God doesn't see those as faults, right? And so it helps me identify some of those things. It's just making me uniquely who I am and not necessarily something that needs to be changed or altered. I think that's something we as human beings have a tendency to want to change and alter anything that makes us not like everybody else or, you know, not accepted by everybody else.
00:54:46
Speaker
That kind of leads me to another question I like to ask, which is, what do you think are the challenges for people in general to understanding their own belovedness right now in 2023? That really is a great question. And I think part of it is there's the sense of being very connected and at the same time still very siloed and I think kind of alone. And
00:55:13
Speaker
There are opportunities in our great connectedness in being able to reach out to other people, even like you and I have not been able to see each other in person for a while. But even through whether it be social media or right now through this platform, we have this opportunity to interact. And that's a great thing.
00:55:31
Speaker
But I think sometimes we get so immersed in everything that we can end up only presenting certain parts. So just the entire thing that you had just mentioned where we're actually kind of holding back some of those parts of ourselves, because I really do believe most of us, if not all of us, might have this dialogue in our heads about needing to present
00:55:53
Speaker
the best side of ourselves and i can't mention these things these aspects of myself that i see is the most negative things but i do think that if we
00:56:03
Speaker
If we shared maybe a little more about that, we might actually realize that we are still very much loved for those things. We're still very much loved, including all of those aspects of our lives. And so to actually be able to share with other people who are either close to us or just
00:56:23
Speaker
In general, to be able to share ourselves a little more openly, we might actually find that we can dispel that fear that if people just knew us better, they wouldn't like us. No, it's actually if people knew you better, they would love you so much more. And I think that's the thing is we were hiding parts of ourselves because maybe we're scared of that side or we're ashamed or something. But no, you might actually be loved so much. I want to cut the mite.
00:56:52
Speaker
That was bad. I was like, no, no, that was like, I could see myself being like, oh, I'm the one. Sorry. But to end, but to end. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. This idea if people actually did know these aspects of ourselves, no, we would be loved exactly as we are. Because something I think is very interesting is I feel like so many people, if another person talks about maybe badly about themselves,
00:57:18
Speaker
We have this innate response. It's like, no, no, you're great. Like, no, those are those are the best parts of you or all that kind of stuff. We never turn that back around to ourselves. We will defend another person, maybe even a complete stranger to the death, that they are a beloved person, that they are wonderful. But we won't spend an ounce of that same energy on ourselves.
00:57:41
Speaker
I think that's something very important because we have that capability. I think a lot of us will jump maybe to the defense of another person, especially a close friend. If they started to doubt themselves, we would cut that off in a heartbeat. We would tell them all the most wonderful things about them, but not do the same back to ourselves. So if we can learn to turn some of that energy, keep it for other people.
00:58:03
Speaker
but give some back to ourselves and to be able to see that we are very much loved as much as we love other people for who they are too.
Humility & Self-Perception
00:58:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think that this is often what I would call a false sense of humility that we have that if we think
00:58:23
Speaker
too highly of ourselves than we aren't really being the people that we're called to be. But we turn that into thinking negatively about ourselves by trying not to have a big ego, by trying not to like really recognize our gifts and talents. And I don't know if that stems from
00:58:40
Speaker
You know, I know being brought up in the faith, there were different times where we were kind of preached at to be humble. You don't want to be the center of attention. You don't want to tell people what you're good at. That's not really how it works to be really a good Christian and to be a good person. And so we got that idea and suddenly we don't want to compliment ourselves. And then we start insulting ourselves instead. Right. And so to really understand what humility is and that it isn't trying to demean ourselves.
00:59:10
Speaker
Right. But it is being able to recognize who we are and our gifts and talents, but also be able to recognize the gifts and talents of others and to be able to put others first and to be able to kind of help other people also, you know, what is it? The rising tide raises all ships, you know, help other people rise as well.
00:59:29
Speaker
Absolutely. I absolutely agree. And that's still something I struggle with when I think, oh, I can't say that I'm good at this or that because that's not what humility is. And I feel like this goes back to this idea of something maybe we know intellectually, but still are struggling to actually embrace it and feel. And that's this idea that humility is just being honest about your gifts, your capabilities.
00:59:53
Speaker
True, your weaknesses as well, but all-encompassing and that you can actually be happy. What a concept. You can actually be happy about who you are because you are very much wonderfully made. So enjoy those gifts. Enjoy those quirks, too. The whole package is great.
01:00:13
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And so Tucker, as I wrap up this conversation, I have to ask you and you didn't, I don't think you put this in your bio, but you are a good and detailed cook. And so I want to know what's the next big meal that you're going to be cooking? I don't know if it's for dinner tonight or some other time for your community, but I love that you go through Instagram and kind of show this different stages. What's next up in Tucker Redding's cooking journey?
01:00:39
Speaker
That's so funny. I actually, I did record something the other day and I'm trying to figure out if I wanted to make it into like a reel or something like that a little bit different. So I've gotten on this huge kick and thanks for bringing that up. It's funny. I have really grown a lot in my love of cooking over the past few years. And I think part of it too is being able to share that with other people, whether it be community members or throwing like a dinner party or something, but just the idea of the hospitality behind that. And actually the next one is,
01:01:07
Speaker
Kind of this combination of things that I've started to follow different people on Instagram where their cooks are trying to do like...
01:01:16
Speaker
good food, but healthy. So I'm like trying to, I just know if I'm going to eat healthfully, I still need like good and savory foods. And so I've been trying to follow some of these accounts that do these recipes that are still healthy, but still taste really good. So it's really like these spicy chicken tacos that I've actually shown on my Instagram before I made another batch of those, but I loved the, the rub for the chicken so much that I also use them in this
01:01:46
Speaker
like chicken, spicy chicken mac and cheese, where the mac and cheese is actually sort of this creamy, but it's actually a healthy sauce. Its base is kind of like Greek yogurt cottage cheese type of thing, which just, I know it doesn't sound good, but it's like, I've started to learn like some of these things where if you mix some of these ingredients, it still can taste really good, but
01:02:06
Speaker
be a little more healthy for you. So anyway, thanks for bringing that up. It's funny because sometimes I forget to bring up, I think I brought up a lot of maybe some of the academics or the different work experiences. Sometimes I forget in the midst all of that to mention more of the hobbies and cooking has really been something I've grown a lot and love to share with other people.
Passion for Cooking & Wrap-up
01:02:29
Speaker
Yeah, well, you got some good influences by being in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I know my two years there, I think I lost weight just crossing the border from Louisiana to Texas just because the food was so delicious there. And I know you carried a lot of those Louisiana recipes with you. And then you also have to cook when you're a part of a community. You have to take on some of the cooking responsibility. I'm sure every community you're a part of is like, oh, Tucker, you can do it every day.
01:02:56
Speaker
It's been fun and I've enjoyed, and I think that's a whole other part of it though is being able to do that for community. It is funny, that is sort of the beauty of some of the different places I've gotten to live is I love adopting some of the culinary styles and living in Louisiana was a beautiful part of that as well. So yeah, I just think that's been a blast. It's another way of showing people that I love them and doing this kind of, you know, put that kind of effort forward.
01:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you, Tucker, so much for being on the podcast. It was a great joy to talk to you again. And I know this won't be our last conversation about Ignatian spirituality or being loved as you are. But thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Absolutely. Thank you so much for the invitation and the opportunity to be here.
01:03:44
Speaker
Wonderful. And hey, if you have another mass today, which I know you're probably done, but we just talked for about an hour on the transfiguration. So you might have some more, you know, material for a homily. That's true. Yeah, I think a lot more here. All right. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Tucker. Thank you.
01:04:29
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Tucker as much as I did. For me, it was an easy flowing conversation between old friends that continued long after the recording was stopped. And right after our recording, he did put a short video homily up for the transfiguration.
01:04:44
Speaker
So you should follow him on social media at treddingsj and check it out. Links are in the show notes. These conversations are bringing me such life and I can't wait to share even more of them with you. I think you'll notice that I'm trying to get a variety of perspectives and experiences on this podcast, including both Catholic and non-Catholic Ignatian and other forms of spiritual practice as well.
01:05:06
Speaker
If you think you or someone you know has a story to share in this podcast, please email me at loved as you are pod at gmail.com. And if you like this podcast, subscribe and leave a review. I'd love to have your feedback and be able to continue to move this podcast in a direction that is valuable for you. You can also follow everything related to this podcast at loved as you are pod on Instagram and at Gretchen Crowder dot com slash loved as you are podcast links to both are in the show notes. Thank you for joining me today.
01:05:36
Speaker
And until next time, remember to be who you are, because that's exactly who God wants you to be.